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Jan. 27, 2026 06:59-10:03 - CSPAN
03:03:49
Washington Journal 01/27/2026

Washington Journal (01/27/2026) unpacks Trump’s abrupt ICE pullout from Minnesota after two fatal shootings, amid Senate Democrats’ threats to block $55B Homeland Security funding—risking a shutdown by January 31. Polls show 48% oppose labeling Alex Predi a terrorist, while calls reveal partisan divides: Republicans blame Democratic-run cities for enabling illegal immigration, while Independents like Ben from Minneapolis call the surge an "overreach." Meanwhile, experts debate tariffs ($1,700/year household cost hikes) and debt-fueled spending, linking affordability crises to housing, healthcare, and stagnant wages. Fitch’s Citizens Handbook reveals in-person advocacy remains the most effective tool, despite systemic challenges, as Trump pivots to Iowa’s economy—while Senate votes on anti-abortion campus policies and House races looming by September 30th. [Automatically generated summary]

Participants
Main
a
alex padilla
sen/d 19:36
b
brittany madni
17:38
g
greta brawner
cspan 52:33
n
natalie baker
13:37
s
susan collins
sen/r 07:23
Appearances
a
alexander vindman
01:31
b
brad sherman
rep/d 03:47
d
don bacon
rep/r 00:39
d
donald j trump
admin 02:57
k
karoline leavitt
admin 01:31
r
raja krishnamoorthi
d 01:57
r
robin kelly
rep/d 01:29
w
wayne paul
00:33
Clips
a
al green
rep/d 00:04
b
ben ray lujan
sen/d 00:04
e
eugene vindman
rep/d 00:20
j
jared moskowitz
rep/d 00:02
m
michael mccaul
rep/r 00:29
p
patty murray
sen/d 00:15
r
ro khanna
rep/d 00:02
s
sean duffy
admin 00:07
Callers
bob in new york
callers 12:39
josh in arkadia
callers 00:20
mark in california [2]
callers 09:53
rodney in arizona
callers 05:10
tim in california
callers 00:28
tony in alexandria
callers 13:24
|

Speaker Time Text
A Formally Independent DOJ Weaponized 00:15:01
unidentified
In the U.S. House.
You can also watch live coverage of these events on C-SPAN Now, our free mobile app, and online at c-span.org.
C-SPAN, Democracy Unfiltered.
We're funded by these television companies and more, including Comcast.
The flag replacement program got started by a good friend of mine, a Navy vet, who saw the flag at the office that needed to be replaced and said, wouldn't this be great if this was going to be something that we did for anyone?
tony in alexandria
Comcast has always been a community-driven company.
This is one of those great examples of the way we're getting out there.
unidentified
Comcast supports C-SPAN as a public service, along with these other television providers, giving you a front-row seat to democracy.
Coming up on C-SPAN's Washington Journal, Natalie Baker with the Center for American Progress and Brittany Madney from the Economic Policy Innovation Center discuss Trump administration economic policies and messaging on affordability.
Then-former Congressional Management Foundation CEO Brad Fitch talks about the second edition of his book, Citizens Handbook for Influencing Elected Officials.
Washington Journal starts now.
greta brawner
Good morning and welcome to the Washington Journal on this Tuesday, January 27th.
After two fatal shootings and days of protests in Minnesota, President Trump has signaled ICE agents will begin leaving the state today.
According to the Washington Post, polls and sinking support has changed the White House's tone.
This morning, we want to know from you, has the Trump administration's immigration crackdown gone too far?
Democrats, 202-748-8000.
Republicans, 202-748-8001.
Independents, 202-748-8002.
Minnesota residents, you dial in this morning at 202-748-8003.
All of you can text if you don't want to call at 202-748-8003, include your first name, city, and state, or post on facebook.com slash C-SPAN and on X with the handle at C-SPANWJ.
The Minneapolis Star Tribune with the headline about what will happen in Minnesota today, according to the mayor, Jacob Fry, after a phone call with President Trump, federal agents will start leaving today.
The president spoke to the Minneapolis mayor as well as the governor, Tim Walz, yesterday, and both sides said it was a productive phone call.
Also from the newspapers this morning, The Hill, with the headline that Caroline Levitt at her briefing yesterday distancing President Trump from rhetoric by the Homeland Security Secretary Christy Noam and the president's top aide, Stephen Miller, on the killing of Alex Predty.
The New York Times is reporting this morning that President Trump met in the Oval yesterday with the Homeland Security Secretary, along with her top aide, Corey Lewandowski, for two hours after Ms. Noam requested the meeting with the president.
From the briefing yesterday, Caroline Levitt, when she's asked about the rhetoric from Christy Noam on Alex Predi calling him a domestic terrorist, take a listen.
To follow on Gabe's question, Secretary Noam said Alex Predty committed an act of domestic terrorism.
karoline leavitt
Stephen Miller labeled Predty a domestic terrorist.
unidentified
Does the president agree with them?
karoline leavitt
Look, as I've said, I have not heard the president characterize Mr. Predty in that way.
However, I have heard the president say he wants to let the facts in the investigation lead itself.
Was he alarmed to hear his top officials referring to him in that way, rushing to that judgment?
unidentified
Go ahead.
Thanks, Colin.
greta brawner
Caroline Lovett at the White House yesterday when asked about the rhetoric on the killing of Alex Predty this morning.
Has the Trump administration's immigration crackdown gone too far?
Take a look at a YouGov poll that was done on January 25th based on what you know.
Was the shooting of the man in Minneapolis justified or not justified?
The 20% of people polled said it was justified.
48% said it was not justified.
While 32% said they were not sure.
That is a YouGov poll conducted after the shooting.
We're asking about the immigration crackdown.
Has it gone too far?
Your thoughts on that.
Also happening in Minnesota today, the president has sent Tom Homan, the border czar, to Minnesota to be the lead there.
From Punch Bowl News, they report that the federal agents will begin to party Minnesota today after Trump's sudden dramatic gear shift on immigration.
And among them will be Border Patrol Chief Greg Bovino, whose days strutting blue city streets in his faux military coat seem to be over.
His boss, DH Secretary Christy Noam, has also been sidelined.
And a new sheriff, Border Czar Tom Homan, is headed to Minneapolis today for clear-the-air meetings with Democratic leaders.
For Noam, it's nothing short of a public humiliation pushed aside from her department's highest profile operation following the fatal shooting of Alex Predty and following her ill-judged response.
Laura in Tucson, Arizona, Democratic caller, will begin with you this morning.
Has the immigration crackdown gone too far?
unidentified
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
greta brawner
And what would you say was where, at what point did it go too far?
Was it with Rene Goode or was it before the fatal shootings in Minnesota?
unidentified
It was before both of them.
robin kelly
They're picking up kids.
They're going in people's homes.
They are not following the law.
They're lawless.
Complete lawless.
greta brawner
Well, the administration says, and supporters say what they're doing is following the law.
Congress wrote these laws for ICE to enforce, and that is what they're doing.
robin kelly
No, ICE is not going after the criminals.
When they're waiting in court to pick up people who have been following the law and who have been here for years and years and are productive citizens already.
No, they're not following the law.
The administration is lying.
greta brawner
Okay.
Peter and Florida and Independent.
Peter, what do you say?
mark in california [2]
I think that the Trump administration retreating like this is making a mistake.
This is all scripted.
Everything's scripted.
Who's paying for all this?
josh in arkadia
The shootings were terrible, and I'll admit it's a bad shooting.
But in the same sense, Minnesota, it seems like, is relying on the illegal vote.
tony in alexandria
You look at the Somalia daycares.
bob in new york
You look at all this.
greta brawner
How do you know that, though, Peter?
What evidence do you have of that?
That that's the motivation?
mark in california [2]
Okay, I'll give you the evidence.
josh in arkadia
Of all the things in the United States that have been going wrong, health insurance, everything.
How do you develop protests like this without a lot of money?
tony in alexandria
This isn't grassroots.
bob in new york
People are being busted in all over the place.
That's what's happening.
greta brawner
Okay.
bob in new york
You look who cleanse OP.
tony in alexandria
Why don't you bring him on?
bob in new york
He's been undercover with all these protesters.
It seems 60 Minutes doesn't have time to do this.
NBC doesn't have time.
You had one-the-wall propaganda.
mark in california [2]
That's what we're seeing.
greta brawner
All right, Peter's thoughts there.
An independent in Florida and says this is a mistake for President Trump to change his tone and his actions in Minnesota.
The National Papers this morning using the word retreat on the president's decision to begin removing ICE from Minnesota today.
The Wall Street Journal editorial board on the Trump administration's deportation policy write this this morning, that it started out at the beginning of 2025.
87% of ICE arrests were immigrants with either a prior conviction or a criminal charge pending, according to ICE data obtained by the Department Data Project.
Only 13% of those arrested at the beginning of 2025 didn't have either a conviction or a pending charge.
But the criminal share of apprehensions has declined as the months have gone on.
By October of 2025, the percentage of arrested immigrants with a prior conviction or criminal charge had fallen to 55%.
Since October, 73% taken into ICE custody had no criminal conviction, and only 5% had a violent criminal conviction, according to a Cato Institute review of ICE data.
That's the Wall Street Journal's editorial this morning.
Mass deportation by the numbers.
ICE arrests aren't growing, but fewer are growing, but fewer have a criminal history.
Kathy in Colorado, an independent.
Kathy, good morning.
susan collins
Good morning.
Has ICE gone too far?
Yeah, ICE has gone too far.
Trump has gone too far.
And especially Stephen Miller has gone too far.
I'd like to know when Trump abdicated the presidency to Stephen Miller.
And it is ridiculous.
It went way too far from the beginning with the ICE, with the masked ICE agents.
They look like ISIS or Hamas militants running around this country.
Of course, everybody is scared.
And when you get eight or ten of them around your vehicle, like Ms. Good did, and one says, get the F out of the car, heck yes, I'd be taken off too.
I'd be driving away.
Even in Colorado, we are told if you are stopped and you do not know who it is, you are allowed to go on because we have had police officers impersonated out here.
So, yes, I think she was justified in what she did in trying to get away from it.
greta brawner
Kathy in Colorado, an independent there.
Will, Baltimore, Democratic caller.
What do you say, Will?
unidentified
Good morning.
mark in california [2]
Thank you, C-SPAN.
bob in new york
Yes, absolutely.
mark in california [2]
Donald Trump has lied to the people.
bob in new york
He said he was going to deport violent criminals.
mark in california [2]
He's going after hardworking individuals based on their skin color.
bob in new york
They are being pepper sprayed needlessly.
mark in california [2]
They are not properly trained and they lack restraint.
With that said, please don't show up at these protests with firearms.
Even if you have a license to carry, and it's your right, it's poor judgment to do so with these goons and how aggressive they've been with the protesters.
I believe Mr. Predty would still be alive today had he not carried a weapon into those protests.
bob in new york
And I'm not saying he's at fault for Don.
mark in california [2]
He had every right to go home to his family.
But understand, these people aren't properly trained.
Leave your firearms home.
unidentified
Thank you for taking my call.
greta brawner
All right.
Well, Washington Post headline, as polls show sinking support, White House changes tone on ICE tactics.
Trump initially responded combatively to Predty's death by calling him a gunman and posting a phone photo of the licensed pistol.
But he did not go as far as Noam or Miller, and he sounded more equivocal Sunday when he told the Wall Street Journal, I don't like any shooting.
I don't like it.
Senator Ted Cruz and Governor Greg Abbott of Texas urged the White House to change its tone on immigration enforcement, while other Senate Republicans, including Jerry Moran of Kansas and John Curtis of Utah, called for independent investigations.
Senate Homeland Security Committee Chair Rand Paul said Monday that the heads of immigration and customs enforcement, customs and border protection, and U.S. citizenship and immigration services should testify before the panel.
That's the Wall Street Journal this morning.
Listen to California Democratic Senator Alex Padilla, the top Democrat on the Judiciary Subcommittee on Immigration, Citizenship, and Border Safety, speaking out against further funding for Homeland Security and ICE.
alex padilla
They talk so much about the dangerous violent criminals they claim to be going after.
There's actually agreements with state and local law enforcement in Minnesota for those that are in detention, but that's not where they're going.
They're going into communities.
They're rounding up people who may be undocumented, but don't have a criminal history.
Clearly, they're rounding people up who are lawfully present.
They're not just shooting, they're killing United States citizens.
And what's the administration's response?
Oh, you have complete immunity.
No, that is not how we do things here in the United States.
We have laws.
We have a constitution.
We need to have justice.
We need to have accountability.
And that's what this budget fight is.
It's not just a matter of money.
How can you in good conscience continue funding a department without the guardrails of protections?
We need independent investigations.
Anybody who's been in government for more than a year knows this.
It happens at the local level, happens at the state level.
If there's an officer involved shooting, you need an independent review of what happened for purposes of accountability.
Short of an independent administrative review, you bring in the Department of Justice.
But we don't have that under Trump.
We have, you know, from Secretary Noam on down, people just saying yes, sir, whatever he wants.
A formally independent Department of Justice has been weaponized.
And so people need other resources.
And this is one of ours, to leverage their funding for some of these reforms.
Chicago's Voter Decision 00:16:32
greta brawner
California Democratic Senator Alex Padilla yesterday saying Democrats in the Senate are going to refuse to support a measure that would fund the Homeland Security Department.
Now the Immigration Customs and Enforcement ICE is under the Homeland Security Department.
Washington Times with the headline this morning, ICE fight starts another shutdown showdown with Democrats demanding reworking of the Homeland Security funding bill.
You'll recall it was approved by the House last week.
It now is before the Senate.
And today, the Senate returns to Washington to begin debating what to do next on funding this Homeland Security measure.
Democratic senators appear united that they will not support the legislation to fund the Homeland Security Department unless it is reworked.
Now, the Wall Street Journal this morning says that this threat would be a partial government shutdown.
It's now more likely.
And they write, Congress is running out of time to pass a sprawling appropriations package before funding for much of the federal government expires at 1201 Eastern on Saturday.
Senate Democrats say they won't support the bill without changes to the provisions regarding homeland, raising the risk of a partial shutdown this weekend.
And you also have this headline from the New York Times.
Democrats embrace a shutdown fight they had hoped to avoid.
Has the Trump administration's immigration crackdown gone too far?
George in Chicago and Independent, good morning.
bob in new york
Yes, I would like to know if resisting arrests is the constitutional right now and if a cop stops in Nova County, just run.
greta brawner
And your point, George?
bob in new york
Well, my point is you take these shootings in Minneapolis, George Freud, Michael Brown in St. Louis.
They all resist arrest and then things go downhill.
greta brawner
Okay.
Melvin in Chicago, Democratic caller, Melvin.
unidentified
Good morning.
How you doing?
greta brawner
Good morning.
bob in new york
This is what I'm trying to figure out.
Now, in each city, each state, they have warrants.
Says like to me that I should be able to get warrants for certain people that they're going in certain states to look for.
unidentified
First, start off with the criminals.
Start off with the criminals and then work your way down to the people that overstayed the visas that I hear and then work your way up to people that are following the law.
bob in new york
They're going to the center to report in to see if they can become citizens or whatever.
And they deserve a little waiting period.
But now, there's no gang members all in LA, Chicago, wherever.
Why they don't have warrants for the gang members, the people that they let out the penitentiary safe, and then they go out and do something.
unidentified
They already on record.
bob in new york
Why you don't just go and arrest the criminals first?
How are you going to arrest a criminal when you go to a daycare center?
You go up into the high schools.
Those are not the people they're looking for.
They say they're arresting the criminal element.
Get rid of the criminals first and then go for the other ones that's been lacking, not reporting in, overstayed their visas illegally here or whatever.
unidentified
I just don't understand it.
bob in new york
I know we have enough electronic computation to find out what's happening with all these people in all these cities.
greta brawner
Okay.
Well, Melvin, let me jump in because Tim Walz, who's the governor of Minnesota, Democrat, writes today in the opinion pages of the Wall Street Journals, federal officials are lying.
My state's corrections department honors all immigration detainees.
And this is what he writes.
There is not a single documented case of the departments releasing someone from state prison without offering to ensure a smooth transfer of custody.
Some of the administration's claims are ridiculous on their face, he writes.
For example, it claims that 1,360 non-U.S. citizens are in Minnesota prisons.
The truth, our total state prison population is roughly 8,000 and only 207 of them are non-citizens.
You can read more in the Wall Street Journal this morning from the Minnesota governor.
We'll go to Melvin in Chicago.
Democratic caller?
bob in new york
Yes, Debbie.
greta brawner
Oh, I'm sorry, Melvin.
Let me move on.
Chuck, who's in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, Republican.
bob in new york
Yeah, I think what we've forgotten is that the Democrats were the ones who created this whole situation by allowing millions of people illegally to cross into our country, which makes them lawbreakers.
unidentified
Now, you have to decide.
bob in new york
People of this country have to decide.
Are we a country of laws?
Are we a country of democracy and mob rule like we have in Minnesota?
And that's the overriding question of all this.
And clearly, the governor and the mayor have sided with the criminals and not with the laws of this country.
And that is the truth of all of this.
We have a representative republic here.
We don't have a democracy.
greta brawner
Okay.
And Chuck in Pittsburgh, a Republican, with his thoughts this morning.
CBS News with the headline, Republican Chris Medell exits Minnesota governor's race, calls federal retribution on the state unconstitutional.
Republican Chris Medell is ending his campaign for governor of Minnesota, saying that he cannot support the national members of his party and their retribution on the citizens of our state.
Take a listen to what he posted on X yesterday.
brad sherman
Today, I announced the end of my campaign.
I have two primary reasons for this decision.
Number one, I cannot support the National Republican stated retribution on the citizens of our state, nor can I count myself a member of a party that would do so.
I support the originally stated goals of immigration's and customs enforcement's Operation MetroSurge in locating and deporting the worst of the worst from our state.
And I've seen many examples of ICE arresting non-U.S. citizens in Minnesota convicted of serious crimes, including murder, rape, and child sexual assault.
No reasonable person should want these people here, and I am glad that they are gone.
But Operation MetroSurge has expanded far beyond its stated focus on true public safety threats.
United States citizens, particularly those of color, live in fear.
United States citizens are carrying papers to prove their citizenship.
That's wrong.
ICE has authorized its agents to raid homes using a civil warrant that need only be signed by a border patrol agent.
That's unconstitutional, and it's wrong.
Weaponizing criminal investigations against political opponents is unconstitutional, regardless of who is in power.
Republicans and Democrats alike have engaged in this misconduct, and both must be held to the same standard.
They need to do better.
greta brawner
The Republican nominee candidate for governor in Minnesota dropping out of the race over what is happening in his state.
John in Lake Geneva, Wisconsin, an independent.
What do you say?
Has the Trump administration's immigration crackdown gone too far?
mark in california [2]
First off, I take offense with C-SPAN and your verbiage, how you call it, a crackdown.
It is the federal government following legally passed and constitutionally passed laws of the United States of America, of which I've been a citizen for 62 years.
It is an governmental enforcement of the laws that are written and currently on the books, and there's nothing illegal about it in my mind.
Now, if I was to protest and go out and stand on a street corner with a sign and with a bullhorn and a whistle and whatever else, that's perfectly acceptable under the First Amendment and the rights to free speech.
Okay, the minute I step off the curb or take my vehicle or in any other way, fashion, or form, try to impede a law enforcement agent, whether it's a federal agent or a state or local agent, I am now a criminal, just like the people they are trying to apprehend and deport from the country.
I grew up in a family who has many law enforcement people that were employed in my small South City and even other parts of the state of Wisconsin.
And when you interfere, you know, it's the law.
You're no longer a peaceful protester when you're, you know, and the mask, the mask thing, Greta, and the other thing with the masks.
Well, how come all the protesters are wearing masks?
You know, I don't understand the positions, just like the representative from California, Padilla.
You know, they didn't say anything about masked people for years.
greta brawner
Okay.
unidentified
No, I'm not sure.
greta brawner
Hey, John, let me ask you, why do you take issue with the word crackdown?
The administration, I mean, the president ran on an immigration.
mark in california [2]
That's why I voted for him.
I'm a right-meaning independent, and that's why I voted for him.
They're doing what I'm doing, and you guys, you know, you cite polls.
You can make a poll, you know how polls work.
greta brawner
Yeah, they're just, right, they're a snapshot in time.
mark in california [2]
Snapshot, and by however you can word anything in a poll, you can get whatever answer you want to make the poll lean one direction or another.
It's no different than where I was last night in my city council meeting.
unidentified
You know what?
mark in california [2]
And there was the state laws in the book.
Well, you may do this.
You may do that.
You know, there's no black and white, it seems, in government, to be honest with you.
But I just take offense with a lot of the people that are protesting.
They have the legal right to do so.
Just like that gentleman that got shot.
Two American citizens have been killed in Minneapolis.
You know, where have the Democrats been for the last five years when there's hundreds of people every single year, thousands of people, Americans, getting shot by other Americans in the streets of these Democratic-run cities, sanctuary cities, and they don't enforce the laws that they have there.
I mean, the whole thing is just, it's absurd to me, Greta.
I just don't understand the outrage right.
greta brawner
John in Lake Geneva, Wisconsin, independent caller there.
You heard John talk about the California Senators, Alex Padilla, saying they are not going to fund ICE and border patrol.
That's the headline in the Sacramento Bees paper this morning.
Other headlines from across the country also are the Orlando Sentinel in Florida, Judge Mull's halt to ice push in Minnesota.
There was a hearing yesterday, and the judge is mulling whether or not to prohibit the ICE actions that we've seen in that state.
That's the Orlando Sentinel.
The Sioux City Journal in South Dakota, some federal agents expected to leave Minnesota today.
That follows a phone call with the governor and the Minneapolis Mayor, Jacob Fry, with President Trump yesterday.
Also, Tom Holman, the Borders are on his way to Minnesota to talk to officials there.
And then you also have finally the Chicago Sun-Times trading fire on ICE.
This is from a primary debate, Democratic primary debate last night.
And here are the candidates.
Two sitting members of Congress are running for the seat of retiring Senator Dick Durbin.
And they're asked about legislative reforms they'd push for when it comes to ICE.
raja krishnamoorthi
He said he would go after the worst of the worst, and he ended up sending his agents, his rogue agents, to snatch people off the streets, stuff them into unmarked vehicles with no due process, no warrants, nothing.
greta brawner
Stomping on our Constitution.
It is not only wrong, but it is dangerous.
raja krishnamoorthi
And here we are, and I'm standing on the stage with my opponent, Congressman Krishnamurthy, who, as they started to attack the city of Chicago last summer, he went onto the House floor in Washington, D.C. and voted to thank ICE.
He's accepted funding from ICE contractors.
That is not the example of somebody who's going to stand up to Donald Trump and fight for all of our communities.
greta brawner
I want to abolish ICE because this agency cannot be reformed.
raja krishnamoorthi
Look, Lieutenant Governor, I'm an immigrant.
I'm the only immigrant on this stage.
And unlike many of you, I've actually done the hard work of trying to hold ICE accountable.
I'm the only candidate on this stage that's been evicted by the CPD when we performed inspections of ICE facilities.
I'm the only candidate on this stage that actually inspected an ICE facility itself.
And what I learned there was shocking, that they not only target people with convictions, they go after people who are merely charged and who are collaterally present.
That means innocent civilians.
Look, I believe we have to abolish Trump's ICE.
In light of what happened with Alex Pretty and with Renee Goode, what we're seeing now cannot continue.
So this is what, these are the legislative reforms that have to happen.
One, not a single dollar more for ICE or DHS.
That's the way I voted last week, and that's the way the Senate should vote.
Secondly, impeach Noam.
And I join Robin Kelly in that motion.
Third, we have to make sure they unmask ICE, wear identification, and finally have an inspector general within ICE to make sure they abide by the rules and regulations of the land.
robin kelly
We need to dismantle ICE.
We need to impeach Christy Noam and we need to build an agency that people can trust.
The Department of Homeland Security is too big, too unwieldy, and not accountable.
And we need to do all this in the guise of immigration reform.
It can't be one thing or another.
We have to look at Border Patrol.
We have to look at USCIS that oversees asylums.
We have to land the plane on the DREAMers and make them American citizens.
We have to find a pathway for the over 11 million undocumented that are contributing to this city of Chicago, this state of Illinois, and to the United States.
That's all a part of dismantling, building back, impeaching Christy Noam, which we're on our way to doing, and making an agency that everyone can trust again.
We have to build back trust in government.
greta brawner
That is from the Illinois Democratic primary last night.
Two members of Congress and Lieutenant Governor running for Senator Dick Durbin's seat.
Mr. Durbin is retiring after decades in the Senate.
You can watch it in its entirety if you go to c-span.org.
Calls for Impeachment Grow 00:10:53
greta brawner
You heard Congresswoman Robin Kelly talking about impeaching Christy Noam.
She has brought forward articles of impeachment on the Homeland Security Secretary.
NBC News with the headline: Democrats' calls for Christy Noam to resign or face impeachment grow louder.
Eight more Democrats have joined a resolution to impeach the Homeland Security Secretary after the latest fatal shooting by a federal agent.
The articles of impeachment against Secretary Noam say obstruction of Congress for instances in which members of Congress were denied entry into DHS facilities and for withholding congressionally appropriated disaster relief funds.
They also claim a violation of public trust for allegedly denying ICE detainees due process and violating First and Fourth Amendments and self-dealing over reports that Noam awarded $220 million in contracts to a firm run by her top spokesperson's husband.
Those are the articles of impeachment against the Homeland Security Secretary.
Jim in Wisconsin, Democratic caller, thanks for joining us this morning.
What do you think?
unidentified
Good morning.
How are you?
greta brawner
Good morning.
Has the immigration crackdown gone too far?
bob in new york
Yes, it has.
tim in california
All this is, is an army for Donald Trump to attack people because of voting rights.
That's why Pam Bombi, who's not even Attorney General, she's just a criminal, asked Tim Walz for the voter roll.
bob in new york
You don't do that.
tony in alexandria
States are independent.
They handle their own.
bob in new york
And there are federal people there because I vote in Butler all the time.
tony in alexandria
And there's Republican and there's a Democrat.
And they make sure everything is done right.
I mean, these are all lies.
And as far as the guy from Lake Geneva, John, he's a MAGA.
You should have hung up on him right away.
tim in california
He don't know the laws and he's probably lying about his family's in law enforcement.
unidentified
All right.
tony in alexandria
I should hear him right away.
He didn't give any facts or anything.
tim in california
He just said something off the top of his head.
greta brawner
Okay, Jim.
Jim in Wisconsin, Democratic caller.
On the demand for voter rolls, New York Times reports what is behind the Trump administration's call for Minnesota voter rolls.
Nearly every state has a public version of its voter roll that includes basic information like first and last names.
Some of these roles include addresses.
But the complete unredacted voter file includes personal identifying information like driver's license numbers and social security numbers.
This list is kept private and is maintained by top election officials in each state.
Traditionally, no one can obtain it through public records requests, not even the Justice Department.
So why does the Justice Department want these files?
New York Times says Ms. Bondi has said that the Trump administration is trying to keep elections secure.
But President Trump and his allies, who tried to overturn the 2020 election and continue to deny its legitimacy, have long pushed unsubstantiated claims about undocumented immigrants voting illegally.
And last year, the Justice Department began to try to build the largest set of national voter roll data it has ever collected, raising concerns that the data could be used to cast doubt on future election results.
From the New York Times reporting, why is the Trump administration demanding Minnesota voter rolls?
James in Waterport, New York, Republican.
Good morning to you, James.
mark in california [2]
Good morning.
Two books, The Invisible Coup by Peter Schweitzer, number one, New York Times bestseller.
How America elites and foreign powers use immigration as a weapon, just released.
Second book, Why is Mass Immigration Really Happening?
Governments in Western countries are intending to turn white people into an extinct species by Kerimer, 2025 book.
unidentified
Thank you.
greta brawner
Charles, North Carolina, Independent.
Hi, Charles.
unidentified
Good morning.
mark in california [2]
Thanks for taking my call.
I don't understand a lot of what's going on because when I researched myself, I found out that Minnesota law states that you cannot protest in the street.
Now, you can stand on the corner.
unidentified
You can have your signs.
bob in new york
You can do all the yelling and all you want to.
But once you impede traffic and get in the street, then you've broken the law.
mark in california [2]
So Minneapolis police should have gone down and started either arresting people and removing them from the street because the public safety man came out the very first day with Governor Walsh and said, Minnesota law says you cannot protest in the street.
bob in new york
So I wonder why all these people got to protest in the street when other citizens couldn't do it.
greta brawner
Okay, Charles, his thoughts.
In Independent North Carolina, Lincoln's in Maryland.
Democratic caller, we'll hear from you next.
Lincoln, go ahead.
Lincoln in Maryland.
All right, moving on to Doug in Virginia, Republican.
Morning, Doug.
unidentified
Good morning.
bob in new york
I'm just trying to figure out where everyone comes up with these people are not breaking the law being in this country.
If you have a visa and it runs out and you do not leave, you have broken federal law.
We do not need a city to tell the federal government about a federal government law.
I don't see anyone complaining when if it's a Republican city and it's happening, oh no, it's fine.
unidentified
Let it happen.
bob in new york
Some of love, burn down buildings.
You have no right to do that in this country.
mark in california [2]
I served in the military for this country.
If you want to be here, do the paperwork.
bob in new york
If you have a visa, you can put in and take classes and become an American citizen.
They don't want to do it.
Why should we pay for their kids to go to school out of our tax dollars when most of them aren't even paying taxes to begin with?
They work under the table.
unidentified
They know it.
They've seen it.
bob in new york
Why can't we just have the police go in with ICE?
I'm not a fan of ICE, but the problem is we have too many people that think they can take over the city and tell the police and the government what to do.
mark in california [2]
Go back to the old days when I grew up.
You came out and did something like that.
They brought the fire trucks out and they cleaned the streets real quick.
greta brawner
All right.
Doug, a Republican in Virginia, with his thoughts.
The Democrats in the Senate now this week turned their attention to the funding measure for the Homeland Security Department after it was approved by the House.
However, following the fatal shooting of Alex Predi, Senate Democrats are now united in opposing the Homeland Security funding bill.
Listen to Appropriations Committee Chair, Republican Susan Collins, on the Senate floor yesterday acknowledging the fatal shooting but asking her Democratic colleagues to support the full funding package, including the Homeland Security funding.
susan collins
Let me say, Madam President, that the tragic death of Alex Petri has refocused attention on the Homeland Security bill, and I recognize that and share the concerns.
I do want to point out to my colleagues that there are many safeguards that have been put in this bill that I would encourage them to review, and that the vast majority of the funding in this bill, more than 80%, is for non-immigration and non-border security functions.
It includes, for example, funding for FEMA.
We've just gone through a horrific storm that has caused a lot of damage, and FEMA is very important.
It includes funding for TSA.
Those of us who travel back and forth through our home states every weekend are well aware of the work of TSA in keeping us safe.
It includes funding for cybersecurity and physical infrastructure protection.
And important to the states of the presiding officer in the state of Maine, it includes funding for the U.S. Coast Guard.
So, Madam President, I know that there will be many more speeches and discussions of all of the bills that are included in this package,
but let me just say that I hope we can come together in a constructive way to get this done and to ensure that we do not lurch into a dangerous and detrimental government shutdown.
greta brawner
The Appropriations Committee Chair Susan Collins, Republican of Maine, on the floor of the Senate yesterday, encouraging, urging her fellow senators to vote for a spending package and avoid a government shutdown this Saturday at 12:01 a.m.
Democrats in the Senate appear united after that fatal shooting of Alex Predi in Minnesota in opposition to the Homeland Security bill.
This morning, we're asking all of you: has the Trump administration's immigration crackdown gone too far?
John in Ava Maria, Florida, an independent, we'll hear from you, John.
unidentified
Hi.
Power Grab and Money Grab 00:14:37
mark in california [2]
It's a power grab and it's a money grab.
I think the power grab is the fact that all of these illegals are going to vote for Democrats.
That's how you got Spamberger in Virginia.
That's how you got Cheryl in New Jersey.
tony in alexandria
That's how you got Mamdani in New York.
That's the power grab.
The money grab is you get federal funding for NGOs, 501c3s, they go to the daycares, and it gets filtered back to politicians.
Jacob Fride's wife is a lobbyist.
Her firm facilitates the money going to the Somali daycares.
So if we're talking about billions of dollars, even if she gets a 3% cut, and you know Ellison is in on it, so is Waltz.
mark in california [2]
This is millions of dollars.
tony in alexandria
So it's a money grab and it's a power grab.
It's a power grab with votes.
It's a money grab because this money's getting filtered back.
mark in california [2]
I mean, this is common sense.
tony in alexandria
And once the rest of America wakes up to this, and they will, they will, everyone's going to get behind Trump on what he's doing because what he's doing is correct.
mark in california [2]
It's correct.
greta brawner
Okay.
John in Florida with his thoughts.
Ben is in Minnesota and independent.
Ben, where do you live in Minnesota?
brad sherman
Southern Minnesota, but I grew up 36 of my 54 years in South Minneapolis.
greta brawner
Okay.
brad sherman
So this has directly affected my former stomping grounds.
My friends and family that still live up there are deeply affected by what's been going on.
greta brawner
And what are they telling me?
brad sherman
They're scared.
And the majority of them are Caucasian Americans, but even themselves, they're afraid to go out.
It is an overreach in every way, shape, or form.
There's no point in sending the number of federal officials into a Democratic city solely to go after immigration enforcement.
If somebody would please post the numbers for the states that show the largest amount of undocumented immigrants, let's go off of that.
We know that red states have the most and that the Trump administration isn't going after them there because they're all in each other's pockets, regardless of a Democratic issue, a Republican issue.
I consider myself an independent, but yes, I will sound more like a liberal at this point in time because the overreach is astronomical.
greta brawner
Ben, did you before the president was elected?
Did you agree with him at any point on the need for border security and immigration actions inside the United States?
unidentified
I agreed with tightening up the borders.
brad sherman
We do need to focus more on the people that are here.
And I do agree that there needs to be a legal path into coming into the United States.
unidentified
Don't just let the floodgates open.
brad sherman
But the process in going through and ripping apart blue states and blue cities to weed out, if you will, illegal immigrants, this manner is just not.
unidentified
No.
Paramilitary forces is not cool.
brad sherman
This is not okay in any way, shape, or form.
greta brawner
All right.
So a judge in Minnesota yesterday asked similar questioning.
Take a look at the New York Times.
Judge Way's arguments on legality of ICE surge.
Minnesota, along with the cities of Minneapolis and St. Paul, filed a lawsuit two weeks ago claiming that the Trump administration's campaign called Operation Metro Surge violates state sovereignty under the 10th Amendment and should be blocked.
The surge has brought some 3,000 federal agents to Minnesota, resulting in thousands of arrests, three shootings, and tense protests.
Judge Menendez, who was nominated to the bench by former President Joseph Biden, did not rule from the bench on Monday and did not provide a timeline for issuing a written decision.
She indicated that she would move quickly.
She did, though, push back on Minnesota officials.
need for immediate action.
She had pointed questions about the state government's request that she issue a sweeping order to block the surge.
And she also asked where the line should be and wondered whether or not there were possible ulterior motives.
So this from a hearing in Minnesota yesterday with Judge Kate Menendez, who will rule on whether or not to block this ICE surge.
Has the Trump administration's immigration crackdown gone too far?
That is our question this morning.
Those are the lines for dialing in.
Take a look at the national papers this morning in the headlines.
President Trump signals ICE pullout from Minnesota chaos.
That's the Washington Times this morning.
USA Today, police improved community relations after George Floyd.
Is ICE a setback?
You also have from the Wall Street Journal, the 48 hours that convinced President Trump to change course in Minnesota.
And then you have the Washington Post.
Trump softens tone on Minneapolis violence amid calls for accountability.
And finally, the New York Times.
Trump under pressure retreats from smears in Minneapolis killing.
The change in rhetoric and actions coming from the White House and yesterday at the White House briefing, Caroline Levitt was asked if the president agrees with the rhetoric from the Homeland Security Secretary and others in the administration and how they framed the shooting of Alex Predi.
Take a listen.
To follow on Gabe's question, Secretary Noam said Alex Predty committed an act of domestic terrorism.
Stephen Miller labeled Predi a domestic terrorist.
Does the president agree with them?
karoline leavitt
Look, as I've said, I have not heard the president characterize Mr. Predty in that way.
However, I have heard the president say he wants to let the facts and the investigation lead itself.
greta brawner
Was he alarmed to hear his top officials referring to him in that way, rushing to that judgment?
unidentified
Thanks, Caroline.
greta brawner
The White House press secretary yesterday was also asked about rhetoric coming out of the White House in the immediate aftermath of the fatal shooting.
Here's what she had to say.
tony in alexandria
Regarding Minnesota, on Saturday, the Department of Homeland Security posted that Predty looks like he wanted to do maximum damage to massacre law enforcement.
Stephen Miller on Saturday posted that or called Predi a would-be assassin.
brad sherman
Why did administration officials jump to conclusions before an investigation had even been conducted?
karoline leavitt
Well, look, this has obviously been a very fluid and fast-moving situation throughout the weekend.
As for President Trump, whom I speak for, he has said that he wants to let the investigation continue and let the facts lead in this case.
tony in alexandria
With regards to the deployment of Tom Holman to Minneapolis, should the deployment of Mr. Holman to Minneapolis be seen as a sign that the president is dissatisfied with how the officials on the ground had handled the incident?
karoline leavitt
No, Mr. Holman is doing an exceptional job and he has been working with Secretary Noam and President Trump over the course of the last year.
Secretary Noam still has the utmost confidence and trust of the President of the United States and she's continuing to oversee the entire Department of Homeland Security and all of the immigration enforcement that's taking place across the whole entire country.
Of course, Secretary Noam is also in charge of FEMA, and we are in the wake of a brutal winter storm where hundreds of thousands of Americans have been impacted by that.
So Borders R. Homan is in a unique position to drop everything and go to Minnesota to continue having these productive conversations with state and local officials.
And I know that he's catching a plane in just a few hours to do just that at the request of the president.
greta brawner
The White House Press Secretary at yesterday's briefing, the Washington Post editorial board has a to-do list for Tom Homan when he arrives in Minneapolis.
And they say that it starts with refocusing deportation operations on criminal targets instead of five-year-olds with pending cases in immigration court.
Sanctuary jurisdictions like Minneapolis' Hennepin County can help keep ICE out of their communities by directly handing over criminals in their custody to immigration enforcement officers.
The next step is to rebuild trust with the public.
You do that with transparency.
DHS is reviewing body camera footage from agents who were on the scene when Predty was fatally shot.
To help restore credibility, authorities would be wise to release a complete version of the video.
Congressional Republicans are signaling that they plan to conduct more rigorous oversight.
Senate Judiciary Committee Chair Chuck Gressley of Iowa announced Monday that Noam has agreed to testify on March 3rd.
Other GLP chairmen are demanding various DHS leaders appear before their own committees before that.
The Washington Post this morning with Tom Homan's to-do list.
Punch Bowl News reporting about Tom Homan being sent to Minnesota.
And Punch Bowl News says that federal agents will begin departing Minnesota today after Trump's sudden dramatic gear shift on immigration.
And among them will be the Border Patrol Chief Greg Bovino, whose days strutting Blue City streets in his faux military coat seem to be over.
His boss, DHS Secretary Christy Noam, has also been sidelined.
And a new sheriff, Border Star Tom Homan, is headed to Minneapolis for clear-the-air meetings with local Democratic leaders.
That's happening today.
Yesterday at the White House, according to the New York Times, Christine Noam called for a meeting with President Trump, and she got one, along with her top aide, Corey Lewandowski.
They met with the president for over two hours.
Let's go to Greg, who's in Georgia, Republican.
Greg, good morning.
sean duffy
Good morning.
unidentified
Good morning.
tony in alexandria
I work in law enforcement, and this process that we're talking about is happening right now as we speak, all over the country, and it's done in an organized fashion.
Every week where I work, ICE picks up orderly about three times a week.
During the Biden administration, maybe once every four months did they pick up illegal immigrants that we stop, whether they didn't have a driver's license, whether they were speeding, whether they were drunk driving.
And it works systematically and methodically like it should.
Only in one state and one city that they are putting up roadblocks, and they are creating this havoc in Minnesota.
They are doing it on purpose.
Where I work, it works seamlessly.
There's no whistles, there's no protest, and it works like it should.
You don't have this.
And I agree with the earlier caller.
During the Biden administration, I never saw a Chiron across your screen that said, did the Biden administration go too far in their border invasion?
Which is what it was.
People were just allowed to just stream over.
bob in new york
And now we're having to deal with that and clean this mess up.
tony in alexandria
So, would you people want to get to leave the house in a little while?
When I leave the house, I'm going to have an ID on me.
bob in new york
Every day I leave the house, I have an ID.
tony in alexandria
Everybody who legally drives a car or carries a gun is supposed to have an ID on them.
The guy that got shot the other day did not have ID, did not have his permit with him, and had 30 extra rounds on him.
I mean, this whole thing is being set up to turn your eyes away from the fraud and the corruption and all the money that's being bled out of Minneapolis.
greta brawner
And, Greg, on that point, I'll just say to you and others that there have been a few hearings on Capitol Hill about the fraud, the alleged fraud in Minnesota, and you can find those hearings if you go to our website, c-span.org.
Felix in Fayetteville, North Carolina, Democratic caller.
Let's hear from you.
rodney in arizona
C-SPAN America, good morning.
bob in new york
How are y'all on this beautiful day?
greta brawner
Morning, Felix.
bob in new york
All right.
rodney in arizona
I want you to, while I'm talking, I'd like to look up something if you possibly could.
This could be a rooted problem of how they're acting.
You have a gentleman, the president of the Heritage Foundation named Eric Roberts, I believe this name, somewhere circa July 2024, he was on the Steve Bannon show, indicated that there's a second revolution coming, and it would be bloodless as long as the Democrat, or excuse me, as long as the left will allow it.
I want to know if that's part of the problem there.
Second of all, the President Trump, to me, he's just like what Bill Clinton was whenever the Ken Starr said he was just a president is just an ordinary person temporarily occupying a seat of power at the pleasure of we the people.
Exploring Americans in Space 00:04:39
rodney in arizona
Another issue is that just because I disagree with you, don't mean I'm a communist.
greta brawner
All right, Felix, we will have to leave it there.
We are going to take a break.
Later on in the Washington Journal, Bradford Fitch, former CEO of the Congressional Management Foundation and author of the quote, Citizens Handbook for Influencing Elected Officials, joins us and we'll talk about practical and effective strategies to get through to your elected officials.
But first, after the break, affordability is one of the main themes for this year's midterm elections.
We'll take a closer look at the Trump administration's records so far on that front with Natalie Baker of the Center for American Progress and Brittany Madney from the Economic Policy Innovation Center.
That conversation coming up on the Washington Journal.
mark in california [2]
Houston, F2, 1-1-60 a second.
For shadow photography on the sequence camera.
unidentified
Travel through the history of America's space program on American History TV all day on C-SPAN 2.
Featuring classic NASA films and historical newsreels from past space missions.
Watch Saturday, starting at 8 a.m. Eastern, as American History TV sits down with Smithsonian National Era and Space Museum Apollo curator Tiesel Muir Harmony to explore Americans in space from the creation of NASA in 1958 through the early Gemini flights to Neil Armstrong's historic first steps on the moon in July 1969.
She also looks ahead to the upcoming Artemis missions with the goal of returning astronauts to the lunar surface.
Plus, relive the race to the moon, Skylab, and the Space Shuttle program.
And hear first-hand accounts from legendary NASA flight directors Gene Krantz and Gerald Griffin.
tony in alexandria
The crew of Apollo 8 has a message that we would like to send to you.
unidentified
Watch the history of the American space program all day Saturday, starting at 8 a.m. Eastern on American History TV on C-SPAN 2.
donald j trump
I saw you interviewed the other night.
I watched it about 2 o'clock in the morning.
There was a little thing called C-SPAN, which I don't know how many people were watching.
Don't worry, you were in prime time too, but they happened to have a little rerun.
patty murray
Do you really think that we don't remember what just happened last week?
Thank goodness for C-SPAN, and we all should review the tape.
unidentified
Everyone wonders when they're watching C-SPAN what the conversations are on the floor.
al green
I'm about to read to you something that was published by C-SPAN.
sean duffy
There's a lot of things that Congress fights about, that they disagree on.
We can all watch that on C-SPAN.
ben ray lujan
Millions of people across the country tuned into C-SPAN.
unidentified
Speaking!
bob in new york
That was a major C-SPAN moment.
karoline leavitt
If you watch on C-SPAN, you're going to see me physically across the aisle every day, just trying to build relationships and try to understand their perspective and find common ground.
unidentified
And welcome for to everybody watching at home.
patty murray
We know C-SPAN covers this live as well.
unidentified
We appreciate that.
brad sherman
And one can only hope that he's able to watch C-SPAN on a black and white television set in his prison cell.
michael mccaul
This is being carried live by C-SPAN.
It's being watched not only in this country, it's being watched around the world right now.
donald j trump
Mike said before, I happened to listen to him, he was on C-SPAN 1.
That's a big upgrade, right?
unidentified
America marks 250 years, and C-SPAN is there to commemorate every moment.
From the signing of the Declaration of Independence to the voices shaping our nation's future, we bring you unprecedented all-platform coverage, exploring the stories, sights, and spirit that make up America.
Join us for remarkable coast-to-coast coverage, celebrating our nation's journey like no other network can.
America 250, over a year of historic moments.
C-SPAN, official media partner of America 250.
Washington Journal continues.
Costs Concerning Citizens 00:15:26
greta brawner
Turning our attention to the economy and affordability this morning for the next hour, we're joined by Natalie Baker, who is the Economic Analysis Director at the Center for American Progress, and Brittany Madney, who's the Executive Vice President at the Economic Policy Innovation Center.
Thank you both for being here.
President Trump today traveling to Iowa, he'll be in Cleve, Iowa, to talk about the U.S. economy and energy.
And we will have live coverage of that today at 4 p.m. Eastern Time right here on C-SPAN, C-SPAN Now, our free video mobile app, and C-SPAN.org online on demand.
Let's begin with the president's remarks in Iowa.
Natalie Baker, what do you think the president needs to address from your perspective?
natalie baker
Absolutely.
So I think the fundamental issue is that Americans right now are paying more for less.
So it's no surprise.
Cost of living is going to be front of mind for folks in Iowa, and I imagine that that's going to be a big part of the conversation today.
You know, if we think about the Iowa economy, there's been some indicators that it's one of the states considered possibly in recession.
So that's a Moody's indicator, and that should be on the conversation on the table as well.
greta brawner
Why is it that Iowa's economy could be in a recession?
Is it because of farming?
What makes up Iowa's economy?
natalie baker
So obviously farming, big part of the Iowa economy.
But as one of several states that are currently considered to be in recession or possibly in recession, and again, these regional impacts are the sorts of things that aren't captured in the headline overall GDP growth stats.
So we're seeing differentiated impacts across the economy in different states, and Iowa is just one of those.
greta brawner
Brittany Manny, do you agree that the president needs to address these cost of living issues?
And can you be more specific?
Where does he need to drill down?
brittany madni
Absolutely, the president needs to address cost of living issues.
And I think that's exactly why he's going to Iowa.
Iowa is seen as the heart of the nation in many ways.
It's certainly a farming economy, as Natalie indicated, but it's more than just that.
There's also a manufacturing hub in Iowa.
If you look out to the side, the eastern side near Dubuque and along the river there.
But you have a lot of different parts of Iowa that are good indicators for the rest of the economy.
Of course, you have farming that's very dependent on trade as well as weather.
You have housing crises across some of the areas that are more rural.
unidentified
You have manufacturing.
brittany madni
You have a lot of the very classic indicators of affordability.
The president is certainly looking at health care affordability, housing affordability, groceries, gas, and of course, when you get to gas, you've got to talk about biofuels in Iowa.
greta brawner
You just mentioned the two that are on a headline on the front page of the Wall Street Journal.
Health insurance costs surge and can rival mortgage expenses.
Tell our viewers what you're seeing on health care costs.
brittany madni
Yeah, I saw that article and I thought to myself, well, this is no surprise to the individuals who are purchasing their health care.
Sure, it might be headline news out in Washington, D.C., but I think to the president's visit to Iowa, you really understand why this is top of mind, because out there, Iowans are thinking, yeah, of course this is a problem.
unidentified
I know this.
brittany madni
I don't need to be told this by the journal.
A huge part of the problem with health care affordability is the system itself.
unidentified
So we've talked about this before.
brittany madni
The subsidies that are inherent in the ACA and the Affordable Care Act are directly sent to insurers.
This is a problem for the president.
He's mentioned it multiple times and it's a hallmark of his new agenda that he's put out the parameters for his Great American Health Plan.
Joe, as you start thinking through what do the people really want to hear him talk about in Iowa, they want to hear him talking about kitchen table issues and I think that's why he chose to go to Iowa of all places.
greta brawner
Natalie Baker, on health care costs, you've heard the president talk about, let's get this money directly to the consumers and bypass the insurance companies.
Is that something that the Center for American Progress can get behind?
natalie baker
Look, I think at the moment we haven't really seen that in terms of health policy.
So that would be the first point I would make there.
The second point is that when we're thinking about policies of the last year from this administration, we've seen massive cuts to Medicaid.
We've seen the premium tax credits, which are subsidies to help folks with their health insurance premium costs.
We've seen those expire.
So we're already seeing people roll off marketplace coverage because it's getting too expensive, thousands of dollars of increase in premiums, and that number of folks who are no longer able to afford that marketplace coverage is just going to go up.
So in terms of what policies we're actually seeing for healthcare coverage, my concern is that there has not been enough movement to address any of these issues.
greta brawner
Where else specifically do you see the cost of living becoming so high that Americans are hurting and they can't pay for it?
natalie baker
Sure.
So I think one thing that Brittany touched on is housing costs.
That is absolutely an issue when we think about what's happened with rents over the last five years, with mortgage payments, people looking to buy their first home.
These are serious issues that Americans all across the country are facing and we've seen little by way of support for those folks.
greta brawner
What have you heard from President Trump on housing?
natalie baker
So we've seen several announcements of policies.
We're yet to see really tangible action in terms of legislation or other actual actions by the federal government to support on housing costs.
Those announcements, I will say, the key issue with those announcements is they've been focused on demand side policies and they're doing nothing to address the fundamental issue that is driving America's housing crisis, which is America is not building enough homes.
So as soon as we see movement on the supply side, which we haven't yet, you know, right now, all that's going to do is push up prices in the short term.
greta brawner
This past week on Ceasefire, we sat down with Mike Flood, a Republican from Nebraska, Emmanuel Cleaver, a Democrat from Missouri.
The two of them have come together on housing legislation that would address cost and supply.
They say their leadership is willing to bring it to the floor.
And both of them believe it could get bipartisan support.
There's similar legislation in the Senate and you hear the President talking about housing.
Brittany Mandy, are you aware of this legislation?
And what do you think is the best solution?
Or what have you heard from the president that you can get behind on housing?
brittany madni
So I think the primary work that the president and this administration have been doing on housing is really the deregulatory side.
They've blown their 10-to-1 commitment out of the water in terms of removing onerous regulations and this is going to help the building issue that Natalie touched on earlier.
I mean at this point we're looking at a scenario where a regulatory budget is certainly within the framework of possibility and as that continues to be rolled out by the different agencies as they're promulgating the new rules or removal of rules, then you'll see builders be able to move more expeditiously through the process and sidestepping some of these concerns like long waits for permitting, unnecessary,
duplicative studies on environmental impacts, etc.
I haven't seen that bill that you mentioned particularly, but I certainly think it's an issue that's top of mind for a lot of members of the House.
natalie baker
I wouldn't be surprised if we see it on the floor.
greta brawner
We want to invite our viewers to join us in this conversation on affordability.
Where do you see life becoming unaffordable?
According to the New York Times this morning, many Americans see middle-class lifestyles drifting out of reach.
And take a look at these numbers.
Voters' feelings about the affordability of the following items.
58% said education unaffordable, while 54% said housing unaffordable.
And on health care, 47% answered that it was unaffordable.
Having a family, 44%.
On groceries, the number was at 28%.
Same with food around that.
Utilities, around 23%, and transportation around 22%.
So we turn to all of you this morning to get your thoughts on this.
Please call in.
Let us know what you think about affordability and what it's like where you live.
Democrats 202-748-8000.
Republicans 202-748-8001.
And Independents, 202-748-8002.
Natalie Baker, any of these numbers surprise you from this New York Times poll?
natalie baker
Yeah, look, that's one poll and many others will tell you the same thing.
Cost of living, the number one issue that folks are concerned about right now.
It's the number one issue in the minds of Americans.
Whether it's health care costs, housing costs, food costs, we've seen significant pressures.
And so it's no wonder that folks feel like they're running just to sort of stay in the same place.
So cost of living front of mind.
And again, in terms of what we've seen from current economic policies in 2025, very little by way of support for households.
greta brawner
Brittany Mendy, do you agree with what you heard from Natalie?
And I'm also a little surprised that education came in first at 58%.
brittany madni
I'm a little surprised to hear that education came in first at 58% as well, simply because I don't think that there are quite as many differences on that side.
Is childcare and similar options listed as well, or is that, I wonder, rolled into education?
greta brawner
I think it's having a family, right?
44% saying having a family is unaffordable.
All those costs that go into having a family.
brittany madni
Yeah, no, I was thinking about this this morning as I was driving in here and trying to figure out child care because our daycare is closed from the snow out here.
unidentified
Childcare is incredibly expensive.
brittany madni
I think that's rolling into this.
Education is going up as well.
But the bigger picture here is that life in general is unaffordable.
What we've found at EPIC is that life is unaffordable because the economy is in a difficult position.
The economy is in a difficult position, largely to inflation, that is driven by overspending by the government.
And when we look at overspending by the government, it is incredible just how serious the impacts can be.
In Q1 of FY fiscal year 2026, which is what we've just gone through, we're just at the end of quarter one.
Our interest payments on the debt are greater than the interest payments on the entire year of fiscal year 2017.
unidentified
In just one quarter.
brittany madni
Our deficit in the first quarter is larger than the deficit for an entire year just a decade ago.
It's now the second largest category, our interest payments.
So just paying our credit card bills is now the second largest category of the federal budget.
The only thing that we pay more on is Social Security.
That means we're paying more on interest than we are for all of national defense, than we are for all of Medicare.
This is telling you that we don't have a revenues problem.
We have a spending problem.
greta brawner
Are Republicans who are in control of the House and Senate doing enough to bring down spending?
brittany madni
I would argue that we could always be doing more.
There's absolutely more we could be doing right now.
The Senate is considering the minibus, which is the final appropriations bills for the new fiscal year, which of course we're already a quarter into.
The version that is coming out of conference is about $55 billion more than the version that was passed from the House.
I think that it would be time for austerity measures, not an increase in spending, even if that is just keeping up with inflation.
We're now at a point where that's unsustainable.
So it's time to get rid of the things that are nice to have and focus on the need to have.
greta brawner
Natalie Baker, before we get to calls, are we seeing an affordability issue because of overspending by the government?
natalie baker
So the first thing I'll say there is that the affordability issues that folks are facing have been made worse over the course of the last year because of tariffs.
This is the signature economic policy of 2025 and they're driving up the cost of living for households, whether it's groceries or home building costs.
Tariffs are having a significant impact on the prices that people are facing every day.
Now, this is not to say there aren't things to look at on the spending side, on the tax side.
There's always opportunities there.
But what we have seen over the last year is significant debt finance tax cuts that disproportionately benefit the top 1%, all to cuts to critical services like Medicaid and SNAP, which are things that help people with the cost of living.
So, you know, when you take those together, the one big beautiful bill and tariffs, we have not seen from this administration policies that address the issues that people are worried about.
greta brawner
All right, well, we've set the table for our viewers.
Let's hear what they have to say.
Steve in Tampa, Florida, Republican.
Go ahead.
eugene vindman
Good morning.
tony in alexandria
I have an idea regarding the portable mortgage proposal.
One of the problems is the people under 40 years old have not been able to afford to buy homes.
If someone is qualified, they should be able to buy a home from someone who has a low interest mortgage, 3.5%, and pay that mortgage rate.
That person should be able to then buy the next home, the higher-priced home, and keep their 3.5% mortgage.
And as it goes up the ladder, everybody benefits.
alex padilla
Plus, the mortgage companies benefit because you have more people now owning homes.
greta brawner
Yeah, Steve, hang on the line because what dictates your mortgage rate, the interest rate?
Because many people think, well, the Fed lowered interest rates.
So now the mortgage interest rate should go down.
natalie baker
Sure.
So, Steve, it's a great question.
And I think you're right about worrying about people getting into the housing market.
It is tough to buy a home and especially that first home.
On interest rates, we have seen the Fed really struggle to manage risks in the economy, both on the inflation side and on the labor market side, and that makes it really tough when it comes to interest rates.
So, you know, we don't know where things will go in 2026.
As expectations are unclear, really, in terms of where the Fed will land in upcoming Fed meetings.
But ultimately, there are a lot of factors that feed into what determines that mortgage.
I think you've got an interesting idea.
It's similar to things that have been talked about, you know, on both sides of the aisle.
But I would just add that at the end of the day, what we really need in the long term is increasing supply of housing.
So, you know, I think there's more that governments can be doing to support mortgage holders and especially those coming in trying to buy their first home.
Affordability Challenges 00:14:49
natalie baker
But it's also that we need more housing built as well.
greta brawner
On the Fed, the Federal Reserve Chair Jerome Powell will hold his quarterly news conference after the board meets this Wednesday at 2:30 p.m. Eastern Time.
This will be the first public appearance by Jerome Powell with reporters since the Justice Department started their investigation into him.
So 2:30 p.m. Eastern Time, and look for the C-SPAN network's coverage of the Federal Reserve Chair.
There's also speculation this week that the President will announce his replacement for Jerome Powell when his term expires in May.
That announcement could come this week from the White House.
Brittany Madney, the President has talked about a 50-year mortgage.
What does EPIC think about that idea?
brittany madni
Well, I think one of the challenges with a 50-year mortgage is that it's potentially locking people in now when rates are pretty high and things are unsustainable in a lot of different parts of the economy.
So there are challenges with that.
Now, I understand why the administration might be interested in it because it does present the opportunity for folks to enter into An early home, a first home.
But even going back to one of the challenges that Steve mentioned with rates changing over time, if we look at something like portability, then you start getting into questions of: okay, well, where are the portability lines?
Is this regionally based?
unidentified
Is this state-based?
brittany madni
What are the impacts of different emergency standards?
For example, are we in a flood zone?
Are we in some other disaster area?
So, portability on mortgages as well as 50-year mortgages are something that we really need to be looking at carefully and making a decision about: are there regional impacts here?
Is it something that can be done with a broad stroke on the federal level, or do we need to be taking a little bit more of a federalist look?
greta brawner
All right, we'll go to Mike in Wisconsin Democratic caller.
Mike, is there an affordability issue in this country?
bob in new york
Yes, I live north of Madison, Wisconsin, 50 miles.
I'm 69 and retired.
The average price of a two-bedroom apartment is $1,500 a month in a rural area.
rodney in arizona
My mom died five years ago.
bob in new york
The most we could get for her house was 85 grand.
Her house today, five years later, is worth $185,000.
rodney in arizona
Affordability is ridiculous.
New cars are $45,000.
bob in new york
A new truck is $55,000.
A pound of ground beef is $14 in Wisconsin, retail.
rodney in arizona
Trump's policies, the billionaires are buying up all the real estate.
Affordability is a big issue.
I've seen it my whole life.
greta brawner
Well, Mike, let me jump in because the president from Davos said that he wanted to sign an executive order that would prohibit corporations from buying single-family homes.
Were you relieved to hear that?
rodney in arizona
There are 1,135 billionaires in the United States today.
In 1980, there were five when Reagan was president.
There's a big, big income gap between the rich and the poor.
People, the average per capita income in Wisconsin and Minnesota for a working adult is $45,000.
bob in new york
How do you live when apartments are going for two grand a month for a two-bedroom?
Your car payment is $800 or $900 a month.
rodney in arizona
You can't afford food.
bob in new york
You can't afford electricity.
You can't afford to even buy toilet paper.
Because Trump's policies suck.
greta brawner
And Mike, how much is your electric bill or your gas bill?
bob in new york
I rent.
I pay $80 a month.
greta brawner
And you've seen that go up over the years?
rodney in arizona
Everything has gone up.
unidentified
Yeah.
greta brawner
Okay.
Mike in Wisconsin, I'll leave it at that.
So, Brittany, many, you heard from Mike about the different costs that he's seeing for him to live.
unidentified
Mike's absolutely right.
brittany madni
This might be the story in northern Wisconsin, but it's also the story across the country.
I'll go back to the president going to Iowa this week.
I think that's why he's going to the heartland and not staying on the East Coast or in this DC bubble where it's just a bunch of math on a piece of paper.
No, going out into the community is really how we're going to make sure that we are understanding the affordability crisis.
Mike mentioned his mom passing, first of all, Mike condolences and not being able to get a reasonable amount for the house that they had to sell off.
I think that what we're seeing here is that we don't have enough supply in the housing market.
That's really a problem here.
Now, what that looks like in northern Wisconsin may be related to the rural communities.
I think it may be related to some of the building expenses that are stamped on top of regulations and the federal and local levels.
Again, I think rolling back some of those regulatory burdens is going to help that marketplace.
In terms of the trade and tariffs challenge, I do think that it's important for us to look at the long-term effects of this.
Are tariffs being used as a negotiating tool?
unidentified
Absolutely.
brittany madni
And so, part of the question here is: what has the president been able to extract from our trading partners as a result of some of the tariff threats?
unidentified
And is that helpful?
brittany madni
If that's going to be helpful in the long run or even the medium term, then it's something that's worth considering in that cost-benefit analysis.
greta brawner
Natalie Baker, respond to that then.
Has the tariff, the trade negotiations, been helpful?
natalie baker
Sure.
So, I just want to start with the point first that really tariffs are a tax on American households, especially in the way that we've seen them implemented.
And that's to the tune of $1,700 a year that folks are paying because of these tariffs.
So, that was the first point I would make there.
But the second point is that we saw those tariffs in 2025 push economic uncertainty to unprecedented levels.
That is sending shockwaves through the global economy over the course of 2025.
And even here in 2026, we've seen things have not really changed much at all.
So, you know, this is creating additional financial instability.
It makes it difficult for businesses and firms to invest, as well as those household impacts at the checkout and when you're paying your rent and all those other issues that we see.
So, in terms of the cost-benefit analysis of what we see from the tariffs, we've gotten very little as a country from these tariffs, and we're paying more every day for it.
greta brawner
Yet, the market is up, and people's 401ks and their retirement funds are up over the past year.
natalie baker
Sure.
But these things can happen, you know, maybe not overnight.
We see spikes and dips, sure, but over the long run.
And what we're seeing is investors overseas, whether it's the stock market, the bond market, or even the U.S. dollar, folks around the world are seeing the U.S. as less of a safe haven like they used to.
And that makes this economy more risky.
It means that the sort of position that the U.S. has held in the global economy, its stability is under threat.
greta brawner
We want all of you to join us in this conversation this morning, hear from you about affordability.
Where do you feel that life is out of reach?
That's our conversation here this morning.
And a reminder: President Trump is traveling to Iowa today, 4 p.m. Eastern Time.
He'll talk about the economy and energy.
Watch it right here on C-SPAN, online, on demand at c-span.org, or our free video mobile app, C-SPAN Now.
Let's listen to what the President had to say last week in Davos, Switzerland, when he was at the World Economic Forum.
Here's what he said about initiatives coming out of the administration on housing and credit cards.
donald j trump
But homes are built for people, not for corporations, and America will not become a nation of renters.
We're not going to do that.
That's why I have signed an executive order banning large institutional investors from buying single-family homes.
It's just not fair to the public.
They're not able to buy a house.
And I'm calling on Congress to pass that ban into permanent law, and I think they will.
One of the biggest barriers to saving for a down payment has been surging credit card debt.
The profit margin for credit card companies now exceeds 50%, one of the biggest.
And they charge America's interest rates of 28%, 30%, 31%, 32%.
Whatever happened to usury.
So to help our citizens recover from the Biden disaster, all caused by this horrible, just horrible president, I'm asking Congress to cap credit card interest rates at 10% for one year.
greta brawner
We talked about housing.
Brittany Madney, let's talk about this 10% cap on interest rates for credit cards.
Good idea?
brittany madni
I think that this is really speaking to the president's understanding that interest is unsustainable across the board and that Americans just can't handle the interest rates.
It also means that the president's really looking at the fact that Americans are putting more on their credit cards.
And that, again, when we're spending all of our money, whether it's the household or the country, on interest payments, then we're paying off yesterday's choices rather than making productive choices either on the individual level for the economy today and in the future or for the entire government.
So I'll bring us right back to Americans at home are feeling the same thing and it's happening widely across the nation.
So when our interest payments are what they are, again, $270 billion in interest payments just in the first quarter of this year, that's going somewhere.
That's going to paying off the choices that policymakers made in previous terms.
Now, what does that look like in terms of context?
Once we get to these numbers, they're so outrageous.
It's almost difficult to even imagine them.
Right now, we're at $1.22 trillion for our interest payments annually.
That's more than the GDPs of every country in the world except for 16.
Only the 16 largest global economies are bigger than our credit card bill.
natalie baker
That's a problem.
greta brawner
Natalie Baker, your thoughts on the credit card cap.
natalie baker
Sure.
I mean, this is a short-term policy.
It's one year.
This kind of intervention, it's like a sugar hit.
It's not really getting at what are the reasons why Americans have this credit card debt in the first place.
And again, I want to bring it back to cost of living here because we're seeing increasingly a growing number of households, millions of Americans, that are going into debt.
Partly, we've seen growing debt in utilities costs.
So this is just one example, but it's one of many of the reasons why American households are struggling.
And that is part of the reason.
But we haven't seen anything from this administration in terms of addressing those underlying issues on cost of living.
greta brawner
Kyle's in Reno, Nevada, in Independent.
Kyle, what is it like where you live?
donald j trump
Good morning.
michael mccaul
How are y'all?
Morning.
mark in california [2]
I am a disabled veteran.
I'm service connected at 100%.
I am single, so that means any additional programs I usually means test passed, meaning I won't qualify for them.
donald j trump
I have a very small apartment that is very overpriced.
It is considered a utility studio in the sense that the utilities are included with the cost of the rent.
mark in california [2]
However, it's listed per fee, so it's not like I don't pay for things.
tony in alexandria
I gave up the idea of owning a home decades ago.
donald j trump
My question is around the other things in the article you had, which were cars, affording a family.
I studied agricultural economics in college.
I believe this really comes down to the Gini Index, which some people would also call the wealth distribution factor.
In a perfect world, it's a regression line with an upward slope, but really it looks like a canoe and the disparity of poverty exists at the belly to the top.
I've never seen a corporation, food, vehicle, or utility give money back that they're already getting in.
Automization technology leads them to operate at a lower overhead, most generally, in the idea, but yet I don't see the money come back.
mark in california [2]
That's the first thing I would like someone to help educate me with.
greta brawner
All right, Kyle, I've got to leave it.
I've got to leave it there because there's other callers.
Natalie Baker will take that.
natalie baker
Sure.
Kyle, thanks for your question, and great to hear we've got a fellow economist among us as well.
So, you know, I hear what you're saying in terms of costs, but also your point about inequality.
And I think you're absolutely right that we have seen, and especially over the last year with things like the One Big Beautiful bill, policies of the government specifically going to benefit the top 1%, the very top of taxpayers in this country, with very little in terms of support for the majority of Americans.
So I think you're absolutely right to talk about inequality.
I love you throwing out some economics there.
And I just wanted to affirm that point that that is a major issue as well in all of this cost of living debate.
greta brawner
Claude is next in Seattle.
Democratic caller.
donald j trump
Yes, good morning.
greta brawner
Morning.
donald j trump
The state of Washington, the cost of living here is very, very expensive.
And over the years, it's been due to a lot of the policies, a lot of the, and this state is mostly controlled by Democrats.
And I'm a Democrat.
bob in new york
So it always seemed that they're never in the cutting mode here.
mark in california [2]
It's always about taxes, taxes, taxes.
bob in new york
Now, the housing situation here, I think the average house is maybe the average house is $400,000 if you can find a $400,000 house.
But there's a lot of things that go with that mortgage.
Increased Costs for Households 00:14:31
mark in california [2]
Now, you guys talk about the mortgage interest rates.
donald j trump
My homeowner's insurance, I'm retired.
bob in new york
My homeowner's insurance, I'm shopping around every year.
I've never done that in my life.
My homeowner went from $500,000 up to $1,500.
My property taxes here are just through the roof.
I'm 72 years old, and I'm trying not to go back to work.
tony in alexandria
But I mean, what do you do?
You guys talk about inequality.
donald j trump
It's always going to be inequality.
greta brawner
Claude, well, let's take what you said.
Brittany Manney will respond.
brittany madni
Claude, I think you make a good point about some of the challenges you're facing in your state, particularly.
A lot of these are state and local decisions.
For example, the property tax-that's a decision by your state government or your local government or both to be increasing the taxes that you have to provide the government for resources that you may not choose as the best use of your tax dollars.
So if we go back to the One Big Beautiful Bill Act, one of the wins in the One Big Beautiful Bill Act was really refocusing the spending on where it's needed most and trying to realign that with Americans' priorities.
So Natalie earlier talked about cuts to Medicaid.
What I would argue is that Medicaid is still increasing a dramatic amount, well over where we were in 2019, increasing continuously so that the amount that we're spending next year on Medicaid is still higher than the previous year.
The reason that's relevant is because the changes in the programs are to reassess who is in need of these dollars.
You mentioned there's always going to be some sort of inequality or inequity.
Unfortunately, that's part of the way the government has to deal with functions of our tax dollars.
Where do we need to spend them?
What are the priorities of the American people?
And if you're going to spend dollars on things like welfare, let's make sure that they're going to those who need them the most, rather than those who perhaps could be working if they had that little push.
greta brawner
Back to the New York Times poll this morning.
Many Americans see middle-class lifestyle as drifting out of reach.
Take a look at these numbers.
It's voters' feelings about affordability on the following items.
58% said education is unaffordable.
54% said housing is unaffordable.
On healthcare, 47% responded that it's unaffordable.
44% on having a family.
28% of those polled said groceries were too expensive.
And food coming in right after that at 26%.
And then utilities, 23%, and transportation, 22%.
We're asking all of you to join us this morning and tell us where is life unaffordable for you and what it is like where you live.
Terry in Lansing, Michigan, an Independent.
Good morning.
mark in california [2]
Well, good morning.
bob in new york
I wanted to first say that I've got a little different perspective on some of these things, and I believe that regardless of government policy, left, right, Democrat, Republican, there's an underlying issue that not only is being missed much of the time, but allows the problem to be circumvented or allows the solutions to be circumvented.
And it really has to do with the fact that people in government, in private business, all through have the concept that they can get over on everybody else and it's acceptable.
It's a matter of underlying dishonesty.
I could explain how I've experienced this and seen it.
I'm 71 years old.
I run a business.
I have for well over 30 years.
In any case, we're nibbling around the edges only when we are looking at government policy the way we are doing it now fighting Republican, Democrat, liberal, conservative.
There's underlying graft corruption, not only in government, but in the majority of businesses.
greta brawner
Let's talk about the business side of this.
Natalie Baker, corporate greed.
What does the Center for American Progress believe the Congress, the government could do on corporate profits?
natalie baker
Sure.
So, you know, I just wanted to quickly address, you know, Terry's comment, which is that, you know, the data supports this.
You know, Terry's is just one experience that many are feeling, that economic systems are not working for people in the way that they should be.
They're becoming disenfranchised from the economic systems, and part of that is also the politics and the policy as well.
So, you know, Terry's experience is just one, but I think a lot of folks around the country feel this.
You know, I think it's fair to say that there is a lot more that the government could be doing in terms of regulating corporations, particularly when we're thinking about tax policy and where we've seen huge tax cuts going to corporations over the last decades that have very little benefit for everyday working people.
So, you know, we think about tax as an instrument of redistribution.
It supports the government, supports the economy, sorry, in terms of making sure we have an efficient economy working the way that it should.
But the tax policies of the last decade have not been prioritizing either of those things.
greta brawner
Is it taxes, Brittany Manny?
I mean, we've heard President Trump talking about corporate profits.
He has been critical of insurance companies, corporate housing investors.
You've also heard him talking about profits for prescription drugs.
So when you hear the president, Republican, talking that way, what do you think?
brittany madni
I don't think it's about taxes whatsoever.
I think that this comes back to a fundamental disagreement we have.
This is about spending tax dollars inappropriately.
When we talk about corporate profits, well, the number one thing that the government could be doing about that is stopping giving tax dollars directly to major corporations.
The seven biggest health insurance providers outpace the S ⁇ P 500.
The corporate profits that are being supported by tax dollars are the first step in addressing some of the challenges that our friend Terry just mentioned.
What we really need to be doing is looking at some of the things that the president has identified.
So, for example, if we're talking about health care, as you mentioned, the president's been drilling down on, corporate profits are often directly tied to how they perform in the ACA subsidy market, or excuse me, in the ACA market.
The subsidies that they receive for the marketplace are tied to a structure called their medical loss ratio.
They basically have to spend 80 to 85 percent of all of their revenues from the federal government subsidies for health insurance on medical expenses in order to allow 20 percent to go toward what most people would think are profits, and that's including their administrative costs, their CEO salaries, et cetera.
But the thing that people are missing here is that it's not actually a cap on corporate profits.
All that does is increase the costs associated with that 80% so that they can keep spending or getting more on the 20%.
So, the more expensive health care is for the average patient, the more that the company gets to bring in in subsidies and the more their ratio allows them to make in profits.
greta brawner
Natalie Baker?
natalie baker
Look, I think at the end of the day, when it comes to healthcare, we have not seen actions actually address some of the cost drivers underlying these issues.
So, you know, we've, and over the course of the last year, we've seen cuts to healthcare.
And that's in terms of affordability.
It's also in terms of access.
So, your access to Medicaid or other health programs.
So, you know, we've seen billions of dollars of cuts in those areas.
And at the end of the day, that is not going to benefit American families.
greta brawner
Rick is next in Wisconsin.
Democratic caller.
tony in alexandria
Yes, thank you, ladies.
Yes, first of all, I'm really glad you touched on corporate greed.
It is rampant.
It's pretty much to me carved in stone that prices are not going to come down.
And I think our listeners need to get used to hearing this.
They're not going to come down.
Since Donald Trump has come into office, what has happened?
America is not great again.
And Donald Trump has brought this country to its knees.
I am a widower.
My late wife used to do all the shopping, and she would tell me about the prices.
And I just let it roll off my back until I had to start going into the grocery store and shopping for the past year.
mark in california [2]
And it is unbelievable the prices, how much the prices have gone up in the past year.
tony in alexandria
It's just mind-boggling.
greta brawner
Okay, Rick, let's get a response.
Brittany Madney, he blames the president.
brittany madni
I think it's fair to be concerned about prices continuing to increase.
What I would say is that we are still unburying ourselves from the massive spending in ARPA and all of these other so-called Inflation Reduction Acts, all of these other COVID programs that in fact didn't actually spend on COVID.
So for example, you had $350 billion in the state and local fiscal recovery fund supposedly for COVID.
The vast majority of that didn't actually go to any sort of COVID spending.
Instead, what we found was massive waste, fraud, and abuse.
So, tackling some of that waste, fraud, and abuse is going to start reining in overspending.
When we're reining in overspending, we're addressing the debt, the deficits, and starting to consider how we dig out of this interest hole.
greta brawner
Natalie Baker, you have said it's tariffs.
I just want to add, CNN, with a developing story, the president is raising tariffs on South Korea from 15 to 25 percent.
natalie baker
Sure.
So, you know, again, when we think about the Trump administration campaign on issues about cost of living, they were going to bring down the cost of groceries on day one.
We haven't seen that.
And what we have seen, as you mentioned, is tariffs.
And it's a new announcement every day, every second day.
But all of this translates to increased costs for American households.
So, you know, when you're at the grocery store, imported goods, that can be the result of tariffs.
But it can also be on non-imported goods as well because of the inputs that come in from manufacturing, but also the way that corporations may readjust their pricing to absorb the cost of tariffs.
And more of that is going to come, likely, over the course of 2026.
So, you know, it might be a good time in this economy if you're a corporate executive, but if you're, you know, a single person, if you're a working parent trying to afford groceries, rent, childcare, this is not a good economy for you.
greta brawner
Here is Steve in Tampa, Florida with a text to us this morning.
The most effective way to lower costs is through competition.
natalie baker
So I think that's exactly right.
More competition can help to reduce costs.
I'd say that's one part of the story.
And it's also thinking about competition, it depends in which industry or sector you're looking in as well.
So some industries, very, very competitive.
There's not so much you can do there, but in others, there's probably room in margins that you might see in terms of profits.
So competition, definitely one part of the story I would point to.
You know, particularly when you think about in the agricultural sector, for example, or processing on meat packing, that sort of thing, potentially issues in terms of competition.
But there's more that we can look at as well, all through the supply chain and more that we can do to help consumers.
greta brawner
We'll go to Linda, who's in Utah and Independent.
Linda, what is it like where you live?
What's the economy like?
unidentified
It's expensive.
Taxes have gone up on our houses, gas prices have gone up, live bills have gone up, food prices have gone up, a pound of hamburger right now is costing maybe $8 to $9.
And this is hamburger.
Chucksteak sometimes is cheaper than hamburger.
But my question is, what I'm kind of confused about is tariffs, they come in, supposed to bring the legit walleye all the government down.
susan collins
But the question is, I'm a businessman.
unidentified
I'm selling coffee for $17 of Folger's coffee right now.
susan collins
It's going for about $17.
I'm selling that for $17 because the tariffs have gone up.
What's my initiative?
People are buying at $17.
What's my initiative to lower the price on Folger's?
unidentified
That's why I'm not understanding.
The prices go up, but there's no initiative.
susan collins
If the tariffs are gone, the tariffs on coffee's gone, but the prices don't go down.
greta brawner
So Linda, you're not seeing demand decrease, which would help bring down the prices of everyday goods.
brittany madni
Yeah, Linda makes an excellent point.
If you were able to get your market to continue purchasing your Folger's coffee at $17 a serving or a can, why would you change that?
Well, the answer to that is competition, which I think our friend Stephen in Florida has already raised in the last question.
I have a saying that has stuck with me for a long time from Congressman Tom McClintock.
And he always asked the question, what makes Ford great?
unidentified
And the answer is Chevy.
Minimum Wage Debate 00:09:35
brittany madni
And I think that's the same thing we're seeing here.
What makes Folters the coffee that you want to purchase, want to drink, want to sell?
Well, the answer would be Maxwell House or Starbucks, right?
Because they're always being pushed to have a better product, but also to have a more affordable product.
So if you want the price to go down from $17, what you need is a competitive product that is at least $17, if not lower than that.
So I should say a maximum $17.
So if you can get a good cup of coffee or a good canister of coffee for a dollar or two less, then that's when you're going to start seeing the market forces naturally push that down.
greta brawner
Natalie Baker, do you agree?
natalie baker
So again, I just want to go back to the tariff impact here and cite some of the academic studies that we've seen.
You know, we've had really persistent, sticky inflation through 2025.
Inflation was coming down before that, and it's been sticky through 25, and likely we'll see some more impacts in 26 as well.
We don't know.
But what some of those studies do tell us about the inflation that's above where we would typically like it to be and where the Fed would would aim for, which is 2%, most of that inflation is because of the tariffs.
Now, how those tariffs filter through across the economy as a whole is sometimes in the background, and we're likely to see more of that happen over the course of the year as businesses face additional pressures to pass those costs through.
So, you know, I think in some ways there were rollbacks on tariffs on some kinds of groceries.
That's a good thing.
I think that's going to help.
But we still see very high tariff rates across the economy.
And so that is not going to do anything in terms of helping cost of living pressures this year.
greta brawner
Frank in Westport, Connecticut, with this text to us this morning, the tariffs coming in to our government.
How much went to pay off our government's $36 trillion problem?
brittany madni
Certainly not enough, Frank.
There are revenues coming in from tariffs, that's true, but there's not a situation in which we can possibly use tariff revenues to pay off our government debt if we continue to spend at the rate that we're spending.
So every dollar coming in, even if it's being used to reduce government debt, is still going to be up against the problem of exponential spending.
So as I mentioned earlier, on the discretionary spending appropriation spending side, we're increasing our spending by $55.2 billion just for about a quarter of the government, because that's all that's funded through appropriations.
So if we're increasing $55 billion for a quarter of the government, it doesn't really matter how much in tariff revenues you could potentially bring in if you're always going to outspend what you're taking in.
So that's what ought to be the first step is reducing some of the spending if we want to tackle the debt.
greta brawner
Virginia in Kansas, on our line for Republicans.
Welcome.
unidentified
Hello, how are all of you?
greta brawner
Doing well, Virginia.
Question or comment for our guests.
unidentified
Well, I'll let you decide.
natalie baker
So I want to talk about the minimum wage nationwide.
susan collins
There's such flexibility.
For instance, Washington state, like Seattle area, they're probably up to $17 an hour for minimum wage.
Kansas is only $7 and something an hour.
unidentified
You've got other states.
susan collins
The whole Midwest is like all really low minimum wage.
You're talking $7 an hour.
Where the Western is like, I don't know, $18 an hour.
I don't know what the Eastern is, but I know there's a lot of tolls on the eastern side of the state where the western sides don't have tolls.
That's why we call them freeways.
And the eastern side, they call them tollways.
I just want to know how there can be an equality nationwide with minimum wage.
I mean, Oregon doesn't have taxes when you go to the store to buy groceries or food.
Washington, they don't pay taxes on food, but yet you go to these other stores and there's tax on food, tax on non-edible products, tax, tax tax.
So I don't understand why there's such an unequality.
They're not equal.
greta brawner
And Virginia, and just to note, Seattle's minimum wage, $21.30 starting effectively January 1st, 2026.
We'll get a response from both of you.
natalie baker
Sure.
It's a great question, Virginia.
And I think what your question points out in all of this discussion, you know, Americans are paying more for less.
That's partly a cost story, but it's also a wages story, too.
And we've, over the course of the last year, seen real wage growth slowing, particularly for working class folks.
So that's a problem.
And, you know, in terms of the wages that folks, if you're on a minimum wage, for example, you know, that is not, that's not going to get you very far when you think about the cost of utilities, of rent, of groceries.
So that's a great question.
brittany madni
One of the challenges that Virginia has pointed out is that there are so many different methods across the country, whether there's a minimum wage discrepancy from one state to another or some of the other issues that she's mentioned, toll roads, for example.
Well, Congress needs to reauthorize something called the Highway Trust Fund.
There's the surface transportation bill that's coming up in Congress this year.
Really, if you want to look at some of the differences state to state, those are state decisions, not necessarily the federal government's decision, but there are some areas where the federal government can have influence.
So the highways are certainly part of that conversation.
Right now, a lot of the surface transportation highway dollars are being redirected away from paved roads that you might think of as a highway or a toll road or just a major thoroughway.
unidentified
And those are being redirected.
brittany madni
Those dollars have been redirected toward some local projects, including things like bike paths, for example, or walking trails.
Now, I'm not saying that a local community may not love their walking trailer or bike path, but that's something that the local community can and should be spending its dollars on, rather than taking away from federal highway dollars.
When that happens, then you're certainly going to have some challenges with road upkeep for some of the most traversed roadways, and that's what leads to tolls.
greta brawner
For Carl in Lexington, Kentucky, Democratic Collar.
Hi, Carl.
bob in new york
Yes, good morning.
unidentified
Good morning.
bob in new york
My basic comment, well, there's a comment and a question probably at the end, but I really believe that this is a philosophical question.
And I'll point it out that after the Second World War, the United States was, I believe, $90 trillion.
It was trillions of dollars in debt.
I can't give you the exact number.
But the philosophy was to build the economy back to a middle-out economy, which not only created the interstate highway system, created thousands and thousands of construction jobs because of the housing billed out and the guaranteed loans from the U.S. government.
Fast forward to the 1980s, the philosophy changed to a trickle-down economy, which meant that the emphasis was on competition and profits.
And the result is, even today now, is that CEOs make thousands, I think it's 1,000% more than the average worker.
And the credit card and consumer debt has risen just completely out of control.
So my question is, you know, what is your opinion about the conflicting philosophies in the economy and managing an economy?
greta brawner
All right, Carl, final thoughts here from both of our guests.
Natalie Baker?
natalie baker
Sure.
So it's a great question, Carl.
You know, you talk about something like an investment agenda.
I think that's a great idea.
We saw some of that from the Biden administration, but unfortunately through 2025, we've seen a lot of that rolled back.
So if we're thinking about the role of the federal government in creating a sustainable, durable, resilient economy, there's a lot more that could be done.
And the actions that were taken, unfortunately, we've seen rolled back.
brittany madni
I think this comes down to the federal government not picking winners and losers and using your hard-earned tax dollars to align the pockets of CEOs.
So for example, Blue Shield of California is the largest health insurance provider of the Affordable Care Act in the state of California.
They're registered as a nonprofit.
That means they have special tax statuses that allow them to not have to pay the same level of tax as other companies.
Well, it's a little concerning when you hear that they're then making $27 billion in revenue.
So how a company that makes $27 billion in revenue can be registered as a nonprofit, I think, is a little concerning to the average American.
So it's time to re-evaluate exactly where the government is spending its dollars.
Should it be subsidizing directly companies like that, or should it be reprioritizing and removing dollars from areas of unnecessary expenditures and thinking about our dot picture?
$27 Billion Nonprofit? 00:03:26
greta brawner
To learn more from Natalie Baker, you can go to AmericanProgress.org.
She's the Economic Analysis Director at the Center for American Progress.
And to learn more from Brittany Madney, she's the Executive Vice President of the Economic Policy Innovation Center.
Go to epic4america.org.
Thank you both for the conversation.
unidentified
Thank you.
greta brawner
Later on on this morning's Washington Journal, Practical and Effective Strategies and How to Get Through to Your Elected Officials with Bradford Fitch, who's the former CEO of the Congressional Management Foundation and author of the book, Citizens Handbook for Influencing Elected Officials.
But first, it's open forum after this break.
Your chance to weigh in on any topic in the news this morning.
Start dialing in now.
We'll be right back.
unidentified
Best ideas and best practices can be found anywhere.
greta brawner
We have to listen so we can govern better.
rodney in arizona
Democracy depends on heavy doses of civility.
alexander vindman
You can fight and still be friendly.
unidentified
Bridging the divide in American politics.
don bacon
You know, you may not agree with Le Doveround on everything, but you can find areas where you do agree.
greta brawner
He's a pretty likable guy as well.
unidentified
Chris Kins and I are actually friends.
greta brawner
He votes wrong all the time, but we're actually friends.
A horrible secret that Scott and I have is that we actually respect each other.
don bacon
We all don't hate each other.
unidentified
You two actually kind of like each other.
These are the kinds of secrets we'd like to expose.
ro khanna
It's nice to be with a member who knows what they're talking about.
unidentified
You guys did agree to the civility, all right?
don bacon
He owes my son $10 from a bed for a year.
greta brawner
He's a vice president.
unidentified
He'll fork it over.
That's fighting words right there.
I'm glad I'm not in charge.
I'm thrilled to be on the show with him.
alexander vindman
There are not shows like this, right?
jared moskowitz
Incentivizing that relationship.
unidentified
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greta brawner
We are back in open forum here this morning.
Any public policy or political issue on your mind responding to the news this morning as well.
So start dialing in.
Democrats 202-748-8000.
Republicans 202-748-8001.
And Independents 202-748-8002.
Here's a headline to share with you this morning from the Washington Post.
U.S. Judge orders ICE Chief to appear in court and threatens contempt ruling.
Here from the Washington Post reporting, Minnesota Chief Federal Judge has demanded that the acting head of the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement personally appear in court Friday to explain what the judge described as repeated failures to comply with dozens of court orders amid its enforcement efforts in the state.
The court's patience is at an end.
U.S. District Judge Patrick Schultz wrote in a remarkable filing late Monday, summoning acting ICE Director Todd Leonz to his courtroom.
The judge threatened possible contempt proceedings against Leonz over several instances in which Schultz said the agency failed to grant detained immigrants bond hearings that had been ordered by judges in Minneapolis.
That is the latest on ICE actions in Minnesota.
As we told you earlier, President Trump has decided to remove ICE agents from Minnesota starting today.
He has sent his border czar Tom Holman to sit down and have meetings with the officials in Minnesota.
The president speaking to the governor Tim Wells yesterday, Democrat, along with the Democratic mayor, Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Fry, and decided to take those actions after those phone calls.
Also, the headlines today indicating the rhetoric has changed from the White House as well.
You can respond to that news in the papers and any other news as well.
Richard in Staten Island and Independent, we'll hear from you first, Richard.
Good morning.
unidentified
Hi, good morning.
bob in new york
Thank you for taking my call.
I just wanted to pass along two comments.
The two young ladies that you had spoke about competing in the marketplace.
tony in alexandria
Well, I mean, I've heard that my whole life.
bob in new york
You know, 75 to 70 to 80, they spoke about competing, and that's been the running, you know, running phrase.
But only four families or four companies owned 85% of the entire friggin food industry.
So there is no competition.
And the other thing I wanted to say was that the court system is failing because there is nobody to hold these people accountable.
greta brawner
When you say these people, who are you talking about?
bob in new york
Oh, I'm sorry.
Yeah, I mean, the Trump administration, the DOJ.
Nobody's going to arrest anybody.
And they know this because they're the ones that are perpetrating everything that's happening.
So, I mean, the courts are at a standstill because of this, because there's no independence whatsoever.
greta brawner
Okay.
Lewis in Akron, Ohio, Democratic caller.
Lewis?
wayne paul
Hi, this is Lewis, and I'd like to make a suggestion.
Many young couples can't afford to buy a home, and I wonder why you don't hear anybody talking about affordable housing being the tiny houses.
unidentified
Okay.
wayne paul
That would be a lot more reasonable than building full-size houses for the people that can't afford to buy one.
bob in new york
Thank you very much.
greta brawner
Okay, Lewis with his idea on housing and affordability.
Pete, Surprise Arizona, Republican.
Pete, what's on your mind?
bob in new york
Hi, as we speak, there's a massive flotilla of American military power heading toward Iran, and war is imminent.
Israel has been at war with Iran and its Siad allies forty-eight 44 years.
And Netanyahu seems determined to finish them off in conjunction with America.
Trump just seems to be controlled by Netanyahu.
And the thing is, this is the third nature of war we'll be putting in the Middle East for in the last 25 years, and they're all based on live.
greta brawner
Okay.
Pete, a related headline this morning, here is the Associated Press website: Iran-backed militias in Iraq and Yemen threaten new attacks as U.S. aircraft carriers arrive.
Alexander Vinman Runs for Senate 00:07:05
greta brawner
This is out of Dubai.
Two Iranian-backed militias in the Mideast are signaling their willingness to launch new attacks, likely trying to back Iran, as officials acknowledged the arrival of a U.S. aircraft carrier to the region Monday.
President Trump ordered the carriers to move to the Middle East as he threatened military action over its crackdown on nationwide protests.
Yemen's Iranian-backed Houthi rebels on Monday hinted they were ready to resume attacks on shipping in the Red Sea.
That came just after Iraq's paramilitary group, long supported by Iran's paramilitary revolutionary guard, issued a direct threat late Sunday toward any attack targeting Iran, warning a total war in the region would be a result.
Bruce in Woodbury, New York, and Independent.
Bruce.
unidentified
Hey.
Morning.
michael mccaul
I just wanted to make two quick points.
I'm retired from the New York City Police Department after 30 years.
And I can tell you in all my time on patrol or dealing with other police officers and supervisors, none of my guys have ever felt the need to wear a mask.
bob in new york
And to me, it's just unconscionable.
rodney in arizona
You know, we worked in some pretty hairy situations.
And the other point I wanted to make was as far as what happened to Mr. Predty, I mean, wasn't it Donald Trump who paid reparations to Ashley Babbitt's family, who was, you know, the old saying, play stupid families won stupid prizes.
So that's kind of what I and the last point I want to make, and I apologize, is, you know, the DHS and White House are very quick to call out what they call domestic terrorists.
But how many people, how many of the people in the White House call the gentleman who sets fire to the synagogue in Jackson, Mississippi, who confessed to it, a domestic terrorist?
That's my point, and I appreciate you taking your time.
greta brawner
Bruce in New York, Independent.
In news this morning, Axios.com reporting, Alexander Vidman announces Florida Senate campaign as a Democrat.
He's the former National Security Council official who testified against President Trump during his first impeachment trial, and he's running to be the Democratic nominee in Florida's Senate race.
Vidman's entry into the Senate race gives Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer another high-profile candidate to try and force Republicans to spend heavily to defend a seat.
He is seeking to challenge Senator Ashley Moody, who was appointed to fill Secretary of State Marco Rubio's seat early last year when he joined the Trump administration.
Here is Mr. Vidman announcing his campaign as a Democrat.
mark in california [2]
Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Vindman, a National Security Council official who testified against the president during the impeachment hearings, has been fired.
Jim, the president has been fuming about Vindman apparently ever since he testified.
eugene vindman
The last time you saw me was here swearing an oath to tell the truth about a president who broke his.
See, my family came to America as refugees to escape tyranny.
alexander vindman
And I sure as hell was not going to bow down to some wannabe tyrant.
This president unleashed a reign of terror and retribution, not just against me and my family, but against all of us.
Today, our country is in chaos.
Thug militia is attacking citizens, tariffs pushing prices sky high, health care premiums through the roof.
And Florida homeowners are being absolutely screwed because Ashley Moody caved to the big insurance companies.
They put Moody in the Senate to be a yes vote for Trump and the billionaires.
She's not Florida senator.
She's theirs.
eugene vindman
I'm Alex Vidman, and I'm running to be your voice in the Senate.
alexander vindman
I served 21 years in the Army, was wounded in Iraq.
I served presidents of both parties, and I've seen corruption in Washington up close.
Over a million dollars in Moody's corporate stock was traded last year, while she had access to insider information only Congress gets.
eugene vindman
That should be outlawed.
alexander vindman
They gutted disaster assistance for people trying to rebuild their lives.
But she's okay with $40 billion bailouts for Argentina.
Where's the bailout for Florida's families?
I stepped up when my country needed a soldier.
I stood up when someone had to say no one is above the law.
I'm asking you, stand with me now to put a check on Donald Trump and the corrupt politicians who think your tax dollars are their personal piggy bank.
The billionaires in the special interests will throw everything they've got to try to stop us.
But in infantry, we didn't back down from the fight.
In a democracy, you decide who's going to stand for you, the patriot or the politician.
eugene vindman
Join us.
greta brawner
Alexander Vinman, who testified against President Trump in the impeachment trial, announcing he is running for the Florida Senate seat.
Axios notes that when his brother, Eugene Vedman, announced his run for Congress, he then quickly emerged as a fundraising juggernaut, pulling in 800,000 in his first 24 hours.
He went on to win his Virginia congressional race in 2024 and continued to post strong numbers and announced a total of $7 million in his first year in office.
Back to calls, Kelvin in Georgia, Democratic caller.
Kelvin, what in the news today is making you call in?
bob in new york
What's making me call in is a suggestion that I have for the whole country.
The Republicans have the White House, the Senate, and the House.
Once the Democrats take back the House, the Senate, and the White House, Republicans should never, ever be coming to power again, ever.
They should actually be extinct from Congress.
unidentified
And that's my opinion.
Because I've been watching the news all my life.
bob in new york
My father used to make me sit down and watch the news.
And this is my opinion.
Republicans should never come back in power.
greta brawner
All right.
All right.
Kelvin in Georgia, Democratic caller.
Sal is a Republican in New York.
Hi, Sal.
bob in new york
Hi, how are you doing?
tony in alexandria
I just want to answer like what that last guy just said, that Republicans should become extinct.
It's that left-wing narrative where, you know, if you're a Republican, you're a Nazi, you're a Hitler, you know, we should be extinct.
That type of rhetoric has got to stop.
And you don't hear that from the Republicans.
You only hear that from the leftist.
You only hear that from the Democrats.
And they need to, you know, Trump is trying to tone it down.
Left-Wing Narratives 00:02:04
tony in alexandria
He held out an olive branch to Waltz and to the mayor.
And he wants to make a deal with them where he's going to take out troops.
He took out Noam and he took out Bonvino.
greta brawner
And Sal, do you think those were all good decisions?
tony in alexandria
I think he's making an effort.
I don't see that from the Democrats.
I just continually see the hate rhetoric and the hate speech, and it makes these young people that are protesting, it riles them up and it infuriates them.
And then they take it out on the poor ICE agents that are just trying to withhold the federal laws of the government.
greta brawner
Sal, what about some of the actions from the ICE agents?
Do you have any concerns with what you've seen from them?
tony in alexandria
Well, I don't really see the last man that got shot.
I'm sorry he got shot.
bob in new york
I'm sorry the other lady got shot.
tony in alexandria
But, you know, Those men of ICE, they have families and they have children too.
And they want to go home at the end of the day.
And I don't know what those, that man came with 30 rounds of ammunition, right?
I mean, you ask me, he came there to go to war.
I don't know why anybody, you know, my father used to was a cop, and I don't even think he carried 30 rounds of ammunition.
Okay, so I don't know what to tell you.
I just don't, it doesn't sound right.
greta brawner
Okay, Sal in New York, a Republican with his thoughts on what we're seeing in ICE by ICE in Minnesota.
And as he mentioned, the president has decided to start removing ICE agents today in Minnesota.
Mike South Dakota Independent 00:13:24
greta brawner
3,000 were sent to the state after a phone call with Governor Tim Walz and Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Fride, both Democrats.
The president said that they would make that change.
He also sent Tom Holman, the Borders Are, to Minnesota.
He had a meeting yesterday requested by Homeland Security Secretary Christy Noam for two hours in the Oval Office with the Secretary along with her top aide, Corey Lewandowski.
According to the New York Times, it was requested by Ms. Noam and they met for two hours.
There's also headlines today saying calls for impeaching Christy Noam have increased and eight more Democrats have signed on to articles of impeachment against her.
Punch Bowl News say that she was sidelined by the president and instead sent Tom Holman to Minnesota instead of her to be the face of what happens next in that state.
Related to that, the political this morning, politico.com, capital agenda, no shutdown deal in sight.
Democrats are demanding changes to the DHS funding bill and Republicans are reluctant to engage.
Senators are scrambling to avoid a partial government shutdown later this week after Saturday's fatal shooting of Alex Predty by a federal agent has members of both parties debating what guardrails they can place on President Trump's immigration enforcement agenda and there's no deal in sight.
Today, senators gather in Washington to begin debate on the immigration funding bill.
That's money for the Homeland Security Department.
Immigration customs and enforcement falls under the department.
Democrats in the Senate appear united in opposition to funding the agency unless there are changes to their actions.
Take a listen to California Democratic Senator Alex Padilla.
alex padilla
They talk so much about the dangerous violent criminals they claim to be going after.
There's actually agreements with state and local law enforcement in Minnesota for those that are in detention, but that's not where they're going.
They're going into communities.
They're rounding up people who may be undocumented, but don't have a criminal history.
Clearly, they're rounding people up who are lawfully present.
They're not just shooting, they're killing United States citizens.
And what's the administration's response?
Oh, you have complete immunity.
No, that is not how we do things here in the United States.
We have laws.
We have a constitution.
We need to have justice.
We need to have accountability.
And that's what this budget fight is.
It's not just a matter of money.
How can you, in good conscience, continue funding a department without the guardrails and protections?
We need independent investigations.
Anybody who's been in government for more than a year knows this.
It happens at the local level, happens at the state level.
If there's an officer involved shooting, you need an independent review of what happened for purposes of accountability.
Short of an independent administrative review, you bring in the Department of Justice, but we don't have that under Trump.
Have, you know, from Secretary Noam on down, people just saying yes, sir, whatever he wants.
A formally independent Department of Justice has been weaponized, and so people need other resources.
And this is one of ours.
greta brawner
California Democrat Senator Alex Padilla yesterday on opposition to the Homeland Security funding bill.
Now, Susan Collins, who's a Republican from Maine and the chair of the Appropriations Committee, on the Senate floor yesterday, encouraging her colleagues to support the full funding package.
Listen to what she had to say.
susan collins
The tragic death of Alex Petri has refocused attention on the Homeland Security bill, and I recognize that and share the concerns.
I do want to point out to my colleagues that there are many safeguards that have been put in this bill that I would encourage them to review, and that the vast majority of the funding in this bill, more than 80%, is for non-immigration and non-border security functions.
It includes, for example, funding for FEMA.
We've just gone through a horrific storm that has caused a lot of damage.
And FEMA is very important.
It includes funding for TSA.
Those of us who travel back and forth through our home states every weekend are well aware of the work of TSA in keeping us safe.
It includes funding for cybersecurity and physical infrastructure protection.
And important to the states of the presiding officer in the state of Maine, it includes funding for the U.S. Coast Guard.
So, Madam President, I know that there will be many more speeches and discussions of all of the bills that are included in this package.
But let me just say that I hope we can come together in a constructive way to get this done and to ensure that we do not lurch into a dangerous and detrimental government shutdown.
greta brawner
Senator Susan Collins on the Senate floor yesterday, her colleagues returned to Washington today.
Tune in to C-SPAN 2's gabble-to-gabble coverage of the U.S. Senate as they turn their attention to a spending measure for the Homeland Security Department.
Mike in South Dakota Independent, we're an open forum this morning.
Mike, go ahead.
mark in california [2]
Yes, good morning.
I'm calling about the affordability.
The two young people you had on earlier in your panel, you know, I guess if I'm going to listen to somebody about economics, I'd like to have somebody that's been around a few decades telling me what is going on.
But the main thing is supply and demand.
When Joe Biden let 20 million illegals into the country, the demand for groceries went up.
So less groceries, higher prices.
Housing, same thing.
Some of these taxes, gas prices are down.
South Dakota, we're around 225, 235.
Depends upon what part of the city you're in.
But you look at that, it doesn't cost any more to get that gas to South Dakota as it does to California.
Yet, California, half of that price of a gallon of gas is taxes.
Then I heard him talking about some nonprofit insurance company out there.
I worked in insurance for 20 plus years.
They are for profit.
So why would you give tax breaks to an insurance company that is collecting Obamacare money?
Whoever did that, well, thank God they're not in office anymore, but something needs to be done and it has to be fixed.
greta brawner
Okay.
mark in california [2]
But once we can get rid of another 10 million illegals, it might take a couple years, but the prices will go down.
greta brawner
Mike in South Dakota, an independent chance, Uniontown, Pennsylvania, Democratic caller.
Hi, Chance.
unidentified
Hey.
rodney in arizona
Yeah, so I was calling to respond to Lewis.
Yeah, why not?
Why don't we all just get tiny houses and live in them and have nothing and not do anything with our lives?
I'm sorry that you've like spent $10,000 on your first house, but times have changed, man.
It's like, why don't we all just start selling ourselves on a shoe?
greta brawner
All right, that's Chance there.
Happening over on C-SPAN 2 this morning, live coverage of the National Transportation Safety Board holding a meeting on that mid-air collision near Ronald Reagan National Airport that killed 67 people in January of last year.
Board members will vote on the probable cause and safety recommendations to prevent similar crashes in the future.
Happening right now on C-SPAN 2 is our live coverage.
You can also watch on c-span.org as well as C-SPAN Now, our free video mobile app.
Also, to let you know at 3 p.m. Eastern Time, Maryland will hold a hearing in Maryland.
One of the state committees will hold a hearing on congressional redistricting.
That's the House Rules and Executive Nominations Committee happening in Annapolis today, 3 p.m. Eastern Time.
And you can watch that on C-SPAN 3, C-SPANNOW, and C-SPAN.org.
Crystal in Yuma, Colorado, Republican.
Good morning.
rodney in arizona
Good morning.
mark in california [2]
I would like to say that I'm retired.
rodney in arizona
When my Social Security goes up, my Medicare goes up.
So therefore, we don't get a raise.
mark in california [2]
I've been Republican forever, and I believe in Trump and what he's doing.
unidentified
Our eggs have went down.
Our gases went down.
At least we can afford that.
susan collins
And we can afford some of the groceries.
greta brawner
Crystal, what do you want from him today when he is in Iowa?
Because he's going to be talking about the economy there at 4 p.m. Eastern Time.
What do you want to hear from him?
rodney in arizona
I want to hear him continue to help.
susan collins
Help people, help the elderly, get rid of the Democrats.
They are hurting us so bad.
Look at what Obama did.
He raised everything.
greta brawner
Everybody got setback from that.
susan collins
So it's harder for us today to make it.
greta brawner
Okay, Crystal, you'll be able to watch The President as well everybody else right here on C-SPAN.
Live coverage at 4 p.m. Eastern Time.
Download our free video mobile app, C-SPAN Now, if you can't watch your television or online on demand at c-span.org.
Up next, Bradford Fitch, former CEO of the Congressional Management Foundation and author of the book, Citizens Handbook for Influencing Elected Officials.
He'll join us to talk about practical and effective strategies on how to get through to your elected officials.
Stay with us.
We'll be right back.
unidentified
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Lobbying Strategies Explained 00:14:34
unidentified
Washington Journal continues.
greta brawner
At our table this morning, Brad Fitch.
He's the author of Citizens Handbook for Influencing Elected Officials.
Mr. Fitz, in 2010, your first appearance on the Washington Journal for the first edition of your book, you said that Americans have more influence over their elected officials than they realize.
unidentified
That's right.
greta brawner
Has that changed?
alex padilla
No, it hasn't.
greta brawner
It's interesting.
alex padilla
The book is in two parts, and the second edition is twice the size, and all the changes came in the second part, which is about how to influence them.
Congress, in terms of how it interacts with constituents, hasn't changed that much in terms of what motivates them, what influences them.
And I realize this is a bit of a counter argument from what people see, but the challenge is that most people don't see most of what the Congress does.
Because you see the big debates over taxes and immigration and abortion and sometimes health care.
tony in alexandria
Most members of Congress, frankly, are not involved in those big debates.
unidentified
That's leadership or committee chairs.
alex padilla
Most members of Congress are meeting with constituents to determine whether or not to increase funding for research on Alzheimer's or whether horses should be transported on double-decker trucks or whether ophthalmologists or optometrists get to use laser surgery at VA hospitals.
That's what most of constituents and most advocacy that's happening on Capitol Hill.
And when it comes to those issues, Congress very much listens to constituents who matter to them.
greta brawner
How do politicians interact with their constituents?
alex padilla
Well, interestingly, one of the things that has changed in the last 15 years since the first and second edition is they've continued to open up more doors and be more accessible.
Once again, I know that flies in the face of popular belief, but the two big technological changes to how Congress interacts with constituents are first the adoption of social media.
Members just jumped into that swimming pool with both feet with Twitter, now X, Instagram, and Facebook.
And then the other major development is telephone town hall meetings, which is especially during the pandemic was one of the only ways that constituents could interact with them.
And the reason I see so much promise in telephone town hall meetings is they're scalable.
In 2021, more than 3 million Americans participated in a congressional telephone town hall meeting.
tony in alexandria
And there's very few other reforms to our democracy that has that kind of promise.
greta brawner
What has happened to the televised town halls?
Well, they have significantly diminished primarily for security purposes.
alex padilla
And I generally support that move because our in-person town hall is nice, it's intimate, but 25 to 50 people is the average number of people going to a telephone town hall compared to an in-person town hall.
In a telephone town hall, you get 3,000 to 5,000 constituents in there.
tony in alexandria
And you do a bunch of those in a year.
alex padilla
You're really reaching a lot of your own constituents in a very meaningful, free-for-a-way.
greta brawner
Let's talk about emails.
Congress now receives upwards of 50 million emails a year, according to estimates, with some House offices getting more than 180,000 annually.
Who is looking at these emails?
tony in alexandria
Well, every message that comes in is scanned and reviewed by a staff member.
alex padilla
Most of these emails are facilitated and generated by trade associations and nonprofits who are exercising their First Amendment right to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
Sometimes people will see things that will get them upset and they'll email in.
tony in alexandria
I call that more of an organic, not a facilitated grassroots campaign.
alex padilla
And it's really based on the news.
tony in alexandria
I'll give you a statistic.
alex padilla
In 2017, when President Trump made certain nominations that upset many Americans, I'll take one case study, Senator Bob Casey of Pennsylvania.
And in the month of January of 2016, he got 1,000 emails from constituents on education.
In 2017, after some of the Trump nominations, he got 46,000.
So sometimes it is just something people see in the news that get them upset, that contact them, but then they're reviewed by staff.
Increasingly, they're starting to, I think, use AI to scan these to make it easier.
They're not letting computers respond, but they are using technology much better than they used to to try to keep a handle on these communications.
greta brawner
Are these emails taken seriously by the member, the elected official?
Absolutely.
alex padilla
Usually the members get these reports, usually on Fridays, and they'll say what mail has come in.
They'll keep track of that.
But individualizing communications, all the research that I did when I was at the Congressional Management Foundation shows that that is much more powerful than a form email.
When you localize it, talk about it personally, how it's going to affect you, your community, your family, you have much more influence.
greta brawner
We want our viewers to join us in this conversation this morning.
Have you tried to influence your elected official?
If so, we want to hear from you this morning.
If you're looking for recommendations on how to influence your elected official, call in this morning as well.
Democrats, 202-748-8000.
Republicans, 202-748-8001.
And Independents, 202-748-8002.
You can text if you don't want to call at 202-748-8003.
Just include your first name, city, and state.
Brad Fitch, is there a success story of constituents, either a constituent solely influencing an elected official or a group who have come together to change the minds of their elected representative?
alex padilla
I'll give you both.
There's a great case study in the book that I heard about when I was doing research for the second edition.
There was a woman, Manya Cholinski, who lived in Boston and was at the Boston Marathon in 2013.
when the bombing happened.
And, you know, people were killed, hundreds of people were injured.
She was fortunate, she felt, because she had not been physically injured, but she realized within a very short period of time that she was suffering from PTSD.
When she went to try to get support from the government for help to manage her mental wellness, she realized that FEMA, while they had grants for people and communities that were hurt physically due to natural disasters or terrorism, there was nothing for mental wellness.
Well, Manya told her congresswoman, Ianna Presley, who said, you're right, there ought to be a law.
And in December of 19, in 2022, Joe Biden signed into law a new grant program to help people who are injured mentally with mental wellness issues as a result of that one woman's story.
On the group side, one of the most successful group stories, I also did a case study in this is the Alzheimer's Association.
Alzheimer's is a devastating disease, dementia or Alzheimer's.
Two out of five Americans are either going to have dementia or Alzheimer's or are going to care for somebody who dies.
In the last 10 years, they have organized what they call an ambassador program where they get one person who's very educated, who's connected to the disease in some way, and they go talk to their member of Congress and say, there's thousands of your constituents that are affected by this.
It is one of the most successful grassroots efforts in decades.
In the last 10 years, the amount of money that the federal government spends to try to find a cure to Alzheimer's has increased by 700%.
And you don't read about these stories in the local news.
You know, success stories like this don't usually get the type of news coverage, and they should, because they really are our democracy working the way it's supposed to.
greta brawner
Why did you decide to write these handbooks, the first edition, the second edition?
tony in alexandria
I felt the story needed to be told.
alex padilla
It hadn't been told.
tony in alexandria
I had been working in and around the Congress, and I now have been working with the Congress for 40 years.
alex padilla
And some years ago, I was in the private sector and had an opportunity to work with a publishing house and said, hey, I've got these ideas on how to influence Congress and how Congress works.
tony in alexandria
I want to write in a very practical way that people find approachable and easy to read.
I'm a former broadcast reporter, so I do write in more of the spoken word than the written word.
alex padilla
And then I just got lucky.
The second edition, you know, the publisher came to me and said it's time to do an upgrade.
And I was delighted to jump into that project.
greta brawner
From the handbook, by design, the American Congress is slow and deliberative.
Individual legislators must wrestle with this deliberative system, blending their own beliefs into a legislative melting pot that ideally produces positive societal outcomes.
They use a kind of political math to make decisions, weighing multiple factors when determining whether to vote for a bill, co-sponsor legislation, or support funding for an initiative.
When all the details are burned away, legislators generally follow three voices when making a decision.
One member of Congress called these voices the three H's, heart, head, and health, meaning political health.
alex padilla
I love that story because I got that from a chief of staff, the three H's.
And to go into more detail, head, they like studying issues and making decisions based on their own judgment after studying an issue.
tony in alexandria
I was interviewing a member of Congress for the book, and I was asking him about a difficult decision he had to make.
alex padilla
And he said, yeah, I'm now in favor of what was called cap-and-trade legislation, which was anti-climate, pro-climate change to help with the climate.
And I said, wait, you're from a coal-producing state.
Isn't that a little unusual?
Why did you take out this position that is pro-climate change relief?
tony in alexandria
And he pointed to a pile of papers in the corner of his office and said, I read the UN report on climate change.
alex padilla
They are influenced by these things.
Heart, personal stories.
All the research on the psychology and the neuroscience of persuasion tells us that emotional stories are more powerful than rational arguments.
tony in alexandria
Once again, I was interviewing a member and asked him about a difficult decision.
And he said, I was torn on what to do on whether or not to support or oppose research for stem cell research, which is very controversial at the federal level.
And I said, what changed your mind?
alex padilla
And he said, well, I was meeting with a young constituent.
tony in alexandria
He's a 17-year-old, young man.
He said, Congressman, I have juvenile diabetes.
alex padilla
It's my hope that this research one day might lead to a cure to me and others like me.
And the congressman told me how he did further research, and he ended up co-sponsoring legislation that would provide federal funding for stem cell research.
tony in alexandria
And he was a pro-life Republican.
alex padilla
And then head political health.
tony in alexandria
They're always going to be doing the math.
alex padilla
They're always going to look at how many constituents are affected by a particular issue.
Is this going to affect them politically?
And they want to know how many people are really going to be helped or hurt as a result of their decision.
greta brawner
Let's get to calls.
Thomas is first in Daytona Beach, Florida, an independent.
Thomas?
rodney in arizona
Yes.
You know, usually if I try to contact Congress, I don't try to call them.
I email them.
But I'll be honest with you.
There's two reasons I think we're just wasting our time.
One is Citizens United.
I mean, you have people like Elon Musk that contribute $271 million to Donald Trump's last presidential bid here.
The other thing is Congress, so many of them now are doing the insider trading that I don't really think that they, I think everything we tell them goes in one ear and out the other.
greta brawner
Okay, we'll take those two points, Thomas.
Brad Fitch.
tony in alexandria
Well, I'm not going to touch campaign finance reform.
I'm assuredly not an expert in that field.
greta brawner
Just the influence, though, of corporations versus grassroots.
tony in alexandria
You know, I'll give you an example.
alex padilla
Thomas, I was doing a focus group for my book, and I asked the chiefs of staff, who has more influence on you?
Someone who gives $1,000 to your campaign or someone who goes to a town hall meeting.
And they kind of looked at me quizzically and one replied, it depends upon who has the best argument.
We listen to both.
The reality is, yes, campaign contributors do get the ears of members of Congress.
tony in alexandria
I mean, that is just a known fact.
alex padilla
The research on that has been actually pretty clear and convincing.
But the research also shows is there's no correlation between campaign contributions and legislative outcomes.
tony in alexandria
I really hope, Thomas, you rethink contacting your member of Congress.
alex padilla
You've got some great lawmakers in Florida, and I know they want to hear from you.
tony in alexandria
If you write an individual letter that just says, this is my concern, or an email, it will get read.
The response may not be very well written.
alex padilla
That's one complaint I have with my members of Congress is they are a little robotic in how they respond, but they do read everything that comes into the mail.
greta brawner
Thomas says he emails, how do you try to influence your elected officials?
Democrats, tell us at 202-748-8000.
Republicans, dial in at 202-748-8001.
And Independents, 202-748-8002.
Mike in Texas, a Republican.
Hi, Mike.
unidentified
Yes, hi.
bob in new york
How you doing?
tony in alexandria
Morning.
bob in new york
I'm set up about the taxes, property taxes going up, and I'm not able to work because I'm disabled and I need help.
Reduction of taxes, at least.
greta brawner
So, Mike, how have you tried to Mike, and how have you tried to communicate this to your local officials who set the property taxes?
unidentified
And an email, then a registered letter, and it doesn't get there.
greta brawner
Okay.
bob in new york
For some reason, it takes six weeks for the post office to send the letters downtown to San Antonio Courthouse about property taxes.
greta brawner
All right, so Mike has sent a letter.
What would you suggest, Brad Fitch?
Show up at meetings that they have about property taxes at the local level.
karoline leavitt
What do you do?
alex padilla
Yeah, I do agree with that strategy of reaching out and communicating.
I will offer a couple other pieces of advice.
One, going in groups helps.
So if you're with a homeowners association and you want to meet with your local county council member or city council member because you're concerned about property taxes and you pull together five or six people at your home in someone's living room or go into their office, that's going to make more of a difference than just one person.
Calls and Emails Shape Policy 00:09:14
alex padilla
Again, the political math is important.
tony in alexandria
Know your issue.
And by the way, the fact that you are affected by it, that makes you an expert.
I know people don't believe that they're experts, but to an elected official, if you're affected by that issue, they're going to listen to you more.
alex padilla
There's two types of people that lobby Congress and state and local officials.
There's people with an opinion and people with an interest.
Someone gets up at a town hall meeting and says, Congresswoman, I think we ought to get our troops out of Syria.
Congresswoman's going to listen to that person.
If the next person gets up and says, Congresswoman, I think we ought to get out of Syria because my daughter is stationed there.
tony in alexandria
That second person has a completely different relationship with that elected official.
alex padilla
They literally have skin in the game and they have more influence.
greta brawner
What about polls?
I mean, I want to show this YouGov poll that we were talking about earlier today, based on what you know was the shooting of in Minneapolis of the man there, justified or not justified.
And you can see the answers there.
20% said not, was justified.
48% said not justified.
32% said not sure.
How influential, not this topic, but how influential are polls like this conducted in snapshot of time on politicians?
tony in alexandria
At the national level, when we're talking about these big federal issues like the one you just talked about, immigration reform, they definitely shape members of Congress's thinking and behavior.
And I'm speaking as someone who worked intimately with members of Congress and was literally in the room when the decisions were made to do certain things.
alex padilla
So when you're talking about these major issues, abortion, immigration, taxes, sometimes health care, you can definitely see the movement like you.
I'm a reader of all the Washington publications and you can see what's going on right now with Republicans on immigration and on health care.
And those polls are moving it.
But I'll tell you what else is moving it is the calls into their offices and the emails they're getting into their offices.
That really, when they start seeing those volumes go up and they know that it's largely organic and not facilitated, they pay attention.
greta brawner
What about internal polling conducted by research firms that may be affiliated with the party versus polls conducted, youGov, AP may get a poll done.
Other news outlets will have polls done.
tony in alexandria
The way I describe it is for members of Congress making a decision, it's like a mosaic.
alex padilla
And data can come in from a variety of sources.
It can come from their campaign polls.
It can come from national polls.
It could come from someone they met at their kids' Little League game.
In fact, one of my most famous stories I heard was a member of Congress was coaching first base at his son's Little League game and a woman, mom from the other team came over and gave him a lecture on Middle East peace policy.
tony in alexandria
And the reason I love that is because he couldn't leave first base.
She's got him trapped and for three outs.
And so, you know, yeah, they do absorb it.
I knew one senator, she told me how she would go shopping at the grocery store, and she loved doing that.
alex padilla
She said it would take two to three hours.
tony in alexandria
She learned very early on, don't get the ice cream at the beginning of the visit because it's going to melt by the time you get out.
alex padilla
And she just talked to people in the aisles, and they're like, amazing.
tony in alexandria
United States Senator doing her own grocery shopping.
alex padilla
But she said it was a great way to stay in touch with people.
greta brawner
We are talking about how you influence your elected officials.
Brad Fitch is with us and he is the author of Citizens Handbook for Influencing Elected Officials.
You get to call in and ask him questions about how it's done.
Caroline in Alliance, Ohio, Democratic Color.
unidentified
Well, hello.
don bacon
And I am a Democrat, and I live in Ohio, and all my representatives are Republican.
And I have always sent through the years a few emails, and I've written a letter or two.
unidentified
But I'm more likely now just to make a phone call.
patty murray
It's just so easy to dial a number.
don bacon
And I always wonder if these Republican representatives, senators, whatever, just look up.
And they always want to know my, am I from the state of Ohio?
patty murray
Am I, do they represent me?
unidentified
And they always want my address and phone number.
bob in new york
And then in my mind, they'll look me up on a voter roll, find out I'm a Democrat, and just throw my suggestion away.
greta brawner
Well, let's take that.
Can they even look her up on a voter roll?
tony in alexandria
No.
alex padilla
I mean, data companies can, but there are so, as Greta said, they're getting tens of thousands of emails and letters and calls a month.
bob in new york
They don't have time to do that.
alex padilla
They represent all constituents.
Again, one of the myths out there is there is a huge dividing line in congressional offices between their official activities and their campaign activities.
tony in alexandria
They do not mix.
alex padilla
And when they do, they usually get caught and sometimes get in trouble either with the ethics committee or with election laws.
I will say the reason they're asking you your address is both by law and by practice, members of Congress can only represent their own constituents.
They're not allowed to use their office resources to talk to other constituents in the state.
Again, this is the republic that Mr. Hamilton and Mr. Madison gave us, that we are represented in a representative democracy.
tony in alexandria
It's not a parliament, so it's not the party that is representing you.
It is your individual lawmaker.
And the challenges with phone calls, Carolyn, is that, you know, a phone call, you really can communicate up or down, yay or nay.
alex padilla
That's it.
And that's the data point that the office collects, and it does go into a tally.
But with an email or at a telephone town hall meeting, you can be much more expressive and much more influential.
greta brawner
Here's a question from Joe on X to you, Mr. Fitch.
Is there any evidence that communicating with elected officials via social media is effective?
alex padilla
Yes.
When I worked at the Congressional Management Foundation, we did surveys of congressional staff.
And one of the things that we saw is they are constantly scanning X and Facebook and Instagram.
tony in alexandria
And it's just those three for comments.
alex padilla
Now, often they're looking for influencers or people at the highest level, but they don't have consistent systems for reporting that data out as they do with email messages coming into the congressional office where they have better, more sophisticated technology to tally what those pros and cons are.
tony in alexandria
So with social media, it's much more of a cacophony that they're trying to capture.
alex padilla
But the advantage of X is it's wicked faster, right?
tony in alexandria
You know, if somebody says something on Twitter, you get five or six people within the same hour talking about a topic on Twitter.
alex padilla
The communications director will bring that to the lawmaker.
tony in alexandria
In fact, I'll give you an example from C-SPAN on how I saw it happen once.
I was waiting to come on the show, Washington Journal, some years ago, and a congresswoman was on Washington Journal and was taking questions on the debt ceiling.
And her press secretary and I were in the waiting room.
alex padilla
And she's out there looking at her phone, and she's watching the congresswoman, and she's like, oh, they like that on Twitter.
tony in alexandria
Oh, they didn't like that.
She's getting a line-by-line analysis of her.
greta brawner
Real-time reaction.
unidentified
Real-time.
tony in alexandria
And I asked the press secretary, is the congresswoman going to see that?
She said, oh, yes, she's going to grab this out of my hand before she gets to the elevator.
alex padilla
She loves this.
I mean, the thing about social media and Congress is this instant gratification or the opposite.
tony in alexandria
And you've got to remember, these politicians want to please you.
alex padilla
They are politicians.
That's why they went into this.
tony in alexandria
One member of Congress said to me famously, members of Congress are still middle children trying to make their father happy.
greta brawner
What do you think about them coming on a program like this where they get to hear from real people, sit down and do an interview and take questions and comments from the public?
alex padilla
They love it.
That's why they like telephone town hall meetings, is because they get a very raw assessment of what's going on.
And that's why many of them like in-person town hall meetings.
If they're doing in-person town hall meetings, then they're doing it because they like it.
And if they start hearing the same thing in different parts of their district, they feel like that's the tip of the iceberg and they're capturing it.
I remember I was working as a communications director for a House member, and we're in Glen Bernie and we hear a question in Glen Bernie, Maryland, and then we go to Annapolis the same week having a telephone town hall meeting.
tony in alexandria
Same question comes up from a different person.
The congressman comes back to the chief of staff in Washington and says, everybody's talking about it.
I'm like, two people are talking about it, Congressman.
But anyway, that's their impression.
alex padilla
So yeah, they really do listen carefully and kind of use this as another gauge, another sort of stone in the mosaic of information they collect.
greta brawner
David in Independence, Louisiana, Independent, good morning.
alex padilla
Good morning.
mark in california [2]
Mr. Fick, I have a capital advantage.
I don't know what it's called nowadays.
Mine says 102nd Congress has all the contact information for all the politicians.
And I haven't heard you bring that up, but I know the people that do this show, the host, Ms. Greta and Mr. John, especially, they have a love and a respect for the politicians, which just I can't understand because I personally wouldn't shake hands with a politician.
Why Gerrymandering Matters 00:11:59
alex padilla
None of them.
mark in california [2]
They have negatively impacted my life, my wife's.
tony in alexandria
I've seen my mom and daddy work till they drop dead.
rodney in arizona
And their little small business, they didn't build that.
unidentified
All right.
mark in california [2]
And I know for a fact, because of history, they negatively jerk my grandparents around.
All they have was World War I, Prohibition, the Depression, World War II, 40, 50 years out of their life.
I'm just sick of them.
And maybe in Louisiana, things are different.
You know, we have some weird politicians here, but me and my wife have personally tried to contact all of them.
That's Cassidy and Kennedy and our representatives and all.
rodney in arizona
And we have never gotten any response from anyone.
alex padilla
None of them.
greta brawner
All right.
David, Brad Fitch, talk about the sentiment there because you see it reflected in polls that people don't trust members of Congress.
Their approval ratings are very low.
Does that mean that elected officials are hearing from constituents less and less?
alex padilla
Oh, I don't think they're hearing from them less and less, but I do understand the sentiment with what people see in the media that the coverage is so negative.
tony in alexandria
But I've got to tell you, I've been affiliated with the United States Congress for 40 years as a staffer and as a consultant.
alex padilla
And here's the myth I'm going to bust up.
tony in alexandria
They're not bad people.
They're good people.
alex padilla
They're decent public servants, sometimes trapped in a system that doesn't seem to work for us.
But I'm telling you, most of these people are really good-hearted individuals.
tony in alexandria
Now, I'm not saying that the American public doesn't occasionally send a CAD or a criminal to the halls of Congress.
unidentified
They do.
tony in alexandria
We've had some real doozies lately.
alex padilla
But those are the exceptions.
Most members of Congress are really decent, hardworking public servants.
And let me give you another data point that shows that they're listening to constituents.
When I worked at the Congressional Management Foundation, we did surveys of congressional staff between 2003 and 2023.
We did five major surveys, and we always ask this question: if your member of Congress has not arrived at a firm decision on an issue, how much influence might the following advocacy strategies directed to the Washington office have on his or her decision?
So, hundreds of staffers answering this question.
In 20 years of surveys, the number one answer always was in-person visit from constituents.
Now, you contrast that with the cynicism people have.
They think they're not listening, but they really, really are.
tony in alexandria
I joke, members of Congress are the best pollsters in the world because they're the only pollsters who, if they get the answer wrong, they lose their job.
alex padilla
So, they have a vested interest both morally and politically to understand the mood and the sentiment of their constituents.
greta brawner
What about the influence of lobbyists versus those constituents visiting them?
alex padilla
I don't even use the term lobbyists anymore.
I call them professional advocates versus citizen advocates.
And I write about this in the book: that they both play essential roles in our democracy.
tony in alexandria
Professional advocates are usually national experts on a particular policy.
Subject matter experts, usually former congressional staff.
greta brawner
Citizens are local experts.
alex padilla
They're the ones that can localize it and personalize it.
Lobbyists are not the evil caricature that you see on television and in the movies.
tony in alexandria
They're actually, most of them are representing a disease or a doctor in Washington, D.C., because we have a lot of diseases in a lot of different medical professions.
alex padilla
And their credibility is essential to their own welfare and their financial future.
tony in alexandria
Because if you get a lobbyist who starts BSing their member of Congress or their person that they're meeting with, they're not going to get invited back.
alex padilla
They have to be very good experts on their field in their topic when they're interacting with lawmakers.
greta brawner
Carol in Elgin, Texas, Democratic caller.
rodney in arizona
Yes, thank you, Mr. Fitch, for taking the question, and thank you, Greta, for being with C-SPAN.
C-SPAN does a wonderful job.
I always support him.
Mr. Fitch, I live in Texas, and we had horrible flooding over the summer.
Dozens of young children marched away and lost their lives.
And when they called a special session to deal with it, the phone rang from the White House, and Donald Trump called and said, I need five more congressional seats.
I need it gerrymandered even worse than it is.
And so they pushed all of that discussion they were going to have about all of that flooding and the horror that it had caused.
And they pulled out the maps.
They literally pulled out the maps the next day and they had them up there and they started redistricting for five more seats.
And the Democrats left the state and they stalled it as long as they could.
But the bottom line is they gerrymandered Texas again.
It's been gerrymandered for a long time in favor of it, but they gerrymandered it again for five more seats for Republicans.
And then they went back to the normal business that they said they were there to do.
greta brawner
Well, Carol, let's take that point.
How much influence does the president or leadership of their own parties have over them and how they react and vote on legislation, topics of the day, versus their constituents?
alex padilla
Well, let me separate the leadership with the president.
The president has as much influence related to how popular the president is at any given time.
You know, the president's very popular, Ronald Reagan, I think of the Reagan years and the first four years, five years of the Reagan presidency, had an enormous amount of influence on both Democrats and Republicans.
People have to remember that during the entire time that President Reagan was president, he had a House of Representatives allegedly controlled by the Democrats.
But he still got his agenda passed in part, and that was in part because of his personal popularity.
Leadership, on the other hand, in the United States Congress has less influence than constituents do, unless it's one of those super big, major issues like the Affordable Care Act or taxes or something like that.
But most of the issues that people are contacting their lawmaker about aren't those major issues.
And members of Congress are free to support or oppose their constituent views.
Leadership doesn't really care whether or not you support more funding for Alzheimer's research or whether or not you're going to propose a bill that's going to change how the EPA regulates ponds on farms.
I mean, that's just not something leadership cares about.
And I will tell you, one other area where leaders are matter to members of Congress in voting is when a particular leader, let's say a committee chairman, is seen as a subject matter expert.
I remember looking at a member once, and he would always look to this one particular Armed Services Committee chairman and ask his staff, how is he voting on this?
And that's where leadership and it was not because of influence or power, it's because the lawmaker respected the chairman's views as an expert.
greta brawner
What about when you have a national debate and it's a tight vote in the House or the Senate and leadership is twisting arms behind the scenes?
And that lawmaker, especially from a swing district, is saying to themselves, I do not want the headline in my local paper to say, I saved X or whatever it is.
alex padilla
And it could cost them their seat.
I think back to the vote that Marjorie Margolis-Mesvenski took in 1993 to support the Clinton tax bill.
tony in alexandria
And she was, I mean, literally saw on C-SPAN.
alex padilla
She was walking down the aisle and their leadership was literally arm in arm with her as she changed her vote.
And she lost her seat as a result of it.
So, yeah, that is something that goes into the calculus where they have to weigh their own conscience versus their political future.
And frankly, by and large, most of the times they're going to go with their political future and try to keep their seat.
If it's such a high-profile vote that they think they might lose their seat over it.
greta brawner
One last call.
Tony, Alexandria, Virginia, Republican.
tony in alexandria
Yes.
I was just curious, with all the gerrymandering going on, does it really matter for most of these Congress people what my opinion is?
I mean, I've got a Democratic congressman in my district, and I've called him once, and I felt like the people that the Democrats were actually rooting him on to not really pay attention or care about my concerns.
greta brawner
All right, Tony.
tony in alexandria
Gerrymandering.
Well, I, like many Americans, am appalled by both what's happening in gerrymandering.
alex padilla
I think it's absolutely unconstitutional, to be honest with you, in my opinion.
tony in alexandria
I'm not an expert in gerrymandering, but when I see states like North Carolina or Virginia disenfranchise a significant portion of whether it's Democrats or Republicans, I'm just appalled by it.
And I don't think we should have it.
alex padilla
But again, no one's listening to me when it comes to that stuff.
tony in alexandria
Tony, I would say that, you know, and I do know you're a member of Congress.
alex padilla
I'm not going to mention who it is because I'm a Virginian and I'm in the district next to you.
They do listen.
They do pay attention.
Most members of Congress, when they get elected, feel that they represent all of their constituents, not just 50% plus one in a primary.
They really do have that both moral and political will to try to listen to you.
It doesn't mean they're going to do what you say.
As I said, they factor a lot of different things into their decision-making process, but they do feel it's their responsibility to listen.
And that's why they have telephone town hall meetings, and that's why they go to constituent meetings and spend most of their time that they can with constituents.
greta brawner
For Tony and others, Maryland is considering redistricting today at a House Rules and Executive Nominations Committee at the Capitol in Maryland, Annapolis.
And we're going to have live coverage of that at 3 p.m. today, 3 p.m. Eastern, right on C-SPAN 3, C-SPAN Now, our free video mobile app, and online on demand at c-SPAN.org.
Brad Fitch, author of the book, Citizens Handbook for Influencing Elected Officials.
Thank you for the conversation.
alex padilla
Thank you for having me.
greta brawner
That does it for today's Washington Journal.
Thank you all for watching.
We'll be back tomorrow morning, 7 a.m. Eastern Time.
enjoy your day.
unidentified
The U.S. Senate returns later today to vote on whether to begin work on legislation to require colleges and universities that receive federal funding to inform pregnant students about campus resources to help them carry a baby to term and to care for the baby.
The House passed a similar bill last week ahead of the March for Life annual rally against abortion.
Lawmakers are expected to spend most of the week working on the remaining six spending bills funding major parts of the federal government through September 30th, the end of the fiscal year, to avert a shutdown on Friday.
It includes funding for the Departments of Defense, Education, Health and Human Services, Homeland Security, and housing, as well as the labor, state, transportation, and treasury departments.
The U.S. House is out with members in a district work period not scheduled to return for votes until Monday.
Watch live coverage of the House on C-SPAN, the Senate on C-SPAN 2, and of course all of our congressional coverage is available on our free video app, C-SPANNOW, and at our website, c-span.org.
Today, President Trump is in Clive, Iowa to talk about the U.S. economy, affordability, and energy.
Watch live at 4 p.m. Eastern on C-SPAN, C-SPAN Now, our free mobile app, and online at c-SPAN.org.
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