The Culture War #70 The Secret Life Of The Bidens w/Lunden Roberts & Alex Stein
Host:
Tim Pool @Timcast (everywhere)
Guests:
Lunden Roberts @lundentownn_ (Instagram)
Alex Stein @AlexStein99 (X)
Producers:
Lisa Elizabeth @LisaElizabeth (X)
Kellen Leeson @KellenPDL (X)
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Yeah, well, that's my book, Out of the Shadows, and it's about meeting Hunter, our relationship, and my pregnancy, having a child, becoming a mother, and the entire journey from beginning to end, and the chaos, the wildness, and dark times, good times, sad times, all of the above.
Of course, we're all really interested to hear about, you know, the family, like your experiences, how this stuff happened, but also the media reaction.
I think it's going to be really interesting because I'm sure they're just lying about everything.
But just to make it easy for people to understand, your child is the grandchild of President Joe Biden.
Man, I guess I hate to be crass, but we'll jump right into the biggest news, and that is that Joe Biden and the Biden family did not acknowledge your child.
They came out with a statement last year, Joe and Jill did, to acknowledge Navy and say that, um, I forget the exact statement, but they were, they gave.
unidentified
They love all of their grandchildren, including Navy.
They had never talked about her ever.
And this was when you were fighting to get her to be able to use the Biden last name.
Well, this was right after the child support dispute.
You know, Hunter, we went through this paternity suit and everything and then there's like this long period, probably what, two years where there's nothing.
I don't hear anything.
And then it's just media, you know, and the constant, what is it, six grandchildren that he has when he has seven?
Or is it eight?
unidentified
I think he has eight with Navy.
No, it's seven with maybe six that they have from the... Yeah, yeah.
And then there's this child support dispute where, you know, Hunter files to lower his child support.
And we go through this and...
literally have not spoke since I was pregnant and then I go into his depositions and he was shocked to see me there to say the least but he answered a couple questions and then decided that like maybe it's best if him and I sat down and talk and so we go to this room you know my attorney like grabs me for he's like don't agree to anything until like you you talk to him come back out here and talk to us
It's like, okay, so I go back there and I talked to him for the first time in, what, five years, I guess, since I'd been pregnant.
Wow.
And we settle the child support dispute and that's, you know, had the whole Biden name thing and all that through into it, thrown into it.
And so, He decided, you know, that having that last name was probably not the safest bet with her living in Arkansas and wanted to talk to me about maybe not, you know, using that name and let her choose it.
When she gets old enough, let her choose what last name she wants to have.
But you had said at one point, or I had read, that one of the reasons you had wanted her to have the Biden last name is because it comes with a certain amount of power in America and it could potentially
Benefit her later in life, especially if she's not gonna have a father That was from the court documents and a lot of times like throughout the book you'll find out like My anxiety is so high Especially like dealing with media and stuff and you've lived this private life forever And now all you're wanting is someone to take accountability for their child but it's such a public person that you can't do that without the media and so it talks about like how crazy it is like this big transformation in your life and
That part is, like, really tough.
Like, I know people don't think that's something and people think, oh, like, she's out for clout, she's out for fame.
No, that's not the case.
Like, being in the media and stuff is overwhelming.
It's like not something that I want to look at or see all the time.
So, what were we talking about before that?
unidentified
I was saying you had said, you were talking about the child custody, some of the agreements, and you had said Hunter Biden had said, he said it was better for her not to have the last name while living in Arkansas.
Right, and the court documents that you had mentioned, or you had stated, Those were all, like, my attorney's wordings.
So, he did all the, like, litigation, and I put everything in his hands.
I just wanted him to take accountability in the beginning, so that's why I filed for the paternity suit, and then, like, I was able to breathe after the DNA test, and I just handed everything to my attorney and let him handle it.
Yeah, he actually met, um, there's some stories in the book where he actually met with my friends, a couple of them, and that were mutual friends to him, and he made the comment, this is after Navy was born, this is like a month or two after Navy was born, and he's like, you know, how do I even know it's mine?
And they're like, Hunt, you know this baby's yours.
You know, the paternity suit wasn't filed for months, and people don't understand, like, they're like, yeah, well, why was it filed so late?
Like, she didn't know who the father was and stuff.
No.
When I, and I talk about this, like, I go through all of these stories, but, you know, Hunter was in a bad place, as we all know, and I left him to come home to Arkansas, and I felt like I was another scandal for him.
I felt like I had let him down.
I'd built his trust.
This was my friend.
This was, you know, someone I was in love with, someone I cared about.
Like this, I felt like I'd let him down.
So the last I talked to him, I'm coming to Arkansas, and I'm just gonna Be private, not tell anyone who the father is, and move on with my life.
Well, you come home to this small town Arkansas, there's all these rumors, you know, she doesn't know who the father is.
Or, making up, at one point it was an NBA players, and then it goes on to somebody had said... Which NBA player?
I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna keep it private, but there's so much going on that you're dealing with and you're constantly having to defend and protect him is what it felt like.
Then you have a child and you realize someday she's gonna get older and you develop this mother's love for a child and you realize someday she's gonna get older and she's gonna want to know who her dad is and am I supposed to tell her?
Before I came back to Arkansas, when I was pregnant and had been around him, he was upset.
One of the last conversations I had with him, he makes a comment about finances and says something about his daughter needs a laptop and he couldn't even afford to get her that.
And I knew he was throwing these financial things in my face because I'm pregnant and he thinks I'm fixing to come after him.
This was 2018, the beginning of 2018, because I had her in August of 2018.
This is, I'm already pregnant, and then, you know, I'm telling him, and then we meet, you know, a few more times.
I've seen him a few more times after that.
But the last time that I've seen him in person, He's talking about how he doesn't have finances to support his kids, and I know that he's throwing that stuff.
He's never talked to me like that, but he's only doing that because I'm pregnant now with his child, and I instantly was mad.
I was like, you know what?
This isn't about that, and if that's what you're insinuating, Then I was really mad, and I talk in the book, like, he was always Hunt.
Like, I always called him Hunt.
All the time.
That's what everybody close to him called him.
I'm pretty sure that's what his family called him.
It was Howie called him that.
That's when I started calling him Hunter again.
Like, we had just met.
Like, I was like, uh-uh.
I was so mad.
And throughout the book, you'll see, like, that's when I stopped calling him Hunt.
After that, he's Hunter.
And, um, it pissed me off so bad.
I came home to Arkansas.
unidentified
Because he wasn't acknowledging your child or because he was, like, making comment on your character by saying it was about money?
They knew that it I think the general perception of Hunter Biden's finances is typically they're good.
You know what I mean?
I won't get overtly political, but I mean, aside from being in this very well-connected family, I mean, his uncle has got lucrative contracts overseas or had in the past, not to mention his position on a board in which he was paid, I believe, was $83,000 a month.
The reason why I asked the year, because what year was he on the board of Burisma?
You know that the rumors, I mean I don't know if they're rumors, I think it's kind of been exposed that there are a lot of business deals and that the big guy, the 10% of the big guy, that Joe is directly benefiting from these business deals that his brother James and his son Hunter were setting up.
I do, and I of course got it from Hunter, but like you open it up and it says Hunter Biden board meeting and it has the date and I want to say the date was like 2016 or 2017 or something from the briefcase and now that briefcase is full of like baby sonograms because Where else are you gonna keep them?
Like, when you would talk to him about his addiction at any time, you know, he owned it and would say that it's his addiction.
No one brought it upon him but himself.
And no one's gonna get him to stop but himself.
And he wasn't ready.
He even at one point told me that, you know, he was gonna go somewhere and get injected with this frog venom that just like completely takes away withdrawals and like the next day he won't have any addictions or anything and I thought that was crazy he told me he's told my friends that too and um apparently there was there was a woman that gave a testimony and he had told her the same thing and no they go to Costa Rica and you lick a frog No, no, no.
Some people might not want to associate, you know what I mean?
I don't know, maybe the Hunter Biden son, you're in Arkansas.
Are y'all hiring?
I don't know, it might be hard to make money in your situation being connected with all this stuff, because anywhere you get hired, there's a little drama.
Well, you know, you always want to be a professional basketball player until you're in college and you're practicing eight hours a day and then you're like, you're ready for it to end, you get burnt out.
But, you know, I had a bachelor's degree in interdisciplinary studies where I had just like a bunch of minors and they were mostly like criminology, sociology, psychology, all those.
And I have this weird obsession with like, Crime cases and I wanted to like work on crime scenes like I wanted to be a federal agent someday and work that whole thing.
- It is, I got accepted into CSI school and that's what brought me to DC.
And... - Do y'all ever watch crime stuff?
I know that's like a fast thing right now but like my sister always says like the men that I choose like I would have probably married Ted Bundy and she's so right.
She was dating Dodi Fayed at the time, and the conspiracy is that maybe she was pregnant with Dodi Fayed's baby, and that supposedly the royal bloodline didn't want to get mixed with, like, this is Islamic bloodline.
That's the conspiracy.
I don't know if that's true, YouTube.
I'm just saying.
So it's kind of like you.
Like, maybe they didn't want the Biden family to be mixed bloodline with some random person from Arkansas.
No, it is just kind of funny that the parable I guess that you guys are these nice attractive young women that are attached to these huge families that kind of don't want you to be a part of it.
unidentified
Did you ever meet any of Hunter's other kids or anyone else?
There's a chapter in the book where I talk about Cee and Joe and we're at Bo's house in Wilmington and There's a knock at the door, you know, and I tell Hunter we're back in the bedroom and I tell him and he goes out and it's Joe and I didn't know I stayed in the back and I hear the door shut so he walks out and he's talking to him so I go out I sneak and I'm like looking through the window and I think the chapter is called A Face in the Window and it's like
Joe is facing Hunter and I'm looking through and like you can see Hunter he's like using his hands and he's like talking I'm sure making excuses for something I think.
No he didn't seem that way but probably yeah probably a little paranoid especially like if you're trying to like deflect and get him away from the house because there's paraphernalia inside and I don't want you to come in here type.
But um no I wouldn't say scared but he um His dad, like, this look on his face, like, it was just, like, this frown, and he just looked so solemn, and it was, like... It was, like, hurt, you know?
But, like, this is one of the most powerful men, and this is a battle that he can't pull his son out of.
Like, he's sitting there watching his son, you know, suffer from addiction and have all these things that come with that, and, you know, there's nothing he can do.
Hunter made it clear that, you know, he wasn't gonna get help until he wanted to.
So crack is like, basically you're diluting it so you can get a cheap heart, like a cheap substance that you can just... Well, London, you probably know this better because usually what Hunter was probably doing is he was probably actually smoking cocaine, not crack.
Yeah, no, he would have these, and I talk about it in the book, like, how you wouldn't think that I could get you, like, the Rolls Royce Crack pipe, but I can and I know how to fix all of it, you know because of him But there's like stems as he would call them.
They're like these little glass tubes and the copper and stuff That's what he used and a little soft tip, you know, so it doesn't yeah Although I talk about I also do have a scar on or may or may not Have a scar on one of my breasts from a crack pipe that he dropped on me.
It's sad that... I know, the drug use is bad, but you're with someone you care about, you have a kid, and then all of a sudden his family is like, you know, hoity-toity, you have nothing to do with this woman, and then he's... they're acting like you don't exist.
I don't care if they act like I exist, but the fact that they do have a child and a grandchild that is their blood that, you know, does exist.
That's what's sad, because one day my daughter's gonna see this and it's sad.
unidentified
Well, I have younger siblings.
My mom died when I was a kid, and my dad was remarried.
I have younger siblings, and they're a huge part of my life.
I have a very positive relationship with them, and I think in some ways it's interesting that your daughter will grow up with the messaging from the Bidens, like, we are such involved grandparents.
Joe Biden says he calls all his granddaughters every single day, and it must be nerve-wracking as a parent to be like, but he doesn't call you.
And, um, she starts realizing, like, she's getting old enough to see, like, you know, her, um, I'll never forget, it was her best friend Lawson.
Like, she sees, uh, two of my best friends, Siva and Dustin, she sees them together and she sees that they are Lawson's mom and Lawson's dad, and she's like, Why do I only have a mom?
Do I have a dad?
And I was like, yeah.
Yeah, actually.
And I detail it all in one of the chapters.
I'm putting her in bed when she's asking this.
And you're kind of taken back because you're not ever ready for it.
You know that conversation is going to come.
But Navy is also so intelligent and so ahead of her time.
And I just wasn't expecting it.
But it came out of nowhere, and I was just like, I want my daughter to be resilient.
I want her to, you know, know where she comes from always and know that, you know, she's able to create herself and whatever happens on either side, maternal or paternal, that she should be proud of who she is.
unidentified
So what did you tell her?
Are you like, yeah, your dad is this guy and your grandpa's the president?
And, you know, you start making excuses because you don't want to break your kid's heart.
And so I'm like, well, he lives really far away and he's really busy.
And she's like, oh, okay.
And I was like, you know, and then I start to tell her about her grandfather and how he's like this really important person.
I was like, you know how we have the books about No, I'm just laughing, really important, he's the leader of the free world.
Well, I tell her that, so I'm like, you know how like in the books that we read you have like the kings and queens and all that, and she's like, yeah, I was like, okay, I said, well in America we have a president, and she's like, okay, and so I tell her, you know, kind of, I'm trying to explain this to a kid, right, and she's like, oh, and I'm like, okay, like what, and she goes, So that's what it is.
He's out there helping all these other people, but then when he's done with that, he'll come see me.
I'm telling you, there's some sad parts of this book, like having to tell her those things.
It is so sad because one time she comes up to me and I detail this story where she's like, Just randomly playing and then she like wants to come up and she's like, hey, hey mama, can, can I hear my daddy's voice?
And I'm like, and I want to so bad impersonate him.
I'm just like, no, I'm not going to because me and my friends.
And as you're sitting there, she's watching this video and he's like, I love you.
I love you.
I love you.
Talking about what he had heard from Bo when he wakes up from, you know, this car accident.
And Navy's like looking at the phone.
She's like, I love you.
I love you.
And then like kisses the phone screen, like kisses him and stuff.
And I'm sitting there like...
This huge lump in my throat, like, trying to snatch my phone back so I can go in the other room and cry.
unidentified
Because it's so sad how- It is sad.
Like, I think especially for girls, which is generally for children, like, who crave both parents' love, and to, like, be in the situation where she's like, oh, well, he's really busy helping other people, but eventually he'll pay attention to me.
It's sad the way that she's been treated because you have a child, especially a little girl, that's just deserving of the world and she's being treated horribly by not only her own family, like this public political family that's just not accepting her.
It makes no sense because would it not be a feather in their cap to embrace a child?
I think, I think it's important too with the way the media frames everything without your input.
One of the most important things you probably could do is give your story so that when Navy is older, it's not just going to be how the media framed everything.
And I'd imagine it's all lies or 80, 90% of it is lies.
I'll be honest a lot of the media like I can't read like I get anxiety about like people send me articles and stuff that's how like I found out about the stockings and and things like that.
A lot of times like people will send things to me like there's one night I talk about I get a book in the mail sent to me and it's It's called Joey and it's written by Jill Biden.
I get it in the mail.
Like people send that type of stuff all the time.
And Navy loves reading books before bed.
So I'm going to read this book to her, right?
And this was right after the paternity suit.
And, um, so I put it aside, and before bed, like, she comes, she's gotten out of the bath, and, like, she had, when she was little, she had, like, this, uh, her hair would, like, curl.
Now she's lost all her curls.
I don't know how it happened.
But, um, she gets on my lap.
We're in, like, her egg chair, and I open this book to read her, and I'm telling her, I was like, hey, I was like, this book is, like, it's called Joey.
It's, it's actually about your grandfather.
She's like, oh, okay.
Like, she's excited for it.
First page is the dedication page.
Dedicated to my grandchildren and then she goes on to list them by the name excluding one.
Now I have to read this book with this lump in my throat and this hate in my heart and how pissed I am.
I have to get through this book for my daughter's sake and you know act excited to read it while the whole time like you just want to cry.
Like, it's heartbreaking.
And I get through the book, like, I pause because it was like, something just hits me.
Like, I'm just sitting there looking at it, like, again?
You know, why?
unidentified
Do you ever think about, like, do you ever want to not bring this up to her?
Like, I know, obviously, when she asks about her dad directly, you want to be honest and give her factual information, but also, like, Did you ever think, like, I'm not gonna read this book because I don't want her to have to think about this?
You know, there's, um, like pins, like there was, I had some like vice presidential pins and stuff like that, that like Hunter had given me and, um, all that stuff's like tucked away for her.
And so like that book, for example, is in that drawer, you know?
Okay, so at one point I had heard, and I would love to have you clarify this, you mentioned that you worked as Hunter's executive assistant.
I had heard at one point the timeline was like you had told him you were pregnant, And he had been like, I don't want to deal with this, but also I'll just put you on my payroll.
The payroll came when I was pregnant, but you know, I was doing, I was working as his assistant beforehand and getting paid by like check and stuff, like doing, you know, odds and ends, whatever's needed.
So, um, the payroll didn't come for every, it was like everybody that worked for him, like he had set it up.
Later but um no we was getting paid by like checks and stuff before then.
unidentified
And so what what made you because like not everyone wants to work with someone they're romantically involved with right like when you took this position as the executive assistant were you hoping that this would like were you guys a couple at that point like how did this play into like y'all's
Yeah, off and on a lot because you know as an addict like he's there and then he's not so he's there for like a week and then there's two weeks where you're gone and There's also a story where I talk about like he comes in he's knocking he knocks on the door I hadn't seen him in like three four weeks like it was the longest I hadn't seen him and I talked about how you can't get in touch with Hunter.
Hunter gets in touch with you so So there was a Oh, one night, like, he knocks on my door, and first of all, I'm living in this, like, basement apartment in Chevy Chase in D.C., and I always like basement apartments because if there was, like, a family there, like, I always just felt safer, like, more at home.
So, he apparently, like, had went up and knocked on their front door, and I was like, oh, what a conversation piece.
Like, if he knocked on their front door, They're probably like, Hunter Biden just knocked on our front door and now he's in our basement.
Like, that's crazy.
But he comes down and he knocks on my door and I like open it and I'm like, what the hell?
Where have you been?
And he like, just hugs me, you know, deflects, goes off on his own thing.
He's like, oh, look, I got these socks because I used to love this quote, not all those who wonder are lost.
And it said that it had like mountains and stuff on it.
And I was like, what could have fooled me?
Like, I haven't seen you in like four weeks.
Thought you were lost.
Like, where the hell have you been?
And he just would go missing.
And then, like, pop up.
unidentified
So it was definitely, like, on and off.
Showing up at your house and being like, here's these socks.
Well, and this is the point I want to make earlier, which is one of the worst things of this whole fiasco, I guess you'd say, is the fact that that Navy does not have Secret Service protection because she is the direct granddaughter of the President.
And now with all this Israel-Palestine stuff, they're looking for a way to retaliate against Joe Biden.
Yeah, my attorney, because, and I didn't even know that was a thing until after the paternity was established, like, My attorney was like, she needs to be protected.
Like, now it's out there that she is the president's grandchild.
Like, this needs to be protected.
And I'm like, what?
Like, what?
Then, you know, you get paranoid.
You get scared.
But yeah, so I didn't really realize until writing the book that a lot of things that we go through aren't real normal.
For example, like, at nighttime, you know, a mother's routine is probably, like, get everything ready for bed, go to bed.
Me and Navy sleep barricaded in the same room, and my nightly routine is to, you know, turn off all the lights, lock all the doors, and then I have guard dog sticks that I put up under each door, and I go around, do that.
I check all the security stuff.
I go, we get in the room, and I barricade it up in there.
There's, like, a rifle stored away there.
I've got a Glock, like, in each Night stand, I've got, you know, another shotgun behind the headboard, I've got one hidden in every compartment, like, in, you know, because you don't want your kid to get in there.
Let's pray to God that never happens, but I wonder... Yeah, I was going to say, if something happened to her, I think... Do you think they would try to sweep it under the rug?
unidentified
I almost wonder if they would try to twist it to be like, see crazy Arkansas where all the MAGA extremists live.
I feel like they would only acknowledge it for political gain.
I'm being deeply cynical here, but that seems like the circumstances under which they would be like, how can we benefit off of this?
Yeah, so my dad my dad actually owns a custom gun shop and we shoot like we were shooting skeet before I flew up here like the day before I flew up here and Navy's the puller like she's the one that's fun and we talked about how like like Navy's A master manipulator at her age.
It's bad.
And to the point like, like she does... You think she gets that from her father?
Well, I've, uh, the teacher, like her teacher at one point had told me like, you know, she's advanced, she's doing this, she's great, but we have one problem.
And I was like, what's that?
And she's like, Navy thinks that she's the teacher and she's the boss, and she tells me all the time that she's the boss, not me.
And I was like, oh my God, like I'm mortified, like my kid is so disrespectful.
I'm like, Navy, and then Navy's like, so and so, your dad's here, and she's like, see, she did that because she knows that's my job.
So yeah, and like she would like go around, do things that she knows the teacher is supposed to do before the teacher can do them to say that, you know.
She tries to be, but like, when we shoot skeet, like what I was saying earlier, like, you know, when you shoot, I don't know if y'all, have y'all shot skeet?
I mean, because I can imagine it's already, if you're, you know, not married, pregnant, whatever, it's maybe hard to tell your family, but then on top of that being like, and it's Hunter Biden's child and he doesn't want to acknowledge it.
Well, I mean, they knew whose child it was when I told him I was pregnant because they knew you guys were involved.
Yes.
And they knew that I was crazy about him.
They could tell.
And I actually, like, Did not want to tell them.
And it wasn't because it was Hunters.
It was because I was pregnant out of wedlock and this is like the Bible Belt of the South.
And my dad handled it a lot better than my mom did.
My mom did not handle it very well.
And you know, Joan is Navy's middle name.
She's actually named after my mom.
And yeah, I talk about that a lot throughout the book because that was, you know, when I was pregnant, I got into like this really dark time because I'm pregnant, I'm back in Arkansas, I'm alone, you know, I know that the father of my child is addicted and he's suffering and you know he he's at a point like I saw him suffer so much that he might not you know make it and then you know
He might just be the first son and you're carrying you know that that child and you know your parents aren't real happy you don't have just a I mean your support system my support system was always there and was always my family but it's tense it's tense like there was there was so much that went on that it just like it Broke me and put me in like this horrible place.
So it was like once I got pregnant and I told him that I was pregnant the relationship kind of shifted and like I became like this burden to him and so him just completely out of sight out of mind like just putting me to the side and so over the next month or two like you know we have contact a few times and then that's it.
I don't hear from him anymore and um It was actually said like his, his Porsche at the time was at his parents house in Chambridge for a while.
So like, I thought maybe I didn't hear from him because he was in rehab, but I left and went home to Arkansas because what am, what am I supposed to do?
I don't, I don't really have a support system.
Yeah.
Like, I don't know what to do.
And, um, it, I didn't hear from him again.
unidentified
Did you think that he thought you would just go away?
I contacted him a couple times when I was pregnant.
Nothing.
I contacted him after I had Navy.
Nothing.
And his iMessage, it says it went through.
It obviously went through.
I think they There was some article about it that was sent to me about a text message saying that I told him when the child was born or... You know, I don't know man.
Him being an addict actually makes him more personable and more likable than probably most people, because people have family members that struggle with addiction, so that kind of personalizes him.
I wouldn't say Hunter doesn't care because he also really felt like the black sheep of his family and he felt like he was always a disappointment and a scandal plague son.
He was just so down on himself.
A lot.
I mean, it's interesting because, yeah, I don't think it was so much like disrespect, like, let's go do whatever we want type thing.
Like, he hated the fact that he felt like a disappointment to his family.
unidentified
But it's sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy, right?
Like, people who have struggled with low self-esteem also then say, like, but I can't accomplish anything, so I might as well start smoking.
I mean, I don't think he actively thought, oh, I might as well start smoking, but like, you know, you think you can accomplish it, you think you're a scandal, and so therefore you, like, let your behavior decline.
And then you see that South Park episode where they're like, what is causing these rich and successful men to want to have so much sex with beautiful women?
There was one interview someone brought like there was a bunch of like porn and prostitutes or something on the laptop and Well, it did look like he looked at a lot of porn.
I think that's a part of his addiction.
Isn't doing drugs, doesn't it make you like that kind of?
Well, and I think some people have addictive personalities, like they will do all kinds of things.
Oh, well, that's true, too.
It's the same thing, I mean, people talk about this, like overeating, right?
You kind of get addicted to eating food.
I mean, what I find interesting about Hunter is, We're talking about, like, the loss of his brother.
I think all of us relate, like, losing a close family member, very tragic, can have deep psychological effects.
But it sounds like Hunter Biden has struggled with addiction for a lot longer than Bo's death, right?
Like, this was probably something that was going on when Joe Biden was vice president, when he was a senator.
I mean, this is probably something that has been going on for a long, long time, which makes me wonder about, like, his other children, his first marriage, like, what How long has this been something that he has been dealing with and we can be empathetic to to addicts but also like inflicting on those around him?
Yeah, like you want your child to have this relationship that she so wholeheartedly yearns for.
And you also want to know that he'll be a good influence and a good father, because if he's going to step in just to go missing or just to be a bad influence or something, that's not something you want to just invite.
I mean, I think what you're saying is probably what a lot of parents in America are experiencing because there are, I mean, we have increasing rates of parents who have kids before they're married and also that when they're not together, right?
They don't have, you know, they're not married or they're not in a long-term relationship.
And so that idea that it's like, I don't know the people that my kid is with is a serious fear.
And I can imagine there's even more pressure on you because, not that the Bidens are offering you a relationship, but it's like, oh, but you should let them because they're this powerful political family.
I mean, how much of that factors in into your decision making that ultimately this powerful influential family could theoretically come down and be like, well, we want Navy now?
Well, I don't, It's it's hard because like he said like, you know, he is the president, you know, and you Want to be able just like yeah, like my daughter's spending time with her grandfather.
Who's the president United States?
But that's someone I don't know and I'm very protective when it comes to Navy like I want to make sure she's in the right hands at all times.
Yeah, and so It would be tough but if it's it would definitely take a lot of time yeah, you know to develop some form of relationship and be able to trust that but I I don't know.
No I don't so I don't really talk I don't talk about them but you know I talk about when I stopped watching the news and Navy sees, you know, she's just learned, you know, um, kind of learning who her dad is and stuff.
And then there was, um, a news thing that like came up and, um, they showed the picture of like them at this inauguration and there's the entire family and like Hunter was like holding his, his, his new child.
And, um, Maybe he's like, who, who are those people?
Like, who is he holding?
I'm like, so then you kind of have to go into that explanation.
And she's like, well, did, did they live with him?
Did they?
And I'm like, well, you know, like, you don't, you don't know how to handle it, but you also don't want to lie.
So, you know, when she asked who those people were, and you tell her, Who those people are, then she becomes curious of, you know.
unidentified
Yeah.
And I feel like if you were five and it's like, am I grandfather's the president?
Right?
Like that must be kind of, especially with kids with like strong imaginations being like, well, I wonder what it'd be like if I, if I got to spend more time with them or do this.
Did you say that she had had a zoom call with Hunter?
So, um, after the child support dispute, you know, it's settled.
And, um, that was part of the settlement.
So like, I go, you know, we go into this room and we try to like work everything out, compromise, and he makes a point to be like, he wants this relationship with Navy, and he like even, you know, cried saying, if you don't think, you know, that I've had this guilt and this remorse from the day she's been born, then you don't know me, and I'm like, Did that make you sympathize with him?
I was mad, but like, when I walked into the room, you know, they had, it was just me and him.
And like, when I walked into the room and the attorney shut the door, like, he just hugged me.
And I just, I cried.
Like, I was like, I've been so mad at you.
Like, I've hated you.
I've been so mad.
And like, I got super emotional and, and we sat down and, and we kind of got to talking and he was emotional and telling me, you know, that he's lived with this guilt and this remorse and, you know, he hates it.
And I was like, I'd brought him a box.
Did I tell you that part yet?
So the whole point of me showing up to his deposition, you know most times the other side doesn't show up, but I definitely caught him off guard when I showed up to the deposition.
I brought this white box because it was the Thursday or Friday before Father's Day that he had to give his deposition and so Navy, I told Navy that this father said she could send her dad something because I didn't want her to know that he's in the same state as her and not seeing her.
And then she also drew him this picture where they were potato heads and so they were orange and they looked a lot like another from... So I had to write on there in quotation marks me and my dad as potato heads so she didn't think that it was or he didn't think that it was... So she's already picked different sides?
So I was like oh my gosh you just had to pick the orange crayon didn't you?
But um So I put that in a box and this bracelet she made him that and I can't remember what else she might have made him but those are like the two main points and then I put together pictures of her over the last five years and put it all in a box and
He comes in for the deposition and like I'm sitting there with my attorneys and my my attorney's like off the record my client has something that she wants to give you and so I stand up and I just remember my voice was shaking I haven't talked to this man since I told him you know since we had talked about me being pregnant since I was pregnant so it's been so long and my voice was shaking I was like this might not mean anything to you but it means the world to our daughter and that's why I'm here and I handed it to him I was like she's made you some things in here and there's also pictures of her
Um, I was like, if you want to see more, if you're curious to see more or care, then, you know, there's, I can give you videos or anything else you'd like to see of, you know, her growing up over the last five years.
And, um, I'll be more than happy to like put on USB, email, whatever I need to do.
And he was just like looking at me like, thanks.
Like he thought, I guess that I hated him and which, You do or you don't?
No I don't but I mean I was no but like I was I was mad and there's been times like you know it wasn't until after that that he kind of stops the the deposition for us to talk and you know can we talk just us and it's like yeah where's that been for the last five years?
unidentified
Because I guess that's how I would feel when you say he like hugged you and he's crying he's like I've had all this guilt and it's like but you've had every opportunity over the last five years to not do this right?
Yes.
Every single day that you chose to ignore Navy or to like make me go through your lawyers or whatever else like he could have chosen a different path he didn't like where was the guilt then?
Right right and you know for a long time like I blame that on his addiction which I feel like another that's another part of me just enabling his behavior But, um, we sat down, like, and he even went and got the, had them get the white box and bring it back there, and we went through it together.
And, um, you know, we both sat there and, and cried.
Like, I was like, she prays for you every night.
This little girl who doesn't even know you prays for her father every night.
Like, you, you don't get that.
Like, you don't understand, like, how much she adores and loves you, and she don't even know you.
Like, how wrong is that?
So, uh, Hunter agreed to give several paintings Yeah, so he then, you know, was like, I'm wanting to be in her life.
How do I do this?
Like, how do I just jump into it and not, like, traumatize her even more?
How do I do this?
And so he was like, I got an idea.
What if, he was like, art and family are the two things that helped him recover from his darkest times.
And so he's like, what if each month I can, we can start off by like a Zoom call a month and like, I could like paint with her or like show her like different paintings and she gets to pick a painting every month and we can connect through art and you know start to build that relationship.
So it went from like once a month to like a couple times a month to like a couple times a week they're zooming and or he might call and check on her or something like and her talk to him.
Probably one of the most prominent underpinnings of conspiracy theory is that all of the elites are friends with each other and it's all one big show to manipulate the public.
People are... I wouldn't call it the most prominent, but, you know, in these pockets of the internet, and they're on Twitter, saying that the plan the whole time was to have Trump lose in 2020, to build patriotic fervor so that Trump wins in 2024 and can enact a very pro-America, Patriot Act-style kind of government that people will accept.
This is a conspiracy theory.
When people hear, like, you know, you're, you know, you have this kid, Hunter is not involved, but your dad knows Junior, this is, this is, like, people start drawing lines that aren't there, you know what I mean?
Yeah, I could see that, but see, it actually happened because Dad, um, is, he's really big in the hunting industry, and he's one of the only people in the hunting industry that does what he does, and he, like, created it from the ground up.
What does he do?
He's a custom gun shop, so he does, like, Saracotin and camo dip, and he does, like, uh, For shotguns, like he'll do a waterfowl package.
He'll do a turkey package.
And he's actually Benelli's performance shop.
So they send these guns from Italy to my dad.
He does the performance package on them and sends them back to Benelli who gets them out.
And then he also does, you know, just random customers, you know, but he has that big thing with Benelli and then he does everyone else's guns too.
So like a bunch of like, he's friends with like a bunch of country music stars.
And it just so happens like, He's on this TV show, The Fowl Life, where they go out and they shoot ducks.
And it's like him and his friends who are country music stars and stuff.
And Dad gets invited on it a lot, this Chad Belding.
And he gets invited to it a lot.
And Chad Belding knew Junior and was inviting him on a show.
And Junior wanted to do one of his guns done by my dad and then finds out who it is and was like, It's a small world for sure.
It happened randomly and even when it happened, I wasn't happy about it because it was public.
Dad posted something, I think Junior posted something.
At that time, I hadn't I hadn't talked to Hunter.
We weren't going through a child support dispute yet or anything like that, and it seemed like we were out to get him.
Changing the last name, you know how I talked about earlier, the court documents say that.
That's what my attorney said in the court documents, but I saw it as a peace offering.
We don't hate you.
I wouldn't be offering to let my child have your last name if we hated you.
Here's a peace offering to let you know these are waving a white flag type thing.
And it was taken the complete opposite, as if like it was political warfare and I was doing this to like bring him down.
I was like, that's not the case.
So then after dad starts, you know, going on this hunt and posts about being there with him, I felt like, great, like they really do think like I'm out for political warfare.
Well, you know, we also did like His attorney and them did ask me like prior to during the child support dispute if I was going to write a book or do anything like that and But basically told him like it was still an option I hadn't decided yet, but you know at some point I do want my daughter to know my story and I made that very clear and that was you know over a year ago, but
I don't think he did it in a way to, you know, hope that I wouldn't do this or do that because he, you know, I've had time to process what he said about me in his book.
You know how you get back at them, and I'm not encouraging you to do this because I don't want to say that I'm supporting it, but if you started an OnlyFans, that would blow up the internet and you'd make $10 million in one year.
Actually, in all honesty though, the inversion is like, become a lawyer or a doctor or something, and then show them that their refusal to acknowledge you and, you know, Hunter and your child was incorrect and politically motivated.
They have friendship bracelets, they hang out every day, and they talk about how much they hate the Bidens.
No, I'm just kidding.
So, the other thing that I would wonder about is, like, you were saying Navy's really bright, she's really ambitious, maybe a little manipulative, but, you know, if she becomes, like, a doctor or a lawyer or, like, whatever she does, like, are you worried that eventually the Bidens will be like, Oh, now we claim her.
I could imagine that would have a terrible long-term effect on a child.
Like, you're only good when you've done something that pleases us.
But I think, you know, from the beginning, it's been tough because you have to fight for paternity.
You have to go through a child support dispute.
Everything's public.
And this isn't like, you know, a lot of times they talk about how it can affect a little girl not having her dad in her life and how there's this huge void and whatnot.
But this is also, on top of that, this huge public scandal that's all over the place that she's going to have to read about someday.
And then on top of that, she has to see like, you know, she doesn't have to see because obviously I haven't seen all of it either and I'm an adult, but like the laptop and everything that people have released and all that stuff is, that's going to be hard.
Like I can't, Can't predict what that's gonna be like.
Yeah, I can't.
There's so much that this little girl's gonna have to see, and there's so much she's gonna have to process, and I guess that's another reason why, like, I try to be open with her from the beginning.
I want her to be open-minded.
I want her to accept who she is from the beginning, because I don't, you know, she's gonna have to do that someday.
unidentified
So is your dad the sort of major male role model in her life right now?
Because it sounds like he must be if he's like this, you know, carved out this really interesting niche in an industry and like, you know, doing all this stuff.
So that's, you know, when we were looking at, like, book titles and stuff, um, Sweetly Raw is what one of my co-authors came up with.
She's like, it's just like, It's raw like it's the truth but it's also like you're you're humanizing me there's this this light out there like this humanized light and um you loved him like the story's so much different than what the everyone else portrayed and it's it's not like you're talking bad or out like a hit job or anything like that you're just setting the record straight and so It wasn't.
My family wanted to support my story and they wanted, you know, Navy to know it and they want to support that as much as they can.
So no, they definitely didn't try to hold back.
They're like, it's something that, you know, you should do for your daughter.
unidentified
And so now that the book is coming out, Hunter doesn't talk to Navy on zoom or that?
Cause it's only been like, A month that they've, you know, let it be known that there's a book and I couldn't tell him that I was writing a book because I had signed this like contract where you can't talk about the book.
And so I couldn't tell him and then when I could, you know, I'm gonna give, I've had time to process, you know, the things that he said about me and I'll let him have that time to process my recollection of him.
So, you've been open and honest about how you were partying with him and when, I'm guessing, it's just speculating, when Navy was conceived that Hunter was partying, were you worried about any birth defects or anything?
Because, you know, they say that, like, if you're drunk and you have a baby, it could have issues.
You know, did you think that was going to affect Navy at all?
Like a lot of people say, and we're on YouTube, so I don't want to talk about it, but the occurrence of Down syndrome going up.
Some people blame the pharmaceutical industry, but a lot of people say the older men, when you have a baby and you're older, that sometimes the male semen is a reason.
Could be.
It could be a reason why more kids are born with Down syndrome or birth defects like Kleinfeld or anything.
So, I mean, this is a, this is a guy, Hunter Biden, who lives this life, gets married at what, 22?
He's married for a couple decades, and then at some point everything just seems to break down.
He's married as a kid, his daughter's in his 20s, and all of a sudden leaves his wife, starts hooking up with his brother's widow, then he has another kid, he starts doing all these drugs.
Yeah, I think so I think that all happened actually that that book out there that I had is Someone brought it to me.
It's his ex-wife wrote a book and Detail lean bull and she testified at his The Delaware trial I don't know that it's seen him with like drug paraphernalia Yeah, I don't I don't know the extent of it, but like a friend brought it to me while I've been here like I Well, last night, but a friend brought it up to me that, um, I should read it because she's like, you're, you're describing the same person, just different stories.
The Bidens can't even give their granddaughter a birthday present, a Christmas present.
I mean, I think one day they will acknowledge it.
You know, I'll say this on here, but you did get a little mad because I said, and this is a little insensitive, that Joe Biden's only going to be alive for like 15 more minutes, which are probably longer than that.
Yeah, and I can't, you know, I can't imagine One, having, you know, a child or grandchild and not being in its life.
And then also, kind of like you said, like, the clock is ticking, like, getting older and not developing that relationship because you can't get time back.
Like, the past five years or five years, they will never get with her.
And they've been the best five years of my life.
You know, it's such a great age and so many milestones that have happened, and they'll never see those, you know?
From her first breath to where she is now.
They'll never get those.
unidentified
Do you wish her siblings would reach out?
Because, again, we're talking about his adult children.
They could reach out and have a relationship with her, but they aren't.
Would you want them to, or do you think that would be more confusing for Navy?
Um, you know, I think that that's that's solely like up to them.
And I'm indifferent.
Either way, I guess.
Yeah, with how that with how that goes, because as a mother, you can't have enough people in your child's life to love her and you want people in her life that will love her and be a good influence.
So I mean, it's kind of like, you know, I was saying earlier, if they want to step in and be a good influence, That book that you mentioned, If We Break, that's what it was?
And then how he got kicked out of the Navy for cocaine use.
I mean, this is a guy who needed help a long time ago.
And it's really sad to see this and to hear these stories over and over again.
You know, they get married in their early 20s, they have a kid, and they're living this life and this dude just, for decades, is in this struggle.
And you know, I have to wonder...
I'm just gonna say, this reflects very, very poorly on Joe, on Jill, on the rest of their family for not being able to get this guy the help he needs.
But then if you look at the Burisma scandal stuff, continuing to put him in these positions, like on the board of Burisma, with these deals with, it seems like they literally just did not care.
I mean, you can't be in rehab in 2003 and then have them keep putting him in these positions that make these things worse without helping him.
I can't imagine, you know, being a parent and getting over this crazy, like, horrible tragedy that's happened, but...
Like still being sworn into the Senate like days later just doing it like by their hospital bed.
Like it's that's I would have taken that time off to probably be there with my family.
unidentified
It's very it's a crazy story and I think that was why Joe Biden was so compelling to a lot of people you know the fact that he was this young father with young children who had just lost his wife and daughter.
On the other hand you know All politicians have to make a choice about if they are going to have a career in politics or if they are ultimately going to spend more time with their family.
And I don't think that that, you know, necessarily the choices that Joe Biden made seem to have benefited Hunter.
You know what I'm saying?
Like, he spent his life in politics, he became the Vice President, now he's the President, but it seems like there were people in his lives who needed a level of support that maybe the political career he was pursuing didn't allow him to offer them.
Because I think part of it with addicts is like you can't make them do anything, right?
Like you could maybe get them committed, but ultimately a lot of it is internal.
On the other hand, it is odd that, you know, It seems like, from what I can tell, Jill was pretty much stay at home with them.
He did have people in his life and ultimately it's like when they need Hunter to do something beyond the board of charisma, he can be there.
But when it seems like other parts of his life are in shambles, it's sort of like, let's brush it under the rug.
I mean, what message are you sending to the person involved there?
So I got these little coins that we've been shown off.
Each of them has, on one side, Trump or Biden being inaugurated and the back side is Trump or Biden in prison.
And I'm just looking over at them and I'm thinking to myself, like, how surreal must it be to know that the grandfather of your child is depicted this way?
Well, speaking of tabloid stuff, you guys got high, drank, so I'm sure, you know, when you use cocaine, you talk a lot.
Who did Hunter make fun of?
Who did he bash?
Come on, he never said anything about Jeffrey Epstein's plane, he never said anything about... I mean, he had to have given you inside information, something that's interesting, that sticks out.
You know, the reality is everything's so much more mundane and routine.
And I think because of movies and TV shows, people expect The lives of Trump and all these people to be the craziest thing ever.
And, you know, to a certain degree, there is some truth to it, but overwhelmingly not.
Like, you know, I went and visited Mar-a-Lago for the first time, and Trump is just walking around, he shakes someone's hand, and then he walks away.
It's rather uneventful.
It's fun to watch him speak, but I tell you...
Yes, Trump is flying on private jets and he's the president.
There's very few people who live lives like that.
But I'm willing to bet 99, 95% of Hunter Biden's life is sitting around at the table on the computer looking at X and Facebook and same thing as everybody else going to the grocery store buying milk.
No, I was reading them to him from his laptop because I thought they were funny and he like hadn't really seen them or he'd seen like one or two had them sent to him he's like like he didn't like them and so I was like no like some of them are really funny and so like I get me and one of my friends like we're on his laptop we're like reading and showing it to him and he's just like I thought they were funny because they were always... Go ahead, sorry.
I was going to say it's always like Joe saying something like, oh no, I dropped my ice cream and then Obama being like, it's okay Joe, we'll get you another scoop and things like that.
Well, and there was a thing in the laptops that came out where he had an Escalade that he wrecked and that the Chinese government was going to help fix it.
Yes, that came out in a laptop where they like fixed his fender or something and paid for it.
Any moment with him was, like, always, like, an adventure.
Like, it was always fun.
I say that.
And then, you know, there's also, like, some darker times throughout the book where, like, there's a chapter about a night that, like, I think that he's going to overdose.
And, like, I freak out.
And he's in a Horrible, horrible place, and I'd never seen him like that.
You know, I've seen this man from the first night I'd met him.
Like, I had seen him, you know, drink Tito's by the gallon and do all these drugs, and he was still, like, able to hold a conversation.
He was still fine.
He was still fun.
And then, until one night, like, he's not.
And it was so, so sad, but definitely, like, a wake-up call because Um me and my friends are at this this hotel that he had uh rented out for me for my birthday even though my birthday's in March and this is like September because I'd went home for like the spring and the summer and come back and so I never really had a time to do it.
So he finally does it for me and um he he had left and then he comes back and I've got some of my friends a couple of my friends there and he knocks on the door and so I like go over to it and I open it and he like throws his drink in the air and it goes everywhere and I'm like What the hell?
He's like, you scared me.
I was like, you knocked on the door.
Do you not expect me to open it?
Like, what is going on?
And he, like, walks in.
He's, like, staggering.
And then, like, he's mumbling all this, like, stuff that did not make sense.
And I could tell, like, from the backside, like, something wasn't right.
But then seeing my friend's face, like, they're, like, setting their drink down, like, just staring at him like they were mortified.
And I was like...
And then he, like, falls.
He goes to sit down, like, he just, like, falls from, like, the couch to the floor.
And I, like, I run over to him and I grab his head, like, I'm putting it on my lap.
And I'm like, somebody go get water.
And, like, he lifts his head up.
There was a marble coffee table there.
And he, like, lifts his head up, but he yells, waters of World War II.
And then, like, Pank hits his head on the marble coffee table and just, like, passes smooth out.
Well, yeah, I mean, you can overdose on alcohol, but I just, I mean, he was drinking enough where he didn't overdose, but he was basically probably right on the edge of overdose.
I mean, especially with last night's debate performance, the internet is just on fire over, you know, the debate and all that stuff.
I mean, is there any consideration, have you been thinking about how what you're doing right now, four months before a major election, could have an impact on it?
You know, I mean, I'm sure anything's possible, but at the same time, you know, I don't think it'd have more of an impact of him not embracing a grandchild.
I think that has more of an impact politically than But that's already public, and the media goes off on that anyway, so it's something like, you know, him not acknowledging a grandchild is already so public, so this is just a book about... Have you considered, I mean...
Just, I mean... Like a one night stand type thing and, you know, hardly the dating type, but...
unidentified
That's how Hunter described you, but I'm just surprised... Yeah, well, I mean... And the media picked up on that, or were they defensive?
Because I did feel like there were a fair number of... I remember reading Daily Mail covered, you know, the child support stuff pretty intensely, and it seemed like they were sympathetic to you in a lot of aspects.
Like, here is this guy who is just not acknowledging a child that he fathered.
I mean, it's...
Was there any support or was it all like, she's trash and we hate her?
I'm just wondering, like MSNBC, CNN, they're always going to run cover for the Bidens, so I don't know if it... I feel like they just didn't talk about the story.
Yeah, it's like lying by omission or whatever.
They just don't want to give it any attention.
But I just would imagine, though, that they do want to paint you as like a flash in the pan, one night stand situation.
But that still even makes the Bidens look bad, right?
I mean, even if that is the case, you still have a baby with the president's son.
So it's hard for them to, I guess, spin it.
And, I don't know, I feel like they either demonize you, maybe that makes Joe Biden look better, but just them bringing you up makes Joe Biden look worse.
So, I talk about how, like, I was kind of one of them people that was, like, commitment phobia, but, like, Hunter was, like, the first person that I kind of just, like, fell for and probably would have went all the way, like, But, um, I was also, like, living in the moment, just carefree, and I talk about, like, being detached from it.
Like, I didn't tell Hunter that I was in love with him.
He told me I was in love with him.
Then I'm like, oh, shit, am I?
Like, um, you know, there's a chapter about how, like, we go to New York, and we're there, and it ends with, like, we're actually in the shower, and he says, You know, there's something that's not good.
Like, there's something bad that's going to happen.
I was like, what are you talking about?
He's like, I hurt everybody close to me and everybody that loves me and cares about me.
And he's like, and you found yourself, like, in love with me.
Like, you're in love with me.
And I was like, am I?
And then, yeah.
And so, like, that's kind of how that whole thing went down.
You know, like, I was so detached.
And like, yeah, he was right.
Like, I'd fell for him.
I didn't realize that until he told me.
So I was so, like, detached from my feelings and didn't really understand.
And a lot of that being, like, coming to terms with it was throughout writing this book, where, like, my co-authors, one of them was, like, so, like, how did this make you feel?
Like, you need to put in more of, like, your emotions.
I'm like, eh.
unidentified
This would be a great movie.
Yeah.
So when you told him you were pregnant, were you, like, hoping he'd be, like, OK, we're going to do this together?
Or were you expecting him to be, like, I don't want this to be the case?
No, like you know when I told him he said he was gonna support me in every way and I just wanted him to co-parent and just kind of it didn't I wasn't thinking like okay we're gonna solve this by like having a shotgun marriage or anything like that because I knew also knew the state he was in and I knew that was you know not gonna happen.
But I was kind of hoping that, like, when I saw his Porsche was at Chambridge for so long, you know, and we're thinking, like, maybe he's in rehab.
Like, maybe he's getting clean.
Maybe that's why he's not communicating.
Yeah, and he's not communicating with me.
Maybe he's getting clean so then we can co-parent and have, like, you know, a good relationship with this child regardless of, you know, At that point, it was kind of fading.
Once you fall for somebody, and I'm sure we've all been there, but then you come to a point where enough is enough, and you know that that can never go back.
You'll never get back together.
And that hit while I was pregnant, but at the same time, I wanted him to be there for the child.
Yeah, we know that he was doing business deals with China, yes.
unidentified
Well, we know he was there, but like, when he said it to you, was that the case?
Because I would feel like that's the most difficult thing about this, is like, you had this perception of someone who you thought, you know, you loved, but you had empathy for them, they're going through whatever, now you're having this kid, and then actually also a huge part of not just their story, but their family story, is a lot of, like, lying or covering information, and you're also now experiencing that, right?
The fact that they won't acknowledge Navy, except eventually they'll give a statement to People magazine when it maybe benefits them, like, I would find it really difficult to reconcile this like empathetic view you have of him with the reality that there is a lot of like covert lying involved.
Yes, and you know that's another thing that me and my co-authors talked about throughout the book is like Some of the things he told me, do I want to say that in the book?
I know, so I wanted to make it and go about it in a way that was like, you know, that's what he had told me at least, rather than, you know, I don't know if that's true or not, but that's what Hunter claimed.
You know, even like the house on Chambridge.
You get to a point where it's like, you've been let down so many times.
You know, he said that his parents were leasing the house.
I've been there several times and seen the pictures of Joe and Jill, been in Joe's office and I've seen all this stuff.
I've stayed there plenty nights and I'm writing this book and I'm like, he said that his parents were like leasing it from like these friends of the Obamas, but I don't know if that's true.
Like, but that's what he told me.
So you don't know how to like incorporate that into the story.
I mean, we did and tried to say that, you know, like, At least that's what he told me.
unidentified
Do you think he said something like that to try and impress you?
Like Alex was kind of saying before, you're from a small town, you're from Arkansas, he's trying to be like, look, I'm from this political family and I have money and my dad is Obama's vice president.
Was that how it felt when he was telling you this stuff?
And London, I'm not attacking you when I say this, but let's just be real.
You do want to mend the fences with him.
You're doing all these press tours and you're speaking highly about him, but do you think that this helps your relationship or does this help Navy that you're putting out the book?
I know you said it gets a story out, but you have to know Hunter that if in his book he just mentioned one word, not the dating type.
And if you can't take those stories away, you just kind of got to own them and go with them.
And, you know, I would hope that Hunter's a better man to, you know, not let me speak my story for my daughter and that get in the way of his relationship with his daughter.
I can say something really nice about Hunter Biden.
But if that's the case, at the end of the day, Navy will have her mom's story and she'll see that I gave them every opportunity and that I fought for her in several ways and I think that's my main priority when it comes down to it. - I can say something really nice about Hunter Biden.
Hunter is this dude who's out partying, and you look on TV and the Democrats that you see are very preppy, boring, elitist, and snooty.
Republicans are not much different, don't get me wrong, but you still have some, like, edgy Republicans who are either doing humor, or not even necessarily Republicans, but you've got the libertarian-leaning ones, and so it's few and far between for sure when it comes to politics in general.
But, you know, Hunter is the wild child of this, like, political faction, you know?
unidentified
See, I don't think he seems cool at all.
I think he seems immature, and I think he seems like kind of a loser here.
You know what I mean?
I guess if doing drugs makes you cool, that's one thing, but he doesn't seem like he's partying.
He seems like he's an emotional spiral just kind of numbing with alcohol and crack, and he's neglecting not just Niffy, but it sounds like he was not super in a place to parent the children that he had during his marriage.
He's kind of like partying and... Yeah, he's like at the club with like regular people and, you know, doing really... I've always said that like Hunter could walk into a room full of MAGA supporters that absolutely hate him wearing like, where's Hunter gear?
And spend one hour with them, and by the time he left, like, they might not vote for his dad, but at the end of the day, they'd like him.
But I think that says a lot about Trump supporters.
That if, you know, they're gonna talk smack online, But if Hunter walked in, you'd get a lot of people angry.
He'd talk to them and then they'd be like, I get it.
I don't like your dad.
I don't like it.
I get it Hunter.
I get it.
You know, my point about him being cool is not that anything, I want to stress this, not that anything that is good, like don't doing drugs is not, but it's like, When it makes him real, but what I'm saying is like, I'm not saying he's the coolest guy in the world.
I'm taking the coolest Democrat.
You know what I mean?
Like it's a low bar, but he, he, he is this punk rock degenerate among these, I don't know, squares.
You know what I mean?
I don't know how to describe it, but that's, it's like the one nice thing you can say, He's like a rock star.
It's like, when I think of Hunter, and I think of the Biden family and other Democrats, you have this former head of terror, like director of terror for the CIA, sit down in Brisbane and he's like, let's get the job done.
And Hunter's got sunglasses on because his pupils are dilated.
He's got a burn from a crack pipe.
And he's like, I'm just here because my dad wants me to be.
And you know what I mean?
It's like, it's degenerate.
There's bad things and all of that.
I'm just saying.
You know, he's the wild child.
But I do want to say more seriously, because you asked the question about whether London should be doing this interview.
I think you absolutely should be doing these shows and interviews, because I hate the media.
I hate the press.
And I can give some nuance to that.
There's a lot of good journalists.
It really is true.
I mean, the corporate press is bad.
There are some people in corporate press outlets that actually do a good job, but it's some.
And if you don't come out and do these interviews, tell the story, write this book, the whole narrative is going to be whatever they decide gets the most clicks and the most traffic and supports their political ideology.
And the idea of you trying to be a good mom, trying to raise a kid, and trying to have this family do right is neglected completely when the corporate press just says you're this one-night stand that nobody wants to date, and they make it look like, you know, They paint you as this nasty mistake instead of a human who was in a relationship with a guy who had a kid.
And that's the reality of it.
And if you don't tell your story, they tell it for you.
I want my daughter to know that she can always stand up for herself and tell her story.
Stand ten toes down.
I want her to know that her mother did that.
Despite whatever narrative was put on her, however things were portrayed and whatever was done, I want my daughter to know my story and know that I did it for her.
Like, so, let's say you don't do any, you don't write any books, there's no interviews.
For political reasons, the media will try to make you out to be the bad guy every step.
They're gonna, the writings are gonna be like, Hunter Biden is trying to do right, but this woman... Now, you've got to come out, you can't let them control the narrative like that.
It's political, and it's financial, right?
These companies want to make money, they want to get clicks, they're not interested in what the truth is, they're interested in how they can spin things to benefit themselves and generate traffic from it.
I think the other thing is overarching, like, we need to be a culture that believes families are important and that if you father a child, if you're a mom who's gonna have a baby, like, that child has to become a priority and be important.
And maybe in your case, like, it's not possible to have, like, a traditional stable family.
On the other hand, like, it has to be about Giving children the best start that we can by providing them love and support.
I think that's the thing that bothers me the most about American culture right now, which is like we treat children like they are kind of weird burdens or obstacles.
I mean that's really what bothered me a lot about the fact that the Biden family wouldn't acknowledge Navy at all.
Like I get maybe your circumstances don't allow for you guys to like get married and raise her together, but it doesn't mean that she should suffer and be treated like this weird black sheep, especially if he told you that's how he felt his entire life.
Well, you know, and also like he had said that like, um, the whole situation with his mom was like, you know, he, he, he even claimed, you know, to me many times he thought he had mommy issues because of that whole tragedy.
Child support could get cut off, and if he gets convicted on the tax issue, this could disrupt the ability to actually have Hunter in the life of your child, and also his monetary obligations.
To me, I think my main concern is, you know, I don't want to have to sit my child down and tell her that, you know, her father's going to prison and, you know, won't be able to talk to her for a really long time or however that goes.
I don't know how I'd play out, but... I mean, for my daughter's sake, I wouldn't, but... You think he should be pardoned by his dad?
Well, I mean...
I don't know, you have to think about it.
Accountability.
I'm big on that.
But also, how many people have been charged with the same gun charges that he has?
It's tough because the political element is that, you know, the way they're going after people like Peter Navarro and Steve Bannon, nah, Hunter Biden could go to prison same as everybody else.
But I think in terms of precedent, What actually would be very beneficial is for both of those cases in which he's being charged to actually be appealed to the Supreme Court and then overturned at the court level to set precedent, because he's being charged with self-incrimination.
He's being charged because he lied on the federal background check form that he wasn't a user of an illicit substance when he actually was.
And that violates the Fifth Amendment against self-incrimination to the government.
So, I actually don't think he should be charged for that.
I don't like the idea of someone using heavy drugs and being armed, like having a gun.
But I suppose the issue is, you know, the use of the gun and the drugs at the same time.
And then for the tax issue, it really is granular.
They bring all of these different elements together to make it become a crime.
Like, he was pulling profits without paying his taxes.
He owed taxes and didn't pay them.
Each of those things on their own is, you get a letter from the IRS saying, pay us the money you owe us, but they already did that and then he still didn't pay, so they're coming after him.
I think there'd be good precedent to be set on, our tax system is broken and complicated, confusing, and the idea that One person forgetting to pay their taxes can be charged as a crime, and the other person can be just treated as a, whoops, now you owe us a fine.
I don't like the discretion that the IRS can just have to make the accusation against you.
So, just in those regards, from a bigger picture thing, pardoning, probably not.
You know, there's an element of like, it's your dad, you don't get your kid out of jail.
But I would love to see those charges challenged at the Supreme Court and then overturned on constitutional grounds.
I'm fine with drugs being illegal, especially crack.
I'm fine with someone doing it, getting charged.
I think someone like Hunter and many of these people who are suffering from addiction need mental health help, and putting them in jail doesn't do anything.
So I don't know if that solves it, but...
Yeah, I kind of agree with that.
I want to see him beat these charges.
Mostly the gun one.
The tax one's more complicated, but the gun one he should beat for sure.
Yeah, well, Yeah, and that puts me in a tough spot because it's like, you know, you're also almost endorsing your daughter's unacknowledgement publicly.
But it doesn't seem like you like Joe Biden for his policies.
It seems like, you know, because you have this connection to his family, you want to be supportive and respectful.
And like, potentially, you know, if he's an eight year president, there could be benefits to your daughter.
But it doesn't sound like you're like, It doesn't sound like you're that interested in politics generally, specifically supportive of the job he's done as president.
I'm like, y'all can sit here and go back and forth, and I'm just trying to catch on because there's a lot that I don't know.
I should probably get more involved.
That's part of, you know, my daughter walking around the house.
We can't have the news on.
You know, I can't stay in tune with the news as much as, like, I used to, and that's been, like, heavy, like, the last, like, three years, especially with her knowing who her dad and stuff is.
You have to be careful, like, of what you watch, because, like, I mean, we'll be, like, in the nail salon one time, and she's like, Mom, look, is that my grandfather?
Someone wanted me to name it, like, My Recollection or something, like, to go along.
But it was just, honestly, like, what people don't see is, like, The real me, like, in the shadows, like, I've stayed in these shadows for so long.
I've not spoke and told my story and, like, coming out of the shadows and now, like, telling my story and having, one, like, having to get on, like, talk shows and stuff like that.
My anxiety skyrockets.
It's hard for me to come out of the shadows.
So this is also me embracing it and coming out of the shadows.
That's why it's called Out of the Shadows, because it's a lot.
People think that this is something that I might enjoy, talking on these conservative newscasts and stuff where they're asking me these questions.
And you always get scared that you're just going to say the wrong thing or maybe the right thing.
