CSPAN - Washington Journal 01/05/2025

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Jan. 5, 2025 07:00-10:02 - CSPAN

03:01:53

Washington Journal 01/05/2025

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kimberly adams

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01:39

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00:04

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unidentified		Buckeye Broadband supports C-SPAN as a public service, along with these other television providers, giving you a front-row seat to democracy.
		Coming up on Washington Journal this morning, your calls and comments live.
		And then Democratic strategist Martha McKenna and Republican strategist Mike Ricci discuss the incoming Trump administration, the new Congress, and political news of the day.
		And then the Cato Institute's David Beer talks about the H-1B visa program, foreign workers, and their importance to the U.S. economy.
		C-SPAN's Washington Journal is next.
		Join the conversation.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
		It's Sunday, January 5th, 2025.
		The new Congress and President-elect Trump have an ambitious domestic policy agenda for 2025.
		But global challenges, including multiple wars, international migration, climate change, and more, will demand the attention of the nation's leaders as well.
		This morning, we want to hear your perspective.
		What do you think is the biggest global threat facing the United States in 2025?
		Our phone lines for Democrats, 202-748-8000.
		For Republicans, 202-748-8001.
		For Independents, that number is 202-748-8002.
		If you'd like to text us, that number is 202-748-8003.
		Please be sure to include your name and where you're writing in from.
		And if you'd like to reach us on social media, that's facebook.com/slash C-SPAN or on X at C-SPANWJ.
		Now, the role of global threats came to the fore this past week after the attack in New Orleans.
		A story in Vox about that.
		The New Orleans attack shows that ISIS hasn't gone away, it's changed.
		The caliphate is history, but ISIS is still a threat.
		Going on to say, the deadly attack in New Orleans on New Year's Eve that left 15 people dead feels like a disturbing reminder of a past era.
		One when the transnational terrorist organization known as the Islamic State or ISIS dominated the nation's attention and resources.
		Trump, one of Trump's advisors, spoke about ISIS on Fox News last month.
		Trump National Security Advisor nominee Republican Congressman Michael Walls spoke about the tricky Middle East politics confronting the incoming administration.
		Let's listen.
michael walz ▲ ● ▼		The president has been crystal clear on, and his mandate from the voters was to do everything he can to avoid us getting drug into more Middle East wars.
john roberts ▲ ● ▼		I don't think that's clear word.
michael walz ▲ ● ▼		But, you know, in Syria, he is clear-eyed about the threat of ISIS that's still there.
		This administration just hit them 75 times.
		ISIS was also looking to explode back on the scene.
		But we have tens of thousands of ISIS fighters still in camps that were put there under the first administration when we had to clean up the ISIS caliphate and are guarded by the Kurds.
		So what we have to be careful of is that once Turkey's, once the HTS backed by Turkey is done with the Assad regime, that they don't turn on our friends, the Kurds, that are guarding those ISIS camps.
john roberts ▲ ● ▼		So what about this guy, Abu Mohammed Al-Jalani?
		He was an al-Qaeda militant, an extremist.
		Now he says he's more moderate.
		There are some people who believe this is just a wolf in sheep's clothing at the moment and that Syria could be well on its way to becoming the next Afghanistan.
michael walz ▲ ● ▼		Well, the jury's out.
		So far, at least, the guy's a terrorist.
		The organization is a declared terrorist organization.
		But we haven't seen Assad regime officials hanging from bridges.
		We haven't seen mass beheadings, ISIS-style.
		They're literally sitting in a four seasons right now, John, talking with former regime officials about how to govern the place and how to take things down.
		So we're watching closely.
		The current administration is watching closely.
		And again, jury's out, but what we can't have them or others do is do anything that would unleash ISIS back on the scene.
		That's the critical interest to Americans back here at home.
		We can't have a return of that ISIS caliphate, and we have to keep a lid on it.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Going back to that Vox article about the New Orleans attack and the role of ISIS in it, the attacker, Shamsudin Bahar-Jabbar, a 42-year-old Army veteran from Texas, rammed a truck into Bourbon Street before he was killed in a shootout with police.
		He was flying an ISIS flag from his vehicle and posted videos on Facebook shortly before the attack, pledging support to the group.
		In a briefing Thursday, FBI Deputy Assistant Director Christopher Ray described Rhea described Jabbar as 100% inspired by ISIS.
		Now, other stories that are going to be on the agenda for the incoming administration will be directed by Trump's advisors, and those advisors all have quite a few things in common, as pointed out here in the Washington Examiner.
		Trump National Security picks loyalty, America first, and staunchly pro-Israel.
		Going on to say that President-elect Donald Trump has been quick to fill out his national security team, and the initial selections have provided some insight into what his second term could entail.
		The president-elect announced that Representative Mike Waltz, Republican of Florida, will serve as his national security advisor and that he will nominate Representative Elise Stefanik, Republican of New York, to be the ambassador to the United Nations, John Ratcliffe to be the director of the Central Intelligence Agency, and there have been widespread reports that he will tap Marco Rubio to serve as his Secretary of State.
		The biggest surprise so far has been that of Pete Hegseth, a veteran Fox News host, as a Defense Secretary nominee.
		Trump intentionally chose to surround himself with people who would be loyal to him and his agenda.
		A corrective decision after the beginning of his first administration was marred by conflicting interests and disloyalty among his cabinet and staff.
		He went through multiple national security advisors and defense secretaries during his first term.
		Now, again, we're looking for your thoughts this morning on the biggest global threat facing the United States in 2025.
		But before we get to your calls, we're going to take a live look at the Carter Center in Georgia, where President Jimmy Carter is lying in repose there, and the members of the public will be able to view his casket throughout the day.
		That's a live image coming from the Carter Center.
		Now then, to your calls.
		Glenn is in Brandon, Florida, on our line for Democrats.
		Good morning, Glenn.
unidentified		Good morning.
		I think one of the biggest threats is President-elect Trump's admiration of dictators worldwide.
		And I feel concerned because in my generation, we fought the Vietnam War to stop the domino effect of communism.
		And this was a friends-controlled country, far removed from us, and not really in our national interest.
		And a lot of our friends and neighbors either came back messed up or didn't come back at all.
		And now we have this war in Ukraine.
		And I fear that we're going to stop backing the Ukrainians in their just cause.
		And that this might lead to a breakdown of NATO.
		And for me, that is my biggest fear.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Glenn mentioned Ukraine.
		There's a story in The Guardian about the United States' role in that ongoing conflict.
		Here's the headline: Ukraine war briefing.
		Zelensky hopes that Trump's unpredictability can end the war with Russia.
		Going on to say that Ukrainian President Vlodymir Zelensky has expressed hope that the U.S. president-elect Donald Trump's unpredictability can help end the war with Russia.
		Trump, who takes office on the 20th of January, has said he will end the nearly three-year conflict in 24 hours once in power, a claim that has drawn skepticism from Kyiv, which fears it will be forced to give up land for peace.
		He's very strong and unpredictable, and I would really like to see President Trump's unpredictability apply to Russia.
		I believe he really wants to end the war, Zelensky said in an interview that aired Thursday with Ukrainian TV.
		Next up is John in New York on our line for independence.
		Good morning, John.
unidentified		Thank you.
		Thank you for taking my call.
		I'd just like to respond quickly.
		I used to think the greatest threat to American security would be China, Russia, Iran, and North Korea.
		But I don't believe that anymore.
		We're a nation.
		We're people that are allowed that we just allow ourselves to be caught up in all this smoke and mirrors.
		We're constantly divided over political issues.
		And you see a breakdown and actually problem solving and just a functioning society.
		We don't seem to have that anymore.
		We're losing control.
		We let events control us.
		We don't control events.
		The American people, sadly, are extremely ignorant when it comes to political issues.
		They're never organized.
		They respond to emotional outbursts.
		And what's happening basically is we're losing control of the government.
		We stay divided.
		Now, the gentleman mentioned earlier about Vietnam and stuff.
		And these wars have been going on all the time.
		And we allow ourselves to get drawn into them.
		And the only people actually benefiting are globalists.
		And I would just like to end this by saying, you know, we lost a great man.
		We lost Jimmy Carter.
		He provided moral clarity for the nation.
		He didn't have a great, successful presidency, but he was a good old boy for the nation.
		And I say that with extreme reverence.
		And, you know, you need people like him.
		And what do we have since then?
		They demonize a guy like Trump.
		They destroy the Constitution with law affair.
		And they break every constitutional principle, you know, just for personal gain.
		So I would just hope that the American people look at Trump in a more positive light, give him a chance, see how he does, and stop demonizing people that you disagree with.
		So again, Kim, thanks for taking my call.
		Have a good day.
		Bye-bye.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		John was referencing former President Jimmy Carter, who, as we mentioned earlier, is lying in repose at the Carter Center, which he will be doing today and tomorrow in Atlanta, Georgia.
		And then on Tuesday, the Carter family will be traveling to the U.S. Capitol in Washington, where the former president will lie in state at the Capitol Rotunda, and the public will be allowed to pay their respects starting at 7 p.m. that evening.
		Then on Wednesday, President Carter will again lie in state at the U.S. Capitol before being transferred, transported on Thursday to the Washington Cathedral for a funeral service.
		Later in the day, the former president will take his last trip home to be buried at the Carter family home in Georgia.
		We will, of course, show these events live on the C-SPAN networks, streaming and online at c-span.org, and on the free C-SPAN Now mobile video app.
		We were also hearing from John talking about the role of former President Trump in terms of what he might do in regards to wars around the world.
		And we have a Gallup polling which found that far more Americans now compared to in 2016 believe that Trump will keep the nation out of war, rising 17 percentage points to 55 percent.
		By contrast, in 2016, the majority, 57 percent, doubted he would keep the country out of war.
		This shift likely reflects Trump's claims that the Russia-Ukraine and Israel-Hamas wars would not have occurred had he been president, that he will end both quickly, and that he started, quote, no new wars in his first term.
		Again, we're looking to hear from you what you think the top global threat facing the United States in 2025 is.
		Our phone number for Democrats, 202-748-8000.
		Republicans, 202-748-8001.
		And Independents at 202-748-8002.
		Susan is in Southbury, Connecticut on our line for independence.
		Good morning, Susan.
unidentified		Yes, good morning.
		I think the most concerning thing I feel is the global misinformation that goes on in every country and how countries respond to the media,
		public figures, spreading misinformation that people act upon, and it can lead to interactions with people that are responding to misinformation that they believe is true, and then they act upon it, and it keeps us divided.
		And it would be nice to see where the media was not so involved in these relationships where you see them contributing to Trump's inaugural election.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		You know, I can't say I have a cold, but you mean leaders of media organizations financially contributing to Trump's inauguration fund?
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Is that what you're referencing?
unidentified		Thank you.
		Yes.
		I think there should be a firewall between the media and our politics.
		And that has shifted through the years.
		And it affected rural areas and cities.
		It's everywhere where people honestly believe things that are so not true.
		And they double down on that.
		And it's not just America, it's other countries too.
		So thank you for taking my call and have a happy new year.
		Thank you.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, Susan.
		To get a few more details on what Susan was referencing, here's an article from NPR.
		Tech moguls Altman, Bezos, and Zuckerberg donate to Trump's inauguration fund.
		Obviously, Jeff Bezos being the owner of the Washington Post.
		Silicon Valley executives, some who have long had contentious relationships with President-elect Donald Trump, are pledging money and support to Trump's incoming administration.
		Open AI CEO Sam Altman intends to make a $1 million personal donation to Trump's inauguration fund.
		The company confirmed to NPR on Friday.
		It follows news that Meta, the parent company of Instagram and Facebook, has already contributed $1 million to the fund.
		And Amazon has also promised $1 million infusion into Trump's inauguration coffers.
		Donald is in Richland, Michigan, on our line for Republicans.
		Good morning, Donald.
unidentified		Yeah, our biggest trouble is we've got too many highly educated, unqualified people.
		The woman that was in charge at the thing for Trump a while back at the fairgrounds or whatever, that woman doesn't have brains enough to come in out of the rain.
		Now, she probably had papers saying she was smart that you could paper a house with.
		The same thing with this lady in New Orleans.
		Maybe she's dumber than a sheet of drywall.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		So what do you think is the biggest global threat facing the United States?
unidentified		That's the biggest global threat right there, our own stupid people.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Elise is in Portland, Oregon on our line for Democrats.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, Elise.
unidentified		Good morning.
		Thank you for your program.
		I believe the greatest threat to our country and the world is Donald Trump.
		Yes, he was fairly elected, but look at the people that he is appointing or want to appoint, unqualified people.
		And the recent hearing for Speaker of the House, even his own GOP are supporting him.
		Everyone's afraid of this dictator.
		So if our government can't stand up to Trump, I think this is going to be the worst crisis.
		And I'm 70 years old, and I fought civil rights, women's rights 50 years ago, and I'm so saddened with what the American people have done.
		So I hope and pray that my worst fears will not come to fruition.
		Thank you.
		Bye.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Elise mentioned how Republicans may interact with President-elect Donald Trump when it comes to foreign policy.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Here's former Republican Senate leader Mitch McConnell at the Reagan Presidential Library earlier this month advocating for a continued role of American engagement on the global stage.
mitch mcconnell ▲ ● ▼		President Reagan knew that the principles that guided the West's triumph were not to be discarded with the rubble of Soviet tyranny.
		He called our attention to the old adage that America is great because it is good.
		And if America ever ceases to be good, America will cease to be great.
		And just as greatness follows goodness, and just as greatness follows goodness, he reminded us of another principle no less important.
		Peace through strength.
		The value of these lessons is timeless.
		But as we know, their endurance is hardly certain.
		At the Reagan Library, I'm preaching to the choir.
		I know that.
		But in Washington, as we face down a new era of great power competition, influential voices want to leave the lessons of the past competition, the Cold War, just leave it at the door.
		At both ends of our politics, a dangerous fiction is taking hold that America's primacy and the fruits of our leadership are actually self-sustaining.
		Even as allies across NATO and the Indo-Pacific renew their own commitments to hard power, to interoperability, and to collective defense, some now question America's own role at the center of these force-multiplying institutions and partnerships.
		With the party Ronald Reagan once led so capably, it is increasingly fashionable to suggest that the sort of global leadership he muffled is no longer America's place.
		But let's be absolutely clear.
		America will not be made great again by those who are content to manage our decline.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Again, we're looking for your thoughts on the biggest global threat facing the United States in 2025.
		You can give us a call or reach us on social media or via text.
		Sandy in Bloomington, Indiana sent us a text saying, climate change is among the biggest global threat.
		Catastrophic weather events have affected every corner of the globe and are getting increasingly worse.
		I'm afraid that Trump does not take it seriously and will even pull out of the climate accords.
		Thomas is in Vermillion, South Dakota, on our line for independence.
		Good morning, Thomas.
unidentified		Ms. Adams, great job again.
		I'm happy to call in.
		I love C-SPAM.
		First of all, I really don't think strength paths to peace.
		I really believe the most internal, internally right in America, is the biggest global threat.
		We have many terrorist cells in this country, and it's very important we focus on that.
		And the second problem, which I think really is a major elephant in the room, is our industrial military complex.
		Eisenhower warned us in 1953: beware, beware of that.
		You do not have a choice to go to war in 210.
		And we have.
		And we have just led us down a track of going to war, not able to get out of war.
		So I do want to state, let's give the new president a chance.
		He may be able to stop these wars.
		And we need my last point: I really think that Americans need to grow up and become attuned to their democracy because they are losing it.
		Decay, the decay, in my opinion, began in 1963 with the assassination of President Kennedy.
		When the government lies here, 60 years, you're in trouble.
		But that's all I wanted to state.
		I really love C-SPAM.
		And Ms. Adams, you do a great job, and thank you very much.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		John is in New York on our line for Republicans.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, John.
unidentified		Hello.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Hi there, John.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead.
unidentified		Yeah, I think we should stop messing around and get ready to nukes.
		Putin is a problem.
		We got too many nukes in the world.
		I believe the Bible.
		I'm a Christian.
		And I know the world could possibly go up as a fireball.
		2 Peter said what happened.
		Bay elements will be playing virally so intent to make the elements will melt.
		Okay?
		It's in 2 Peter in the New Testament.
		I believe the Bible, and I don't want to see the world go up as a nuclear holocaust.
		Nobody does.
		That's the biggest problem.
		There's too many nukes.
		Let's stop messing around.
		Get rid of these nukes altogether.
		Okay?
		Nuclear weapons, nuclear power plants.
		We don't need them.
		That's how I feel about it.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		George is in Downington, Pennsylvania on our line for Democrats.
		Good morning, George.
unidentified		Yeah, good morning.
		The biggest global threat right now is the fuel for the human species.
		Our food is killing us.
		And it's not conspiracy anymore.
		It's the cat's out of the bag.
		Everybody knows it, and it's causing a lot of problems.
		The other thing is the digital era.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		George, before you move on to your second point, I'm curious what you think of the incoming administration's conversations and about what they're calling their Make America Healthy Again agenda that is being sort of spearheaded by RFK Jr.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		What do you think of that?
unidentified		Ryan.
		That's a good thought.
		I mean, he's on the right path with things, but I don't know if he's going to be able to get anything done.
		Once again, as I was stating earlier about the digital stuff, everything's become so separated and communication, total communication breakdown.
		Our system is ineffective and inefficient at best from one person to the next.
		I mean, corporations have things where they can, this is off the tangent, but let me say this.
		This is a tangent.
		Corporations have the ability to track everything.
		Why doesn't the government have an ability to connect?
		I mean, we're a corporation.
		And, you know, for security reasons, they're having trouble for local officials to national officials.
		I mean, I could send a team of door knockers out right now and track them with a tablet.
		There's software for that.
		Why isn't the government doing things and enforcing efficiency and effectiveness through acts?
		So that's my spiel for today.
		Thank you.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		George was talking about the problems that he sees with our food system globally.
		And I've mentioned the incoming administration and their Make America Healthy Again agenda.
		Here's a story about it in CBS News.
		What is Make America Healthy Again?
		What to know about Trump and RFK Jr.'s wide-ranging platform?
		Robert F. Kennedy Jr. has outlined a number of promises to make America healthy again under President-elect Donald Trump, vowing to combat an epidemic of chronic diseases that he has described as an existential threat to America's future.
		All are under the banner of fighting what Kennedy sees as a common thread behind a broad swath of ailments, that Americans have been, quote, mass poisoned by big pharma and big food, and that federal agencies have failed to stop it.
		In response, he's floated a number of specific policy ideas to remake the government's public health institutions.
		And several of those have been highlighted, looking at staff changes in federal agencies, along with getting chemicals out of food and other agendas.
		Maria is in Vancouver, Washington, on our line for Democrats.
		Good morning, Maria.
unidentified		Hi.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		What do you think is the biggest global threat facing the United States this year?
unidentified		Global threat.
		Global threat.
		I don't appreciate, Well, I don't know getting back to Kennedy.
		I don't believe he's the right man for the job.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		So we're talking about global threats.
		While you get your thoughts together on that, let's hear from Franklin in San Anselmo, California on our line for Republicans.
		Good morning, Franklin.
unidentified		Good morning.
		Thanks for taking my call.
		Can you hear me okay?
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Yes, we can hear you very clearly.
unidentified		Okay.
		I was glad to hear at least one caller say that the greatest threat, the greatest global threat is nuclear war.
		I completely agree.
		We're closer to nuclear war than we ever have been in the history of this country.
		And that includes the Cuban missile crisis.
		And I guess if you want to provide a locus for this, it would be the goings-on in Ukraine right now.
		All it would take is one stray missile straying into a NATO country.
		NATO responds, and then we're at war with Russia.
		So let me give you an example, concrete.
		The Russians have a missile called a SARMET.
		It has 10 independently targetable warheads on it.
		Each one is 800 kilotons.
		Just one of those warheads, if it were to explode a mile above Washington, D.C., ground zero, would completely wipe out Washington, D.C.
		Okay?
		So there's 10 of those warheads on each missile.
		They have 800 SARMETs.
		Now, the United States has our equivalent.
		We have the MX, we have the Minuteman missiles.
		But I'm just trying to draw attention to the fact that on a scale of one to 10, that's the 10.
		That's the greatest global threat that we face.
		And I just, if you allow me one more point.
		One of the first callers said that he didn't like the fact that Trump was cozying up to dictators.
		Well, let's look at the Cuban missile crisis.
		What happened afterwards?
		Kennedy and Khrushchev established red lines between each office so that if there was a problem, Khrushchev could pick up the phone, talk to Kennedy.
		Kennedy could pick up the phone, talk to Khrushchev.
		Was that cozying up to a dictator?
		That's a rhetorical question, obviously.
		Thanks for taking my call.
		I hope I was cogent.
		I hope I was clear.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		You were very clear, Franklin.
		And Franklin, as well as a previous caller, referenced nuclear threats.
		The bulletin of the atomic scientists, who are known for their doomsday clock related to nuclear threats globally, had a story out on January 3rd or an article.
		The Nuclear Year in Review, welcome to the antechamber of the next nuclear crisis, saying, this past year, there has not been a single week without the reminder of the danger posed by nuclear weapons.
		Nuclear noise and signaling were evident.
		Officials made implicit or explicit references to nuclear weapons and their possible use, seeming for some observers to call almost everything a nuclear threat.
		But the biggest change this year in international security is arguably the instability now at the doors of nuclear powers and the looming possibility of a nuclear crisis.
		The country with the world's largest nuclear arsenal, Russia, is still ferociously waging its war against Ukraine and has now brought in North Korean troops to support its effort.
		Russia also updated its nuclear doctrine, expanding the conditions under which it might use nuclear weapons.
		In another major development, the United States, the United Kingdom, and France authorized Ukraine to use their missile systems to strike targets inside Russia.
		A few days later, Russia responded by using new intermediate-range missile against Ukraine.
		In the Middle East, Iran launched large barrages of ballistic missiles against Israel, an undeclared nuclear weapons state.
		On two occasions, the face-off prompted fears that Israel might attack Iran's nuclear sites in retaliation, a move that could have ripple effects on nuclear proliferation in the region.
		Going back to the risks coming out of Ukraine and Russia's conflict, President-elect Trump met with Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelensky during the campaign to talk about the Russia-Ukraine conflict and the future of U.S. support for Ukraine.
		Here's a portion of President-elect Trump's statements.
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		So we'll see how it all works out.
unidentified		Hopefully, it'll work out.
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		But if it does, we're going to work very much with both parties to try and get this settled and get it worked out.
		It has to end at some point.
		It has to end.
		He's gone through hell, and this country has gone through hell like few countries have ever like it's happened anywhere.
		Nobody's ever seen anything like it.
		It's a terrible situation.
		And I will say I have had a great relationship.
		It was very honorable.
		I don't even know if you know this, but when they did the impeachment hoax, it was a hoax, just a Democrat hoax, which we won.
		But one of the reasons we won it so easily is that when the president was asked, it was over a phone call with the president, and he said he could have grandstanded it and played cute, but he didn't do that.
		He said President Trump did absolutely nothing wrong.
		He said it loud and clear, and the impeachment hoax died right there.
		He could have said, well, I don't know.
		I don't know.
		And I never even told you this, to be honest, but he was like a piece of steel.
		He said, President Trump did nothing wrong.
		We had a very nice call.
		He congratulated me on his victory.
		He just won.
		And I remember that.
unidentified		I remember that.
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		He could have played cute, and he didn't play cute.
		And so I appreciated that.
		So we have a very good relationship.
		And I also have a very good relationship, as you know, with President Putin.
unidentified		And I think if we win, I think we're going to get it resolved very quickly.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Back to your calls on the biggest global threat facing the United States in 2025.
		Aaron is in Virginia on our line for Democrats.
		Good morning, Aaron.
unidentified		The fail of communication between all these big countries.
		No one wants to see a nuclear war.
		That doesn't make sense.
		Everybody loses.
		But if they don't start negotiating and being honest with each other, fair trade, the borders, and what's really going on around this global, around the world globally, that's going to be the problem.
		The dictators, the high elite, the well-to-do, they're the ones that's in control of all this here.
		And they're not going to let their finances be destroyed.
		China has too much money invested in America.
		Russia has too much money invested in America.
		They have Elon Musk traveling back and forth through all these different countries between North Korea and everybody.
		We need to get everybody out of these politics.
		If the president is going to be the president, he should be the one negotiating between Putin, Ukraine, North Korea, and bring it all out here.
		Because the Europeans are not going to stand by and just let this stuff keep happening.
		And they're the ones that's in control.
		So Trump needs to stand up and get people out of the way.
		He's going to be the president.
		Do what he says he's going to do.
		Confront Putin, confront China and North Korea.
		Let them sit down and ask this out.
		Because nuclear war, I think that's just the threat that they're using against all people against the world.
		It's not going to happen because everybody loses.
		That's my opinion.
		Thank you for taking my call.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Richard is in Nashville, Tennessee, on our line for independence.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, Richard.
unidentified		Good morning.
jim marrs ▲ ● ▼		The biggest global threat that we have in 2025 and beyond and has been in the past, recent years, probably since Kennedy's term, is the financial institutions, the almighty dollar.
unidentified		When the U.S. dollar fails and China takes over, guess what happens?
		You don't have the borrowing power.
		The World Bank won't loan you money.
		So when you're trying to balance your budget and you want your Social Security check or you want anything to go on in America, you're going to have to borrow from the World Bank because the U.S. government has sold out this country to foreign countries like China where everything is made-made.
		We saw through COVID where we couldn't get certain supplies, certain materials for the flu and everything, or medicines.
		Everything is made in China or some offshore account because we want cheap labor.
		We in America, I love America, but we are hypocrites.
		We want to talk about clean air and clean water and all human rights and all that, but we go to these third world countries and have these people working in Africa in mineral rights and everything that's going on.
		The global dollar, if we don't control the global dollar, China will take over and they will rule the roost in America.
		And you haven't seen anything.
		And then they will.
		And they do have nuclear war.
		Putin and Russia is nothing without their nuclear war.
		But China, that's another story.
		So wake up, America.
		You better get tough and you better get smart because they're coming.
		They're coming by the thousands across the borders.
		Thank you, Joe Biden.
		Have a good day.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Richard was talking about the relative strength of the U.S. dollar.
		Here's a story in Forbes from just a few days ago saying that the U.S., this is from December the 31st, the U.S. battles to maintain its leadership in reserve currency race.
		As the global economy faces turbulence, the United States confronts a critical financial challenge, the steady decline in the dollar's purchasing power.
		As the global economy wades through uncertain times, the United States confronts a significant financial challenge, the relentless decline of the dollar's purchasing power.
		Persistent inflation continues to chip away at the value of money, compelling some incoming U.S. elected officials to explore innovative measures to secure economic stability.
		Among the bold strategies on the table is the integration of Bitcoin into the national balance sheet, a move that could redefine the nation's financial framework.
		The potential shift also highlights the urgent need for forward-thinking solutions.
		Purchasing power refers to the amount of goods and services that a unit of currency can buy.
		And this is a chart showing one look at the way that purchasing power has declined over time.
		And this was an opinion piece in Forbes.
		Let's go back to your calls on the biggest threat facing the U.S. in 2025.
		Charles is in Syracuse, New York on our line for Republicans.
unidentified		Good morning, Charles.
		Good morning.
		So I think China definitely is the biggest threat.
		Just this morning, there's an article on Anna Sen.
		It says, hospitals overwhelmed as new virus spreads in China.
		And they talked about it being a threat probably to the scale of COVID-19.
		Indonesia, India, Japan are all warning its citizens.
		China has contributed nothing to this world except viruses, communism, and fentanyl.
		We don't need their factories.
		We can switch from cheap labor from China to India.
		And we have EMP bombs and hydrogen bombs.
		They could wipe them out in a minute.
		They just don't do that because of factories.
		India is the solution to factories.
		Get rid of China.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Tricia is in Niceville, Florida on our line for Democrats.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, Tricia.
unidentified		Good morning.
		Thank you for taking my call.
		The biggest threat for the United States and for our world is debt.
		What we don't talk about enough is the BRICS countries versus the G7, and not just debts of the United States for our endless wars, but also our individual debts that are holding back our economy.
		The GDP in China is higher, and actually, Russia's is lower.
		Our GDP is a little bit higher.
		It's not as good as China.
		So, our individual debts in this country, student loan debts, credit card debts, mortgage debts, all these debts are holding back our economy and all the debts owed to the third world countries because they can't pay, won't pay, which is giving rise to a lot of authoritarianism and is giving rise to other conflicts and battles, control versus not control.
		So, the Olgarthy and Wall Street in our country needs to understand that this country helped them produce their wealth, and they need to be proud American citizens and show us that they can cancel our debts so that we can prosper too.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Patrick is in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, on our line for Democrats.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, Patrick.
unidentified		You know, it's stunning when you look at the foundation of what we're dealing with, particularly when it comes to the topic of your discussion and discourse this morning.
		The greatest threat to the United States of America in 2025 is the United States and 2025.
		We are nothing but war proliferators.
		We have bankrupted the United States.
		We are giving handing and stealing trillions of taxes to engage in one war after another war.
		We've already overthrown another government in Syria.
		So, we have one destabilized government after another.
		And now we're talking about getting into a conflict with China, which is in economic freefall right now.
		They're about to engage in a huge, huge deployment of a bond in order to shore up their national crisis.
		If you go to Beijing, there is massive, massive layoffs across the board.
		Retail stores are closing up everywhere.
		Their real estate market is in absolute freefall.
		And so, what are we doing?
		We're pushing them towards a confrontation with Taiwan, just like we did with Russia.
		The Ukrainian war is a complete hoax.
		It was designed by us.
		We overthrew a democratically elected government because they were friendly to the Russian Federation.
		Russia should be our friends.
		There is no reason for what we're dealing with.
		You have the Ukrainian dictator who's put priests in jail.
		They've closed down churches.
		They have destroyed all liberties in Ukraine.
		And everything that we do causes chaos.
		That's the only thing we do.
		And what President Trump is going to do, and I'm a Democrat and have voted for him, is he's going to stop all of these wars on day one.
		The Israelis, we need to make it very clear to them that we are not going to be involved in more proliferation.
		And we need to make it very clear to other countries.
		Our infrastructure is literally imploding while countries like Saudi Arabia produce $1.2 trillion cities.
		We have no rapid transit system.
		That's why Elon is going to help us so much.
		We could have a national Hyperloop technology deployed across America.
		So I'm excited on the one hand, but with the global economic instability right around the corner, I'm very, very concerned.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Patrick referenced many statements that Trump and supporters have made about him bringing a swift end to wars.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Here's President-elect Trump talking about just that at a news conference last month.
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		What's happening with our country?
		What's happening with the world?
		There's a whole light over the entire world.
		Many people, some reporters in speaking to them, they said, you know, it actually is true.
		A couple of them are not necessarily friends of mine, but they said it is actually true that there's a light shining over the world.
		We're trying to help very strongly in getting the hostages back, as you know, with Israel and the Middle East.
		We're working very much on that.
		We're trying to get the war stopped, that horrible, horrible war that's going on in Ukraine, with Russia, Ukraine.
		We're going to, we've got a little progress.
		It's a tough one.
		It's a nasty one.
		It's nasty.
		People are being killed at levels that nobody's ever seen.
		You know, it's very level fields.
		And the only thing that stops a bullet is a body, a human body.
		And the number of soldiers that are being killed on both sides is astronomical.
		I've never seen anything like that.
		And rapidly, I get reports every week, and it's not even, you know, it's like just going down.
		Nobody's seen anything like it.
		It's a very flat surface, a very flat land.
		That's why it's great farming land.
		It's the breadbasket for the world, actually.
		But it's very flat, and there's nothing to stop a bullet but a body.
		There's no protection, no nothing.
		And what's happening there is far worse than people are reporting for both sides.
		So we're going to do our best.
		We've been doing our best.
		We'll see what happens.
		But since the election, I've been working every day to put the world at ease a little bit to get rid of the wars.
		We had no wars when I left office, and now the whole world is blowing up.
		But there's great optimism.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Back to your calls on the biggest global threat facing the United States in 2025.
		Lewis is in Oxford, Pennsylvania, on our line for Republicans.
		Good morning, Lewis.
		Can you turn on the volume on your TV and then go ahead?
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
unidentified		Thank you very much for allowing me to speak.
		Several items.
		I agree pretty much with everything everyone has said.
		My biggest issue is nuclear proliferation.
		And you mentioned the bulletin of atomic scientists.
		Many don't realize we're closer to midnight or the zero hour now than we were during the Cuban missile crisis.
		And that's concerning.
		The second item is we're finally hearing at least attempted solutions to many of the problems.
		They're worldwide.
		And at least we have now a president-elect who is addressing and speaking to some of them.
		And my hopes are for 2025 and beyond, the world finds a solution.
		We're one world.
		Even though we're separate countries, when you look at the shots from the moon back to the world, we're one community.
		And until people recognize and leaders recognize that and appreciate that we're just one solitary world, that's the only way to solve most of our problems.
		So thank you very much, and have a good day.
		See you.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Larry is in Salisbury, North Carolina, on our line for Democrats.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, Larry.
unidentified		Yes, a while back, I don't know where I heard it from, but I heard that Iran had a bounty on Trump's head for killing one of their leaders.
		And I just wanted to know if you could say any more about that.
		I ain't heard any more about it.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		I'm seeing a reference here for a BB.
		Actually, no, I'm not finding this directly.
		There was something reported in Al Jazeera, but this is all the way back in 2020, about an Iranian member of parliament who put a $3 million bounty on President Donald Trump's head, but that was a single Iranian member of parliament, not necessarily the country.
		I don't know if there was anything else since then, because that was all the way back in 2020.
		Were there any other global threats that you wanted to talk about, Larry?
unidentified		No, that was just the only one I was hoping for.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Salip is in Reading, Pennsylvania on our line for independence.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
unidentified		It's actually Felipe.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Felipe, excuse me.
unidentified		No, no, we're right.
		So it's just not a very common Anglo name.
		And though the population of Berch County status that Hispanic was one of the siding counties in the side era that's supposed to be selected.
		But back to the topic.
		On a global scale, I think illiteracy is probably one of our number one threat because people's inability to discern or read or gather knowledge and learn the truth or facts versus what they're being told.
		Second to that, I think fascism in our country is probably one of the greatest threats.
		And then the disparity of wealth.
		We have those with tremendous wealth that pay little to nothing into the system.
		And then you have those that are working multiple jobs barely making it.
		And so as that divide and chasm grows and grows on a daily basis, the people are getting frustrated and they have no choice but to either do something or do nothing.
		And we live in a country of people that do something.
		And that's what you've been looking at.
		The nuclear threats, the boogie ban, it's been around for since the 1940s.
		We've been scared of it.
		And it's just a tool to make us scared and make us not want to get along with our neighbors.
		We have more in common with all these so-called enemies.
		We do business with these people.
		We do business with China.
		We do business with Russia.
		You know, it's all nonsense.
		If they were our enemy, we wouldn't be doing business with them.
pete in new mexico ▲ ● ▼		And that's what I hope for, is that the American populace and the world populace become more literate, learn to just have more critical thought, and learn not to just simply accept the word of their talking heads as what the facts are.
unidentified		Very often they're not telling the truth.
		And that's what I'm hopeful for.
		Thank you for your time.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Felipe was referencing literacy.
		The OECD, the organization of economically, excuse me, the OECD countries, which are a lot of the developed countries in the world, they do polling and surveys on a regular basis looking at global literacy rates.
		And the most recent one that came out, which was their 2023 survey of adult skills, found that, among other things, large shares of the adult population in OECD countries and economies that participated in this survey scored at the two lowest levels of the proficiency scales.
		26% in literacy, 25% in numeracy, and 25% in numeracy, and 29% in adaptive problem solving on average across OECD countries and economies.
		In Chile, 44% of adults scored at the two lowest levels in all three skill domains compared to only 7% in Japan.
		On average, 55 to 65-year-olds display lower proficiency than younger adults.
		The best results were achieved by 25 to 34-year-olds, followed by 16 to 24-year-olds.
		A variety of data in this report looking at literacy rates globally.
		Jonathan is in Porterville, California, on our line for Republicans.
		Good morning, Jonathan.
unidentified		Yeah, good morning.
		The biggest threat, I think, is Obama, Danny Thompson, Hakeem Jeffries, Kamala Harris, for the simple reason that the Democrats are the problem.
		They should be investigated.
		They need to be looked up, and they need to find out everything and everyone who Obama has talked to in the past 10 years.
		And they will find out everything they need to, and he will be locked up for treason.
		I guarantee it 100%.
		Thank you, and have a great day.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Michael is in Roanoke, Virginia, on our line for Republicans.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, Michael.
unidentified		Yes.
		I listened to Biden's beef on what's the greatest threat globally.
		I feel that the greatest threat globally is the man of sin.
		This world needs to repent.
		And when you leave God out of the equation, this rap is coming in.
		For those who say that they read the Bible, study the six seals, the seven seals, school members.
		We're in the third.
		So until we turn away from our ways, our wicked ways, things are going to get worse.
		That's all I have to say.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Let's go now to Nan in Birmingham, Alabama on our line for independence.
		Good morning, Nan.
unidentified		Yes.
		Hi.
		To me, the biggest global threat to the world right now is the genocide being conducted in Gaza and the United States support of that, furnishing them weapons.
		And the whole world's not even, I mean, the world's talking about it and standing back in horror.
		And the people in the United States aren't even aware of it and aren't allowed to discuss it.
		It's really very frightening.
		Thank you.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Michael is in Canton, North Carolina on our line for Democrats.
		Good morning, Michael.
unidentified		Good morning.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Can you turn down the volume on your TV and then tell us what you think the biggest global threat facing the U.S. is?
unidentified		Well, I believe our greatest global threat is terrorism organizations.
		I mean, you know, our borders have been opened up, you know.
		And, you know, and in our reality, the world or the government or the United States needs to quit policing the world.
		You know, every time there's a war, you know, we're paying for it.
		You know, and it puts just an entry to conflict.
rick in mississippi ▲ ● ▼		You know, we're at a point in time in the world, you know, that we got countries, you know, trying to dominate the global economy, you know.
unidentified		It's a recipe for a disaster.
		You know, I mean, you know, I hope Trump can pull the rabbit out of the hat because this last administration, I mean, things are really out of control.
		I mean, we just, we can't just open our borders, you know.
		I mean, there's a proper way to do that.
		I mean, people do want a better life, but there's a proper channel to do it, you know.
		And who knows?
		Who really knows what organization or who's over here?
		Now, you remember that the terrorist attack we just had over the holiday, you know, to me, that's our greatest threat to global economy.
		All it's going to take is one irradical to get a hold of a nuclear weapon or even, you know, our irradical company, country, you know.
		I mean, that's our big threat.
		I mean, I mean, people don't comprehend.
		Now, they just think this thing is going to go away, and I hope it does, but it's going to take a lot of hard intellectual intelligence, you know.
		And I think our biggest problem in this country is we, the country polices the world.
		We need to stop doing that.
		We did it in Vietnam, and now we're doing it again in Ukraine.
		You know, I mean, some things were scared of the pot, man.
		And, well, I'm going to leave it at that.
		Okay.
		You know, I appreciate it.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Gilbert is in Birmingham, Alabama on our line for independence.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, Gilbert.
unidentified		Thank you for C-Stay.
		As I listened to the Bloomberg news report, finance, America exceptionalism, whereas on the other side of the world, economies like Germany, France, and the UK are on a skid.
		And America, you know, we front off our money with the type of debt that we have.
		My biggest threat, I think, is the rise of AI and China's threat to take over Taiwan.
		Now, what behooves me, and I agree with most of the callers this morning, is that before COVID, America was walling in the bed with China.
		What happened?
		Why all of a sudden we don't want to deal with China?
		A lot of people failed to realize that before COVID came down, you couldn't find jobs in America because everybody was outsourcing.
		And the problem now, we got a problem with China.
		Had COVID never happened, we wouldn't have even had a country.
		We wouldn't have had the economy.
		It's just food for thought.
		Happy New Year.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Tom is in Ohio on our line for Republicans.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, Tom.
unidentified		Good morning.
		I was reading an article here a while back talking about global warming.
		There was a ship left Lebanon.
		That's a small country or in the Mediterranean and was not seen again for several hundred years.
		And they found it out in the middle of a desert over in the Mediterranean area several hundred years later digging for diamonds.
		So evidently that desert so do you think this is a big global threat for us today?
		Yeah that there must have been water out there.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Billy is in Carrier Mills, Illinois on our line for Democrats.
		Good morning, Billy.
unidentified		Yes, I just wanted to call you and say that the American people don't know that we pay all the bills for the government.
		The government, all the people work for us, they don't work for each other, they work for us.
		That's what we do.
		You know, they think that they run the country, but we pay these people to run the country.
		We pay the president, the Congress, the Senate, the military.
		We pay everybody to run the country for us.
		That's all I want to say.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Ben is in Washington, D.C. on our line for Republicans.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, Ben.
unidentified		Hey, good morning.
		Thanks for taking my call.
		I just wanted to hit on the fact that China is really a big threat.
		They have openly said they're going to take over Taiwan by 2030, plus or minus a few years, which is scary.
		That's really soon.
		And we've had the warning for multiple years now.
		And I think it's just going to be a rude awakening for us, given our current reliance on their manufacturing and all the goods we have, everything we buy on Amazon, things that are in our stores.
		A lot of them come from there.
		That could be a good thing that could keep good relations with them if a conflict were to break out.
		But I think some 2030 timeframe, I think we're going to be in for a rude awakening similar to what we've seen with Ukraine, Russia, price of goods spiking.
		I think we should probably start to get ready for that now, both militarily and from the supply chain issues.
		I think there's some interdependence there on both of those.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Well, thank you to Ben and everyone else who called in for this segment.
		Before we wrap up the hour, we'll go back to that live shot from the Carter Center in Georgia, where former President Jimmy Carter is lying in repose and will be, members of the public will be able to view his coffin throughout the day today.
		Coming up next, we are going to be joined by Democratic strategist Martha McKenna and Republican strategist Mike Ricci, who will join us to talk about the prospects for the new Congress and the incoming Trump administration in the year ahead.
		And later, we'll have a conversation with the Cato Institute's David Beer for a 101 on the H1B1 program and the role of work foreign workers in the U.S. economy.
		We'll be right back.
unidentified		President Jimmy Carter, the 39th president of the United States and the nation's longest-lived leader, passed away last month at the age of 100.
		Join C-SPAN for live coverage of the state funeral.
		Today and Monday, the public will have the opportunity to pay their respects as President Carter lies in repose at the Carter Center.
		On Tuesday, his journey continues to Washington, D.C., where he'll lie in state at the U.S. Capitol Rotunda with a service attended by members of Congress.
		The public will again have the chance to honor him on Wednesday as his body remains in state at the U.S. Capitol.
		On Thursday, the national funeral service will take place at Washington National Cathedral, followed by his final resting ceremony at the Carter Family Home in Plains, Georgia.
		Watch C-SPAN's live coverage of the funeral services for former President Jimmy Carter on the C-SPAN networks, C-SPAN now, our free mobile video app, or online at c-SPAN.org.
		Book TV, every Sunday on C-SPAN 2, features leading authors discussing their latest nonfiction books.
		Here's a look at what's coming up this weekend.
		At 5 p.m. Eastern, Stanford Institute for Human-Centered Artificial Intelligence fellow Maricha Schaka, who served as a European Parliament member, talks about regulating the tech industry in her book, The Tech Coup, How to Save Democracy from Silicon Valley.
		And at 6.15 p.m. Eastern, journalist Tanahasi Coates recalls his journeys to Senegal, South Carolina, and Palestine and reflects on how the stories we tell shape our reality in his book, The Message.
		And then, on afterwards, Republican Tennessee Congressman Mark Green, author of We Before Me, talks about division in America and the advantages of putting others before self.
		He's interviewed by Military Times deputy editor Leo Shane.
		Watch Book TV every Sunday on C-SPAN 2 and find a full schedule on your program guide or watch online anytime at booktv.org.
		Washington Journal continues.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Welcome back.
		We're ready to start our political roundtable to discuss the new Congress and the incoming administration.
		Joining us to help with that, Martha McKenna, Democratic strategist and founder of McKenna Media.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		And here on set, we have with us Mike Ricci, who's a Republican strategist and also a partner at Seven Letter.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Welcome.
unidentified		Good morning, Kimber.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		So, Martha, I'd like to start with you and ask you about, you know, the new Congress has officially kicked in.
		We are in the 119th Congress.
		They convened last Friday.
		We have a new president.
		New president, round two, coming in in about 15 days, GOP trifecta with control of Congress and both houses of Congress and the White House.
		Is the GOP unified in your perspective?
unidentified		Is this what voters wanted?
		Well, it's what voters approved at the ballot box, so it's what they're going to get.
		And I think that the particularly in the House, where Speaker Johnson was able to get the votes to keep his job on Friday, you know, he had, he did, it was very close and he had to call in Trump, President-elect Trump had to make a number of calls at the end and did a little arm twisting to get the votes for Speaker Johnson.
		It just means that going forward, in order to advance President Trump's agenda on tough issues like the border and immigration and the workforce and taxes and other things, you know, the Speaker's going to have to really work hard to hold his caucus together because he's working with the slimmest of possible majorities.
		And so, you know, even if Democrats want to work with Johnson and find common ground on certain bills, then there will be a backlash for Johnson because Republicans in his caucus don't like the idea of working with Democrats.
		So it is an incredible tightrope walk for him.
		And, you know, I think going forward, we're going to see just how hard it will be to hold the caucus together.
		And if he has the leadership skills that Nancy Pelosi had for so many years when she managed a slim majority, you know, she was able to do it.
		He's going to have the help, I think, of President Trump in calling and whipping votes when he needs it.
		But at that point, it comes at a cost because he then has to really advance the president's agenda when clearly there are Republicans in the House caucus who have their own agendas and are pushing more, in some instances, a more right-wing agenda for smaller government that is really going to be hard, I think, for Johnson to hold on to.
		But for now, he got the votes that he needed on Friday.
		And going forward, there's nothing but blue skies for him if he can hold that caucus together.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Martha mentioned something that's pretty interesting about sort of the role of Trump in whipping votes.
		And is this going to be Trump's Congress or especially in the House, Mike Johnson's House, Senator Thune, who's a new leader in the Senate?
		How important will it be for them to sort of have separate identities or is it just going to be a Trump-controlled Congress?
unidentified		I think it'll look very different from the first time that he was president.
		The first time he was new to Washington, his team was new to Washington.
		And I think he was kind of kept on the sidelines until he was needed more towards the end.
		Whereas here you saw basically they just called him up, put him on speakerphone.
		He's talking to members from the golf course apparently.
		I think it'll be very hands-on like that.
		Obviously, as vice president, he took directly from the Senate JD Vance.
		So yes, I think, and I think for him, if you like, you think about this chaos, the net positive for him was not only did he get the person he wanted, but he was personally able to bring him across.
		And I think for Trump, even though as chaotic as it was and as thin as the margin is, for him, that's a show of strength.
		So yes, I think he'll be very hands-on.
		And I think, of course, that has to work.
		Now, if he is, you saw this with the spending bill a few weeks ago where he was hands-on and it took a couple fits and starts to get it.
		Now, the flip side of that coin is if he is hands-on and it doesn't work, well, he can't be blamed, right?
		So that blame, as Martha sort of alluded to, is going to have to fall on somebody.
		Mike Johnson doesn't want it to be him either.
		So I think whether it's with Speaker Johnson or Leader Thune, I think you asked you're going to see Trump very involved in every step of the process, and I think that's how he wants it this time.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		But what's going to happen then if those interests diverge?
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		For example, if you brought up the spending bill, there's a spending bill pretty much done and then all of a sudden things change.
unidentified		Right.
		And I think what you'll see this time is a lot of these negotiations happening out in the open that it'll be, you know, almost on social media like we saw with the spending bill.
		And that's why Johnson faces this sort of small group of detractors on the right who are going to be saying, you know, we're the ones who are pressing President Trump's agenda.
		We're the ones pressing for the MAGA base.
		And does Trump leverage those voices on the right?
		Does he leverage those sort of hard-right Freedom Caucus members to sort of be his voice for him to, as you say, when things diverge, does he use those members to his advantage and use them as sort of his voice on the hill as opposed to pushing them to vote for it?
		So I think that's the push and the pull you're going to see.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		And Martha, what, if any, role is there for Democrats in all of this?
unidentified		Well, I think Mike described it accurately.
		You have sort of a Republican caucus that Mike Johnson knows how they'll vote, that they'll be with him, and then he has Freedom Caucus members and others who will pull him in different directions.
		So that is a fight that he has within his own caucus.
		But then you have Democrats who have, you know, a very, very big minority, right?
		We have the numbers.
		We have a number of members who represent districts that Trump won who have said that they want to work together.
		When their interests come together, they want to be there and negotiating at the table with House leadership to figure out ways that Democrats and Republicans can work together, which is a good thing for the country when we have common interests and when we have things that we all agree on, the common ground that we can find.
		It's very important.
		The problem then for Speaker Johnson is that there are many members of his caucus who will not allow Democrats to come to the table, who do not want Democratic votes to pass their agenda, who will really give him a lot of headache for that.
		And so, you know, you have sort of three different points of power within this new Congress.
		Certainly, the Speaker has a great deal of power if he can hold his caucus together.
		But then you have Freedom Caucus members, and you do have a vocal and strong minority in the Democrats who will stick together and look for common ground where they can find it.
		And I think that really is going to be, it could be a good thing for the country if we can find issues that we agree on, where there are places of agreement.
		That's really important for the country, but it is a bit of a headache for Speaker Johnson.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		I'm staying with you, Martha, a bit.
		Since the election, the Democrats seem to have really struggled and debated amongst themselves just how they are going to oppose Trump more broadly.
		They don't really have the same kind of vocal and organized resistance like they did in 2017 after Trump was first elected.
		And there's a guest essay in the New York Times that Tom Susie, a Democrat representing New York's third congressional district, wrote.
		And among other points in that article, he says, some members of my party and left-leaning advocacy groups are now branding themselves as the leaders of a national resistance movement, reflectively opposing ideas from the incoming administration.
		That's a bad strategy.
		Resistance has a role.
		We can and should continue to resist Mr. Trump's efforts to retaliate against his perceived political enemies by weaponizing the Justice Department, his pledge to gut policies that combat climate change and protect our environment, and his threat to bring the United States back to an isolationist view of the world.
		To lead effectively, we must find common ground, build consensus, and offer solutions.
		Democrats must resist when necessary, but our general outlook must be to go beyond resistance and articulate a vision that inspires.
		Do you think that that is the right strategy, Martha?
unidentified		Congressman Suwazi, it was a surprising opinion piece, I thought, coming at, you know, just a few days during the holidays, just a few days before the new Congress was sworn in on Friday.
		And I think he provided an important roadmap for Democratic members in marginal districts, districts that Trump may have won or may have come close to winning.
		And he basically said, cool off, right?
		Let's find the common ground, maybe on issues of taxes, possibly issues that are pertinent to different districts across the country that, you know, where, you know, somebody on Long Island, where Congressman Suwazi represents, may find common ground on certain pieces of the Trump tax plan.
		You know, and there may be other districts in other parts of the country that find common ground for Democrats and Republicans.
		But he basically said, you know, it's important to stand up to Trump when he's wrong, when he's threatening democracy, when he is threatening American interests.
		And look, there will be many opportunities for that.
		I do believe we're going to have moments during this process where his nominees have to go before the Senate, speak their mind, answer questions.
		I think we will find moments in time over the next number of months where we have to stand up and say, this is wrong.
		This nominee will not work, or this idea is a bad one for the country.
		But Congressman Suazi said, wait, let's take these ideas individually.
		Let's look for ways that we can build the economy together.
		We can move the country forward together.
		And I think that is okay for members of Congress who represent marginal districts.
		I think it's okay for the leadership of the party to take a deep breath.
		We cannot deny the fact that Trump won the popular vote.
		There is a Republican trifecta.
		This is what the American people voted for.
		And we have a job to do here in standing up when Trump and the Republicans are wrong or go too far or overreach or make a move that is bad for the country.
		But we also should take a deep breath and say, wait, there may be pieces of this agenda that work for the American people and we'd be wise to take a strong look at them.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		What are your thoughts about Congressman Swazi's op-ed and also potential for bipartisanship and actually working across the aisle this time?
unidentified		Yeah, so Congressman Swazi represents the district where I grew up on Long Island and like a lot of places in the country, has shifted more to the right, more pro-law enforcement, more working class, people becoming Republican, and a lot of it in response to some of the policies during the pandemic, some of the defund the police policies.
		And I think a lot of what he's, and he was, Congressman Swazi came back, of course, in the special election when George Santos had to leave Congress.
		But I think a lot of what he's saying makes sense because a lot of it's just about Democrats listening more to those people, listening to the working class that has started to abandon them more and more.
		And whether you find common ground and whether you're able to achieve results is another matter.
		But just listening and being more in tune with these constituencies, he's absolutely right about.
		And I think a lot of that's what a lot of politics comes down to is not just and one thing that Trump does get right is not just about leading, it's about reading the room, so to speak, and reading where people are going.
		We saw this with a lot of the debates around women's sports.
		One of the more popular signs, I found this anecdote fascinating, one of the more popular signs that people wanted during this election cycle was just save women's sports.
		And so how we address ourselves and listen to people and their concerns and the anxiety about these issues, whether it's economy, culture, or of course security, border, I think that's a lot of it.
		And whether you're able to find common ground or whether Democrats, one challenge that Hakeem Jeffries, leader of House Democrats, will have is whether he lets, not lets, but whether he is okay with Democrats voting for some of these more bipartisan or more middle-of-the-road bills that Republicans try to put up is another matter.
		But I think, again, I think it starts with listening and being more in tune with these constituencies, and I think that's a great place for Democrats to start.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Well, we want to listen to you all in your thoughts and questions for our guests today.
		Our number for Democrats, 202-748-8,000.
		For Republicans, 202-748-8001.
		Independents, 202-748-8002.
		We'll start with Randy in Hager City, Wisconsin on our line for Republicans.
		Good morning, Randy.
unidentified		Yep, good morning.
ronnie in kansas ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, and morning to the world.
unidentified		Your question right now is what this administration is about.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Well, we have guests we have our roundtable guests here to talk about the new Congress as well as the incoming administration, if you had any questions for them about that.
unidentified		Oh, yeah, I do.
unidentified		That's one thing about the incoming administration.
jerry in tennessee ▲ ● ▼		You know, every president has had his own administration come in.
brian in virginia ▲ ● ▼		There's always been big fights about it, but it's up.
unidentified		The president won.
ronnie in kansas ▲ ● ▼		He won by big majority, and he has a plan.
unidentified		He's kind of turning things around in the United States.
		He's trying to, with the government and everything, the way we looked at things.
		And I do believe that this president is going to bring peace back to the world through either by, I hope it's not force.
		I hope it's through talking and communication and everything else.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Randy brings up two points I'd like you each to respond to.
		This idea of President-elect Trump having a mandate as a result of the outcome of the election, as well as what we were discussing in our previous hour, the potential foreign policy challenges and whether or not Trump is going to bring an end to a lot of the wars as he's been saying that he will do.
		Martha, would you like to respond to Randy's points?
unidentified		Sure.
		The Senate confirmation, excuse me, the Senate confirmation process, which we will be engaging in here quickly after the inauguration in a few weeks, will be a very important process for Trump as he builds out his cabinet.
		I think that Randy makes a good point that most presidents do get the nominees that they put forward are approved.
		But this really is not, at this point, it's not a question for Democrats.
		Democrats can vote against every nominee and they would still make the appointment.
		So, this is a question for Republican senators like Susan Collins and Lisa Murkowski and others, who these nominees will need to go and visit with and have conversations with and take questions from and really win the trust of.
		And so, it really, at this point, Democrats, I think we could anticipate Democrats will oppose many of Trump's nominees because they just disagree with those people being in charge of whatever department it is.
		But, you know, so I don't, you know, Tulsi Gabbard or Marco Rubio, whomever it would be, Democrats can choose to support that nominee or not.
		But the truth of it is, this is a Republican Senate caucus challenge of getting these nominees through.
		And so the conversations I'm sure are happening over the holidays, I'm sure will continue.
		But that really at this point is up to the Republican Party.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Mike, what do you think of this concept of the mandate as well as Randy's other point about Trump bringing peace to the world?
unidentified		Well, I think there is a mandate.
		Nearly 90% of the counties shifted to the right in this election.
		Black and Hispanic voters shifted to the right.
		Trump won an incredible multiracial, multi-ethnic coalition.
		Again, what we've been talking about is sort of the disconnect between a clear mandate and a closely divided Congress that has to process that agenda.
		But absolutely, it's a mandate, and I think a lot of the country is going to want to see results, especially on the economy, on prices, and yes, on foreign policy.
		Now, I think Randy speaks for a lot of Republican and moderate voters.
		They want to see us as involved in what's going on with Ukraine.
		They want to see us pull back from a lot of these different entanglements.
		Trump's approach is obviously going to be very different from the outgoing administration.
		He tends to want to speak directly to leaders, including leaders who are more autocratic.
		But obviously, things have changed with Putin over the last four years.
		Things have changed, especially with China.
		He's going to have like Marco Rubio as his Secretary of State, who's a big China hawk.
		So I think you'll see a lot of aggressiveness towards China.
		Obviously, with tariffs, you're going to see trade become a front for kind of a power struggle, a trade war of sorts.
		But I think one thing that he certainly promised is to figure out the situation in Ukraine.
		And I think people, again, are going to take him at his word and hope that that's something that he will deliver on.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Let's hear from Kurt in Mount Union, Pennsylvania, on our line for independence.
		Good morning, Kurt.
unidentified		Yes, good morning.
		I have a question for basically both the panelists.
		Do they think that the Democratic Party spent too much concentrated too largely on the culture wars rather than the economic factors affecting Americans?
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Martha, I'll let you take that one first.
unidentified		Sure.
		Thanks, Kurt.
		I do think that we as Democrats need to advance a more detailed, a bolder economic agenda.
		I do think we have to get back to talking more about how we both create jobs, raise wages, lower prices.
		We need to get back to the things that people are most focused on in their daily lives.
		And so, you know, I think that Kurt brings up a good point.
		It's about emphasis, it's about priority.
		And I think that really fundamentally, we should advance something, we should be talking more about holding corporations accountable and how, you know, corporations are squeezing everyday people, either workers or shoppers, for every last dollar in order to give more money to shareholders and stock buybacks.
		We have to really get back to understanding that everyday people, everyday Americans are trying to figure out in today's economy how to live a good life, go on vacation, buy a new car, do the things that people want to do here in the American middle class.
		And I think it's really important that we advance bigger ideas.
		We are more open to listening to people from around the country about how we, for example, advance ideas like the Right to Repair Act, where you do not have to just buy a new electronic if your computer or your TV breaks, but you can get the parts because these big corporations are not providing the parts, so we can't fix things in our homes.
		And so I think it's really important.
		I think Kurt brings up a good point.
		I think it's important for us to prioritize the economy, prices, wages, jobs in a different way moving forward than we have in the past few years.
		Yeah, it was James Carville, the Democratic strategist who also had a piece in the New York Times who said it was and always is about the economy.
		And Democrats got away from that and they need to get back to it.
		And Martha there pointed to a few very interesting policies and it's up to Democrats to find a way to tell that story and to present that agenda to the public.
		But one of the problems they had was all the, for instance, there was one of the big programs they passed was a $42 billion universal broadband program that it took so long to get the money out that by the time the election came around, no people were connected.
		And so those kinds of frustrations, whether it's infrastructure projects, broadband projects, the Democrats just weren't able to find a cohesive economic message.
		And inflation just ate them up the way that it's eaten up incumbents across the world.
		And so getting back to that and who will look out for the middle class is going to be the big question in the next two to four years on the question of, you know, yes, there's absolutely all people who believe that too much time was spent on cultural issues, but remember that a lot of times these are turnout elections and you're trying to turn out your base.
		So if you think that your voters are motivated by these issues, that's what you're going to turn to.
		It's just economy, inflation was the biggest driver.
		And immigration, too.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Francis is in New York on our line for Democrats.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, Francis.
unidentified		Hi, good morning.
		Hi, good morning.
		Can you hear me?
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Yes, we can.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead.
unidentified		Okay.
		So I want to respond to McKenna, who is a Democrat.
		I don't think we need to make any apologies about our decisions on wanting to be fair in this country.
		I think that the Republican Party has been in a position to take advantage of the level of ignorance in this country.
		It is embarrassing that this gentleman sits here and tells the American people that we focused on culture wars.
		Culture wars represent freedom.
		Read the Constitution, America.
		I'm nauseated by the level of ignorance of the people of this country.
		You want to do something?
		You want to change the trajectory of this country?
		You think I'm worried about Trump?
		I'm worried about smart people in China.
		That's your enemy.
		And the people that fall in here.
		I got a point.
		This is my last day watching season.
		I have to say that because I'm disgusted at the men calling in.
		They sound completely retarded.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Francis, your line is breaking up, but I think we have your idea.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		I'll let both of you respond to that, starting with Martha, since she directed the main point at you.
unidentified		Look, yes, and Francis brings up a good point that I would have returned to, and I think she's right.
		You can call them culture war issues, but I think what we're talking about here predominantly is abortion rights, which is very much an important part of what we need to fight in this country to return to American women.
		We do need abortion rights in this country, not just in a checkerboard pattern across the states, but it is an economic issue, whether or not women can control their reproductive freedom, whether they decide when they're going to be a mom or not.
		And so I do, Francis brings up a good point because I do think that even though these The issue of abortion was sort of sidelined in the previous question from Kurt about being a culture war issue, it's not a culture war issue for American women who really understand that, frankly, starting a family is one of the biggest economic questions you can answer as an adult in America.
		Whether or not you can afford to both become parents, whether you can afford to grow your family, whether or not you're in a situation where you're ready to make decisions about your family's economic future, your family's future from a housing perspective, from schooling, child care.
		There are so many questions that you have to answer when you are thinking about becoming a parent.
		And if you do not have the chance or the right to seek an abortion where you live, that is incredibly limiting.
		It is wrong.
		And I do believe Francis is right that we should be fighting for freedoms.
		And I think that the fact that abortion was a major topic of conversation in this last presidential and congressional and senate campaign was good for Democrats and good for the country.
		We have to continue to talk about abortion rights.
		The truth of it is, while Republicans have a trifecta and they did win the popular vote for Trump, it was a very, very close election.
		A handful of votes across a handful of states.
		This would have gone the other way.
		So I am not willing to throw out the fight for freedom, for economic freedom, for civil rights, for justice wholesale.
		I do think we need to do more to talk about kitchen table issues for American people.
		But I agree with Francis that we should continue to talk about freedoms and justice.
		And I believe that abortion rights are part of that agenda.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Mike, do you have any follow-up thoughts on some of Francis' points?
unidentified		Well, I hope Francis will continue to watch C-SPAN.
		And I think, you know, absolutely Democrats made abortion a focus in this election.
		Trump tried to navigate around that.
		He tried to say it should be a state's issue.
		We also saw IVF become quite an issue in the election.
		And Trump, we still have to see how that plays out with some of the promises that Trump made to protect IVF and maybe even expand access to it, which I think would be a very good thing.
		But even having this discussion, what is a culture issue, what is a culture war, it is important because what we're getting at is what are the priorities of the country?
		And if Democrats had won, we'd be sitting here saying maybe different issues were the priority.
		But as it turned out, it was the economy, it was immigration on the border, energy to an extent.
		And that's, you know, I think what the new government and what the trifecta will be focused on.
		But I think it's, you know, obviously sometimes we put labels on these things that are overly broad, but I think it's a good discussion to have.
		I don't think it speaks to anyone's ignorance or anything like that.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		You mentioned what issues are sort of the most important.
		Gallup did some polling on how Americans view a second Trump administration will or will not be able to accomplish certain tasks in giving different ratings for different things.
		68% of Americans think the next Trump administration will do a good job controlling illegal immigration.
		60% think that they will do a good job reducing unemployment, keeping the United States safe from terrorism.
		58% believe that the U.S. is going, this administration will do a good job improving the economy.
		And a bit more detail on that from Gallup.
		Far more Americans now than in 2016 believe that Trump will keep the nation out of war.
		That's rising 17 percentage points to 55 percent.
		By contrast, a majority by contrast, in 2016, the majority doubted he would keep the country out of war.
		And this shift likely reflects Trump's claims that the Russia-Ukraine and Israel-Hamas wars would not have occurred had he been president, and that he will end both of those quickly and that he started no new wars in his first term.
		Let's go to Karen in Orland Park, Illinois, on our line for Republicans.
		Good morning, Karen.
unidentified		Good morning.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		What's your question?
unidentified		Yes, my question is: I've been on Google and I've been trying to find out if President Biden has signed the Fairness Act yet, or is that set to be signed tomorrow?
unidentified		And that's my main question.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		You're referring to the Social Security Fairness Act?
		Yes.
		I'm checking right now.
		I believe it may be tomorrow, but I'm going to double-check for you.
		And was there another question that you had for our panelists in the meantime?
unidentified		Yes.
		If he doesn't sign it, I mean, is that, I guess I'm a retired teacher.
		And so if he doesn't sign it, will we have to start the process all over again in 25?
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		So, Karen, before I let our guests respond, I'm going to give the rest of the folks in the audience a bit more information about what we're talking about.
		And according to this article on CBS News, this is set to be signed on Monday.
		President Biden on Monday is expected to sign into law legislation extending full Social Security benefits to nearly 3 million U.S. retirees.
		Decades in the making, the Social Security Fairness Act would eliminate two federal policies that prevent former police officers, firefighters, postal workers, teachers, and others with a public pension from collecting their full Social Security benefits.
		And so that's the law that, or the legislation, I should say, that Karen is referencing.
		And it's expected that President Biden will sign that on Monday.
		Did you have any thoughts on that?
unidentified		No, it looks like it's going to be signed.
		And, you know, a lot of the times the things we do here in Washington that are overwhelmingly bipartisan like this don't get as much attention, but they should.
		And obviously, in the year ahead, we'll have some debates about the future of these programs and their effect on the federal budget.
		But as President Trump also wants to protect these programs, protect these benefits, so it's certainly a good outcome because, yes, they would have had to start all over again as we speak.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Martha, any thoughts on this legislation before we move on?
unidentified		It's a good piece of legislation.
		As Mike said, probably doesn't get as much attention as it deserves, but I think it's important that, you know, we as Democrats, we do need to finish as much of the business that we've started before the inauguration as possible.
		And it seems like Biden is working hard on a number of fronts, some that have bipartisan support and some that are more part of the Democratic agenda.
		But this is a good piece of legislation to get signed and hopefully give some economic relief to people who have really done a great deal of public service in this country, teachers, firefighters, law enforcement.
		These are folks who deserve that loophole closed to get them their full Social Security benefits.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Luis is in Salisbury, North Carolina on our line for Democrats.
		Good morning, Luis.
unidentified		Yeah, top of the morning.
		You know, I've been listening to the panel, and they make the gentleman make it seem as though that we are in some type of recession or the interest rates are high.
		But look, I saw through this holiday that there was record-breaking people traveling, planes, cars, people just buying food left and right.
		Haven't heard anything about no eggs.
		Haven't heard anything about no gas.
		But all I want to know is this.
		We talk about tariffs to China, and we had something on the making, but President Musk told them, don't deal with that.
		Now, what was in that bill, it was concerning arms, money for the farmers, which Trump caused that problem, is that we have to give welfare to the farmers now through his tariffs last round.
		But we had something else in there that was concerned about the chips to Tesla, because Tesla got a building or manufacturing China, but he didn't want that to be blocked.
		So he put a roadblock on the Democrats and American people that we still have to deal with China.
		But they talk about, like, China is an enemy.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		So, Louis, you're raising a bunch of points.
		I want to give our guests a chance to respond to them.
		Mike, did you have any thoughts on some of the points that Lewis is bringing up?
unidentified		Well, that's one of the dangers of these big bills is that, especially ones that come right at the end before Christmas, things end up in there that you don't discover until days, sometimes even weeks later and their impact.
		You know, we're only at the beginning of this debate about how much influence Elon Musk has and how much of a say or how much sway he'll have in legislation.
		I think that, you know, that's he owns a huge platform where he's able to reach a lot of people on a daily basis, an hourly basis, or even a minute-by-minute basis based on the way he posts.
		So I think that will continue.
		I don't think anybody should be under any illusion otherwise, but that is, you know, that is his right.
		He has a cottage now at Mar-a-Lago.
		He's going to be very close to the president and be very involved.
		And I think that's something that people should absolutely keep an eye on.
		But I think to his, I just want to respond to the very first point.
		I think, you know, yes, there are, of course, good signs in the economy.
		There's also the fact that people have record credit card debt right now, that their paychecks don't go as far as they'd like.
		It's hard to argue to people that, you know, you can use numbers and you can throw a lot of stats at people, but by and large, people do not feel good about, you know, where things are, where the cost of things are.
		As Hakeem Jeffries himself said, America is too expensive.
		And we have to do something about that.
		And I think people are going to be looking for results from this administration.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Rob is in Escanaba, Michigan on our line for independence.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, Rob.
unidentified		Good morning.
		I think one of the biggest issues we're going to be facing now and in the future is our national debt.
		And the only way to overcome that is to work towards a balanced budget.
		I'd like to see the Congress and the President all work together, and that's both parties, to achieve a balanced budget.
		I envision three avenues to doing that.
		One is to actually pass a balanced budget.
		A second is to say, well, the budget's not balanced, but the president has legislated the authority to make the cuts as he sees appropriate.
		And lacking recursion to do either of those two, I'd like to see the president direct his cabinet members to cut their spending in an amount that would reduce us to where we do have a balanced budget, executive order, or just instructions to push cabinet.
		I'd like to hear your visitors' comment on the viability of any of those three.
		Thank you.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Martha, why don't you go first?
unidentified		Sure.
		And I'm going to go back to Lewis's question as well.
		I think these two questions kind of go together.
		In some ways, you know, we do have, I think we are headed into a very chaotic period of time.
		Because as we talked at the top of the hour, you have in the Congress, you have Speaker Johnson, you have the House Freedom Caucus putting pressure on him, you have Democrats as well playing a role.
		And now we've touched on Elon Musk and his influence both on President Trump but also on the Congress as he communicates about what he wants to see in specific legislation.
		He can put the brakes on things.
		He can move things forward.
		And so I think tariffs could cause a great deal of stress and chaos in the economy.
		I think that the sort of push and pull of what Silicon Valley and the tech industry wants versus what the Freedom Caucus wants.
		I think to Rob's point here about the balanced budget, it's going to be very difficult to balance all of these competing interests about what people with power in the Republican Party want to see in spending bills, in cutting the government, finding government efficiencies.
		I think that that pressure and the amount of power that is distributed among different groups of people could cause a great deal of chaos as Trump looks to put forward his agenda, which we all know includes tariffs.
		And that, in my mind, I think that it's going to be difficult for President Trump to meet the expectations of the American people to the polling that you've pointed out throughout this hour.
		60% of people think that he will bring prices down and bring stability to the world and also grow jobs in the economy.
		That's an awful high level of expectations that people have for what President Trump can deliver at a time where he has a lot of different interests both in his ear, but also going straight to Twitter and making their cases to the American people and to the insiders who make decisions in the Congress.
		I personally think that the most important thing is not how people think Trump will do in solving these problems now, but a year from now, what people think about how he's done.
		And I think that is going to be a very hard level to meet.
		I think the expectations are incredibly high.
		And I think the way that he takes advice from people, the way the Republican Party is splintered right now, we are headed into a period of time where there's going to be maximum chaos.
		I do not think that a balanced budget is going to be part of their agenda.
		I think that Republicans only talk about the debt and balanced budgets when Democrats are in charge.
		We will see that the national debt increased when Trump was president last time.
		I think it's going to be a big part of what we're seeing going forward as they try to balance meeting the expectations and needs of the American people with all of the promises that they've made and the high expectations on them.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		And just before, Mike, you talk about the callers' suggestions for more fiscal responsibility, I want to just remind everyone of the numbers that we're dealing with in the House and Senate and how close those numbers are.
		We've got 219 Republicans, 215 Democrats, one vacancy because Matt Gates resigned in November, moving over to the Senate, 53 Republicans, 45 Democrats, and two Independents, Bernie Sanders of Vermont and Angus King of Maine, who typically caucus with the Democrats.
		Not only, in addition to the things that Martha mentioned that might be challenges for balancing the budget, we also have some big tax policy changes coming down the pipeline in this Congress.
unidentified		Yeah, so the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, which we enacted in 2017, much of it comes up for expiration at the end of this year.
		And if we don't extend it, taxes will go up for a lot of people by quite a bit.
		And so this does relate to Rob's point because a big part of the debate will be whether Congress and the government needs to pay for those tax cuts and pay for that potential revenue loss.
		It's a big debate.
		There's a big chunk of people who believe tax cuts pay for themselves because they generate growth.
		And then there's sort of another sort of group that's, you know, you got to pay for this so that the bottom line looks good in the budget.
		In the last Congress, the Congress just ended, House Republicans did go on record voting for paying for some of their tax relief.
		That was a big shift from what's happened in the past.
		But the debt, I mean, we're in the mid, you know, $35, $36 trillion.
		It's just gotten so out of control, especially post-COVID.
		So I think the tax, what I would, and Martha's right, I think you'll hear more of a discussion of being on a path to a balanced budget.
		I would look for the word path in there.
		But the tax debate and how we extend these tax cuts is where you're going to see the fiscal argument.
		You know, there's talk about Doge and there's talk about finding ways to limit government efficiency.
		That's important.
		But remember, Republicans also always want to try to plus up and spend more on defense.
		So a lot of these things end up contradicting.
		The tax debate is really where the fiscal budget debate.
		So if you're out there and you're watching and you're a big fiscal hawk, you should, the tax debate is where you're going to see a lot of that play out.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		I hate to go so deep in the weeds and tell me if this is outside your wheelhouse, but I've heard some Republicans talking about dynamic scoring a lot more.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Can you talk a bit about that?
unidentified		Basically, if you there's a school of thought, including the Senate Finance Chairman, basically, that if you extend current tax policy, it's not new policy, it doesn't count.
		It doesn't exist, basically, and it doesn't count against future debt or deficits.
		And if you could wave a wand and do it that way and make it look good.
		But the reality is the money is there.
		So a lot of this debate, yes, it will get very weedy between Congressional Budget Office scoring, Joint Committee on Tax Scoring, Dynamic Scoring, but you could see, you're going to see a push among Republicans to basically say, you know, we'll just, because we're just extending current policy, we don't need to worry about its impact on the fiscal.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Which effectively changes the price tag of potentially extending the tax cuts from something like $4 to $5 trillion to potentially as low as $0.
		Right.
		Okay.
		So Anthony in Baltimore, Maryland is on our line for Democrats.
		Good morning, Anthony.
unidentified		Good morning.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		What's your question?
		Yes, we can hear you.
		Go ahead, Anthony, with your question.
unidentified		Mr. Reese, Ms. McKenna, Donald Trump ran on a racist white supremacist platform.
		That is what he believes.
		That is what he does.
		Why do white Americans fail to talk openly, honestly, and directly about race in America?
		This is about race, race, and race only.
		Please, and C-SBAM, you're charged with telling the truth.
		But if you're not going to tell the truth, I'm afraid I'm not going to have to, I'm not going to watch anymore.
		Please tell the truth.
		Why do white Americans fail to talk openly, honestly, and directly about race in America?
		This is about race.
		Donald Trump ran on a racist.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so I've got your idea.
		Let's let our guests respond.
		Martha?
unidentified		Yes.
		Well, thanks for the call from Baltimore.
		And honestly, I think you're right.
		And I think that white Americans should do more.
		White people just have to do more in speaking out about it.
		And I'm glad you've brought it up.
		I'm glad you put us on the spot about it because I think that it was, it's sad and scary and sometimes sickening what you hear from Donald Trump, particularly in these rallies across the country during the campaign.
		And then to have the election result be what it was.
		It was in many ways.
		He went after black people, he went after minorities, he went after women and disabled people.
		It's hard.
		It's hard to accept that the American people gave him the popular vote after being so misogynistic and racist.
		And it's really difficult.
		And I do think you're right.
		I think we have a responsibility, white people have a responsibility to speak up against racism when we hear it and see it.
		And we should do more.
		And I think it is an important conversation to have.
		And I think you're right.
		Some of the things that were said during the course of the campaign by Trump and his surrogates were extremely upsetting and very wrong.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Mike?
unidentified		Of course we have a responsibility to speak out against racism, discrimination in all its forms.
		And there are things said in the heat of a campaign that you can't just dismiss because they're said in the heat of a campaign.
		And, you know, as Martha alluded to, you know, but again, you know, black and Hispanic voters shifted to the right, shifted in Trump's direction again, as did just about every state.
		I think every state shifted to the right.
		And why did that happen and why did his message resonate with people?
		That's something we need to figure out.
		But I appreciate the call, and I think it's absolutely a valid point to make.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		His question also, though, in the polling, voters across racial and ethnic backgrounds said that the economy, for example, was a top issue or immigration.
		But he's arguing that it's really about race, given some of the rhetoric that Trump used on the campaign trail.
		What's your take on that?
unidentified		That's not, I mean, voters, we've seen inflation, we've seen inflation eat up incumbents across the world.
		So I don't, you know, America followed that trend.
		I don't know, again, yes, you know, things get said, and that's certainly a part of it, but a lot of this was the impact of inflation and the economy.
		And you could argue that we were, you know, really following that global trend.
		So I don't know why the United States would be the outlier there.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Jerry is in Broadway, Virginia, on our line for Republicans.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, Jerry.
unidentified		Yes, good morning.
		I'd like to speak about these people concerned about Elon Musk influencing.
		Look, he bought Twitter knowing he was going to lose money.
		He made $44 billion.
		Some people say twice what it was worth.
		But he knew he was probably going to lose money.
wayne madsen ▲ ● ▼		But he did it to return free speech to U.S. citizens.
unidentified		I mean, a billion dollar, a couple billion here, a couple billionaire, that doesn't mean anything to Elon Musk.
unidentified		He's for America.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Mike, did you have any thoughts on that?
unidentified		Well, I think that's what Jerry's sentiments are a great reflection of what a lot of House Republican members and Senate Republicans hear back home, that they're grateful to Elon Musk for, you see this a lot, that for restoring free speech.
		And so I think that as much as we will be examining his level of influence and the policies that he supports, a lot of that will be inside baseball compared to this great groundswell people across the country who are grateful to him for protecting free speech and for shaking up our institutions.
		He's also getting involved in European politics now, commenting on things going on in Germany and Britain.
		So again, the scale of his influence is only, I think, beginning to expand.
		But what Jerry is saying is a lot of people feel, that he's done a lot to restore free speech in this country.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Michelle is in Whittier, California on our line for Democrats.
		Good morning, Michelle.
		Hi there, Michelle.
unidentified		Go ahead with your question.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		In the meantime, let's go to Robin in Old Forge, Pennsylvania on our line for Republicans.
		Good morning, Robin.
unidentified		Good morning, and Happy New Year to everybody.
		I'm going to say something.
		This last call from this last one, they're talking about race.
		First of all, that's why Donald Trump's in the office right now.
		The American people are sick of the race.
		Sick of saying Latinos.
		The Democrats separate everybody.
		It's them that is tearing the country apart.
		The Republicans are not racist.
		We've never been racist.
		And this is why Donald Trump became president.
		We are sick to death about this stuff already.
		Enough is enough.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Martha, would you like to respond to some of Robin's points?
unidentified		I mean, I just disagree with Robin.
		And, you know, I think that we are stronger when we represent, when our government represents all of us, a representative democracy and is important for the fact, you know, we need women, we need black leaders, we need Latino leaders.
		Our representative democracy is built so that it speaks for all the people and not just white men.
		And frankly, that's something that I think is important for the health of our country, that we have leaders who reflect our communities.
		And our government is set up that way.
		And so the Congress should be, state legislatures, Congress, we should have people running from the communities that are representative of the neighborhoods where they live.
		So to me, I think that that extends to positions of power across our society and across our economy.
		I would like to see more racial diversity, more women in power.
		I just fundamentally believe that people have really good ideas based on the lives that they've lived.
		And those good ideas deserve to be heard in the public square, both in politics, in the economy, in society, across the board of civic life.
		And, you know, I think that that's where we're headed in the long run as this country.
		And I think that's a good thing.
		So, you know, it is my hope that in the next round of elections that Democrats are able to recruit more firefighters and law enforcement, teachers, you know, factory workers, people from the service economy.
		I just think we should be recruiting more candidates from the middle class who represent their communities, and that should include racial minorities and women as often as possible.
		I think that's an important step forward in our country.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Martha, staying with you for a bit, we have a question via text from Rich in Kingsport, Tennessee, who asks you specifically, last time Martha was on, she mentioned Project 2025 multiple times.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		What happened to that and the Hitler rhetoric asking for 70 million people?
unidentified		Well, I mean, I do think Project 2025 is going to continue to be a guiding document for the Trump administration.
		And, you know, I think that we will see many of the ideas that are in 2025, Project 2025, come forward in legislative form in the next number of months.
		And that will be very important for Democrats to look for where we can work together but stand up against ideas that are detrimental.
		And look, many of the ideas in Project 2025, it was a vast document.
		It covered ideas about how we can change the economy, how we can tackle Social Security and Medicare.
		There are a lot of ideas there about programs and policies that the American people rely on and somewhat take for granted.
		And I think that if the Republicans, if we go six months from now and compare the ideas that have come forward in legislative or executive orders with the ideas that are in Project 2025, we will see a lot of overlap.
		And I do not think that's a good thing.
		I think it's important that we sort of hold Republicans accountable.
		And I think that the reason we're not talking about Project 2025 as much anymore is because now Republicans have that trifecta and we can talk about the actual legislative ideas that they're coming forward with.
		We saw that in the spending bill conversation that happened just before the holidays.
		We're going to see it here as we move forward on the budget, on the border, on taxes, on immigration.
		So now they are going to put their ideas into action and Democrats are going to have to dissect those pieces of legislation and figure out what we agree on and figure out what we need to stand up against.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Mike, during the campaign, President-elect Trump distanced himself from Project 2025 and now we are seeing several of the people who participated in that project be suggested or even nominated for some positions in the administration.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		What role do you think that project and some of the policies of it will play in Trump's second term?
unidentified		I think you'll see, you know, the people who are involved in it will absolutely want to push for those ideas.
		Trump likes it that way, wants people sort of team of rivals approach, people pushing for their ideas.
		How many, how much of those things actually make it through the policy process, go through Congress is another question.
		But yeah, it shouldn't surprise anybody that Project 2025, you know, a lot of times these groups put together plans, they put together ideas, the people behind them push for them, and yeah, they end up being, you know, at the table because, you know, a plan beats no plan is what we sometimes say here in Washington.
		So I think you'll see those people pushing for those things.
		You'll see them on TV pushing for those things, certainly, and on social media.
		How many of them actually make it to the light of day and get through the full policy process, I think, is another question.
		I do want to make sure we recognize Rob's second point, which was about the Hitler rhetoric.
		Speaking of things that were said in the heat of the campaign, Democrats were pushing that Hitler rhetoric about Trump in mid-October.
		And right after the election, it was so jarring then because President Biden's welcoming President Trump to the Oval Office and recognizing the transition of power.
		And it just said we're going to bring up things that were said in the heat of the campaign that probably didn't work out as well.
		And I think there was a lot of backlash against Democrats.
		Connell Harris gave that big speech in the ellipse with the White House behind her.
		And I think one of the things Democrats are going through a lot of soul searching about is did they focus too much on January 6th messaging and the Hitler messaging.
		And so hopefully there'll be a reevaluation of that on the Democratic side.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		It's interesting.
		The front page of the New York Times today has a headline, how Trump flipped the script and made January 6th an asset, transforming the crime scene into a platform for conspiracy theories and grievances.
		Let's go back to your calls.
		Frank is in New York on our line for independence.
		Good morning, Frank.
unidentified		Hi.
		Thank you for taking my call.
		Are you there?
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Yes, we're here.
		Go ahead.
		But very quickly, if you don't mind, Frank, we're just about out of time.
unidentified		Sure thing.
		The voter castor vote based on Trump's lies and to getting all his excuses for any failings that he might have had.
		What I'm curious about is all the promises he's made pre-election.
		How many will he fail out?
		And will the American people, in say one year, hold him accountable for it and not accept his lies or any excuses or blame on the other party or on Biden in particular?
		So that's my question.
		The last thing was, let me see here.
		And that's pretty much it.
		Thank you.
		Okay.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Well, very quickly, I'll let Mike respond first, then Martha.
unidentified		Well, I think, you know, obviously we have an election in 2026.
		I think Democrats will be very focused on taking back the House, given how slim the majority is, and they'll be singularly focused on trying to make Hakeem Jeffries the next Speaker of the House.
		And I think that's why you'll see Republicans try to get their, you know, I think they have about a 12 to 15 month sprint here to get their agenda through.
		But absolutely, you know, even as closely divided as we are as a country, you know, this pendulum keeps swinging back and forth from one party to the other.
		So, you know, we always talk about mandates and realignments, and we hope that this is the beginning of, each party hopes this is the beginning of a new political era, you know, a new era of victory and dominance for their party.
		But, you know, the pendulum can swing back very quickly.
		And I think Republican leaders need to be conscious of that, no question.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Martha?
unidentified		Yes, and Frank, there isn't anyone for Trump and the Republicans to blame over these next two years because they have the House, the Senate, and the White House.
		And as I said earlier, the expectations are very high that they are going to be able to deliver on their promises of lower prices, more jobs, more prosperity, peace in the world.
		I mean, they've really gone pretty far in making promises to the American people.
		And with full control, they have to deliver.
		And that's going to be very challenging.
		I do think Mike's right.
		Democrats are going to focus on the House, on winning the House back.
		And, you know, that's an important piece of this puzzle, that there should be some balance of power here, that Democrats are going to fight to get Hakeem Jeffries to be the Speaker, to put Democratic ideas more into the mix if we do have a majority coming out of 2026.
		It is a long road to get there, but I think we're headed for two years where we have much more Republican infighting and Republicans blaming each other for why something didn't get done than they can blame Democrats because we just don't have the power to stop them in any real way as we have when we have divided government.
		So you're going to see the fights between the Silicon Valley types, Elon Musk, and more establishment Republicans.
		You're going to see the Freedom Caucus asserting itself within the House caucus.
		So I think we're really headed for a period of time where the onus is on the Republicans to get things done.
		And I think that the pressure is on them to deliver on these unbelievable promises that they've made to the American people.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		We'll have to leave it there for today.
		Thank you very much, Democratic strategist Martha McKenna and Republican strategist Mike Ricci.
		Thank you both.
unidentified		Thank you.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		And thanks to everybody who called in with your questions.
		Up next, we're going to get a bit of a 101 briefing on the H-1B visa program with David Beer of the Cato Institute.
		We'll be right back.
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		Washington Journal continues.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Welcome back.
		We are joined now by David Beer, who is the Immigration Studies Director at the Cato Institute.
		Welcome to Washington Journal.
unidentified		Thanks for having me on.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Thank you so much for joining us.
		But before we get into our conversation, a caller in the previous hour was asking about the Social Security Fairness Act, and I did want to follow up.
		We had said that that was going to be signed tomorrow.
		It actually looks like that the Social Security Fairness Act is going to be signed later today at about 4 o'clock Eastern is what we're seeing on the schedule, and we will be covering that live on C-SPAN.
		So just following up from a previous point from the previous hour, but we are here with you to talk about immigration and in particular, H-1B visas, which have been in the news quite a bit because of some disputes within the Republican Party over what to do about this program.
		What is an H-1B visa?
unidentified		An H-1B visa is a guest worker visa, a temporary legal form of status that allows skilled foreign workers to work legally in the United States temporarily.
		It's initially valid for a period of three years.
		It could be renewed once, but if you're sponsored for a green card or permanent resident status in the United States, you can extend it indefinitely until you are able to obtain a green card through the green card process.
		So that's really the main gateway for skilled foreign workers to get a foot in the door into the U.S. labor market and start their careers in the United States.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		How does somebody qualify for one of these visas and how long does that process take to actually get it?
unidentified		Yeah, so the qualifications are you have to have a bachelor's degree in a specialty field.
unidentified		You have to be paid the prevailing wage for your area and your occupation and your skill level.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		In the United States.
unidentified		In the United States, right.
		And then the employer has to pay $15,000 in legal fees either to the government or to attorneys to file the application on your behalf.
		And then if you look at it, there's a cap.
		So there's 85,000 visas that are made available mainly to for-profit companies.
		And those companies have to enter a lottery each year, at least since for the last decade, there's been a lottery since the demand exceeded that 85,000 number.
		Even before the start of the fiscal year, the demand exceeded, and so much so that now only about 20% of the applicants actually receive a H-1B visa through the lottery.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		And these are people who are qualified and enter the process.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Now then, what kinds of immigrants and nationalities and industries here in the United States rely on this program?
unidentified		Yeah, so if you look at the nationalities of the people who are applying, it's about 56% are Indians, people from India.
		Then you have Chinese, about 14%.
		That's about 70%.
		Then all the other nationalities are a much smaller percentage, about 30% of the total are other countries.
		If you look at the industries and occupations that they're doing, it's about 80% computer, math, and engineering.
		That's what these workers are overwhelmingly doing in the United States.
		So that's where you're going to see the biggest focus of employment and discussion about what their effects are on the labor market.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		And just for a bit more information about these visas, that there are, you mentioned 85,000 of those visas.
		65,000 of those are just sort of the regular ones with those qualifications with another 20,000 limited to applicants with graduate degrees.
		So you're talking about pretty highly skilled workers here.
unidentified		Yeah, absolutely.
		So if you look at their qualifications, overall, about 70% end up with a master's degree.
		So 20,000 are guaranteed to have a master's degree.
		The rest are, you know, it's like 50-50 have a master's versus not.
		Because if you have a master's degree, you're really increasing your odds of winning the lottery and getting through the process by going on and getting a higher education.
		And many of the people who come start out as international students at U.S. universities.
		A majority of the people who get the H-1B visa are actually already in the United States and have graduated from a U.S. university and are seeking to stay on for the company that hired them out of grad school.
		And so that's sort of the process that we see many foreign students go through.
		And if they can't win the lottery, then many of them go back to school, get a master's.
		It enables them to stay in the United States and then get a few more chances to win the lottery and hopefully stay in the United States long term.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Is there a path to citizenship involved with the H-1B visa?
unidentified		Well, there is an envisioned process by which H-1B visas can adjust to permanent resident status or a green card.
		Companies have to sponsor the worker.
		So they're sponsored to be on the H-1B visa and then they're sponsored again to get a green card.
		And that's a very costly and expensive process for employers to go through as well.
		So if you look at it, only about half of the H-1B visas, H-1B workers end up getting sponsored for a green card.
		And then, you know, like I said, they can continue on in their H-1B status indefinitely until they're able to obtain a green card under the green card process.
		And if you look at the green card process, it is highly restrictive.
		So you have about 140,000 visas made available to employer-sponsored immigrants of all types.
		So it's not just people on H-1B, it's people outside the U.S., it's people on other statuses, it's international students who are adjusting, all go through this 140,000 number, but half of those 140,000 go to spouses and minor children of the workers themselves.
		So it's actually really an effective cap of about 70,000, which is less than the H-1B issues annually.
		So you end up with a big backlog through this process.
		About 1.5 million immigrants are waiting for employer-sponsored green cards right now in the backlog purely because of the cap.
		So the cap is too low compared to the demand.
		So you end up with this big backlog.
		It's not all nationalities being treated equally within the green card queue.
		So I mentioned that Indians are by far the most common recipients of the H-1B visa.
		Over half of the applicants are Indian applicants.
		But if you look at how the green card process works, only 7% can go to any single nationality.
		So what ends up happening is Indians are 50% of the applicants.
		They only get 7% of the green cards, and they end up being 90% of the people waiting in the backlog.
		And so that's why you see so many Indian residents, Indian H-1B holders in the United States renewing and being a focus of the conversation, not just because they're such a high percentage of the total applicants, but because they're stuck in the H-1B status really indefinitely.
		If you look at right now, we are processing people who applied for their green card in 2012 if they're from India.
		Other countries, it's 2020.
		And so that is a huge disparity between what the process looks like if you're from India versus all other countries because of this country cap situation.
		And so looking forward, we're processing people who applied in 2012, but there's this huge 1.4 million person backlog that has developed since then, mainly from India.
		And if you look forward, we're going to have about a century wait for new Indian applicants.
		So basically, if you're from India, you're applying for a green card today, you're likely never to get a green card, you know, through, unless there's some reform to the process.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		So one of the reasons this is in the news recently is because of discussions happening amongst members of the Republican Party as well as new advisors to President-elect Donald Trump.
		I'll point to a post here from Elon Musk who says, the reason I'm in America along with so many critical people who built SpaceX, Tesla, and hundreds of other companies that made America strong is because of H-1B.
		Can you talk about why Musk finds himself kind of opposed to some other Republicans on this issue?
unidentified		Well, if you look at his story, right, he came initially as an international student, then he started a company and went on to H-1B.
unidentified		There's a little bit of a gap in his status there that the Washington Post has reported on.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Keep saying the Post reported that he overstayed his visa.
unidentified		Right.
		Well, he didn't actually go to school.
		He just started a company, which isn't really what he was supposed to be doing.
		And so then he was able to then get onto an H-1B once he had started his company and the company then sponsored him for the visa.
		So that's his process that he went through and many other founders of companies.
		If you look at 55% of the billion-dollar startups in the United States were founded by immigrants.
		And if you look at artificial intelligence companies, 65% of those companies were started by founders.
		And when he's talking about critical positions, CEOs, other important CTOs, chief technology officers, these positions overwhelmingly filled by immigrants, skilled immigrant workers, 80% of these billion-dollar startups had at least one immigrant in one of these positions within their company.
		So extremely important to the growth of these types of companies in the United States.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		And why are some Republicans opposed to this program?
unidentified		Well, really, it's because of the messaging that they see from the America First MAGA movement in the United States about, well, we have to put U.S. workers first and that the only policy should be that Americans do all of the jobs in the economy and that any job that goes to a foreign worker then takes away from a job for an American worker.
		And that's not really how it works.
		You know, it's not just that they're founding companies, which are obviously employing huge numbers of Americans through that process.
		But also, if a worker comes in, they create value for the country.
		They produce something of value.
		And then they spend their earnings in the United States.
		And that creates jobs for Americans in other positions in other areas.
		And even if you look within the tech fields that have been so inundated with H-1Bs, if you look at the jobs that U.S. workers are doing, they tend to move up into management positions while they're managing the H-1B labor force that's coming in in more of the entry-level jobs in that industry.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Well, we are going to be taking your questions about the H-1B visa program and high-skill immigration.
		Our number for Democrats, 202-748-8,000.
		Republicans, 202-748-8001.
		And Independents at 202-748-8002.
		In addition to some Republican pushback against the H-1B visa program, there's also some on, I shouldn't say across the aisle, but from Independent Senator Bernie Sanders, who said on X, Elon Musk is wrong.
		The main function of the H-1B visa program is not to hire, quote, the best and the brightest, but rather to replace good paying American jobs with low-wage indentured servants from abroad.
		The cheaper labor they hire, the more money the billionaires make.
		Your thoughts on that assessment?
unidentified		Yeah, so they're not indentured.
		You know, they are obviously highly paid workers.
		If you look at their median income for an H1B or median wage for an H-1B worker is about $120,000 a year.
		So this is about the 90th percentile for all U.S. workers, meaning they're higher paid than about 90% of workers in the United States.
		And so it's inaccurate to call them low wage.
		If the purpose of the H-1B visa was to cut labor costs and replace American workers, you would see the H-1B requests increase when unemployment goes up.
		We see the opposite.
		H-1B requests go down when unemployment increases.
		So in 2009, 2010, there wasn't even a lottery to allocate the H-1B visas because demand went way down during the Great Recession.
		It increased again after that as unemployment went away and demand for workers increased.
		The other thing that you would see if it was all about low-wage workers is that the H-1Bs would be paid less than comparable U.S. workers.
		And we don't see that either.
		In fact, we see that they're generally paid more than comparable U.S. workers with the same level of education and experience in their fields.
		And the last thing that you would see is that they would be paid the exact mandatory minimum.
		So as I mentioned before, there's a mandatory minimum wage called the prevailing wage, which is based on U.S. worker wages.
		And if you look at what they're actually paying, they're paying higher wages than the mandatory minimum, which means that they're actually paying something based on what they negotiated, that the workers themselves agreed to, not just whatever the government mandated.
		So I don't see it as a replacement for, it's a compliment to American workers, and it increases the opportunities for Americans, both within tech and outside of tech.
		So if you're talking about the top 10% of earners, they're coming into these jobs, increasing employment at the high end, what are they doing?
		They're spending their incomes in the United States, and that is increasing employment and demand for workers in the rest of the economy.
		So all the 90% benefit by having more workers in that top 10% category.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		So I see it as a benefit to U.S. workers, not something that's going to harm them or take jobs away from their Federation for American Immigration Reform, a group that is pretty close to White House incoming, incoming White House Deputy Chief of Staff Stephen Miller, who also had a pretty strong role in the first Trump administration, has this group, the Federation for American Immigration Reform, has proposed a series of reforms to the H-1B visa program, in particular.
		Number one, prevent employers from paying H-1B visa workers less than Americans in the same roles, reward applicants who earned a master's degree or higher from an American university, require employers to demonstrate that they sought American workers and offered positions to qualified ones before turning to H-1B workers, which is something similar to the other visas for lower skilled workers,
		implement more effective enforcement mechanisms and increased investigations, including random audits, and then that the H-1B guest worker program would be for temporary workers and should not be a pathway to citizenship.
		What do you think of some of those proposals?
unidentified		Well, overall, it's objectionable because it's all about increasing the restrictions on the visas.
		A lot of it is duplicative.
		I mentioned that there are already required to be paid the prevailing wage, which is based on what U.S. workers are paid for the same positions, controlling for skill and location and all the rest.
		So I don't see most of it as unnecessary.
		You already reward master's degree applicants from U.S. universities.
		Talked about that with the lottery.
		But the last one is the one that's the most dangerous proposal is making the H-1B purely permanent and essentially forcing out skilled workers after they come in and they've been working in the United States and contributing to companies and then they want to branch out, start a new business, go on with their lives and get promotions and move on to more productive positions.
		That would be extremely dangerous.
		We talked about all of the companies that have been formed and founded or they're playing a critical role as a CEO, a CTO in these different companies.
		That would be extremely dangerous to our U.S. economy if we adopted that proposal.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Let's get to your questions about the H-1B visa program, starting with Diane in Sun City Center, Florida on our line for Republicans.
		Good morning, Diane.
		And can you turn down the volume on your TV and then go ahead with your question?
		Thank you.
unidentified		Thank you.
unidentified		Are the sponsors responsible for the Indians that are at our colleges that are causing these problems?
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Which problems are you referencing first, Diane?
unidentified		The flags outside for different countries instead of the United States.
		Well, I mean, just to back up, the H-1B visa is only for people who are employer-sponsored.
		They're not for college students.
		They have a completely different process where the college that is the sponsor for that type of visa.
		So it wouldn't be the companies that would be responsible for anything that's happening on a college campus.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Okay, let's go to Marshall in Park Ridge, Illinois on our line for independence.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, Marshall.
unidentified		Hi, good morning.
		Thank you for having this topic.
		I'm calling because I feel strongly that I think this is the next area of American jobs that are about to be shifted, but not offshore because we're bringing the people here.
		But I worked as an administrator at several medical centers in the Chicago area and witnessed firsthand as the person processing H-1B visas.
		We brought in some really wonderful individuals, very talented individuals from India and China.
		And contrary to what your guest is saying, they weren't being paid prevailing wage.
		They were being paid at a level that was akin to a graduate student.
		But I think for them, just having the chance to be in America and bring their families up in America was just a golden ticket.
		And so they weren't being paid $120,000, $150,000.
		They were being paid more like $30,000.
		And I just see if this is something that is lifted and the president and his advisors allow this to go through, this will be just the detriment to all the American people out there,
		particularly the MBAs that are getting hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt and only to find that they're now competing with individuals who got their credentials overseas and are now here essentially working for $30,000.
		So I thank you for allowing me to speak.
		Yeah, so there are different, it's important to understand there are some different visa programs.
		So mainly if you're a post-grad doing postgraduate training in medicine, you're going to be on the J-1 visa program, which is a, it's a different visa program.
		It's for postgraduate training specifically, different requirements, different rules.
		I don't know what wage data you're looking at, but they're going to be paid what postgraduate, people in postgraduate training are typically paid for those types of positions.
		If you look at the bulk of H-1B employment, like I said, it's computer math and engineering, 80% of this type of program.
		If you look at software developers in particular, that's the most common occupational category.
		That category has doubled in employment over the last decade.
		So we've had 100% increase growth in that category.
		And of that increase, two-thirds have come from U.S. workers.
		One-third has come from foreign workers.
		So we've seen a huge increase in foreign worker employment in the most common H-1B category.
		We've also seen a huge increase in H-1 or U.S. worker employment in that same category.
		So I don't see displacement.
		I see complementarity between the two.
		So U.S. workers and foreign workers are both entering the same category where there's such great demand for employment.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		One of the more outspoken folks opposing the H-1B visa program is former Trump advisor Stephen K. Bannon, who accused the tech companies that are supporting this program of doing so at the expense of American workers.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Here's a clip of him on Tuesday on his podcast, Bannon's War Room.
steve bannon ▲ ● ▼		And here, if you've gone to engineering school, you've gone, you try to get, they're going to import on a ball-faced lie, higher-skilled foreign workers, high-skilled foreign workers.
unidentified		The skills are not any different than American citizens.
michael walz ▲ ● ▼		And don't sit there and lie.
michael walz ▲ ● ▼		You can't fill those spots.
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		You go out of your way.
unidentified		You go out of your way to gun deck the entire thing so you can do that because they're more compliant.
steve bannon ▲ ● ▼		The reason they got to be compliant, in 21st century America, we have indentured servitude.
steve bannon ▲ ● ▼		As much as that was a scar in the country in the 19th century, and we're doing it here in front of your eyes, and we have billionaires that are worth a fortune.
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		They're going to sit there and look at you.
michael walz ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you're a liar.
unidentified		Show enough respect for the citizens of this country to just be honest.
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		Let's have a debate.
unidentified		You want lower wages?
michael walz ▲ ● ▼		I got that.
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		I understand it.
unidentified		It's not going to happen, but I understand it.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Now, the counter argument to that coming from another Trump advisor, Vivek Ramaswamy, who's set up to potentially be a part of the Doge Commission, who said on X, the reason top tech companies often hire foreign-born and first-generation engineers over Native Americans isn't because of an innate American IQ deficit, a lazy and wrong explanation.
		A key part of it comes down to the C-word, culture.
		Tough questions demand tough answers, and if we're really serious about fixing the problems, we have to confront the truth.
		Our American culture has venerated mediocrity over excellence for way too long, at least since the 90s and likely longer.
		That doesn't start in college.
		It starts young.
		A culture that celebrates the prom queen over the math Olympia champ or the jock over the valedictorian will not produce the best engineers.
		For two very different thoughts on this program, on the H-1B visa program, what should Americans take from this?
unidentified		Yeah, I don't really agree with either one of those explanations for what's happening.
		Like I said, I mean, the top field for the H-1B visa is software developers.
		And we've seen two-thirds of the increase over the last decade have come from U.S. workers.
		So U.S. workers are entering this field, but we still have a huge amount of demand for these types of jobs.
		And so I don't see it as U.S. workers just totally not willing to do this type of work.
		And I don't see it as a job displacement story either.
		I really see it as there's a huge demand for these types of services in the United States.
		It's a benefit to us as Americans if we let people work here because they produce goods and services for us.
		That is the purpose of the economy is to create goods and services that benefit us all.
		And so if we restrict the H-1B visa or forget about H-1Bs or foreign workers, just U.S. workers in general, if we have a reduction in our labor force, then that's going to cost us because we're going to have less goods and services produced that benefit consumers and ultimately increase our living standard.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Anne is in Bar Harbor, Maine on our line for Democrats.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, Anne.
unidentified		Hi, thank you very much.
		So I have two points.
		The first is I think listeners should be aware that the Cato Institute used to be known as the Charles Koch Foundation, and it's essentially libertarian and is for the privatization of just about everything.
		So that's one thing.
		The other thing, it's interesting to see Bernie Sanders and Steve Bannon both use the word indentured.
		But what I would like to say is that these workers are dependent on their employers for staying in this country.
		And whatever their salaries may be, the corporate culture may be one of fealty and one of compliance and one that is less critical.
		And I think particularly in fields of technology, that critical thinking and debate of empirical evidence is very important so that having a workforce dominated by people on these visas might lead to a less efficient and less effective technology sector, which would be terrible.
		You know, something like the Schedule F that's being proposed by Russell Vogt for- And you've raised a couple of interesting points.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		I want to make sure our guests can respond.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead.
unidentified		Yeah, so the Cato Institute has been the Cato Institute for our entire existence.
		We've never been the Charles Koch Foundation or Institute.
		Charles Koch was one of our founders.
		So obviously there's a connection there.
		He was a member of our board or is a member of our board, but that's not an accurate description of our history.
		In terms of the issue of dependency on employer, they're not indentured.
		They can change jobs.
		About half of all of the H-1B workers who are starting a new job, a new employment in the United States were people who transferred from another H-1B employer.
		So you can transfer.
		It is more difficult.
		And that is an issue that I completely agree with.
		That's why we need to speed Speed up the process for people to get green cards.
		Look, people don't mind.
		They're thankful for their employer who sponsored them, but they don't want to be stuck with them forever and have their career put on hold indefinitely.
		So, yes, we should speed up the process for them to get green cards and make sure that they're on an even playing field with U.S. workers.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Speaking of the changes to potential changes to the H-1B visa program, The Hill has an article talking about how during the Biden administration, this is a story from back in September, DHS overhauled the H-1B visa program with the Biden administration announcing a rule in mid-December clarifying who can apply for an H-1B work visa, that program to attract international talent that's been criticized as too complicated and susceptible to abuse.
		The new rule expands the definitions of specialty occupation positions and spells out the requirements for nonprofit and governmental research organizations to sponsor H-1B visas, saying that the H-1B visa program was created by Congress in 1990 and there's no question it needed to be modernized to support our nation's growing economy.
		The changes follow years of lobbying for a more streamlined H-1B, the workhorse of labor-related visas.
		All right, back to your calls.
		John is in Greendale, Wisconsin on our line for independence.
		Good morning, John.
unidentified		Hi, I'm an engineer.
		I've been an engineer for a long time, mostly in software and software testing and software production.
		So I've seen this firsthand.
		H-1B program is to lower the pay rates.
		And oftentimes, H-1B people are not necessarily trained in engineers, like say in India or China.
		They have some other educational background and they simply go through a code academy or some quick training to get some training that the company wants and can hire them cheaper as.
		So my other question is, or my question is: if this program is so wonderful, why hasn't it ever been applied to accountants, lawyers, directors of the Cato Institute, CEOs?
		Those all could benefit from the same labor force that's overseas, right?
		There's CEOs in Japan that could come here and be a CEO.
		There's directors in Japan, China, India that could be directors of the Cato Institute.
		That's my question.
		So it's interesting you raised that point.
thomas renz ▲ ● ▼		There's actually an even easier process called the L1 visa.
unidentified		If you're an executive of a business that's a multinational corporation, you can bring your executives over from a foreign branch easily.
		As far as research nonprofits like the Cato Institute, we're exempt from the 85,000 cap.
		So the Cato Institute can, and all other research nonprofits, can hire through the H-1B program if they have a position that meets the qualifications for the H-1B visa.
		So, you know, I personally am competing with anyone who qualifies for an H-1B visa for my job.
		Okay.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Richard is in Broken Arrow, Oklahoma on our line for Republicans.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, Richard.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hi, guys.
		This may not be perfectly organized, but I'll try anyway.
		I'm a longtime engineer, also, more of a chemical engineer.
		And in 1976, I was the first of my family to go to college and went and got a degree in chemical engineering and was able to pursue a career in that field.
		Fast forward to the day, I am teaching a two-year program in process operators for process operators.
		And every so often I run into a kid who really ought to be an engineer because his math skills are better.
		And my whole point is first-year, first-time college goers, oftentimes it's hard to get scholarships.
		It's hard to get a lot of things.
		It's hard to pay for the increased cost of college.
		Whereas a lot of these folks from foreign countries come for money and they have a lot of money.
		And, you know, and they are able to pay for it.
		And I guess my argument is they drive the cost of college up.
		So how does someone who's first time they're going to college, how do they make it into the engineering world?
		You know, I see a possible future where we're overloaded with people with H-1B visas.
		That's my comment.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Okay, let's let David respond.
unidentified		Yeah, so the international students pay full tuition in most cases and actually subsidize the enrollment of other students.
		So there have been a number of different studies that have looked at international students and their relationship to the ability of universities to enroll more American students.
		We actually see enrollment increasing alongside increases in enrollment of international students for that reason and because actually international students allowing some of the smartest people from around the world to enroll in these universities actually makes them more attractive places to study because you're doing the best science in the world.
		It's happening here.
		The best research is happening here because we have the most competitive, most innovative workforce and student body in the world in STEM fields.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		We're coming up.
		Next up, we're going to hear from Monet, who's in Nanuette, New York, who is actually an H-1B visa holder themselves.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Hi, my name is Monet.
		And I liked the last three callers that you had from Oklahoma and Wisconsin.
		And there's a guy before that.
		I forgot where he was from.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		That's okay.
unidentified		Okay.
		So everyone's making really great points.
		And I'm just curious as to why when we have these conversations, that it's not across systems, because this is really a cross-systems problem.
		I have a background in education, and I look at the literacy in math test achievement rates for American students, and it's so low.
		It's a real problem.
		Critical thinking and applying on problem-solving skills.
		It's really poor compared to like Finland and a lot of the Western European countries that are a little more developed.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Monet, before we get David to respond, can you tell us a little bit about your experience going through the H-1B visa process?
unidentified		It's just very hard.
		It's a lot of waiting, a lot of paperwork, a lot of money to get to, you know, just to get to the U.S., really, you know, to be able to launch.
		And then it's just like a nail-biting thing because I guess certain companies have more privilege.
		They must rank the company somehow.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		What industry do you work in?
unidentified		Education now, but it was information science before.
		Yeah, no, it's a great point.
		Education is extremely important part of this whole equation.
		Look, if we were producing twice as many STEM PhDs, we would just be catching up to the level of STEM PhDs who are graduating in China every year.
		So there's a huge disparity between the U.S. and many of our competitors and allies even in terms of production of STEM graduates.
		And so it is a problem.
		It is one that is something that goes through the entire K-12 and college and university system and post-grad system.
		And so it's not an issue that I'm going to sit here and solve directly.
		I would just say that when you have foreign workers who come in and contribute in these fields, it does make jobs for Americans in those fields.
		I think that's one of the basic misconceptions is that this is something that's going to displace American workers or limit the growth of the tech sector for U.S. workers.
		It's just the opposite.
		If you prevent foreign companies from hiring foreign workers in the United States, we've seen it increase offshoring because if you can't hire the most talented people, you're just going to move your operations to a different country.
		And we've seen that happen as a result of the H-1B cap and the decreases in the availability of H-1B workers.
		Companies just moved their operations to India.
		We've seen Microsoft open offices in Canada and elsewhere around the world.
		And that's a serious problem.
		It's not going to be something that's going to be resolved in one or two years.
		But it's not the case that H-1Bs are preventing U.S. workers from wanting to participate in these fields.
		It's actually the opposite.
		It's creating jobs for U.S. workers in these fields.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Well, thank you very much.
		David Beer is the Immigration Studies Director at the Cato Institute.
		I appreciate your time and expertise this morning.
unidentified		Thank you.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Coming up later on today, President Biden is going to sign the bipartisan Social Security Fairness Act, which is something that guarantees full social security for close to 3 million public service retirees, including folks in education, as our previous caller works in.
		Watch live from the White House today at 4 p.m. Eastern on C-SPAN, C-SPAN Now, our free mobile video app, or online at c-span.org.
		But coming up, we'll take more of your phone calls in open forum.
		Our numbers are going to be on the screen.
		You can start dialing in now.
		We'll be right back.
unidentified		Witness democracy unfiltered with C-SPAN.
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		On Monday, live from the House chamber, witness Vice President Kamala Harris preside over the certification of the Electoral College vote, where this historic session will officially confirm Donald Trump as the winner of the 2024 presidential election.
		And on January 20th, tune in for our live all-day coverage of the presidential inauguration as Donald Trump takes the oath of office, becoming the 47th President of the United States.
		Stay with C-SPAN this month for comprehensive, live, unfiltered coverage of the 119th Congress and the presidential inauguration, C-SPAN, Democracy Unfiltered.
brian lamb ▲ ● ▼		Brian McClanahan has a PhD from the University of South Carolina in history.
		Several years ago, he wrote a book titled Nine Presidents Who Screwed Up America and Four Who Tried to Save Her.
		His view on the presidency is not the traditional one you get from most historians.
		On the back of his book, published by Regnery History, the liner notes claim the worst presidents are the ones who want to, quote, reform unquote, the country through the power of the federal government, which usually means usurping the power of Congress or the people.
		Brian McClanahan focuses a negative spotlight on Andrew Jackson, Abraham Lincoln, and Barack Obama and others.
unidentified		Brian McClanahan with his book, Nine Presidents Who Screwed Up America and Four Who Tried to Save Her, on this episode of Book Notes with our host, Brian Lamb.
		BookNotes is available on the C-SPAN Now free mobile app or wherever you get your podcasts.
		Washington Journal continues.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Welcome back.
		We are in open forum, ready to take your calls on your thoughts on public affairs, events, and topics of the day.
		Our number for Democrats, 202-748-8000.
		For Republicans, 202-748-8001.
		And for Independents, 202-748-8003.
		While we're taking your calls, we are also following the situation in Atlanta, Georgia, where former President Jimmy Carter is lying in repose at the Carter Center, and members of the public are lining up to view and visit his casket.
		As you can see, live shots there on your screen now, and that will be going on all day.
		And that will be today and tomorrow.
		And then on Tuesday, the Carter family will be traveling to the U.S. Capitol in Washington, where the former president will lie in state in the Capitol Rotunda, and the public will be allowed to pay its respects then as well.
		Now, to your calls in Open Forum, Joe is in St. Clair, Michigan, on our line for independence.
		Good morning, Joe.
unidentified		Good morning.
		Is it too late to say Happy New Year?
		No, go for it.
		Okay, well, Happy New Year to everybody.
		I think one of the problems with the visa program, nobody wants to hire foreign workers intentionally, but there is that pool of domestic workers because in schools we have ceased to promote math and science,
		and we're not turning out engineers out of our colleges because we're loaning people money to take courses of study like art history or certain music that does not allow them to pay for their tuition.
		So we've created a bunch of different problems out of this deal.
		What we need to do is promote courses of study that allow people to get into jobs where they can support a family and can pay for their education.
		And that's about it.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Charlene is in Ucapa, California on our line for Democrats.
unidentified		Charlene, how do you say the name of your town?
unidentified		Charlene, I'm from Ucaipa.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Ucaipa.
		Thank you.
		Go ahead, Charlene.
unidentified		Yes, good morning.
		First of all, I want to say, Mr. Carter, I pray that the good Lord let him rest in peace.
		He was a really, really good president, a good person, a good spiritual person.
		He showed it through his character.
		But what I wanted to say also is that these visas, that's a bad idea.
		What it does is they're trying to eliminate people of color that have educated themselves in this country.
		They want to bring people in from places like India to replace the African Americans.
		I think that's wrong.
		They're determined they're not going to let the descendants of the slaves stand up and pull themselves up by their bootstraps, as they say.
		They always try to create ways to keep them down.
		I am a person of color.
		I'm not an African American.
		I am an American, but I'm a person of many colors.
		And so I know what this is all about.
		And I think this is so wrong.
		They've allowed too many to come in this country and buy up the land.
		Now they want to come in again and take the jobs.
		The NAFTA trade was a big trick on the Americans.
		And now this is a trick too.
		So I'm telling everyone with education and those that are not, but willing spirits to work domestically to earn a living to support themselves and their families, watch out for foreign competition in this country, especially the African Americans.
		Watch out for people from India and places like that because they don't have respect for us because Americans that brought us here don't have any respect for us.
		So I'm just saying, be aware.
		And you guys have a great day and happy new year to everyone.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Dennis is in Janesville, Wisconsin on our line for independence.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, Dennis.
unidentified		Good morning.
		You know, the Terry Gilliam film Brazil is pretty much as it always has been, as it always will be.
		And Elon Musk, Department of Government Efficiency, since 1992, I have contacted, I don't know how many agencies, and my senator, oh my goodness, his dad was a tobacco guy.
		Style.
		Since 92, I've read a story that 30% of Social Security's phone bill is 800 calls on hold.
		And it's got to be triple that for IRS.
		I had a deal with the IRS four years ago.
		Five phone calls, 50 minutes.
		I timed them.
		I almost hung up on the first one and I got through.
		And after 50, I told the woman who took my call, I've been on, called you five times, been on hold for 250 minutes.
		She goes, well, you're one of the lucky ones.
		I've made this information available to Social Security and style.
		The minute he walked into office, first thing, 800 calls automatically call her ID.
		Hit the star button.
		You're logged in, call back, a call coming back out.
		That 250 minutes.
		An 800 call is marked at a higher rate.
		That's $250 in ATT's pocket.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Hey, Betty is in Stevensville, Michigan on our line for Democrats.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, Betty.
unidentified		Good morning.
		Thank you for taking my call.
		I just wanted to add a little bit in regard to your last speaker, David Beer, and the H-1B program about companies not cutting out American workers out of jobs.
		That's really highly debatable and questionable as there's a major company called Qualcomm, and all the way from the West Coast to the East Coast, they have laid off thousands or displaced thousands.
		I'm not sure which term to use, but across the United States.
		And these are highly paid tech jobs.
		So perhaps your speaker and C-STAN can look into that.
		And I'd like to hear some comment.
		Thank you.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Unfortunately, our speaker has left for the morning, but I'm sure we'll be circling back on these immigration topics on other days on Washington Journal.
		Let's hear now from Maria in Mount Vernon in New York on our line for independence.
		Good morning, Maria.
unidentified		Good morning.
		I just wanted to say something about Carter.
		I loved him so much.
		I was small, but I remember him.
		I remember him.
		I remember my mom.
		I do.
		And I just wanted to say that.
		And I also want to say I need to give this lady from Michigan kudos because she said exactly what I wanted to say when we talked about the visas.
		Because you're talking about, you know, they are specialties and that they're coming over, but they never told us what they were doing.
		I mean, why are they coming?
		What, you know, where are they going to be working?
		You know, we haven't heard anything about that.
		And another thing, there are 40% of HUBC colleges that have 40% of graduates with engineers.
		Have they interviewed anyone?
		Have they, you know, wanted, at least do that?
		You know, I mean, it's not like if they don't get the job or whatever, but give them that opportunity.
		40% of black colleges have graduated with engineer degrees.
		So why is that not being questioned?
		And these are the things that I want to know.
		And this lady, she was right on point.
		I mean, even if it was 40% and you just get three, at least there's something, okay?
		Give them a chance to interview with these jobs.
		But they're not doing that.
		Okay, so that's what I just wanted to say.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		James is in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, on our line for Democrats.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, James.
unidentified		Hi, thanks for taking my call.
		So maybe this is timely as well because I did see that one of your programs after this is President Biden speaking about Social Security.
		Is that true?
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		He'll be signing a piece of legislation related to Social Security later on this afternoon, the Social Security Fairness Act.
unidentified		So in terms of, sorry, that's in terms of a lot of what we've heard today is the H-1B visa is lowering throughout money, and the bottom line being money and payment.
		One of the things that an advantage for hiring someone coming from another country is that the company does not have to pay their Social Security tax or a payroll tax.
		You know, as an employee, all of us have half of our Social Security, the 6.5%, paid by our employer, and then the other part, the other 6.5 comes out of our pay.
		That's a huge advantage for companies to be hiring someone from another country.
		Of course, they do pay their taxes.
		They file a 1040 NR.
		But I just see this as something that never gets mentioned, and it is the advantage.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		So I'm sorry, James.
		I just wanted to double-check what you were saying about H-1B visa holders not paying Social Security taxes or the payroll taxes.
		I'm looking at the IRS's website here, and it says an H-1B alien who is paid wages in exchange for personal services performed within the United States is liable for U.S. Social Security and Medicare taxes on such wages, regardless of whether he or she is a U.S. resident alien or non-resident alien, unless he or she is engaged in a type of employment that under U.S. law is not subject to U.S. Social Security and Medicare taxes.
		Unless there's some exceptions here, but it looks like overall they are required, they and their employers are required to pay those taxes.
unidentified		I find that interesting.
unidentified		It wasn't my experience that I was seeing anything like that as far as that's surprising to me, quite honestly.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Perhaps what you were seeing was maybe one of these to the rule.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		There's a couple of very detailed circumstances when there is an exception.
unidentified		Well, I don't know what else to say to that.
		I do know that one of the advantages of the country India has is that another point on taxes, India is the only country that citizens of India are entitled to use our standard deduction on a tax form on the 1040 NR.
		And that would be the only exception as far as getting the standard deduction on your tax form.
		And that's a pretty good helpful thing when it comes to your tax return.
		I mean, this year it's going to be $15,000.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		I'll go to a couple of other folks before we have to end the hour.
		Mike is in Lillington, North Carolina, on our line for Republicans.
		Good morning, Mike.
unidentified		Good morning.
unidentified		How are you today?
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Good, thank you.
unidentified		Okay, just a quick comment.
		We're talking, I've heard some calls about Social Security, and I really am concerned about it.
		And of course, I'm now recently on it.
		So I understand it's slated to go bankrupt within like 10 years or something like that.
		The Social Security is going to be addressed.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		The Social Security Trust Fund is scheduled to run out of money within roughly 10 years.
		That would, according to estimates, result in anywhere from up to a 17% reduction in benefits.
		But it's not that Social Security payments would go away altogether.
		But unless Congress does something, there would be a cut to benefits.
unidentified		Right.
		And that can be a little concerning for people who are just getting by on that Social Security check.
		It could have some severe drawbacks for folks.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Clark is in West Virginia on our line for independence.
		Good morning, Clark.
unidentified		Happy New Year to all.
		I graduated high school in 1970.
		Prior to that, I had to work my way through.
		We owned a lumber company that everybody worked.
		But everybody's danced all around the whole complete problem here.
		The educational system in the United States of America is broken.
		They can't even write curse it.
		In the colleges, they teach mostly hatred and going back to racism and all that stuff.
		It just blows your mind.
		The workforce, every country has their own system of hiring.
		But if you're not qualified, then you don't get the job.
		But like I said, the school system's broke.
		I mean, they're dumber down than they ever was before.
		I can't.
		Let's go back and fix their school system.
		Then we'd have qualified workers to take all these high-tech jobs.
		They could take them, but you got to teach it before they can learn it.
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Now, Clark, what do you think of some of the calls that folks coming in within the Trump administration, as well as some members of Congress, that we need to reduce the federal government's role in education?
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Some have even suggested getting rid of the Department of Education.
unidentified		That's a toss up there, lady.
		Like I said, if they go back, but you overkill sometimes is too much, and underkill is also.
		You got to find a fine balance in there to figure out who's doing what.
		As the old adage is, too many cooks in the kitchen spoils the spot, so to say, correct?
kimberly adams ▲ ● ▼		Well, thank you for your call, Clark, and thank you to everyone who called in this morning.
		Washington Journal.
		We'll be back tomorrow with another edition of the show at 7 a.m. Eastern.
		We'll leave you with more images from the Carter Center in Atlanta, Georgia, of former President Jimmy Carter lying in repose.
		Have a great day.
unidentified		Today, President Biden will sign the Bipartisan Social Security Fairness Act, which guarantees full Social Security for close to 3 million public service retirees.
		Watch live from the White House today at 4 p.m. Eastern on C-SPAN, C-SPAN Now, our free mobile video app, or online at c-span.org.
		President Jimmy Carter, the 39th President of the United States and the nation's longest-lived leader, passed away last month at the age of 100.
		Join C-SPAN for live coverage of the state funeral.
		Today and Monday, the public will have the opportunity to pay their respects as President Carter lies in repose at the Carter Center.
		On Tuesday, his journey continues to Washington, D.C., where he'll lie in state at the U.S. Capitol Rotunda with a service attended by members of Congress.
		The public will again have the chance to honor him on Wednesday as his body remains in state at the U.S. Capitol.

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