The Culture War #46 - Exposing The Epstein Files, Elite Traffickers w/Mike Cernovich
Host:
Tim Pool
Guests:
Mike Cernovich @Cernovich (X)
Luke Rudkowski @WeAreChange (YouTube)
Phil Labonte @PhilThatRemains (X)
Producers:
Lisa Elizabeth @LisaElizabeth (X)
Kellen Leeson @KellenPDL (X)
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Several years ago, maybe a decade ago, there were many people online that were trying to warn us that a powerful group of elite individuals were trafficking underage women and engaging in untoward activities.
And oh boy, is that putting it lightly, but we'll start off a little family-friendly here.
It was a conspiracy theory, they said.
The media mocked and insulted anybody, and the funny thing about it is, despite the fact that the documents have come out, not all of them, but a handful of the documents pretending Jeffrey Epstein, the fact that he was arrested, the fact that Ghislaine Maxwell was arrested, the fact that people in his circle have, let's just say, their lives ended in prison, including Epstein himself, even with all of that, we now know that the trafficking is a fact, not a theory.
There are still attempts in the media to insult anyone Who is arguing that powerful global elites are engaging in the trafficking of underage women and worse still, there are many similar stories, not necessarily the same at a lower level.
We see with the with the southern border, but with all these documents that have started to emerge.
There are redacted names, there are old stories resurfacing, and it's causing some confusion.
Recently, accusations against Bill Clinton came to light, but in fact they came to light a while ago.
And so many news reports came out and said accusations against Bill Clinton, but oh wait, within a few minutes many of these journalists said actually this woman had recanted her accusations.
So let's talk about Who was Epstein?
What was he doing?
Who was in his inner circle?
And, of course, these documents got released thanks mostly, I would say mostly, to Mike Cernovich.
You filed the Freedom of Information Act.
I want to make sure we get it all right, so I'd rather just throw it to you, and we'll talk about how all these documents get released, what do they mean, what's to come.
Today on the show, we've got Phil Labonte of All That Remains.
Let's just jump right in and start from the beginning.
When this story breaks that, you know, a lot of people are saying the Epstein client list is coming out.
Not true.
Court documents related to a defamation lawsuit from, I believe it was Virginia Giuffre against Ghislaine Maxwell, but it included many court documents from the Epstein case and all these things.
Let's just, this story went nuts.
I mean, in fact, funny enough, it's one of our biggest Timcast IRL podcasts when we're discussing these documents being released.
We'll start from the beginning and then we'll get into what Epstein was doing.
And I'll start by asking you, Mike, how does this begin?
That's what's weird is the documents that were recently released were just more redactions of the documents that should have been unsealed four years ago.
I want to say 2019.
Was when a lot of this stuff started getting unsealed, but the way it came about was that, you know, there are two types of lawsuits, or there's two types of cases, criminal and civil, right?
Criminal, Jeffrey Epstein was indicted, charged, he ultimately pled guilty to soliciting a prostitution.
That's what they got him on.
And there's no way to get those files.
You can't go in and demand to see the criminal file of Jeffrey Epstein.
So that was all lost to history.
Everybody thought, well, how can we get something?
How can we pull on a thread?
What can you really do?
And then my lawyer, Mark Randazza, emailed me and said, this is weird.
And it's part of a bigger trend.
The reason it got on his radar is If you sue in court, in public court, everything is supposed to be public.
Other than social security number, if there's a credit card number, if there's a minor involved, maybe you redact the name, but the allegations, the counter-arguments are all supposed to be public.
And he just showed me the docket and when you pull up the files that was just, I think we did that on your last show, it was just all black.
You wouldn't believe unless you saw it.
It's a 50 page motion.
Black paragraph, black paragraph, black paragraph, blacked out.
And we said, okay, well maybe this is a way to start pulling on the thread by going indirectly via the civil case.
So even though the civil case wasn't against Jeffrey Epstein, it wasn't, Victims of Epstein versus Epstein.
It was Virginia Gouffre, I think she's Virginia Roberts now, versus Ghislaine Maxwell because what had happened was Virginia Roberts had said Ghislaine Maxwell was trafficking women with Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell said she's a liar.
The woman said, oh okay, I can sue you now for defamation because you're calling me a liar, which that in itself is kind of a another trend in the law that maybe isn't a great one like if somebody calls you a name you can't clap back or suddenly you're you're defaming that person But anyway, that's how they got the case filed.
Everything was redacted, and we thought we'll move to intervene.
It's called a motion to intervene and unseal because we're not a party.
So if you're worried about the technicalities, the parties are the people suing and being sued.
We're a third party.
I filed it through my media corps, Cerno Media.
We're seeking to intervene and unseal, so we're not a party to the lawsuit per se because we're not trying to get money.
We're not trying to Maneuver than the lawsuit, but we are trying to get the document so you follow what's called a motion to intervene Okay, let me put my nose in this and then a motion to unseal the documents.
We followed that we thought it would be pretty easy honestly, we thought it'd be a pretty easy and I Don't want to say cheap, but not expensive it got really expensive And we thought it would be, okay, we'll get the documents.
It'll cost 10, 20 grand, which, you know, it's a lot of money, but, you know, the media company can absorb it.
And it ended up not being easy at all or inexpensive at all.
Because we could get into the kind of weeds of the latest developments.
But I think giving a full perspective to everyone here about his start, his rise, all the mystery money that came in from essentially nowhere.
Forensic accountants can't account for all the money that was just kind of dropped in his bank account that a lot of banks just disregarded a lot of the rules and regulations for.
But within this fact that he was doing it, there's conspiracy theories about who he was working for, where this money came from, and what was really going on.
One of the leading and most prominent theories is that he was engaged in a blackmail extortion scheme where he would bring in these guys They'd think that they were in a safe place with a trusting pedophile they could engage in their disgusting activities with, and then he'd be like, oh, we filmed you, by the way, and now we own you.
This is what Dershowitz actually argued, that he was the founder of the Clinton Global Initiative that did a lot of work in Haiti, as one of the Clinton associates was also caught, literally, and charged for human trafficking inside of Haiti as well.
So there's a lot of strange connections like this that we could make here.
But when we look at his start, I think it's fair to say that it was Donald Barr who gave Jeffrey Epstein his start at the Dalton School.
Yes, Donald Barr.
He was the father of Bill Barr.
A lot of people claim that these individuals have connections to, of course, Intel agencies, as Bill Barr essentially ran the cover-up of the operation for someone that his father gave the starch to in this school, when everyone was kind of questioning, why is Jeffrey Epstein in this highly astute institution of learning, when he shouldn't have been there in the very first place?
So that's where we first kind of hear of Jeffrey Epstein.
And then, of course, he's connected to other individuals, like Elaine Maxwell, that are connected to the Maxwell family.
The Maxwell family also is connected to a lot of espionage.
Robert Maxwell, Ghislaine Maxwell's father, was also connected to, of course, allegedly three intel agencies, the Mossad, the KGB, and the U.S.
CIA.
He was allegedly a triple asset, but predominantly an asset of Mossad and connected to many Israeli prime ministers and Israeli defense ministers as well that also were around Jeffrey Epstein.
So there's a lot of individuals here that are intermixed here.
There's also, of course, Les Wexner.
There's also, of course, Jean-Luc Bernet.
And all these individuals played a very significant role here, and all of them are in the kind of world of espionage agents, double agents, and even, in some cases, triple agents, like Robert Maxwell, who also mysteriously met his demise in a boating accident and then was never heard from again.
The Maxwell family is absolutely fascinating in the work that they do.
Not just Ghislaine, but Ghislaine's sisters as well.
How they're connected to, of course, big tech social media, how they're connected to FBI, how they're even connected to human trafficking databases that they helped set up.
It's all a huge web here that we could dissect in many different ways.
But Mike, I don't know if you looked at any of these specific instances yourself and if you find one more fascinating than the other.
The Dalton school, I just, there's a bunch of different narratives I think with the Epstein thing where it's easy to get lost in the sauce and then it's easy to, maybe, it's like a choose your own adventure in a way that maybe Something for everyone.
Yeah, because there's multiple stories to Epstein.
There's the story of Epstein who was just an effective serial networker who had money, and then this random wife of Bill Ackman.
She's not random, she's an academic or whatever, but he's having meetings with everyone, so now anybody who's ever had a meeting with him is somehow connected to Jeffrey Epstein, even though when you look into that thing, he did philanthropy.
So then you wonder, The philanthropy, I think, is interesting because you wonder, was that part of the recruiting people for the sex acts?
Or was he just an intellectual pervert?
Right?
There was a Reid Hoffman email, too, that, I don't know, really didn't get that much coverage, actually.
I think the Wall Street Journal broke the story that Reid Hoffman was a networking buddy of Jeffrey Epstein.
Reid Hoffman, of course, is a big, prominent donor, big, prominent Democrat donor.
I think he's actually backing Nikki Haley now, and for whatever reason, that flew under the radar.
We're trying to understand someone like him.
You can think, well, what part of him was just a networker?
Hey, I'm into philanthropy.
Because you can be a pervert and have intellectual interests, right?
Whenever we talk about figures who have done evil, We act as if well if you do evil then this is what an evil thing looks like and the evil thing only does evil things and it's just like Okay, but you know, what are the things about him that may have been sincere legitimate and how did that snare people?
Who perhaps didn't really know, not that I want to defend Steven Pinker or these guys, these guys aren't my friends or whatever, but if you're just trying to be honest and really figure out the situation, you would want to think, well, who's a casualty of it?
You know, collateral damage.
You'd probably say, well, probably Neil Oxman was, Bill Ackman's wife.
Probably Pinker was, even though there's that picture of Pinker with Epstein.
So every time Pinker runs his mouth about Trump or everyone else, It's kind of funny, even though maybe that's playing a little hardball, but they play hardball too, but if you're just really trying to understand the truth, right, the truth of the matter, you'll say, well, I don't think Pinker was on the island.
So then you want to filter those people out, and then you want to say, well, what were they doing on the island, and was it...
Barely legal.
Was it three-year-olds?
Was it 17-year-olds?
Was it 21-year-olds?
What was it?
I do know there were emails where a guy referred to the women he liked as Snow White.
So these financiers... Yeah, you can look that one up.
Snow White, Jeffrey Epstein.
So they had codenames.
So there were a lot of guys into a lot of kinky things and them getting away with it, I think, is my bigger problem in all of this because He was clearly running a brothel, right?
Whether it was a black male operator, you know, see, what is the known?
The known is he was clearly running a brothel of some kind of women, of adult women, because some of the women were adults.
A lot of the women who have sued had troubled backgrounds and they were a product of this debased society that we live in.
But, you know, there were some of age, there were some just underage, and then there are probably some much younger.
So then you want to kind of like cost segregate things and say, well, which ones deserve the most attention?
And all of them obviously do.
But the really young ones, you would want to say, well, there was obviously an infrastructure to bring them in.
How did they bring them in?
And they didn't.
So to circle all that back, sorry to everybody listening for that monologue, but the reason that's all relevant Back to the legal perspective is when Jeffrey Epstein was indicted, immediately first thing I did is I read the indictment.
That's how the difference between like these fake lawyers on Twitter and then people who actually have done real work is the first thing you do is you read the indictment.
And I read the indictment and I said, you got to be kidding me because the indictment was The most narrow behavior that you could charge Epstein with.
So the indictment said, okay, in 2002, 2005, 2009, Jeffrey Epstein was paying these 16-year-old girls to give him massages, and he asked them to be... And the reason for a narrow indictment is so that way it doesn't spread to other people, correct?
That way, yeah, exactly.
So the reason they said, we have to charge him with something, because the documents were coming out.
So the timeline is, if you look at, if you really want to You know, hate the government more.
The timeline is this.
I sue to get the documents.
We lose.
We go up on appeal.
The Miami Herald a year or two later joins.
They're on appeal.
So now we're in a joint appeal, right?
We're in a case together with the Miami Herald.
Who would have known?
So my lawyer's arguing, Miami Hale lawyer's arguing, the Second Circuit says, well, of course we're going to give the documents.
Why did this take four years?
Which is, by the way, the law.
That's why my lawyer emailed me.
We figured, yeah, it'll cost 10, 20 grand because this is so... Because it's routine and because it's something that happens fairly regularly.
Yeah, and it's so clear.
It isn't a debate.
It's like if you sped, if you're speeding, you were like, well, you were speeding.
You know, well, I shouldn't be pulled over.
Well, it doesn't matter, right?
So then the Second Circuit says, well, of course we're going to release these documents.
I want to say two days later, I want to say that was a Friday.
And then I want to say on Sunday Epstein was indicted, but someone can check that timeline.
But we're talking 42 to 72 hours.
Because then SDNY, the Southern District of New York, the prosecutors realized, oh, this stuff is going to be public.
This is a problem.
We gotta do something.
Well, what are you gonna do?
Well, the way anybody who knows the Southern District of New York, the way they operate is they overcharge you.
They charge you with everything.
Okay, on this trip, you wrote off a coffee, and that really wasn't a business expense because you were with your friend, and that wasn't business.
And they hit you with everything.
When you read these indictments, they're lengthy.
It's an intense experience, right?
So then you read the Epstein thing and it's the exact opposite.
So what they could have said, because remember they picked him up on his way back from France.
So what they could have said was, okay, we're seizing your jet, we're seizing your Paris property, New Mexico, the island, your West Palm Beach place, New York, and we're going to have raid teams on site.
Because we're charging you with, and they didn't have to name the whole network, you get to charge them as an unindicted co-conspirator.
So the way it should have said was United States versus Jeffrey Epstein and co-conspirators 1 to 100 to be identified at a later date.
Yeah, RICO's harder to make, but the Man Act is the easiest thing in the world.
So you can look these up on the DOJ website all day.
If you, most people don't know this, because the age of consent in the U.S.
nationwide is 18, but it varies by state.
So if you're in a state where it's 16, and it's 18 in another one, and you say, oh, you know, your 17-year-old girlfriend is going to go to where it's legal, well, guess what?
You commit a federal crime.
This is all easy stuff.
This is the lowest hanging fruit in the world, right?
The easiest case in the world.
So it's called the Mann Act, M-A-N-N-A Act.
So, What you would have done if you actually wanted to end this stuff is you'd have indicted him and his co-conspirators to be identified at a later time.
So they're called unindicted co-conspirators.
You'd have raided every property and it would have been a whole production.
Every step of the way, there's so many anomalies here that don't add up and don't make sense.
I don't want to give anyone the benefit of the doubt.
I want to hear from everyone directly.
I don't care if it's the Weinsteins.
I don't care if it's Louis Black.
I don't care if it's Kevin Spacey or Chris Tucker.
I want to know from every last one of them, I'm not going to say, oh, they were just hanging out or having a meeting here.
We know so little.
We know so little about this that I think, and I would kind of disagree with you here, Mike, just a little bit.
I would say, no, we got to call all of these people out because then they could come forward and explain themselves, because otherwise we're not going to get any other kind of larger public disclosures unless there's something else happening behind the scenes, which a lot of people speculate is happening now.
That does the opposite, though, because When there's so much collateral damage, you disincentivize people to want to come forward because they're like, Oh God, you know, like, so imagine, you know, imagine you're, I think, what is her name?
Nellie Oxman or whatever.
Imagine you're Bill Ackman's wife.
I don't have sympathy for Bill Ackman because you know, whatever.
It's nice to see him writing as long articles and I like them.
But imagine you're, you're a woman, you're a designer, you're a PhD and a donor says, Hey, we're having a dinner.
This guy wants to fund your lab.
You're gonna go to the dinner.
You don't have a whole team, dude.
I quit taking selfies with people because a couple bad actors would take them with me.
And then it's like, oh great, now for the rest of my life I have a picture with this person.
So whenever I see people in real life, I'm like, ah man, okay, I will, but you can't do anything.
And it's a vibe check, too, because if the vibe's off, I'm not taking it.
So just how I live my life, but these people don't know to do that.
Hey, you can't just go to dinner with anybody who invites you to dinner.
Why not?
Well, because the person might be, you know, some kind of front man for something.
I mean, there's Bill Gates that actively engaged and participated and went to all the meetings, even when his wife told him specifically she wants him to stop hanging out with him and he wouldn't do that for her.
And then there's, you know, other levels where, you know, We don't have to just trial everyone before and find guilty before the trial, but I think this larger notion of, hey, we don't know what's really going on here.
We have to make this a bigger issue.
We have to ask the questions here.
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What really happened here in a pointed way is something that I think needs to be But to Mike's point, Trump just ran into this when he went to dinner with Milo and with Fuentes, and Ye was there.
He went there because Ye was there, and then Fuentes ends up being there, and then the media makes a massive story about it.
But I mean, I think it's pretty obvious.
Most people would say that Trump doesn't know who Fuentes is, but I understand his point there.
It's like, you end up at a place, and if you don't know who's there... Well, they did it to Elon and Trump, right?
Like that's why, like, I don't go to public events because I know that, that the FBI will send some MK ultra person that's then, dude, I, this, this happened.
There was a mass shooter and, um, You know, I don't want to go down that rabbit hole.
There was a mass shooter, and then the media started saying, oh, he was affiliated with you.
And I said, wait, who?
And I looked it up, and I go, no, as a matter of fact, it wasn't.
I got a bad vibe from the guy, so I told him, you're a stalker, leave me alone.
And then I found out the FBI had visited him before, and he went on a mass shooting.
I can tell you guys this on a different stream.
So I know for a fact that they send people, their little MKUltra subjects, to me, to attach to me, to then use that as a, because I don't, I'm so boring now.
I don't barely, you know, coming out here, you guys have been asking me to do stuff.
James O'Keefe got raided for a diary that we now know is real.
Because I remember when people were talking about the diary, I thought it was fake.
I said, oh, this is another trap.
They're trying to trap us so that they can sue us.
And I was like, oh, wait, that thing was actually real.
That should be a bigger story.
That's the real world.
That's the big boy criminal justice world.
Jeffrey Epstein did not get the big boy criminal justice treatment.
He got, we got to do something.
Okay, we're going to get him for massage, which again, get him for that, right?
I don't want somebody to be like, oh, Cernovich is downplaying.
Shut up.
You know, some idiot watching, right?
I'll say something like that, but no, get him for that, obviously.
But you get them for conspiracy, you raid all the properties, you have your press conference, we've taken down an international... What prosecutor, what federal prosecutor doesn't want that headline?
What doesn't want that press conference?
We just took down an international sex trafficking ring and we're putting the... They don't, dude!
So, all these rabbit holes that are interesting and stuff, and I've gone down them too, myself, like, well, who is this market maker?
Who is this prime broker?
It's not like you're not using E-Trade or whatever.
You're not using Charles Schwab for the kind of trades that Epstein was allegedly doing, was even making them, right?
So there's so much there that we do know.
So we know for a fact That the way a case would have been charged if they wanted Epstein for real is they would have charged him under the Mann Act and similar statutes.
They would have gone after him aggressively and they didn't.
And that tells you that whatever happened was at the government level or at the level above government.
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And I mean, this isn't anything that's new, obviously.
As soon as Epstein was arrested, people were like, well, this seems odd.
And even if they didn't articulate the circumstances the way you did, Everyone kind of knew that, like, the government really likes to overcharge people.
The government likes to have a lot of options, and that's really what it boils down to.
The feds or the prosecutor, they want to have as many options, they want to put as much pressure on you, so that way you'll give up people that you were, that possibly were committing crimes with you or whatever, and when you see that that wasn't the case with Epstein, it was, you know, most people were like, oh, this is obvious, which is why the meme of Epstein didn't kill himself came out, you know, and... I mean, there's a lot there, too.
Which, as a lawyer, I mean, so here's the wild thing about my legal background is Everything happening to J6 people is actually normal if you're charged with crimes.
It's not normal to charge protesters.
But no, this is actually the way the system works.
Ask any lawyer if they want to be in the criminal system.
Dude, first of all, I've never sued anybody because you don't even want to be in the civil litigation system.
Right, you don't even want to be in a lawsuit at all, this Epstein thing, because things can spiral out of control.
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That's why big companies so frequently will settle, just because it's a headache and a hassle to deal with.
Not just that, but there was another incident where, according to some of the witnesses, he was beat up, but they claimed it was a suicide attempt, so they put him in the suicide ward with one of the most violent prisoners there, an ex-police officer who murdered a whole bunch of people.
He also recently kind of passed away from COVID, so his stories aren't really shared as well.
So, when we look at that particular incident, specifically in the jail cell, we had Epstein's brother come out on Tucker Carlson and detail the long number of anomalies that happened specifically when it came to the reporting, the handling of this alleged life-taking and how all of it topped down, especially from the medical examiner, especially when it came even to the medical reports and the documentation of how everything was handled.
Everything was done wrong.
They weren't supposed to move the body.
They weren't supposed to change the clothing that Epstein was wearing.
They were supposed to document everything that happened.
They never did any of that and failed every single step of the way to the point where they were like, oh, there's no surveillance cameras.
Bill Barr came out saying, yes, there are surveillance cameras.
I saw them.
He definitely did take his own life.
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In a place where they have total control.
Not like this happened out on the street where you had to worry about people walking by and you had to have people make sure that no one touches the crime scene.
The behavior is totally... If you ever have a loved one who's been in the institutions, There's no like book that people like Epstein's brother.
I'm I don't think Epstein killed himself so first of all I don't think he killed himself obviously wouldn't have because he had cards to play and everything about his life is If there's one thing about Jeffrey Epstein and anything you know about the world and humans, this person is not the person who kills himself.
Right?
So one, he didn't kill himself.
Clearly, I based that on what?
Just extensive dealings with human beings and the character arc of a person.
You see what happens to agents and double agents all the time.
Robert Maxwell, the father of Ghislaine Maxwell, who was also an intel asset, who also died mysteriously, and a body was never found after a boating accident.
So when it comes to this kind of larger, you know, actions that were being committed here, I'm not giving any benefit of the doubt.
I'm not going to try to explain it unless there's an overwhelming amount of evidence showing me like, yes, this actually did happen.
You still have to have a mental model though, right?
That's where, not you Luke specifically, but that's where the internet people kind of drive me nuts.
You've lived, you've experienced reality, you've met people, you've seen people.
In no world does Epstein kill himself.
In no world.
There's no world where somebody who has cards to play, who has resources to fight, who's been a player his whole life, who has all these connections, there's just no world where that person says, you know what I'm gonna do?
I'm gonna kill myself.
If I actually saw a real Jeffrey Epstein suicide video, and that really happened, that would upend my understanding of reality.
You're not giving the benefit of the doubt to people, necessarily.
You're making assumptions.
You're saying, you know, you have an operating model of the world, and then you have the knowns and the unknowns, and then you have the areas that are worthy of interrogating and which ones aren't, and the areas that are worthy of interrogating and aren't being interrogated, and I don't think ever will.
is why was he charged under the Mann Act?
Why wasn't there simultaneous raise on the properties?
Well there is a logical explanation for that.
The logical and really only explanation for that is this was operating at the government level.
Epstein was clearly at the government level or a level that exists above the government that whatever that is you get in the realm of the weird you know the weird stuff which I'm okay with but then it gets a little bit too weird So, everything that happened is pretty logical.
You say...
Because you do the world that you can control and you can't control.
So nobody saw that Mike Cernovich was going to file a motion to intervene in Unseal and Epstein, right?
And they denied my motion.
They just kind of buried it.
The media buried it.
Nobody cared.
Oh, he's that crazy guy, right?
Oh, isn't that crazy guy?
All right.
Who gives a shit?
Can't be real.
Then nobody saw the Miami Herald was going to join in.
So you always have these X factors that upend your perfect little precious plan Can you tell us who did this?
Who warned you?
"Oh God, we got the Miami Herald in." 'Cause I was told personally that I was gonna be killed over the Epstein thing if I didn't quit talking about it.
So if you look at my timeline, you can see that I filed the suit, I mentioned it a couple times, and I didn't mention it, so Miami Herald did. - Can you tell us who did this?
Or you don't have to get into it if you can. - A person in the intelligence community, 'cause remember, a lot of this was happening in the Trump era, and they said, "We've overheard chatter, and you need to just back away "from this and stay away from this." And at the time that seems alive.
Oh yeah, yeah, this is before the record was sealed and everything.
So the logical explanation is he was clearly, he was operating at the government level, most assuredly.
That there's no, there's no question about that.
The only question is, is there, was it the sovereign level?
Because people forget.
You know, we always talk about billionaires.
There are trillionaires.
You know, we forget about that.
There are trillionaires in this world.
So there's a level, like if you watch Game of Thrones or whatever, the Iron Bank, there is some kind of Iron Bank weird thing that's shaping affairs that we don't really know about.
It was a massage parlor in Boston and many other prominent cities all throughout the United States that had secret surveillance cameras and was going to prominent individuals and then giving them a happy time and then filming it and then using it for blackmail and extortion purposes.
What you're gonna say though is I think is if you watch the press conference all the prosecutor says is we know all of you went there.
Yeah, so it's the most ominous press conference you can imagine where they're like, oh yes, we do know individuals in medicine, and in defense, and in finance, wink wink, nod nod, get on board, get on board or else we'll go through this.
Sometimes, you know, looking at the state of politics today, you wonder why it is that someone would say something so obviously wrong and lie.
You see these journalists, they put out a story that is just so The inverse of reality to an obvious degree.
Now, I think for a lot of these people, I would refer to them as just the banality of evil.
They march along and march in lockstep with whatever the machine tells them to do.
But I think a lot of these higher profile individuals who are on the authoritarian and what I would describe as the more evil side of things, likely have a scenario where A prosecutor just looks into a crowd and says, I know what you did, and the person's like, oh, crap.
And then the word gets out, here's what you're supposed to be saying, and they decide, I'll just play ball.
unidentified
Yeah, and I guarantee it's extremely effective for a lot of people, too, because the number of people that are Dabbling in these types of indiscriminate behaviors.
It's not just a few.
It's probably the majority of... It's everywhere, and they get off of it.
But I'll give you guys a more, I suppose it's all recent context, but You don't even need a phone call from an intelligence agent or officer or a politician or some mafioso guy because people know how to behave.
And I'll give you an example.
Before January 6th, there were high-profile commentators who were going on social media and cheering for Things like kicking the door in, storming the castle, storming the building, shutting it down.
They're on video just going like, yeah, we're gonna do this, this is what we're gonna do.
Well, if you look at his Twitter account, he wasn't cheering for J6, but on Joe Walsh's Twitter account, he was all in for Trump, and he's like, if Trump wins on the 6th, Then things are fine.
But if not, then I'm grabbing my musket.
Are you with me?
And he tweeted that out.
He was supporting Trump, and now he's the most anti-Trump guy.
You know it's because he was talking, he was saying things that were slightly inflammatory, and so now he's paying penance to the establishment.
I'm saying my bad, and I'm a good, I'm gonna, you know, keep my mouth shut.
You see how they lie about Many of these people who were convicted on January 6th.
Like, if you're violent and you're rioting, by all means, you get criminally charged for that.
That's normal.
But there are a lot of people who showed up after the fact, were walking around, were let in by police.
They're lied about, thrown in solitary confinement.
20 years for Enrique Tarrio, not even present in DC.
He was not even in DC.
But now there are these high-profile commentators.
And, you know, I'm not familiar with the example you've given of Joe Walsh, but there are many other people who, within the months after all these raids start happening and the feds are locking people up and they can see the torture that's going on, they all of a sudden are just like, I think Donald Trump is bad and will just say whatever they want me to say.
Now think about with Epstein, or think about these honeypots and these brothels.
The moment, like you mentioned, Mike, that prosecutor comes out and says, we know who you are, these people immediately are like, Hillary Clinton is the greatest politician in American history.
unidentified
All they have to do is like, literally, if you, if you're in a position where they have information on you, you know, all they have to do is say something that you'll pick up in a tweet.
They can put it in a press release, an official press release, something in there that you're familiar with.
And then you're just like, oh no, this is them speaking at me.
Even if you didn't do anything, there's like a trick, I don't want people, you know, maybe I'll regret saying this, but something like lawyers would learn, or police would know, is if you go up to somebody and say, you know, we actually know what you did, most people are like, oh, what?
Even if you didn't do anything, because it's like that, what is the book, Crime and Punishment, where it's your conscience, it's always carrying things and paranoia.
Let's put the pieces together here because let's just say you're the president of the United States.
Let's just say you were hanging out with Mr. Epstein.
And there could be different scenarios and different situations where it doesn't have to be children as young as nine, and you can't just be a total evil demon as there are actual reports and witnesses talking about specifically young children that were brought on that island.
But let's just say someone's, you know, 17 or 16, but they look like they're a lot older.
So if you're a politician, you're hanging out, you're having a good time, and then Epstein says, yeah, yeah, you know, feel free to come to my mansion in New York City.
That's wired with all these surveillance cameras in a secret surveillance room, documenting everything in every little small corner, with cameras even in the bathroom.
If you're a politician and you partake with someone who you think is of legal age, there's video footage, you're the president of the United States now, you're the prime minister, you're a prince, you're, you know, whoever you are, They just come to you and say, hey, here's a video tip you want to show you.
This girl was actually 17 years old or 16 years old.
You violated the age of consent.
You could go to jail.
But more importantly, look at all the sick and disgusting stuff that you're doing that now the whole world will find out about.
So will you be supporting Israel?
Will you be bombing Syria?
Will you be implementing, you know, a vaccination rollout program?
Well, my favorite version of this is more so, you know, President candidate, he's running, he's like, we're gonna bring our troops back, we're gonna end these wars, and everyone's clapping and cheering.
Then he gets inaugurated, he swears in the Bible, he walks in, sits down in the Oval Office, and he's like, it's time to get to work.
A man in a suit with sunglasses sits down and says, Mr. President, I'd like to show you some important documents, and he pulls out a picture of JFK and slides it across the table and says, we'll be giving you instructions shortly.
When Jesse Mature became governor of Minnesota, he actually, the CIA met with him, and it was less nefarious than that because, you know, Jesse I don't think really was going to play ball, but He goes, oh yeah, no, they come in and we don't really know who you are and everything else.
So we know that happens, for sure.
With the blackmail, I guess I'm conflicted because I feel like most people don't need to be blackmailed, first of all.
Blackmail's like, do you need to tell Bill Gates you need to vaccinate people?
I don't really think so, right?
Those people are going to play baller.
Even in the media, you know, you worked in the media.
I've known most of the people you worked with A lot of them are editing, so you can have a name on Wikipedia.
A lot of them are taking $25-$50 and would write an article about you, that way there was a citation, some Wikipedia factor.
I'll tell you, I'll give you the real scenario that intelligence agents engage in for manipulation of the press, and it's not what most people would assume.
People often believe that journalists are bribed.
Intelligence guy says, here's money, be evil.
I'll tell you how it happens.
There is a 23-year-old journalism J-school graduate, let's say 24, gets a job and is getting paid $40,000 a year in New York City.
An intelligence official or agent or person will contact them and say, hey, do you want inside information on what's going on right now?
We'd like you to write about it.
And they go, whoa, I now have a source.
This 20-something-year-old goes to their boss and says, I have a source in the CIA.
And they go, really?
That's right, and the FBI.
and they can confirm these things.
The next thing you know, this individual writes, Donald Trump is secretly working for Russia.
Intelligence agents, sources have said X, Y, and Z, A, B, and C.
It's all fake.
They didn't have to pay this person.
They just said, think about what's going to happen when you get the scoop.
These individuals end up getting lucrative contracts because these news outlets are like, who do I hire?
Honest journalist with 50,000 followers.
You get some stories sometimes.
This person who's got a Rolodex of CIA officials, and they're going to write whatever the CIA says, and we can't get sued if we report salacious BS.
unidentified
All you have to do is look at MSNBC from like, well, look at MSNBC because the MSNBC is where, like, the people from the Council on Foreign Relations go.
The MSNBC, you know, Mika Brzezinski's father was, you know, was involved with the Carter administration.
MSNBC is where all the CIA operatives go.
It's where all the ex-FBI people go.
There's not any light between, you know, a significant number of the media and the intelligence operation.
So it's not that the access is really what they're after, more so than the money, because the point of money is power, right?
And the access to politicians or people that make decisions, that's a perfect There's many ways to skin a cat and we could explain it on a small level with an activist journalist who's just going to do what you want them to do and you hire you that person you could talk about gaslighting you talk about manipulation but there's there's different layers to this because there's a lot of resistance there's a lot of at stake here especially when it comes to big national psyopsis that
Of course, the CIA does everything in its power in order to prevent the people from finding out, like the Wuhan lab leak, which, as we know, the CIA paid analysts to cover up, which we know the CIA had their fingerprints on.
When we look at stories specifically with individuals like Udo Ufket, He was a very prominent German journalist.
He was essentially writing for all the top German newspapers and he described a situation where the Intel agencies literally came to him.
They wrote up stories and they were like here put your name on it.
We're going to publish this.
Yep, and he was like.
Do I have a choice?
No, you do not.
And he literally, under his name, published CIA propaganda, which he later, in his life, came out and said, hey, these guys literally were writing articles for me.
It wasn't even me, it was the CIA, which is crazy that they were doing that in Germany.
Imagine what they're doing here.
unidentified
You mentioned, you were talking about, you know, blackmail and stuff, and I want, one of the things you said kind of struck me, like the idea that That the really, really powerful people are beyond blackmail.
I wonder what's your take on Epstein and Clinton, Bill Clinton's relationship?
Because if someone like that is beyond blackmail or whatever, people that are higher up, whoever it may be, then what is the incentive for them to actually be around Epstein?
A staffer who worked on the Clinton campaign, this was many, many years ago, obviously, a couple decades, and Clinton said, oh, did you have a good time?
They go, oh, yeah, Mr. President.
Went to the strip club.
He goes, oh, did they wear bottoms?
He goes, no, sir, they didn't.
He goes, oh, man, I miss those days, right?
True story.
So if you're Clinton, you can't go to a strip club.
Now, let's say he's ugly, he's out of shape, he can't make a joke to save himself, but he's got ten times the money that can make up for his deficits.
And I'm not saying all women are vapid and only want cash, I'm saying he will have massive success in the market of women who want money.
unidentified
And if you're going to be real, I mean, honestly, Bill Gates is interesting because he's lived an interesting life and I'm sure he's got a ton of interesting stories that he can tell and stuff.
She used that as leverage for her divorce settlement.
That's too, like, well, why would we leave Melinda Gates?
Well, she wanted to leverage the divorce settlement.
To me, when you look at blackmail, you want to be like, well, who could be blackmailing Hugh Clinton?
You don't need to blackmail Bill Gates.
He's part of the agenda.
He just wants to get laid, right?
And then how old are the women?
Go into that, sure.
Bill Gates just wants to get laid.
He's part of the agenda.
So you don't need to blackmail him.
But then you have all these people on the periphery.
And he would say, well, I do want to, maybe I can get some, my hooks on people.
So I think, you know, I think Eric Weinstein told this story, which was, was an interesting one on one of the shows where the way they would like groom you is they would have like, right here would be an American flag table.
So you'd go in to have dinner and they would have dinner on the American flag.
So some cornball like me is like, yeah, it's kind of weird.
I'm out of here.
But if you were fine with that or you thought, oh, this is so avant-garde.
unidentified
I see what you're saying.
Start doing small things that people might find offensive.
And if you get past the first one, then intensify, intensify.
Because maybe, okay, well, I'll run him through the funnel and see where he, and then eventually you're, because you don't just come out and say, hey man, you want to, I have, you know, these chicks coming over my house.
You want to like come over and meet chicks.
No, that's not going to work for anybody.
But you run them through that weirdo funnel, and then at the end you've groomed them.
Podesta's art gallery definitely is a major black pill.
We could get into that in another time.
But another thing that also linked Bill Gates and Jeffrey Epstein together is their kind of love and affiliation for eugenics and population control.
People don't really talk about this a lot, but Jeffrey Epstein was involved very heavily in the scientific community.
He bankrolled a lot of very controversial scientific studies that we still have no idea about, and he literally tried to spread his DNA by impregnating 20 women on his own ranch.
This is reported by the Times of Israel, talking about his specific Dream of spreading his DNA as far and as wide as he could as well.
Bill Gates also another eugenicist who believes that there's too many people in this world and also supports a lot of very controversial scientific experiments and projects.
I don't ever want to be in the position to defend Bill Gates other than his vaccination—people have more children—why are there fewer children today?
People have more children when your kids die, right?
So if you go back to the history world, people would have 12 kids because maybe 8 of them would die.
We can't imagine that in the Western world.
So when people say he's a eugenicist of population control, The idea is that if you know that four of your kids might die from malaria, then you might have eight kids, because you want to have four kids at the end of it.
So if you get vaccinations to these people, then they're going to be able to do more family planning.
So I'm no Bill Gates defender, but I think his vaccination program... It's not just that.
It's so different from the problems that they're trying to solve.
New York financer accused of trafficking small minors, was interested in eugenics, would surround himself with top scientists who entertained his half-baked ideas, New York Times says. - I know, but the implication is that Bill Gates is like, it's not about depopulation, it's about repopulation of Epstein's genetics. - Luke's too serious, he missed the joke.
unidentified
Bill Gates is like, I love epithine so much, he's the genetic specimen.
And then I, so I think that Operation Mockingbird, the way it works, and I've seen this done to me personally actually, and I've seen it done to certain things where You're talking about one thing, and then they narrowly define it.
Because remember, we were talking about Epstein under a certain hashtag before these files came out.
And then they go, no, actually, that hashtag doesn't have anything to do with Epstein.
It's actually about this thing that nobody was talking about.
They'll do this thing where, and a lot of people online fall victim to this very easily.
Let's say there's a guy who has an email outlining his plan to rob a bank.
The emails get leaked, and he'll say something like, the crow flies at midnight.
And it's very obvious what they're alluding to is their plot to rob a bank, and then when they're like, uh-oh, these people online are starting to figure out what we're doing, they'll introduce fake evidence, and then they'll- a picture of a guy named The Crow, and he's a, he's a, you know, he works for a petroleum company, and then they're like, aha, they were actually trying to buy oil shares, and then everyone goes, whoa, totally diverts what was actually going on, everyone forgets about the real story, and targets the wrong story.
You flood the zone, and that's a lot that's happened with Epstein, is you want to flood the zone with as much truthful information, half-truth information.
There was actually that cool scene, if you ever watch Money Heist, during the lockdowns, where they were going to release all this information damaging the government officials, so the government officials said, we're going to dump a bunch of fake stuff, and now the zone, because that's actually a taxis.
This was a strategy that they wanted to use against Wikileaks.
The plan was to leak fake documents to Julian Assange, make them appear real and give some credibility to him, so when Wikileaks reported it, they could come out and say it's all fake.
And this is what Cass Sunstein, Obama's information czar, literally wrote about in Harvard, which is another Epstein connection, by the way.
But when you look at his essentially white paper on fighting disinformation, he openly bragged about spreading disinformation himself in order to muddy the waters, in order to confuse people.
And with every kind of major event, whether it's COVID or 9-11, we always see a bunch of crazy people come on and say the most wild, absurd stuff, so then everyone always associates the victims or the people who want the actual truth and accountability here with some of these crazy bat-ish individuals that are literally spreading the news.
unidentified
And people that are inclined to disbelieve the official narrative They tend to believe almost anything else that's given to them.
If you're automatically suspicious of whatever the standard media narrative is, it's really tough to parse through all the other information to find what's actually true.
What does the average person mean when they're talking online about this?
Democrats have expressed numerous times over many, many years that displacing the majority population of this country with immigrant voters is beneficial to their hold on power in this country.
Van Jones famously said not even that long ago, we're asking the white majority to become a minority and we know what that means.
unidentified
Ten years ago they were writing pieces called the Browning of America.
And so what happens then is, as soon as people start talking about the Great Replacement, On Wikipedia, it gets flooded with articles saying, it's a white supremacist conspiracy theory that believes Jewish organizations have started... And then all of a sudden, the average person sitting at home, someone will say to them, did you hear about what the Democrats are talking about?
Like they wanted to... Van Jones was saying he wanted to bring in a bunch of immigrants for voting power.
They'll go, oh wait a minute, I heard about that.
You think the Jews are doing... And then all of a sudden, it becomes something insane to the average person.
It's basically information vaccination.
They want to give a fake psychotic story to the average person before they can hear the actual concerns.
Ian Croson was talking about this.
He mentioned this with his mom.
He says whenever he sees the media put out a fake story, he's like, I got to call my mom right away and make sure I give her the real information before she gets tricked by the corporate press.
Another way of saying that when we talk about Epstein, we have to ask if we're a falling victim to that and going down rabbit holes that they're doing to flood their zone.
Or another favorite tactic too is, I didn't know who David Duke was until the media said that he endorsed Trump.
So they prop out figures.
So with the Great Replacement Theory, Like, I believe most of these anti-Semites online are federal operations, because I know a lot of people, I talk to a lot of people, people criticize every group of people, and nobody talks like these people do on the internet.
But what you do is, when you're like, oh, here's that guy, what do we want to discredit today?
Well, let's discredit Great Replacement.
Oh, so we'll have this guy say, well, the Jews are doing it!
And then you even notice, too, because I kind of, I smoke these guys out, we'll go back to Epstein, but this is a tactic I use to smoke them out.
I said, well, you know, if you want to talk about these Jewish organizations and migrant resettlement, why don't we talk about Catholic Charities?
And that's why you have Ilhan Omar in Minneapolis.
And then they lost their minds.
And I was like, oh, that's how I know you're feds.
Because if you actually cared, you would say, well, yes, they're the Hebrew resettlement organizations.
One of them, Lutheran Charities is one, Catholic Charities is another.
And then they even tried to say, well, actually, the Jews control Catholic Charities.
They posted a meme, they deleted it, and it was a list of, it was like, media personalities and stars of David, you were on it, and Luke was on it, and then I commented, I tweeted, haha, like, they've actually put Luke, they deleted it.
Like, these people, I cannot believe they're real people.
But it's remarkable that they'll just take any Any individual who is challenging the machine or whatever, or in any way, like, it's seemingly anybody.
Like, I don't understand, they made one where Brian Stelter has a Star of David, and I'm like, you can literally just Google the guy, and he's like, I don't know, he's some kind of denomination of Christian, and then they put Luke on it, and I'm like, there's literally never been any instance where Luke has done anything related to Judaism.
No, and he's critical of Israel too, but that's the idea.
The idea that MKUltra, Operation Mockingbird, would be you fall off a turnip truck, if you believe that.
So you want to constantly flood the zone.
That's why it's so hard to be right-wing.
Because you're like, no, actually, I have influence.
This is what we really believe.
I'm not making it up or putting on a front face.
Here's what we think about Israel, you know, we got some problems, they've done some things that aren't really good and, you know, we've talked about that.
Here you can go see all the things we talked about.
They're like, no, no, the right wing, they hate Jews and therefore they hate Israel, the Jewish state.
Like, nobody, nobody does other than these Fed operations or the nonprofits, of course, fund them, because what better way to raise money than to say, oh, look at all these extremists online.
And then anybody who would question that would say, well, Media Matters was caught sock puppeting Elon Musk.
So if Media Matters will create sock puppet accounts to manufacture an advertising boycott, then why wouldn't these groups also go on as little online Hitlers and create all this drama to make it look like this is a big problem and I can raise money off of it?
It was myself, I believe it was also Max Blumenthal, several individuals who are like moderate or even leftist, most of them were like leftist, who are anti-war.
The SPLC wrote an article claiming that The left and the right had this like unification under anti-semitism and stuff like that.
They claimed, first they called me alt-right, which was like laughably absurd, especially at the time, but they claimed that I had gone to Iran for a Holocaust deniers conference and their source was an archive of a conspiracy theory website from Iran that had since been deleted.
And I was not so much involved in the legal proceedings, but several of the individuals who are named, I think Rania Calick may have been also implied in here, Max Blumenthal sent like a letter.
They immediately took it down because the implication was, I was like, I'm more than happy to go to court over this.
I would love the Southern Poverty Law Center to assert they genuinely believed an Iranian Holocaust denier's website was a true source of information and not just reckless disregard for the truth.
So they had to delete it.
But I'm wondering, you know, for what purpose did they try to make that claim about me at the time that I was a holocaust denying Iranian venture going?
Here in Iowa, on TimCast IRL, there's a gigantic TV screen that says TimCast IRL, and the guy, one of the journalists from the local news outlets, wrote Vivek Appiah on the Tim Pool Daily Show.
And I'm just like, does this man not have Google?
Does he not have eyes for which he can see the screen before him?
Did he not look at any of the individuals here and ask them what, like, he didn't ask a single person what they were doing here, what was going on?
He didn't know the name of the event he was attending that he then went on to write about.
I had one of your staff guys tell me that they were very uncomfortable when I was calling them prostitutes of the horse stream media.
And when you look at what they're doing, it's criminal.
They covered up this story of Epstein for so long, just to bring it full circle here.
You look at what ABC News did with Amy Robach.
You look at Vanity Fair with the latest revelations that came out with Bill Clinton, according to some sources, through these latest documents, barging into the headquarters of Vanity Fair and saying, no, you're not going to tell the stories of these victims here.
You look at almost all the people that were victims here.
They all document specific cases.
We had the stories.
We had the documents.
We had the evidence.
The corporate media chose to ignore it for over 30 plus years.
VH1 was promoting Jeffrey Epstein as some great philanthropist.
And they essentially were aiding and abetting a larger trafficking If I were to make a bet, the Amy Roback stuff, where she's on camera saying, I had him, I had Clinton, I had the Epstein stuff, how much would I bet Clinton himself went in and said, do not, just like, I'm not saying how much would I bet, there's that email where it claims Bill Clinton went to Vanity Fair and said, do not do this reporting, why would that not be the same case for ABC?
If someone, if I had this story and they came to me and said, you're not going to be able to interview these individuals who do this reporting, I'll be like, okay, I'll do the reporting.
And then, uh, you're going to want to do those interviews and we're not going to let you do it.
I am tired of hearing these stories of the people with leverage giving up their leverage to evil people.
In this instance, ABC could have told them, no.
You are going to give us the interviews, because we're the ones with the story, and we're going to report it.
And if you want to play ball, you play ball with us.
Instead, they go, oh, we'll play ball with you.
Why?
Elon Musk did this, and this is why I have tremendous respect for him.
When the advertisers threatened him over this BS adpocalypse, he said, go F yourselves.
And that's what I'm talking about.
When the first adpocalypse happened on YouTube, all these big advertisers said, we're going to cancel our ads on YouTube unless you ban these things.
I'm like, it was the easiest thing in the world for YouTube.
Let's just say hypothetical company A. I'm not going to use any real companies.
Let's say company A shows up and says, you know, look, Tim, we don't like the nature of your show and the things you say, so we're going to pull our sponsorship from you unless you stop saying these things.
You know my responses?
All right, here's what I'm going to do.
Who's your chief rival, Company B?
I'm gonna replace all your ads with theirs.
Did you want to rethink what you were just asking me?
If YouTube said, you know, oh, you're coming and threatening to pull your ads, I will make sure, however much money you spent in marketing, we will divert to your chief rival.
And let's see how much they enjoy the free press and the billions in marketing we give them instead.
Let's see how your brand fares.
Not only that, we can go a step further.
I'm talking to, you know, I talk to individuals who are scared.
If I speak out, I'll get fired.
I'll get canceled.
And I'm like, Use that leverage.
If a company tells you, hey, you're a pro athlete, you're a musician, if you speak up about this stuff, we'll fire you.
My response to them would be like, okay, here's what I'm going to do.
I'm going to make a post about how you just threatened to fire me because I want to call out Epstein.
And whatever you think the damages would have been for me calling out Epstein, it's going to be tenfold when now you're involved in the coverup of Epstein.
Have a nice day.
Or perhaps you'd like to rethink what you just said to me.
You come to me with a baseball bat banging on the ground, threatening me.
You've just entertained me.
Like, don't you dare.
And I wish more people would exercise their leverage, their autonomy, their power, their capabilities.
It is frustrating to me that there is an evil force that is not as powerful as people would think.
You know what, I'll give you a better example.
The movie Ants, but here's what I mean.
In the movie Ants, right, the grasshoppers are oppressing the ants and it's like if these ants ever find out that if they team up they're more powerful than us, we're in deep trouble.
That's what I mean.
These people who come to you and threaten you, we're going to take your job away if you support Donald Trump.
I'm like, yeah, but if every single Trump supporter, you know, they call it the secret Trump supporter or the silent Trump voter, if every single one of them said, okay, fire me, good luck, It would not be the case, because the masses have more power together.
They want you to believe that they can crush you, and you have to be scared.
When in fact, you should stand up for yourself, and if everybody did, they'd win.
I'm sure you're a little kid, and you're like, hey, why don't the...
Why don't these bison just all kill the lions?
There's like eight lions, there's a thousand of them.
That's the Western education model, though, that teaches us that we're like tabula rasa and everything.
Some people just have herd DNA, like the other day I said, like noble DNA.
There are some people, like me personally, where it's a little different now that I have kids, but I would have just like, okay, like, I've been threatened and stuff, you know?
It's like, okay, like, I don't give a shit, right?
I just wanted to say really quick, a lot of people are disconnected from the spiritual aspect of this existence.
A lot of people's pineal glands are calcified.
A lot of them don't have that larger connection that makes them kind of connect these dots saying, hey, We have one life to live.
We are one kind of energetic source.
Why lower your vibration?
Why be in a position where you regret and do really awful, horrible stuff as, of course, all of this superficial stuff is meaningless?
So, without that spiritual, without that religious connection about who you are, your karma, your judgment, A lot of these people don't have any of that, and this is why they're able to make these kind of cold-blooded decisions saying, I'm gonna get money, I'm gonna live in the pleasure centers of now, instead of the larger kind of gratifications of eternal life and greatness of doing good in this world.
You know, I think there's that question, what would you do if you won the lottery, right?
You won the Mega Millions, you won a hundred million dollars, what would you do?
The average person, you would ask, is gonna say something like, buy a house, pay off my debt, private island, stuff like that.
And it's a bummer, because the reality is, even wealthy, successful individuals that everyone who's, like, listening to this show would follow, still have the exact same mentality.
Just because they earned their wealth doesn't mean they still don't have the mentality of, once I have the money, I'm gonna buy myself a boat or a gold statue of themselves.
And it is a bummer, because it's like what you were saying about these people who could just, you're rich forever.
At that point, it's like, you can really do something now.
You have so much less to fear than the average person who's like, if I stick my neck out, I lose my job, I can't feed my kids.
There are too many people who are independently wealthy and still making money, and I'm like, you know, You come to me, and you'll say to me, I really appreciate what you do.
My response to you is, you have substantially more money than I do.
Why don't you do something?
Invest in something.
Spend the money in a way that's going to actually help us win.
And so I'm like, oh, OK, he probably wants to fund a movie.
I can push him in the right direction.
I don't need his money, but I can get him somewhere.
And you realize, like, oh, okay, that's another thing, too, that maybe that's why I'm less... I've become less of a conspiracy theorist over the years because I've met so many of these people who are pulling the strings, and I find them pretty, like, banal.
And I've learned people... Making money is a skill in itself that you can learn, because I had to learn it myself, but it's completely unrelated to being an interesting person, to having moral courage, and I just... These guys I want to meet...
And I was like, man, what a waste of my time.
Cause I'm like, oh no, here's actually somebody doing something cool.
This person doesn't really have it.
Cause I kind of know who's broke, who's not right.
Bought a lot of dinners.
And then I'd be like, oh no, actually with that guy or that girl, like you could really make a difference in that person's life for like a few grand a month.
You know, I don't know.
I don't want, I don't need your money.
You know, like, or if you want to make a film, you can write me a check, but it's going to be bigger and I don't want you breathing over my neck.
You know, I don't think they're controlled opposition, but I'll tell you something that really bothered me, bothered me a lot, including by some people I like.
So I don't want to name names or do like a whole drama.
Oh, Cernovich bashed this person.
They're bashing you.
I'll just say in general, what really bothered me was I know for a fact that during the COVID lockdowns, People moved to Florida, posted selfies, I'm in the free state of Florida, and then when DeSantis announced his campaign, then they all said DeSantis locked down Florida.
Stuff like that really bothers me.
You can back Trump, you can back DeSantis, don't do that though.
Don't move to Florida, oh I'm in the free state of Florida, and then go actually no, DeSantis, he locked down Florida because that's what Trump said.
When you mention that some people are just herd, you know, genetics or whatever, you know, whether figurative or literal, non-player characters, they're not interested in being a character in the story, they're interested in being the innkeeper you talked to one time.
I remember, cause I remember early on in my kind of like early come up where people are like trying to understand you to manipulate you.
Yeah.
And it was like, I'm not putting on a front, dude.
I don't want the car, I don't want the Lambo, I just don't care about these things.
And they're like, I gotta really figure out what your agenda is.
I don't know dude, maybe I seem kind of fucking crazy to you, but I have an agenda actually of truth.
Or at least trying to fight demonic forces as I see them.
A lot of people, too, they want to be a Mar-a-Largo, and they want the picture that they're a Mar-a-Largo, and then your friends are like, oh, wow, you've met Trump?
I've never met Trump.
I could have met Trump.
Never met him.
There's no picture of me with Donald Trump.
Never met the man, right?
But if I had a picture with Trump, that would give me cool guy points in my social circle, right?
Because when he would retweet me, people were like, oh, wow, Trump retweeted you or whatever.
So there is a, within our own mind, my own mind too, because I've had to overcome, that's the only reason I know that I had to overcome all this stuff, is there is a little chimp in our little brains that are like, ooh, that's shiny.
You know, oh, I need a bigger diamond.
You know, I need a bigger diamond ring.
I need a shinier car.
And moreover, I need people to know that I have these cars, right?
Because that's what cracks me up about the supercar discourses.
I love supercars so much.
No, you don't.
You want, Other people on the internet.
unidentified
You love people knowing that you have them, right?
My attitude for all that stuff is just, ha ha ha, go fuck yourself.
There was that guy in Texas, the shooter at the mall or whatever.
He had posted, I think, four screenshots of a single episode of TimCast IRL.
And then all of these leftists are like, oh, this guy was a fan of TimCast IRL.
I'm like, The screenshots show he wasn't even subscribed to the channel, and there were screenshots of one specific clip, but my response to you is like, haha, I don't give a shit, go fuck yourself.
Media Matters wrote up Tim Pool laughs and says he literally could give no shits or whatever over this.
I'm like, dude.
No matter what you do, like Donald Trump walks down the street and farts, they're gonna write a negative hit piece and say he gassed the innocent children or some nonsense bullshit.
So at this point I'm just like, we need to win the culture, we need to build culture, we need to... It's something you said a long time ago actually, it's brilliant.
Just be successful, take every family, make money.
And that really is the number one component in winning all of this.
That's where a lot of people, you know, lose the plot.
Cause you ever think about too, like I grew up Christian and I love Christianity and I fucking hate Christians.
And people are like, why?
It's like, cause I grew up with you.
And anytime you post something, what's your favorite book?
The Bible is the only book you need to read.
It's like, dude, I've read the Bible a lot.
You don't, you know, you're not even trying to, um, It can also be rough in this context, it can be rough to team up with them.
Yeah, and I'm such a fan of, I'm so pro-Christian, I just promote Christian messaging all the time, and then you see these people, and so the reason I bring that up, and somebody's gonna cut that clip, oh, Cernovich is working for Israel, he hates Christians or whatever.
You don't want to be that person too, you know, because virtue is modeled and the same thing.
So if you're a Christian and you're the guy who everybody knows you're going to thump the Bible at, then nobody's going to want to model that behavior.
So if you're a dad or you're successful or whatever, you want to try to create a A model that younger people especially can say, oh, okay, that's how you can live, or you can't live that way, and that is why you want to show courage.
So, uh, several years ago, I was hanging out at my friend's house and she has a golden YouTube award for one of the OG ones, the glass and everything for a million subscribers.
At the time I had like a hundred K. I was still waiting to get my silver medal.
And I was thinking to myself, looking at that, like, how do you get to that point?
Like, How the fuck do you get a million?
I was like, I don't think I'll ever get a gold plaque or whatever.
Now I have three, and we use one to keep the window open because there's a window stopper.
And there's probably a lot of people who are like, that's so messed up, man.
I wish I could get to that point.
But I think one of the issues for me, one of the things I learned is You're told these things are great, these are accomplishments, and you want to know what that's like, and then, for me at least, I get there and I'm like, it actually wasn't all that, what it was all cracked up to be, and it was cool, but maybe it's only because I got it that I just don't care as much anymore.
unidentified
The first one's cool, but like, I mean, honestly, I still, like, the platinum plaque, I haven't actually hung up yet.
You know, like when I got my first gold, it was cool.
You know, the second one, you're like, OK, but then like, it's like, they never sent me mine.
But Tony Robbins was talking about this recently on a podcast with Theo Vaughn, and he talked about how you should set goals and you should celebrate them in order to kind of mind hack yourself in a positive way.
So you're always kind of striving for something, working for something.
So I try to have as many victories as I can.
I always account for my gratitude.
I always try to feel my gratitude.
That's another thing that I kind of implemented as well to try to stay on my journey and just try to stay as principled as I can.
Of course, you have to also look at your accomplishments and it can't just be, oh, some cars or boats.
It has to be the larger kind of meaningful things in life that you really should be appreciating because at the end of your life, a lot of people realize, holy cow, this was amazing, this was great, but I never really fully appreciated it at all.
So that's another aspect here.
I don't know if we should come back to the Epstein topic, because there's still a lot of documents that came out, there's still a lot of revelations, or if we should continue this kind of larger train of consciousness about the larger kind of spiritual aspects of this, because there's so many different pathways that we could go on, specifically dealing with this kind of insurmountable frickin' evil that hurts children.
I mean, it ties together because it's like temptation.
Right.
I watched this as a good documentary on Netflix, which we're not supposed to watch, but I still watch it, on Woodstock 95 or the Woodstock 99 or whatever.
And you would remember this.
Dude, you're the exact guy that talked to you, right?
So as far as Me Too has gone and the overreaction, when I watch that, I was disgusted with how we were groomed.
Show me your tits.
Oh, she's drunk.
Show your tits.
Girl's gone wild.
Let's blast some drunk.
And you're like, what the fuck?
Because they were talking about the girls on the body surfing, getting groped and everything.
And I realized we really were just a disgusting culture.
I don't know how children are allowed on that app.
unidentified
The stuff that, I mean, I've been, you know, playing live shows for 20 years, you know, and so, and I have seen, you know, the stuff that you're talking about, I've seen it like, Go from something that you see to something that is extremely rare.
Like, you don't see that nowadays, definitely.
You don't see people, you know, throw... If people are... You can still hear about people being attacked in the crowd.
That'll happen once in a while.
But I think that it happens less now than it did 20 years ago.
But when you're just talking about people exposing themselves and stuff like that, that kind of stuff...
And it was definitely looked at as normal, you know, and something that wasn't odd.
So that's where it leads to Epstein and Sin and Temptation, because we talk about kids being groomed, and I'm like, no, no, we were all groomed, where if you were out drunk at college, a college bar, Oh, you should realize she's a drunk chick.
Why are you telling her to show her tits, dude?
Because that's what everybody, everybody thought it was funny.
And you realize, and you look back and you're like, we were fucking groomed.
We were groomed into thinking that was like normal behavior for people.
That was ordinary, not only ordinary, but that was like cool, right?
Oh, let's go to Mardi Gras.
Everybody's going to get drunk.
Everybody's doing these things.
And that also goes to Tim's point where, oh, I wanted a million subscribers, but now that I have it, it's not cool.
And then you're like, well, yeah, but if you didn't have it, would you still want it?
It's like your filter resets.
So for me, if you had looked at me when I was 19 and said, this is repulsive, I'd have said, oh, you weirdo Christian.
And now when I look back, I'm like, that's so gross.
It's like the ruby 50 million, which of course very few people will ever get to.
But there's the diamond 10 million.
Once I got the silver award and I was like, wow, this feels really good, I'm doing something.
Once I got a million, I was like...
I don't care about the diamond.
I don't care about the ruby.
These awards have done nothing for me.
I don't care about the fancy clothes.
I don't care about fancy shoes.
None of that ever actually ended up mattering.
unidentified
The thing, so at least as far as my experience goes, when you get the kind of accolades like gold or platinum records, those are cool because that's people actually deciding to give you the money.
The things that I really just kind of blow off are like Grammys because they're all insider.
It's all people in the business selecting who they're friends with.
You'll hear tons of people nominated for Grammys and you'll have never heard the music.
compromised and they all have uh yes there's videotapes and and and uh incidences of them doing really awful horrible things that they control them with i don't know 100 about all of them but when it comes to when it comes to the ones that get nominated like it's always people you know it's always people inside the business whereas when it comes to you know the whether it be the play buttons here on youtube or or gold records or platinum records or whatever in my case like it's it's stuff that people decided that they're gonna vote you know voting with your dollars and stuff like that
that's that kind of uh that kind of lamp i don't know I guess memorabilia stuff matters to me because of it.
Yeah, there's the idea of there's the icon, and then what the icon represents, and then the way they hijack our brain as they try to groom us into always chasing the icon.
Because then you can always have someone chasing another icon, and then that's how you lead people into sin and temptation, which also fundamentally leads people into moral cowardice because you're thinking, oh, if I If I stand up now, I'm going to not be able to chase these little icons.
And then you say, well, do you even like, I've had conversations like this people before and where clearly they've never thought about it because they're around like a bunch of lackeys.
But I'm like, do you even like give a shit?
You know, do you actually give a shit if you make another 10 million or 20 million?
Do you actually give a shit?
Like, well, I was like, what are you going to do?
You're going to die and your kids are going to fight over your money.
Or you're going to die and you're going to have a foundation and you're going to end up like the Rockefellers and shit libs are going to take over your foundation.
I've been following a few of these Instagram accounts.
They do urban exploration.
It is wild when they're like, we found an abandoned mansion.
They go inside.
Everything is as it was, as if one day time stopped.
Chair will be knocked over.
They're showing like all of these perfect little like teacups in the China set.
They go downstairs.
There's fancy cars.
The guy who owned it died.
That was the end of it.
He has kids.
The kids moved off when they were in their late teens, early twenties, went to college, built their own lives, literally don't give a shit about what was left behind for them.
I've gone to look at houses, and I'm sure many people who are in the market may have experienced this.
I went and looked at one house in Maryland several years ago, this was like 8 years ago, and it was like frozen in time, and they said, elderly couple died, their kids don't care and don't want it, they just want to sell it.
Time frozen.
Now if you're someone who doesn't even have kids, it's wild to watch these videos to see this 5 million dollar mansion, the pool, everything just...
Like it never mattered in the first place.
And then the government takes it, and that's why I think... No, but that's the crazy thing is that often in these circumstances, it's just done.
The net worth of the building, millions of dollars.
You could sell it.
You could go on the market right now and say, who wants an investment?
Somebody with the capital could say, I need a place to store my money.
But this person who owns it dies, and then that value is just instantly wiped out.
No one cares anymore.
The cars are frozen in time.
Everything that was... TVs are still there, computers are there, and no one gives a shit.
People might go and smash windows out because they're bored, but when that person's alive, they have all of this wealth and mean, then they die, and even the homeless don't give a shit about it.
And they let their wealth control them because you're either, you know, because spiritually, You're either moving humanity forward or not, right?
That's why people like Mark Cuban can never understand Elon Musk.
Because Mark Cuban has every trinket, he's had every blowjob, by every model, and every jet, and everything that you could think of, but he doesn't have a spiritual center where you realize, okay dude, like, I've had it, you know, okay, you're gonna get on a jet, whoopsie shit.
It doesn't matter, but...
And that's what creates the cowardice, and that's how the world will keep its hooks in you.
Whereas you can say, you know what, I'm either elevating humanity forward, and you don't even have to be Christian necessarily to believe it, you can have a secular belief that actually human suffering is bad, the Bolsheviks are evil, we should stop the Bolsheviks, we should do things to stop these people, because even if you don't believe in God, human suffering is bad.
Or like with child trafficking or what's happening at the border, You would just say, you don't have to have a religion.
Do you believe in human suffering, or do you want humans to flourish?
So you want to create a world where they flourish.
And then you got these guys, and they're rich, but they can't make that connection.
I'm glad that I'm not the only one who's watching those Urban Explorers, because they're so interesting.
And then the black mold and everything, I gotta worry about.
But yeah, you do watch that and you realize, that guy, he built himself a big prison.
But the biggest prison was his mental prison, the prison of his mind, where you know that that guy said, oh, I don't want to do this, because I might lose my money.
And then you realize you sat in your nice little prison, you died, nobody cares that you ever lived or died.
I had an extremely high-ranking member of the military that was retired tell me the same exact thing.
saying the biggest prison is the one that you have inside of your own mind.
And I think that statement is very profound because it just shows you how everyone does this to themselves.
And essentially, it's a choice that a lot of people have that they have to make individually within themselves that no one really tells them where is going to be your pathway.
Where are you going to be going in life?
Are you going to be building, progressing, or you're going to have short-term dopamine pleasure centers releases that essentially don't amount to anything and make you absolutely miserable?
That's how we should reframe this larger kind of ideology because I think that's the ideology between good and evil.
How do you... Let's say you eventually buy yourself a 10,000 square foot house.
You know, you spend a million bucks or something.
Or if you're in New York, I mean, we're talking 5, 10 million.
How are you going to defend your home, your family, how are you going to defend your stuff?
One day someone breaks in and you're like, I have no point from which they, how did they break in?
There's too many entrances, there's too many exits.
I just think, you know, for me, the only thing that ever really makes sense in terms of expanding your property and where you live is how many of your family members are gonna live there with you.
And if it's not that, what do you need?
A one-bedroom?
But it's nice to have a lawn.
It's nice to have space to breathe fresh air.
I understand.
I don't like cities, living in that way.
But you see, a lot of people... It's wild to me.
You have industries built on how to get rich.
People who get rich, by telling you, by paying them, you can be rich too.
And I'm just like, everybody is chasing after that.
I can respect it to a certain degree.
But there's nothing there in it.
I mean, unless you want to get rich because you've got big plans.
And I even think that's the wrong method.
The story goes that most people who are successful are successful not because they wanted to be rich, but because they had a mission that they were driven towards.
And there are a lot of people whose mission was to get rich.
They want to play the numbers, they want to win the money, the stock market, whatever.
But I find most people, and correct me if I'm wrong, most people who are wealthy, got wealthy, most people who've gotten wealthy have gotten there because they're on a mission to do something.
The big house thing, though, I'm glad you brought that up because, I mean, you want to talk about a path to unhappiness, and that's why these guys go broke, they buy the big houses, because you buy the house, $10 million, okay?
We got property taxes on that.
In California, property taxes are pretty significant.
So you have those, but then like you said, you have to, you're never alone because then you have to hire a staff, people to watch the staff, a chief of staff to oversee all the staff.
Then you make, so the funny thing too is, so you fight so hard to make money and then you got to hire people to not steal your money.
And then you got to hope the people you hire to not steal your money doesn't steal the money.
And then you're worried about that.
So it becomes this whole rat race, but that's how the, I've always called it the social construct, but most people don't really know what that means.
The make-believe world, right?
The make-believe world is, if you like a supercar, great.
I actually had a car, I was tricked out, it was a lot of fun, I drove it, so I'm not pretending I'm above it.
I don't have anything like that now.
But if you like it, it's great.
But if you like the validation of the car more than the car, you're in the matrix, you're in the social construct, right?
I started calling watches like Pokemon cards.
It's like, oh, show me your Pokemon card.
I got my Pokemon card collection.
Look at this.
I got this AP from this guy I wore at this concert.
And you realize, oh, there's like a card collection, but you're in the social construct.
And the big house really is, and a lot of that's largely driven by wives, unfortunately, because they fall into that.
The real estate industry propagandizes people, oh, your property's an investment, it's going to go up, because they act like you can't put your money anywhere else.
You can only put it on property.
You can't put the real estate thing.
But that, again, leads back to Epstein, because If you look at Epstein, I think of Epstein as less as Even though it was blackmail and all that stuff has been covered up, but it's like the temptation He's this like demon figure.
So if you're making a movie Devil's Advocate with Al Pacino was good So if you're making a movie, you got to realize he's the demon and he's thinking well, how can I get you?
right, okay, so maybe you're not into women and Maybe you're into power, or men.
Maybe you're into men, or maybe you want to, my friends in media can write good articles about you, and then you can have a better Wikipedia entry, and then the person's like, oh, you know, maybe that works.
I see him as a human stand-in for demonic temptation.
There's a movie on him called Jeffrey Epstein's Riches.
I like movies with one name.
I call it Temptation.
It would be the story of Epstein.
And less about the blackmail and more about how he ensnared all these people in his world because people were chasing, you know, chasing these desires.
And then that's how they get trapped in his little web.
Very similar to what Harvey Weinstein did, specifically giving a lot of people movie roles, specifically getting a lot of movies done and paid for.
You're not wrong, especially when you look at the modeling industry, the Jean-Luc Brunet, the Les Wexner's here, who also played a very important role going to a lot of these young women being like, we can make you a top model, but you got to do this and this and this for us.
And that's on the micro level of what happened here, what happened with the Prime Minister of Israel, what happened with U.S.
Well, I mean, the big levels, men are horny, you know, like that's like, you know, you're not supposed to talk crudely like this or you're not serious, but like the number one problem is men are horny, right?
So then if you're a man, you have to find some kind of way to not let that completely destroy your life.
He go to a private island because if he shows up to a brothel or he's in Nevada or whatever, people are going to be like, hey, look, it's Bill Clinton.
Or if he has a girlfriend, she wants to blow his life up.
So it's very... Oh yeah.
Again, which is why sometimes I'm called controlled opposition.
Because I've just been exposed to enough people who are so-called pulling the strings.
I'm like, oh no, no, no.
Who's ever pulling the strings?
It's not these guys.
It's not the people that we're allowed to talk about.
And even the Jeffrey Epstein case is kind of limited hangout-ish in some ways where If you listen to Theo Vaughn or Joe Rogan or Eric Weinstein and everybody, none of them are talking about why wasn't he charged under the Mann Act.
No, I'm the only one who's ever talked about that.
And if people start talking about it, it'll be because of me.
And then like they always do, they'll pretend like they didn't hear it from me.
And then we'll talk about it because I'm Voldemort and you can't say my name, right?
So that the limited hangout aspect of Epstein is you're allowed to go, hmm, is he Mossad?
No, no, they open themselves up to possession and they literally get possessed by these interdimensional species and beings and then they become... Well, now we're getting it!
Figuratively or literally, it does feel like people are possessed sometimes.
unidentified
Yeah, whether or not you're dealing with actual metaphysics or actual spirituality or whether you're dealing with just the way that people behave and the way that we interpret it, there are definitely people that are open to those kind of temptations.
There are definitely people that are possessed by those kind of desires and it definitely affects the way they act.
There's still a level of baseline morality, though, that some people have.
And then you look at – because there's a lot of truth to that, and then there's also a lot of truth to – there is kind of like a hierarchy, so then you get into the chicken and egg problem, right?
So is it that – Epstein promoted people, or is it that people... the age-old question is, like, why are there so many pedophiles in high places?
Is it because the thing knows that that's pure evil, so that's what you want to promote?
Or is it that that's an easy person to blackmail?
Or is it that there's something inherently in a person that would lead them to harm a child?
That means they have no morality.
And if you want to succeed in politics, it's better to start off with no morality.
unidentified
Or just being in a position of power, it corrupts you so much.
It's more like the devil saying, I've seen the work you've done, would you want to come work with me?
Whereas it is the actual, what worries me is when we hear about law enforcement facilitating the illegal immigration on the border, when we see the police, what really got me is when Owen Schroer is going to prison, and he said the prison guards were like, hey look man, I'm a fan of your work and everything, but I'm just doing my job, that's the deal with the devil.
Because look, I know it's not easy.
You're like, I gotta feed my family.
I have to do this evil thing to feed my family.
And that is the very serious challenge of how we overcome evil is, I don't think there's a good answer for it.
What father would not sacrifice himself to save his kids?
unidentified
And in that context, because he's saving his kids, he's not gonna think it's evil.
He might even say, I mean, look, honest question, how many, like Mike, how many fathers do you think would willfully engage in an evil act to save their kids?
I mean, I would consider that more of a moral compromise, so I guess it depends on whether you view a moral compromise or a step down the slippery slope as being evil, but that would be most people who live in a world.
This police officer who is knowing that Owen Schroer is being wrongfully prosecuted and unjustly imprisoned, saying, look, all I did was bring him from the car to the cell.
I didn't even do that much.
But that's the snowflake.
You know, no snowflake blames itself for the avalanche.
I mean, look, he's being victimized, and he's strategically navigating the system in a positive way that resulted in him being released and being able to carry on his work.
In the narrative that you construct about evil, we're always going to construct a narrative that we're the victim of the system, and that we're never cooperating with the system, and that we're never the perpetrators of the system.
I had this conversation with an activist in Ukraine years ago, at the start of what now became their war, and I made the point that, I said, you're an activist for your country, to better your country, and I can respect that.
And she said, no, I'm trying to make the world a better place.
And I said, well, you're certainly not.
You've got an Apple computer.
I mean, these people are marching off the building and committing suicide.
What you're doing is, you're utilizing the resources that you have available to the best of your abilities to better your country, and that's respectable.
But there's a net detriment to what you do as well.
And that being said, my point more so is, the prison guard who told Owen that he knew I know who you are.
I like your work.
This is a person who knows that what they're doing is wrong, but would prefer to do the wrong thing for their personal benefit than not even in some of these circumstances.
And again, I'm not I'm not arguing to make it black and white where everyone just abandons their post.
I'm saying At a certain point, it's easy enough for this guy to say, hey boss, I know this guy.
If you're the guard, Not only do you not see yourself as evil, you see yourself as, boy, you're lucky you got me and you didn't get this guy down the street.
And then when you talk about jury nullification, I agree in principle on jury nullification, except we're having it now.
We're having a jury, for example, at the LeBron James School, these two Teens, of course.
They're called teens.
Stomp a guy's chest, kill them.
There was a white kid was running around shooting squirt guns at people.
Pretty annoying.
But you don't stomp a guy in the chest and just beat him down brutally.
They kill them.
The prosecutor wanted you to murder.
The grand jury nullified and said, no, it can't be murder.
It's going to be maybe involuntary manslaughter or something.
So they don't get the murder indictment.
And then the jury says, no, it wasn't involuntary manslaughter.
Even though the guy died, it was actually aggravated battery, but we'll just give him that.
And then now the guys who brutally murdered him, it was brutal, like to physically, I mean, you're sure you guys, everybody here goes to the gym.
You know, what kind of physical force it would take to, to kill an 18 year old healthy kid, right?
Their moral framework is that we need power and anything we can do to get it.
And then the problem is the culture war right side says we'll play by the rules.
So on the right side you have someone saying, Yeah, Owen should not be in prison, but I'm gonna just do the job and it's gonna happen.
What does the left do?
I'll give you a much lighter example, actually.
The guy with the Black Lives Matter face mask at Taco Bell.
They said, take the mask off or you're fired.
He said, fire me, I dare you.
And they said, you're fired.
He posted a video online, Taco Bell got slammed by the activists, rehired him and said, employees are now allowed to wear political masks.
On the right, they go, okay, I'll take my mask off.
So long as the left is willing to say, we will not be party to actions that are amoral to our tribe, they're going to keep having these victories.
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That speaks to the kind of about like the personality types of people on the right and the left, right?
The anecdote about, you know, a gate in the middle of nowhere.
It's like the person that goes and opens the gate or whatever is the person that would want to change things.
The person that would leave the gate alone, closed, is the person that would want to leave it alone.
And you see that on the right and the left.
So the people on the left are the people that are, like, motivated to make noise, whereas people on the right are generally kind of more like, oh, well, you know, this is kind of the way it is and we follow the rules.
Activism I view is differently from civil disobedience that leads into abdication of cooperation with legal process.
So there's like a downstream thing.
So I don't want us to get to the place where The guard has to be in that morally compromising position even though if I actually could make the moral case for the guard and I would say that's actually it's good that the guard did that because he looked out for you and you were caught up in a bad situation so we don't want them to quit because this happened actually I got so much hate for people when The vaccine mandates came, and I said, well, you know what?
I thank people who stay in the military and take the vaccine, and who are in the FBI and take the vaccine.
Because the people who didn't, well, that was a purge.
So do you think the Biden administration gave a shit if a bunch of people left the military?
Well, the military they might care now with the Houthis and everything.
No, they didn't back then.
Because that was like an involuntary purge.
So if we want our people doing activism, But we don't want them purging themselves from positions of authority and positions of administration, because then it's just going to be left everywhere.
I think if every one of these soldiers refused, the system breaks.
And if the system breaks... But everybody's not going to because... Well, hold on.
If my argument is they should, it's not a question of they would.
My issue is, I agree with you they won't, and they should.
If every single prison guard, because law enforcement leans more towards this direction politically, if 6 out of 10 were like, we will not be in I agree.
the facilitation of the imprisonment of Owen Schroer, the boss is gonna go, "Guys, if they don't work, we have no one to work, what do we do?" The left strikes all the time.
They win power by refusing to do things that go outside of their tribe.
And the right makes the argument of, "I better just go along with it." I agree, most people won't.
The bigger problems we have are upstream rather than downstream.
Downstream, we have a lot of good people.
Upstream, we had the problem.
We had Trump for four years.
He didn't actually hire people who liked him.
He hired people who didn't like him.
And then he complained about it.
So when I look at these issues, I'm much less I have much more empathy and an understanding of the guard who, again, I could see that you could make a moral case for, versus the upstream level of people.
So, say for example, you're on the left, right?
You lose your job in the Biden administration because you smoked crack or whatever.
There's a whole safety net for you of NGO this, think tank that.
If you're on the right and you got marched out of the Trump administration, you're gone.
So there's even people like Kash Patel, brilliant guy, and his whole thing is, okay, well, if Trump wins, I better have some money saved up because I'm going to have to be prepared for what the regime brings at me.
So if you're on the right, You shouldn't have to think that way, but we have to think that way because the right wing donor class is shitty.
All these people are shitty that we have upstream that are going to put these people in these harder positions and make it hard to be morally encouraged.
It's like I always tell these people when they lecture everybody about their religion and Christianity.
It's like, well, you're not a monk, dude.
You're not a monk eating bread and water.
So we all morally make a baseline level decision of like, well, here's how I want to live, here's what I want to think is good, and here's what I want to think is evil.
In terms of the right wing not doing activism, I've always agreed with you on that.
I've said the same thing myself many times.
But then, when our people do it, they get pied pipered into January 6th.
You know, like, that's why I didn't go to D.C.
and I told people the day before, I was like, because I got a lot of heat, I was like, you know what, something feels off, dude.
I don't think people should go to this thing, right?
So then our people do activism, and then they get pied pipered into some shit.
So if you're on the right, You not only have to be smarter than the average bear, you have to be shrewder, you have to know there's landmines everywhere.
No, now it's like you were saying, make money, raise your family.
And then on top of that, I would say, overwhelm the system.
Think about what they did in 2020 with ballot harvesting and anything else you think they might've done.
Counter it.
Then you win, and steal the legitimacy through confidence.
Fighting's not gonna get anything.
And then people are like, what happens in 2025?
I'm like, it's 2024, we have an election in November, we can talk about the rest later, but right now the strategy is, let's win through the institutions, and I think we are winning.
The government mastered this tool of violence and they have used it in such a way that there's no competing with it, especially when it comes to the aspects of even defending yourself, which is absolutely crazy and ridiculous.
So he runs, these two white guys are chasing after him in an apartment complex.
He's able to run, get into his house, calls 911, and it has his gun.
He's like, what do I do?
Because he's doing the math.
Okay, there's two guys with a gun, maybe you can disarm one.
And you realize, no, no, they were obviously going to kill him and then they were going to, either he had his gun on him and they knew it because they knew he had a concealed carry permit because you can run that in your database.
So they would have just said, oh, he was going to shoot us.
Black Trump supporter trying to kill the FBI.
This is what Trump's trying to do.
So not only That again, which is why I guess I have a lot of empathy for people trying to navigate morality in the current era because not only do you not have, because our people don't want to be violent anyway.
So not only do you have to avoid the guys telling you don't be violent, but you have to wonder if you're being chased down by a couple of people with guns, they might be feds.
Setting you up so that they can kill you and then pretend that you tried to kill them.
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