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Feb. 20, 2026 06:59-10:04 - CSPAN
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Washington Journal 02/20/2026
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Affordability And Healthcare Debate 00:15:03
News.
This week, affordability and healthcare.
Tensions between the bipartisan National Governors Association and President Trump following their annual meeting.
And immigration enforcement, highlighting different approaches from Republican and Democratic governors.
Joining our bipartisan discussion, North Dakota Republican Governor Kelly Armstrong and Delaware Democratic Governor Matt Meyer.
Watch Ceasefire today at 7 p.m. and 10 p.m. Eastern and Pacific.
Only on C-SPAN.
Former Republican Senator Ben Sasse recently talked about his faith, mortality, politics, and the future of the country in a conversation after his recent diagnosis of stage 4 pancreatic cancer.
The interview is part of the Uncommon Knowledge web series hosted by Peter Robinson and produced by the Hoover Institution.
You can see it in full tonight at 8 Eastern on C-SPAN, C-SPAN Now, our free mobile app, or online at cspan.org.
Coming up on Washington Journal this morning, along with your calls and comments live, Heath Mayo, founder of the grassroots organization Principles First on efforts to elevate principled voices and counteract President Trump's leadership and grip on the Republican Party.
And then journalist and author Sam Quinonez will talk about the state of the opioid epidemic and the Trump administration's approach to combat drug use.
C-SPAN's Washington Journal is next.
Join the conversation.
Listen to the fake news, talking about affordability, affordability.
Do you notice, what word have you not heard over the last two weeks?
Affordability.
Because I've won.
I've won affordability.
President Trump on Thursday tells a crowd in Georgia he's winning on the economy.
The stop in Rome was part of the president's economic tour and a preview of his State of the Union speech next week and a chance for the president to tout his economic policies ahead of the midterm elections.
This morning, we want to know from you, how do you think the president's handling the economy?
Republicans dial in at 202-748-8001.
Democrats, 202-748-800.
Independents, 202-748-8002.
You can text if you don't want to call at 202-748-8003.
Post on Facebook.com slash C-SPAN or on X with a handle at C-SPANWJ.
Take a look at the real clear politics average of polls when asked about the president's job approval.
Overall, 55% disapprove, 42% approve.
When it comes to the economy, our question for all of you, 55% disapprove while 40% approve.
And on the issue of inflation, 61% of the average polls show that Americans disapprove of his handling of inflation while the 36% approve.
Politico with the headline of the president's stop in Rome, Georgia yesterday, I won affordability.
Trump previews his State of the Union speech in Georgia Rally, and the president's stop was in Marjorie Taylor Greene's old district to defend his economic record.
Here's more from the president.
After gasoline skyrocketed to over $5 a gallon, and in some places $7, $8, and even $9 a gallon under Biden, our policies have brought gas prices way down, and now at $2.37 a gallon.
But I was in a beautiful place called Iowa two weeks ago.
$1.85 a gallon for gasoline.
Way down.
All of it's come down.
We inherited a mess with high prices and high inflation, and we've turned it around, and we've made it great.
And they don't mention, like I said before, they don't mention the word affordability, Kelly.
They don't mention, I haven't heard the word in two weeks, because they can't get away with the gig.
It's all a con job with them.
Airfares, hotels, car payments, rent, sports events, groceries.
Everything's down.
Everything's down.
Dairy, eggs, potatoes, and chicken.
Core inflation is now the lowest of any time in more than seven years.
The last three months, we've had the lowest inflation we have had in over a decade.
The last three months, it's 1.4%.
We had record inflation.
You don't have it anymore.
I'm going to make a State of the Union address on Tuesday.
I hope you're going to watch.
And we're going to be talking about it.
But you don't hear the word affordability.
You know, they just say the word.
They look at the camera, say, affordability.
And I'd be watching, I'd say, oh, I can't believe it.
Do people believe it?
They would say affordability.
Everybody would say, oh, Trump's caused.
No, they caused, they caused the affordability problem.
And we've solved it.
And we're going still lower.
But we've solved it.
President Trump says he's solved the affordability issue.
His speech in Rome, Georgia, a preview of his State of the Union address, which will take place on Tuesday next week.
Tune into the C-SPAN networks at 7 p.m. Eastern time for our live coverage of the address to Congress.
The White House has sent the president out to Iowa, Georgia, part of an economic tour that he is on, as well as the State of the Union address, to convince voters ahead of the midterm elections that he has done his best and is improving the U.S. economy.
It's your turn to tell the president and Congress what it's like for all of you when you fill up your car with gas or you go to the grocery store or searching for a job.
There are the lines on your screen.
Here's another poll to share with you.
This is from Pew Research.
A year into Trump's second term, Americans' views of the economy remain negative.
Majorities say they are very concerned about the cost of health care, food, and consumer goods.
When you dig into the polls, they found this.
40% of Republicans rate the economy positively today, the highest mark of President Donald Trump's second term.
View among Republicans are up 5 percentage points since September and 13 points since April.
Just 10% of Democrats and Democratic leaders rate the economy positively, virtually unchanged since April.
Costs and consumer prices, top economic concerns for Americans.
And here is the list right here of the top economic concerns.
The cost of health care with 71% saying they're very concerned about it.
The price of foods and consumer goods comes in at 66%, a very concern.
The cost of housing at 62%.
51% said it's the price of electricity.
45% said people who want to work are being unable to find jobs.
And 34% said it's the price of gasoline.
Well, 20% said how the stock market is doing.
So this morning, we want to hear from you.
What do you think a president's handling of the economy?
And why?
What is it like for all of you out there?
Let's listen to Democrats on this.
Here's Kentucky's Democratic Governor Andy Beshear, a potential 2028 presidential candidate.
Spoke at an event here in Washington yesterday around this week's National Governors Association Conference.
And here's what he had to say about the president's tariffs and how Democrats should be talking about affordability.
We as Democrats have to be more than just against Donald Trump and what he's done on affordability.
We've got to be talking about these solutions to housing.
We've got to be talking about what tariffs we pull down and how quickly.
We've got to be talking about wages and how to recruit these companies.
And let me just make one last point.
Right.
Tariffs are having the exact opposite impact that Trump told you he wanted them to have.
He said he wanted to reshore American manufacturing.
And let me tell you, we've been doing that in Kentucky since before he came into office.
Whether it's GE Appliances, investing $3 billion across America from Louisville, Kentucky, on making the appliances in your home from the United States again to so many others.
What we're seeing across the country is the reshoring slow or pause.
Why?
Because if we're not making something in America, we're going to import most of the things and equipment to start making them in America.
And companies will tell you that right now, building that new factory costs 30 percent more.
If the tariffs are what they are today, who knows what they'll be tomorrow or next week.
And so something that might have cost you a billion dollars is now going to cost you a billion three.
And we've seen that have an impact, a slowing of the economy.
What we've learned is the carrot from the Biden administration worked pretty well on reshoring.
And the stick in the Trump administration is doing the exact opposite.
Democratic Governor Andy Beshear there with his take on the U.S. economy.
Who do you agree with, President Trump or Governor Beshear?
Ryan, in Edmonds, Washington, Democratic caller will go to you first.
How is the president's job approval, in your opinion, on the economy?
Absolutely abysmal.
I mean, just look at the amount of let me let me gather my words together here for a second.
I can't believe that the president actually said that he won on affordability.
He's he's not out here living day to day like average middle class Americans.
So tell us what it's like for you, Ryan.
When it comes to prices, everyone I talk to that goes and has to work nine to five, trying to afford groceries these days, it has not gotten any better.
I mean, as far as gas prices, he always selects one gas station out of the entire country.
Well, in my area, gas is like over four dollars a gallon here.
And people are losing their health care.
People can't find work.
And basically, Biden handed him an economy that was on the upward tick.
It was a month after month.
The jobs added to the economy were over 100,000 at least.
But what have we had in the last few months with Trump?
Seventy nine thousand, sixty something thousand.
All that he talks about is tariffs.
I mean, he claims to make billions and billions of dollars on tariffs.
Well, where all where all is this money going to?
Well, I mean, what is that?
How does the government making billions of dollars on tariffs?
How does that help the average everyday American?
Plus, Donald Trump continues to make the fallacy that he claims that groceries have dropped 500 percent, 700 percent, 800 percent.
Well, this guy is such a moron.
He doesn't understand that you can't reduce something 500 percent.
It would be in the negative.
I mean, OK, Ryan, got to your point.
Let's try to make it without name calling and point.
I'll point to the Bloomberg story this morning on their Web site on groceries.
Nothing is more literally a kitchen table issue than the cost of groceries.
Prices are up about 30 percent since January 2020, about in line with average wage growth.
But Americans have gotten used to paying roughly the same at the supermarket each week in the pre pandemic years.
Lately, they've been forced to stomach a bigger bill with almost every visit.
What's more, shoppers keep getting hammered on some of their favorite foods.
Last year, egg prices surged as they were coming back down.
Coffee and beef were on the rise.
And related to beef this morning is a story in the business and finance section of the Wall Street Journal this morning.
And their headline is higher beef prices are set to last.
U.S. cattle herds are at lowest level in 75 years, putting the meat in short supply.
Let's hear from an independent, Rashad in Naperville, Illinois.
Go ahead.
Yeah.
Good morning.
Morning.
I went to the University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign, and I'm just reading from the Daily Illini here.
It was about county market facing price complaints.
And this was at the end of January.
And there were always discounted prices from the local county market grocery store.
And it always surfaced on Reddit.
And, you know, these videos always came up, and it was talking about displays of new low prices.
And I think we need to understand that savings always total up.
But at the end of the day, there's always a season for people to want to have meat.
And right now, I think since it's Ramadan and it's Lent, people aren't really going to be going to the grocery store that often.
Not for the big celebrations?
I think people are just understanding what's going on in Gaza and what's going on in Sudan and what's going on in Ukraine.
So I think people really understand that when they see the discounted prices and the Reddit accusations, they're going to understand that they're going to be more conveniently in understanding with the rest of the world.
And then just not talking globally, you know, I'm here in Illinois, but, you know, understanding that New York and the Bronx and the South Bronx needs to get fed at some point.
So, you know, just these things are always when are we going to feed the Bronx?
When are we going to feed the Bronx?
And at the end of the day, it's just a form of service and a form of gratitude.
All right.
Let me move on to Les, who's in Dodge City, Kansas, honor line for Republicans.
Discounted Prices and Accusations 00:03:51
Les, what do you say?
Did you vote for President Trump?
I sure did.
I'm glad I left the Democratic Party after Jimmy Carter.
I tell you what, I want to thank you, Donald Trump.
You have done a fantastic job of lowering prices.
I've had a stroke and I've had to hire nurses to do my shopping for me.
And they go to Kroger and after they went to Kroger the other day, I got a dozen eggs free, absolutely free, no charge at all.
I got beef at a dollar a pound off.
I got a 12-pack, absolutely free.
Why was that, Les?
Because I bought one.
Beef prices are dropping.
Gasoline prices are dropping.
I hear it from my nurses.
They tell me how much they're paying for gas and I just love it.
I love Donald Trump.
I'm earning money in the stock market and out here in the West.
I tell you what, you can keep New York City.
You can keep L.A.
They can have their big city high prices.
I like living out here in Mayberry, RFD.
All right, Les.
Les says beef prices are falling.
The headline in the Wall Street Journal, as we shared, higher beef prices are set to last because the U.S. cattle herds are at their lowest level in 75 years.
Esther, Boldensville, New York, Democratic caller.
Esther, what do you think of the president's handling of the economy?
Well, I think it's absolutely awful.
And just that last caller, I mean, he's just saying the same rhetoric that Trump says in all his speeches.
And, you know, the more they say it, the lies do not become the truth.
You know, he talks about he saved a dollar from the beef prices that are going down.
That's, you know, maybe he saved a dollar, but the beef prices are not down.
They just take facts and they just keep saying lies.
And I've just never been so scared my entire life of who's running this country right now.
It's terrifying.
Everything that comes out of his mouth is not true.
Trump lies.
Everything that comes out of his mouth.
I guess I should say 80 percent.
20 percent is true.
And that's how I think he keeps his people, because some things he says, of course, everything he says isn't a lie.
Some things are true.
And that's he's just the greatest, the greatest con man to ever live.
And it's it's horrifying and very scary.
We're very scared here.
Esthers, their thoughts there in New York on our line for Democrats.
Kenny, a Republican in Kentucky.
Hi, Kenny.
Hey, what's going on?
Morning.
Trump is doing a great job.
And I don't see the problem with all these Democrats.
They just have that syndrome.
You know, it's bad.
But I think President Trump is doing a great job.
And and you talk about Andy, for sure.
My I got a crazy dog.
Your governor.
Yeah, my governor.
Honey, he's as sorry as governor.
And his dad was sorry.
Let me tell you something.
They both sorry people.
They done nothing for Kentucky.
And I want to be on his train because he ain't worth nothing.
So I live here.
And Trump, he better be bowing down to Trump because he ain't going to be nothing.
He ain't going to go nowhere than 28 because he's just like his father.
They're crooks.
President's Economic Handling Questioned 00:15:58
What evidence?
Well, what evidence do you have of that, Kenny?
Well, honey, I just I'm the things that I've heard.
And that's what I just say.
But he'll never go nowhere than 28.
And he can get on there and see fanning and all these other places and talk and down our president.
But like I said, just President Trump's doing a great job.
All right.
Kenny there in Kentucky, Republican on the president and his governor, Andy Beshear, who's out here in Washington this week, along with other governors for the National Governors Association winter meeting.
And we've had coverage of it here on the C-SPAN networks.
You can find more if you go to C-SPAN dot org.
Democrats are proposing a once taboo idea, capping grocery prices.
A proposal for the Center for American Progress shows how difficult it is to lower food costs as the government tries to address a major concern for consumers.
On Thursday, the cap Center for American Progress, a prominent left leaning think tank, often cultivates policy ideas later adopted by the party, proposed a two year freeze on the prices of 22 food items such as strawberries and steak.
Grocers would voluntarily agree to cap the cost of food in exchange for paying lower fees on credit card transactions, according to the proposal, which was written by a group led by Jared Bernstein, who chaired the White House Council of Economic Advisors during the Joe Biden's presidency.
So under this proposal, it's the credit card companies that would lose because they would have to agree to capping fees that are they charge the grocers when people use their cards.
It says here that the bargain would apply only to certain foods.
The think tank suggested list is eggs, steak, chicken, pork chops, canned tuna, milk, cheese, butter, rice, flour, bread, pasta, cereal, potatoes, lettuce, tomatoes, apples, oranges, strawberries, canned corn, dried beans and others.
The paper projects that by 2028, a family of four will be spending 229 more per year on those items, which they say that which they would save if the grocers froze prices at 2026 levels.
Overall, the authors estimated that consumers nationwide could save a maximum of 13 billion.
So Democrats revive this idea once taboo, capping grocery prices.
Now, a YouGov survey that was conducted in 2024 on this idea found that 45 percent support direct government involvement in negotiations between farmers and grocers.
Sixty two percent support a law requiring food companies to drop prices when cost of materials falls.
That is a YouGov poll conducted for The Washington Post in January of 2024.
What do all of you say on this idea?
Are you in favor of capping grocery prices?
Ronnie in Elizabethton, Tennessee, Independent.
Ronnie, let's turn to you.
Hello.
Morning, Ronnie.
Go ahead.
Good morning, Greta.
Morning.
I got a question to ask you.
You all spent four years of telling the American people that Biden didn't have no control over the prices.
Now you spent way over a year saying Trump has everything to do with the prices of food and groceries and gas and all that.
But which is it, Greta?
Is it the Democrats don't have no responsibility and the Republicans do?
What do you think, Ronnie?
Did did Biden have control over food prices and now Trump does as well?
You tell us your thoughts.
No, we don't.
Because Biden didn't.
Because the governors of the states have the control over the prices in their state, not the president of the United States or nobody.
You don't think it's global prices?
It's controlled by global corporations and not so much states?
You blame your state officials?
No, it's the governors of the blue states that's controlling the prices and keeping them high to make it look bad on Trump.
And you know it well as I do.
You even said at the first one, Trump got elected, you said that he had all control over it and Biden, you know, didn't.
I just want to know which one is it.
Is the Democrats don't have control or you don't?
I specifically, I specifically said that, Ronnie.
Yeah, you said that Biden had a, how was it you put it?
I forget now, but you.
Yeah, I don't think so.
All right.
Here's the president yesterday in Georgia on his record for job creation and investments in the United States.
But we've created more than 5,000 manufacturing jobs in Georgia alone.
And we've had a very good relationship with Georgia.
And as factory construction gets underway, we've created 70,000 new construction jobs right here.
70,000.
And you know what they're building?
Factories like this.
I said to that brilliant person right there, I see the yellow steel.
You know what that is?
That's a crane.
Brand new.
I said, how long has that been here?
He said, about two months.
He said, tariffs brought it here, sir.
Your policy brought it here.
So today, more Americans in the prime of their life are part of a labor force than at any time since 2001.
And then you could go back another 25 years from that.
And more Americans are working today than at any time in the history of our country.
Think of that statement.
Any time in the history of our country, there are more Americans working today.
In four years, sleepy Joe Biden got less than $1 trillion of new investment into the United States.
So in four years, he got a lot less than $1 trillion.
But with our pro-American economic growth and the use of tariffs, we've already secured commitments for over $18 trillion.
So think of this.
In 11 months, because we haven't even gotten to last month, in 11 months, we have $18 trillion worth of investment coming into this country.
The president on investments and job creation in this country.
Do you agree with him?
How do you think he's handling the economy?
Mary in Mission Texas, on our line for Democrats.
You're next.
It's your turn.
Yes.
Yes.
Can you hear me?
We can.
Yes.
Mary, you got to go.
Well, okay.
I think grocery prices are definitely up.
We are a gas-producing, oil-producing state.
I resent all the drilling, what it's doing to the climate, and the money spent on the border.
I mean, billions of dollars on the wall that does nothing.
So they can come over it, under it, whatever.
All right, Mary there in Mission, Texas.
We'll go to Alabama.
Audrey's a Republican in Huntsville.
Hi, Audrey.
Hi, Greta.
How are you?
Good morning.
Good morning.
You look wonderful in that peach blazer.
Thank you.
That is one of your colors.
I can tell you right now, you look gorgeous.
Thank you.
But anyway, I would like to talk about affordability.
Right.
You know, my main issues are, I know I didn't vote because, you know, he said GD, and I had a problem with that.
So my Holy Spirit just wouldn't let me vote, you know.
But that was the last question you asked me, and I didn't feel like coming public with it, but I will now.
Okay.
But anyway, about affordability.
Okay.
When Trump says he's going to do 1% home loans for veterans, and the Veterans Affairs Committee, I think it was last week,
raised the funding fees for everybody 70% and below to pay for our most disabled veterans because they said they had to find a way to pay for it.
And a lot of people were outraged by that because it's like we got money for everything else.
And then on the grocery thing, President Trump took Elizabeth Warren's ID and threw it out there, you know, credit cards at 10%.
And what did Congress say?
Oh, there's no way we'll do that.
We'll never do that.
So I don't know what's going on.
But could you please look up the article of where Secretary Collins has rescinded that new role?
Okay.
We'll try to look for it.
We'll try to look for it, Audrey, during this first hour this morning in the Washington Journal.
We're asking all of you the president's handling of the economy.
Audrey mentions housing.
This is from the Wall Street Journal.
The White House offers new details on its push to ban housing investors.
The president wants to prohibit investors that own more than 100 homes from buying more, potentially banning hundreds of investment firms from investing in homes across the country, which the White House and economists say is what's driving up the cost of affording a home, especially for new time, new time, first time buyers.
So that's the Wall Street Journal this morning with that.
On the Democratic side of the aisle, here is the leader of the party in the House, Hakeem Jeffries, holding a roundtable discussion on the economy during this congressional research recess.
He was here's House.
Here he is in Winnicott, Illinois, earlier this week.
The state of the real economy in America right now is a mess.
There is an affordability crisis that is not a hoax.
It is very real.
And that point was brought home clearly during this roundtable discussion.
People are struggling with housing costs.
People are struggling with health care costs.
People are struggling with the cost of groceries.
People are struggling with child care costs.
People are struggling with the cost of running a small business, particularly as a result of the Trump tariffs.
The state of the real economy is a mess.
The affordability crisis is one that we are committed to dealing with decisively.
And the need to do that with great urgency, with the fierce urgency of now, was reinforced by this roundtable discussion.
The leader of the Democrats in the House, Hakeem Jeffries of New York in Illinois during this congressional recess, talking about the economy.
Do you agree with him or do you agree with President Trump?
How do you think the president is doing to address economic concerns?
Jeffrey in Baxter, Minnesota, and Independent.
Let's hear from you.
Yes, good morning.
I would like to comment that the fact is that the president and the Republicans are in control of the government right now.
And in President Trump's first year, he has run the national debt up over $2.2 trillion.
If we continue on this pace in his second four-year terms, it's going to be $8.8 trillion that we have spent, more than we take in.
And if you add that to his first four years in office, his entire national debt is going to be almost 50% of the entire 250-year history of this country.
So my comment is when you ask about is gas cheaper, is an egg cheaper, all that kind of stuff is absolutely completely irrelevant.
Social Security is about to go bankrupt, the trust fund, in roughly six years.
And the president never ex-Congress to say, I want a solution to the Social Security dilemma.
My point is you can't blame anybody, but current administration is going to sink the boat.
And Americans, we better wake up to the fact that we better solve this economic problem.
Jeffrey, what about all the spending the decades before President Trump took office his first term?
I agree with that, that Congress is derelict.
But my point, Greta, was alone at the 250-year deficit of this nation.
Understood.
So he is overdrive.
Jeffrey, why do you think Americans don't focus more on this issue?
When you ask Americans about the economy, it is more pocketbook issues.
It's not the nation's deficits and debt.
Why is that, do you think?
Well, I think the general flaw with all of us as human beings in that we are so short-term focused that we look at something irrelevant.
If I'm in a ship on the ocean with a hole and I'm sinking, I don't comment on how pretty that bird is on the railing.
So I just think we need a bigger, broader picture.
And somebody better start speaking up about our national debt.
And why, if they don't, and if there's not more focus on it, what's your prediction?
My prediction is that the United States of America is going to economically crumble and we could literally become one of the poorest nations on earth.
Jeffrey in Minnesota, independent.
Thomas, Sterling, Virginia, Democratic caller.
Good morning, Greta.
Good morning.
I just wanted to make a couple comments.
So basically, if anyone else sees it or hears it, but Trump lies pretty much every word he comes out of his mouth.
I'm not saying every single idea that he has is bad, because the broken clock is right twice a day.
But his whole thing with, like, prescription medications being decreased by 600, 700, 800, 900 percent, how is that true?
Prescription Prices Debate 00:10:47
How is that?
Is there any evidence of that in real life?
Okay.
So have you looked it up yourself?
No.
I take prescription medications and my prescriptions are up.
So I don't know how anyone in politics can say that they're working towards achieving more affordable health care prices when everyone that I know here in Virginia is experiencing higher health care prices, whether it be insurance or prescription medication or, you know, pretty much anything, really.
Okay.
On health care, here's USA Today.
Does Trump Rx deliver the lowest drug prices?
Why results are mixed?
From their reporting, for months, President Donald Trump and his aides have touted efforts to lower prescription drugs for Americans.
Now consumers can check prices at the recently launched website.
Analysts say the Trump administration's consumer drug pricing site might not deliver lower drug prices for most Americans, a key pillar of his administration's efforts to address health affordability.
Trump Rx so far includes brand name fertility, insulin, weight loss, and other medications from five pharmaceutical companies.
And while these drugs are discounted from their list prices, nearly half of the medications on Trump's Rx have generic equivalents that can be purchased elsewhere, often at lower prices.
So if you want to read more, you can go to USA Today.
Steve in Anaheim, California, Republican.
Hi, Steve.
Morning, Greta.
Morning.
I'm going to be off message as usual.
Okay.
Is it on the economy?
Well, kind of on the economy.
Yes or no.
But you're not awfully wrong about corporations that are actually controlling the prices of food.
If you want to bring down the price of food, you're going to have to create competition.
But you can't get competition because they don't give any of the startup companies any money or break on money, which they should do.
He started to do that in his first term with the black community.
He block branded money to startup money, but I don't know what happened to there.
My main concern is basically yesterday when he had his Department of Peace or whatever he called it, he said that America was going to give them $10 billion.
Okay.
Now, this is his own little corporation where people give him $2 billion to start up.
I'm wondering if this is the straw that's going to break the camel's back.
If any other rich son wants to join his organization, fine.
But don't be using my tax money so he can profit on it.
Okay, Greta, let me get off the call.
Thank you very much.
Okay.
That was Steve in Anaheim, California.
We're talking about the president's handling of the economy this morning in our first hour of today's Washington Journal.
He was in Rome, Georgia, Marjorie Taylor Greene's district, the former congresswoman, yesterday to tout his accomplishments.
Here's what he had to say on tariffs.
Without tariffs, what would you do?
You know what?
Everybody would be bankrupt.
Everybody.
The whole country would be bankrupt.
And I have to wait for this decision.
I've been waiting forever.
Forever.
And the language is clear that I have the right to do it as president.
I have the right to put tariffs on for national security purposes.
Countries that have been ripping us off for years.
You know what they were doing?
Using tariffs.
President Trump, on the pending decision by the Supreme Court on tariffs.
Now, today is a decision day at the Supreme Court.
We could hear a decision on the tariffs.
If that happens around 10 a.m. Eastern time, we will be live with your reaction to the Supreme Court's decision.
That's if they make one today.
We don't know ahead of time which cases, which rulings will be released by the Supreme Court.
But we will be ready here on the C-SPAN networks, if that happens, to get your reaction from across the country to a tariffs ruling.
The Wall Street Journal editorial board weighing in on tariffs today.
The embarrassing truth about them.
Why is Trump so upset about Federal Reserve economic research into his trade policies?
And they say this.
The flap concerns the analysis we told you about last week by four economists at the Federal Reserve Bank of New York.
They found that American households and businesses are bearing nearly 90 percent of the cost of the Trump tariffs, contrary to Mr. Trump's claim that foreigners will pay.
The Fed analysis aligns with other research into the distribution of tariff costs from the Harvard Economist and Germany's Kiel Institute.
And with common sense, there isn't widespread evidence that foreign producers are cutting their prices to offset the tariffs.
The main mechanism by which foreigners would pay for the for the border taxes, nor is the dollar strengthening, which is the other possible mechanism for making foreigners pay.
We'll spare you the equations, they say.
Instead, the tariffs are causing an increase in post tariff prices of those goods that are still imported alongside a modest decrease in the volume of imports.
Americans pay higher prices or pay in the form of less choices.
Now, on the trade deficit, there's also this news in the paper this morning from page of The Washington Post.
It's in The Wall Street Journal as well.
Even with tariffs, the U.S. ran a record trade deficit.
The trade deficit reflecting the gap between the cost of goods Americans buy from abroad and the value of U.S. goods sold overseas is driven largely by domestic economic policies in the view of mainstream economists.
The sizable U.S. budget deficit, a sign of a nation living beyond its means, inevitably draws in large amounts of foreign goods despite tariffs.
So that's from The Washington Post this morning.
And another article to share with you on tariffs.
This is from The Washington Times this morning.
According to a study, tariffs made midsize companies pay triple last year.
Tariffs paid by midsize U.S. businesses tripled over the course of the past year.
New research tied to one of America's leading banks showed Thursday.
More evidence that President Trump's push to change higher taxes on imports is causing economic disruption.
The additional taxes have mean have meant that companies that employ a combined 48 million people in the U.S., the kinds of businesses that Mr. Trump had promised to revive, have had to find ways to absorb the new expense by passing along to customers in the form of higher prices, employing fuel workers, and accepting lower profits.
The Washington Times this morning, tariffs paid by midsize U.S. firms tripled last year.
We're getting your take on the president's handling of the U.S. economy.
Jim, in Texas, Democratic caller, let's hear from you.
Hello.
Good morning.
Good morning.
My take is Donald Trump, but taking over.
The only thing we're going to be.
How is he taking control of the economy?
How is he taking control of the economy?
He hasn't.
He hasn't.
All right.
He hasn't.
The economy.
Okay.
Philip in Ohio, Republican.
Morning, Philip.
Yes.
My call is about the capping of food prices.
Well, all food is subject to weather conditions.
You can't get lettuce if it's freezing.
So if you cap the prices, you're not going to have food in your stores.
Look at what happened in New York when their free grocery store opened up.
A dismal failure there was.
And that's, communists have done that worldwide since day one.
And it never works, never have, and never will.
Well, as far as prices go, everything reflects what the county, state, and cities are doing in the country on taxes.
Your property taxes are out of sight because you've got 20 million new people in the country with their kids going to school, absorbing commodities.
So your schools have to have more money.
So they go to the schools and property taxes go up for it.
That's all I have to say about it.
Thank you.
All right.
Philip with his thoughts on our line for Republicans in Ohio.
Mo in Washington, D.C., Democratic caller.
Morning.
When people say the prices are going down, I'm like, you to the grocery store, are you actually shopping?
Are you actually purchasing anything?
Me and my husband, we go grocery shopping every Sunday.
We call it our Walmart date.
And we've been doing it for 10 years.
Our prices have gone from spending $175 a week to $250, $275 a week.
And we have to learn how to be, we have to figure out different strategies.
So right now, we don't buy and roast like I used to.
I'll buy chicken breast, make fillets.
I don't buy hamburger.
I buy turkey ground.
I just have to season it up a little bit, add some peppers.
We've had to change our whole diet, literally, due to the prices.
And I don't buy nothing that's not on sale unless my husband really wanted.
If it ain't on sale, I ain't getting it.
All right.
And Moe, do you agree with one of the ideas from your party to cap grocery prices?
Price Gouging Debate 00:11:28
It's not going to happen because we are in a capitalistic society.
That's not going to happen.
Shareholders are not going to lose their value of their stocks.
First of all, that's not going to happen.
So when they say they're going to cap prices on rice and greens and lettuce and tomatoes and all that stuff, that's not going to happen.
Because the shareholders will lose value.
And they're not going to not get their yachts and their trips to Italy and everything.
But what I want the American people to hear and understand, stop listening to the verbiage and start doing your own research.
And stop speaking everybody's speaking points.
Because you're sounding like it's almost like you're saying the same thing that Donald Trump is saying.
And what he's saying is not factual.
All right.
It's not fact.
All right.
Moe in Washington, D.C. In other news this morning, front page of the New York Times, U.S. military moves into place for possible strikes in Iran.
The president has given no indication that he has made up a decision about how to proceed as diplomatic talks continue.
The New York Times reports Mr. Trump has given no indication, as we said.
But the drive to assemble a military force capable of striking Iran's nuclear program and its ballistic missiles and accompanying launch sites has continued this week despite indirect talks between the two nations.
So a buildup happening in the Middle East.
That's what the New York Times is reporting on this morning.
And in the Washington Post, they quote the president.
The president frames Iran timeline as 10 to 15 days, pretty much.
And the Wall Street Journal this morning also with the headline, Iran negotiates but prepares for U.S. war.
It's not the U.S. that's building up.
Iran is doing the same.
Tehran is deploying its forces, dispersing decision-making authority, fortifying its nuclear sites, and expanding its crackdown on domestic dissent, all in preparations for possible war.
Listen to the president yesterday.
He spoke about the potential next steps with Iran during his inaugural Board of Peace meeting yesterday.
As you know, Iran is a hotspot right now in their meeting, and they have a good relationship with the representatives of Iran.
And, you know, good talks are being had.
It's proven to be, over the years, not easy to make a meaningful deal with Iran.
We have to make a meaningful deal.
Otherwise, bad things happen.
But we have to make a meaningful deal.
So now we may have to take it a step further, or we may not.
Maybe we're going to make a deal.
You're going to be finding out over the next probably 10 days.
The president on next steps in Iran from yesterday.
We're talking about the economy and the president's handling of it.
We'll go to California.
Dennis, independent.
Good morning to you.
Good morning, Greta, and I love C-SPAN.
I just wanted to make a few points.
One is, I think people should understand that an actual decisive authority, no president, it doesn't matter the party, can tell Wall Street, big oil, or big multinational corporations what to do.
There's just no leverage there.
He can try to make a deal.
He can try to bend around.
But in reality, he really can't do much.
And then again, on prices going up or going down, in regards to beef or chicken, it's basically a handful of companies that dominate both markets.
So what they do is they raise prices $5, then lower it $2, and people say prices are going down, when in reality, no, you're paying $3 more.
And I think the polarizations that we're experiencing of my good guy, bad guy, party, politics, just has people where they either overlook it or refuse to see the reality in it.
And then last of all, Greta, I wanted to say I really love C-SPAN, and you guys do a great job.
And without you, I just don't, I can't see a way where the act is working or the public has access to have a voice.
Thank you, Dennis.
Dennis in Fontana, California.
James, Washington, West Virginia, Republican.
You know, I want to talk about the guy from Minnesota about the debt.
So Donald Trump's first presidency, I'd like to know how many stimulus checks you Democrats cashed.
And I'd like to know the deficit from his first term to Biden's term to see who's spent the most.
But let's get back to these prices.
The president and the president and government don't set regulation prices.
But there was one word that people always used when Biden was in.
I haven't heard it for four years now.
I mean, a year since President Trump got in.
That's price gouging.
Have you used that word, price gouging?
I've never heard it.
In what reference?
In what way?
What are you referencing?
Is it happening right now, you're saying?
No, that's why things were high during the Biden's administration, food prices and stuff, because you always use the excuse, price gouging, price gouging.
I haven't heard that word, price gouging, under the Trump's administration.
And do you think it's happening?
Yes, I think it's happening, but you don't use it.
But let's get back to the cows.
PETA will be happy.
B prices is high, but you can get on sale.
You can find little sales, but PETA will be happy, and the vegetarians will be happy.
We're going to be healthier because we're eating less red meat, and I'll tell you who else will be very happy.
And that's AOC, because these Spartan cows won't be affecting climate change.
All right.
Thank you, CNN.
Terry, in Colorado, Independent.
Good morning.
Morning.
I have a few things I want to talk about.
The first one is that in one year, Donald Trump has run up our national debt by over $2 trillion.
That's trillion, not million.
Where did all this money go?
How much did his family make off of that money?
Ridiculous.
Number two, how much is the Supreme Court making from Donald Trump?
Has anybody audited their checkbooks and their little accounts that they have hidden in other places?
Well, why do you think that's happening, Terry?
Because they're crooked.
Okay.
Terry in Colorado.
Dwayne in Michigan on a line for Democrats.
Hello.
Morning, Dwayne.
Is anybody surprised he's a failure?
He's a failed businessman.
He milked the government six times to bail him out.
He couldn't run a casino where they literally come in and hand you their money.
And, of course, you've just seen the clip you played of him in Georgia lying, just lie after lie after lie after lie.
And, of course, you put up two articles from major newspapers about the tariffs.
You don't really think Trump people believe that, do you?
And the people who have Trump derangement syndrome are the people who support the fat, slimy pig.
All right.
Let's make our points without name-calling.
It's not necessary.
You can do it intelligently.
Rick in Nampa, Idaho.
Republican.
Hi, Rick.
Top of the morning to you, Greta.
This is Rick H. In America, retired Marine.
President Trump, Supreme Court Justice of America.
You have to go backwards in time and look at the decisions of the past to create the problems of the present.
Who gave nuclear technology to Iran?
The Democratic president did in 1952.
Who enacted NAFTA?
President Clinton did in 1992.
When China said they couldn't afford shipping and handling costs to America because they only charged 50 cents an hour, President Clinton said, okay.
So the point that I'm making is China only had 341 ocean-going cargo ships in 1992.
How did they grow their fleet from 342 to 5,151 ocean-going cargo ships?
America had 1,881 in 92, and we're down to 272.
My answer to that is, President Trump put a dollar fuel tax on China's bunker oil.
Ships come in.
They're at 3 million gallons per refueling.
That's 340 million every four days.
You get $50 billion.
As Supreme Court justices, you really need to listen to this one.
When Bill Clinton left office in 2000, he averaged $400 billion per month.
When John Mayne left office in 2015, he said, and I quote, NAFTA has finally reared its ugly head.
We're only averaging $220 billion per month federal revenue.
If you do the math, that's $180 billion lost every 15 years.
So if we keep on going in the wrong direction of NAFTA, we're going to lose another 180 from the 220.
And guess what, Supreme Court justices?
You're going to be asked to stand in as referees to do a balance of transfer from America's government to a third-world country.
I guess $40 billion a month to fund our federal government.
It doesn't cut it.
They're going to say, what laws do you enforce and what laws don't you?
For us, President Trump, you got it right.
Thank you for your hospitality.
And Supreme Court justices, give President Trump a green light go.
Decisions of the past have created problems in the present.
Answers are based on mathematical calculations.
And President Trump is a mathematical engineer and a mathematical genius.
Greta, thank you for your hospitality.
All right.
We're there in Idaho.
In other news, front page of the newspapers this morning, this is the Wall Street Journal.
U.K. ex-prince arrested amid Epstein probe.
The king says the royal family backs full investigation of Andrew's conduct.
The president reacts to the arrest of the former prince on Air Force One Thursday.
This is what he had to say.
I have a question about something big overseas today.
The former prince Andrew arrested by the police there related to something with Jeffrey Epstein.
Do you think people in this country at some point, associates of Jeffrey Epstein, will wind up in handcuffs too?
Well, you know, I'm the expert in a way because I've been totally exonerated.
That's very nice.
I can actually speak about it very nicely.
I think it's a shame.
I think it's very sad.
I think it's so bad for the royal family.
It's a very, very sad.
To me, it's a very sad thing.
When I see that, it's a very sad thing.
To see it and to see what's going on with his brother, who's obviously coming to our country very soon.
And he's a fantastic man, the king.
So I think it's a very sad thing.
Well, it's really interesting because nobody used to speak about Epstein when he was alive, but now they speak.
But I'm the one that can talk about it because I've been totally exonerated.
I did nothing.
In fact, the opposite.
He was against me.
He was fighting me in the election, which I just found out through the last three million pages of documents.
President Trump aboard Air Force One Thursday talking about the arrest of the king.
Gas Prices Persist 00:04:14
We're talking about the president's handling of the economy.
Rachel in Maryland, independent.
Hi, good morning.
I am going to do my best to stay on topic.
I just want to say I do agree with Mo and with Janice from earlier in the show.
I'm not an economist, so I can't speak on how the economy is actually doing if the imaginary money on Wall Street seems to be doing well and actual human beings, not corporations, are struggling.
What I can say is that I have had to buy groceries for a lot more friends over the past year.
And I've been working with food insecurity locally since April 2019.
All right, Rachel.
Rachel there, Marilyn, with her thoughts.
Members of Congress reacting to the president's speech in Rome, Georgia, yesterday, where he talked about his economic policies, touting them, saying he's winning on the affordability issue.
Congressman Mike Lawler, who's a Republican from New York, a moderate.
We have made significant progress on the economy since the Biden administration, but Americans are still struggling, and we want to continue to help them with the issue of affordability.
That's why we passed the largest tax cut in American history.
Mark Warner, who's a Democratic senator from Virginia, prices up, jobs down.
This is Trump's economy.
And then you have Congresswoman Nicole Maliotakis, a Republican, saying core inflation has seen its lowest level since March 2021 as a result of President Trump and House Republicans reining in, runaway spending, and driving down gas prices and other costs.
And this from Senator Mark Kelly, a Democrat from Arizona.
I've been pressing the administration on all of this.
If they won't level with the American people on why costs are up, I'll keep demanding accountability.
Affordability is a basic promise to working families.
Let's hear from all of you.
Ann in Des Moines, Iowa, Democratic caller, what do you say?
How is the president handling the economy?
Me very well.
As an American, right now, $1.89 gas price.
A lot of things are up, but he's
never had to ask.
When's the last time a Democrat, name a Democrat, who admitted they did something wrong on the economy?
Everything he does, the greatest.
As Americans, we need to see where we are in everyday lives.
Willie's Thoughts Ahead 00:03:18
And you might agree with this headline.
This is the Washington Post.
Trump claims victory on affordability as public anxieties persist.
This is the part I want to ask you about.
Advisors had been encouraging the president to sound more empathetic towards struggling Americans.
But as some bright spots emerge, the messaging has shifted.
Is the president showing enough empathy?
No.
And that's what you want to hear.
And that's what the president is supposed for Americans.
He's supposed to struggle.
And Trump can't see our struggle because he's the best in everything.
As an American, I want to support my president, Republican or Democrat.
Trump, better than presidents, I'm going to say, since Bill Clinton, could really bring America together.
But he doesn't want to do that.
He only wants to support Republicans.
Just like Obama said, we are not red states and we are not blue to the United States of America.
That's all I have to say.
Anne and I with her thoughts.
Now, the president's speech yesterday was a preview of his State of the Union address, his first of his second term.
Last year, when he addressed the Congress, it was called a joint address.
It's now a State of the Union after his first year in office.
He gives an update on where the country stands.
And we will begin our live coverage at 7 p.m. Eastern time on the C-SPAN networks.
And, of course, it will also include all of you.
We'll get your thoughts ahead of the speech and after as well.
Willie in Claremont, California, Democratic caller.
Hi, Willie.
Good morning.
All right, Willie.
Willie, I'm going to go to Mike, who's in Savage, Montana, an independent.
Mike, what do you say this morning?
Oh, good morning, Greta.
Good morning.
What a beautiful day.
Yes, what a beautiful day.
You know, Canada charges us $200, 200% tariff for lumber.
Lumber Crisis Impact 00:15:08
They gouged the builders during the money supply chain crisis.
They gouged us so bad, it costs $75 for one sheet of plywood.
And nobody's building because of the cost of lumber right now.
And Canada basically has been raping us for years on oil and lumber.
And that is a, in my opinion, a communist country.
We shouldn't even be doing business with them or China.
And Walmart, Walmart, fantastically rich.
And Amazon, too.
Amazon just passed Walmart for the first time.
Yeah, I was just going to share that article, Mike.
Go ahead.
Yeah, yeah.
And then I think Fauci's COVID attack ruined our economy with the phony stimulus and the supply chain fiasco.
Down in Long Beach, there were ships stacked up off the horizon for miles.
They moved them out where you couldn't see them from the coast because people were reporting, why aren't the ships coming into Long Beach or San Pedro?
Well, they were set out there on purpose to destroy the economy.
All right.
That was the last administration's total goal was to eliminate, replace the middle class with foreigners, 30 to 50 million.
We don't know, really.
But I would remind everybody, if we got our money back from Ukraine and the Minnesota Somalian fraud and the California fraud yet to be announced, which is going to be unbelievable, where the money for the high-speed train went to.
You know, they haven't even built one mile.
All right.
Mike, I have to leave it there.
I'll just note what you were talking about, front page of the Wall Street Journal.
Amazon overtakes Walmart as biggest U.S. company.
Later on in the Washington Journal, author and investigative journalist Sam Quinones will join us to talk about his reporting on America's overdose epidemic, particularly when it comes to the war against fentanyl.
But first, after the break, conservatives who oppose President Trump are meeting this weekend in Washington for the annual Principles First Summit.
We'll speak to the founder of Principles First, Heath Mayo, after the break.
Stay with us.
Today, on C-SPAN Ceasefire, as governors gather in Washington for the National Governors Association winter meeting, the conversation continues.
This week, affordability and health care.
Tensions between the bipartisan National Governors Association and President Trump following their annual meeting.
And immigration enforcement, highlighting different approaches from Republican and Democratic governors.
Joining our bipartisan discussion, North Dakota Republican Governor Kelly Armstrong and Delaware Democratic Governor Matt Meyer.
Watch Ceasefire today at 7 p.m. and 10 p.m. Eastern and Pacific, only on C-SPAN.
Watch America's Book Club, C-SPAN's bold original series, Sunday, with our guest author, former Reagan administration official, and a Library of Congress living legend, Linda Chavez.
She has written a number of books, including Out of the Barrio, An Unlikely Conservative, and The Silver Candlesticks, a novel of the Spanish Inquisition.
She joins our host, renowned author and civic leader, David Rubenstein.
How long did it take you to write the novel?
It took me almost 10 years.
10 years?
10 years, yes, to write the novel.
Leo Tolstoy wrote War and Peace in seven years or so.
I know.
Well, what can I...
It's 400 pages, David.
It's not a short book.
All right.
Well, maybe it's better than War and Peace.
And actually, it was longer.
It was longer.
I had to cut.
You had to cut it?
Yes.
Watch America's Book Club with Linda Chavez, Sunday at 6 p.m. and 9 p.m. Eastern and Pacific, only on C-SPAN.
In a divided media world, one place brings Americans together.
According to a new MAGN research report, nearly 90 million Americans turn to C-SPAN, and they're almost perfectly balanced.
28% conservative, 27% liberal or progressive, 41% moderate.
Republicans watching Democrats, Democrats watching Republicans, moderates watching all sides.
Because C-SPAN viewers want the facts straight from the source.
No commentary, no agenda, just democracy, unfiltered, every day on the C-SPAN networks.
Washington Journal continues.
At our table this morning, Heath Mayo, who is the founder of Principles First, here to talk about your organization and your sixth annual grassroots summit here in the nation's capital.
What is Principles First for folks who need a reminder?
Sure.
Yeah.
No, thanks for having me.
Principles First is a grassroots organization of Americans.
Started out as a center-right group of Republicans who were focused on sort of the conservative principles that had long defined the Republican Party.
But I think since 2016, when we began, that project has sort of evolved, and we've sort of seen and been the recipient of the energy in the country that is hungry for something new in our politics.
So we've seen our coalition grow from, I think, folks who would have pretty comfortably said that they were Republicans or, you know, former Republicans into independents, people who have never subscribed to either political party, and even some of these center-left Democrats who are frustrated with sort of the radical bent, the direction of the radical part of the Democratic Party.
So it's grown into a bigger tent than when we originally started, but we're really all about the principles that make America America and that have made us one of the greatest nations in the world.
Who can be the leader of your movement, and is that person a 2028 contender?
I think a lot of people, you know, the way that we think about politics is a little different than the political parties, right?
We, since we put the principles before the politicians or the parties, there's a lot of people that can be principled.
You know, people can disagree about how to implement the principles, but as long as you are leading with your ideas, leading with your arguments, as opposed to personality or name calling or changing, you know, waking up one day saying one thing just because that's what's popular, and then turning around the next year and increasing spending after you said that we should reduce the deficit.
Like, those types of inconsistencies are really what we're fighting against.
So we're looking for consistent champions of ideas, people who actually believe what they say and are wanting to go to Washington to get it done.
So I think there's a lot of people that say that they are that type of politician, but the proof is often in the pudding.
We were just talking about the president's handling of the economy, and according to a Pew Research Center poll, when they asked about the president's handling a year into his second term, I want to share these numbers from you from inside the polling.
Forty-nine percent of Republicans rate the economy positively today, the highest mark of president Donald Trump's second term views among Republicans are up five percentage points from since September and 13 points since April.
Does the president still have the backing of the Republicans and the Republican Party?
I think he does.
Look, I mean, the Republican Party, I think that's evidence of because I mean, I think if you pulled the Democratic Party or Democrats, self-identifying Democrats, the numbers would be completely the opposite.
So I think we've seen that in our politics for a while, the siloization of information.
I mean, I think Republicans tune in to Fox News every day and hear all of the good rosy news about our economy.
They don't talk about how home prices are, you know, approaching record levels, and it's completely unaffordable to buy a home today.
They don't talk about the fact that inflation has continued to creep up under this president.
The deficit is increasing.
And similarly, I think you hear all the bad news if you're watching, if you're a left-leaning Democrat and you don't see any of the silver linings about the economic growth that we've continued to have, increases in productivity.
So as always, it's a mixed bag, but it's about how the Americans actually experiencing this economy.
I mean, prices are still way too high.
Affordability, there's not been much done on that front.
But I do think, look, I think he's got the support of the Republican Party.
There's no question that Donald Trump is the leader.
So then how big is your movement?
And are you, can you get a Republican candidate who does not follow in the footsteps of President Trump, if that's your goal?
Yeah, I think that probably was our goal to begin with.
Because I think we were hopeful that Republican voters and that the message system that everybody gets around politics was, you know, had not jaded folks so much to the idea that politics should be about ideas.
I think it's a challenging proposition to suggest that, you know, the second coming of Ronald Reagan is going to come along and, or whoever it's going to be, a Nikki Haley, people will talk about coming back in and, you know, taking the party back in a different direction.
I personally think that ship has sailed.
I mean, it's hard to read the tea leaves of what politics will do.
I think the goal of our movement is to change the way that Americans think about politics completely, empower the American voter to not just stick with their team and ask themselves, do I believe this person that is asking for my vote?
Do I believe that they believe what they say and that they know what they're talking about?
Or do I think they're just selling me a bill of goods?
And that is how we would like to see politics operate.
So the extent that that coalition can grow, and I'll just, from the politics of it, right, in a completely divided country like we are, where it's 49, 49, 50, you know, razor's edge races across the country, particularly in national elections, that middle 1% is incredibly important.
1, 2, 3%, whatever it is, particularly in swing districts.
And it's my view that those voters are principles first voters.
They want to make the right decision.
And you see that, you know, there is a subset of voters that flip.
And that's why we have Democrats win.
We have Republicans win.
So I think just because we aren't controlling the Republican Party doesn't mean that principles first voters don't have any power in elections, particularly in general elections.
I think that when we go out into the country, not just at the summit, but we do dinners all around the country, people come out in droves.
I mean, these things are sort of over-attended.
People are very hungry to think about politics in this way and make their voice heard.
So what are the principles?
Yeah, sure.
Principles are all the ones that I think any Democrat or Republican, honestly, would recognize.
The rule of law is paramount, that, you know, there is a separation of powers.
The legislative branch legislates.
The executive executes the laws that Congress legislates.
Right now we've got a completely out-of-balance system.
You know, the resources should be responsibly steward.
We shouldn't be profligately spending when we don't need to.
We should be aware of what we're doing to the resources that we have, both now and in the future, so that we can sustain growth and provide for the next generation.
The Constitution, it should be at the core and foundational premise of how we do our politics, that just because you want to do something or punish your enemies, we hear this a lot in our politics today, of whatever it takes, we've got to help our friends, we've got to punish our enemies.
I think that's the populist way of thinking about how to legislate and do politics, that that should be subordinate to some higher-level ideas that our founders enshrined into the Constitution.
So I think, you know, we have 15 of them, but those are just a few that are important to me.
And I think, you know, lastly, I'll say character matters, that, you know, the integrity of the individuals that we elect actually sometimes and many times is more important than the individual policy ideas that they might have, because if the people that we're electing are of poor character and they don't have a fidelity to just, like, truth and honesty, then it almost doesn't matter what they believe, because they're going to get in there, they're going to be corrupt, they're going to protect their friends.
We're seeing this with the Epstein files.
They're going to do what they need to do to help their own and not help the broad swath of Americans that, you know, I think our leaders should be focused on.
Well, let's see if our viewers agree or disagree here.
We invite you to join us in the conversation.
Republicans, 202-748-8001.
Democrats, 202-748-8002.
And Independents, 202-748-8002.
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You can also go on Facebook.com slash C-SPAN or on X with the handle at C-SPANWJ.
How many people are expected to attend the summit starting tonight, this weekend, here in Washington?
We've got about 1,000 registered, which is up from last year, so we continue to grow.
We're a largely volunteer organization, so, you know, we don't do a lot of advertising or promotion.
So it's always exciting to see how many people come from all around the country to get together and talk about the issues facing the country.
Who are the most notable political figures that you'll have on the stage?
We've got a couple of former Republican governors, Chris Christie of New Jersey and Pat McCrory.
We've got George Conway, who's running for Congress as a Democrat in New York.
A lot of the familiar faces in sort of the media, you know.
Michael Steele.
Yeah, Michael Steele, the folks in the Bulwark, Sarah Longwell.
Joe Walsh is a guy that was formerly in Congress.
Connor Lamb, also a Democrat from Pennsylvania, a former member of Congress.
So we're excited about who's come to talk about these things and the challenges that are facing the country.
And we're also encouraged by the mix of, you know, Republicans and Democrats who, in our view, have been principled.
You know, nobody's perfect, but have, by and large, shown a commitment to principled leadership of saying the tough things when it isn't popular.
Sandy's Climate Views 00:15:55
You view this as an alternate to CPAC?
We do, yeah.
Yeah, that's how we started, you know, CPAC, obviously the Conservative Political Action Conference happens each year.
It actually typically happens in the Gaylord, but they're not there this year.
They moved venues, and that's actually where we are this year.
So we've grown into the CPAC venue, which we're really proud about.
But, you know, CPAC has had sort of, you know, I'd grown up going to CPAC in college, a conservative, and over time, you know, with the rise of Trump, but honestly a little bit before the rise of Trump, it had become this sort of grift show where they had, you know, just people that were anti-Semitic saying crazy things.
You know, this Milo Yana Paloulos guy.
They had gold statues of people rolling in the hallways.
It had really strayed away from sort of the gathering of ideas that it had began as.
So that was the impetus sort of for why we started this as a juxtaposition against CPAC to be sort of in dialogue with that craziness in our politics.
And I don't know where they are.
I don't know that they're doing it this weekend.
I don't know when it's happening.
I think it's in March.
Oh, okay.
And C-SPAN, of course, has had coverage of CPAC over the years.
They will be gathering in March.
We will have coverage of the Principal's first summit taking place this weekend in Washington.
Tune in to our C-SPAN networks for that.
Go to C-SPAN.org for more details.
Let's go to John, who's in Henderson, Nevada, Republican.
You are up first for Heath Mayo.
Go ahead.
Yes, I'd like to ask this gentleman about tariffs.
Trump's one of Trump's biggest improvements in the federal government is imposing tariffs on countries.
This is like free money.
I don't know why people don't understand the fantastic future we have with these great tariffs that Trump has put on these countries.
And they're going to be paying us literally billions and hundreds of billions of dollars.
John, did you see the reporting last week and what we shared today that, according to the Federal Reserve's Board of New York, that this is the cost of these tariffs.
90% is being passed on to U.S. consumers and businesses.
And what's the deal on that is that's because the tariffs that he imposed on those countries has to do with protecting American businesses.
So the consumer has choice.
So, in other words, if you have a car that's made in Germany and it's been tariff, you know, whatever, whatever, the price goes up.
Of course, the price goes up.
Good for us.
They can make a decision to open a plant in the United States.
They're good.
Whatever they're producing is not going to be purchased.
Of course, the cost is going to go up.
That's a good thing.
All right, John, a Republican with his thoughts.
Keith Mayo?
Yeah, John, I appreciate the call.
I don't know that we're going to see eye to eye on this one.
I fundamentally believe that tariffs are a bad economic policy.
We've tried them.
I mean, there were folks throughout our political history, you know, read up on the Smoot-Hawley tariff.
I mean, in the early 20th century, early 19th century, we've tried tariffs to protect our industries.
And every time it has led to slower economic growth, inflation.
We've seen that inflation for consumers here in the United States having to pay more.
And honestly, it really does not end up protecting jobs and fostering the type of industry domestically.
It doesn't even do the types of things that President Trump is arguing that it will do.
We just pay more.
And honestly, I'd encourage you, even if you think tariffs are a good idea, why would we be levying tariffs on Canada, our ally, or Mexico?
Why wouldn't we be lowering tariffs on countries that we're friends with to build up purchasing power and strength against our enemies, like Russia and China, so that our sanctions and we can throw that weight around in global markets?
Instead, Trump has inflated tariffs on all of our allies, isolated American markets, and now everything costs more than it did for the American consumer at a time when people are really struggling to pay their bills and inflation has really been killing us.
So I don't know that we're going to see eye to eye on it, but tariffs is actually one policy where I think the Republican Party used to be good on that.
They used to know that big government tax and spend policies were often inefficient and didn't get us to where we needed to go.
But I think the Trump Republican Party has lost touch with that core principle.
Brian's in Albuquerque, New Mexico, Independent.
Hey, good morning.
You know, I like to focus on the future, and I think a big issue that's going to arise and really scramble our politics is climate change, which is very real in spite of what the dear leader says.
For those that don't know it, the snowpack in the western United States is about a third of what it should be this time of year.
And snowpack is the future water supply for the coming summer.
Many of our reservoirs are already low as it is.
And I think in the very near future, we're going to see a lot of these solid Republican states like Utah, Arizona, and other places are going to be running out of water.
So it's going to be fascinating watching these politicians from these states start demanding socialism and U.S. taxpayers spending money to provide water to people to live in the desert.
And it's amazing how this whole era we're in with Trump is because of failures.
Both political parties have had huge failures.
Our relationship with China has been a huge failure in my book.
I mean, here we are at each other's throats threatening to go to war.
And, you know, we just let all of American industry run over to China because they can make a pile of money.
And, you know, it's just been one failure after the other.
Well, the next failure is going to be climate change.
Okay, let's take those points.
Yeah, I mean, I think it's a great point, particularly the emphasis of looking to the future, because I do think we're at a moment in our country with AI and all the stuff that's happening, the shifts in global power politics, that we're at a moment that is in many ways larger than Donald Trump and even our domestic politics.
The world is going to completely change much, much, much faster than anybody realizes.
And I think climate change is a big issue, mostly because of the challenges that we're soon going to face with energy demand and energy production.
China obviously produces a lot more energy than us.
We have kind of held ourselves back by not embracing nuclear energy.
I think to the extent that we're facing a climate change problem and the burning of fossil fuels and the use of fossil fuels being a contributor to that, that the expansion of nuclear energy and rethinking the way that we supply ourselves with energy in this country needs to happen yesterday.
And I just don't think that we've got the type of politicians in Congress who even know or care about these ideas.
And that's part of what Principles First is all about, is getting people who are committed to building America to be strong in its next 250 years.
Sandy lives in Independence, Kentucky.
Democratic caller.
Yes, thank you.
I wanted to ask him what he thinks about today's Senate that we have.
I'm a Democrat, but I feel myself as a moderate Democrat.
But I have never, I'm 81 years old.
I don't think I've ever in my whole voting life seen anything like what's going on in the Senate now, the Republicans, because they won't stand up to anything that's going on in this country today.
And believe it or not, I cannot sleep at night worrying about our country because I have seven grandchildren, and I want them to all, like I have, in a decent place.
So I just wanted to know what he thinks about the Republicans in the Senate right now.
All right, Sandy.
Thank you.
Well, I don't have a very high view of them, Sandy.
I agree with you that there has been a complete lack of courage and leadership in the Senate, particularly in the Republican caucus.
It's as if they all believe the same thing.
You know, they're from all over the different, they're from all over the country.
And whenever a question is presented, inevitably, they somehow always agree with Donald Trump's view.
Even if Donald Trump's position changes, it suddenly becomes the position of every single Republican member of the Senate.
Despite what they might have believed before or professed to believe on the campaign trail, they just fold.
And that is a problem because our founders believed in the separation of powers.
I was talking about this earlier, separation of powers in the Constitution that says the legislative branch is separate and distinct from the executive branch.
Donald Trump should not control the United States Senate and control how Republican senators vote just by virtue of their blind loyalty.
And that is a problem, and you see that problem happening and unfolding in the Senate.
And, Sandy, you're good to point it out because I think that problem, there's a lot of problems.
Climate change, fiscal policy, health care, all of those problems stem from the fact that we have sort of a political malaise with how our system is functioning.
It's sick.
It's broken.
It is not functioning in the way that the founders intended, where each branch would jealously guard against its own prerogatives.
And, you know, the president could veto things, and the legislature could then pass something even over his veto.
And so that's a problem.
I don't know when's the last time we've legislated something like that.
I mean, Congress barely passes anything these days.
So I'm also, I share your concern, I share your worry, and the only way that we're going to fix that is if Americans like you and me and all of us start to break party lines, vote for candidates who are going to buck the trend, even within their own party, and stand up for principles that they believe in.
Even if that means sometimes they disagree with us on policy, if they're committed to American principles, you know, in this political world, that deserves our vote, I think.
This midterm election will be interesting.
Take a look at this from the Washington Times this morning.
I now dread the prospect of winning.
Congress faces exodus ahead of the 2026 midterms.
One in ten lawmakers will leave Congress at the end of the year, the most retirements in more than three decades.
To date, 61 members of Congress, 52 from the House, and nine from the Senate have announced plans to retire at the end of the term or are leaving to run for other offices.
What do you make of this?
Well, I mean, I think it goes back to what Sandy was saying.
I mean, it's not a serious job.
It's become a place, you know, you go to Congress and you just build a name for yourself.
Look at folks like Nancy Mace, who just kind of get in there and do all sorts of crazy stuff.
They film videos of themselves going into bathrooms or doing something crazy so that they can get views and build a profile rather than pass something through Congress.
I don't know how many members of Congress even know how a bill gets passed.
That's how bad it is.
So I don't blame these members that are retiring, particularly the ones that have been here a long time.
They probably are just exhausted with what they've seen happen to the state and tenor of politics and the way that Washington works.
I know some of them, you know, through the grapevine you hear, you know, why some of these people are doing what they're doing.
They'll give different reasons.
We're going to run for this.
But I think fundamentally it is just they feel inconsequential to the way that our government operates.
They don't have any ability to – and this is wrong, of course.
They do have the ability to step out of line and lead.
But they think if they try to do that, they will lose a primary election or lose.
And rather than do that, rather than lead and lose, they're just stepping down and retiring.
So I think it is a symptom of this core illness that our government has, that it is just not working correctly.
We'll go to Don in Salinas, California, Republican.
Your guest there, you know, he talks as if he's a Republican and people who voted for Trump are not Republicans.
Well, I have to submit to him.
You're not a Republican, sir.
I'm sorry.
You, Michael Steele, these other guys, the only power you have is to get Democrats elected.
And when people like you actually get into power, you don't do anything.
You act like Rand Paul.
You just sit there and say, no, I stand on my principles and my ideas.
And you don't do anything.
All you can do is say no.
All right.
Well, Don, he has two points.
First, are you going to try to elect Democrats in the 2026 midterms?
Your group, principles first.
Our group doesn't elect.
We're a 501c3.
We don't endorse candidates.
Me personally, the caller is right.
I'm not a Republican right now.
I'm not a Democrat.
I'm just an independent.
If I were a caller into this show, I would be calling in as an independent.
So the caller is right.
I am not a Republican.
I would not claim to be a Republican.
They are not going to claim me.
So there's no love lost between me and the Republican Party.
Where I disagree with the caller is I'm not just saying no.
I'm frustrated.
I've shed my label as a Republican because I look at what the party is doing.
And it isn't the ideas and policies that I would like to see enacted.
I think the tariffs are contributing to inflation in this country.
I think the Republican Party has said that they were going to do something on health care now for like a whole decade and they've never done anything.
I want us to pass health care reform, right?
I want us to do all of these things.
I want to make it cheaper to own a home in the United States.
I want to make sure that we have the strongest, you know, strongest military in the world, that we're not going around and getting into conflicts on a whim just because somebody didn't give the president a Nobel Peace Prize.
I mean, these are all things that I want the country to do.
I don't want to just say no.
Does he have a point, though, that perhaps the rise of Trump is attributed to career politicians who, in his words, don't do anything?
I think there's a lot of truth to that, yes.
I think that, you know, I think the rise of Trump, you know, we could study this in all different ways and people have.
But I think he's right that, like, the politicians that came before Trump were of a certain vintage of let's be very buttoned up, let's do things behind closed doors.
And the way that Washington operated in that way was not fit for the 21st century that we're in of social media.
And Trump did see that.
Tensions Erupting Within Politics 00:04:27
And he came in, shined a light on it, and opened it up.
And I think that resonated with people.
Unfortunately, he doesn't know what he's doing as president.
He knew how to wield social media and talk a populist game.
And that got him elected president.
And it has built him a following in this country.
But now we need leaders who can operate in this new world of politics and new era of politics, know what they're doing, and actually govern.
So I do think there is something to what the caller suggested.
Heath Mayo is the founder of Principles First.
You can learn more if you go to principlesfirst.us.
Thank you for the conversation.
We appreciate it.
Thank you.
Up next, a conversation with author and investigative journalist Sam Quinones about his reporting on America's overdose epidemic.
We'll focus on fentanyl.
That conversation coming up next on The Washington Journal.
Stay with us.
Today on C-SPAN Ceasefire, as governors gather in Washington for the National Governors Association winter meeting, the conversation continues.
This week, affordability and health care.
Tensions between the bipartisan National Governors Association and President Trump following their annual meeting.
And immigration enforcement, highlighting different approaches from Republican and Democratic governors.
Joining our bipartisan discussion, North Dakota Republican Governor Kelly Armstrong and Delaware Democratic Governor Matt Meyer.
Watch C-SPAN today at 7 p.m. and 10 p.m. Eastern and Pacific, only on C-SPAN.
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This weekend, as the nation celebrates the 250th anniversary of its founding, join American History TV for our series America 250 and discover the ideas and defining moments of the American story.
This week, at 11 p.m., we feature a reenactment of the 1773 debate that took place at Boston's Old South Meeting House, which led to the Boston Tea Party.
At 2 p.m. Eastern, the National Museum of the Civil War in Petersburg, Virginia, hosts a discussion on the decline of the Army of Northern Virginia and the road to surrender in April of 1865.
Later, at 9.30 p.m., Harry Truman's grandson, Clifton Truman Daniel, and Lyndon Johnson's daughter, Lucy Baines Johnson, mark the 60th anniversary of the signing of the Medicare and Medicaid Act of 1965.
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Sunday, on C-SPAN's Q&A, former Washington Post correspondent Will Haygood, author of The War Within a War, talks about the experience of black American soldiers in Vietnam and the struggle for racial equality both in the war zone and back home in the United States.
He also reflects on growing up in Columbus, Ohio during that time, where he experienced this stark divide firsthand as a child.
And I found myself, as a 14-year-old kid, running from National Guard tanks during the riots.
I don't think it was until I really got deep into the research of this book that I realized that these two epical moments in American history, Vietnam and the draft, and then riots, that I saw elements of both through my own eyes.
Author Will Haygood with his book, The War Within a War, Sunday night at 8 Eastern on C-SPAN's Q&A.
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Chemicals Coming Through 00:15:21
Washington Journal continues.
Joining us at our table this morning is Sam Quinonez.
He's the author of The Least of Us.
The full book title is The Least of Us, True Tales of America and Hope in the Time of Fentanyl and Meth.
Thank you for being here.
What is the state of the fentanyl epidemic?
Where are we with this in this country?
Well, there's some good news, actually, in the last couple of years.
What we've seen is supplies of fentanyl coming out of Mexico.
The fentanyl that reaches here illicitly is made in Mexico with precursors, chemical ingredients from China.
There is evidence that those precursors have diminished somewhat due to perhaps agreements between the two countries, pressure by the Chinese government.
And so beginning in about August of 2023, we began to see fentanyl supplies as showing up in the seizures that the DEA and other law enforcement would make.
It begins to diminish along with that, you find also a reduction in overdose deaths.
And that's very important.
It's not necessarily true that there is a reduction in fentanyl addiction.
The supplies being lower means that perhaps some people who are addicted to fentanyl out there have an easier time managing it without overdosing.
However, the really big news is that this decline that began in August of 2023 has continued into the present day.
And the latest CDC figures from this year show that on a 12-month basis, the decline has certainly continued.
And fairly dramatically, several tens of thousands of deaths dropped.
There's still quite a number of people overdosing and dying to fentanyl, but certainly nothing like what there was a couple, three, four years ago.
Did this begin under the Biden administration?
And has the Trump administration continued that pressure on China?
Both.
Both is true.
Both are true.
Yes, it began with, I think, an important moment in all this was an agreement between China and the Biden administration, Xi Jinping and Joe Biden, to really begin to curtail some of the essential precursors that Chinese chemical companies were making and selling very liberally without many constraints,
which accounted for the enormous unprecedented supply of fentanyl that covered really the entire country.
It's an unprecedented thing.
Both fentanyl and methamphetamine, also made with precursor chemicals coming out of China, have covered the United States in the last several years.
And that is an unprecedented thing.
Both of those things, those drugs made in Mexico, but with precursors coming from China.
Now in 2023, the fall, you begin to see that maybe that pressure began to build.
Precursor chemicals began to withdraw, to decline somewhat.
And so then you begin to see the seizures begin to show less fentanyl per dose, you know, and that had not happened in several years.
Why did China decide then that they would start?
I think there's just international pressure.
Sure.
I don't pretend to understand the Chinese government.
However, they have a long history with being the victims of opioid sales, particularly in the 1800s with the opium wars and all that.
The British basically forced China to become addicted to opium.
And I would hope that there's some kind of sensitivity to that.
I think probably more likely is that there is a sensitivity to how they are viewed in the world as just a kind of a wanton purveyor of precursor chemicals.
I don't think anybody really wants to be known as that.
And that's certainly what China was for and continues to be, I should say, when it comes to methamphetamine as another.
These two drugs are inextricably linked in my mind after writing a number of years on this topic because they all come from the same idea that traffickers can make much more money with far less risk by making their drugs instead of growing their drugs.
So you began to see this synthetic revolution in our drug supply in Mexico among the traffickers down there in certain areas.
Because of volume?
Well, what they found was that you can make, yes, you can make far more of it if you have the chemical precursors.
And they did.
They control those shipping ports to the extent they need to to get those chemical precursors.
And then, yes, you can just begin to kind of cover.
And that's what began to happen.
You began to see just, I mean, staggering quantities of both of those drugs being produced.
Now, meth, this whole process started before fentanyl started in 2009, 10, 11, 12, 13, right in there.
And that's when you really begin meth, to see meth taking over them from Mexico, taking over the meth supply.
All those meth cooks you may remember from Breaking Bad and all that, those all got wiped out.
They were just competed out of business by the meth coming up from Mexico.
When it comes to fentanyl, that's a little bit later, 2015, 16, 14, 15, 16, right in there.
But, yes, they're able to produce far more of it.
And with the creation of all these drugs, the supply has created demand, where there might have been some.
Now there's far, far more.
And it's so much more potent, these two drugs, that it's extraordinarily difficult to get off of them.
And that's what we've also seen in the last number of years as well.
Has this president successfully convinced the new president of Mexico to also crack down?
I think the threat, I remember an interesting moment early in the Trump administration with the threat of tariffs.
And that seemed really to do things that I thought were very positive.
I'm not sure lately if they've had the same effect on Mexico.
But I do remember that, you know, the attitude in Mexico, particularly the previous Mexican president, Andrés Manuel López Obrador, had, I believe, a completely irresponsible perspective on this and believing that, well, we don't make this drug, which, of course, is just nonsense.
They make all of it or most of it.
And so it was good to see a Mexican president acknowledge that, yes, they do make all this stuff down there and then get very serious.
And they went about closing a lot of the sentinel labs, which they already knew about.
They could have done before, but they didn't then.
And they extradited a good number and since they've extradited more of these top couples of the drug cartel world, which I thought was also a positive thing.
What I have not seen from either administration is what I believe to be absolutely necessary long term.
And that is a deep, deep collaboration between the two small steps leading to a deeper collaboration.
I think it's a very tense relationship.
Collaboration where?
On the law enforcement side?
Yes, absolutely.
But also, you know, these drugs are coming in, these chemicals, I should say, are coming in in shipping ports.
We need together, the two countries need to establish some kind of inspection protocol at the different shipping ports in Mexico, two principal ones in the town of Manzanillo, Colima, and also in Lazaro Carnas in Michoacan, but also Mexico City Airport for all of those chemicals coming through.
Because as I say, there's no evidence that the precursors to methamphetamine have dropped off, nor the supplies of methamphetamine have really dropped off.
I haven't seen the numbers recently, but the ones I do have show that there's really been no decrease in the amounts of methamphetamine.
Sam Quinones, investigative reporter here with us to take your questions and your comments about the fentanyl epidemic.
Author of the book, The Least of Us, other books as well on this issue.
Join us now this morning by dialing in Republicans 202-748-8001.
Oh, excuse me, we've changed the lines for this.
Let me do that again.
Impacted by the drug crisis, 202-748-800.
Medical professionals dial in at 202-748-8001.
All others, your line this morning is 202-748-8002.
And you remember, you can text with your comments as well at 202-748-8003.
Sam Quinones, why U.S. ports?
Why is that the favored way to enter this country?
Well, I should have said, the ports through which the precursor chemicals are coming are Mexican.
Okay.
We share a 2,000-mile border with Mexico.
We have a free trade agreement, which has done, it depends on your perspective and where you're focusing, a lot of damage or a lot of very good stuff.
It's up to you, up to people who have different perspectives on that, for sure.
But through the decades in Mexico has formed a very robust culture of drug trafficking, a very highly specialized, a lot of division of labor.
Some people do just this, just that.
And, you know, there's lots of people involved in it.
There's lots of people who are involved in it and then leave and then come back.
You know, it's a very, it's kind of a roiling ecosystem of drug trafficking and drug production and drug smuggling and all that.
And I think that that is what is really does not exist anywhere else in the world to the extent that it, the knowledge, the background, the experience that people have in Mexico.
Some folks, obviously most of the country does not traffic drugs, but there's a significant percentage that does, particularly in the western side of the country, has really learned how to manipulate the border, where to go, how to use immigrants, how to use police and military to co-op them, corrupt them, et cetera.
All of this is part of this kind of roiling ecosystem of trafficking that you have down in Mexico.
Describe the daily attempts to smuggle drugs into this country.
Well, the thing about it is that there is no one way.
I mean, there's so many, many ways of doing it.
And you see this beautifully, I think.
I find it fascinating.
There's a Twitter feed of the Customs Board of Protection in Nogales, Arizona.
They have been wise enough, nice enough, wise enough, I thought, to put out all the times when they seize drugs and where they have been, say, in a car or a truck.
Almost any part of the car or truck can include, they can figure out a way of doing it.
I would also say, very important in all this, is that they mention all the seizures of assault weapons going south, right?
Bought here.
The Mexican drug world has thrived on our assault weapons, purchased here and sent south.
So every so often, they will, it's probably not their main job, but I think they're very keen to stop the ammunition and the weapons.
And you can see the weapons, and they show the pictures of it.
You can see this drip, drip, drip of weapons.
Not enormous seizures, not big rigs full.
It's normally weapon seizures.
Weapon trafficking is normally in small quantities because you need to hide them.
But it's a remarkable thing.
I would urge people to follow the Customs of Border Protection at Nogales, Arizona, to just see.
And then go back through the archives of what they have published.
It's remarkable.
And it comes in the buttocks of people.
It comes in the canned goods, toys in the carburetor.
It's just a remarkable amount of energy and innovation, if you want to put it that way, that goes into it.
C-SPAN Networks went to Laredo, Texas, a number of years back.
And we were allowed to go with Customs and Border Protection and parts of the Homeland Security Department to see how they try to nab these drugs and the people that are coming.
They are short-haul and long-haul truck drivers.
This is another way that we learned about that the drugs are coming over.
So you have Mexican drivers that are allowed to go from their country into the U.S. to hand off to the long-haul drivers.
Yes, also another, that's also true, that's true, certainly.
Another way that I found very interesting is musical groups and their buses.
And also buses of tourists crossing over for a day or two or whatever.
Those buses frequently have been used as places, you know, to hide it in the truck, I'm sorry, in the bus itself or in the luggage of some of the people.
One person I talked to described going on those buses where everybody on the bus was paid to be on the bus to pose as a passenger with bags and all the rest.
And the drugs were hidden somewhere else, not in their luggage, but anyway, if it can cross, you know, I would say most of it, though, comes in the form of vehicles.
You cannot account for the nationwide spread of methamphetamine and fentanyl on the body of people.
It's just, the amounts are too large.
So it's really vehicles where you're getting multi-kilos.
You cannot store multi-kilos of fentanyl or meth on either of these on a human being.
It's just too obvious, you know.
So most of this is coming from vehicles.
Just consumer vehicles.
A car, well, if it's a vehicle, you know, car, truck, bus, you know, I mean, I've seen it all, all of that and probably more that I haven't seen.
Widespread Painkiller Prescribing 00:11:45
All right, well, the calls are here for you.
The lines are lighting up.
So, Tony in St. Louis, Missouri, go ahead.
Hey, how are you doing, Sam?
Good.
I first started doing heroin in 1999.
Okay.
And I remember, I guess about, you're pretty right about your years, 2016 is when the fentanyl came in my area in St. Louis.
Yeah.
And I wish I would have stopped then because the fentanyl high is totally different than the heroin high.
But right now, I'm going to my daily methadone clinic.
I'm a recovering addict.
The only thing that's ever helped me has been methadone.
And I love all your input and knowledge that you have about the situation.
I love watching you.
You have a good day, Sam.
Well, thank you.
I would say that he mentions methadone.
There are three medical treatments for opioid addiction.
Now, it's important to understand fentanyl is an opioid like morphine, like heroin and all the rest.
Because it's a much more potent and hits the brain much more quickly.
It happens to be a wonderful anesthetic, a stalwart tool of anesthesiologists since the 60s.
I had a heart attack eight years ago.
They gave me fentanyl.
And in the surgical setting, fentanyl is a revolutionary drug.
The reason being that if you give it to people, it has a very quick life in the brain.
So you can give it to people.
They'll go out.
Once the operation is over, you take it off.
You kind of reverse it.
And within minutes, they are back to lucidity, as I was, which is not like morphine.
Morphine, you are doped up for several hours.
It's a far more dangerous drug.
Fentanyl is wonderful that way.
But that very same quick-acting part of fentanyl is why it's such a damaging drug on the street.
Because traffickers, dealers know that their customers have to buy constantly.
And the addicts know, too, that they use now.
But within an hour and a half, two hours, they're going to have to be using again.
With heroin, it's far longer.
But with fentanyl, it's a remarkable thing.
And so it's always struck me as how we see the benefits of fentanyl are incontrovertible and, you know, unanimously agreed upon.
And the damage in the wrong hands is also unanimously agreed to.
Jane in Lacey, Washington, medical professional.
Jane, share your thoughts with us.
Yes, I've been in the physical rehabilitation space, like physical therapy, occupational therapy, for over 40 years.
And when I first became a professional, opiates were heavily discouraged in the population, both workers' compensation and regular population.
Then about the 90s, the medical profession took on opiates.
It's like, they actually prescribed it as, they first started, I think, with cancer patients.
And then they said, yeah, let's give it to everybody.
It's no big deal.
And that is what I think kicked off this latest round.
Oh, I agree completely.
That's the topic of my book, Dreamland, which got me into all this.
That's exactly, the caller is exactly right.
That's exactly what happened.
There was this idea among pain management specialists and some doctors and, of course, pharmaceutical companies who made these legitimate pharmaceutical painkillers that we needed to make far, far greater use.
This would begin in the mid-90s, as she says, a greater use of these to control pain.
Up to then, there was enormous fear of using these drugs because they were known.
You know, opium, we know two things about it.
It's a wonderful painkiller, and it is highly addictive.
In the mid-90s, we came to the conclusion that, at least for pain patients, that it was the risk-free.
There was no risk of addiction because they were in pain and this kind of thing.
And what that meant was, and many of your listeners out there, I'm sure, have lived through this or known people who have lived through this, is that there was this widespread, ever-escalating prescribing of legitimate pharmaceutical painkillers, Vicodin, Percocet, in the mid-90s.
It was OxyContin by the company Purdue Pharma is released to the market, and this just takes off like an airplane leaving the tarmac.
This kind of level of prescribing just goes and goes and goes.
And the role of the Sackler family?
The role of the Sackler family was to revolutionize marketing of their one drug that they really didn't make any other drug besides OxyContin, which was a time-released form of an old opioid that dates to World War I.
And this drug, OxyContin, was marketed as if it were non-addictive for anyone who was in pain.
That proved not to be true, and science did not know that at all, even though that was the claim.
And so you begin to see this supply creating this enormous new population of opioid-addicted Americans, which did not exist in the early, early, early 90s.
And very dramatically, you begin to see deaths rise.
You begin to see requests for treatment rise.
All of this rises kind of at the same time, and it's really like the subject of my book Dreamland, which is my entryway into all of this topic, you know.
Kind of crazy, but that's what it was.
We'll go to Aaron, who's in Pomona, California.
Pomona!
Go ahead, Aaron.
Mr. Quinones, how are you doing, man?
Oh, very well.
My mom taught in the Pomona Unified School District.
She was my elementary teacher for two years before she passed away.
Oh, my God.
She was the greatest instructor I've ever had in my life.
She has impacted my life significantly to this day.
So, anything this man is saying, I'm on.
Wow, I can't believe it.
Thank you for the book of poems that you have sent me.
Now, I don't want to keep on tuning this man.
His parents were great.
But I do want to talk about the I-95 corridor and the fact that a lot of these, a lot of drugs are coming in through the ports.
And when I was in college, I did a report, and it was like less than 1% of these containers are checked.
So, you can imagine the amounts of drugs that are being transported.
Yes.
And then again, the Sackler family, it's just a big mess.
But once again, Mr. Quinones, thank you, man, for being.
No, I, my mother was a.
Oh, I'm sorry.
I thought he was done.
Go ahead.
Speak about your mother.
Please get in touch with me.
You can find me at my website, samquinones.com.
Feel free.
My mother was a, in the 1970s, was an elementary school teacher in the Pomona Unified School District at North San Antonio Elementary School, and I occasionally, I'm sorry.
Yeah, that was really powerful for you.
I'm not supposed to cry on Washington Journal.
My mother was a wonderful, wonderful teacher.
I've had many students, just like your caller, come up to me or contact me through email or whatever, telling me how she, I mean, you know, basically how she changed their lives.
This is kind of the message, and I would expect that, I would hope Tony would get in touch with me, and I would love to be in touch.
I've been in touch with, oh, 10 or 12 of these, mostly through Facebook and email and what have you.
Is your mom instrumental in the work that you've done here?
Only by being a complete fan of journalists.
She loved, she was really enamored with Woodward and Bernstein.
We grew up, like, she would talk endlessly about those guys, even though we're out in, we grew up in Claremont, California, right next to Pomona, right?
And I just, I watched the hearings, I watched Walter Cronkite every night with my mom and dad, you know, when I was growing up, and I was like 9, 8, 9, 10, whatever.
And so I remembered that hallowed profession after I graduated from UC Berkeley without really ever really thinking about what I was going to do, and gradually kind of moved into, I'm sorry, moved into journalism, and it's been doing this for 38 years, and my fifth book now, this book about the tuba and all that.
So it's also, weirdly, this book turned into kind of an antidote to the other two, but it's going to throw me through a loop a little bit.
Yeah.
Well, let me ask you about your work, though, investigating the opioid.
No, you're all good, investigating the opioid epidemic, because you're exposing the cartels.
Have you been put at risk through your work?
No.
No.
You know, I am a, I am a, a, a, a, a, a coward.
I, I've had some issues with drug traffickers down in Mexico.
My, my previous books, my first two books were about Mexico.
One of them, the last, the second one, I, I, I, I wrote the encounter, my encounter with the narco-Mennonites.
There's a whole group of old world Mennonites in northern Mexico, and a percentage of those Mennonites are very, very deeply involved in drug trafficking.
It's very surprising.
It surprised me, too.
That's why I thought it was a great story, you know.
I go down there to investigate it, and getting all involved in, and they run me out of there, the most terrifying moment of my, of my life, and, excuse me, and, but with, with the opioid thing, first of all, I make liberal great use of jails and prisons.
Jails and prisons are great for a few reasons, like doing interviews.
One, you know where the people are.
They're not moving.
Number two, it's safe, which is a top priority of mine.
But number three, what I have found is when you talk to people in prison, very often, not always, but very often, they have become far more thoughtful about their path in life.
Reflective.
Oh, yes.
And also, one reason why it's a great place to go is, is because, yes, they have thought about it, and they are, they're more articulate, you know, and, and so I routinely, for years now, if I have any story that involves people that might be incarcerated, I write to them.
Hey, you want to talk to me?
And you'd be surprised.
Just, not a great number, but it's about the same number that, that contacts you for direct mail marketing, you know?
It's about six to ten percent they'll get back to you, because the main, one of the main things is, many of them do not want to be forgotten.
And I found that, and so in the Dreamland book, there's eight or ten Mexican traffickers that I contacted entirely through the federal prison system in the United States, not wanting to go down to Sinaloa to get involved with these guys, you know what I mean?
We'll go back to calls.
Renee in Iowa.
Go ahead.
Good morning.
Thank you for taking my call.
Xylazine's Impact 00:14:19
I am an inpatient medical coder, and just recently, the diagnoses code set that we use for coding inpatient hospital states has added exposure to xylazine, which is a, yes, which is added to fentanyl, and I have coded one of those cases.
It was not fun.
So I have a question about that, and then I also have a question, is it because of the wider availability of Narcan that opioid deaths have decreased?
These are two very good questions.
Xylazine is a veterinarian anesthetic sedative for animals.
Like a tranquilizer?
Yes.
It's been added to fentanyl in the last, what's it been, since 2022 or something like this?
I'm sorry.
I forgot the years exactly.
You saw it first in Philadelphia, moving then to different parts.
You saw it in Knoxville, Tennessee.
I think Baltimore, a place like that.
Again, this is all part of this larger realization among traffickers that there's a whole world out there online of drugs that have been created for consumer use, but that never got sold because they were not really good, they were not saleable.
And so, or they have a very limited use, as with large animals, for example, or animals with xylazine.
But that they have, I'm not always sure of the motivation because the chemists who do this are underground and who knows who they are.
What does she mean when she says she coded this?
Meaning that probably she was registering that these drugs were in the body of someone that she was treating.
I think.
I think that's what that means.
I'm willing to be corrected on that, but xylazine began showing up, I think, because it prolonged the withdrawals.
So it made it more difficult for you to get off fentanyl.
On the other hand, it was a remarkable thing, and it showed you just how deeply these drugs thwart the survival instinct in human beings, because particularly you would see this in Philadelphia where you would see people with open wounds do to xylazine.
It would create these open, you see the bone, you see flies, and it was just, I mean, ghastly.
And people would still be like, no, I'm fine.
Oh, I'm good.
No, the treatment, no, I'm okay.
Terrified of going through withdrawals and afraid of being away from the drugs and all this kind of stuff.
And you would see this, and it was a remarkable expression of what these drugs do to thwart treatment, and that is to squelch or mute our basic instinct for survival.
And to me, that was, I mean, I already knew this, but when you see people with weeping wounds and bone exposed and all these kind of horrid scars and everything, you kind of understand that what they are saying is not reality.
They are obedient to the drugs, and that's what they're saying.
When I'm fine, I don't need anything, I'm good, you know.
No, that's the dope talking right there.
With regard to Narcan, Narcan has been very important in all this.
Narcan is the, I would say, kind of a beautiful tool, a miracle drug that reverses an opioid, only an opioid overdose, and takes the opioid off of the brain receptors, and so you kind of wake up.
Does that include fentanyl, then?
Yes, fentanyl.
The difference, though, with Narcan is on heroin is that it requires one or two doses.
When it's with fentanyl, it requires many, most four, five, six, seven, depending on how much fentanyl you've actually ingested.
I would say, though, that I do not believe, Narcan's a very important tool, essential tool.
I carry it in my book bag, which I have back there.
I carry it in my toiletries, and I carry it in my car, but it is not a solution to addiction, not a long-term solution to addiction overdose.
It is a revival one time.
It's like a Band-Aid, very, very important in that moment, but there are many people now who have overdosed numerous times on fentanyl, been revived each time.
Are you carrying it because you're talking to drug users?
Yeah, and because it's so widespread that you never know when you might find someone just fall out, like maybe at an airport or something.
I mean, this happens.
I've never seen this, but I never want to be in a situation where it might happen and I'm not armed with some Narcan.
I know I think it's a very, very important tool, as I said, and I've been doing this for a number of years now.
It's just that it is not the solution, nor do I believe that it is the reason for the decline.
It's a reason, but the most important reason, in my opinion, is that the decline of supply of fentanyl has really been dramatic in those years.
Where we started this morning.
Yes, exactly right.
All right.
Let's go to Heartland, Wisconsin.
Patricia, good morning to you.
Good morning, and thank you for taking my call.
I'm 84 years old.
I've seen this supply problem go on for seven generations, and I worked as a, when I was a student for nursing in the 90s, I also worked for five years on a rehab in a small hospital.
Now, my big question is, it's wonderful what Mr. Quinones has been doing, and millions of people have been doing, including bombing ships.
Come on.
Where is the work being done for demand?
Oh, I think, I think, yes.
Yeah, we'll talk about that, Patricia.
Thank you.
And I think that that's an important part of this.
I don't think, with regard to fentanyl and methamphetamine, it is the instigator in all this.
I do believe it's the supply.
But I think more and more, I tell you this, when I wrote this book, Dreamland, I was confronting a situation in this country where, first of all, nobody wanted to talk about that.
It was very much like the early days of the AIDS epidemic.
Your loved one dies, the last thing you want people to know is that he died of a heroin overdose or an opioid overdose of some kind.
And, you know, I put in the thing that the subtitle, True Tale of America, is opiate epidemic because nobody knew what an opioid was.
There were no lawsuits against drug companies.
And so the book comes out, and all of a sudden, something happened we did not expect in my household that all of a sudden people began to, came out of the shadows to want to tell their stories.
And with that, that was one of the great grassroots political movements of our time, except there's no press spokesman and there's no president of the union and all this.
It's just people gradually moving out into the light from the darkness with the sheltering this one dark secret.
They thought it was dark secret.
And now they begin to talk more openly.
And what you begin to see is a total transition over the, I would say, 2006 to 17, 18, 19, those years, a total transformation of the debate and the dialogue over this.
It becomes far more open and also people willing to understand or willing to consider new ideas when it comes to this.
And part of it, part of the new ideas that are really considered are new ways of dealing with the expansion of treatment, I think, of a focus on prevention.
That's kind of what my tuba book is a little bit about, was to say we need to think about how to stop people from using drugs in the first place.
But we are a different country.
As all those rehab workers and social workers and all that who might be listening, who have been working like so hard for so many years, I want you to understand that the country has changed profoundly since I wrote that first book.
I have seen it with my own eyes.
I have lived it.
And all of that that the caller was referring to is dramatically transferred.
There may not be enough of the treatment that we need for this kind of addiction.
There may not be enough on the prevention side, certainly.
But it's really such an important change.
And I want to encourage them not to lose hope, to understand that what they are doing matters.
And it's a patriotic thing.
The country needs people like that, like your caller and so on, because it is nationwide.
It's a thing that goes across the country.
And, of course, because it involves human beings and we all have the brain chemistry.
Every one of us, you, me, everybody has the brain chemistry to be that addict eating from the trash.
Our next caller comes from Standardsville, Virginia.
Dewey, good morning to you.
Good morning.
How are you doing, Mr. Kronos?
And how are you doing, young lady?
I'm doing fine.
Question or comment here for our guest?
Yes.
The question I have for you, sir, is you had a comment earlier about, which, by the way, I love what Trump is doing.
Thank God for him.
You mentioned about Mexico, how they were going down there and getting rid of the fentanyl lab, which is great and it needs to be done.
But my question for you is, on your opinion, what do you think that should be done about the, you know, the meth labs and the cocaine labs?
Should there be something to go after those guys, too?
Because that's another problem.
Well, that's a good question.
And I would say with regard to meth, I think the same kind of approach to, first of all, it's Mexico that went after the fentanyl labs.
But at the pressure, due to the pressure put on them for tariffs by the Trump administration, no doubt about that.
I would say the same thing needs to be done with methamphetamine.
I think it works longer term better with a collaborative approach.
On the other hand, it's very difficult.
There are a lot of historical reasons why we suspect the Mexicans and the Mexicans suspect us and it gets in the way of collaboration.
But to me, maybe I'm being naive, but I lived in Mexico for 10 years and worked and went all over the country.
And it really feels like there is no other really long term solution except for that we approach this as a binational problem and address it with equal responsibility.
Up to now, the Mexicans have in no way shouldered the responsibility for the production of these drugs, particularly during the last presidential administration.
We have in no way shouldered the responsibility of the effect those assault weapons have on creating the impunity among those people to be able to create, produce all those drugs that are all across this country killing and addicting Americans.
We'll go to Horace, who's in Sherwood, Arkansas.
Good morning to you.
Good morning, Greta.
Thanks for C-SPAN.
Yes, Sam.
I was recovering.
I've been sober, clean and sober for 32 years, man.
Congratulations.
Way to be.
Yes, sir.
Thank you.
I wrote a book about it.
The Autobiography of Horace Paul Hobson, Jr.
How rehab helped me get off a dope and helped me to see life in a different way.
Good.
I went to rehab three times.
The first time was to save my marriage.
My wife still wound up divorcing me.
The second time was to save my job.
I still wound up getting fired.
The third time was to save me.
And that was the key to all of it.
Right.
Yeah.
Well, I think that rehab is very important.
It's also very important to understand that failure is a frequent part of rehab.
I think to any addictive drug.
I used to smoke.
I quit nine times before I quit, quit forever.
And that was in January 1996.
I haven't smoked ever since.
And so rehab, you're dealing with the most profoundly mysterious thing, which is the human brain and the reward pathways.
And all of it is very individualized.
So what might work for the caller may not work for many other people.
And that's why it's very important to have a wide range of treatment options.
Does it ever work when you're doing it for someone or something else?
It frequently works best, I think, when you are about to lose something very important.
Your freedom, your children.
Strangely, it does not seem to matter if you're about to lose your life, as we saw with, we see in Philadelphia with xylazine and all this, and fentanyl and everything.
But when you're about to, and one of the differences, I would say that we're talking about drug addiction pre-fentanyl.
What fentanyl has shown is that almost nothing really will get you away from fentanyl except being separated.
Time.
Yeah, physical separation.
I have a newsletter, which is, by the way, at samquinones.substack.com.
People can go there and look me up.
I just ran an interview with a fellow called Jorge from Florida who was very highly addicted to methamphetamine.
And really, the only thing that allowed him to break from all that was separation from the drug for first 18 months in jail and then another 18 months in a kind of an isolated rehab facility.
And all of this, you know, his brain was able to take time to heal.
Also, when he got back out to the same, returned to the same county where he'd done those, most of the drug world had changed.
Gary's Struggle with Fentanyl 00:06:02
Most of the people had either been arrested or died or whatever.
And so he didn't know any drug connects anymore.
All of this was part of his own.
And to me, some of these two drugs, in particular, with extraordinary potency and extraordinary availability nationwide, you kind of need that break separation that is, you know, unwilling separation at first.
In his case, he did not want to be.
If he had been allowed to be out a year into his jail term or his rehab, he'd have run back to it, he told me.
But three years of that was kind of enough for him anyway to break away from it.
Moorfield, West Virginia.
Gary is calling from there, impacted by the epidemic.
Go ahead, Gary.
Yeah.
How are you doing?
I've been clean for 32 years.
Congratulations.
Nice job.
Thank you.
And, yeah, but, you know, just like you said, it takes you have to do it.
Nobody is.
You don't do it for anybody else except yourself.
That's right.
I've been through the 12-step program, and I've had different meetings, and I keep seeing them in and out, just like a revolving door.
They go out for a while.
They get busted.
They go to jail.
They come back, get out, go back and find it, you know, and like you were talking about with methamphetamines.
They've got so many rolling labs.
You'll never stop it.
It's been going on, you ought to know, especially out of South America, coming up here.
Everything's been coming here through the years.
They know how to get it in.
They sacrifice.
They'll sacrifice five tons just to get 100 tons of it in.
So you know how.
Gary, let's take that last point.
Let's take that last point.
Yes, you know, this is also true.
It is produced in staggering quantities down in Mexico, and there are remarkably devious ways of getting it across.
Yes, they'll call in a tip line and say, hey, you got a truck coming through.
All the law enforcement will converge on that one truck.
Meanwhile, others are.
And that driver, by the way, is sacrificed.
That driver is a pawn.
He ends up doing 20 years for crossing the stuff without ever knowing that he got tipped by the same people who hired him.
You know, it's a devious world.
I do believe this in response to one of the things the caller said, that you do have to do it yourself.
It's absolutely essential for you to be ready for treatment.
The problem that we're finding today is, the question we're finding today is, where do you find that readiness?
It's so difficult to find that readiness on the street.
That's why so many outreach workers come to people on the street, xylazine wounds, and people in L.A. just, you know, in the horrible conditions.
Hey, I got these treatment options for you, all this kind of stuff.
No, no, I'm fine.
I'm fine.
I'm fine.
Finding readiness is essential, but you cannot.
I think history has shown, previous few years have shown, that it's very, very difficult to find readiness for treatment on the street today, given the remarkable quantities of fentanyl and methamphetamine that are out there and in such staggering potency.
Dan in Georgetown, Massachusetts.
Morning to you, Dan.
Good morning.
Thank you for having me on.
I wanted to talk about a breakthrough treatment that's been around the planet for tens of thousands of years.
And I think humans have been consuming this for also tens of thousands of years.
It's psilocybin treatment.
Yeah.
I want to tell you that I understand that there is that treatment.
I also want to tell you that it's, I have not really looked into it.
I have not studied.
I do need to.
I want to be able to study.
I've been involved with this other book about tuba players and band directors as kind of the antidotes to all this.
And so I'm sorry.
I, you know, certain things just, I'm one person.
And I'm just kind of, so the whole psychedelic idea that you can use psychedelics to treat certain things, particularly like this, is entirely possible.
I don't know much about it.
What are you watching for next on this epidemic front?
Oh, I guess, you know, well, I think whether the, the focus on fentanyl will be transferred as well to methamphetamine because methamphetamine is coming in such enormous quantities and such staggering potency that it is creating or exacerbating mental illness and homelessness on the streets of America.
I really believe that our, our, our, our real problem of homelessness and mental illness began to grow when the huge quantities of methamphetamine with staggering purity.
It's like 95% meth in one, it used to be 50, 50 years ago with the, with the meth cooks.
They didn't know what they were doing.
Now these guys out of Mexico know what they're doing.
95% pure meth that is driving people to symptoms of schizophrenia, psychosis, horrible delusions and paranoia.
And it is creating homelessness and, or, and of course, exacerbating if you're homeless for whatever reason, and there are many, many reasons why people might be homeless.
Once you start using meth, it is a very, very difficult situation to get you out of homelessness because you're no longer a rational.
And it's, there's some, I think, evidence to show that it does almost semi-permanent brain damage as well, that you need long periods of time to, to recover from it.
So I'm really hope this is something that counties across this country, towns and counties across this country are dealing with that does not get the headlines that fentanyl does because fentanyl is so lethal.
Breakfast with Governors 00:13:24
Sam Quinones, author of dreamland and the least of us, you can follow his reporting and learn more.
If you go to Sam Quinones.com, he has a sub stack there.
Thank you for the conversation.
Oh, on the contrary.
I love C-SPAN.
Wonderful questions.
Thanks to all the, the callers out there.
It was wonderful being with y'all.
Yeah, it was great insight.
So thank you so much for that.
We're going to take a break.
When we come back, we'll be in open forum.
You can react to the news of the day this morning, dial in at 202-748-8001.
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On this episode of Book Notes Plus with our host, Brian Lamb.
For his book, Five Bullets, attorney Elliot Williams wrote 95,720 words.
On the back of the cover of the book, writer Garrett Graff sums up the story this way, quote, never has a book about the 1980s felt more like current events than Elliot Williams' journey back to one of America's most notorious shootings when Bernie Getz opened fire in a crowded New York City subway, unquote.
Then Garrett Graff continues his analysis.
Five Bullets is a haunting examination of our nation's complicated fascination with vigilantes and the politics of crime, close quote.
A lot of the people who are instrumental to this story are deceased.
However, the man at the center, Bernie Getz, is still alive at 78 and still lives in New York City.
A new interview with author and attorney Elliot Williams about his book, Five Bullets, the story of Bernie Getz, New York's explosive 80s, and the subway vigilante trial that divided the nation.
Book Notes Plus with our host, Brian Lamb, is available wherever you get your podcasts and on the C-SPAN Now app.
Today on C-SPAN Ceasefire, as governors gather in Washington for the National Governors Association winter meeting, the conversation continues.
This week, affordability and health care.
Tensions between the bipartisan National Governors Association and President Trump following their annual meeting and immigration enforcement, highlighting different approaches from Republican and Democratic Governors.
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This is the Wall Street Journal with the latest on the economy.
Economic growth slowed in the fourth quarter, hurt by the government shutdown.
The U.S. GDP grew at 1.4% annual rate in 2025's final quarter.
Also, this morning, the Hill newspaper reporting on the president's meeting with governors at the White House today.
We shared with you that they are in town.
Trump attacks on Democrats cast shadow over this governor's meeting that's happening this morning.
We've learned that Governor Wes Moore, Democrat of Maryland, who was not invited to the dinner at the White House this weekend with all the other governors, along with Jared Polis, those two governors not invited, he will be at this White House meeting.
The Breakfast with Governors happening at the White House soon.
And you can watch our coverage over on C-SPAN 2, C-SPAN Now, our free video mobile app, and C-SPAN.org.
And there is the shot up at the White House on your screen, the president meeting with governors there.
The president also commenting on the economy this morning in the Truth Social post.
The president had to say this, the Democrat shutdown cast the U.S.A. at least two, cost the U.S.A. at least two points in GDP.
That's why they are doing it in many form again.
No shutdowns.
Also, lower interest rates.
Too late, Powell is the worst, says the president this morning on Truth Social.
The government is in a partial shutdown for the Homeland Security Department.
The rest of the government agencies, including some agencies at the Homeland Security Department, are open.
No agreement is in the works as of now.
Lawmakers have been out of Washington this week in a recess.
Let's go to Linda in Texas.
Independent.
Linda, what's on your mind this morning?
I was a little bit on hold to, I wanted to make this statement as an encouragement for people who do need to be on medications such as Ritalin, methamphetamine, because you are ADD or ADD-HD.
I wasn't diagnosed to lapdo.
I failed a year of school.
I got tested.
And I've been struggling the year prior to that.
I was a child.
I was only in fifth grade.
And I am still on ADD medication at the age of 70.
I'm in my 70s.
And it's needed.
It's not a, you know, you can do without it type medication.
And it's my ability to pay my bills, to remember things.
ADD is a real situation.
And that medication does work.
And it is hereditary.
I have at least one child that is also ADD.
Okay.
All right, Linda, I'm going to leave it there.
The governors and cabinet members have come to attention there over at the White House, standing from their seats.
We're expected to hear from the president.
He'll be addressing the governors having breakfast with them.
Let's listen in.
Well, thank
you very much, everybody.
Thank you very much.
And I guess we're going to be asking the press to leave.
That way we're going to talk very candidly and take questions, I think, at the end.
It wasn't supposed to be.
I just said to Susie, what about questions?
Sir, you can do whatever you want.
I don't know if she says that to other people that she's represented over the years.
But thank you very much for being here.
It's a great honor.
And the media, thank you.
You can leave now.
Thank you.
President Trump at breakfast with the governors.
You heard him there saying that he's going to deliver some remarks and then take questions from the room, not from the media, and then asking the media to leave.
So the president meeting with the governors this morning, and as we told you, there was supposed to be a White House dinner with governors, Republicans and Democrats.
The president uninvited two of the Democrats, Wes Moore and Jared Polis.
And most Democrats have said that they, Democratic governors said they're not going to attend now, that those two were uninvited.
And so that's happening this weekend here in Washington because the governors are in town for the National Governors Association winter meeting.
And we have coverage of that gathering on our C-SPAN networks as well.
Go to C-SPAN.org for all the details.
Mike, in Glen Oaks, New York, a Republican.
We'll go to you, Mike.
Good morning.
Hi.
Can you hear me?
Yes, we can.
Hi.
I actually wanted to call about, trying to call about the guest you had on, Sam, talking about the opioid.
And I guess, I guess, did he mention fentanyl?
I was just trying to call in.
We talked about fentanyl, yeah?
Yeah.
And, you know, these things, not in my community where it's, you know, happening all the time.
But I don't know if he, I just saw the last part of it, if he talked about where these drugs were coming from.
Yeah, he was talking about the precursors for fentanyl are coming from China, and then the drug is made, produced in Mexico.
I see, because I thought that most of these drugs were...
In Louisville, Kentucky, Democratic caller, Marty.
Good morning, Greta.
Good morning.
I have a question for you concerning that new dining room that Trump says he's going to build.
But before I mention that on this, Andy Beshear is one of the governors that boycotted that governor's meeting.
But I was just wondering, has you or anybody there in Washington Journal ever actually been to anything in the White House?
Do you all get invited to any of those dinners or press conferences or parties?
Well, when there's media availability, when they're open to the media, yes, C-SPAN cameras have been there, can be there, yeah.
Okay, yeah.
I'm just wondering, you know, because they come to see you all over there.
I just wonder if you all go over there.
All righty, thanks.
All right, Marty.
Mike, Salinas, California, Independent.
Hi, Mike.
Good morning.
I wanted to call when Sam, the guest on fentanyl, is talking, but I still want to leave a comment.
I had never heard of the fentanyl fold before, and I was on my way to an event with my 40-year-old daughter, 40, I didn't say four, in the city of Oakland, and she was showing me stills on the Internet in the Tenderloin District of San Francisco of the fentanyl fold.
And it was kind of shocking.
These folks were gathered on a public street, and they looked like human plants.
And four hours later, we're coming back from this event, and we're on public transit, and she says, hey, Dad, right across the aisle from you, there's somebody to see
it with your own eyes.
I probably would have liked to, you know, you call and have them talk about it.
But unfortunately, that didn't happen, but it's called the fold.
All right, Mike, thank you for the call this morning.
In other news, front page of the newspapers this morning, this is the Washington Post.
Arts panel made up of Trump appointees has approved his White House ballroom proposal.
The federal panel made up of President Donald Trump's appointees has approved his plan to build a massive ballroom on site of the former White House East Wing.
That's the front page of the Washington Post this morning.
Barry, old Bethpage New York, independent.
Barry's Thoughts on Trump's Plans 00:04:32
Barry, let's hear from you.
Good morning, Greta.
How are you today?
Good morning, Barry.
What's on your mind?
Okay.
Sure.
Well, you know, very, very important subject to talk about the addiction.
And I just want to commend President Trump for what he's doing.
People are not giving him credit for this.
What I really wanted to mention, though, is the fact that the people, the scientists that understand the addictive nature of things, the receptors in the brain, are also the scientists that are working in our food industry, making our food very addictive.
And you don't hear enough about this.
I mean, if you look at a slice of the population, say, from 1970 at a beach, and you look at a slice of the population today at the beach, it's like two different planets.
And that's because the scientists were able to manipulate the foods and make them extremely addictive.
But yet, you really don't hear about, you don't hear people talking about this.
And I just wanted to bring that up.
Well, which type of foods, Barry, are you talking about?
You're talking about processed foods with chemicals in them.
Mostly, yes, mostly, of course, it's the processed foods.
So what about the effort by the HHS Secretary, Kennedy?
He's talking a lot about processed foods.
Exactly.
And this is exactly what we needed all along.
And Kennedy is only there because of Trump.
And I think it's a great, great development that Kennedy is in there doing this.
I know he's catching a lot of flack from Democrats because he's associated with Trump.
But this is extremely important.
I mean, the drug addiction problem is very, very important.
But how many more people are addicted to food?
All right.
Barry with his thoughts in New York.
Thomas in Blakeslee, Pennsylvania.
Hi, Thomas.
Hi, Greta.
How are you doing?
Morning.
I just want to talk to the people out there that I don't know why they have this hatred or animosity to people considered as Democrats.
Because if I'm looking at the people out there, how many of you are getting your Social Security?
How many of you people are getting your Medicare?
How many of you people are getting your Affordable Care Act when it was possibly for them?
The whole idea is that it was Democrats.
It was Franklin D. Roosevelt that gave you Social Security.
It was a district, Lyndon Baines Johnson, that gave you your Medicaid and Medicare.
It was Barack Obama who took the concept of a plan for Mitt Romney, who was looking for affordable health care for Massachusetts, took that concept of a plan and made it nationwide.
So I don't understand these people who are standing up here talking about the Democrats when your Social Security and your Medicaid was put for you by them.
All right.
Thank you.
Thomas, this morning from Pennsylvania.
Front page of the newspaper is this morning on Iran.
This is the New York Times.
The U.S. has military ready for option of striking Iran amassed in the Middle East.
It's the New York Times' look at military operations and steps taken by the Trump administration.
And then there's this take on it in the Wall Street Journal.
Iran is in negotiations, Iran is in negotiations but prepares for U.S. war.
Facing its biggest threat in decades, the regime tries to lift odds of survival.
Those are two stories to share with you this morning from the national newspapers and listen to President Trump speaking about the potential next steps with Iran during his inaugural Board of Peace meeting yesterday.
As you know, Iran is a hot spot right now in their meeting and they have a good relationship with the representatives of Iran.
And, you know, good talks are being had.
And it's proven to be over the years not easy to make a meaningful deal with Iran.
We have to make a meaningful deal.
Otherwise, bad things happen.
But we have to make a meaningful deal.
So now we may have to take it a step further or we may not.
Maybe we're going to make a deal.
You're going to be finding out over the next probably 10 days.
President Trump, yesterday at his inaugural Board of Peace meeting, if you are interested in hearing what he had to say at that Board of Peace meeting, we covered it here at C-SPAN.
So go to our website, C-SPAN.org, download our free video mobile app, C-SPAN Now, to follow our coverage today, tomorrow, and in the coming days.
A Father's Touching Story 00:02:13
Mark in Manchester Township, New Jersey, Independent.
Hi, Mark.
Good morning, Greta.
Thank you for taking my call.
I was very touched by that phone call that you got from the gentleman that was commending that guest that you had, his mother.
Yeah.
Because I have similar stories with my dad.
I grew up in New York City Housing Authority, and my dad had two jobs my whole life.
And we were very much involved in Little League.
And my father always was the person that was down on the field, chalking the field up, and, you know, just being there for all us kids and the projects growing up.
And over the years, I've had a lot of my friends reaching out to me.
And I get choked up about this because my dad was my best friend.
My parents were my best friend.
And a lot of my friends say to me, Mark, you know, it was a blessing that your dad was there all the time for us.
And it warms my heart so much that they reach out to me.
But I wanted to just say a really quick story of what happened at a reunion party that we had years ago.
One of the guys that I used to play baseball with, he was very popular in the neighborhood.
And he came up to me, and he said to me, you know, Mark, he said, your dad was a lousy umpire, this and that.
And he really trashed my dad and everything.
And I looked over to him, and I said, you know what, John?
I said, where was your dad all these years that everybody, you know, used to praise my dad for being down there?
And where was your dad?
Your dad was never down there helping those kids out when we were young.
And my father, when I told my father this story, he just like, I seen his chest just like come out.
And he was so happy and so proud of me that I put this guy on the spot and, you know, put him in his place pretty much.
Because, you know, he just trashed my dad.
And my dad was, you know, he might have made a few bad balls and strikes and whatever the case may be.
Dad's Unspoken Contributions 00:02:34
But you know what?
My dad was there all the time.
All right.
Mark, I'm going to leave it at that point.
Thank you for sharing the story.
Larry in Bowling Green, Kentucky.
Hi, Larry.
This is open forum, isn't it?
It is.
Okay.
One, I hope with the Edstein files, with Prince Andrew being arrested, I hope he's a stool pigeon and we can finally find out the vicious circle.
The drugs and everything.
I don't think your guest is an expert.
We need the DEA.
On top of that, we need...
Larry in Kentucky, with his opinion this morning, he mentioned at the top the arrest of the former prince, Prince Andrew.
And that's the dominating front pages of the newspapers this morning.
Listen to President Trump's reaction when he was asked about it by reporters on Air Force One.
I have a question about something big.
Overseas today, the former Prince Andrew, arrested by the police there, related to something with Jeffrey Epstein.
Do you think people in this country at some point, associates of Jeffrey Epstein, will wind up in handcuffs too?
Well, you know, I'm the expert in a way because I've been totally exonerated.
That's very nice.
I can actually speak about it very nicely.
I think it's a shame.
I think it's very sad.
I think it's so bad for the royal family.
I think it's a very, very sad.
To me, it's a very sad thing.
When I see that, it's a very sad thing to see it and to see what's going on with his brother, who's obviously coming to our country very soon, and he's a fantastic man, the king.
So I think it's a very sad thing.
It's really interesting because nobody used to speak about Epstein when he was alive, but now they speak.
But I'm the one that can talk about it because I've been totally exonerated.
I did nothing.
In fact, the opposite.
He was against me.
He was fighting me in the election, which I just found out through the last three million pages of documents.
President Trump reacting to the arrest of Prince Andrew yesterday.
You can talk about that news as well in open forum here until the top of the hour.
Senator Cornyn's Primary Challenges 00:03:16
We're also waiting this morning to see if the Supreme Court makes a decision on President Trump's tariff policies, his emergency declaration that he made on some countries raising tariffs on them.
And we'll see if they make their decision or announce their decision today.
That could happen around 10 a.m. Eastern time after the 10 o'clock hour.
If they were to make that decision today, we will be live here on C-SPAN with your reaction to the court's decision.
We'll talk to a Supreme Court reporter.
We'll talk to a markets reporter as well.
If that decision is released today by the Supreme Court.
Also, C-SPAN programming that you should know about.
The today Republican Senator John Cornyn is campaigning in Edinburgh, Texas, near the U.S.-Mexico border.
As early voting begins for the Texas primary elections, Senator Cornyn is facing two GOP challengers in the March 3rd primary.
So coming up, watch his remarks live starting at 12.45 p.m. Eastern on C-SPAN, C-SPAN Now, our free video mobile app and online at C-SPAN.org.
And then also today, 7.30 p.m. Eastern time, Texas Republican Attorney General Ken Paxton, who is challenging John Cornyn campaigns for this U.S. Senate seat at a rally in Richmond.
His challengers in the March 3rd primary, in addition to Senator Cornyn, also include Congressman Wesley Hunt.
And so the three of them are squaring off for the GOP nomination in this Senate race.
And of course, on the Democratic side, you have James Tallarico and Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett trying to get the Democratic nomination.
So watch live 7.30 tonight on C-SPAN 2, C-SPAN Now or C-SPAN.org.
This afternoon, the opening session of the National Governors Association's winter meeting is taking place.
This year's chair is Oklahoma Governor Kevin Stitt, and the vice chair is Maryland Governor Wes Moore.
They'll make opening remarks, followed by panel discussions on political opinion polling, how AI and philanthropic investments can advance the American dream.
And watch live at 145 right here on C-SPAN.
Tonight, 7 p.m. Eastern time on C-SPAN.
We're joined by Republican North Dakota Governor Kelly Armstrong, Democratic Delaware Governor Matt Meyer during the National Governors Association winter meeting for a bipartisan dialogue on top issues facing states and the country, including affordability, health care and immigration enforcement.
Watch ceasefire 7 p.m. Eastern and Pacific only on C-SPAN.
Next week, on Tuesday, President Trump will deliver the annual State of the Union Address to a joint session of Congress, which will include an update on the economy, immigration and other administration policies.
Our live coverage will begin at 7 p.m. Eastern time on the C-SPAN networks.
Following that, Virginia Governor Abigail Spanberger has been announced as the Democrat giving the response to President Trump's State of the Union Address.
And we will, of course, have coverage of her remarks.
Back to your calls.
Michigan Independent's View 00:11:09
Linda in Central Square, New York, Independent.
Hi, Linda.
Amber.
Hi.
How are you today?
Morning.
Good morning.
Yes.
You know, I'm not real good with speech, but what I would like to say is in New York, we are not interested in having detention centers holding immigrants in our state.
And I believe in unity and that that builds strength in our communities.
And President Trump seems to be a divider.
And what my prayer would be is that he would turn course and try to unite the country and use more what he would call common sense, that we would use more common sense in our diplomacy around the world and with our Democrat, Republican, and independent parties that we have, and to believe that everybody is human.
Don't dehumanize people because we're all human and we all deserve the same rights and freedoms as anyone else in our society.
All right, Linda.
And John in Great Barrington, Massachusetts, Democratic caller.
Yes, good morning.
I'm calling about the so-called ballroom project of President Trump.
The mainstream corporate media seems so far to have almost completely neglected the underlying story, both literally and figuratively.
The main story there is not the $400 million ballroom.
It is the bunker that's going to go underneath to replace the former bunker.
There is a very well-documented information online by a young woman.
Her name, the name of her website is the Dre Dossier, Dre spelled D-R-E-Y, dossier, dossier.com.
She's done extensive investigative research on this.
There are all kinds of public documents.
Which strongly indicate that the main purpose of the ballroom is to be a lid over a huge underground, eight-story or more bunker making a data center, a huge data center.
Okay.
This has huge public policy implications.
It is something that can be another trigger for nuclear war.
The mainstream media, like the New York Times and the Washington Post, should be on this.
All right, John.
We'll go to Joe, Flint, Michigan, independent.
Yes.
Good morning, Greta.
Morning.
I would just like to express my opinion on the so-called governor-president meeting going on right now.
As far as I'm concerned, the minute he decided that some governors couldn't come, all governors should have said, we're not coming either.
Also, when he said the press has to leave, then those governors, again, everybody should have gotten up and walked out.
That's all I got to say.
Bye.
Joe in Flint, Michigan, with his thoughts there.
The Kentucky Governor Andy Beshear reacted to the news of the White House disinviting two Democratic governors.
This is traditionally a bipartisan gathering with the president at the White House.
Here's what he had to say.
One of the reasons that these meetings are so important is that if governors are the people on the ground getting results and getting things done, talking to your federal government, talking to your president or especially the cabinet secretaries or head of agencies can be really important.
I remember in the Biden administration having a lot of good conversations that spawned action where we were able to get things done faster.
I remember going up and also complaining about some things.
I remember that, too.
Yes, I think I was in your office several times.
But that's what this bipartisan tradition is about.
And I will say that the NGA has operated that way, has stayed above the fray better than many organizations.
But this year, as invitations were going out, we learned that at least two of our governors, Jared Polis from Colorado and Wes Moore, were not invited.
That's not OK.
Those are two good governors.
One is being pressured to issue a pardon, which no president should ever be doing to a governor.
The other, the president apparently doesn't like.
He's our one black governor in this country.
And he's not invited.
So when I heard that, it was a pretty easy choice for me.
I stand with Wes.
I stand with Jared.
If we're all not invited, I ain't going.
Governor Andy Beshear yesterday.
Rosa in Thomasville, Georgia, Democratic caller.
We have a few minutes left here in open forum.
Yes.
Good morning, Greg.
How are you?
Good morning.
I just want to make two comments on the guest that you had, Sam Quinones, about the drugs.
Yep.
And I think that, you know, people need to look at why people are using the drugs.
The demand for the drugs are there.
And I think there may be some connection between a lot of young people on social media and not being able to face reality has a lot to do with that.
I mean, it's a complicated thing, I know, but it has to be the individual person.
The other comment that I have is about President Trump mentioning that he's exonerated from the anything on the Epstein case.
I don't know that anybody has been exonerated.
How is he exonerated?
There has not been a trial of any kind with anyone.
Thank you very much.
Okay.
Anthony, Detroit, Michigan, Independent.
Hello.
Good morning.
Good morning.
I was interested in, you know, on the C-SPAN website, looking at all the different videos from the program Washington Journal.
And I was looking at the videos, most viewed of Washington Journal's videos, and I thought that was really interesting.
It's an architect of 9-11 truth is his cause.
And I think that's really important and under-discussed, or it's kind of been swept under the rug.
I mean, it's probably one of the most obvious false flags in our history.
And, I mean, it affects everything from the creation of homeland security to all these wars that we've had for 25 years.
And it's just so obvious.
I mean, look at Building 7.
How did that thing fall?
So, I think we should talk about that more.
All right.
Anthony's opinion there in Detroit.
Walter, Newton Grove, North Carolina, Democratic caller.
Walter, go ahead.
Yes.
My concern has to do with the start of all this.
I know from fraudulent intent, when people commit fraud in the United States, anything they do thereafter is all fraud.
So, if I have a problem, my problem is I've been over this for the last, ever since Donald Trump got into office.
And it started off with campaigns that had Steve Bannon, Elon Musk, and Donald Trump talk about we don't need your votes.
And I was wondering why we didn't need his, they didn't need our votes.
Well, I went and checked it out.
According to electiontruthalliance.org online, their independent auditing agency that actually audits all elections, they audit all seven key swing states during that election.
They also show key points where there was a lot of ballot stuffing.
And the idea that when Pamela Harris had 11 million votes and Donald Trump had 14 million votes, Kamala Harris's votes went down.
They don't usually go up.
So, that's what made them want to want to investigate this situation.
All right.
Walter, we have got to run.
So, we'll leave it there for now.
The conversation continues on The Washington Journal every day at 7 a.m. Eastern time.
We'll see you then.
Enjoy the rest of your day.
Former Republican Senator Ben Sasse recently talked about
his faith, mortality, politics, and the future of the country in a conversation after his recent diagnosis of stage 4 pancreatic cancer.
The interview is part of the Uncommon Knowledge web series hosted by Peter Robinson and produced by the Hoover Institution.
You can see it in full tonight at 8 Eastern on C-SPAN.
C-SPAN Now, our free mobile app.
Or online at c-span.org.
C-SPAN is as unbiased as you can get.
You are so fair.
I don't know how anybody can say otherwise.
You guys do the most important work for everyone in this country.
I love C-SPAN because I get to hear all the voices.
You bring these divergent viewpoints.
And you present both sides of an issue.
And you allow people to make up their own minds.
I absolutely love C-SPAN.
I love to hear both sides.
I watch C-SPAN every morning.
And it is unbiased.
And you bring in factual information for the callers to understand where they are in their comments.
This is probably the only place that we can hear honest opinion of Americans across the country.
You guys at C-SPAN are doing such a wonderful job of allowing free exchange of ideas without a lot of interruptions.
Thank you, C-SPAN, for being a light in the dark.
At our table this morning, Heath Mayo, who is the founder of Principles First, here to talk about your organization and your sixth annual grassroots summit here in the nation's capital.
What is Principles First for folks who need a reminder?
Sure, yeah.
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