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Oct. 20, 2023 - Candace Owens
34:59
My Jaw Hit The Floor When I Heard This…
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Happy Friday, everybody. You know what that means.
Rainbow Rising wrote, Okay, the reason why I wanted to point out this particular comment is because This person says something is wrong with the whole family.
And I think that by now, if you've watched episode nine, you're really starting to understand how the family dynamic works.
And this was an episode that I really brought forth.
I wanted to make sure that we pressed into and looked into the Avery family dynamic because it's very telling.
How do you at the age of 16 get compelled to Obviously, I was so interested in looking into the mother, the father, ma, pa, the uncles, and really understanding that this was a clan.
And just to add further to that point, Olivia B. writes, I still have some sympathy for Brendan.
I think Stephen used him because he needed help with the body, and Brendan was a big kid, but the mind of a child.
If an adult tells a 10-year-old to do something bad, they will most likely listen, at least more so than an adult.
That's why Stephen didn't call an adult like his brother he calls a big kid.
Okay, I am guessing, Olivia, that after seeing episode 9, you have probably lost a little bit of that sympathy for Brendan when you hear him talking about the sexual assault of Teresa, which we're going to get into later.
But I would just like to point to, especially because it's me and I'm constantly preaching about the illness that victim mentality is, that...
Stephen is the ultimate example of having a victim mentality.
According to Stephen, he never does anything wrong ever.
And we definitely went through in episode 9, which I'm about to show you, just how far he goes to explain to everybody that it's actually plausible that every single person is guilty, but it couldn't possibly be him, including his own family.
Take a listen. Yeah. One of Stephen's more surprising allegations came in the form of a letter that Stephen wrote nearly six years after his trial.
Stephen was replying to a request by the former special prosecutor to be interviewed for a book.
Stephen wrote Kronkratz back in 2013 asking him to be his attorney, since he wasn't going to be the DA no more, to represent him to put the case against me that I murdered Teresa Halbach.
Hi, Mr. Kraetz.
You don't work for the state anymore, so why don't you take my appeal?
You know the case, and you got Candy Avery.
See, we all can get money together.
This would be the truth that Candy did it good.
How's that make you feel?
Makes me pretty mad.
Why would he want to blame it on me?
I'm 5'4".
There's no way I'm going to be able to carry any woman around.
Maybe Jody's got something to do with this too, right along with you.
She just comes over by me to talk.
Maybe you got something on my own plan.
Yeah, we get rid of him and we got it all.
And money, money, money.
And I go away for life.
She got my money, and then you got my money.
What did I tell you before?
Did I tell you that I didn't want none of your frickin' money?
Yeah. But it all comes back to you.
Bobby, Brian, Scotty, Mr.
Redont, Chucky, me, Mr.
Yonda, Officer Colborne, Zippers, everybody but him.
It's a good thing that I had an I appointment that day and I was in Manitowoc and I had an alibi because otherwise I'd probably be, you know, he'd probably swing me right into this.
I ain't sitting in here for something I didn't do.
So are you going to pin it on everybody else?
You're going to try to. But I still think it's Maniflock County.
I still think that. They got all the sources for it.
So what's incredibly interesting here with the fact that Stephen Avery wrote this letter to Ken Kratz and basically said, come represent me, is that the entire time we are hearing this theory that is being presented by his defense attorneys, that the state in lockstep with the police officers framed him, right? That was the big picture, a $36 million lawsuit.
This was all to frame Stephen Avery.
And Stephen Avery ran with that, obviously, ran with the success of that conspiracy theory being implanted in so many people's head.
Me and Brendan are innocent.
This is just because people want my money.
But then when you recognize that if Stephen actually believed that, There is no way in a million years he would have written to Ken Kratz, who would have been involved, obviously, in putting him into prison.
He would have been a part of this huge conspiracy theory, having been the person that represented the state.
He wouldn't have written a letter to him and then said, will you come represent me?
Because actually, I think my family did it.
Right? So the fact that he's even suggesting that his family did it means that he doesn't actually think the state did it.
So I thought that was extremely telling.
And it's also comical.
Obviously, we're always talking about dark comedy because we have to remind ourselves that a woman is dead at the end of this.
But it is comical that he blames literally everybody.
Everybody.
There's no person, there's no family stone left unturned.
He's blaming Candy.
He's blaming every person that was possibly, plausibly on that property.
Which again signals that he didn't actually ever believe in this $36 million narrative.
It was advantageous for his events attorneys to present that narrative.
And then of course that completely ballooned after the Making a Murderer documentary makers
got involved.
And that was the way that they were able to pitch to people that it was plausible that
he wasn't guilty.
To me, this shows that he's tremendously guilty.
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I want to now get into this clip of Kayla Avery testifying about Brendan losing weight,
something that I was very compelled on when we were shooting this documentary.
Just that someone would write a statement and then drastically change their statement.
Kayla Avery, just to jog your memory, an extremely significant character.
She's actually the one that put Brendan on the police radar.
This is why they thought Brendan saw something and he may have seen something that night because Kayla Avery was concerned about him losing weight.
But then she has this remarkable thing.
And this is really going to speak to the family dynamic.
When she flip-flops entirely, and she's still holding, by the way, on her flip-flopped testimony to this day.
Take a listen. Thinking about a time from Halloween or October 31st, 2005, until, say, the end of February 2006, about a four-month period, did you notice any changes in Brendan?
Kind of, yeah.
Alright, tell us about the changes that you saw.
It looked like he was losing weight and he was a little bit more upset.
Alright. For me, Kayla Avery is a super compelling character in all of this.
Here you have this young teenage girl and she's really the first person to put Brendan Dassey's name on the radar of the police.
Remember, they went around and they were asking questions.
To see who knew what, and she sort of randomly says that they should maybe talk to her cousin because she's concerned and he's been losing weight.
Shortly after Brendan was arrested, actually, we interviewed Kayla again, and that would have been on March, I believe it was March 7th of 2006.
Mark Wiegert and Tom Fassbender.
It was very overwhelming.
If I would tell them that I didn't know or that I didn't say that or that Brendan didn't talk to me about something, they would tell me that I'm lying and that I need to start telling the truth.
And then I just basically looked at them and, why are you trying to interview me?
Like, I don't get it.
When the police finally get her to sit down and write a statement, she says that Brendan told her that he watched Teresa burn in the pit.
But when it comes time for her to testify on the stand, she does a complete 180.
Kayla said that Brendan saw Teresa Hallback pinned up in a chair in Steven Avery's trailer.
Yes, but that's not true.
So my question then is, who or what was it that frightened Kayla Avery?
What caused her to just completely change her statement?
What's interesting there is that Kayla is saying that she completely made up her statement.
Well, it's funny then that her statement happened to align with the events that actually took place according to Brandon's confession, which the police did not make her aware of.
So it's obvious, and you can see it in her face.
I was really struck by her on the stand there that she looks scared.
And that's why I said, who or what is it that made her transform?
And that was something that we really explored in this episode.
The family dynamics, which should have been the first thing that if you wanted to put together a Reddit conspiratorial community, you would think that people would be looking into all the family members.
Making a Murderer had them thinking this was like a tight-knit, close family.
They were all just good to each other, and they were all just so sad to see Stephen go to prison because, you know, they're just, again, they don't have much money, they're impoverished, but this is a good family at the heart of the story.
And obviously you're starting to realize that That couldn't be further from the truth.
And so it's interesting that Kayla's not the only person that flip-flops on her story.
Brendan does too. And this is a very compelling call that I'm about to have you listen to.
It is a call in which Brendan confesses to his mom after he understands being arrested that you are either going to have a short sentence, maybe less than 20 years, maybe just 10 years, or you are going to go to prison for 99 years.
So do you want to come clean about what you did?
Or would you rather...
Say that you did absolutely nothing.
Are you going to stand by what you told us happened that night?
Or are you going to say that nothing happened?
And to hear this call between him and his mother, Barb, and then to see how and why he transforms was really crucial to episode nine.
Take a listen to Brendan talking to his mom from prison.
Hello? Hello, this is a collect call from...
Brendan? Did you talk to anybody?
What do you mean, talk to anybody?
Because Mark and Fassbender are going to talk to you.
After Brendan Dassey talked to law enforcement on the 13th of May, he placed a call to his mother.
But what all happened?
What all happened?
What are you talking about? But what me and Stephen did that day?
What about it?
Well, Mike and Matt came up here and they took another interview with me and said that if I, because they think I was lying, but so they said if I didn't come home with it, that I would have to go to jail for 90 years.
What? Yeah, but if I came home with it, I would probably get, I don't know, about like 20 or less.
After the interview, they told me if I wanted to say something to their family, or her family, and said that I was sorry for what I did.
So Stephen did do it?
Yeah. My belief is that he got home, and this had been talked about like a day or two before, and he went over there, and Stephen sent him back home until, because his mother was going to get home soon.
When I got home at 5, you were here.
Yeah. Yeah.
When did you go over there?
Well, I went over there earlier and then came home before you did.
Why didn't you say something to me then?
I don't know. I was too scared.
You wouldn't have had to have been scared because I would have called 911 and you wouldn't have been going back over there.
They would have been here.
Maybe she would have been alive yet.
So in those statements, you did all that to her too?
you Someone did. I believe he did go in that house, and some of that information comes from phone calls.
And I remember one specific.
His mother asked Brendan, why did you even go over there?
And when you came home, you know, why didn't you tell me?
Well, if you would have came home and told me...
Yeah, but then I thought that I would have to go to jail, too.
No, you wouldn't have. Yeah, for knowing about it.
You wouldn't have gotten much out of it then, Brendan.
You would have been more or less a hero.
You could more or less have been the hero.
And I said, well, he didn't know or he was afraid.
And what he was afraid of, I was afraid of being arrested for being involved in that.
Again, showing his knowledge of right or wrong and the consequences that could happen.
That is so true.
And we can get you out of prison sooner or you're going to have to be in prison for 99 years.
And at this point, you're hearing that raw emotion from his mother understanding what's happening.
And she asks him a question.
So Stephen did it? He says, yeah, Stephen did.
Stephen did do it, right?
Now I'm going to assume that what happens when you're in prison for a long time is that
you kind of forget that all of these phone calls are recorded, which to me is really
compelling evidence because they're just being genuine with each other.
So much of this docu-series was just sorting through all of the prison phone calls between
the family to understand what happened here.
And what happened here is Brendan felt guilt.
He confessed to what he had done.
Kayla Avery was worried about her cousin.
She confessed to what he told her, which is that he saw some things in the fire.
And then, upon realizing that he was going to potentially accept this plea deal with
his initial lawyer, there's almost as if a fire alarm goes off in the Avery family clan
where they're going, oh my gosh, oh my gosh, but what are the implications of that?
Well, if Brendan accepts this plea deal, if Brendan is being open and honest about what
happened that night, of course that's going to have a bang on effect with Stephen Avery's
So they're not only just going to have these statements from Brendan Dassey, they are going to have to say, this is actually what happened.
He already took the plea deal.
And they're going to use his nephew as evidence against him.
And that couldn't happen. That couldn't happen.
You could tell that there's a pecking order in this clan.
Stephen Avery is obviously well above Brendan Dassey.
And that really is the sad part.
Now we're going to jump into a clip of Stephen finding out, obviously, about this plea deal and essentially pleading with his sister to make sure Brendan's lawyer, who wants to get him out of prison sooner, is fired.
Take a listen. I believe Avery was manipulating this whole thing from behind bars.
He goes to great lengths to make sure Brendan does not take a plea.
Did you call another lawyer?
No! Well, I'm gonna tell you right now.
Get on it! You tell her to tell Brendan to put in for a different lawyer.
I was told Brendan last night, That is just such mob mentality.
It feels like it's a mafia.
So Stephen Avery's from prison and he's still giving them marching orders.
He's like, no, this lawyer's got to go.
This lawyer's got to go. Not because he's concerned about his nephew, but because he's concerned about himself.
He's going, if he takes this, I'm going down, right?
So that really lets you know how desperate Stephen Avery was in that moment to get rid of this guy.
And because it seems that his pleas were going unanswered, you hear Barbara there, she goes, no, we haven't gotten a new lawyer because this is her son.
Why would she want her son to be in prison for 99 years?
Obviously, she is probably very heavily weighing the option of accepting the plea deal and hoping that he was going to be home in 10 years or in 20 years.
So what do they do? Well, they bring in the big guns.
And I was so stunned about the phone calls that I was listening to This is Papa Avery.
This is Stephen Avery's father who goes by Pa.
So he gets involved.
And that is when you're going to start to perceive a remarkable change in Brendan Dassey and in the story and so much of what Making a Murderer was able to seize upon in their fairy tale, really, that Brendan Dassey was just some confused, timid kid.
Take a listen to Pa orchestrating the family dynamic here.
This is Grandpa.
Yeah. Yeah. Hey, listen, guy.
You don't listen to that Tom or Mark or none of them guys.
None of them. Yeah.
I'd like to take a rope and put it around the balls and pecker and pull them behind my truck until I rip the pecker and the balls right off.
Yeah. It's very clear after you listen to the Avery prison phone calls that the family is, I would say, primarily concerned with Stephen Avery's case over Brendan's.
Listen, they come down on you.
I don't give a s*** what they do.
You're going to have to be mad enough right now.
You stick to your goddamn guns and say nothing happened.
You know? They made me say all of this.
Tell them that. Essentially, they don't want Brendan to take the plea deal because they're worried about how that might impact Stephen Avery's case.
He chose to listen to that and not accept the pleas.
Brendan did renege and completely changed his story back to he was just at the fire and helped with the garage cleanup.
How did this all go down that they said you said all this?
Well, they, like, said some stuff and they asked me if it happened or not.
But I would say, sometimes I would say no, then they would say I was lying or something.
In almost every other criminal prosecution, when the suspect confesses, it's damn near impossible to rebut your
own words.
They said that you said that Steven answered the door all sweaty and kind of half naked,
and then he took you down the hall and Teresa was, you know, on the bed with shackles and handcuffs.
You didn't say that?
No.
Where did they get that, that you said that?
I don't know.
Oh my god.
But if I were to watch that tape, Brendan, would I see you saying that you raped Theresa?
I don't know. You don't remember saying you raped Theresa?
No. And that you slit her throat?
No. So what do you think of all this?
That it's more crap. So, there you have it.
Pa calls Brendan.
You can tell he's very much the patriarch in the family.
I've had a grandfather patriarch in my family, someone that, for whatever reason, this is the person that Brendan respects the most.
Stephen Likely, I mean, I can't confirm it, but Likely is the person, obviously, that encouraged his dad to call Brendan and put some pressure on him, and that pressure worked.
I mean, you hear the way he's talking. He sounds like the boss man.
Oh, I want to take your lawyer and tie his pecker and balls to a truck.
And Brendan's laughing and it's, okay, remember what this means to be in this family, right?
That is kind of the sentiment that you're getting.
Remember what it means to be in this family.
You keep your mouth shut, you stick to the story, and you just say that you don't know
anything.
And then suddenly, just like that, a remarkable switch in Brendan's character, where this
idea that Brendan was stupid and confused and timid came from.
Suddenly, he's talking to Anjanette, and despite the clarity of his statement of exactly what
happened that night that he gave the police, where there was no confusion, despite the
clarity that we just saw in the statement that he gave to his mother on the phone about,
yes, Stephen did do this.
He's now turned into, Brendan, I'm dumb and I don't know what's going on.
No? Did I say that to the police?
When Anjanette's pushing and going, so there's not going to be a video of you saying that you raped Teresa?
I don't know. Uh-huh.
Uh-huh. So this character that people have seized upon that was very much presented in Making a Murderer is something that was created by Pa, something that was created by his family clan.
Like I said, they operate like the mafia.
So he keeps his mouth shut.
Now he says he doesn't know what's going on.
He's confused. And people seized upon this, and it was completely fraudulent.
And speaking about not just the power that Pa exerts over Brendan, this was the huge
episode drop.
This for me, I audibly gasped.
I went, oh, when I heard this.
I heard and I hadn't even considered the dynamic between Brendan and Steven.
I hadn't considered it initially at all.
Why did Brendan go over there?
And this really speaks to why Brendan might feel that Steven Avery is like his father
and that he wants to be like Stephen Avery.
We heard from Brendan's mouth about Stephen's abuse toward Brendan.
Shocking. Take a listen.
I think Brendan was more manipulated into it.
I guess Stephen was abusive to him.
One day when... My mom wanted me to go to that one birthday party and I didn't want to go that one day.
There was a phone call that Brendan is talking to Marie and he's telling Marie that Stephen beat him up.
They couldn't get him in the vehicle so they had Stephen come out and beat him up.
Then my mom said she had and then she called Stephen and he came over and he started beating on me.
Oh my god.
I don't know if it was a sexual abuse of, but I've heard many times that Stephen was abusive to him.
It always stuck with me when Brendan said to his mom in that phone call, you know he touches us.
You know he's touched me and stuff.
What do you mean, touching you?
Well, he would get me somewhere where I was uncomfortable.
Hi, Brendan.
I'm your mother. Yeah?
Why didn't you come to me?
And it just always made me wonder, what was that relationship really like?
You know, he always touched us, man.
I didn't think there.
He used to work around with you guys.
Yeah, but remember, he would always do stuff to Brian and man.
We're goofing around.
Yeah, but like that one time when Blaine was going home with Jesper's sister, that one day when she was over, Stephen was touching his neck.
Really? Yeah.
Oh, he makes me feel sick.
I think Making a Murderer is an accurate title.
It is. But it was Steven Avery making Brendan Dassey into a murderer.
That to me is one of the more tragic things about this.
That you had a kid who followed his uncle into the gates of hell.
Did he make you do this?
Yeah. Then why didn't you tell him that?
Tell him what? That he made you do it.
You know he made you do a lot of things.
I firmly believe, and I don't know anyone could argue with it, that he wouldn't have been involved in this if not for Stephen Avery.
If Stephen were to get out on bond tomorrow, would you be scared?
Yeah. My brother told him if he says anything that he'd do what he did to her to him.
Stunning. Absolutely stunning.
As I said, my jaw hit the floor when I heard this.
What we're talking about here is Brendan having been, at least according to Brendan, sexually and physically abused by his uncle.
And so you can imagine when we're talking about making a murderer, so to speak, how that would impact him, how that would impact his relationship with his uncle, the fact that his uncle was called over To beat him if he wasn't listening or he wasn't abiding.
That is a very interesting relationship, a very interesting dynamic that's being set.
And you see Barb is, oh, I thought he was always horsing around.
And he's like, no, you remember that one time?
Or you always know what he was doing?
And as I said, it has been very clear from the very beginning that Stephen Avery is a sexual deviant.
He is. And people like that, and I spoke about this in his remarkable porn stash, how he openly talks about how he watches porn.
It is so obvious that his brain is simply not wired right.
And he is going to fulfill his sexual fantasies.
He's going to fulfill his sexual deviancies any which way he would like to.
to, and unfortunately, Theresa Hallback was a victim of that.
I know how difficult it must have been for people to watch this clip, which I'm about
to show you now, of when Brendan answers police officers about why he did this.
Because that's something that I think was difficult for people to understand.
Why not just walk away when you see a person that is tied up and helpless, and you see
your uncle come sweating to the door?
Why not just say, I don't want to really be involved in this, you know, and get yourself
out of there immediately?
Well, this really tells you where Brendan's mentality was.
And what I will say is it's that of a 16-year-old's.
Take a listen. Everybody has a reason for doing things.
What was your reason for this?
See how it felt.
See how what felt?
Sex. I don't think I'll ever forget him describing his uncle wanting him to get some and him admitting that he did this.
What was the motive of a 16-year-old kid?
Well, his motive was that he wanted to know what it felt like.
You told me that's how you do it and...
What else?
The fuels.
He asked me if it felt good.
It's difficult to stomach.
We're talking about a 16-year-old virgin, really.
And his uncle egged him on, and his uncle watched, and his uncle was proud of him.
If what Brendan Dassey said happened, If he was actually able to leave and go over to his trailer and go back, if that indeed happened, yeah, he could have been a hero.
Yeah, I knew Brendan enough to know that he knew right from wrong.
He knew the right decisions to make, could have saved her, and didn't.
Chose not to. Instead, Of receiving the thanks from the Hallbox.
He's receiving thanks from Stephen Avery.
Attaboy, that's how you do it.
He wasn't with Stephen anymore.
He was back home. And he still didn't do it.
He was the one person that could have saved her.
But he wanted to know what sex felt like.
And that's why my friend is dead.
I have very little commentary to add to that.
I mean, that really speaks to the mind of a 16-year-old.
This is a virgin. He sees a woman that is presumably naked and chained up, and he has a sexual response to it, and he decides that this is going to be his first time.
He wants to see what it would feel like.
And then you think about how much of a deviant to have his uncle on the side asking him, how does it feel?
How does it feel? It's unimaginable and I can only imagine what her family had to go through hearing this and understanding that this took place, understanding that the one person that could have saved her just couldn't get over this sexual urge, this human sexual urge.
It is so despicable and so disgusting but in the matter of Stephen and Brendan We're good to go.
Then he shouldn't be free to walk the streets because he's still a danger to society.
All right, guys. Episode 10 airs next Thursday.
And so, of course, like always, we have a little teaser for you.
Take a look. Coming up on the finale of Convicting a Murderer.
How were these filmmakers able to convince so many people that a man like Stephen Avery is innocent?
The only story they wanted to tell was one of police corruption.
They were committed to a story.
She's doing a good job.
She's doing a lot of investigations.
They were looking into things for him.
They were Steven Avery's PR team.
They convinced millions of people that they were innocent.
Emails show that they were providing plenty of direction.
That the Avery's were to look like a close-knit family.
Manitowoc County officers were to look suspicious.
I think I will forever be obsessed with the media's ability.
To turn a villain into a hero or a hero into a villain.
If they could do it to me, they can do it to anybody else.
I echo that sentiment, Coburn.
If they can do it to you and if they can do it to me, which they have done for years, presenting me as a villain, of course they can do it to anybody else.
And that's why it is so important for us to explore our psyches, explore why it is that we have such implicit trust in the media and their ability to dictate who is the villain and who is the hero in every story.
And usually you can bet that it's flipped.
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All right, ladies and gentlemen, that is all the time that we have for today.
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