An Immigration Shutdown Is President Trump's Big Winning Issue
President Trump responded to last week's Afghan terror attack by pledging a total shutdown on migration from nearly 20 countries, and new policies to encourage low-value immigrants to return home. Rich Baris thinks this framing of the issue will fire up the president's base while luring Democrats into promoting unpopular policies. Heather Mac Donald punctures the "over-incarceration myth" and explains why putting far more criminals in prison is a quick ticket to making American life better across the board. Watch every episode ad-free on members.charliekirk.com! Get new merch at charliekirkstore.com!Support the show: http://www.charliekirk.com/supportSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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I'm Andrew Colvett, executive producer of this show, and Blake Neff, one of the producers here.
And also, excited about this guest, Rich Barris, the people's pundit, big data poll.
Rich, welcome back to the show.
We had an eventful weekend.
I actually tuned in for one of your streams, rather.
It was very entertaining.
You were fired up.
And we were going back and forth on the prediction that I made instantly.
As soon as I heard this, I was like, I know two things are going to be true.
The media is going to rage.
And two, this will be extraordinarily popular.
And of course, I'm referring to the third world immigration moratorium that President Trump announced on Wednesday night, Thursday morning, depending on what time zone you're in.
It was a late message he sent off.
So, Rich, you came to my defense.
You said, Andrew's going to be proven right.
And you immediately launched some polling on this, which I think is super fascinating.
I don't know where you're at in the process, Rich, if you're done or if it's still ongoing, but I would love to hear what your results are showing.
It is still ongoing.
I don't know if you had time to check out the graph that I sent.
I sent it kind of late because it is still ongoing, but we did.
We said, you know what?
We're going to poll this right away.
And I had an idea.
You know, I had an idea of what it would show, Andrew, because, you know, you talk to enough voters, you know what they want after a while.
But we went in the field and this thing has not pulled below a majority for the three days we've been in the field.
Among likely voters, it's actually higher, just to show people.
Yeah, I was just going to tell them this is where we're at with it right now.
I mean, you're looking at about a third who opposes it combined.
And you can tell who they are, right?
We're talking about the left.
And by the way, there are significant chunks of Democrats who support this.
But overall, independents and Republicans, Andrew, this thing is popular.
Among likely voters, it's actually 57%.
It's plus 24.
So, I mean, we just don't see policies this popular very often anymore in this country.
We're so polarized that when you talk about issues like voter ID, things like that, you'll get up to, you know, 70% plus.
But we just, we, we have a hard time in this country, unfortunately.
It's just the state of our politics.
We have a hard time reaching consensus like this on anything.
And this is a consensus.
It's enormously popular.
Well, and look, you know, two things that stand out to me is you've got 10% apparently that are like unsure.
I don't know what you're unsure about.
But you look at strongly support versus strongly opposed.
Strongly support is at 34.1%.
It's that big piece of the pie right there.
The strongly opposed is only 19%, Rich.
That's yes.
I mean, you have a way bigger core of support for this pop this policy that supports it versus those who oppose it.
That to me is a telltale sign that this is going to be massively, massively energizing for the base, which I bring up, Rich, because you and I, last time you were on, we talked about how there was too much focus on foreign policy, there was too much focus on things that were abroad and abstract.
People wanted to focus on domestic, and it was like in one fell swoop, in one tweet, it was like the grab bag of goodie bags for the MAGA movement.
And it's like instantly, President Trump is a hero again on X and all the other social platforms with the base.
Month can do wonders in politics, can it?
I mean, seriously.
And it's interesting too, because these very same people, you know, we always talk about Americans being generous.
These very same people are also willing to support a host of other things.
But when it comes to third world immigration, it is popular among everybody.
But also, you know, when it comes to that enthusiasm, that's what it comes for me.
I saw this as a just a shot in the left cheek for MAGA.
You can see it in the extremely enthusiastic numbers over the last two days.
The right still trails Democrats as far as excitement to vote, but the gap closed.
I haven't seen it close in a long time, Andrew.
It's weeks and weeks and weeks.
Democrats have said they are more likely to vote.
They're more extremely enthusiastic about voting.
And for the first time, we saw this thing shoot up among Republicans.
They're almost at parity now with likely to vote, which I'll be honest with you.
I don't think will hold unless we continuously see more stuff.
I think it's probably likely that Democrats will end up, you know, being more certain.
That's the nature of the coalition these days.
But as far as that excitement number, Republicans shot up like eight points, Andrew, just from just from this.
I mean, that's a wow.
It says a lot.
They've been trailing badly.
Say that again.
We shot our enthusiasm metric in your polling shot up eight points from this tweet alone.
It did.
And they've been trailing badly by double digits for a long time.
So we'll say, you know, how likely are you to vote in the 26 midterms?
And now, how enthusiastic are you for everything from extremely, very, moderately, slightly, not at all, right?
And on that extremely number, that's the only thing we ever care about because even when people say they're very enthusiastic, if you're not picking extremely, you're not enthusiastic, right?
I mean, just it's just, and by the way, on that 10%, what are you unsure about?
They're unsure whether they want to tell the pollster the truth or not.
That's what they're unsure, but they're not really unsure, most of those people.
They just don't want to go on record saying, yeah, I want to cut off immigration from third world countries, right?
I mean, it's just, that's what it comes down to.
People are still, you know, uncomfortable with some of these talking to people, perfect strangers, pollsters, about their opinions on some of these issues.
They want to look like they're generous.
They want to look like they're decent.
But when you get when you're in private with them and they have anonymity, then I'm telling you, they have a totally different point of view.
They just don't want to tell the pollster that it really is interesting.
I love to think of politics almost as like a battle in the military where you have to occupy good terrain and you want to be on defense versus offense.
And it occurs to me on the immigration issue, how much you can totally reframe it in your favor with basically the exact same policies if you're making it so the big debate that they're attacking you over is, oh, he's keeping out people from the third world versus, oh, here's these videos of him.
They're deporting people.
Here's this crying child.
And it's really mean.
And you can be doing the exact same things, but if you make it so the contested ground is, I don't want to let in welfare charges from the third world, I suspect the Democrats won't be able to help themselves from attacking him over it.
And yet it's as Rich says, it's going to be a big winner.
No, you're right.
It's funny because President Trump is at his strongest when he is playing offense on immigration and law and order, crime.
So by the way, he's getting the memo, Rich, by the way.
167, throw it up.
President Trump truthed social tweet from me and then a tweet from Jack Pasovic saying Trump's moratorium on third world migration will be his most popular policy to date.
And he truthed that, which I was very honored by.
And I think it's important we get the message out that we can play offense on this issue.
Not only is it the best thing for the country, not only is it wildly popular with the base, but it will increase your enthusiasm numbers.
This is like such a shot in the arm.
It's truly remarkable.
I'm so thrilled to see that A, the prediction was right, but B, that our enthusiasm numbers are going through the roof again because this is what people voted for in November.
They wanted to see this constant, you know, we call it the one switch that fixes all that ails you, right, in our country.
So many issues from cultural cohesion, the division, the welfare charges, fraud, the cultural displacement that most people just feel in their communities now.
They don't feel like they're living around their neighbors or people that they trust or know or relate to anymore.
And this has all happened within basically 20 years.
And the demographic and the birth rates of native-born versus foreign-born citizens, it's not looking good either.
So this is going to have an echo boom after the fact.
And so I just, Rich, where else do you want to see the president go on this?
What needs to happen next to lock in these gains?
Yeah, I think this message, I think you can drive support for this higher, Andrew.
I do.
I mean, we had only a few days of this conversation so far.
It is in the wake of this tragic event, too.
So, you know, I think that Americans take a couple of days to process this.
You can beat this like a dead horse.
Beat it like a dead horse.
Because in truth, Americans do see immigration out of control, a completely broken immigration system as the root of a lot of our problems, right?
At the root of a lot of our problems.
So you just said, this is what I voted for.
And we don't just interview people, you know, telling them to take the questionnaire and we just want, you know, your numbers and we're done with you.
If they are willing to, we want to speak to them and have them elaborate on why they, you know, they feel the way they do right now.
And you just echoed a ton of people that said just that.
Like, this is what I voted for.
This is what I voted for.
Amen.
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We have Rich Barris, the People's Pundit, Big Data Poll.
Rich, you said another, I guess, poll that you're conducting that is pretty discouraging, but it's exactly what Charlie had predicted: that we are at a fork in the road.
Culturally, politically, where on the one side we have Mangionism, we have Mamdaniism, on the other side, we have MAGA.
One is national, populist, conservative, renewal, revitalization of the nation state.
The other is deep into socialism.
And you're doing some polling on people that identify as Democrats, and you dug even deeper, which I think is really important.
This is cut image 165.
Please throw this up.
And you have that about 60% of this party now self-identifies as either a Democrat socialist or just a pure socialist.
Explain this graph that we're looking at here, Rich.
Okay, we have to drop the pretense here.
This is for people who don't know.
Maybe they're listening on radio.
We've been asking just the same way that we ask Republicans: do you identify as America first or do you identify with traditional Republicanism?
We also ask Democrats whether or not they identify as a traditional liberal, Democratic socialist, or socialist.
And we have got to drop the pretense that the Democratic Party still believes in things like traditional liberalism.
They don't.
Andrew, that number as a traditional liberal has collapsed.
And the amount, the acceleration in this trend is unbelievable.
But this is a party of socialists now.
They are.
And we have to stop pretending that there's still such a thing as a moderate Democrat.
They're not.
Even in our numbers with ideology, they'll call themselves socialists and then describe ideologically as a moderate.
Come on, that's not, that's just not reality.
Nowhere on the American political spectrum is a moderate a socialist, right?
That is somebody who is far, far left.
But the truth is, they don't even view themselves as liberal.
So the liberal number for ideology has hung around 22 to 25% for a long time, as this number has skyrocketed.
So, guys, half the party is going to identify with Democratic socialism.
And sometimes that number with socialists gets as big as 10%.
So, yeah, you're looking at six in 10 Democrats who identify with some form of socialism.
And that's the reality, right?
And you did see Republicans, you know, what did they do?
They passed a bill censuring socialism or something like that.
I mean, we have to have just a more, I think we need to have a more open conversation because we're going to end up with either right-wing populism in the form of MAGA, or we're going to end up with what is always sold as a left-wing populism, but it's not.
There's nothing populist about it.
It doesn't end with populism.
It ends with democide.
It literally took the most human souls of anything in the 20th century.
War couldn't keep up with democide from socialist governments in the 20th century, folks.
There were more people killed by governments of left-wing fanatics than there were people who died in the great wars combined.
I mean, this is serious.
Yeah, it's very serious.
But Blake, I throw to you on this.
How much of this is just like uneducated liberals basically going, oh, I want Norway and Sweden?
I don't think it is uneducated.
I think a lot of it is, it's a rise of, frankly, I think it's the third worldification of America.
And it's one of the bleakest ones because you look at why are a lot of countries just chronically not able to get it together.
And a lot of it is because it actually takes a lot of discipline and a lot of patience to make good economic policies work.
A lot of them are counterintuitive, whereas socialism has a lot, like a lot of socialist impulses have a very innate appeal to people.
It kind of appeals to the morality of like the village base moralities.
Yeah, the base morality.
Not based, base, raw instincts.
And so you get what happens.
Argentina before Malay, that was a good example where they just had a lot of very backwards policies that it was very difficult for them to break out of.
And they made themselves a poor country.
And this happens in a lot of Latin American countries.
They'll grow, grow, grow, grow.
Oh, actually, it's time for us to do socialism.
And they screw it all up.
Mexico did this repeatedly.
And it's really hard to get rid of that.
Mexico had collective farms throughout the 20th century.
Every economist will tell you rent control, incredibly dumb idea.
It makes New York vastly more expensive to live in.
And Ma'am Donnie just ran on, I'm going to do a stronger rent control, a rent freeze.
All their housing is going to, all their problems will get worse with that.
It'll be popular.
Yeah.
Rich, do we have any idea when you're polling this, like how many are foreign-born or immigrants that you're doing?
We do.
And I actually just sent it to you, but let me read it right off the screen because we do ask whether or not you're first generation, second generation, third generation, or you are foreign-born.
Among those who are second and third generation, those numbers are much lower.
Among those who are not U.S. born, they're foreign-born, which I just sent to you, it's much higher.
So Democratic, well, not much, but it's higher.
Democratic socialism identification rises to 60% among those who are foreign born.
And socialism, straight up socialism, rises to 12%.
So yes.
So I had a feeling Blake was on to something.
I just needed a second to go through the selector.
It's literally a dropdown.
You know, give me all of those who are just foreign born.
And there it is.
And the reason we ask that, we don't always throw this in all of our polling.
We will from now on because we're, I don't, we, we did for years.
I don't, I honestly don't know why we stopped.
But when we poll something about immigration specifically, we'll make sure it's in there.
So we were very lucky to have this in there and be able to answer that question.
So Rich, you're basically saying we're importing a bunch of people that want to take from productive members of society, tax them into oblivion, wider, richer neighborhoods, if you will, to quote Mamdani's political platform.
And they basically want to destroy the growth prospects of the United States.
Am I reading that right, Blake?
Is that about it?
That's what the data is saying.
I mean, that's what it comes down to.
It's also predictable and frustrating, Rich.
That's what makes me so annoyed at this.
We do need an immigration moratorium.
We do need remigration.
We need to get these people out.
We need to make sure that their 15 children are not indoctrinated in the same ideologies and filling up our classrooms with this garbage.
We got a quick question from Chris in our emails.
He says, please define the term democratic socialism.
And I will tell you what it is.
It is socialism, but they call it democratic to try to say, we're not the communists who are going to shoot you.
It's got a better brain.
It's got a better brain.
They're like, I still support democracy.
I don't support the dictatorship of the proletariat, basically.
Unfortunately, we're kind of coming big circle.
What did Turning Point USA start with?
It was Charlie saying socialism sucks on college campuses because, you know, Obama's America and all of that.
And we're looping back around to that.
It is important to remind people, socialism does suck.
It is very bad.
It has a remarkable track record of failure and a remarkable track record of coming back despite that.
Charlie was right again.
Rich Barris, thank you, my friend.
Excellent stuff.
We'll see you next time, my friend.
All the best, guys.
Take care.
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Heather McDonald joins us, the great Heather McDonald.
She is one of the, I think, the absolute experts on what would be like on merit-based culture, on incarceration rates, on crime statistics.
And she's a contributing editor of the City Journal and author of When Race Trumps Marriage.
Heather McDonald, welcome back to the show.
Thank you so much, Andrew, and thank you for carrying on the Turning Point USA Legacy with such bravado and insights.
I really appreciate it.
Well, thank you, Heather.
Well, I'm just so honored to have you.
You're absolutely one of Charlie's most favorited guests ever.
I think.
I mean, there's not enough adjectives and superlatives to throw at you.
You know, he loved you, and your insights made a profound impact on this show and on Charlie's work and mission as well.
And I hope you internalize that and know that, Heather.
I'm absolutely honored to know that.
I wasn't aware, and so that means a huge amount to me.
Oh, yeah.
I'll never forget, actually, this is a fun story.
When everything happened with the BLM riots, Charlie, you know, we were sort of locked down still with COVID, and Charlie was like, We're going five days a week.
So that was actually when the show first went to five days a week, was right after the COVID lockdowns.
And you came on the show in those first few weeks and just dropped a ton of science on everybody about crime stats and how they were, you know, basically corrupt.
And we wrote them all down and we just started repeating them and repeating them and repeating them.
And it became a major theme of the show in those early days.
So thank you for your contribution then, Heather.
So, Heather, I sent you two questions over the holiday weekend, and you wrote back very graciously pretty quickly.
And this came off the back of this story in Chicago.
The first question was, you know, do we have an under-incarceration problem?
And I was, of course, inspired by Lawrence Reed, who set a woman on fire.
And then we find out there were 40 prior arrests, or maybe even 72.
I'm seeing conflicting reporting there on just how many times this gentleman had been arrested.
And of course, there was the Irina Zarutska story out of Charlotte, who was stabbed to death actually just before Charlie was assassinated.
It was a huge story then.
And she was just doing public transportation.
So two stories like this where we had multiple, multiple incarcerations.
Do we have an under-incarceration problem?
Heather McDonald.
We absolutely do, Andrew.
The criminal justice system, as set up by our elites, values the freedom of criminals and deranged people over the safety of the law-abiding and the hardworking.
Every one of these abominations was wholly predictable.
These deranged maniacs who have taken the lives or nearly destroyed the lives of this poor woman who was chased around a subway with gasoline on her until the maniac was able to light her on fire.
They all have long criminal histories.
The quality of their criminal history suggests people that are absolutely in the realm of psychosis, schizophrenia.
They were predictable, and yet they're back on the streets.
Why?
Because the overall theme in our criminal justice system for decades now, Andrew, has been we would rather not incarcerate the people who should be in prison than incarcerate criminals in a fair, law-abiding, constitutional manner, if doing so would have a disparate impact on black criminals.
And as a result, we are way under-incarcerating.
We're decriminalizing.
And the public officials who wink at these assaults are all complicit.
The criminal liability does not rest exclusively on the criminals themselves.
It is a statistical certainty.
I'm here in New York.
There are walking time bombs.
Anybody can identify them visually.
These deranged, lunatic, drug addicts, predominantly black, who are walking the streets, muttering, gesticulating, on the subways, threatening people.
It is a certainty that in the next week or two, somebody will be pushed or stabbed by one of these.
And our politicians do everything but focusing on this.
It's an abomination.
And, you know, we talked to the other, at the end of last week, just the sort of not just the cost of direct crime, but the cost on people, just the sense of disorder in our lives.
I'm sure you've seen this where, for example, because we're so afraid to actually place these people, basic things, you see people jump turnstiles all the time in a lot of cities because they decide to not enforce that.
Or even really minor ones.
The classic one that people will complain about all the time online is people who loudly play music or do other overtly performatively disruptive things on public transportation.
But it's bigger than that, too, because we've talked about on this show, Heather.
It was another insight from Blake, that crime has an impact on housing.
How affordability because there's fewer and fewer neighborhoods that are acceptable to live in for families.
And then they have to break the bank just to get into a neighborhood with a good school or that's not crime riddled or that they have to worry about walking with a stroller on the sidewalk.
Or how many people just choose not to take a job where they might be the most qualified person or where it might be where they're most productive because, oh, that job is in a dangerous part of the city or it's in a city I just don't want to live because it's so unpleasant.
There's so much friction in American life.
And it all is downstream of we just refuse to let our cities be safe, orderly, clean, and pleasant.
Yes.
And so I'm going to go to the next step.
Well, we just elected a socialist mayor in New York and the sky is going to fall in.
But one of his ridiculous planks was government run grocery stores in every borough because allegedly we have a food affordability crisis.
I'm very skeptical of the claim.
But if we do, the problem is that stores move out because they can't handle the shoplifting.
There was a Target that moved into East Harlem, a great fanfare around 2015, I think, had exquisitely multicultural offerings, and it couldn't handle the retail theft.
And so it left, you know, and that happens again.
So yes, crime affects cost of living.
It affects insurance costs, but it is above all a psychic cost.
And that, again, all of this is preventable.
It's all preventable.
It's preventable by closing Rikers, right?
Because I know he's promised to do that, right?
Right, exactly.
We need more capacity.
We certainly need more mental institutions.
So it's not just a question of locking up the sort of pure criminal.
It's also a question of locking up the deranged.
If you combine mental illness and drug addiction, you have a very, very high rate of violence.
Again, any politician who changes the subject after the burning of the Chicago woman, after the stabbing of Irina Zarutska, is complicit in murder.
So this is something else that I, because I was tweeting about this and I was seeing people's reaction.
And one of the things that kept coming up repeatedly is that we actually have a capacity issue.
And it struck me, Heather, that there has been a, I would say, a propaganda war waged against the prison system, right?
Now, some of it might have, there might be valid critiques embedded somewhere in there, right?
There might be grains of truth in this.
But the prison system, all I ever see on Netflix is like, you know, look at this terrible prison, how they treat people and all this.
Meanwhile, they got cell phones and they got like, you know, they're smoking cigarettes and all this stuff's going on.
They can watch TV.
They have prisoners who seem to have internet access.
Yeah, they got to do it.
They're coordinating like gang activity on the streets from some.
Anyways, that's not the point.
The point is that there has been a coordinated assault on the prison system.
I don't think we build them anymore.
I don't think we're expanding capacity.
And so even if we wanted to arrest and throw away the key with some of these guys, we don't have enough space.
Is this correct?
It's absolutely correct.
Prison remains a lifetime achievement award for persistence in criminal offending.
You have to work very hard as a criminal to get a prosecutor and a judge to agree on sending you away for a long time.
Inevitably, people are given community services, you know, probation.
They're supposed to be monitored.
And when they're out there without being incarcerated, they go on to commit more crimes.
People don't stop all of a sudden.
You know, it would be great if we could rehabilitate people in the community.
We don't know how to do it.
The criminals are created by decades of poor parenting, the failure of socialization.
And after they're arrested for their sixth robbery or assault, they don't suddenly stop offending.
The thing that works is prisoner menopause.
People age out of crime, but that's about the best thing we can do.
So getting incapacitation is an absolute known virtue and success of the prison system.
If we don't know how to keep people from reoffending in the community, my view is you don't get two bites of the apple, three bites of the apple.
We've got to bring it down much.
Again, the purpose of government is to protect the law-abiding.
It's not to protect criminals.
We have gone through a 300 or 180-degree sea change in the way our government officials think about themselves.
They think about themselves as protecting the allegedly marginalized against that horrible majority.
No, that's not their role.
Their role is to protect people who respect the rights and lives of others so they can go about the glory of commerce, of self-actualization.
We don't elect the government to be self-professed advocates for the criminals and the dysfunctional.
That's not their role.
Heather, I think you're articulating this feeling of the upside-down world that so many Americans feel like they live in so well and with such moral clarity.
And this is why we love having you on the show.
It does feel like the entire system somewhere along the line, the last 20, 30 years, tweak by tweak by tweak, became rigged against people that do the right thing, that wake up, that go to work, that shower before and after work, that send their kids to school, that pay their taxes and follow the law.
Meanwhile, it's been tweaked in favor of these people that murder Irina on the train or set people on fire.
By the way, you're talking about criminal menopause.
I guess it was like 50, and he was still doing this stuff.
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So Daisy on the team just told me something, just went live on thecharlikirkstore.com.
So if you could throw up 172, this is pretty cool.
We have Freedom Crew Necks now, which is like very, very, I didn't even know this was happening.
They look gorgeous and high quality, made in America, the official freedom shirt.
So it was actually Daisy and Charlie who designed the original Freedom shirt.
And so that just came from our team here.
And then it's become this international iconic symbol.
And I love it.
And our email is freedom at charliekirk.com.
These are all from Charlie.
So we have it now in crew neck sweaters, which is awesome.
So check it out there.
CharlieKirkstore.com, pick it up.
And we are all caught up in orders.
I know a lot of you guys ordered stuff and it was like delayed because it was just taking a long time.
But we are all caught up.
So check that out as well.
I am going to play, oh, check this out.
Another piece of housekeeping.
Throw up 178.
This is out of this is in New York Times.
So Heather's in New York.
And they have Charlie.
So these are our friends at Rumble talking about Amfest coming up.
And so this is in New York Times right now, which is very, very cool.
Mamdani has to look at it.
So, you know, poor Mamdani.
And then, so this was actually the pivot that I was planning here.
And this is Blake's favorite person, Wajahat Ali.
173, and this will kind of pivot to what we're going to talk about with Heather.
173.
Now it's on you.
You want to blame all Afghans for this crime?
Okay, using your logic, deport all white men.
Sorry, white men are the problem.
Number one mass shooters, white men.
Sorry, your rules.
So are white people more likely to break the law or immigrants?
Or does it matter?
Are we asking the right question, Blake?
Well, one of the answers is it doesn't matter because for Wahajali, it's like generally those are Americans.
Yeah.
And we don't have an obligation to bring any foreigner into America.
All right.
Heather McDonald, I'm going to play this clip from Jasmine Crockett and have you respond on the other side.
Let's go ahead and play Cut 123.
Now you want to go against every single immigrant.
That doesn't make sense.
And it's frankly not who we are because if that's the case, let's talk about the white supremacists and how many of them need to be kicked out of this country because I can guarantee you I can track down more crimes that they've committed because overall immigrants have a lower crime committal rate than white supremacists.
But we don't want to talk about that in this country.
We don't want to talk about that in this country.
Heather McDonald, your reaction.
I love to hear the left say, well, you don't want to paint an entire group with the sins of the one.
Oh, I see.
That's why we're all being packed off to white privilege training.
You know, that these numerous white supremacists and why the entire white races or Western civilization, Europeans are responsible for all the world's evils, which is, of course, a complete lie.
I just have to say, Western civilization has saved the world from poverty and penury and oppression.
But in any case, this is ludicrous.
The white supremacist killings are absolutely horrible, but they are very, very few.
We had in 2022, you had a 19-year-old who killed 10 people in a Buffalo grocery store.
Then we all remember 2015, Dylan Roof killed nine in a church in Charleston.
These are white-on-black crimes.
And he's sentenced to death.
Whites are not the ones committing crimes over all in this country.
The black-white crime rate is blacks are 35 times more likely to commit violence against whites than whites against blacks.
As far as immigrants go, it's a very difficult topic, Andrew, because we have really lousy data.
You know, if you're Wellesley, Massachusetts, or New York City jail, you have zero incentive to try and find out the immigrant status of people in your jail because if the feds ask to deport somebody after he's finished his sentence, you're not going to comply anyway.
So the data that we have for especially illegal alien offending is very, very scattershot and incomplete.
It depends as well on the source country, the ethnicity.
Asians generally have a much lower crime rate than everybody else.
Hispanics generally have a much higher crime rate than whites, but it's lower than blacks.
So generally, I would say my general rule of thumb is that by the second and third generation of immigrants, that's where you see crime going up as the children of immigrants assimilate into the underclass culture.
The first generation, again, it's hard to know, but the issue, I think, sometimes conservatives overstress crime and terrorism concerns, which need to be addressed, but the real issue is cultural change and whether any society has the right to say we prefer to stay the way we are.
We prefer a particular cultural heritage and we should be determining our own immigration policy, not people living outside the country determining our immigration policy for us by virtue of their decisions to enter the country overwhelmingly illegally.
Well, I thought that was really, really well said.
We do tend, I think people tend to focus on the crime and the terrorism stuff because it's candidly easier to talk about than the cultural assimilation arguments, and it's less uncomfortable for like a country club republic.
They've been trained that it's not okay to just say, I want my country to be the way I remember it.
I want to bequeath it to my children and our posterity.
I want my country to remain my country and not become another person.
It doesn't feel like America in so many places of the country anymore.
Heather McDonald, when race trumps merit, throw up 174, buy her book, buy her stuff, follow her, give her all the support you can.
She is a national treasure.
Thank you, Heather McDonald, for making the time for us today.
Thank you, Andrew and Blake.
It's such an honor.
Thank you.
Thank you.
You know, in the case of Europe, we know that the crime rates are higher for the immigrants.
