Ken Thomas breaks down the explosive Clinton-Epstein depositions, where Hillary denied Epstein ties and Bill revealed Trump’s 2002–2003 claims of a past feud over a failed deal while admitting Summers brokered flights for his foundation—never seeing wrongdoing. Virginia Roberts Duffrey’s diary entries alleging Clinton’s visits to Epstein’s island with minors fueled bipartisan scrutiny, yet unredacted files remain contested amid victim protections and political optics. The episode underscores how the investigation blurs legal accountability with electoral fallout, exposing deep-seated distrust in elite impunity. [Automatically generated summary]
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Welcome back to Washington Journal.
We are joined now by National Political Reporter for the Wall Street Journal Ken Thomas to talk about those Clinton-Epstein deposition videos that have been released.
Ken, welcome to the program.
Good to be with you.
So remind us about why the Clintons were deposed in the Oversight Committee.
Right.
The committee wanted to get more information on any knowledge they might have about Jeffrey Epstein and his activities.
The House Oversight Committee is doing an investigation into how the government investigated these cases.
And so there was a long-standing legal battle here between the Clintons and their lawyers and members of the committee on whether or not the Clintons should have to testify.
There was a threat to hold them in contempt.
And then finally, the Clintons agreed to do this deposition, which we saw on Thursday and Friday.
They wanted to have a public hearing, and the agreement was that it would be videotaped.
It was the oversight committee that released the file, sorry, the videos.
Correct.
Did they edit them?
No.
Both depositions are about four and a half hours.
It's edited in the sense that there were moments when they had to go off the record.
But for the most part, any viewer who watches these videos start to finish will get a real sense of what it was like in the room, beginning with introductions, with an opening statement from either Clinton and then a questioning from both the majority and the minority.
So if they're not edited, why not air it live?
What's the difference?
Well, I think the majority of the committee felt like it was in their best interest to simply do it this way.
And I think the agreement was also that this would allow the Clintons to just simply do this in their hometown, that they wouldn't have to come down to Washington and have a big production.
But I think from the Clinton standpoint, they felt like the Republicans didn't want it to be a public forum because they were afraid that the optics would be bad, that it might conjure up the Hillary Clinton-Benghazi hearing of more than a decade ago, in which the Republicans on that committee didn't really come out that well.
If you've got a question for our guest, Ken Thomas, on the Clinton depositions and the Epstein investigation, you can start calling now.
We'll take your calls until the end of the program at about 10 a.m. Eastern Democrats are on 202-748-8000.
Republicans 202-748-8001 and Independents 202-748-8002.
You can start calling now.
So what did we learn about the relationship of the Clintons to Jeffrey Epstein?
Fairly limited information.
I think if you start with Hillary Clinton's testimony, she went first last Thursday.
She was adamant that she really had no relationship with Jeffrey Epstein at all.
And I think her posture was just, why am I here?
You know, there's a moment early on.
It was much more of a tense hearing, I would say, deposition.
There was a moment about an hour into the session in which the Clinton legal team learned that photographs of Hillary Clinton from within the deposition room had been leaked to a social media influencer.
It was out on social media, and that was in violation of the rules.
And I think as a result, you saw this very strong reaction from Hillary Clinton.
She was very upset that these photos had been leaked.
And so it was much more of a tense hearing.
she really did not feel like she could add much to the committee's understanding.
Whereas with Bill Clinton...
Well, so before we go into Bill Clinton, let's actually show that part that you were talking about of former Secretary Clinton at the deposition.
Here it is.
And this is an email.
This is an invitation to the fundraiser where you were there.
Do you have any idea if the Epstein referred to is the Jeffrey Epstein?
There's a lot of people named Epstein in this area.
This is in the DOJ files.
I have no knowledge of it.
It says Mr. and Mrs. Epstein.
Yeah, I have no knowledge of this.
Okay.
So it could be a different Jeffrey Epstein.
You're showing me an email from someone who I don't recall knowing about a fundraiser that wasn't for me but was for Congresswoman Lowy.
I have no information.
I went to the fundraiser to support my friend Nia Lowy.
All right.
Excuse me, can I interrupt?
I have another photos that are being released of the Secretary as she is testifying from inside this room.
Can you please advise me as to whether or not that's permissible and consistent with the rules, particularly given that we have asked for a public hearing?
If there are photos that are being released of the secretary as she is testifying, can you please explain how we're done with this?
If you guys are doing that, I am done.
You can hold me in contempt from now until the cows come home.
This is just typical behavior.
We will go off the table.
Oh, for heaven.
So I would like to understand how that's permissible.
It doesn't matter.
We all are abiding by the same rules.
I will take that down.
Yeah, well.
I would like to take a break at this moment.
I'd like to have a break.
I've got issues for now.
Go off the record.
Go off the record.
And you can actually watch all of the depositions by the Clintons on our air on C-SPAN.
We are starting that at 8 p.m. this evening here on C-SPAN with former President Bill Clinton, followed by former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.
Go ahead, Ken.
So now on the Bill Clinton side of things, I think there was a lot more material to work through.
You know, Bill Clinton talked about that he first became connected to Jeffrey Epstein in his post-presidency through Larry Summers, the former Treasury Secretary.
Summers said, you know, that this is someone who has a large plane and could take you and your staff and the Secret Service to the places you need to go to establish your foundation.
And really all he wants in exchange is this is after his presidency.
Correct.
Not during.
That's right.
This was like in 2001, 2002.
And in exchange, really, Summers said, you just have to sit with Jeffrey Epstein for an hour, talk politics, talk economics, that kind of thing.
And so, you know, for a foundation that was just getting off the ground that was interested in doing work to reduce the cost of AIDS medication around the world, this seemed like a nice arrangement.
And, you know, the thing that Clinton said throughout is that there was nothing that he saw or learned that would have indicated that Epstein was involved in any of this malfeasance.
And he also, during the testimony, I thought was interesting, he talks about a conversation he had with Donald Trump at the time.
Trump was, this was in around 2002, 2003.
He talks about being at a charity golf tournament and Trump brought up, hey, I heard you have flown on Jeffrey Epstein's plane.
And what Clinton said about the conversation is that Trump said, you know, we used to be friends, but we had this falling out over a land deal.
And so it seems to establish that there was a real estate deal that had gone bad, and that's what led to Trump and Epstein having a breakup.
But the thing Clinton did say is that there was nothing that Trump said that indicated Trump knew of anything, you know, any criminal behavior or anything like that.
Well, let's watch a portion of former President Bill Clinton here at his deposition.
Moving on to Virginia Roberts Duffrey, are you familiar with her?
As has already been established, she has stated in numerous sworn statements, including a sworn deposition in the deposition in the Maxwell trial, that she saw you on the island with Jeffrey Epstein.
And in fact, this morning, her family shared her diary with me.
And in it is a quote wherein she writes, quote, Bill Clinton met two times island with two girls, CTGM and JE.
What is your reaction to that?
It's not true.
Do you have any dates associated with that?
Were there dates on the diary?
I don't have that information, but we'll be happy to share it with you.
Terrific, because I think there are also records that would reflect where else he would have been.
So thanks.
Did she say that in her book?
This is from her personal diary that her family shared with us.
Yes, but the book came out more recently.
Did she say that on the book?
I can't.
I'm just reading you the entry from her diary that her family shared with me.
I think she ultimately reached a different conclusion, although I had no contact.
Okay, well, I just want to make sure that it's on the record that that is Virginia Duffrey's statement.
Any comment on that, Ken?
Yeah, it's an interesting exchange.
I think that's an issue of whether President Clinton went to Jeffrey Epstein's island or not.
He says that he didn't.
There were some allegations that he might have, but he's adamant that he never took a trip to the island.
I think what's also notable about that exchange is that the person asking the question is Melanie Stansbury, a Democratic member from New Mexico.
Democratic Member Defends Protection00:01:27
So it shows there is a real bipartisan push here to get facts here.
It's not like a Democratic member of that committee is going light or easy on President Clinton because he's a member of the same party.
All right, let's talk to callers now.
We'll start with Mark, Dallas, Pennsylvania, Democrat.
Go ahead, Mark.
I'd like to ask this question, and I think you touched on it a little bit at the end of your conversation, was I don't want to protect anyone.
I don't want to protect Bill Clinton.
I don't want to protect Donald Trump.
What's the easiest thing here to do for everyone involved, to just release the unredacted full files, except to protect the victims?
No, the caller makes a great point.
It's one that we heard from the Clintons throughout, that they feel like all of the files should be released, that you should just simply allow the public to see this information.
Obviously, some things would have to be redacted just given the nature of these crimes.
But, you know, I think that's something that the Clintons would agree with.
Jim Bo in Bakersfield, California says, can Mr. Thomas speak about the betrayal so many MAGA Republicans feel about the clear violation?
We'll leave this here and take you live now to House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries speaking to reporters on Capitol Hill.