| Speaker | Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
|
unidentified
|
You can't do that. | |
| You can't. | ||
| That's not playing fair with the United States, and we can't have that. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Thank you. | |
| Thank you very much indeed. | ||
| Thank you. Thank you. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| C-SPAN's Washington Journal, our live forum, inviting you to discuss the latest issues in government, politics, and public policy from Washington, D.C. to across the country. | ||
| Coming up Friday morning, we'll discuss the September 30th government funding deadline and congressional news of the day first with Texas Republican Congressman Keith Self, a member of the Foreign Affairs Committee and the Freedom Caucus. | ||
| And then we'll talk with Virginia Democratic Congressman Suhas Subramanya, a member of the Science Space and Technology and Oversight and Accountability Committees. | ||
| C-SPAN's Washington Journal. | ||
| Join the conversation live at 7 Eastern Friday morning on C-SPAN, C-SPAN Now, our free mobile app, or online at c-SPAN.org. | ||
| Former Vice President Mike Pence spoke about the current state of politics and the shooting death of conservative activist Charlie Kirk. | ||
| The former Vice President also discussed the events of January 6th, 2021, when Trump supporters threatened his life. | ||
| This interview took place at the Atlantic Festival in New York City. | ||
| Hello. | ||
| Arianne. | ||
| Hello. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| Mr. Vice President, how are you? | ||
| I'll let you know in about 39 minutes. | ||
| I'm good, Tim. | ||
| It's good to see you. | ||
| Thank you for having me. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, of course. | |
| It's been a crazy couple of weeks here. | ||
| I want to start, obviously, with the Charlie Kirk assassination. | ||
| You know, following the shooting last week, President Trump had been given several opportunities to call for healing and to bring down the temperature. | ||
| But instead, he largely responded by blaming the quote-unquote radical left and basically blaming the left for all that ails the country, including political violence. | ||
| And I don't know if you were surprised by that, necessarily by his response, but were you bothered by it? | ||
| Well, again, thanks for having me here, and I want to thank the Atlantic Festival. | ||
| And thank you all for the warm welcome. | ||
| I knew Charlie Kirk. | ||
| Met him in the campaign in 2016. | ||
| He's a dynamic young man, a good, godly young man, devoted husband and father of two beautiful young children. | ||
| And as I sit here today, I'm just heartsick about what happened last week. | ||
| I understand the anger that so many feel around the country, including, I think, the president. | ||
| But there is no place in America for political violence, and it should be universally condemned. | ||
| I want to commend law enforcement in Utah, Tim. | ||
| I spoke yesterday to Governor Spencer Cox, who I think really distinguished himself in the thoughtful way that he articulated the efforts of the Utah law enforcement working with federal officials to be able to apprehend the perpetrator of the crime within 33 hours. | ||
| Was a great credit to law enforcement at every level, but also a great credit to the good people of Utah who responded quickly and admirably. | ||
| The Bible says you mourn with those who mourn and grieve with those who grieve. | ||
| And I think it's important that in the wake of this national tragedy that we take time simply to grieve the loss of life that occurred here. | ||
| But I also believe we need to resist the temptation to put America on trial. | ||
| I mean, absent any additional evidence, one man was responsible for the assassination of Charlie Kirk. | ||
| That man is now in custody, and now comes justice. | ||
| And while, with this rising tide of political violence that we've seen on both sides of the aisle, I understand the deep concern. | ||
| I don't think we ever want to lose sight of the fact of personal responsibility and the need for every American to focus on holding those accountable who would perpetrate this violence in the name of politics or for any other reason. | ||
| Now, all that being said, it's Charlie Kirk probably had some differences with people in this room. | ||
| I probably do too. | ||
|
unidentified
|
No. | |
| But that's okay. | ||
|
unidentified
|
No. | |
| He was a champion of freedom of speech. | ||
| He went, as I've sought to do since I left office, he went to campuses. | ||
| It was a year and a half ago I was at the UVU campus speaking with students at George Mason University just yesterday. | ||
| It's been a great joy for me. | ||
| But he took that case, that conservative youth case, to campuses everywhere. | ||
| He was, in a very real sense, he was a champion for the freedom of speech. | ||
| And I truly do believe that we need to make sure that part of his legacy is a continuation of the vitality of freedom of speech for every American for years to come. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well, let's talk about freedom of speech, Mr. Vice President. | |
| I'm sure you saw the news last night that Jimmy Kimmel's ABC show was pulled indefinitely after the FCC chairman Brennan Carr made sort of a mafiosa threat to go after the network in response to Kimmel's remarks about the assassination. | ||
| Now, the substance of those remarks from Kimmel aside, and to be clear, he was wrong, flat out wrong factually. | ||
| Isn't the First Amendment at risk when the FCC chairman tries to intimidate a news network over content that he personally disagrees with or that the state disagrees with? | ||
| Well, the First Amendment of the Constitution protects against government censorship of individuals. | ||
| And we ought ever to be vigilant to ensure the right of every American to express their views without government interference or censorship. | ||
| The First Amendment, though, does not protect entertainers who say crass or thoughtless things, as Jimmy Kimmel did in the wake of a national tragedy. | ||
| And private employers have every right to dismiss employees, whether they're television talk show hosts or otherwise, if they violate the standards of that company. | ||
| Now, I would have preferred that the chairman of the FCC had not weighed in. | ||
| But I respect the right of the networks to make the decision. | ||
| And it's not personal for me. | ||
| I don't think Jimmy Kimmel ever had a kind word to say about me and once apologized for something he said about me on the air. | ||
| But that's not the point. | ||
| The point in this case is that in the wake of a heartbreaking tragedy impacting people across the country that he would act in such a callous and thoughtless way, and I respect the right of his employer to make that decision. | ||
| Now, speech is important, though. | ||
| And the other part of this is, I have long believed that democracy depends on heavy doses of civility. | ||
| During the course of my 20 years in public office, I tried to manifest that. | ||
| It proceeded out of my Christian faith. | ||
| It's something we share, Tim. | ||
| You know, I often tell people I'm a Christian, a conservative, and a Republican in that order. | ||
| And so at least later in my life, when I got into politics, I tried to live up to that standard to do unto others as I would have them do unto me. | ||
| And I hope I left Washington, D.C. with the kind of rapport and relationships that I perceive among people who knew that for me it was never personal. | ||
| I think negative personal attacks have no place in public life. | ||
| It wasn't always true for me, though. | ||
| Full disclosure, you can buy my autobiography, which is entitled So Help Me God. | ||
| It's available on Amazon.com and where all good books are sold. | ||
| Early in my political career, I got very involved in negative personal attacks. | ||
| I was in a couple of congressional campaigns, gave as good as I got. | ||
| But after it was all over, I had time to reflect on what the obligations of my Christian faith that I'd come to as a freshman in college had on me. | ||
| And I wrote an essay entitled Confessions of a Negative Campaigner in 1991. | ||
| I said, if I ever had the chance to go back to the public square, first, I would seek to run campaigns and serve in a way that treated others the way I wanted to be treated. | ||
| Secondly, I'd try to be about issues that were more important than my election. | ||
| And then third, be about winning. | ||
| And I always sought to hew to that. | ||
| But in the wake of this rising tide of political violence, going all the way back to the congressional baseball game that happened when we were in the White House and my friend Steve Scalise almost lost his life that day. | ||
| The attack on Gabby Giffords, the assassination attempts against President Donald Trump, the attack on, which threatened the lives of the family of Governor Shapiro in Pennsylvania, of course, the heinous murder of the Minnesota Speaker of the House and Charlie Kirk's assassination. | ||
| In the wake of all of that, while I don't think we should blame the American political debate on moments where evil grabs hold of the heart of an individual and leads to violence, I do think leaders would do well to restore a threshold of civility in American public life. | ||
| Let's argue about policies. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Let's argue about the power. | |
| Well, actually, I occasionally have a bad hair day, so I'm on the list. | ||
| But I would tell you, I honestly believe that it's something I've witnessed over the last 30 years. | ||
| It just, you know, I'm somebody who believes you can disagree without being disagreeable. | ||
| I mean, somebody I enjoyed a very warm personal relationship with up until the day he passed away was a giant of the civil rights movement who served in the Congress, the late Congressman John Lewis. | ||
| Now, John and I, I think, Tim, disagreed on everything, except one, and that was that Martin Luther King Jr. was one of the heroes of my youth. | ||
| I knew who John Lewis was the day I arrived. | ||
| And we bonded on the foundation of our faith, even though public policy expressed itself differently. | ||
| But he was a man of a deep Christian faith that had animated him being an enormously consequential leader in the civil rights movement. | ||
| And it led to him inviting me to co-lead the annual civil rights pilgrimage to Selma, Alabama, on the anniversary of Bloody Sunday. | ||
| And one of the great privileges of my life was walking across the Edmund Pettus Bridge with my children, my wife at my side, and John Lewis. | ||
| It was an extraordinary experience. | ||
| The humorous part of that was after I was elected vice president, I went to a big public event. | ||
| I think it was a congressional baseball game itself. | ||
| And this was before the tragic events that would follow a year later. | ||
| But I remember I walked into the main hall at the stadium, and as you might imagine, all the Democrats and the staff were on this side of the main hall. | ||
| All the Republicans were on this side. | ||
| And as new vice president, I'm over here. | ||
| People are shaking hands. | ||
| And suddenly across the lobby, I see John Lewis waving his arms and like makes a beeline straight to me, throws his arms around me, says he's proud of me, great to see you. | ||
| And I don't know if there were more slack jaws among Republicans or among Democrats, but it is possible to forge relationships with people that you differ with on issues, as long as we understand that there are things more important. | ||
| There are things that really bind us. | ||
| It's the ideals of the country. | ||
| It can be our shared faith. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Mr. Vice President. | |
| And we can build on that. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I want to linger for a moment on this question of the First Amendment and freedom of speech, because the FCC chairman saying to ABC, we can do this the easy way or we can do this the hard way. | |
| This is not an isolated example. | ||
| We have President Trump saying that George Soros should be put in jail, Stephen Miller promising a government campaign to dismantle and destroy left-wing groups. | ||
| The Attorney General, Pambondi, talking about prosecuting hate speech. | ||
| So I'm wondering, are you worried that the administration is using Charlie Kirk's murder as a pretense for prosecuting political dissent in this country? | ||
| Well, I spent four and a half years explaining what President Trump meant. | ||
| So I'll leave the president to his words. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh, I'm not sure. | |
| You could take a step back. | ||
| Look, I have more confidence in the people around the president than that. | ||
| I said before, I was disappointed to see the chairman of the FCC weigh into a matter upon the people. | ||
|
unidentified
|
These are the people around the president, though. | |
| The attorney general talking about prosecuting hate speech. | ||
| Well, of course, we don't prosecute hate speech in America. | ||
| There are hate crimes in America where there are actions. | ||
| But we don't prosecute speech. | ||
| I believe she's sought to correct that impression. | ||
| And I appreciate that. | ||
| I would just tell you, Tim, that while I understand the concern of many on the left when they hear about investigations, I just remember that summer of 2020 and the riots that tore asunder Minneapolis and some, I think, 50 cities across the country. | ||
| And what we found along the way was that some organizations were actually pre-positioning bricks that rioters could use, pre-positioning water and supplies and food. | ||
| And I don't know that we ever got an answer to that. | ||
| And if there are individuals that are facilitating violence against American citizens, I believe they should be held to account and they should be exposed. | ||
| But that doesn't include people that are simply exercising their First Amendment rights in a peaceful manner. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I want to talk about party politics. | |
| The title of this session is The Future of Conservatism. | ||
| And it seems like ancient history now, but you had really first distinguished yourself in the Congress as a conservative who was opposing your own party's president, George W. Bush, on some of the major initiatives of his presidency, No Child Left Behind, Medicare Part D, bank bailout. | ||
| And I'm wondering today, when you see Republicans in Congress making these I'm speaking of the George W. Bush library tomorrow, so I'm going to... | ||
| You're going to get me uninvited with that. | ||
|
unidentified
|
No, he would not invite you. | |
| But you're right. | ||
| No, you're right. | ||
|
unidentified
|
You guys are buds now. | |
| But I'm curious, when you see Republicans in Congress today making these sort of gratuitous shows of capitulation to President Trump, encouraging him to run for a third term, or hanging the gold-framed portraits of him in their congressional offices, what does it say to you about the separation of powers and what does it say to you about the state of the Republican Party today? | ||
| Well, I mean, even at the risk of getting uninvited tomorrow, it took me a long time to get to Congress, which you can read about in my book. | ||
| And I learned a lot of lessons along the way. | ||
| But one of the things I learned was I just, I thought, if I ever get there, I'm just going to do what I told people I would do in all the years that preceded it. | ||
| I was actually a talk radio show host in Indiana. | ||
| I know that seems impossible, but I can be a lot more interesting, you know, when you let me go. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Rush Limbaugh on decaf. | |
| I was Rush Limbaugh on decaf. | ||
| I really was. | ||
| But I'd spent 10 years or better part of 10 years on the radio talking about the principles of limited government, a strong defense, American leadership in the world, traditional values. | ||
| And I just said, when I get to Washington, I'm just going to, this is how I'm going to vote. | ||
| And that was when President Bush was elected. | ||
| The first bill he introduced was doubling the Federal Department of Education, which I'm someone that believes, and I did as governor, that education is a state and local function. | ||
| I've been married to a school teacher for 40 years, so I voted against it. | ||
| I was one of the few. | ||
| We opposed entitlement expansions under President Bush out of a commitment to fiscal discipline. | ||
| But people would oftentimes come up to me and they would say on the floor, they say, hey, you have to go along with the administration on this because you work for the president. | ||
| And I would say, I don't work for the president. | ||
| I work for the people of East Central Indiana. | ||
| And I believe that's how the framers intended it. | ||
| Yesterday was Constitution Day. | ||
| So I visited my office in Washington, which is right across from the National Archives. | ||
| And if before you head home after the Atlantic Festival, you make your way to Washington, for the first time in history, the entire Constitution is displayed at the archives. | ||
| Every single page, every single amendment. | ||
| And I made a point when I took over some interns for our foundation yesterday. | ||
| I pointed out what Article I is. | ||
| It's written right there. | ||
| It's the legislative branch that appears under those timeless words chiseled into the hearts of every American, we the people. | ||
| I mean, at the founding of the country, the framers of the Constitution conceived of a government of co-equal branches of government and separation of powers. | ||
| I have an argument today with the president's unilateral tariffs imposed on friend and foe alike because Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution gives the authority to tax and tariff, they called them imposts, to the Congress. | ||
|
unidentified
|
The Republicans in Congress. | |
| Not to the executive. | ||
| And so I have been urging my colleagues to reclaim that authority and to reassert their prerogatives. | ||
|
unidentified
|
And what do they say to you when you encourage them to do that? | |
| Close majorities right now. | ||
| I mean, Russell Kirk is my favorite political philosopher wrote long ago that politics is the art of the possible. | ||
| And I don't ignore the fact that there's very close majorities in the House, that we live in a competitive time. | ||
| I don't ignore the dominant role that President Trump plays in the life of the Republican Party today. | ||
| But I actually think that members of my party would serve the president. | ||
| Well, another great example of this is, I mean, I have, over the last three years, I've visited Ukraine twice since the brutal and unprovoked Russian invasion. | ||
| I hold the view that the United States and our Western allies need to continue to give Ukraine the resources they need until the Russian invasion is stopped and repelled. | ||
| But right now, 85 members of the Senate are co-sponsoring a bill that would put backbreaking sanctions on countries that buy Russian oil and essentially prop up the Russian war machine. | ||
| And we've written, we've been very public about it, that the president has not given the Senate the green light to pass the bill yet. | ||
| And if I was around, I'd probably be a little bit of a pain in the neck and say, let's pass it anyway. | ||
| Put it on the floor, put it on the president's desk. | ||
| I've met Vladimir Putin. | ||
| And I'm going to tell you something, folks. | ||
| Vladimir Putin is not going to stop until he's stopped. | ||
| He's not going to stop until we raise the cost for his brutal invasion so high that he rethinks it. | ||
| And I think the time has come for harsh new sanctions against those that subsidize the Russian war machine. | ||
| We probably ought to go ahead and unfreeze those Russian assets, about $300 billion, and send them to Ukraine. | ||
| But this is an important contest because I have no doubt, I've said this many times, I have no doubt that I was on stage during my, I ran for president in 2023, not so where you'd notice. | ||
| But I was on stage with another writer and commentator who said that my support for Ukraine, for U.S. support for Ukraine, would get us into World War III. | ||
| Anybody that thinks capitulating to the barbaric ambitions of dictators will get you into World War III needs to study World War II. | ||
| I mean, and I say with some sadness, it was Republicans that led the effort in the 1930s to look the other way, to say it wasn't our fight in Europe. | ||
| And I got to tell you, I have no doubt that Vladimir Putin overruns Ukraine, it's only a matter of time before he crosses a border that our men and women in uniform are going to have to go fight him. | ||
| And so I think we need to stand firm now, call out our Western allies, as the President has rightly done, to do more. | ||
| But I think the time has come, going back to Article 1, that the Senate and the House ought to send those sanctions to the President's desk and send a deafening message that the American people stand for freedom and stand as the leader of the free world. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Mr. Vice President, sticking with the Republican Party for a minute, I have this vivid recollection of you and I talking aboard your campaign airplane. | |
| It's the fall of 2016. | ||
| It's called Trump Force 2. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well, was it called that during the campaign, during the 16 campaign? | |
| It was. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay, Trump Force 2. | |
| Well, this was minutes before, you may recall, minutes before the plane went off the tarmac at Lawarte and almost went into the river and the ambulances and fire trucks had to come get us off the plane. | ||
| It was quite an episode. | ||
| But you told me that evening on the plane, you said that looking back on the Bush era, you said that by about 2006, the Republican Party had lost its way. | ||
| Those were the words that you used. | ||
| And as a result of it, the Republican Party then went into this long period in the wilderness. | ||
| And you were describing this 10 years later in retrospect. | ||
| So here we are, late 2025. | ||
| And I'm curious, as you look back over the last 10 years, but specifically at this moment in the Republican Party with massive spending and tariffs and trade wars and threatening cities with military occupation and taking equity stakes in private companies, has your party once again lost its way well. | ||
| Thanks for remembering all that history. | ||
| I'm really humbled by that. | ||
| No, I did. | ||
| I said, look, under President Bush, we were growing government and the federal level. | ||
| And I hold the view that the Republican Party needs to be a choice, not an echo. | ||
| And we lost the majority in 2006. | ||
| We would win it back. | ||
| But when we arrived at the White House in January of 2017, I think part of the reason I was chosen is because candidate Donald Trump ran on and wanted to build an administration, one of the distinguished members of which you heard just a little bit ago, H.R. McMaster, that would hew to that traditional conservative agenda. | ||
| Strong military American leadership in the world, standing with our allies, standing up to our enemies, promoting pro-growth tax relief, deregulation, standing for the right to life, standing for values and religious liberty. | ||
| And I would tell you, Tim, that while the administration did not end the way I wanted it to, and I'll always believe I did my duty on that fateful day four years ago. | ||
| God's grace. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| But in the days leading up to that, I'm very proud of that record. | ||
| The first Trump administration, that I like to call the Trump-Pence administration, governed on a conservative agenda. | ||
| As opposed to— And the reason I jumped in that primary in 2023 was because I sensed that the Republican Party and even my former running mate were following what I call a siren song of populism unmoored to conservative principle. | ||
| Literally, on foreign policy beginning to embrace a more isolationist view of American foreign policy as opposed to America's the leader of the free world. | ||
| Policies that frankly expand big government and speak of price controls on a whole range of industries, including our pharmaceutical industries. | ||
| And I also frankly saw President Trump as a candidate and others in our party marginalizing the right to life after what I believe was an extraordinary new beginning for life for the American people in the overturning of Roe versus Wade. | ||
| And so I do have a concern that while I'm grateful for the extension of the tax cuts, I'm frankly proud of President Trump for taking action, military action against Iran. | ||
| I'm grateful that he's gotten to a better place on Ukraine because the forces in and around the president in this administration are driving toward that populist agenda. | ||
| And my calling right now is simply to be a voice for what I think has just been the traditional conservative Reagan agenda. | ||
| That's the agenda that drew me to the Republican Party. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Is there a I know that, you know, in talking with friends of yours and kindred spirits, you hold to a belief that once the Trump era passes and that once he has left the national stage that the party will come back to those traditional conservative values. | |
| But I look around and I see this exodus over the past 10 to 15 years of some of those traditional small government conservatives in the Republican Party largely replaced by some of those sort of flamethrowing populists that you've been describing. | ||
| So I'm wondering where that confidence comes from. | ||
| Why do you believe that the Republican Party will regain its old small government form once Trump exits stage right? | ||
| Because I think President Trump, who it may surprise you because he and I are very different people, we had a very good relationship for four years. | ||
| Very good working relationship. | ||
| Actually, never had a crossword between us until those fateful days at the end. | ||
| And I think President Trump has, in effect, changed the leadership of the Republican Party in many respects. | ||
| But Tim, I just, I don't believe he's changed the Republican Party. | ||
|
unidentified
|
You don't? | |
| No, I've been traveling around the country, you know, without all the company I used to have. | ||
| Get to stop people on the street, say hello at the airport, speak at events, speak at schools. | ||
| Everywhere I go, I have had people come up to me and say, I just say kind words about our service. | ||
| And then Republican-leaning voters will say, I just agree with your philosophy of government. | ||
| I really believe that. | ||
| I think that as long as we hold that banner high, the time will come when people come back to it. | ||
| And I think that's not only good for the Republican Party, which may not be a real priority for some in the room. | ||
| But I think when you look at the agenda of a strong America in the world, a strong national defense, a limited government, fiscal responsibility, a respect for values and liberties, this is good for America. | ||
| And I think the American people aren't going to have it any other way. | ||
| You know, can I tell you one other anecdote? | ||
| We're here at the World Trade Center. | ||
| You know, last week our heart broke on Wednesday, and then for me, on Thursday, I always have a heavy heart on September 11th. | ||
| But I want to give you a little bit of hope about the country. | ||
| Back when I was a radio talk show host, I was interviewing a whole bunch of Medal of Honor winners from World War II. | ||
| We have a memorial in Indianapolis. | ||
| We dedicated it. | ||
| And this was 1999. | ||
| And this World War II veteran who had jumped on a hand grenade in a foxhole in Europe and it went off, I don't even know how I was talking to him, got the Medal of Honor. | ||
| And he's sitting next to me, and he's obviously a conservative guy and it's an older fellow. | ||
| And so I got pretty comfortable with him, and I just said, boy, 1999. | ||
| I said, boy, you probably, I said, you probably look around at youth these days and really, really worry about America, don't you? | ||
| Being part of the greatest generation. | ||
| And all of a sudden, his face just changed. | ||
| And he said, you don't have the first idea what you're talking about. | ||
| This was on the air. | ||
| And I said, well, why don't you help me? | ||
| And he said, growing up in the 1930s, we partied as much as kids do these days. | ||
| We ran around, we wasted time, drove our parents crazy. | ||
| And he said, but when the time came, we did what needed to be done because we were Americans. | ||
| And what you don't understand is these kids will do the same thing. | ||
| Fast forward two years, the planes hit right here. | ||
| Then at the Pentagon and then in Shanksville. | ||
| And the next day, in cities and towns, large and small, there were lions around the block at every recruiting station in America. | ||
| And I'll never forget on that day I thought of that man and that he was right. | ||
| I mean, I really do believe at the end of the day, those three words I mentioned that I just saw yesterday in the National Archives, other than my faith in God, my faith in the American people is boundless. | ||
| And the American people will steer us back to what they know has always made this country strong and prosperous and free. | ||
| And they'll always step up and do what needs to be done. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I'd like to close the loop on this question of Republicanism and the future. | |
| To your point that Trump, you believe Trump has not fundamentally changed the party, I would disagree. | ||
| And the clearest data point would be that the former vice president under Donald Trump was Mike Pence. | ||
| The current vice president under Donald Trump is JD Vance. | ||
| What do you make of JD Vance? | ||
| We've actually never met. | ||
| Never? | ||
| No. | ||
| He was a pretty harsh critic of our administration during our four years. | ||
| It's a free country. | ||
| I never held it against him. | ||
| Emerged in politics after we had left office. | ||
| Look, I have a unique appreciation for that job. | ||
| And I pray for the vice president. | ||
| I pray for Usha and for the little children. | ||
| And I wish him well in the role that he's in. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Did you have any conversations when he was put on the ticket? | |
| Well, but to your point, I think the time will come when our party is talking about the direction that we're going to take our party, whether it's back to those traditional conservative values as an alternative to a Democrat Party's agenda, or whether we're going to follow a populist, even a progressive agenda of isolationism and big government and shying away from values. | ||
| And I look forward to that debate. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I'm curious, Mr. Vice President, now that you have some distance from office, you know, 2024 was the first time that you hadn't been on the ballot in, you know, decades. | |
| And you chose not to endorse President Trump. | ||
| And obviously, that made some waves. | ||
| And I'm wondering, with the distance that you had from office and having not been on the ballot yourself, whether you had sort of a newfound appreciation for some of those traditional conservatives who had been reluctant to support him and to support your ticket back in 2016 or again in 2020. | ||
| Well, I'll never understand why they wouldn't support the ticket I was on. | ||
| But look, no, I stayed out of the 24 race. | ||
| The President and I have an enduring difference about my duties under the Constitution on a day in January in 2021. | ||
| I always thought he'd come around on that, and the fact that he hasn't remains an issue between us. | ||
| But I also withheld my endorsement for all the reasons that you've helped articulate today. | ||
| I saw the president beginning to steer away from the agenda that the two of us had governed on. | ||
| And I couldn't endorse an agenda that led our party in a different direction. | ||
| And since the outset of the administration, as I said, we've tried to be praiseworthy when we see the administration doing those things that I think are consistent with how we governed and how Republicans would hope for an administration to govern, but we've been willing to take on issues and even personnel that we think depart from the standards and values and principles of Republicans. | ||
| And that's what kept me out. | ||
| But I just hope to continue to be, among others, to be an anchor to windward, because I do think that the time will come that either we have a changing of the guard in politics or we face some other national crisis at home or abroad, and the American people will come back to the things that we know make us strong and prosperous and free. | ||
| And when that comes, I'm going to be a voice within the Republican Party to carry that. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Are you still in contact with the President at all, even casually, when a grandkid is born or anything like that? | |
| I don't talk as much to the President as I used to. | ||
| We had a brief encounter at President Carter's funeral. | ||
| I congratulated the President, and his countenance softens, and he gave me a vigorous handshake. | ||
|
unidentified
|
A vigorous handshake. | |
| A vigorous handshake? | ||
| It was a vigorous handshake. | ||
| And I congratulated Melania as well. | ||
| But, you know, I don't talk to the President as much as I used to, but I have every reason to believe he still listens to me. | ||
|
unidentified
|
You do, and that's really interesting. | |
| Why do you say that? | ||
| Well, because I know things. | ||
| You know, one of the best-kept secrets in America, actually, and you got a sense of this from H.R. McMaster, is that, and I hope it's an encouragement, Donald Trump listens. | ||
| He does. | ||
| I lost count of the number of times that I would always wait till it was just us alone, because I always thought Walter Mondale put it best. | ||
| He said, the Vice President owes the President his opinion once and in private. | ||
| And I hewed to that until history and my oath to the Constitution did not permit it. | ||
| But I do believe the President listens and is attentive. | ||
| And so while I'm not in the Oval Office as I was virtually every day for four years, my hope is to continue to be an influence, to encourage the better angels of his nature, and help him. | ||
| Whatever differences you have with President Donald Trump, he is our president. | ||
| And we want him to be successful. | ||
| We want America to be successful. | ||
| And that's the reason I pray for the president. | ||
| And that's the reason why I'll continue to try and be a voice, a consistent voice for conservative values. | ||
| So help me, God. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Let me close with this, Mr. Vice President. | |
| We've gone over our 39 minutes. | ||
| Although Jeff Goldberg encouraged me backstage to do so, I just want to be clear on that. | ||
| He said the clock does not apply to Vice President Mike Pence. | ||
| That's not verbatim, but close. | ||
| I'm curious. | ||
| It's like the Senate, for heaven's sake. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Your faith is so central to your life, and I was so struck in reading your book, which really is compelling, and I would encourage people to read it for themselves. | |
| Thank you, Tom. | ||
|
unidentified
|
You're welcome. | |
| You know, President Trump didn't just put you in danger that day. | ||
| He put your family in danger. | ||
| And I know that your family, your wife, have had a hard time with that. | ||
| You had a very hard time with that. | ||
| You were very angry. | ||
| Has it been a struggle to forgive President Trump for what he did to you and your family on January 6th? | ||
| You know, when we were evacuated first to my Senate office and then to the loading dock underneath the Capitol, we were witnessing mostly just on our phones what was happening. | ||
| And I've often been asked if I was afraid, and I don't say this to be self-important. | ||
| I wasn't afraid. | ||
| I was angry. | ||
| I was angry at what I saw. | ||
| And I found myself thinking, not this, not here, not in America. | ||
| I mean, to see the capital of the free world desecrated and ransacked, to see law enforcement officers assaulted deeply angered me. | ||
| But I will tell you, I think what was a day of tragedy, I think history will record as a triumph of freedom. | ||
| Because as I said at a recent gathering up in Boston, some people and some of you kindly welcomed me today. | ||
| And people express to me, even to this day, appreciation for what we were able to do that day. | ||
| But I remind people that it was every Republican and every Democrat in the House and Senate who reconvened the very same day after Capitol Hill Police secured the Capitol. | ||
| And we completed our work to see to the peaceful transfer of power under the Constitution of the United States. | ||
| Our institutions held that day. | ||
| And I believe every member of the Congress and of the Senate deserves to be remembered for that. | ||
| But the next morning I woke up, and as you may recall, the President made statements committing to a peaceful transfer of power. | ||
| He condemned the rioters. | ||
| He memorably said, you will pay. | ||
| I thought we were back to a good place. | ||
|
unidentified
|
So much for that. | |
| But as the week wore on, I went about my business focusing on the transition. | ||
| And it was the following Monday after January 6th that his daughter and son-in-law approached my office in the West Wing and said, Would you be willing to meet with the President? | ||
| He'd like to talk to you. | ||
| And I said, Well, I said, I don't really have anything more to say to him, but if he's got something to say to me, I'll listen to him. | ||
| And I will tell you something people in this room may be surprised to hear. | ||
| I remember I walked down to the Oval Office, back the small hallway to the small dining room where we'd spent so many times and so many meals together. | ||
| And the president was sitting at the end of the table, and he was deeply contrite, Tim, about what had happened. | ||
| He truly was. | ||
| He immediately asked Astra, my family. | ||
| He said he was not aware that Karen and my daughter were with me. | ||
| I said, well, they wouldn't leave, Mr. President. | ||
| I tried to get them to leave the building. | ||
| They wouldn't go. | ||
| And then we sat and we talked all through it. | ||
| And I again explained to him what I believe my duty was and how I kept my oath of the Constitution that day. | ||
| And I also told him that I thought the people that had desecrated the Capitol had done a great disservice to our movement because the people that I met through countless rallies, countless events over four and a half years are some of the most hardworking, decent, God-fearing, law-abiding, patriotic people I've ever met who would never do something like that there or anywhere else. | ||
| And I told him that. | ||
| But we talked through it, and in the days that followed, we worked together to complete the work of the administration. | ||
| And we parted amicably, Tim. | ||
| I'll never forget one of our last short meetings in that very same little room. | ||
| The president, again, very, in many ways, downcast for those remaining weeks of the administration, made reference again to our disagreement on that. | ||
| And I had told him that I was praying for him. | ||
| And at the end of the meeting, I got up and I said, Well, Mr. President, there's probably two things we may never agree on. | ||
| Because when I told him I was praying for him, he said, Don't bother. | ||
|
unidentified
|
He said, Don't bother praying for him. | |
| He did, but he said it in a sad tone. | ||
| When I got up, I said, There's probably two things we're never going to agree on. | ||
| And he looked up faintly from where he was seated at the end of the table. | ||
| And he said, what's that? | ||
| And I said, well, we're probably never going to agree on what I did that day. | ||
| And I looked at him and I said, I'm never going to stop praying for you. | ||
| And I haven't. | ||
| Was I angry, Tim? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| But I have learned as a follower of Jesus Christ that when you pray for people consistently, it's forgiveness flows out of that eventually. | ||
| And I believe I've forgiven the president from my heart. | ||
| I haven't forgotten. | ||
| I haven't compromised or said I have a different view of matters. | ||
| But I've forgiven him from my heart. | ||
| And I think sometimes forgiveness might be one of our scarcest natural resources these days. | ||
| And that we could all do well to think about being more forgiving to one another. | ||
| Because ultimately, I had somebody come up to me. | ||
| I went to the inauguration because I felt former vice president should be there. | ||
| I'd gone to the inauguration of President Biden and I went to President Trump's inauguration. | ||
| And I had a senator who all of you would recognize the name, so I won't use it, walk up to me and he said, good to see you, Mr. Vice President. | ||
| Glad you're here. | ||
| But he said, and then he said to me with a sigh, it's a funny business we're in, isn't it? | ||
| I put my hand on his shoulder and I said, it's not a business. | ||
| It's a country. | ||
| And he all of a sudden said, you're right. | ||
| I mean, sometimes I think the political debate kind of devolves into some, you know, entertainment or jousting when, in fact, we've got to find a way to be together. | ||
| We've got to find a way to work out our differences in a principled way. | ||
| And I think the way we work out our differences is if each of us will stand without apology on the common ground of the Constitution of the United States of America. | ||
| It is the common ground. | ||
| And it was fashioned to bring together disparate voices and disparate ideals into an environment where those could be resolved and to move forward as a nation. | ||
| And I think, as I said, I'm very hopeful about the future because I have great faith in the American people. | ||
| But I also have faith in God that he's always had his hand on this nation and will see us through. | ||
| Because I think we've got great challenges ahead. | ||
| And most of them are going to be across oceans. | ||
| My son's a major in the United States Marine Corps. | ||
| He's currently deployed. | ||
| One of my unworthy son-in-laws is a lieutenant commander in the United States Navy. | ||
| In our family, it's very personal. | ||
| My dad fought in combat in Korea. | ||
| I think decisions that we make as Americans, collectively as Americans, working through the political process, it's going to have a great deal to say of what the rest of this century looks like and how much it mirrors the first half of the last century. | ||
| So the stakes are high. | ||
| We've got to come together. | ||
| I believe we will. | ||
| And I hope my presence here today gives some evidence of the fact that I think it all begins to start talking to each other, listening to each other. | ||
| And I thank you for your kind attention today. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Mr. Vice President. | |
| Thank you for being here. | ||
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| Democracy is worth dying for. | ||
| Democracy belongs to us all. | ||
| We are here in the sanctuary of democracy. | ||
| Great responsibilities fall once again to the great democracies. | ||
| American democracy is bigger than any one person. | ||
| Freedom and democracy must be constantly guarded and protected. | ||
|
unidentified
|
We are still at our core a democracy. | |
| This is also a massive victory for democracy and for freedom. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Former President Barack Obama recently addressed the killing of conservative commentator Charlie Kirk, saying that political violence has no place in American society. | |
| He spoke at an event hosted by the Jefferson Educational Society of Erie, where the former president discussed the state of democracy in the U.S. | ||
| This runs about an hour and 25 minutes. | ||
| Good evening, Erie. | ||
| The wrong president, I know, I know. | ||
| But I'll take it until I make it. | ||
| Again, good evening. |