| Speaker | Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
|
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Into the chamber, onto the Senate floor, inside the hearing room, up to the mic, and to the desk in the Oval Office. | |
| C-SPAN takes you where decisions are made. | ||
| No spin, no commentary, no agenda. | ||
| C-SPAN is your unfiltered connection to American democracy. | ||
| Advance the mission. | ||
| Donate today at c-SPAN.org forward slash donate. | ||
| Together, we keep democracy in view. | ||
| This is the Washington Journal for November 27, Thanksgiving Day. | ||
| At this hour, there is no update on the condition of two National Guard members recovering from what officials are calling a, quote, targeted shooting in Washington, D.C. on Wednesday. | ||
| The guard members and the alleged shooter, an Afghan national, are under medical care. | ||
| The FBI and the D.C. attorney's office are investigating the incident. | ||
| In reaction, President Trump ordered a pause in processing immigration requests from Afghan nationals, and Defense Secretary Pete Hegseff said that he is attempting to bring even more National Guard troops to Washington, D.C. | ||
| To start the program today, you're reacting to this shooting, and you can call in on the following lines. | ||
| Democrats, 202-748-8000. | ||
| Republicans, 202-748-8001. | ||
| And Independents, 202-748-8002. | ||
| If you want to text us your thoughts this morning, you can do that at 202-748-8003. | ||
| You can also post on our social media site. | ||
| That's facebook.com slash C-SPAN. | ||
| And on X, that's at C-SPANWJ. | ||
| This is ABC's news reporting of it, saying that authorities are set to hold a press conference later today after those two National Guard members from West Virginia remain in critical condition after a gunman opened fired on them in that apparent, quote, targeted shooting near the White House. | ||
| It broke out about 2.15 yesterday afternoon when the unidentified suspect rounded a corner near the Farragut West Metro station in Washington, D.C., raised his arm with the weapon and opened fire, according to Metropolitan Police Department executive assistant Jeffrey Carroll. | ||
| Other National Guard members quickly responded to the shooting and helped subdue the suspected shooter. | ||
| Again, law enforcement officials, including the FBI Director Kash Patel, scheduled to hold that 9 a.m. conference today. | ||
| It will also be attended by the U.S. Attorney's Office in Washington with U.S. Attorney Janine Pirro expected to be present. | ||
| We expect to take that live at 9 o'clock today. | ||
| So stay with C-SPAN to watch that and the latest information on this. | ||
| Again, you can call the lines in your reaction to the events of yesterday, 202748-8000 for Democrats, Republicans, 202748-8001, and Independents 202748-8002. | ||
| Texas, if you wish, at 202748-8003. | ||
| CBS follows up with a little bit more about this alleged shooter, an Afghan national named Ramanala Lockenwal, identified in that attack yesterday. | ||
| He was shot by another guard member taken into custody. | ||
| He's currently hospitalized. | ||
| He's 29 years old, entered the United States in 2021, according to multiple law enforcement sources. | ||
| The Secretary of Homeland Security, Christy Noam, said on X that the suspect was paroled into the U.S. on September the 8th of 2021 under a Biden-era program for Afghan nationals called Operation Alias's Welcome. | ||
| A deputy Department of Homeland Security official told CBS that he was paroled in the U.S. on humanitarian grounds back in 2021. | ||
| That was the main legal mechanism for the Biden administration used to welcome tens of thousands of Afghan evacuees. | ||
| And this story also adding that he applied for asylum with U.S. citizenship and immigration services in 2024. | ||
| His application was granted in 2025, according to the DHS official, but his request for a green card, which is tied to the asylum grant, is pending. | ||
| That also occurred yesterday, as well as the Defense Secretary, Pete Hegseth, in reaction. | ||
| He and the Dominican Republic asked questions about the shooting and added this when it comes to this idea of more National Guard coming to Washington, D.C. Here's the Defense Secretary from yesterday. | ||
|
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Two National Guardsmen have been shot in Washington, D.C., critically wounded. | |
| A shooter shot in a cowardly, dastardly act targeting the best of America. | ||
| Heroes willing to serve in Washington, D.C., serve for people they don't know and they've never met because they love their country and their capital and their community. | ||
| They were willing to do dangerous things others were not because they love their fellow Americans. | ||
| Someone decided to turn that into targeting National Guardsmen. | ||
|
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That will only stiffen our resolve. | |
| We will never back down. | ||
| We will secure our capital. | ||
| We will secure our cities. | ||
| In fact, this happened just steps away from the White House. | ||
| It will not stand. | ||
| And that's why President Trump has asked me, and I will ask the Secretary of the Army to the National Guard to add 500 additional troops, National Guardsmen, to Washington, D.C. | ||
| This will only stiffen our resolve to ensure that we make Washington, D.C. safe and beautiful. | ||
| The drop in crime has been historic. | ||
| The increase in safety and security has been historic. | ||
| But if criminals want to conduct things like this, violence against America's best, we will never back down. | ||
| President Trump will never back down. | ||
| That's why the American people elected him. | ||
|
unidentified
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America and our warriors, our National Guardsmen, are strong. | |
| To start the calls today, Doug in Ohio, independent line on the shooting in D.C. yesterday involving two National Guard members. | ||
| Doug, go ahead. | ||
|
unidentified
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Yeah. | |
| Well, I got a few things to say about it. | ||
| Number one, I'm thankful for my family this day because of everything good that we do. | ||
| I'm thankful that Joe Biden was the president for four years before Donald Trump took over. | ||
| Again, because he's the worst president ever. | ||
| And I'm blaming him for this shooting. | ||
| He's sending ice out for everybody that's a different color. | ||
| It seems like that's crazy. | ||
| And I feel bad for the National Guard. | ||
| But, you know, with this guy's preaching all this evil from the top, you reap what you sow. | ||
| I'm sorry if I feel that way, but it's the Republicans' fault for the whole thing that's happening right now in this country. | ||
| We never hated each other. | ||
| I love my country. | ||
| It's a country of independence and beauty. | ||
| And that's what I'm always thankful for, our independence that we have. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Go to Scott. | ||
| Scott in California, Democrats line. | ||
| You're next up. | ||
|
unidentified
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Pedro, again, your wife is dressing you well. | |
| To the events of yesterday, sir. | ||
|
unidentified
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Well, I wish I could buy that suit. | |
| I can't. | ||
| Let's go to Deb. | ||
| Deb in Virginia, Republican line. | ||
| Hello, you're on. | ||
|
unidentified
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Good morning. | |
| Good morning. | ||
|
unidentified
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Well, here we go again: the Democrat Party creating all this stuff, always blaming Donald Trump when most of it is their doing. | |
| Look what they're saying on TV now. | ||
| All kinds of crazy stuff. | ||
| And they're always blaming Donald Trump. | ||
| Well, what did you think about? | ||
| What did you think about the events itself yesterday, the shooting? | ||
|
unidentified
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It was awful. | |
| It's crazy. | ||
| The Democrat Party creates all this. | ||
| That's why it happened. | ||
| They're the reason why America is going down. | ||
| Every time they get into office, they always create some kind of hardship on the American people. | ||
| Number one was letting all the illegals in. | ||
| They all kind of doing it. | ||
| Thank you very much. | ||
| That's Deb in Virginia reaction from members of Congress. | ||
| Yesterday, the Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer posting on X saying, my heart breaks for the victims of this horrific shooting in Washington, D.C., near the White House. | ||
| I'm closely monitoring the situation and praying for the wounded National Guardsmen and their families. | ||
| I thank all the first responders for their quick action to capture it and goes on from there. | ||
| The Senate Majority Leader, John Thune, adding this on X yesterday, saying, as I monitor the situation that's developing near the White House, my thoughts and prayers are with the National Guardsmen who were attacked this afternoon. | ||
| I urge them to keep them in your prayers too. | ||
| This is from a viewer. | ||
| Let's hope this incident opens the eyes of liberal Americans, that Islam is still the greatest threat in American way of life. | ||
| And then this is from a bill, which we had mentioned earlier, that the shooter came to the U.S. in 2021, applied for that asylum in 2024. | ||
| And then again, the Trump administration granting it in April of 2025. | ||
| Rod is next. | ||
| Rod in Ohio. | ||
| Go ahead. | ||
| Democrats line. | ||
|
unidentified
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Good morning, Pedro. | |
| Yeah, the only thing I got to say is being Thanksgiving. | ||
| I'm just thankful that stuff like this don't happen more often. | ||
| I mean, with the country and the shape it's in now, so polarized. | ||
| And you got people who just wake up every day, nothing to do with their life, but go out and raise hell or try to kill somebody. | ||
| Unfortunately, that's a way of life halfway around the world. | ||
| And happened to be an Arab this time. | ||
| You know, it could be anybody. | ||
| But like I said, with the Arabs, I mean, they have that mindset. | ||
| They want to, you know, they're raised that way. | ||
| Kill, especially in the name of their God. | ||
| And I don't know whether God was involved in this. | ||
| Who knows? | ||
| But anyway, that's all I got to say. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| From Danny. | ||
| Danny in South Carolina, Republican line. | ||
| You're next up. | ||
|
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This is Trump fault. | |
| Trump followed this. | ||
| They shouldn't have been out there. | ||
| They don't bother to do that. | ||
| I'm exactly Republican. | ||
| Why is it right for Trump to ride in the game? | ||
| We're going to ask them that. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| CBS adding that the suspect that's in question was subdued at the scene, taken into custody, according to the Assistant Executive Chief of the DC Police, saying he isn't cooperating with authorities, according to law enforcement sources. | ||
| Some of those authorities spoke at the conference yesterday, including the D.C. Mayor Muriel Bowser and the Metropolitan Police Department's Jeffrey Carroll asking and answering questions about the shooter. | ||
| Here's some of that exchange from yesterday. | ||
| So, no, at this time, there was no indication that there was any other suspect, the one suspect that was involved in this incident. | ||
| They were shot during the interaction, and they were transported to the hospital for treatment. | ||
|
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What we know, Andrea, is that this is a targeted shooting. | |
| One individual who appeared to target these guardsmen. | ||
| That individual has been taken into custody. | ||
|
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Matt, can you give us more details on the condition of the two National Guard? | |
| Whether or not anyone else is injured. | ||
| And a quick question for the FBI director. | ||
| He said that we'll make sure we find the perpetrators for this act. | ||
| So just to clarify, the person believed to be responsible is in custody and there are no other suspects. | ||
| Sure, so I think I can start out again, Chief Carroll from MPD. | ||
| So both the individuals, the guard members, they are in critical condition at local hospital at this time being treated. | ||
| At this point, we have no other suspects. | ||
| We have reviewed video from the area. | ||
| It appears, like I said, to be a lone gunman that raised a firearm and ambushed these members of the National Guard. | ||
| And he was quickly taken into custody by other National Guard members and law enforcement members. | ||
| Again, those events taking place yesterday. | ||
| Another press conference scheduled for 9 o'clock today with the D.C. attorney and the FBI director. | ||
| You can see that right here on C-SPAN, our main channel. | ||
| And follow along on our app and our website, too. | ||
| Duke is in Maine, Independent Line. | ||
|
unidentified
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Hello. | |
| Yes, good morning, C-SPAN, and happy Thanksgiving to everybody. | ||
| There, it never ceases to amaze me. | ||
| The actual military that Donald Trump has so much disdain for and calls suckers and losers and just runs the military into the ground that he wants them there, though, for when he wants them and wants to bring in more troops and stuff into Washington, D.C. there today and stuff. | ||
| This is a horrible thing. | ||
| I go along with that first caller. | ||
| I put the blame right at his feet. | ||
| Had he not deployed our National Guard there, these boys wouldn't have been shot. | ||
| And then everything, what is he doing? | ||
| He's down in Mar-a-Lago down there, stuffing his face and having a good time and stuff. | ||
| And to me, I haven't seen him on TV saying anything about this. | ||
| So I think it's high time that he gets off his high horse and comes out there. | ||
| And that's, you know, we're telling what happened and stuff there. | ||
|
unidentified
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And stick up for our military for once in his life. | |
| Thank you. | ||
| The president posting on X yesterday when it comes to his responses, we'll get that to you shortly for his comments on the events of yesterday involving the shooting of that National Guard. | ||
| Here's a portion of those comments from yesterday. | ||
| I can report tonight that based on the best available information, the Department of Homeland Security is confident that the suspect in custody is a foreigner who entered our country from Afghanistan, a hellhole on earth. | ||
| He was flown in by the Biden administration in September 2021 on those infamous flights that everybody was talking about. | ||
| Nobody knew who was coming in. | ||
| Nobody knew anything about it. | ||
| His status was extended under legislation signed by President Biden, a disastrous president, the worst in the history of our country. | ||
| This attack underscores the single greatest national security threat facing our nation. | ||
| The last administration let in 20 million unknown and unvetted foreigners from all over the world, from places that you don't want to even know about. | ||
| No country can tolerate such a risk to our very survival. | ||
| An example is Minnesota, where hundreds of thousands of Somalians are ripping off our country and ripping apart that once great state. | ||
| Billions of dollars are lost, and gangs of Somalians come from a country that doesn't even have a government, no laws, no water, no military, no nothing, as their representatives in our country preach to us about our Constitution and how our country is no good. | ||
| We're not going to put up with these kind of assaults on law and order by people who shouldn't even be in our country. | ||
| We must now re-examine every single alien who has entered our country from Afghanistan under Biden, and we must take all necessary measures to ensure the removal of any alien from any country who does not belong here or add benefit to our country. | ||
| To that end, this is the post that U.S. Customs and Immigration Services put on X yesterday following that shooting saying effective immediately processing of all immigration requests relating to Afghan nationals is stopped indefinitely. | ||
| Pending further review of security and vetting protocols, the protection and safety of our homeland and of the American people remains our singular focus and mission. | ||
| Let's hear from Raymond. | ||
| Raymond is in California, Democrats line. | ||
| Good morning. | ||
|
unidentified
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Good morning. | |
| I want to wish everybody a happy Thanksgiving. | ||
| But my problem is: why are we using the National Guard? | ||
| Those two people shouldn't have even been there. | ||
| They should be home or at their jobs. | ||
|
unidentified
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The National Guard are citizen soldiers. | |
| The president and all the people that run the government are abusing the National Guard. | ||
| It started in L.A. and they should have never called the Guard out. | ||
| Local law enforcement can handle all the problems that we have. | ||
| Why aren't we going back to that? | ||
| They're professionals. | ||
| The National Guard aren't professionals. | ||
|
unidentified
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They shouldn't be there. | |
| And the president says this and that, and blah, blah, blah. | ||
| And I'm just kind of getting tired of it, but we're not taking care of our people. | ||
| Thank you for listening to me. | ||
| Bye-bye. | ||
| George in New York, Republican line. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hi. | |
| Hi, how are you? | ||
| Good morning. | ||
| Thanks for taking my call. | ||
| I can't believe the Democrats who are calling in on the line blame Donald Trump. | ||
| The gentleman who shot the two National Guardsmen, if it wasn't them, he would have found someone else to shoot and kill. | ||
| The issue, we elected Donald Trump to clean up the mess from the last four years. | ||
| You'll never find a Democrat to admit that. | ||
| Don't find anything to criticize. | ||
| He needs to send more military in to clean up the mess and leave ICE alone. | ||
| Donald Trump got in to clean up the mess from the last four years with all the millions of illegal immigrants who came in under the Biden administration. | ||
| It has to be cleaned up. | ||
| This is going to continue. | ||
| Leave Donald Trump alone. | ||
| Leave ICE alone. | ||
| Let them do their job and the country will move forward like it did years ago. | ||
| Thank you and have a happy Thanksgiving. | ||
| George there in New York. | ||
| Here's the headline from the New York Post after the events of yesterday with the main title Ambush. | ||
| The subheads, two National Guard troops wounded in, quote, targeted D.C. shooting. | ||
| And that following subhead, terror suspect is Afghan led in by Biden in 21, again, applying for asylum and receiving the asylum, but not a grain card as far as his current status. | ||
| This is from NBC Ford, the local NBC affiliate here, about that timeline of deployment in D.C. by the National Guard. | ||
| Starting off by saying it's after a former employee of the Department of Government Efficiency was attacked, it was the president issuing that executive order in August, declaring a crime emergency in the nation's capital. | ||
| Within a month, 2,300 National Guard troops from eight states in the district were patrolling the city under the command of the Secretary of the Army. | ||
| It says that it was later in August that Guard members were allowed to carry service weapons as they patrol D.C. All units with firearms were trained and operating under strict rules for use of force, according to the military, and saying that the Joint Task Force of the Military's rules allowed force to be used, quote, only as a last resort and solely in response to an imminent threat of death or serious bodily harm. | ||
| Also, this status that it was in late August that Guard members were instructed to pick up trash and work dozens of, quote, beautification and restoration projects in D.C. | ||
| And then this story adding: it was just last week that a federal judge ordered the Trump administration to end its deployment of National Guard troops in the nation's capital, saying it illegally intrudes on local officials' authority over policing the district. | ||
| However, that judge, U.S. District Judge Jacob, put the order on hold for 21 days to allow for an appeal. | ||
| That's just a brief timeline. | ||
| There's more there if you're interested from the NBC website. | ||
| Let's hear from California Independent Line. | ||
| This is Abdul. | ||
| Hello. | ||
|
unidentified
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Good morning. | |
| Let me tell you what happened. | ||
| These two National Guard got shot. | ||
| I feel sorry for them. | ||
| I hope they recover right away. | ||
| I was with the military. | ||
| We brought 200,000, close to 200,000 rapes, thief, terrorists in this country. | ||
| And Fox News and the Republican always say, oh, we left 5,000 citizens. | ||
| No, we don't left 5,000 citizens. | ||
| You brought 160,000, 180,000 terrorists. | ||
| Yes, 20,000 to 30,000 is good people. | ||
| The other day they don't have no education. | ||
| The rapists, their thief, they're for a woman, to the man, the young man, to old man, all of them. | ||
| Because I was with the military fighters inside Afghanistan to the field. | ||
| And guess what? | ||
| Nobody likes United States. | ||
| Trust me, not even Afghan governors. | ||
| Because all they like, the money, the dollars. | ||
| That's all. | ||
| When they come here, they don't know where the United States knows of which country, which continent is located. | ||
| They have no education. | ||
| I know all of them personally. | ||
| But what's going on? | ||
| Just wake up, send them back. | ||
| They're not a friend of us. | ||
| Especially if we try to get the background. | ||
| There will be a lot of attacks. | ||
| Reggie is next. | ||
| Reggie is next. | ||
| In New York, Republican line. | ||
|
unidentified
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Hello. | |
| Yeah. | ||
| Happy Thanksgiving to all the Republicans out there. | ||
| You know, as far as the Democrats, I hope y'all choke on your food, all your people's calling you other clowns. | ||
| And as far as the shooting, yeah, it was a horrible thing. | ||
| And I would prefer it would have been Democrats getting shot. | ||
| Okay, no, we're not going to, we'll stop you there. | ||
| Leanne, Leanne in Michigan, Democrats line. | ||
| Go ahead. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Thank you, Pedro, for cutting him off. | |
| Happy Thanksgiving. | ||
| That right there just shows you weak-minded people. | ||
| You have Trump talking about Biden. | ||
| Biden hasn't been the president for over a year now. | ||
| That's weak. | ||
| You bring up a country in Africa, talking about Somalia that has nothing to do with these two men who almost lost their lives and someone who just, for some reason, call themselves shoot. | ||
| That has nothing to do with Democrat or Republican. | ||
| That's strictly someone that has made something happen to them where they felt like they had to go out and shoot. | ||
| And I'm tired of people blaming a political party because that's what it is. | ||
| I wish people would go back and learn history. | ||
| Political parties versus people doing bad things. | ||
| And they keep bringing up Biden, who hasn't been the president, is just weak. | ||
| So please stop blaming political parties that goes Republicans and Democrats and stop saying that this president is great when all he's doing is saying weak things and he's feeding into the weak-minded people and that's what's going on. | ||
| And that's just what it is. | ||
| And thank you for letting me call. | ||
| On our line for Republicans from Michigan, Michael, you're next up. | ||
|
unidentified
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Yeah, Pedro, you're sitting there. | |
| Let's hear what you have to say about this. | ||
| Can you do that for us? | ||
| Let's hear what you have to say. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Tom is next in Ohio. | ||
| Democrats line. | ||
|
unidentified
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Hi. | |
| Morning, Pedro. | ||
| Happy Thanksgiving to everybody. | ||
| I'm just an old dumb 90-year-old, but it's just a shame that our world is getting to what it is. | ||
| I'm so thankful that my baby granddaughter is getting out of the Navy. | ||
| She was a nuclear engineer. | ||
| And I am so thankful that she did because with Psycho Don sitting up there, Lord only knows what will happen. | ||
| Well, as far as the shooting itself yesterday, what do you think about it? | ||
|
unidentified
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It's politicians. | |
| And he's going to bring all these people in from South Africa. | ||
| That's for him. | ||
| That ain't for the country. | ||
| That's for him to use at his resort. | ||
| Well, call her to the caller specifically to the events of yesterday. | ||
| What did you think about those? | ||
|
unidentified
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Thank you very much, Pedro. | |
| Okay, that's Tom in Ohio. | ||
| Again, 9 o'clock is when the D.C. attorney Janine Pirow and the FBI director Kash Patel expected to update reporters on the latest from the shooting yesterday. | ||
| It was yesterday also that the FBI director appeared before cameras after the incident. | ||
| Here's a portion of that. | ||
| We're here to brief you on the tragic events that happened today at approximately 2.15 local time in Washington, D.C., where two of our brave members of the National Guard and the Department of War were brazenly attacked in a horrendous act of violence. | ||
| They were shot. | ||
| They're in critical condition. | ||
| As you can see behind me, we have assembled the full force of both the federal and state and local law enforcement agencies to bring bear all of our resources to make sure we find the perpetrators responsible for this heinous act. | ||
| And make no mistake, they will be brought to justice. | ||
| Since this is an assault on a federal law enforcement officer, this will be treated at the federal level as an assault on a federal law enforcement officer. | ||
| The FBI will lead out on that mission with our interagency partners to include the Department of Homeland Security, Secret Service, ATF, DEA. | ||
| And we're thankful for the mayor's assistance in this matter. | ||
| The Metropolitan Police Department and their skills in investigating homicides and gun shootings in this city is exceptional. | ||
| We will work together collaboratively because this is a matter of national security, because it's a matter of pride. | ||
| President Trump has been informed. | ||
| We've been in contact with the White House. | ||
| We will shortchange the American public with no resources to make sure we find and safeguard our nation's capital right here in Washington, D.C. and bring anyone responsible for this heinous act of violence to justice. | ||
| I would lastly like to add to the American public and the world, please send your prayers to those brave warriors who are in critical condition and their families. | ||
| They are here serving our country. | ||
| They are here protecting everyday Americans and citizens around the world in our nation's capital. | ||
| They are the heroes of this day, and we must remember them on this day and every day and their families and the sacrifice they have made. | ||
| Kash Patel from yesterday, you'll hear from him around 9 o'clock. | ||
| NBC updating when it comes to the suspected shooter saying that he arrived in the United States in September of 2021, according to a relative, having served in the Afghan Army for 10 years alongside U.S. Special Forces troops, Lockenwall was stationed at a base in Kandahar for part of that time. | ||
| He served in the Army, according to the relative. | ||
| It also adds that the relative who spoke with NBC said, served with Lockenwall supporting U.S. troops, saying we were the ones targeted by the Taliban in Afghanistan. | ||
| Cindy is next up in New York. | ||
| Democrats line hi. | ||
| Cindy in New York and Liverpool. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hello. | |
| One more time for Cindy. | ||
| Okay, we'll go to Deb. | ||
| Deb in Virginia, Independent Line. | ||
|
unidentified
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Hello. | |
| Hello. | ||
| I have friends who were deployed National Guard in D.C., and I also have friends who were afraid to leave their homes and go to the store because of how the National Guard's members have been in the city. | ||
| And because we've deployed troops on our toilet, it's like it's good people, right? | ||
| Like it's like teachers. | ||
| It's like just people who like, I don't know, you know, and I just think that I don't feel like everyone remembers how we withdrew from Afghanistan and like how much that like, you know, I don't know, affected people. | ||
| It's, it's. | ||
| And how does that relate to yesterday's event? | ||
|
unidentified
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The like just, I think that one thing that we really have here is like a really, really sad moment. | |
| And I think it's just these escalating tensions. | ||
| And I think we have to be really, really careful how we, I mean, I think it's Thanksgiving and I think it's murder. | ||
| And it's just, it's, you know, there is a, whether it's like domestic violence or, you know, these escalating incidents, like we just really have to be careful about how we care for each other and like how we use force. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Abraham in Virginia, Republican line. | ||
| You're next up. | ||
| Good morning. | ||
|
unidentified
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Yes, good morning. | |
| To all those Democrats who don't understand what the National Guard do, they're trained to do exactly what they're doing there in riot control and things of that nature. | ||
| I've been in National Guard for over 15 years. | ||
| And I wish President Trump would just concentrate on the people who love America. | ||
| And these people who don't love America, like these cities like Baltimore, Chicago, Detroit, New York, where they don't want their police force to handle crime. | ||
| Just leave them alone. | ||
| Let them do what they're going to do. | ||
| Let them eat each other up and just concentrate on the people who think that this is the greatest country in the world and do things for us. | ||
| And the people who hate this country, they can leave, find you a country that you like, and leave this country to the people and the patriots, the real patriots who love this country. | ||
| I wish Trump would just say that. | ||
| Okay? | ||
| Thank you very much. | ||
| Next up is Judith in Michigan, Independent Line. | ||
|
unidentified
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Hi. | |
| Hi. | ||
| I just want to let you know, years ago, I watched with Obama and then all the skid loads of money he gave to Iran. | ||
| So then I decided I don't want to be a Democrat no more. | ||
| I want to be independent and who I decide who's best for the country. | ||
| I voted for Donald Trump and I'll tell you why. | ||
| Under Biden, I know who went down to the border under Biden, the National Guard, who went out every night to say how many were coming over. | ||
| Did they check the people out? | ||
| They were put on buses and airplanes, and these people are not half checked out. | ||
| And who's coming out? | ||
| So how does all that relate to yesterday, please? | ||
|
unidentified
|
So then you ever watch the angel mobs whose ones have been killed here by illegals who were not checked out? | |
| You have people waiting who did it the right way, who filled out their paperwork. | ||
| Well, caller, this individual in question had received asylum, apparently, after he came to the United States. | ||
| So how does that relate to yesterday, please? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yesterday, well, 21. | |
| Who was the president then? | ||
| This is what I'm saying. | ||
| Under Biden, too many people were not getting checked out before they come in. | ||
| I want to welcome you with welcome arms. | ||
| We have people in their countries who did it, who'd been still waiting and had been background checked and everything. | ||
| But these people came here over the border, boom. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Let's go to California Democrats line. | ||
| Hello, you're next up. | ||
| This is Dan. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh, hi. | |
| So actually, I am a Democrat. | ||
| I'm a liberal, but I actually do hear and understand the last lady who called in, mainly Republicans and conservatives who talked about national security. | ||
| And I think this is where the Democrats fail. | ||
| I think this is why the Democrats hemorrhaged a ton of voters and lost the last election. | ||
| And in the case of this shooting, we don't know the full information, but if this guy does turn out to be an Islamist, it is bad. | ||
| And I'll just really quickly go through my life and evolution. | ||
| I was born and raised in a conservative Republican family, but the reason I left the party was because the party did an unholy alliance with the Christian right. | ||
| And unfortunately, I've seen what's happened with the left and the Democrat Party make an unholy alliance with Islamism. | ||
| I saw it happen with the women's march being hijacked with anti-Semitism. | ||
| And I've seen it happen since the October 7th atrocities and how the far left has been completely anti-Semitic and allying themselves with Hamas and Hezbollah and Iran. | ||
| And this is a major albatross on the left. | ||
| And now we just found out that the mayor-elect in New York City, Zorhan Mamdani, go back to the women's march, is now having Tamika Mallory be one of his aides. | ||
| Okay, okay, we've gone too far from the original topic, so let me finish you off there. | ||
| And for those of you who called, you'll have a chance to call in later on in the program during the course of the program. | ||
| Two guests will join us throughout the day morning to talk only about the events of yesterday, but also the larger idea of civility, especially when it comes to political disagreements. | ||
| Later on in the program, you'll hear from Alexander Hefner. | ||
| He's the host of PBS's The Open Mind. | ||
| He'll join us what he's learned in talking to people about civility and politics. | ||
| And then the next guest we have wrote a book on the topic, The Soul of Civility, Timeless Principles to Hill Society and Ourselves, Lexi Hudson, will join us next when Washington Journal continues. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Today, starting at 10 a.m. Eastern, C-SPAN presents a day-long America 250 Marathon, all part of our more than year-long coverage of historic moments that explore the American story. | |
| At 11 a.m., we'll feature Boston's Freedom Trail through a guided tour featuring the site of the Boston Massacre, Old Statehouse, Fanyu Hall, and Old North Church. | ||
| Give me liberty or give me death. | ||
| At 2.30 p.m. Eastern, Patrick Henry's Give Me Liberty or Give Me Death speech on the 250th anniversary and in its original location, St. John's Church in Richmond. | ||
| At 6.05 p.m., the U.S. Navy 250th anniversary Victory at Sea concert in Philadelphia with a musical performance by Patty LaBelle. | ||
| Also at 8 p.m., the 1775 Battle of Bunker Hill, where more than 1,000 reenactors commemorate one of the earliest and most consequential Revolutionary War battles. | ||
| And at 9.30 p.m., a celebration of the U.S. Army's 250th anniversary, featuring a parade through Washington, D.C., an enlistment ceremony, parachute demonstration, and fireworks. | ||
| Watch the America 250 Thanksgiving all-day marathon today on C-SPAN. | ||
| Also, head over to C-SPAN.org to get the full schedule. | ||
| C-SPAN is as unbiased as you can get. | ||
| You are so fair. | ||
| I don't know how anybody can say otherwise. | ||
| You guys do the most important work for everyone in this country. | ||
| I love C-SPAN because I get to hear all the voices. | ||
| You bring these divergent viewpoints and you present both sides of an issue and you allow people to make up their own minds. | ||
| I absolutely love C-SPAN. | ||
| I love to hear both sides. | ||
| I've watched C-SPAN every morning and it is unbiased. | ||
| And you bring in factual information for the callers to understand where they are in their comments. | ||
| This is probably the only place that we can hear honest opinion of Americans across the country. | ||
| You guys at C-SPAN are doing such a wonderful job of allowing free exchange of ideas without a lot of interruption. | ||
| Thank you, C-SPAN, for being a light in the dark. | ||
| Washington Journal continues. | ||
| Throughout the course of the morning, a discussion when it comes to civility in American politics. | ||
| Our first guest joining us on that discussion, Alexandra Hudson, goes by Lexi Hudson. | ||
| She's the author of The Soul of Civility, Timeless Principles to Heal Society and Ourselves. | ||
| Lexi Hudson, welcome to the program. | ||
| Happy Thanksgiving Day. | ||
| Pedro, happy Thanksgiving. | ||
| Thrilled to be with you again. | ||
| I want to start, though, by asking about the events like we saw yesterday in Washington, D.C., the shooting of these National Guard members. | ||
| What it does overall when it comes to this idea of where we are as a country when unrest and things like this happen. | ||
| We don't know a lot of the details, sure, but in the larger context of civility and the things you write about, what are your thoughts on that? | ||
| We live in a crisis of dehumanization right now, where we insufficiently appreciate the profound gift of being human in ourselves and others. | ||
| And we see that in this current moment defined by political violence across the political spectrum. | ||
| It was the Charlie Crick assassination in September. | ||
| It was the murder of the Democratic senator and her husband in their home this past summer. | ||
| I mean, it's just that, and the list goes on. | ||
| There are so many instances of it. | ||
| And again, we don't know a lot about the details of the most recent act of political violence in Washington, D.C. | ||
| But it's time to curb this crisis of dehumanization by recovering an appreciation of our shared personhood, our shared human dignity, our shared humanity. | ||
| That's what civility is about. | ||
| Our shared common dignity is the moral and intellectual foundation for our obligation to treat others with civility. | ||
| Civility is the bare minimum of respect that we owe and owe to others just by virtue of our shared moral status. | ||
| Full stop, no qualifications. | ||
| No, well, this person is affiliated with this party or this person did that. | ||
| We each have that basic right and obligation to be treated as human beings first. | ||
| And we've lost sight of that. | ||
| And it's time to do something about it. | ||
| You mentioned the assassination of Charlie Kirk. | ||
| You mentioned the deaths of those Democratic legislators. | ||
| Do you think we've, as a nation, have learned something along since that time in recent memory? | ||
| Do you think we've made some strides towards improving civility in your mind? | ||
| I think so. | ||
| And I'll tell you why I feel hopeful. | ||
| I mean, it's always tragic when we have to hit rock bottom in more ways than one in order for people to recognize that we have to do something about this. | ||
| So, for example, I've been contacted since my book came out two years ago increasingly by leaders across the country, across politics, across vocation, across geography of people saying, I loved your book. | ||
| Now what? | ||
| How do I embody it? | ||
| And just this week, I was working with a small bipartisan group of state legislators in Texas. | ||
| And I don't know how much you know about Texas state politics. | ||
| I've learned a lot about it in recent weeks and months when I've been working with these legislators. | ||
| It's very toxic. | ||
| It's very vicious right now. | ||
| And these people have come to me and said, we want to lead a book study around your book in the legislature, a bipartisan book study, and just to have your book be a canvas, a catalyst for having a conversation about personhood and human dignity and common respect amongst our colleagues. | ||
| And that is just one of many examples that are causing me such hope. | ||
| I'm working with local mayors, city council persons. | ||
| We just gathered over 100 of these civic leaders in Carmel, Indiana. | ||
| Carmel is one of these communities that reached out to me and said, we love your book. | ||
| What do we do now? | ||
| How do we embody it? | ||
| And in September, 100 of us gathered and was such a hope-filled endeavor because it was people who gathered around these core ideas of my book that civility is not politeness. | ||
| Agreement is not the goal. | ||
| But rehumanizing one another across deep difference is the goal. | ||
| People are recognizing the problem and they're doing something about it. | ||
| And that gives me such hope. | ||
| Do you think that those who live in the political world or those who heavily follow politics, to what degree is it harder for them to reach those ideals that you talk about? | ||
| I think the trend that we see is that in politics, you have to hit a personal rock bottom before you recognize the costs of human dignity. | ||
| I mean, I had one of my champions in the Texas state legislature send me that MSNBC report about Marjorie Taylor Green when she talked about, she said, I'm sorry. | ||
| I'm sorry for the way that I contributed to the vitriolic tenor of our public discourse. | ||
| And it took her kind of being publicly malained and dragged through the mud for her to recognize, you know what, there are costs to how I treat, how we treat other people. | ||
| And I actually saw the same thing when I served in federal government. | ||
| I was in Washington, D.C. | ||
| I was at the U.S. Department of Education 2017, 2018. | ||
| I saw a very, very, and this is part of the story of why I wrote my book, my experience in government was a microcosm of our deep divisions. | ||
| And I didn't feel like I was being part of the solution and I wanted to be. | ||
| And I remember seeing really, you know, confident world leaders come into the administration, come in and lead, and then they would get totally chewed up and spit out by their principal, by the public, and leave kind of broken shells of themselves. | ||
| And I remember Rex Tillerson, for example, when he left the State Department, his parting words to the State Department when he left were, please, please be kind. | ||
| Just be kind. | ||
| And that was like all he could say. | ||
| And it's like, I was there. | ||
| I was broken myself by federal government. | ||
| That was what galvanized me again to write my book, The Soul of Civility. | ||
| And so I understand when you have just been utterly eviscerated and have nothing left, all you want is just like you'll grasp onto any remnant of human goodness and human kindness. | ||
| And it's too bad that it takes hitting that to get there, but it's a good sign that more and more people are saying, you know what, maybe we should reconsider the consequences of what we do and say. | ||
| This is not cost-free. | ||
| There are costs to us, personally, costs to society, costs to others. | ||
| And we have a responsibility to act now. | ||
| Lexi Hudson is our guest. | ||
| And if you want to ask her questions, 202-748-8000. | ||
| For Democrats, 202-748-8000. | ||
| One for Republicans and Independents. | ||
| 202-748-8002. | ||
| You can text your questions or comments at 202-748-8003. | ||
| Ms. Hudson, you on this day especially, I suppose as people gather around tables, this idea of politics might come up. | ||
| There might be disagreements. | ||
| But you said in your first point that doesn't necessarily mean that you have to agree on these things. | ||
| Can you elaborate on that? | ||
| It's true. | ||
| Agreement is not the goal. | ||
| In fact, democracy and in democracy, disagreement is a feature, not a bug. | ||
| And I think it's kind of insulting when some of these very well-intentioned people, leaders, or groups try and say, you know, we don't actually disagree as much as we think. | ||
| If we just, you know, we see eye to eye more than we think, we just have to, you know, sweep our differences under the rug and find common ground. | ||
| And my message is actually, no, we are going to fundamentally disagree. | ||
| Again, that is a feature, not a bug of democracy. | ||
| The question is: how do we disagree in a way that actually strengthens our relationships and promotes, is a catalyst for enlightenment, progress, and again, strengthening these bonds? | ||
| Because how we're disagreeing now is toxic. | ||
| It's scorched earth. | ||
| It's like us disagreeing, Pedro, you and I means you are the enemy, you know, and I will do anything to defeat you. | ||
| And that is the death knell of democracy, the death knell of friendship and human flourishing. | ||
| And so my message is that disagreement doesn't have to be this way. | ||
| How do we channel disagreement by keeping the dignity of the other front and center, keeping the goal of the relationship and preserving it front and center, that we can actually catalyze, use disagreement to be this catalyst for progress, for growth, and for strengthening not just our relationships, but democracy. | ||
| Calls lined up for you. | ||
| This is Chris. | ||
| Chris joins us from Maine, Democrats Line. | ||
| You're on with Lexi Hudson. | ||
| The book is called The Soul of Civility: Timeless Principles to Heal Society and Ourselves. | ||
| Chris, good morning. | ||
| You're first up. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| My question is going to be: how can we possibly solve the problem of civility in this country when 45% of the country, the right-wing, basically hold themselves up in a single little box of listening to daily hatred against the other half of the country? | ||
| And so the history of this sort of thing comes from the far right-wing radio of Rush Limbaugh that I used to listen to in the 80s and 90s and Glenn Beck. | ||
| And then it sort of filtered into Newt Gingrich. | ||
| And then Fox News came on the scene with its commentators. | ||
| And if you listen to Fox News any evening of the week, if you listen to right-wing radio any day of the week, you're going to hear them say repeatedly over and over and over again, how much me, a veteran, my dad, a veteran, how much we hate America. | ||
| And it's gotten to the very top with the Speaker of the House, who, respecting the No Kings rally, these are his words. | ||
| He said, Democrats hate America. | ||
| They hate capitalism. | ||
| They hate our free enterprise system. | ||
| They hate our principles. | ||
| They hate the ideas we come into work every day to fight for. | ||
| They hate the idea of the rule of law. | ||
| They fight against it. | ||
| They're opposed to law enforcement. | ||
| They hate the military. | ||
| That's the Speaker of the House. | ||
| And he's simply repeating what Fox News says every single day and what we hear on C-SPAN every single morning. | ||
| It doesn't matter that I wore the uniform. | ||
| It doesn't matter that my dad did 200 missions over Vietnam for our country. | ||
| No, we hate America. | ||
| And 45% of the country believe that. | ||
| And even one of the callers earlier today said that when they said the Democrats are pro-Hamas. | ||
| So how do we get around anti-civility when half the country believes this disgusting belief that I hate America? | ||
| Gotcha. | ||
| Chris, thank you. | ||
| Chris, happy Thanksgiving. | ||
| Thank you for taking the time to call in and share your concern, which many people feel. | ||
| I have been in 135 cities in five countries on book tour the last two years with my three small children under five. | ||
| And I get this question almost every time. | ||
| In fact, just last week, I was talking to a friend and they said, they said to me, Lexi, like your work doesn't matter as long as the person in the White House stays in the White House. | ||
| And I hear this all the time. | ||
| You know, people want to blame. | ||
| How do I fix this person? | ||
| And I mean, first of all, Chris, feel free to gift copies of my book, The Soul of Civility, to people in your life who you think need it this year. | ||
| I joke that it's a great gift for your best friend or your worst enemy. | ||
| And sometimes that's both the same person these days. | ||
| But the point is, my message, my encouragement to you, Chris, is to not point fingers and blame, but to look inward and say, what can I do right now to be a part of this solution to incivility? | ||
| And frankly, and division, echo chambers, and frankly, loneliness. | ||
| I think loneliness is at the root cause of this crisis of incivility, because frankly, it's easy to say, let's just all talk nicely together. | ||
| Let's all be kinder to each other. | ||
|
unidentified
|
But it's a cliche that's also true, that hurt people hurt people. | |
| And a lot of these people who are shouting from the rooftops vicious, hate-filled, dehumanizing things, they are broken. | ||
| And what could it mean to show kindness to these people? | ||
| And I'll tell you a story there. | ||
| There once, you know, this that happened thousands of years ago. | ||
| There was a very impoverished person named Eumaeus. | ||
| And he had very little in the way of means and possessions in life. | ||
| But one day, he encountered someone who seemed to have even less than he did. | ||
| And an even more impoverished beggar showed up at his doorstep, you know, ragged, war-torn, and hungry. | ||
| And Eumaeus didn't ask any questions. | ||
| He said, welcome, stranger. | ||
| Come into my home. | ||
| Let me feed you. | ||
| Let me bathe you. | ||
| Let me give you some clothes, a place to rest. | ||
| And only after all of his basic needs had been met, Eumaeus said to the stranger, now tell me your story. | ||
| And Eumaeus didn't know that this person who seemed to have way less materially than he did was his long lost king and master and best friend, Odysseus, who had been lost at sea for 10 years after the Peloponnesian War. | ||
| I love this story from Homer's Odyssey. | ||
| This is quintessential hospitality at its finest. | ||
| In ancient Greek, this concept of zinea was kindness to the stranger, kindness to the person that you don't know. | ||
| And this might sound disconnected from your question, but I don't think it is because what does it mean to show hospitality to the stranger at our Thanksgiving dinner table today and throughout this weekend? | ||
| We're busy. | ||
| We are overloaded. | ||
| People respond way better to kindness and to bids of invitation than we realize. | ||
| And how can we use our tables, our hearths, our homes, our lives to be tools of healing and warmth and friendship and hospitality that can set the foundation for the conversations that you want to be having with people? | ||
| And so, Chris, thank you for caring. | ||
| Happy Thanksgiving. | ||
| And I encourage you to think, what is your role in having in being part of the solution? | ||
| And I think it starts with extending friendship and hospitality this weekend, even at our Thanksgiving tables. | ||
| In Oklahoma on our line for independence, this is Guy. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hello. | |
| Hey, good morning, Pedro. | ||
| Good morning, Alexandria. | ||
| Hey, did either of you happen to watch the show with Mimi and Henry Olson about four or five weeks ago when he was talking about what we're experiencing today and the Trump derangement syndrome? | ||
| No, feel free to summarize it. | ||
| I didn't see that. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay, well, Henry Olson, he was on the show with Mimi talking about the corrupt media, how they've demonized, dehumanized President Trump for 10 years, basically since he came down the golden escalator. | |
| And anyway, Mimi, in the last month, she's asked two people, Henry and also Representative Mike Flood, to define the TDS, the Trump derangement syndrome. | ||
|
unidentified
|
And I'd like to do that for you this morning. | |
| You mentioned dehumanization. | ||
| There's a program that was implemented back in the 60s from the CIA, and it's called the five Ds. | ||
| They start off with their opponent. | ||
| Do they want to demonize? | ||
| When you demonize somebody, that takes away any credibility and you lose any trust in them. | ||
| Like Trump, he's a Russian spy, KGB, he stole the election. | ||
| So that wipes out their trust and credibility. | ||
| The second thing you mentioned, Alexandria, was dehumanizing somebody. | ||
| As an example, Nikolai said in the film, you're a bottle cap or a piece of lint that needs to be discarded. | ||
| It takes away any emotion or human feeling that you have towards that person. | ||
| So you can assassinate somebody and justify it or not feel it's a bad thing. | ||
| So, Guy, for matters of time, I don't think we're going to be able to get through all the points of what's the question for our guests. | ||
|
unidentified
|
The third D is you divide, which the country is completely defied. | |
| And then the fourth D is you deflect. | ||
| Everything's Trump's fault. | ||
| And the fifth D is the outcome, the disintegrative outcome that we're seeing, the assassinations and so on. | ||
| Okay, that's Guy there in Oklahoma. | ||
| There's his summary. | ||
| What do you take away from that, Lexi Hudson? | ||
| Oh, it's a fascinating thing. | ||
| I hadn't heard about the five Ds, the CIA protocol that our questioner was just referring to. | ||
| But it is true that our crisis of division is a national security crisis. | ||
| I mean, I have Civic Renaissance is my newsletter intellectual community dedicated to beauty, goodness, and truth. | ||
| I invite everyone listening to please join us over there if you want to learn more about how we can each be a part of the solution. | ||
| And I had this small cohort of Civic Renaissance ambassadors, people who are trying to embody these ideas in their community and be agents of social change. | ||
| And one of them is a national security expert, and he is passionate. | ||
| This is Rich in Evansville, Indiana. | ||
| He is passionate about civility because he deals, he's a former hostage negotiator. | ||
| He's a security consultant now who sells, unfortunately, security systems, multimillion dollar security systems for schools because of the threats that we face every day, sending our kids to schools. | ||
| We don't know what threats our children might face in these institutions. | ||
| And what he says is that the work he does day to day, it wouldn't be necessary if we all had an appreciation of the personhood and dignity of ourselves and others. | ||
| It's a downstream intervention. | ||
| He sees civility as an upstream intervention. | ||
| So he's passionate about bringing civility to his community and nationally as well. | ||
| And I mean, the government is working now. | ||
| It's open and it's operating temporarily. | ||
| But I was reflecting a lot about the crisis of division and civic friendship in Congress after we hit the longest government shutdown in America's history. | ||
| And I was reflecting on back in 1995, 1996, where we had two shutdowns in one year, a similar time of hyper-partisanship and gridlock, where our government wasn't working and people wanted to do something about it. | ||
| They said, you know, an unprecedented amount of political capital and philanthropic capital was harnessed to get Congress out of Washington and recover civic friendship. | ||
| There was a civility retreat in Hershey, Pennsylvania. | ||
| Half the time, congresspersons talked about institutional barriers to civility. | ||
| And the second half, they free played kids and family members and congresspersons, you know, threw football and grilled out together. | ||
| And everyone came back from Hershey after four days there and said, this was amazing. | ||
| We need to do this again. | ||
| You know, Newt Gingrich was speaker of the House at the time and he said, let's have a civility retreat every year. | ||
| And they should have done that because what happened was just a few months after this amazing intervention that got everyone friendly and talking and these steely relationships were thawed, the Monica Lewinsky scandal broke and it was scorched earth politics once again. | ||
| And what this tells me is, A, civic trust is what makes our democracy work. | ||
| It has been strained. | ||
| It has been rebuilt. | ||
| It's strained now. | ||
| It can be rebuilt through an intervention that I, you know, let's do another civility retreat. | ||
| I think, I think, I think we're overdue for one, but the reality is a one-off intervention is not enough. | ||
| This thing called civic friendship that makes our democracy work and allows our representatives to serve the people that elected them, it requires day in, day-out commitment to this joint project of living well with others. | ||
| And this is a national security threat that thank you. | ||
| Thank you, Guy, for your question and your insightful reflections, rather. | ||
| It's time to recover common dignity and civic friendship at the local level and in Congress. | ||
| So to that point, we have a viewer off of X, David Roth, ask about what do you do about our dear leader who thrives on incivility and encourages it? | ||
| Do we respond with grace? | ||
| And I'll follow up with that saying people who sit like in the president's chair, do they have that much influence over how, you know, day-to-day people interact with each other? | ||
| It's, you know, it's unquestionable that the tenor of how our leaders talk and talk to each other, talk to their supporters, talk to their dissenters, that matters without question. | ||
| But it's not enough to just point fingers and blame and say, if that person or that thing doesn't change, then it's hopeless. | ||
| And I'm not going to do anything until that person changed. | ||
| We can't do that. | ||
| I'm currently working on the children's book, the kind of classroom read aloud and family read aloud version of my book, The Soul of Civility. | ||
| And one of my heroes of civility that I talk about in my book and in the children's book, he's this unsung hero of moderation. | ||
| And he's the hero we need in these polarizing days that we live in now, Erasmus of Rotterdam. | ||
| No one's heard of him today because he didn't pick a side. | ||
| He was a Catholic, but he criticized the Catholic Church for abuses of power during the Protestant Reformation. | ||
| In fact, he was an intellectual predecessor of the Protestant Reformation and inspired this young monk called Martin Luther. | ||
| And he and Luther were friends. | ||
| And he wasn't a Protestant, so Protestants don't claim him today. | ||
| He never left the Catholic Church. | ||
| He instead wanted to promote reform within the institution through education and over time. | ||
| But anyway, so no one remembers him today, but he was an intellectual superstar during the European Renaissance. | ||
| And he wrote this amazing book on manners for children. | ||
| And he has, it's called A Handbook for Manners on Young Children. | ||
| And it's one of these books that I explore. | ||
| And it was, again, it was translated into every European language. | ||
| It never went out of print for like several centuries. | ||
| And this is again at the dawn of the printing press where, you know, it was just a runaway bestseller. | ||
| There are many insights Erasmus has from this book that I love, but my favorite one is what he calls the wellspring of all civility, where he says, readily ignore the faults of others and avoid falling short yourself. | ||
| And I love that. | ||
| It's such an antidote to what our world wants to tell us to do. | ||
| And what the world wants to tell us to do is point fingers and blame, which is so disempowering, frankly. | ||
| And Erasmus' reminder is don't point fingers and blame. | ||
| Look inward first. | ||
| Forgive others. | ||
| Focus on what you can do. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Avoid falling short yourself. | |
| This is Jerry. | ||
| Jerry joins us from New Jersey on this Thanksgiving Day. | ||
| Democrats line, you're on with Lexi Hudson. | ||
| Good morning. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning, Alexa. | |
| I have a comment, and then I got a question for you. | ||
| You know, I'm going to tell you something. | ||
| I watch C-SPAN every morning, every morning, faithfully. | ||
| And the callers that call in are so full of hate. | ||
| I've never seen anything like it, okay? | ||
| Now, one of the reasons I believe this is happening is you got the media, and I say this about all stations: the lies, the lies that come across the media. | ||
| The short, you know, like I heard, what's his name, your host there. | ||
| He was talking about the illegal that was here, and he said, oh, he came in on a visa. | ||
| Well, it expired in September. | ||
| So the man was here illegally, but they don't tell you the facts. | ||
| And the problem is that when you don't get the facts, you get the hatred. | ||
| It's festered. | ||
| You got people that call in about Trump, I mean, literally want to see him go, either get assassinated, go. | ||
| You have Republicans. | ||
| You got Charlie Kirk that was killed. | ||
| There were people celebrating it, celebrating it. | ||
| And I blame the media for that. | ||
| C-SPAN is the worst. | ||
| It generates the hatred every day, every day. | ||
| And they don't stop it. | ||
| They let the callers just keep going on and going on. | ||
| And I'm sitting here in my sunroom and I'm thinking I'd like to shoot these people. | ||
| Okay, okay. | ||
| I'm going to stop you there after we let you go on and go on, caller, just so you know. | ||
| But Ms. Hudson, if you wanted to respond. | ||
| Thanks, Pedro. | ||
| So respectfully, I'd like to disagree with the caller. | ||
| This is what, Pedro, my, I don't know, third or fourth, fifth time on C-SPAN. | ||
| And I love the callers. | ||
| I love hearing what people have to say. | ||
| I've always been treated with respect by callers and with, and of course, from hosts in the C-SPAN team. | ||
| So respectfully, I'd like to disagree. | ||
| And frankly, I want to praise C-SPAN for having this open forum to have these open and honest dialogues. | ||
| This is a core argument I make in my book, The Soul of Civility, that there is an essential distinction between civility and politeness. | ||
| I learned this firsthand when I was in government in DC 2017, 2018, that politeness is technique. | ||
| It's external stuff. | ||
| It's what we do. | ||
| It's what we say. | ||
| And it's not, and focusing on what we do and say, or what we don't do and don't say, is not enough to alleviate our deep differences and help us navigate our deep differences. | ||
| So we have to focus on civility, which is a disposition of the heart, a way of seeing others as our moral equals, worthy of respect. | ||
| And sometimes actually respecting, actually loving someone requires telling a hard truth, engaging in robust debate, even saying something that someone doesn't want to hear, risking offending them, hurting their feelings. | ||
| That's actually a way to love and respect people. | ||
| Today, people are too often content with politeness, you know, sweeping difference under the rug, polishing over difference, which is what the etymology, the root of our word politeness, comes from the Latin word polyere, which means to smoother polish, you know, sweep these differences under the rug. | ||
| Let's not have these uncomfortable conversations. | ||
| Let's save them for another time. | ||
| Civility, by contrast, says, no, I'm going to respect you enough to have this open and honest conversation. | ||
| I'm going to respect myself enough to speak up when I have something to say. | ||
| But I'm going to do so in a way that respects your personhood, that respects your dignity. | ||
| I'm not going to let this devolve into dehumanization. | ||
| I'm not going to let this devolve into threats of political violence or actual political violence. | ||
| I am going to have this conversation, this open and honest debate in a way that respects you enough. | ||
| And so thank you, C-SPAN, for having this forum to let people bring their thoughts to the fore. | ||
| Of course, having some curatorial discernment, but frankly, there's not enough places like this. | ||
| So thank you. | ||
| I appreciate it. | ||
| But to her point, she said that if people would get all the facts, then suddenly this great change in their attitude and presentation or demeanor will happen. | ||
| Do you find, given your experience, that's the case? | ||
| Or do people just hold on to what their mindset is when it comes to disagreeing with people? | ||
| To be honest, that's part of the sort of patronizing thought line of thinking that I'm trying to move away from. | ||
| People often say, oh, if people just, if others, the other, just saw the world as I see it and had the same set of facts that I do, we would surely all agree. | ||
| And that's what I think is so patronizing because people can have the same facts and still have disagreement, still have different visions of flourishing and the good. | ||
| And that has always been the case, Pedro. | ||
| As long as we've been together as a species, we've been trying to come together and do life with other human beings. | ||
| And it's always been hard because we're never going to see things the same way. | ||
| And it always will be the case. | ||
| It's a naive goal to say, let's just make sure everyone has all the correct information and all the correct facts, and then we'll perfectly agree. | ||
| That's just not going to be the case. | ||
| What I would rather focus on, instead of trying to cultivate perfect information and perfect agreement, is trying to, again, revive this basic appreciation of personhood, which is the key antidote to our dehumanizing time. | ||
| Once we see other human beings in the fullness of who they are, beings with innate dignity and worth, we will see that we owe them a bare minimum of respect, even when we vehemently disagree. | ||
| I'm not saying all ideas are equal, Pedro. | ||
| I'm not arguing that all ideas, you know, for an intellectual marketplace where all ideas come to the fore and we just hash them out in public. | ||
| No, some ideas ought to be relegated to the dustbin of history, such as ideas that put people and ethnicities on a racial totem pole. | ||
| But I am arguing that all persons are equal, and even those persons who have hateful views deserve a bare minimum of respect just by virtue of our shared personhood. | ||
| Jesse joins us from Arizona, Republican line. | ||
| Good morning. | ||
|
unidentified
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Yes. | |
| Good morning. | ||
| Thank you so much. | ||
| Lexi, I just really wanted to say I like your idea about progressive disagreement. | ||
| And, you know, I'm a social studies teacher, so I'm going to break this down. | ||
| I'm going to say for the media, I love C-SPAN. | ||
| I think they do a great job of trying to create a progressive discussion with disagreements. | ||
| I think for political purposes, I think the political parties really need to have more disagreement in their parties and allow that. | ||
| I'm going to say for social purposes, adults are not going to fix this problem unless we focus on helping the kids with this issue. | ||
| I just had an interesting staff member from Buffalo tell me he heard a lot of Hispanic kids here using the N-word and really talking bad about black kids. | ||
| And he didn't realize how bad that racial issue was. | ||
| And I told him I'm from New Mexico and it is a pretty interesting issue. | ||
| So I just think that's really interesting. | ||
| And then finally, for business purposes, I will say I started my own business, PencilPals.shop, and I have red and blue color ink pens. | ||
| And it doesn't matter what party anybody's in. | ||
| I tell all my students, you know, if you're a teacher, you got to love all your students. | ||
| It doesn't matter where they're coming from. | ||
| So I just think everyone's awesome. | ||
| And I think we just all need to try to keep, yeah, just trying to be ourselves and trust. | ||
| I think trust is the ultimate issue. | ||
| We got to trust each other beyond everything. | ||
| That's the biggest issue. | ||
| Jesse there in Arizona. | ||
| Thanks for calling. | ||
| Thanks, Jesse. | ||
| I want to personally invite you to reach out to me. | ||
| I want you to be as a social studies teacher, part of the small working group of educators across the country I'm working with as I'm writing this children's book and the curriculum. | ||
| So please reach out to me. | ||
| We'd love you on part of the civic renaissance community and also your help with this. | ||
| But I know we're low on time. | ||
| We're running to the end page, where I want to leave viewers and Jesse in particular with three tips for how to navigate Thanksgiving dinners, dinners. | ||
| We're hosting three out of four days this weekend. | ||
| And so, and I thought of it because of this first thing Jesse said about our party system, which is so broken. | ||
| You know, he wanted, he called for more dialogue and debate within party systems. | ||
| And this is what's so hard about the American party system right now. | ||
| It's so reductionistic where there's so much diversity within, you know, Republicans and Democrats. | ||
| There's like spectrums within each party that it's so, there are so many limitations to just to just saying, oh, I'm Republican or I'm a Democrat because it doesn't capture the fullness that there's so many spectrums within that. | ||
| So I want to argue my first tip that responds to that reductionistic moment we're in where we think we know everything about someone based on one aspect of who they are. | ||
| We hear someone's a Republican, we hear someone's a Democrat, and we think, oh, you know, I know everything there is to know and this person has nothing to teach me. | ||
| I want to, this is my first of three of three tips for your Thanksgiving dinners this evening and this weekend. | ||
| The first is unbundling people. | ||
| Unbundling people is a mental framework I use in my book to basically see the part of someone that we may not like or disagree with, something they've said or done, in light of the whole of who they are, which is the irreducible dignity and personhood and worth of them as a human being. | ||
| And even zooming out and seeing the fullness of our relationship, the full context of our interactions with them. | ||
| For example, to me, the unspoken crisis of our crisis of dehumanization is the number, the shocking number of lifelong friendships and personal relationships that have been ended over political disagreement. | ||
| And that's not how it should be. | ||
| We've let politics matter too much. | ||
| We need to put politics back in its proper place and instead recover, recover friendship, recover the most important things in life, family relationships. | ||
| And unbundling people can do that. | ||
| Aunt Agnes is at your dinner table. | ||
| You disagree vehemently on one issue. | ||
| Remember how she showed up at your piano recital growing up. | ||
| Remember all the times she cared for you when you were sick. | ||
| Don't just say, you know, she voted for this person, therefore I can't have her in my life. | ||
| Zoom out, unbundle her, remember the context. | ||
| That'll help you and help you be happier and more joyful this holiday and beyond. | ||
| So unbundle people. | ||
| Second, don't talk politics, this Thanksgiving table, this Thanksgiving, around your dinner table. | ||
| It's okay to draw a bright red line and say, you know what, this is not the forum for that. | ||
| This is the form for friendship, for bonds, for relationships. | ||
| And let's nurture, let's cultivate those bonds of love rather than bringing the divisiveness that is everywhere. | ||
| Politics is everywhere in a way it hasn't been in the past. | ||
| It's bad for democracy, bad for society, bad for our souls. | ||
| Draw a bright red line around, like, you know, say, politics does not cross my threshold at my front door. | ||
| Don't bring it in the house. | ||
| Don't bring it around the table. | ||
| Just say, this is a conversation for another day. | ||
| Talk about everything but and nurture those bonds, the relationships. | ||
| So unbundling, don't talk politics. | ||
| And my third point is: remember the hidden superpower of the 21st century. | ||
| I learned this from my amazing grandma Margaret who passed away five years ago. | ||
| It is unoffendability. | ||
| How to be unoffendable is the hidden superpower, underrated superpower of the 21st century. | ||
| Remember if that, that if someone says something that you find deeply uncomfortable or offensive, you have it within your power to say, I'm not going to be offended by that. | ||
| That is, that is something you can control. | ||
| It's not like someone, we're not like animals. | ||
| We're a step above animals, where it's not just like, you know, input, stimulus, offensive thing, output. | ||
| We have to be offended. | ||
| We can actually choose and say, I am, I'm not going to respond. | ||
| I'm going to choose to rise above that, ignore it, you know, whatever you will. | ||
| But remember, that is within your control to be unoffendable, like my grandmother was, who is totally unflappable. | ||
| So, three tips to bring to your Thanksgiving dinner table. | ||
| Sorry to interrupt. | ||
| At the end of the day, how do you know if your efforts on this idea of civility are successful? | ||
| How do you gauge that? | ||
| I gauge it by this growing movement that is afoot. | ||
| I have, you know, 50,000 people on Civic Renaissance, my newsletter and intellectual community, and growing. | ||
| I have these ambassadors across, again, geography, vocation, civic renaissance ambassadors that are building institutions around my book. | ||
| I have, to promote flourishing across difference, to not try and erase difference. | ||
| And they are actively, you know, convening and fundraising to build initiatives around these ideas in their local communities. | ||
| I hear all the time that people are being encouraged by this message that we don't have, we can't, we don't have to, and we, in fact, cannot wait for the other, you know, for this person, for that leader to change, that we have way more power to be a part of the solution than we realize. | ||
| People are taking that message to heart. | ||
| I work with these people every day, and I'm so encouraged by that. | ||
| And I have reason to hope, and I hope you and your viewers do as well. | ||
| The Soul of Civility, Timeless Principles to Heal Society and Ourselves, written by Lexi Hudson, joining us on Washington Journal. | ||
| Ms. Hudson, thanks for your time. | ||
| Happy Thanksgiving to you. | ||
|
unidentified
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A pleasure. | |
| Happy Thanksgiving, Pedro. | ||
| We will continue on the conversation of civility and politics with Alexander Hefner. | ||
| He is the host of PBS's The Open Mind, has been talking to leaders across the world about this idea of discourse in politics and joins us next to take your questions when Washington Journal continues. | ||
|
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Today, starting at 10 a.m. Eastern, C-SPAN presents a day-long America 250 Marathon, all part of our more than year-long coverage of historic moments that explore the American story. | |
| At 11 a.m., we'll feature Boston's Freedom Trail through a guided tour featuring the site of the Boston Massacre, Old Statehouse, Faniel Hall, and Old North Church. | ||
| Give me liberty or give me death. | ||
| At 2.30 p.m. Eastern, Patrick Henry's Give Me Liberty or Give Me Death speech on the 250th anniversary and in its original location, St. John's Church in Richmond. | ||
| At 6.05 p.m., the U.S. Navy 250th Anniversary Victory at Sea concert in Philadelphia with a musical performance by Patty LaBelle. | ||
| Also at 8 p.m., the 1775 Battle of Bunker Hill, where more than 1,000 reenactors commemorate one of the earliest and most consequential Revolutionary War battles. | ||
| And at 9.30 p.m., a celebration of the U.S. Army's 250th anniversary, featuring a parade through Washington, D.C., an enlistment ceremony, parachute demonstration, and fireworks. | ||
| Watch the America 250 Thanksgiving all-day marathon today on C-SPAN. | ||
| Also, head over to C-SPAN.org to get the full schedule. | ||
| On the day after Thanksgiving, on Friday, C-SPAN will present a marathon lineup of episodes from our new weekly series, America's Book Club, hosted by acclaimed author and civic leader David Rubinstein from 10 a.m. to 7 p.m. Eastern. |