The Culture War #76 Man Saves Child From Gender Transition w/Chloe Cole, Harrison Tinsley, Sara Higdon
Host:
Tim Pool
Guests:
Chloe Cole @ChoooCole (X)
Harrison Tinsley @Harrisontinz (X)
Sara Higdon @SaraHigdon_ (X)
Producers:
Lisa Elizabeth @LisaElizabeth (X)
Kellen Leeson @KellenPDL (X)
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So, right now, you've got a lot of people who are angry at Joe Rogan, because the other day he said that RFK Jr.
was the only one that made sense.
Now, Joe is markedly independent, he was kind of a lefty, he's a fan of Tulsi Gabbard, but Joe Rogan talks about a lot of issues that wake people up.
Notably, he has honest conversations, as it pertains to this podcast, about gender ideology.
He's been doing it longer than basically anybody.
He talked about MMA, having a biological male boxer fighting females, and so this is a guy who deserves our respect, in my opinion, because he's honest and has a large platform, one of the largest, but he's also just being honest, and honesty opens the door for solving these problems.
But there are a lot of Trump supporters who are upset.
They can't handle that, and so they're getting really mad at Joe, and I think this is a big risk.
Because these issues are all tied together in the culture war, and will have a huge impact on whether or not Donald Trump or Kamala Harris could win.
The polls right now say Kamala could win.
I don't know if I actually believe those, but I do believe that the Democrat platform is basically mindless nothing.
That's just my opinion, you don't have to agree with me, but there's no campaign policies on Kamala Harris's website.
Well, we don't need to get into the nitty-gritty of campaign policy and all that stuff, but this issue on gender ideology plays a huge role because it's affecting our schools, it's affecting our next generation, and it's affecting the lives of many young people, especially when they realize either they made the wrong decision or the decision was made for them.
So we're gonna be talking about the transgender child issue, and I'm sure it'll rope into politics, but we got a bunch of really awesome guests to join us tonight to talk about this, and I'll show it to Harrison first.
Who are you?
What do you do?
unidentified
Harrison Tinsley, I'm a dad from California.
I fight for parents' rights and to protect children from gender ideology.
I am a detrenchner and an advocate for the rights of children to grow up with their bodies fully intact and for parents to be able to raise their children without the influence of gender ideology.
And this also was because you were affected personally.
unidentified
Yeah, I went through the process of going through a medical gender transition while I was still a child.
I started identifying as a boy at the age of 12, and at 13 was when I started with the process of medicalization.
So they blocked my puberty, they put me on weekly injections of male hormones, and at 15 years old, while I was still a sophomore in high school, I underwent a radical double mastectomy through my breasts.
And I stopped transitioning at 16 when I realized that I had trauma in my life.
I had other issues in my life that weren't really addressed during the course of this, during therapy, that were causing me to feel this way about my body.
And I also wanted to become a mother one day.
I wanted to have children.
And I knew that if I were to go further into this, I wouldn't be able to pursue that.
And I also am a writer for the post-millennial human events, more so just reporting with them now, and the digital marketing manager over at Free the People.
And I have as well gone through a transition as well.
Myself, but I use that transition to point out the harms that can cause Children even though It does work for some people and some of us are happy with our transitions it doesn't mean it's right for children to go through these procedures when the when the D transition rate or the the the desist rate is so high so the Where do we begin?
So I suppose we should just, let's start with, you know, Chloe, how did this happen?
What happened to you?
How did you end up transitioning?
unidentified
Um, I mean, I'd say that it really started with me just being like an awkward tomboyish girl who didn't really fit in socially.
And I started puberty pretty young.
I was probably about like eight or nine when my breasts started to develop.
And so I was I was very, very conscious about my body for a long time, especially as I started using the internet and social media.
And being exposed to these very sexualized, very idealized images of adult women, it just felt like I constantly had another woman to compare myself to and that I'd never be feminine or pretty enough as a girl.
I mean, given my age and my maturity at the time, it was very hard for me to process these feelings on my own and figure out just where exactly they were coming from.
I always felt like there was something that just set me apart from the other people around me, and this was something that I was very conscious of.
But I learned about the transgender community through the internet when I was about 11, 12 years old.
And I'd heard the word transgender a few times, When adults were talking about it, but I didn't really have any personal interest until like it was being presented to me like to my face through through social media apps that I was using.
And I wasn't like following like any influencers or celebrities or anything.
It was just like other kids my age who had like very similar, very similar interests like video games or like very similar upbringings and struggles growing up.
And seeing how like they all seem to To flourish.
To become happier.
To make friends and heal the relationships with their family as they went through this process was something that kind of spoke to me.
This is probably, I don't know, a year or two ago.
It's been a while.
But she's also a detransitioner.
And what she was saying, and this is really scary.
I mean, you're saying you were on the internet at 11 years old.
And you're being told things.
You're seeing this community stuff.
You also mentioned seeing sexualized pictures of women as a child on the internet.
unidentified
Yeah, and I think my first exposure to pornography actually was while I was still in elementary school through a friend of mine who brought their... It was either on their school tablet or on their phone that they brought to school.
And what they were really doing was grooming her on the internet to trick her into thinking the real path towards happiness was not social acceptance, which you can get in many different ways, but physical gender transition, which she began.
And she told us how she went, I think she said she went to Planned Parenthood.
Within a few minutes, they gave her the maximum dose of testosterone.
unidentified
Which is insane about this too, because what we're seeing with a lot of detransitioners, especially females, and actually even just trans people that are happy when they're transitioned, testosterone is starting to hurt their bodies.
The levels that they're giving them here are really starting to cause a lot of issues.
there's um amy ray who was when trans was matt ray online has had a number of medical complications from that transition simply because they when they moved here they gave them the too high of testosterone and it just really caused like seizure issues and other stuff like that so it's it's not even just uh it's and actually most trans people that i know that are female to male seem to come off of it
at some point they come off of testosterone for one reason or another because once they get the facial features they get a lot of other stuff they don't need the testosterone because they got the they got the looks that they wanted i heard that uh there's an issue with male to female with some kind of like blood thickening is that right now Is that true?
Like, I started, like, um... It caused me to have, like, urinary tract issues.
Like, UTIs or, like, UTI, like, symptoms, um, anywhere from, like, every month to, like, every other month.
And eventually I started getting, like, blood clots and, like, tissue in my urine.
Whoa!
Yeah, atrophy is a huge issue, too.
Vaginal atrophy is a very big issue that doctors aren't even telling the patients what it really is.
I mean, Buck Angel has been out here forever talking about it since he started transitioning, but they're not even talking about it, and you see it on the TikToks.
Like, oh, I have this issue, and then Buck's like, that's atrophy.
And when the doctors do talk about it, they're like, oh, you can just treat it with topical estrogen suppositories.
But it doesn't address the atrophy going on further up into the reproductive system or in other parts of the pelvis.
Yeah.
Did they warn you, though, in any way before you started to do that about these possible side effects?
Or was it all just like, look at all these positives and that's all it's going to be?
I mean, sure, some of it was briefly discussed and it was written on a piece of paper, but it wasn't really touched upon in great detail.
And it didn't matter anyways, because I was 13 when they started me on this.
A kid that age is not going to be able to understand just what they're consenting to.
Wow.
No matter how much a doctor or any adult tries to explain to them.
And now they're starting to do it to 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 year olds, which is even a whole other level of insane.
So, I've told this story before, because I was hanging out with some family friends, and they had two young kids, a boy and a girl, and this didn't come up.
There's no conversation where we're like, gender?
No, but they were talking, and they said, you know, just abruptly, like, you know, we did realize the differences between boys and girls is fairly obvious once we had kids, because for some reason, the little boy just started smashing things.
We don't know why.
He just, one day, started hitting things and smashing them, and then our daughter would run and grab them and try to protect them.
We never taught him to do that!
And I thought that was absolutely funny, like, just, a little boy just wants to smash it.
Not a good thing, not a bad thing is playing with toys, but then the girl is trying to protect, so he's like hitting the stuffed bunny and she's like, no, and then she grabs it.
And so it's weird that, like, there's this idea that if you don't fall into those behavior sets, prep the surgery.
That's the joke, the hyperbolic joke.
But I suppose what they actually begin is the, you know, first you're non-binary, and so that's what you experienced, Harrison.
Do you want to tell your story?
unidentified
Yeah, do you want me to start way back at the beginning?
Did you like vocally object to what she was doing?
unidentified
Um, to that, yeah.
She would ask me, like, what would you do if, like, our kid was transgender?
And I would be like, well, I wouldn't let them live a lie.
If they're 18 years old, maybe they could do what they want, but I'm not gonna just, like, accept my kid as a false identity and confirm a delusion, essentially.
Yeah.
Oh, wow.
That's pretty strong.
And she'd get very upset with that.
Um, yeah, she has wonderful qualities.
She also has some pretty serious mental health issues, unfortunately.
But, um, so she would, you know, break down on me pretty wildly, but Yeah, I started getting threatened quite often, if not daily, to not see him and then it ended up she broke up with me.
She sent me a cease and desist letter and I didn't know when he was born.
I found out about one week later from social media.
Someone reached out to me and you know that was heartbreaking of course and I decided that I had to fight for him.
That I had a duty to fight for him so I filed in court two months later.
A lot of paperwork for custody visitation parentage.
He was born in December, I filed in February.
And then it took 13 more months just to meet him.
So I didn't, not until he was 15 months old did I hold him, look in his eyes in spite of being excited about him since pregnancy.
Which was just devastating.
And um...
As far as I could tell, she actually had treated him as a boy, though, that entire time, believe it or not, from what my sisters and stuff showed me from social media.
And so I started visitation with him, and, you know, there was every line in the book thrown at me for her to delay all this and to paint me out to be bad, like Brett Kavanaugh, Johnny Depp kind of stuff.
And I had to fight all that off.
I was extremely thankful I had ex-girlfriends of mine.
It's extremely common in family court, false accusations.
And there's pretty much no repercussions for them, unfortunately.
So yeah, it's just falsely accused of just heinous things that are just patently false, sometimes even the opposite of the truth.
And Basically I started my visits it was made as difficult as possible you know the first ones were like supervised not professionally but just because you know he hadn't spent any time with me yet and there was just a series like you know you have someone watching you taking notes and they're literally trying everything they can like I found a hidden camera once I don't know for a fact that it was recording, but it seemed weird.
Sawyer actually picked it up and showed it to me.
There was one time where my sister caught her dad in the bushes watching us.
Did something happen with, like, the Large Hadron Collider that turned half of the planet into psychopaths?
Because, like, it's crazy to think that this woman doesn't recognize gender and has this strange ideology, but her family does too, to the extent where a guy would hide in the bushes to spy on you.
What happened?
Is something in the water?
Is it the phthalates and the endocrine disruptors making people go nuts?
Were the lies that she levied against you used in your favor to prove you should have custody?
unidentified
We tried to bring that up.
I don't think that was the main factor.
What happens is, so I went half-custody.
She starts to defame and harass me even more now, and like online and publicly.
So it's bad enough that, and the court believes it to be untrue, which it is, that I get a temporary restraining order, which she violates that temporary restraining order.
Wow.
She started doing the non-binary thing right around that time, at least to the best of my knowledge, and I believe even identifying that way herself.
And so there was that.
There was a violation of the restraining order.
There's a bunch of little broken court orders that court doesn't usually care about.
Little things like lying.
They don't make a big deal.
But then there was an arrest and a CPS report.
She was arrested for child endangerment with Sawyer there.
Crazy night.
Presented it to court.
They actually denied it originally.
Then I got the body cam footage.
Found out everything that was said by every witness, etc.
So she got in a verbal argument with the roommate over asking the roommate to watch Sawyer for five minutes while she took this phone call or something and then the roommate was trying to move out and allegedly she wouldn't let her move out and threatened to burn the house down and hurt the roommate, hurt the kid, all these things.
The roommate's brother came to help her move out.
There was just a bunch of wild stuff.
He fell off of a bed and it was a bed just held up by three chairs.
That this roommate had been sleeping on, I guess.
It wasn't on a frame.
And he's only, she's 20 months old at the time, so pretty young.
And it's on video, even him falling off and hitting his head.
But there's way more accusations, and the ones that happen in the future are also way gnarlier.
There's accusations of her throwing him onto the bed and just all sorts of different weird things.
Kind of using him as like a battering ram, like not necessarily like hitting with him, but like not letting the roommate get by because the roommate's not going to push by a child.
Right.
And I don't know what's true or not and I wasn't there, but just a really scary night and alcohol was involved, etc.
And like when she tells the cops about it, she said like, oh, he's a gymnast.
Thankfully, he got evaluated and everything, and so he gets arrested, child endangerment, felonies, child endangerment, placed on a 5150 hold that night, and in fact, she said so much bad stuff to me, about me, to the cops even, that they didn't even call me that night to pick him up, so her parents got custody of him instead of me, who literally has half custody, the only person who has a legal right to him.
Um, but so we bring that to trial.
I get granted a four day trial, which is like a lot of time in court.
Usually just get your 30 minutes.
They don't, that's all you get.
And it ended up being five days.
It was five afternoons.
I presented all this evidence.
There's more little things, like I said, two broken court orders.
And I just felt so confident about it.
I mean, her attorney objected to every single thing I or any witness said, just like to waste time.
Just objection, objection, like wouldn't even know her objection.
It was pretty wild to see, and that's why we're part of the reason we're appealing it.
It's a separate thing, and we still want to win this appeal just on principle, and it would change also a couple things, but I think it would also set case law for other people.
I've just done everything I can, and I just decide, like, I need to tell the world.
I can't be the only one dealing with this and I essentially come out daily wire and Matt Walsh broke my story.
Super thankful to them.
And then from there I just did every interview I could and I started meeting incredible people like all of you and Chloe and just all this like became a part of this movement sort of fighting for children and parents rights and I think it's the battle of our lifetime but it's just crazy how you start being courageous and speaking the truth how much your life opens up in ways you could never imagine.
I think I met the love of my life because of all this.
I have this purpose.
I'm going to the California Capitol and speaking against bills, just like Chloe.
And yeah, so the appeal is ongoing.
We have some legit reasons we think that we could win on appeal.
An example is the violation of the restraining order would normally be grounds for an automatic full restraining order because it was temporary, but they didn't give me that.
um you know not being able to cross-examine witness things like that but um we have that appeal going on we're hoping to win it just to set some case law in california but yeah one day i'm just sitting there and i have missed calls and it's the police in san francisco and
Essentially they tell me to pick my son up and I'm thankful they called me this time and I pick him up and his mom was arrested again for another violent incident and it was very serious sounding and the evidence made it just horrifying to see.
Something like she had a physical altercation with one of her dads.
It was very serious.
She allegedly broke his nose.
They were both bleeding.
Sawyer had to witness this.
So this is what it takes, also, just as an example in family court for, I would say, a dad to win custody.
Blood.
Sawyer sneaks up.
He's hiding at first, thankfully, but he snuck up to, you know, to defend his mom or to see whatever is going on.
And he has, like, his kid's baseball bat.
It's a plastic baseball bat.
And according to Sawyer, his mom says hit him in the face, hit him in the face.
According to her, he did it on his own in her defense.
Either way, I think it's been normal to tell the four year old to run away or something like that.
And then, you know, it is honorable that he was fighting for his mom.
Like, I respect that.
But at four years old, at four years old.
So, you know, and he did that.
And, you know, part of the police evidence even is a bloody kid's baseball bat or something very similar to that.
So it's just horrifying that that's what had to happen.
I filed an ex parte either the very next day or the day after that with my attorney because of this and the court actually denied my ex parte pending hearing which was like mind-blowing to me and my attorney.
They have to take that seriously.
If they wanted to punish me later for lying they could but They denied it, but thankfully, CPS, San Francisco, California, this is all San Francisco court.
I live a little south of there, but more like Santa Cruz.
But basically, CPS said, that's okay.
We're going to protect the child.
You know, and CPS really stepped up in spite of, you know, every accusation against me from the mom and calling me, you know, right wing and all these crazy ideas.
CPS put it aside and just did their job and protected the child.
It's kind of wild to hear that because of the assumption about how the government in the Bay Area works, very lefty, to hear that the judge and CPS, do you think that, you know, when you were working with these individuals or speaking with people at CPS, did you think they were being reasonable and honest?
unidentified
Well, so for example, the first time that we talked about the child endangerment, there was a CPS investigation as well, and they decided to do nothing, and I thought it was very unreasonable.
Wow.
But I feel like it was divine, almost, that I got the CPS workers that I did this time, because they really took it seriously, and they did not care about politics, they just cared about the safety of the child.
They did a very, very thorough investigation.
And at the end of it, you know, I had told them everything.
Like I didn't talk to them with attorney present.
You know, the mom would only talk to them with attorney as an example.
But I just I showed him the court evidence.
I talked to him openly, told him everything, and even the gender stuff and how I was uncomfortable with it.
And really, yeah, the The fear is usually that when you say something like, I'm uncomfortable about this, they immediately say, okay, we're siding with the gender ideology.
unidentified
Yeah, of course.
Yeah, but I just felt like this CPS worker, especially the second one, there's like one that opens the case and then one that kind of does it.
The whole investigation so the second one it was actually a guy and he just seemed extremely fair and I just felt like I was I decided I was gonna be completely open with him so tell him everything show him core evidence all of that so that's what I did and you know it worked out I he said you know he I won't get into, like, his opinion of it.
I'll just say he said, like, I don't think that's gonna, you know, help your case in court.
So it was more focused on, like, mental health problems, substance abuse, and violence in front of the child.
And it was, like, three or four month investigation where I temporarily had full custody from CPS, and they have their own court.
It's called Dependency Court.
It's a step above Family Court, and it supersedes anything Family Court does.
And it was coming up to trial.
This is only like a month ago.
And we actually all settled it before trial.
So there's CPS, their attorney, me, my attorney, Sawyer, his attorney, and then mom and her attorney.
And we all came to an agreement.
CPS's recommendation was full physical legal custody to me.
With a bunch of safety precautions and essentially we all agreed to a safe visitation schedule, full physical custody to me, split legal custody but I have the decision-making ability if there's no agreement and yeah so I'm just so so thankful to CPS.
They really put politics aside and did their job in San Francisco so not everyone is... Yeah.
Well, I'm not assuming your four-year-old's on the internet, you know, like, on the phone, but just the things going on around him, his parents fighting, you know, he's witnessing this stuff, I'd imagine, to a certain degree.
unidentified
Yeah, well, I'm always very careful.
I say nothing bad about his mom.
I don't think that favor is returned, but I just do my best to just be positive, you know, because that makes him happy and there's no reason to hurt him.
And I mean, I'm sure he's noticed.
I'm sure he thinks it's weird that he's no longer seen his mom except in certain situations way less often.
Has he asked?
Um, not really.
I mean, he seems to just be thriving in this, like, stable environment he's had for the last four months or so, and just really excelling, not having a lot of temper tantrums, just sort of doing amazing with a good routine and stable environment, not so much back and forth, and who knows what.
Is there someone else now in his life that fills that motherly role?
unidentified
I have a wife now that I met because of all this, and she's incredible, and I'd like to think she's doing that, as well as my mom, you know, plays a big part.
She really loves Sora too, and so yeah, and then he visits his mom in a safe way.
So I think that he's gonna have a wonderful life, and I'm thankful.
Well, I don't know what she does during her time with him.
unidentified
Obviously I talk to him, he mainly tells me.
I would assume she would try to at least a little bit.
Because even during the supervised CPS visits that were professionally supervised, ordered, had everything was written down in notes, there was a time even where I'd pick him up from the supervised visit.
And they were making me drive him to San Francisco, wait three hours, and drive back, and it's an hour there, an hour back, twice a week.
And I went to pick him up, and the lady that brought him out, because I have a criminal protective order now, the family court never gave me the restraining order, but the criminal court in my county, Santa Clara, took it seriously, the violation of the temporary restraining order, and gave me a criminal protective order, which I'm thankful for, and it's actually stronger than a family court one, but so, like, she doesn't bring him out to me in that case, so...
The lady brought him out to me and was like, Oh, I just wanted to tell you too, like there's some glitter on him.
It's just from his mom.
And I was like, okay.
And I thought nothing of it, but then I received the notes.
Cause me and the CPS worker receive all the notes and my attorney later on.
And it was because she was putting it on him.
Um, yeah.
Yeah.
So they, at least the visitation people were open to it and that was definitely scary.
I brought it up, of course, to my CPS worker and to the boss at that place and how that's not really okay.
And they were nice, but they didn't do anything about it as far as I could tell.
Well, this is the scary thing because that's true.
Kids, this is what human beings do.
At a young age, kids are trying to learn to be adults.
And you've got people who are so heavily influenced by this internet culture, this ideology, the kids are just trying to do what the parents tell them they're supposed to be doing.
And so there are a lot of kids, you know, in this instance, where the parents are like, hey, you want this, don't you?
And the kid's like, sure!
Because, you know, this is what my parents are telling me I should be doing.
And then you might end up with very scary scenarios.
I think the Jazz Jennings scenario, to me, is particularly scary.
Because anyone who's actually followed the news around jazz can see the severe depression, the morbid obesity.
You know, jazz started their transition at seven years old, I think it was, doing this TV show, and then undergoing puberty blockers and multiple surgeries that were botched and had complications.
And I think the thing that worries me the most about the Jazz Jennings story is that, for some reason, the fans of the show just don't even think about Jazz coming out later saying that they are pansexual, which says to me one of two things.
By not undergoing puberty, Jazz has not developed the capability of attraction enough to understand what it is to have an attraction between male, male, male, female, female, female, whatever it is you might be.
When humans go through puberty and start developing the ability to have attraction, You know, people know what that feels like.
For some people it can feel so intense, when it's not reciprocated, you get very depressed.
It's a very powerful feeling.
I'm wondering if Jazz is saying that they're pansexual because Jazz actually can't discern between the normal feeling, like, having never experienced attraction at all, everyone, it all feels the same no matter what.
unidentified
Right.
Well, there's an interesting point I want to bring up, too.
I don't want to not give Sawyer this credit.
He's never bought into this, at least with me, and it seems very honest.
So he's always adamantly said he's a boy this entire time.
And if you say anything else, I'll scream at you.
His mother even sent me messages on the court app acknowledging that they've gotten fights, trying to blame me.
You know, be like, Sawyer's saying I'm a girl and he's a boy and blah, blah, blah.
It's all your fault.
He bit me and all this stuff like that.
Yeah, so he, and if you call him girly in any way, he gets upset.
He's totally never bought into it.
I'm so thankful he has that rebellious spirit like me, and it's just, I'm thankful I was able to guide him with truth and love.
And there's been coercion too, because you said that, like parents.
So as an example, he told me this story, and there's actually multiple stories similar, but the main one that people seem interested in is he went to Disneyland with his mom.
And she had told me she was taking him to Disneyland, and he told me about it after.
And he was like, yeah, Dada, when I was at Disneyland, I couldn't go on the rides unless I wore my princess shoes.
And I didn't want to wear princess shoes.
I wanted to wear boy shoes.
Wow.
And it's like to not let a kid go on rides at Disneyland.
Unless they wear the shoes you want them to wear, seems just unimaginable.
Is this like Munchausen syndrome by proxy or something?
unidentified
Well, I won't make like a clinician claim, but I would say that if it's not, it should probably at least be considered to consider that it could be.
Yeah.
There is that a lot.
We do see, so I always kind of, we can look at the different types of parents.
You have like Chloe's parents who are manipulated into going into this.
And then we do call this transhausen by proxy for that same reason, because it's moms and This is actually why the Southern Poverty Law Center knows my name is because I make this claim is that traditionally the affluent white female liberal, they've been told so much through critical theory that they are an oppressor and there's no way to escape that oppressor status, right?
And so now they see their child and they go, I can make my child trans and then show my friends how good of a parent I am and now we are in an oppressed status and now Being in an oppressed status is, it's celebrated in our society now.
If this kind of thing is pervasive on the left, this is why I was saying in the intro to the show, the connection in the political space, I don't think the Democrats actually have a care for this at all.
It's just, is it popular online?
Okay, we get votes.
On the right, there's a moral outrage.
When you look at things like in Florida, they call it the Don't Say Gay.
I call it the Don't Say Straight Bill.
You guys familiar with Don't Say Straight?
So there was this bill in Florida that said you are not allowed to talk about adult things with kids in third grade or younger.
And Democrats said the bill was called Don't Say Gay, despite the fact the bill would bar a teacher from talking about heterosexual parents all the same.
So I call it Don't Say Straight, because if that's the game they want to play, it's the exact same thing.
But the issue at hand was, hey, you shouldn't be going in private to third graders and talking to them about their gender and sexuality and reproduction and things like that.
Sex ed is, you know, when I was in grade school, fifth grade, permission slipped to the parents first.
The parents would decide if this was appropriate.
We had a couple kids in our class.
Their parents said, we're going to take care of this on our own and we don't want the school to do it because we don't know if they're going to be teaching the kid.
And no one cared.
Nobody cared.
Now you've got this weird phenomenon where teachers are like trying to intentionally get children in private away from their parents and in blue states they're passing laws where the school cannot inform the parents if the kid is saying something.
unidentified
California is one of them.
They're going full force with this.
Yeah, I helped write the bill in Louisiana, which was also deemed a don't-say-gay bill, and all it actually did was force the schools to get written permission before they used a name, a different name and pronoun for the child.
That's all it really did.
And then it was also, I believe it also made it an opt-in system, so if you wanted your kids to learn gender identity from the school, you actually had to sign in and a permission slip as well for that.
But that was also deemed don't-say-gay and was vetoed by the governor as well.
Well, I tell you, this is why I think, and this is what the Republicans and the Conservatives do, they always take the neutral approach and then get accused of taking the far-right approach.
So the example I like to give is, man, this gender ideology stuff goes way back.
When I was on Joe Rogan's show with the Twitter executives, They had a misgendering policy.
If somebody has a preferred pronoun and you use the wrong one, they will ban you.
They will give you a strike.
They will suspend your account.
I'm like, well, that's bias.
To a conservative, to misgender would be to call them by a pronoun or a gender that they are not biologically.
To the liberal progressive, it's if you're calling them by a pronoun they don't choose to be called by.
So those are the two world views right now.
The conservatives didn't ask for that.
The conservatives asked for, let people say what they want to say.
If they're left and want to be called she, her, he, him, that's fine, but let conservatives say what they want to say too.
And Twitter said, no, that's far right.
And the media says, that's far right.
And so when you're saying it should be an opt-in system, I'm wondering if maybe you just need to go big ask, right?
That's the Trump Art of the deal.
Ask for ten times more than you want, and then settle for what you actually wanted.
So the bill should actually be saying, it is banned outright to discuss gender ideology.
And then, when they go, oh heavens, heavens, you say, okay fine, how about we settle with opt-in.
Parents can choose if they're kids to do it, but they can't put it on the kid unless the parents agree first.
unidentified
Yeah, when I was working on that bill, I actually, it was interesting because I did actually just tell the representative, I said, you know, honestly, I would rather you just have a school choice bill.
And if you want to send your kids to a woke school, then do it.
If you don't, then you can send them to a conservative school.
But I'd rather that.
But if we're going to work on this bill, let's make sure it's right.
It's it's this is what's it's unfortunate because that's the honest approach.
It's the rational approach.
It's the compromising approach.
But the right just keeps compromising.
unidentified
I'll be honest with you, Tim.
I'm in California, in the Bay Area, and so is Chloe, and I just know countless Democrats and people.
I haven't even met someone, you know, other than my son's mom, I guess, but literally everyone is against this.
Nobody wants kids transitioning, you know, whether it's surgery or hormones, under 18 at all.
No one wants secrets from parents.
No one wants guys and girls sports.
Everyone's against it.
Even the Democrats.
I mean, I'll be there at the Capitol, and you'll watch Democrat after Democrat.
I'm a lifelong, you know, lesbian Democrat in San Francisco, and I oppose this bill, and it's just crazy.
And I've tried using their logic against them, like you're saying.
There was a bill last year that I testified for, AB 957, and it was to demand family courts basically give custody to the affirming parent of a kid's gender identity or expression.
And I kept telling them, like, okay, I'm gonna be the first person to win custody from it then because Sawyer says he's a boy.
So his mom's the non-affirming one. - Oh, right. - And interestingly, that's actually kind of what Newsom said for videoing it.
He was worried that conservatives would use it the other way around.
Wow!
Think about this too, because you're absolutely right, and the polls show it.
The Harvard-Harris poll did, I think they've only done it one time that I could find, but they did poll this.
They said, do you think that children should be able to transition under the age of 18?
Even 68% of Democrats said no.
So it's not a popular thing.
It's only popular, like you said, online, and politicians are just looking at what's going on online.
But also, you talk about Newsom vetoing that bill.
Think about this too, and this is actually what's on the next election, is that Tim Walz signed in a bill that forces them to take custody issue, take issue in custody issues, take in if the parents is affirming of gender as well.
So Tim Walsh is actually more radical than Gavin Newsom.
The scary thing, I think, out of all of this is, you know, you guys mentioned Democrats don't even want this.
But there are several states where I believe it.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
You guys fact check me in the audience.
But I think in Washington, this was the big deal, that if a third party took a child from a different state and brought them to Washington for a sex change, you could not prosecute the person who did that.
So that means a groomer online, like an actual child predator, can go to a chat room, talk to a kid in Oklahoma, say, get on that bus and I'll meet you in Arizona, bring them to California, and the state will not prosecute that individual.
And then they were still not letting her back with her parents because they were not gender affirming.
And this is in Virginia with a Republican governor.
And she was found as far south as Texas, right, before she was returned home?
So she was found, I think, in Northern Virginia the first time and I think the boys home was in Texas that they put her in it was something weird like that I do remember Texas being part of that because that was what two years ago.
He claimed that gender was a learned behavior, and that kids only adopt these things because they're told to act a certain way.
So he took, there were two twins, and one had a botched circumcision, so he told the parents to raise the one with the botched circumcision as a girl, and give him hormones, and then did unspeakable things to these children, forcing them to simulate acts on each other and things like that.
Both of them committed suicide.
And they forced his transition on this male, and upon discovering that this transition was forced, he immediately stopped the hormones, reverted back to a male identity, and this is a... I mean, it's horrifying that we've seen the data.
This stuff doesn't work.
You can't do this to people.
My concern is, when you look at that story, and conservatives know the story, are we gonna see These kids who are told by their parents to undergo either castration, some kind of sterilization, hormonal treatments, are they going to become suicidal later in life because of what happened to them?
unidentified
I mean, I've connected with a lot of other transgenders, many of whom have transitioned as children like I have.
It's very, it's very similar to the outcomes that they have.
Many of them end up suicidal because they've lost parts of their sex organs.
They've lost their reproductive systems.
They're not capable of normal sexual function.
And they're never going to have a normal romantic or sexual relationship in their life.
They'll never know what that's like.
Yeah.
And they're just realizing that as they're going to their adulthoods.
I think it was Helena Kirshner saying that Planned Parenthood was the ones who gave her the hormones, and now we're hearing that Planned Parenthood is one of the largest providers.
I don't know if that's true, but that they are doing a lot of this gender transition stuff.
Why?
unidentified
I saw yesterday a lawsuit against them from a transitioner that got one 30-minute session and then got maximum hormones, if I recall correctly, after one 30-minute session.
I mean, Elon Musk has done such tremendously awesome stuff, so I'll just give him a shout-out in that regard.
I don't think people realize how big buying X really was going to be.
It's like one thing to get your account back to talk online, but then winning that lawsuit against the advertisers trying to do these boycotts on all these different platforms and then they disband because of it.
And also he's going to send people to Mars, that's also really awesome.
But you know what I think happened with Elon?
Elon had a son, Xavier, who he says he was tricked into giving hormones when Xavier was a minor.
And it's this lie they use.
They say you can have a dead son or a living daughter.
unidentified
That's the exact lie that they fed my mom and dad.
Wow.
That's the lie that these doctors and these psychologists and physicians use to rope these parents into this.
To feel like they're backed into a corner, like they don't have any other choice.
Because they're threatened with the life of their child.
It's one of the biggest fears that a parent could ever have.
And we know now that it's the opposite of the truth.
It's Orwellian.
CAS files, WPATH files, we see that literally the data shows that it's actually the suicide rate goes up if they were to transition.
I wasn't suicidal until I started medically transitioning.
They lied to my mom and dad.
Wow.
They never talked to him.
They didn't allow my mom and dad into the room while I was having these therapy and psychology appointments, actually.
So my mom and dad didn't really, they had no idea what was actually going on in my head or what was being discussed with these doctors.
It's kind of worrying where this all leads to, again, because I was saying, like you mentioned, you weren't suicidal until you started the transition, and that makes me worried about what they're doing to people and what that will lead to.
Because there was a, I think it was a Reddit forum that got banned.
It was a Reddit forum dedicated to people who were talking about their transition experiences, how they were negative.
It ended up getting shut down, so they started a website, the website got shut down.
But these stories were really terrifying.
One story that I read was, it was a man, a male, who was I think somewhere between like 18 and 20 years old, sitting on the gurney in the hospital about to undergo Sex reassignment surgery, removal of the gonad and the penis and all that stuff.
And he wrote how he didn't feel like it was right.
He was scared and started vocalizing, saying this to his family who was with him.
I don't think I should do this.
Maybe I should stop.
And they kept saying, you're so brave.
You're so brave.
You should do this.
And the doctors were like, no, no, this is normal.
People get jitters all the time.
This is what you need to do.
Remember how bad it was.
And this is what is going to solve your problem.
And then upon receiving the surgery, he was saying he's bedridden, can't walk, has infections constantly, struggles to move because the pain is so great.
wrote that having a a surgical draft you know in your pelvic area is not something that can heal properly that allow you to to function without pain and was basically saying the smell is horrible i can't live this way anymore and a lot of these posts on the site were people who are very much talking about committing self-harm so i brought this up with we've had lefties uh... you know pro-gender ideology people on the show
And I've asked them, desistance rates, according to the science that we have now, it's greater than 50%.
Let's just settle on that.
Some say 60, I think the issue is like 65 to like 90% or something around the numbers.
Different studies have given different results, but typically when a child goes through puberty, they desist.
That doesn't mean detransition, it means they're experiencing gender dysphoria, they go through puberty, everything's fine, they're normal, and they live their lives normally.
If we know for a fact that people who are trans have a higher rate of depression and suicidality or suicidal ideation, and we know for a fact there's a greater-than-chance percentage of individuals who desist, that would mean that transitioning kids increases the rate of suicidal ideation and suicidality.
In which case, the appropriate response based on the science is, puberty, do nothing.
But there's no answer.
They just come out and deny the science at this point and they say, oh, the desistence studies are faulty.
unidentified
Yeah, they always go after the cast review right now, that's the big thing, right?
All the leftist trans activists are going after the cast review.
But you're right, and it's interesting, you know, you brought up Jazz Jennings earlier, too, and knowing that most, a lot of people that start a puberty blocker before puberty and went on to fully transition are asexual, so they don't have any sex drive because they never learned it, like you said, or their body never produced the hormones to have that.
I think there's a lot to do with this, too, and we can talk about the other comorbidities, like the high autism rate and other comorbidities, other mental health issues that come with this, and I start to think that there is something going on when it comes to the World Economic Forum and, you know, kind of go down that conspiracy rabbit hole to think, what are they doing?
Is this part of the plan to sterilize These people that they see as, you know, undesirable.
They want to, under the guise of being, you know, compassionate.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I think it's reasonable to question something like that.
But it really doesn't make sense and and then the cure so so you transition people you transition children they end up having even more mental health issues and then and then what then then Big Pharma now again can step in and throw SSRIs at these children and now we see even just a ton of SSRIs being used on kids more than we've ever seen so why are children just in general so much more like mentally unstable than we were.
It's actually precisely what happened to me.
So they started me on the puberty blockers, the testosterone at 13.
And then I think like, into like going into my early sophomore year, I was just incredibly depressed.
Like I was becoming suicidal.
I was like, like my friends were concerned about me and they actually reported me to the guidance counselor at school and they reported home.
And I started seeing a therapist again after years of like a therapist not following up with me during my transition.
And they just threw antidepressants and stimulants at me to, it was an off-label antidepressant actually.
It was bupropion, which actually has, like, a huge black box label warning for use in children under the age of 18, because it can actually increase feelings of suicidality, which is exactly what I was being prescribed it for.
It made me worse.
It was terrible to be on and to come off of.
They put me on stimulants to address my low grades from the depression and they never really questioned whether any of this might have to do with the lifestyle that I was living.
And of course the supplemental topical estrogen to treat the atrophy.
I think the reason why we see a lot of this stuff is that kids are easy targets for pharmaceuticals.
So if you're trying to sell a product, you've got some big pharmaceutical, you want the insurance companies to pay for it, you want to mass pump it out, it's easy to bring in a kid to a room, separate from the parents, and say, we're doing this, the kid wants it, and the parents have no say.
I think I was about like, I think I was 10 when they first put me on ADHD medication.
Wow.
Terrible.
I hate being on it.
I think it's important, though, to mention that we talk about what's the endgame, what's the solution, and I talk quite a bit about how, I mean, all of us in here are kind of, we work on legislation, we work with legislators across the country speaking on bills and everything like that.
That's all well and good, but you're not going to be able to pass it in states like California, like where y'all live.
Not yet.
But, my point is that I think both of your lawsuits are so important for different reasons, right?
I think Chloe, your lawsuit, along with Prisha's and Luca's and all the other detransition lawsuits are so important because what that does is it de-incentivizes doctors from wanting to be able to perform this.
If it's going to hit them in their pocketbook, they're not going to want to do it.
And we've actually seen this.
We've seen it with We've seen it with insurance companies.
Even in states where it is legal to perform these procedures, malpractice insurance companies are going, you know what?
We're not going to cover you if you perform this stuff, even in those states.
So that's what your lawsuits are doing.
That's why I think that's what's going to win the war.
And then your lawsuit as well is showing that parents You know, well one, men have rights when it comes to custody battles.
I think that's a huge thing, especially in California.
Like, when I told your story to somebody, they said, they were like, you could have just stopped at, dad wins full custody in California and it would have been a, it would have been a feat, right?
But I also think that it's raising the issues and it's showing that, you know, you can't hide behind the courts.
If you won in California, what do you think about all the other parents that have these, you know, trans housing moms that are trying to transition their children as well?
I think that is going to ripple, especially across the country.
We have to hold these parents and doctors accountable.
Something has to happen.
We have to win the culture.
That's the way we're going to get rid of this.
And we are winning.
We have the momentum.
We have the high ground.
We just need to keep pushing forward.
This stuff is going to be gone within the next 10 years.
You see all the other countries starting to ban it, and us in Canada moving forward for no reason.
We're going to win this.
And I think that people need to really dig deep inside themselves and start thinking about what they're going to tell their kids and their grandkids about them standing up for truth in this battle.
The craziest thing to me, though, is the, uh... Where was all of this 50 years ago?
Where was all of this 100 years ago?
Two hundred years ago, where are the history books talking about the child at the church screaming that he was a boy or that he was a girl and that she was a boy or whatever?
These things only recently began to exist as the internet begins to emerge.
And, you know, I think Bill Maher brought this up, much that I will criticize him for his lack of knowledge on so many other topics.
He said, when you look at California and you have these really high rates, and you look at Ohio and you don't, It's likely something we're doing.
It's, you know, not a natural phenomenon.
It's not something that exists.
It's clearly California kids versus Ohio kids are being raised differently.
There's different social orders.
I think the terrifying thing is kids should not be on the internet.
And there are, when we're talking about this stuff, you know, Chloe, you're mentioning, you know, you're like 11, you're going online, you're seeing this.
Eleanor Kershaw said very much the same thing.
A lot of parents are seeing this stuff too.
And I'll mention that the Jazz Jennings Show is really horrifying.
Any sane, rational person who watches that, like, the mother talks about... I could only describe this as rape.
The mother describes raping Jazz, or threatening to rape Jazz.
unidentified
So you have a clip... Forcing him to dilate, right?
She publicly admitted to threaten to jam a phallic object into the body of another person under the guise of its medical treatment.
And wring their neck.
Threat like...
What is the joke here?
Could you imagine if a man said, I have woken my wife up from a dead sleep and said stick it in or I'll strike, like that's insane!
But it's a medical treatment.
That's crazy that we're here.
You know I was watching TV like the other day and there was some commercial on for some drug that I can't remember what it was because I don't really pay attention to these drug commercials but it was like There's a common drug that people are taking for a specific thing that causes a side effect.
So now they're marketing another drug to cover up the side effect of the other drug.
It said that... I can't remember what it was.
I probably should pay more attention.
It was like, are you suffering side effects from taking whatever?
Then maybe whatever is right for you.
And one of the side effects was thoughts of extreme violence and harm against others or something like that.
I'm like, there are drugs that make you want to hurt other people, so they need to give you other drugs to make you not want to do that?
You know, I'm off seed oils.
That's it.
They're all right.
RFK Jr.' 's right about the phthalates and the chemicals and whatever it is.
I think people just got to go back to Eating less processed garbage and having better diets and all of that stuff.
Because this stuff's freaking me out now.
But I will stress this, too.
During the primary for the GOP, this is what really got the Ron DeSantis people angry at me.
I said, this stuff's happening in Florida.
Where's the police?
Where's Ron DeSantis?
They don't care.
They're too terrified to go up against something on TV that is prominent like this.
Is this really the compromise we're willing to make?
A couple of state troopers show up, knock on the door, and say, we'd like to speak with Jazz privately if that's okay.
Just, there's no one's in trouble.
We just, you know, have some concerns.
And then, and then, talk it through.
And maybe that's all you need.
But I do kind of feel like this video right here is, uh, a crime?
You know, let's put it this way.
Jazz's mother saying, I've woken up Jazz from a dead sleep and said, you take this.
If not, I will put it in you.
It's a medical procedure.
What if there was an individual who was diabetic?
Would you be allowed to threaten to wring their neck unless they let you inject them against their will?
I still don't think that's the case.
Even if someone is prescribed insulin and they need it, I don't think another person can threaten to wring your neck in the middle of the night unless you let them inject you with medication.
It's still your choice as an adult.
The argument they made As to why they shouldn't, you know, everyone's like, no, they can't do that because Jez is an adult.
And I'm like, that's actually more reason that it's criminal.
When you have a child who has a medical treatment, it's actually the parent's responsibility to make sure the child's treatment is being followed.
If we're talking about a grown adult who's refusing to engage in a certain practice, and you're threatening violence against them, this is serious domestic abuse.
I wonder if this is just, you guys are familiar with the Malthusian ideology?
This is a book called The Population Bomb, where I think it was in the 70s, this guy writes that there's too many people, they're going to keep multiplying exponentially, and then the planet will implode and everyone dies.
And so a lot of people in the 70s, you know, attach themselves to this ideology of overpopulation.
Overpopulation becomes a very popular and common idea among many politicians, particularly among Democrats, especially with how they talk about climate change.
And while I certainly do agree there's an upper limit to how many humans can exist on a planet, I think a lot of what we're seeing is just about making sure people can't have kids.
That's why I'm not surprised Planned Parenthood is now an organization that's giving these treatments to kids and that they want to expand abortion to the point of birth and things like this.
I think the end result is just less people.
unidentified
Yeah, I mean, that's why I touched on earlier.
I think there is that at play because you look at the people that they are manipulating the most into transitioning are high rates of autism and other mental health issues.
No, and actually when I was talking about the bills earlier, when I was talking about the bills in Louisiana and Georgia that I've helped work on, Chase has been vocally against those, so I would have no reason to support him, even though we do know each other personally because he lives not far from me.
But yeah, I mean, I'm not somebody who usually would go out and say who I'm voting for until Election Day, but I think at this point, I think after the assassination attempt, I'm voting Trump.
Well, I mean, in this regard, it's just like, Look man, this election has a lot at stake and war is a big issue for me.
Obviously the subject of this show is we're talking about gender ideology.
What we describe as wokeness Which I don't even think the right has like a unified definition of and they don't really know how to explain it.
I explain it as simply the social orthodoxy of the left political tribe in the United States.
Woke refers to that on the surface.
I'd further describe it if you want to get more into the nitty-gritty.
It represents a combination of ideas based on what is simply popular Algorithmically.
There's not a whole lot more to it.
Some people might say, it's neo-Marxist, and I'm like, no, the neo-Marxism emerges out of what is socially acceptable due to advertisers, and the left has adopted these things because it generated views for their websites, so they've attached themselves to contradictory ideas that don't seem to make a lot of sense, and they often can't defend, because there actually is no real ideology behind it.
It is simply an amalgam of anti-oppression, so there's a little bit neo-Marxist in there, ideas, But the reason why I don't agree with that necessarily is because they're pro-Ukraine war.
You know, for whatever reason, people who are quote-unquote woke and believe in gender ideology also want to go blow up Russians in Ukraine for some reason, which just doesn't align.
There's like nothing there.
So, you know, obviously what's going on with the gender stuff is a huge component of this.
I just wonder if this is going to be a major driving force in the election, or if it's just I don't know.
I don't know.
As people are calling Tim Waltz tampon Tim.
I don't know that, uh, if you go to a regular person and say, like, Loudoun County, Virginia, living in the suburbs or whatever, and you walk up to them and say, what do you think about transgender?
They're gonna be like, huh?
Like, I don't know if you guys think that there's a big enough... Isn't that where the bathroom scandal literally happened?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.
I still think a lot of people in Loudoun are gonna say, and that's why I bring it up, they're gonna be like, I don't know what that is.
And it's more than just a bathroom scandal, a young girl was raped by a gender non-conforming individual.
unidentified
Yeah, I think you're right in a lot of ways, because I always say this, I always say the internet's not real, because the only issues I ever have being a trans person in America is online.
Never once experienced transphobia in person in real life.
Even though I'm an outspoken trans person, people on the left know who I am, people on the right know who I am.
Never had any issues when me and Chloe do events together.
People in MAGA hats come up and give me hugs.
So I'm like, you know what?
I don't think it's as big of an issue as a lot of people are making it out to be.
It's just the most vocally active voices get the attention online.
Right.
And it's like, that was very similar to my experience while transitioning.
I mean, I didn't really get a whole lot of flack for it, save for when I started transitioning socially middle school.
But like, kids who are like 12, 13, 14, it's not the nicest age group.
Like, if you're any different from them, just expect them to not be nice about it.
But the interesting thing is, I mean, when I stopped transitioning, when I regretted my transition, it was that same community of people who I once saw almost like a second family, who immediately turned their backs on me.
And many of my former transgender friends would silently just like distance themselves from me and stop being my friend, but also a lot of them went out of their way to harass me just for talking about my grief and my regret.
They would tell me things like, This is all your fault.
It doesn't matter how young you were.
You should have known what your gender identity really was, and that you weren't really a boy, and that by transitioning erroneously, you stole resources from real transgender people.
So you should be ashamed of yourself.
You should stop talking about this.
It's not going to help you.
It's not going to help the people around you.
It's going to hurt transgender people, so just stay silent.
Well, that's cult-like behavior, right?
So what cults do is they...
Is they actually go after the people that leave the cult a lot more than anybody that's ever been in it, and it's to project fear on those that are still in the cult.
Like, if you leave this, we will unperson you, type thing.
It comes from their own fear.
I will also say that I think that most people do know what trans is at this point, even when I go back home to visit my family, who aren't perpetually online, like they don't even have maybe even Facebook accounts, you know.
Um, they know what it is because it's so pervasive in our society, but almost, I mean, I would say like 99% of the people I talk to are like, I don't care what you do as an adult, but leave the kids alone.
And I think that's the way that most people, that is a reasonable statement.
It is, leave the kids alone.
But to Tim's point, I think a lot of people don't understand how drastic it really is.
Like on the, literally on the plane here, talking to a guy, he lives in Florida.
I live in California.
We find out I'm more conservative, he's more liberal.
I'm like, that's so interesting.
And he's a nice guy, he talks to me.
It's one of the things I tell him that this gender stuff is the biggest deal to me.
And I tell him the example of AB1955, where Elon steps up and he's gonna move his business out of California.
It's basically schools must keep secrets from parents, which is insane.
And he literally said like, I don't believe you.
I'd fact check that.
And I was like, I promise if there's anything I know about politically, it's this specific thing.
Like it's my own state.
Yeah, it's a perfect example.
People don't understand the magnitude.
And we're also just the tip of the iceberg.
Think about this.
This is now happening to the 1, 2, 3, 4 year olds, every preschool, almost every preschool, everywhere.
So we're really going to just start seeing so much more.
People don't realize high school kids now are worried about their younger siblings because they know that they have been being brainwashed since an extremely young age.
I mean, I'm barely 20, and it's crazy how much things have changed in schools from when I was in school.
It wasn't too long from now that I graduated high school, and I actually was never exposed to this ideology through school.
It was never talked about in class, there were no books about it, and now they're teaching it to children, including books about gender and sexuality in grade levels as young as, like, first grade.
Well, and it's not even just the regular person that doesn't know what's going on.
I find this when talking to legislatures, they don't necessarily know a lot of the details on this stuff.
I literally sat in a state senator's office in Georgia, who is the chair of the Health and Human Services Committee in the Senate.
In arguing with him, trying to get them to add puberty blockers to this bill.
It was two years ago, or it was last year, in our legislative session.
He's telling me from his doctor friends are telling him this is fully reversible, yet we have paperwork from Leo Sapir and others saying, with all the evidence, that it's not.
But he's a doctor, he has this hubris that he knows more than you, so he actually insulted me in this.
Then, one of the moms that was on the call with me, Primary is him.
So this year, he decided to take the step to try to pass a bill to just do puberty blockers.
It didn't pass.
I think it passed the Senate, but it never went forward to the governor's desk.
So still, in the state of Georgia, puberty blockers are legal to use, but cross-sex hormones and surgeries are not.
I would actually say I'm more non-denominational Christian, but I was raised Catholic, so it's what I know the best.
I mean, I wasn't really raised up with any sort of faith background, actually.
Even though my mom and dad are both from Christian backgrounds, they just never really raised me with those values.
We stopped going to church when I was—I think I was still in preschool or just barely in kindergarten.
Do you know why?
I don't know why, actually.
I feel like they haven't really been clear on that.
Eventually, they just became atheists or agnostic over time.
And I feel like that kind of made it so that there was a bit of a hole in my life, in my identity, in understanding myself and the world around me and why I was made the way that I was.
And it didn't really become a part of my life until much later, through my activism journey, actually, as I started connecting with other Christians and speaking at churches and such.
So I'm curious, because, you know, typically Christianity is associated with, like, anti-LGBTQ in a lot of ways.
There are a lot of churches, however, that have started flying the progress pride flag and things like this.
But I'm wondering what your guys' thoughts are, Sarah especially, yours, if you consider yourself Catholic.
Do you think that your religion is at odds with your transition?
Or there's some kind of conflict?
unidentified
There is, if you, I mean it just depends because I've looked at some of the different teachings of the Bible and I do think that there are, when you look at some of the different interpretations as to ways things are written, like even when it talks about homosexuality, it's not necessarily talking about homosexuality laying with another man.
What they always talk about when it comes to the trans issue is derotomy and If you look at different translations directly from Hebrew, they actually say a man cannot dress as a woman as a woman cannot dress as a man.
And the word that they use for man is also the same word as they use for warrior in other spots.
So what they are quite literally saying is a man Or a warrior cannot decide himself as a woman to get an advantage over an enemy, while a woman cannot be a warrior in that sense.
And so I think that there are some odds in there, but I also just believe that as long as...
I'm a good person and holding good moral value, then I think a lot of these other things are arbitrary.
Do you go to church?
Sometimes, about once a year probably, yeah.
Oh, wow.
Yeah, I'm not like religiously going to church every weekend, but I've been to quite a few Catholic churches and In Atlanta.
And actually, one of our churches, the one that Sherman, the only building that Sherman, when he marched to the sea, did not burn was the Catholic Church that's right across the street from the Fulton County Courthouse.
And it is one of those very much has, like, boosts that pride and stuff like that.
I don't consider myself Christian or any other religion.
I just think that you have to be a good person doing good things for the betterment of life and for the betterment of creation.
And it's tough to know for sure.
But it is interesting to see this strong overlap in the culture war with issues like this, but also with religion.
There's a lot of people who were not religious.
Russell Brand, for instance, now becoming a Christian.
And a lot of people are really angry about it.
There's a lot of people on the left who get really mad about it, and even a lot of our viewers are secular, atheists or agnostic, but a lot of atheists, and there are a lot of people who are seemingly upset, or at least I should say doubtful, over whether or not people are genuinely accepting Christianity or just saying it for some reason because it's more just tribal politics.
So I'm wondering if you guys You know, not necessarily in that regard, but in terms of everything related to the culture war, do you think that a lot of the right, outside of the core elements, a lot of people on the right are just seemingly now falling in line with what they view to be a more popular movement?
Like, let me put it this way.
After the Bud Light stuff happens, it's clear that the woke stuff is not popular, Cory Bush gets voted out, Jamal Bowman's getting voted out, and granted there's, you know, political action money being spent against them, but with the target boycotts, with the Bud Light boycotts, it certainly seems like wokeness is not what is culturally acceptable.
And this is what I predicted before, that a lot of people will start saying, I was never woke, I'm not for that, so I'm curious if you guys think, have you seen this, like a lot of people just now being like, oh yeah, of course, I agree with you.
unidentified
I think that there's some of that.
It's interesting to watch because you see a lot of people now claiming faith and then people pushing them away.
But I think...
And as a Christian, we should have grace for people who have seen the light and give them the benefit of the doubt in that same regard.
I would never want to push somebody away because I think that they're, you know, grifting or something like that.
But at the same time, it could be that now they're like, okay, it almost goes back to what Harrison said earlier about, you know, people that are going along with gender ideology.
At some point, you're going to have to figure out what you're going to tell your grandkids as to why you didn't step up and fight this.
These people don't know what they're talking about.
Like, I know who Matt Walsh and Robyn D'Angelo are.
If she walked in here, I'd be like, why is Robyn D'Angelo here?
Like, you're not gonna pull a fast one on me, but she doesn't know who Matt Walsh is?
That's crazy.
But anyway, anyway.
What is a woman?
What is a man?
They literally have no answer for it.
I just think it's a cult, and this is a great question that kind of exposes that.
To the point where we're at, you know, when the Supreme Court Justice, Contagi Brown-Jackson, says she doesn't know what a woman is because she's not a biologist, it's kind of worrying that if this is the direction the country goes in, what does that look like?
You're forced to believe untruths, otherwise you lose your job, you lose money.
It's like 1984.
Orwell.
Orwell.
unidentified
Yeah, it's postmodernism at its finest.
Like, there's no such thing as absolute truth, except for that's an absolute statement, right?
So, the definition of postmodernism is contradictory in and of itself.
I think the end result, like where we're currently at in this country, Donald Trump, you know, imperfect avatar of the outrage of the populist movement in this country.
She's fine, whatever.
But, you know, no new wars, time-honored withdrawal.
I'm a big fan of that foreign policy stuff.
I think the economy did well until COVID hit.
It's fairly routine and mundane.
But then I look at Kamala Harris and Tim Walz.
She's selected, not a single vote in the primary, installed into the DNC, representing no policies, no politics, no campaign.
The Democratic Party today represents pure social conformity.
To the social orthodoxy of the liberal left, and negative partisanship.
Voting based on you hating someone else.
This country's gonna look real weird.
unidentified
But they want the first female president, even though they don't know what that is.
This is actually really interesting because, you know, with people pointing out, you know, we're mentioning that Donald Trump had the pride flag in 2016, the first president to support the LGBT community.
But now it's the LGB community.
You know, like in the UK, you've got Get the L Out, which is lesbian activists who are concerned over gender ideology.
They feel that young lesbian females are being told to become men when they actually just are attracted to girls and they're lesbians.
And so now you've got many individuals that we would have traditionally said LGBT, but since it's become LGBTQIAA2SP+, I think I'm getting it right, You've got a lot of these original people who would have supported Donald Trump, and who Donald Trump was supporting, now backing away, saying, like, nah, I'm not interested in this.
unidentified
Yeah.
I actually would go with, see, I keep the LGBT, but the original T stand for transsexual, not transgender.
Transsexuals are actual people with people with gender dysphoria, diagnosed gender dysphoria, have gone through the process of transitioning to look and have an uncomfortability with their biological, with their secondary sex characteristics.
That's like the diagnosis of gender dysphoria in and of itself.
And then they've taken the steps to actually transition and live life as the opposite sex, but we always know that we can't change our sex, we are the same sex.
Transgender is, as I talk about post-modernism, it is the umbrella term that if you don't feel like you are this, like you're given sex, whatever that means, that's why non-binary is a thing in transgender communities, non-binary and transgender are Are intertwined because they say, well, I don't feel like my sex at birth.
So I'm now trans because I dress differently and I'm non-binary and that's transgender.
So there, I, I separate it with the LGBT and then just the queer community.
I say the queer community.
Separating it by like commitment or something.
What's that?
It sounds like you're kind of separating it by like the full kind of commitment to it and I guess the difference between saying you can change your biological sex or not.
Like every cell in your body is XX or XY, right?
Yeah, exactly.
And I think it's the level of commitment.
It also is, like I said, you live within the binary.
There is only two genders.
There's only two sexes, right?
Not a million.
Yeah, exactly.
So I think that that's the main difference.
But it is interesting, though, with the Republican platform, because, you know, they always talk about like removing LGBT rights and everything like that, where just at the last RNC convention, they removed all quote unquote homophobic language.
They actually removed their opposition to gay marriage from the party platform completely.
This is not being talked about very much, but it was a big win for, you know, the Log Cabin Republicans and that.
I pulled up the HRC definitions, but there's a, you know, this is where they always try to make things seem a bit more, like, normal and reasonable, but New York, for instance, this is a story that I've covered quite a bit over the past eight years.
New York City recognizes 31 different genders, and they're, like, the same in some, like, so they have female to male is recognized as a gender, and FTM is recognized as a gender.
But it's mostly young activists online and gender ideologues trying to prove that certain people in the mainstream are passing transgender individuals.
unidentified
I've had people try to claim that I'm actually a biological male because of my shoulders and really niche proportions, like my arms being too long or something.
Do they ask about the size of your skull in proportion to your intelligence, too?
I mean, if you're taking testosterone, it's going to have these impacts on you and then they're going to go and insult you afterward.
unidentified
Right, which is actually exactly what happened.
I think that's one of the things that's not talked about enough, especially with the detransitioners and how much this actually hurts detransitioners, because now when you want to go and start passing legislation against trans adults and you want to be a certain way towards trans adults,
A lot of, because some of these detransitioners have put that harm in their body that you can't reverse, they're never gonna be able to change their voice back and stuff like that, and so some of that legislation can end up hurting the people that you're supposedly, you know, using to help protect, and that's the detrans community.
Well, you know what's crazy, too, is that right now, I don't think there actually is any kind of legitimate way for an individual to To, like, to pass perfectly.
The voice thing is something that's fairly obvious.
When you see a female who transitions to male, the voice doesn't become masculine.
It just becomes, like, a high-pitched vocal fry.
unidentified
It depends on what age they transition and, like, genetics.
I actually had a pretty deep voice.
It's a miracle that I actually sound like a woman right now, because I had a deeper voice than, like, almost all my male peers.
By getting off testosterone, it kind of went back?
unidentified
Yeah, I didn't think that it was ever going to come back.
I mean, a lot of people thought that I, they just assumed that I was a transgender woman because of like my facial features at the time and my voice being so deep.
Wow.
I never thought that I was ever going to sound or look like a woman again.
It says they can convert plant-based sterols derived from soy OEMs into bio-identical hormones through a series of chemical reactions.
Synthetic testosterone is used in various forms of HRT, such as injections, gels, patches, or pellets.
unidentified
I think people are beautiful the way they are created, especially children, and that it just doesn't make any sense to try to change something that's inevitable.
I mean, nobody is so broken that they have to change who they fundamentally are and lie to everybody about that.
It says, uh, fluctuates significantly depending on age and menstrual cycle phase.
Yep.
So it can be 20 to 150, mid-cycle is 150 to 400, and, uh, post-ovulation is 30 to 400.
unidentified
And when a woman is pregnant, that's what causes a lot of the, um, the mental side effects that come with pregnancy is because they continuously have high elevated levels of projec- of, uh... Wait, is that progest- estradiol?
Wait.
I'm actually confusing it with progesterone, which is another thing.
I mean, you're making- I'm just trying to understand, like, to what degree of things that, like, you threw a sandwich in the garbage, or you dumped As a NATO woman, I've had quite a few moments like that.
unidentified
I reacted poorly to a friend that there was nothing wrong with what they were doing or saying.
And then I reacted poorly and then I got upset that I was upset.
And then you get upset that you're upset.
And then you start feeling really crazy.
As a native woman, I've had quite a few moments like that.
But what was it like when you first started testosterone?
unidentified
I mean, when I first started it, it was incredible.
So this was about a month or two after I started the puberty blockers, right?
So being on the puberty blockers alone was just a terrible experience.
So it caused me a very heavy period at first because of the drop in the sex hormones, right?
And then after the first few weeks, I started experiencing basically side effects of menopause because that was basically the state that my body was in.
No sex hormones when I'm supposed to be developing normally.
So I was experiencing like hot flashes, these other uncomfortable sensations that came with that, like this uncontrollable sweating, itching, tingling all over my body, kind of like what a lot of women like in their late 40s, early 50s start to experience as they naturally go to Go through menopause.
It was incredibly uncomfortable, because I was just like a 13-year-old girl, and it made it hard to focus on my studies.
And there were like some emotional side effects as well, like I was completely emotionally numb.
Not completely, but I was very numb during this time, very unfocused, unmotivated, and I really just wanted to move on to the next thing, and that's...
People say that puberty blockers are reversible.
They're not.
I mean, I'm still experiencing side effects from it.
I experience joint pain, back pain, and most children who go on them go on to further transition medically anyways, which I did.
And so starting on the testosterone, it was...
Completely different like I finally had my energy back.
I I Felt like I had I started feeling really confident because I was on I was literally taking steroids Yeah, and in massive doses.
I had like a massive boost in my sex drive, which was I mean incredibly uncomfortable given the age that I was at it was very hard for me to control and I I feel like it's very dangerous to be putting young women, and especially girls who are still children, who are still developing on male hormones, because of that.
It takes away, like, their... these... it takes away the...
These instincts that they have to protect their sexuality away, and it totally changes your judgment.
It makes you more brash, more prone to making bad decisions.
I ended up becoming very unstable the more that I was on it.
I was very vulnerable to being groomed by adult men in a sexual way, both in and outside of the transgender community.
How old are you now?
I'm 20 now.
But I was going through this when I was like 13, 16.
And eventually the feelings of excitement and novelty went away.
And it wasn't, like, I didn't feel, I didn't feel great to be on after a while, because it also makes it, in my experience, it makes it a lot harder to process, um, especially, like, negative emotions, like, um, like, sadness, anger.
I was just becoming so much more unhappy over time, and it was, like, all these problems I had were building up, and it was affecting all my relationships.
We had a guest on who said that she was experiencing gender dysphoria, Wanted to transition to, you know, take testosterone and all that.
And then spoke with her brother, who said, before you do that, get a hormone test.
She did, and she found that her hormone levels were out of whack for her age and for being a female.
And so, instead of going through with a gender transition, she opted for estrogen, and she said it cured her.
All of a sudden, she wasn't experiencing dysphoria anymore, she felt normal, and that she thinks it wasn't actually dysphoria, it was a hormone imbalance that was causing distress.
And so I'm wondering if like, did taking hormones, do you guys think taking hormones in any way affected who you were attracted to?
unidentified
Not really.
I mean, I don't really find, I didn't really, I mean, I've heard some people say that their sexuality like entirely switched, like they went from like straight to gay or vice versa while on testosterone, even like, like going off of it.
But I've always been straight.
I've always been attracted to men.
When I was a little younger, I considered myself to be bisexual.
I had some marginal sexual attraction to women, but it was never really anything emotional or anything that I ever acted on.
I don't think jazz understands what it feels like to actually feel romantic attraction Because Jazz has been castrated before?
unidentified
No, I mean, he was not allowed to go through normal pubertal development.
He never even had, like, an orgasm before they operated on him.
And because they put it—they blocked his puberty when he was so young, when he was only 11 years old, he didn't have sufficient tissue to perform the vaginoplasty like they normally do.
So he's had so many—he's had all these complications.
had to have several revision surgeries, and he's never going to be able to experience an orgasm or any sexual function in his life.
He's never going to be able to have children of his own.
But on a mental and emotional level, someone like Jazz, I don't think, has the capability to comprehend attraction.
And so there is another element to that story.
Jazz at one point, this is like seven years ago or something, said that they were pansexual.
And that was because Jazz was saying that he or whatever, I don't know, they were attracted to women.
So what I see here is a strong potentiality that Jazz as a child has no idea what any of this stuff means, hasn't gone through puberty, can't experience these feelings, and then is told by his parents at the time, he was a he, That he's trans.
Seven years old.
Eight, nine, ten, eleven.
You have no idea what this means.
And you're like, okay.
You get your sexual organs removed.
You cannot experience.
There's no puberty.
There's no attraction.
But I wonder if what actually happened was that Jazz can feel attraction.
And after being told by your parents, you know, when you're pre-pubescent, that you're actually a girl, Jazz just said, okay, I'll date a guy.
That's what I'm told I'm supposed to do.
didn't enjoy it properly, then found out that they were attracted to females, because Jess is biologically male, and is now saying, then I'm pan, because if you're attracted to both, you must be pansexual, right?
You love everybody, which really just means bi, but you know, they changed the word for whatever reason.
unidentified
And if he does experience sexual attraction, then he has, he doesn't have any means to act on it anymore.
I think my understanding is that if you are castrated pre-puberty, you will never experience these psychological, these emotions, this attraction.
unidentified
Well, there is a difference between a romantic attraction and sexual attraction.
You gain that sexual attraction through puberty.
So I can see that there might be like, oh, I think that this person's attractive, or this person's attractive, but not really I don't ever feel that sexual drive to be with that person in a sexual manner, though, too.
The two things are so deeply interlinked, so to never be able to experience that, I can't imagine how that's going to affect him in his relationships.
Yeah, it's heartbreaking what they did to Jazz and what they're doing to so many other children.
It's absolutely heartbreaking.
Well, I mean, that video of the mom was like, she should be in jail.
Yeah.
Have you seen that video where the mom's, like, trying to get the little boy to, like, say how he loves being a girl or whatever, and he's like, no, I don't like doing this, mom.
I'm really worried about what happens in the future with a lot of these people who are prescient in this because Man, when you look at these commercials for different drugs, and they talk about how these SSRIs, these antidepressants, result in thoughts of violence.
Yeah, it's kind of crazy that we'd be giving these people these drugs as if it's supposed to be helping them, when it's not, it's making them crazier.
But what's gonna happen to these people who go through this stuff?
I fear for Jazz Jennings' personal safety, because Jazz is...
Outside the confines of social normality.
And I'll explain that, I'll elaborate on that to say, social normality is a very, very, very wide net.
Okay?
There are... LGBTQ people are within the order of social normality.
A gay and trans person walk into a bar, they get served drinks, that's totally fine.
But Jazz, going through this as a child, these children are outside of that.
They're not going to experience the emotions.
They haven't made these decisions for themselves.
They were never able to decide if they wanted to have kids in the first place because it was done before puberty.
So now, you've got adults who have decided to do this.
You have adults who don't want to have kids.
It's totally fine.
But to have someone who was never given the option to be sterilized Never go through puberty, never had the opportunity.
Jazz is gonna come to a point where they may want to have children, but there is zero possibility that it will ever happen.
And so you are, you have been removed by force without your choice.
That to me is scary.
What happens when you have a large, large groups of these people who feel like this was taken from them?
unidentified
Well you, as a dad, You experience, when you've created another life, another human being, just this overwhelming sense of, like, love and purpose that I really don't think you can understand until you do it.
Like, I don't think I understood how much my parents loved me until I had Sawyer.
It's just, like, the most absolutely incredible, meaningful thing, and I think it's so sad that kids are gonna have that taken from them at a young age and it never can go back.
It's just...
I mean, it's the most beautiful thing you do.
I promise to everyone listening, like, it is just something absolutely remarkable.
And, I mean, it was, like, the changes to my fertility and, like, potentially losing that.
I don't think they even said that during the consultations for blockers or testosterone.
They did mention that I wouldn't be able to breastfeed after losing my breasts, but it didn't matter though.
It didn't matter to me at the time because I was still a kid.
I was still growing up.
Why would I be thinking about having children of my own when I still was one?
But it was that exact epiphany that pulled me out of transitioning, that I wanted to become a mother one day, that I wanted to fulfill the role of a wife in a marriage and have children naturally and get pregnant and give birth and to nurse my children, to feed them the way that God intended.
And I just, I can't imagine coming to that realization after losing the ability to do all of that.
It broke my heart knowing that I was never going to be able to...
That I lost a part of myself as a now aspiring mother and even a major part of my sexuality as a woman and losing my breasts.
You're amazing.
Yeah.
Thank you.
Yeah, I can't remember what happened if they had mentioned it in my first appointments and stuff like that, but I did so much of my own research on what the effects and everything were that by the time I went into my first appointment, I knew that...
Estrogen would sterilize me after three months.
Actually, before I even went in there, I was like, I'm not even going into my first appointment without, um, you know, freezing, freezing, uh, sperm.
So I could, if I ever did meet somebody later on in life and was open to kids, then possibly we could go through IVF, but that would be the only, only way.
But you're taking that away from even children.
You're not even doing it after they start, or you're not even starting puberty.
So you're not even allowing them that option.
They say that allowing children to transition, to choose that for themselves, is allowing them to practice bodily autonomy, but children don't have bodily autonomy.
And I would argue that you're actually taking away their autonomy by doing this to them at the age that they are.
Because when they become adults, they're not going to be able to decide They're not going to be able to have healthy sexual relationships.
They're not going to be able to... They could have their ability to have children taken away.
So, I mean, I've lived a whole different life before this, but I've always, so I always go back to, I remember when I was four years old feeling like something was different for me and feeling that for some reason I wanted to be a girl.
I didn't know why.
Um, never expressing that growing up through the 90s and whatnot, but, um, never, but it was, it was, it was different.
Always suppressing, always hiding.
Um, I actually did a lot of the more masculine things.
I was a logistics officer in the army for seven years.
Um, and then the first person I ever came out to, um, was my ex in 2014.
And we were, we were still going, we were still going through the process.
I was going to live my life as a man, my whole life.
And then things changed.
And, um, I when I got out of the army I started to explore this a little bit more and yeah I was 30 when I got out of the army and then it took me still about five more years to start transitioning in 2019 before I took the first shot of estrogen so from 2014 coming out to somebody to 2019 trying to figure myself out between that whole period of time that's how much time I took as an adult to figure myself out and And we're pushing children into this, like, in one day.
It was very much just, I would, I mean, throughout my entire childhood, adolescence, like, even when I started going through puberty and stuff like that, whenever I would even have sexual fantasies, I was always a woman in the sexual fantasies.
So that was my gender dysphoria, was always feeling like this.
And always being with men.
So you talk about that, I'm bisexual, and I've been with men and women, and it's like, I think that I just was more open to it after I started transitioning because I never saw myself as a man with a man, ever.
And so it was... What do you think about, you know, Matt Walsh says that it should all be banned, no matter how old you are.
unidentified
I think, um, I mean, I'm obviously very much a libertarian that thinks...
That we had the right to bodily autonomy and if you ban something like this, if you're consistent, I can respect your views if you're consistent and say that we should ban all plastic surgery in general or body modification in general because that's in a lot of ways... I think Matt Walsh probably would say yes.
Yeah, and that's what I mean, at least he's consistent in a lot of those views, but I'm saying like, as long as you're consistent in saying that, but I think that in a lot of ways we just say adults have bodily autonomy, they can do what they want and they can make the right decisions for themselves as long as they're not being manipulated into it by doctors because
I always say this, and I've gotten some flack from detransitioners for being like, well, adults can do what they want, but there are a heavy set of adult detransitioners who started transitioning after 18.
But the difference with them, a lot of times, is these doctors are still the ones putting it in their head.
They're going through mental health issues, and they're saying, you know what?
You're probably just a boy, and that's why you're doing this.
And so they're kind of, in a lot of ways, manipulated into it.
I do think that that is medical malpractice.
I've kind of always said I would rather a doctor tell you, I don't know if this is what's right for you.
I have no idea.
I don't know what this is going to do to you, but it's your body, your choice.
You can do what you want with it, and we'll just try to make sure it's as safe as possible.
Is that how the doctors treated you?
So I do go under informed consent and again because I was so much older I felt more comfortable doing it that way and I'm like you know but I have a great doctor who I just I trust her with my levels and that's really it because I and especially like after COVID it's like we You have to do your own research on anything you're putting into your body and anything that you're doing.
So I think that that does, as an adult, you can do your own, you should always do your own research and make the best decision for yourself.
The argument that we've had, I think that Matt Walsh brings up, is that body modification has limits.
You know, getting your ears trimmed or whatever might make you look a little different.
Getting a nose job makes you look different.
But what if someone said that they wanted to remove their fingers or their hand, right?
People suffer from a body dysmorphic disorder.
Where there are people who stage accidents because they go to the doctor and they say, I need my hand to be removed.
And they'll say, absolutely not.
So in the workplace they will intentionally have an accident so that the doctor will be forced to remove it.
I mean, we wouldn't allow that.
And that's the argument that body modification is legal but there's always a moral line.
I suppose your argument is then your line is wider than Max's.
unidentified
My line would be a lot wider because exactly to the point that you would make it, that you say that somebody was going to do it, my point would be that they were going to do it anyways.
It's whether they do it under the guise of a good licensed doctor, or they're going to go under the black market and get it done.
I mean, Thailand is huge for this stuff, and those are good doctors over there.
So you have other areas in the world that are doing it.
So even if we ban it here, it's not going to change the practice of people going somewhere else and getting it done.
When we talked to Seamus Cogman about abortion, you know, the left makes the argument, like I think Whoopi Goldberg famously held up the coat hanger, you know, back in, was it 2012 or something?
I don't remember.
And Seamus' response was like, yep.
Yeah, they will, I guess, but it'll still reduce dramatically because the ease of access people will stop doing it, and it's a fact.
With the overturning of Roe v. Wade, I think 35,000 children per year are being born now because many of these states have removed this.
The argument would be from You know, people who are more strict on whether you allow body modification are going to say, sure, they could fly to Thailand, but not in the United States, which will dramatically reduce these things happening.
Me, I'm substantially more libertarian.
I do think there's a moral line.
It's probably, it's substantially wider than Matt Walsh's, maybe not as wide as yours, Sarah.
But I think like if you're 30, you know, you're well past this age.
The only concern I have is whether or not it's going to be in schools.
We don't want kids to be indoctrinated by this stuff.
We want this to be something that maybe when you're a lot older, you can experience and explore.
18, I think, is too young, but I'm still a bit more libertarian, so it's harder for me to, you know, advocate for laws to lock down other people's lives in that way.
unidentified
What about the issue, then, of kids seeing it, though?
That's why the challenge is, as to what Matt Walsh is saying, Michael Knoll says that the gender ideology should be removed from society, right?
Matt Walsh says that you should not be able to get any kind of modification, and the strong argument they make is that What happens is you end up with commercials, you may end up with TV shows, and then kids will be exposed to this in some way, and then kids will be educated on it.
So when gay marriage was the big argument, this was like 2008, you have a conservative saying, next thing you know they're going to be teaching gay sex in schools.
And the liberals said, no they won't, that's a lie.
And now they literally are.
And the argument they make is, well, if the kids see two men holding hands together, you need to explain what's going on, right?
And if we're doing sex ed, you need to explain what that means, right?
So we do get to that point.
And that's what I'm saying about, that's the hard line for me, because I'm a bit more libertarian, that an adult, live your life, right?
But trying to limit the exposure of kids.
So maybe the reality is you can do what you want, but we don't make TV shows about it.
We don't make commercials for it.
I have no problem if someone on TV in a show periodically is, you know, trans or whatever.
That's not an issue.
But when they make whole TV shows like I Am Jazz about it, which the whole thing is just pushing this and it's horrifying abuse, then I think that that's where you get to be an issue.
The challenge with everything I think ultimately is that There's no real easy way to draw a line and say right and wrong on one side or the other, because there's gradients.
unidentified
Yeah.
And I'll say, like, that's one of the things that kind of drew me to even being an outspoken trans person is the fact that I think if kids are out there and they are being exposed to it, like we're seeing right now, being somebody like me that's telling them to wait might play some factor into them and actually influence them.
Well, maybe this person Who's gone through this.
They're telling me I should wait till I'm an adult.
Ready to Rumble says, Neuralink will cure transgenderism and wokeness.
Well, here's a question for you guys.
Or for you.
If you could, let's say earlier on in your life, I'm probably different for you now, but let's say the doctor was like, we have the Neuralink chip and it will make you straight and cis-heteronormative, whatever.
Would you do it?
unidentified
It was hard to say because I don't like to think about in terms of regrets in my life I don't regret things, but I would say yeah, it'd make my life a whole lot easier I think that that would be that would be the case now.
I don't really necessarily believe in Neuralink.
I think me and I think me and Shane are kind of on the same tube as that.
I've seen too many episodes of Black Mirror when it comes to what they can do in Neuralink.
Yeah, like, Elon, you're great, but the Neuralink stuff is scary.
However, however, the Neuralink stuff so far is, like, curing severed spines.
Totally fine with that.
It's the programmable brain stuff that freaks me out.
unidentified
There's the episode of Black Mirror where the person's traveling abroad and when they come back they have them replay the last 24-48 hours while they were traveling and I'm just like that would be that you just plug into this computer and they would see your memories from the last 48 hours.
So this is the Borg in Star Trek The Next Generation.
It's described as hearing a million voices all at once when you're when you're wired in and it You know, it's interesting because I think the general idea of the Borg and Star Trek, it's the hive mind, they all operate in sync.
Granted, they added a queen, that's kind of dumb.
But the general idea, well actually that doesn't make sense for communism.
But the general idea being that it's not that when they plug you in, your will is taken from you.
It's that you now instantly hear all of the voices of everyone in the collective and you You agree with it.
You're all moving in complete agreement with each other.
You get that neural link, and you're gonna know truth.
You're gonna know acceptable truth, and you're gonna operate.
And X is actually... The reason why I think that Elon wanted X is not just about free speech, it's also because it's a rudimentary hive mind.
It's human consciousness plastered on the internet for everyone to see and for computers to research.
And so, it does a lot.
Communication between Earth and Mars, many have said Twitter X is a great way to handle this because the delay in communication is acceptable on X.
Your post can be seen 20 minutes later and the information is still relevant for some time.
Old posts can reemerge, whereas if you're trying to communicate in real time with like Zoom, 20 minute gaps is not going to really cut it for you.
But we'll wind down there.
This has been absolutely fascinating.
If you guys want to shout anything out or give any last thoughts before we go.
unidentified
Yeah, this is the moment in history where we turn this around.
My username on X and Instagram is chocole, C-H-O-O-C-O-L-E.
And I also have a YouTube channel as well where I'm doing interviews with OD Transitioners.
Cool!
Yeah, I just want to say thank you guys for such a great conversation.
Thanks, Tim, for bringing this together.
Like you said, there's so much to do.
Everybody can speak out.
When it's as popular as it is, when more people are speaking out, it's not so scary to speak out because you can't get canceled if it's the popular thing to do, right?
And 78% of Americans don't agree with transitioning children.
So yeah, I think that's what's important.
Speaking out, and you can find me, go to my website, SarahHigdon.com, Sarah Higdon with an underscore on X and Instagram, as well as just Sarah Higdon on YouTube, and also go check out what we're doing over at Free The People as well, where I am the digital marketing manager.
