Debates From the Archive - Charlie on the Trans Debate
One of Charlie's favorite questions to ask on campuses was "What is a Woman?" Students frequently challenged him on the transgender issue, so this week's legacy debate compilation takes some of his most viral and compelling conversations on the topic of men entering women's bathrooms, sporting events, prisons, and more. Watch every episode ad-free on members.charliekirk.com! Get new merch at charliekirkstore.com!Support the show: http://www.charliekirk.com/supportSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
I run the largest pro-American student organization in the country fighting for the future of our republic.
My call is to fight evil and to proclaim truth.
If the most important thing for you is just feeling good, you're going to end up miserable.
But if the most important thing is doing good, you'll end up purposeful.
College is a scam, everybody.
You got to stop sending your kids to college.
You should get married as young as possible and have as many kids as possible.
Go start a Turning Point USA college chapter.
Go start a Turning Point USA high school chapter.
Go find out how your church can get involved.
Sign up and become an activist.
I gave my life to the Lord in fifth grade.
Most important decision I ever made in my life.
And I encourage you to do the same.
Here I am.
Lord, use me.
Buckle up, everybody.
Here we go.
The Charlie Kirk Show is proudly sponsored by Preserve Gold, the leading gold and silver experts and the only precious metals company I recommend to my family, friends, and viewers.
Let her talk.
I am here to have a civil conversation that's going to be a good idea.
Can you show them?
This is why we need AI art.
Can you show them that?
Fair enough.
You know, fair.
Wasn't meant to be good, was meant to be scary.
But nonetheless, I had a question regarding, I recently learned about you.
I didn't know before.
But you had this revolving question of like, what is a woman?
And I was interested in talking to you about that.
As someone who does identify that way.
Do you know the answer to that?
What is a woman?
So why I was going to have this conversation with you.
So have you studied anthropology?
You mean, do I know what a human being is?
No, no, no.
I'm asking, have you studied anthropology?
No, I haven't been to college, actually.
Okay, that's okay.
So in anthropology, it's the study of human and culture.
And yada, yada, yada.
Go with breaking that down.
So everyone is born with a sex.
We can't deny that.
That's true.
That's the real thing.
But the moving from sex, the moving from the terminology from changing from sex to gender, two different things.
Gender doesn't exist.
Okay, why do you feel that way?
Well, so since you're an anthropology expert, who can?
I never said I was.
Well, have you studied anthropology?
Yeah.
Okay, so you know more than who came up with the term gender and when was it coined and started and when was it proliferated?
Yeah, I don't know about that.
Yeah, okay.
So exactly.
We get that.
So let me just get this straight.
If you study anthropology and I haven't and you don't know like the most fundamental thing about the answer to that?
Yes.
It's by John Money in the 1960s.
Period.
I'm glad you're educated.
So then let's talk about gender.
So breaking it down.
No time.
Who is John Money?
John Money's like the most important person when it comes to the idea of gender, transgenderism.
He came up with this idea as gender, which basically is, hold on, let's have some respect.
Okay.
Let's have a conversation.
I want to hear what he says.
Basically, personality.
So there's two sexes, no genders, infinite personalities.
Interesting.
So for almost all of human existence, this idea of gender has never existed.
It's a concocted, artificial, academic term that was, again, pushed in the 1960s by John Money.
And I don't need an anthropology degree or to go to an anthropology class to know that.
Yeah, that makes sense.
I guess my question for you then is, do you in your mind know that like in society then like gender is even if you don't think it's a relevant term or if it's real it's still a relevant thing within our society.
It's still something that's on your driver's license.
It's still something that's on your doctor's pay points.
It's still something we have to talk about and it affects society.
What is on your birth certificate?
Your sex.
Oh, but not your gender.
That's weird.
But you can change your gender marker on your driver's.
That's where we disagree.
You cannot actually change what you are.
Gender is an irrelevant thing that we've come up with.
You can feel that way, but gender is, just because it's irrelevant to you doesn't mean it's irrelevant to transgender people, to queer people.
Their identities exist whether you agree with them or not.
No, no, no, I got it.
I totally acknowledge people have mental delusions.
Like, I totally get that.
Like, totally.
100%.
Then we might just, we're going to hit a disagreement because I just can't say that being queer is a mental delusion.
No, of course it's a mental delusion.
I mean, if you think you're something you're not, if you think you're a wolf when you're human, or if you think you're a human when you're a wolf, or vice versa, is that not a mental delusion?
But that's not what gender is.
Oh, no, no, but they think they're something that they're not.
Like, they have XX chromosomes.
Who are you to say they're not?
Oh, but show me the chromosomes.
Like, if it's XX chromosomes, they think they have XY chromosomes.
That's a delusion.
Okay, so again, we're talking about sex.
We're not talking about gender.
Okay, so again, gender does not exist.
So we are getting into a domain where they want us to acknowledge those of us that live in reality, right?
To acknowledge their delusion.
Now, again, we wouldn't care if all it's like a 30-year-old weirdo wants to wear a dress alone at home.
It doesn't impact us.
The problem is that we then have to use the pronoun that is objectively against nature and against reality.
Number two, we have to teach this to our kids.
And number three, all of a sudden, like transgenderism becomes like a big social and civil right.
It has been something since the dawn of time.
It has been recorded that transgender and queer people have existed throughout all of history.
Let's dive into that.
So again, I fully acknowledge.
I want to hear what you have to say.
So like, you know, I fully acknowledge that people have had mental problems since the dawn of the world.
Let's not talk about mental problems.
No, but that doesn't mean that connotation is.
Because even in the DSM-5, gender dysphoria is acknowledged.
Like, if it's not a mental problem, if it's not a mental problem, why do you have to see a psychologist?
What's wrong with seeing a psychologist?
No, nothing.
But again, you go to a psychologist.
What's wrong?
No, no, no, no.
Time out.
There's nothing wrong with it, but you go to a psychologist because something is wrong.
You don't go to a psychologist just because everything's great.
I've been in therapy for five years and I started just because.
That might just be me, but I just started because.
It's kind of strange.
I got to be honest with you.
It's okay if you feel that way, but.
Well, again, you go to the doctor to get something fixed.
So definitionally, there's an error.
There's something off the mark.
Is it an error or is it an idea?
Is it like you can explore that part of yourself?
Is it a problem to explore your gender identity?
Again, I'm not going to tell you you can't do it.
Number one, kids should not be able to do it, period.
It should be illegal for kids to do that in this country.
Number one.
But the broader question is: what is reality?
And I refuse to ever acknowledge that a man can become a woman or a woman can become a man.
Within your reality.
No, no, in objective reality.
It's not Charlie.
Within your reality.
No, again, it's.
So this is an important thing: subjectivity versus objectivity.
So again, let me ask you a question.
Can a woman have a prostate?
No, no.
Yes.
Tell me, tell me.
Transgender women.
Okay.
So transgender women.
So people who identify as a woman within society, they present with their gender expression as feminine.
So you have to just give me a working definition of then what a woman is.
Do they have a uterus, too?
Well, just let her talk.
What is a woman?
It is anyone who identifies as that way.
And it's okay, you guys don't feel that way.
Timeout, though, but that doesn't actually describe a woman.
That's just saying that anyone can be a woman.
But do you need the definition of a woman to know what one is?
100%.
Of course you do.
I don't.
I mean, but of course you, but first of all, yes, but isn't it just like a little bit silly you can't answer this fundamental biological question of what a woman is?
But again, you're asking me about sex.
You're asking me about what a female sex is.
And I can tell you what the female sex is, but as for a woman, which is a gendered term created from the terminology of the expression of gender.
We, because we live in reality, reject the term gender.
Okay.
Right?
And again, you didn't even know where it was from.
I'm not criticizing you because, you know, you're in anthropology studying and I'm not.
That's fine.
But getting back to its like core roots, I just want to make sure that we are clear that anybody can become a woman.
Yes.
Okay.
When is womanhood achieved?
That's not about an achievement.
There's never, it's not like it's a race.
You don't race to achieve womanhood or manhood.
So at any point at any time, someone can become a woman.
Yes, and they can achieve womanhood and experience it.
can experience what it's like to be a woman and being a woman but so so basically so basically to be a woman is just a mindset Yeah.
It's a social upbringing and it's a social thing that we implore on people who are raised as female.
Okay, this is now we're getting somewhere.
Do you think there are any objective differences between biological men and biological women?
Biological males and biological females.
Yes, there are sex differences.
Okay, so if there are, if there are sex, if there are sex differences, then how can a man who is of the sex of a man feel what a woman feels?
How is that possible?
Because gender is not related to that.
Okay, so gender is the cultural weight that we put on individuals with gender norms and what we impose for them to do.
We impose.
So as society, like when I'm born, I'm a woman.
And people say that.
But that doesn't mean that I could grow up and become an adult and then decide that I don't feel that way.
It doesn't matter what you, that's what we're getting finally at, right?
And I'm glad we're finally getting somewhere.
We're of the opinion that your feelings mean absolutely nothing.
Okay, and that's okay.
You don't have to care about my feelings.
But let me just finally get to a point then.
What if I refuse to call you a woman when you are a man or a man when you are a woman?
Am I allowed to do that?
Is misgendering okay?
Is that acceptable?
I can't stop you from doing it, but I personally would be.
Should there be a punishment for misgendering in the workplace?
Legally?
Yeah, or how about because you'd be fired from your job for misgendering?
It depends on the extent of the situation.
I mean, if you're harassing somebody who is asking you to just use their pronouns.
No, I refuse to ever use pronouns that are not.
You're that person.
Do not go out of your way.
You can't ignore someone in your workplace.
That's the point.
But you can be civil.
You can address them with their name and just their name.
Well, again, that is something you can do.
The most civil thing we can do is to tell the truth.
And I refuse to lie to trans people and accommodate their delusion and to say that even though you say you are a woman or say you are a man, I'm going to accommodate that.
Connection, open dialogue.
These are the things that build communities.
Charlie, Kirk, and TikTok share in that knowledge.
That's why TikTok has built a space where that kind of listening actually happens.
People don't just post, they respond.
They build on each other's ideas.
You'll see a teacher simplifying a tough lesson so it finally clicks, or a gardener sharing a trick that saved their crop.
But what matters most isn't the video.
It's what comes next.
Someone asking a question, someone else answering with a story of their own.
And suddenly, people who've never met become a community built on curiosity.
When people listen and understand, a shift happens.
Walls come down.
Ideas travel further and connection, real connection, takes their place.
That's what listening does.
It reminds us that we're not as different as we may think.
And that's what makes TikTok so powerful.
It's a place where every post can turn into a conversation and every conversation can make a difference.
Portions of our program are sponsored in part by TikTok.
Can we at least come to some agreement?
Do you think that it should be illegal for minors to get gender-affirming care?
What is the gender-affirming care you're referring to?
Do you mean like sex, like palomoprosity?
Do you mean like?
Well, everything from top surgery to hormones.
Like, that's a spectrum of a gradation.
Yeah, there is a spectrum of care that people can receive.
So the first step to a gender-affirming care is social changes.
So their environment needs to change.
People need to be supportive of their environment and changing who they are in society.
And then with the moving forward, if you decided that after time that that is something you wanted to do is receive care, you could do hormones.
We should affirm a 14-year-old that thinks they're transgender.
I think we should go out of our way to socially support a transgender 14-year-old and then wait to see what happens later on in their life to decide if they wanted to medically transition or not.
Guys, one second.
This is where we have a disagreement.
We should seek to heal that 14-year-old by not accommodating or affirming their own lie about themselves.
But what is healing?
Healing is coming back into alignment with your own perception of the people who are believes in the Bible.
Not everyone practices that religion.
It's not even the Bible.
You're talking to me.
It's nature.
So your nature is your biological sex.
And we can agree that people will live a better life if they're in harmony with how they were born.
I wouldn't necessarily agree with that.
Okay, but again, we know it's correct because people that are transgender tend to have more depression, more anxiety, not because they're bullied or ridiculed, but because they have these underlying issues.
So do cis men.
Cis men have like one of the highest rates of depression and suicide in this country.
Cisgender men.
You mean cisgender men?
Yes.
Actually, that's not true.
Women are far more depressed than men on average in this country.
Men commit suicide more because they're more successful at committing suicide than women.
It's just true.
Women actually try to commit suicide more.
It actually just takes two or three attempts for women to actually get there.
It's not a joke.
It's actually true.
But can we at least then agree that men should not be allowed in female sports?
We jumped topics very quickly.
No, that's actually, it's not a topic.
It's all in the arena of this is why it matters of what a woman is.
You say, why do you care?
What do you care?
Because it impacts a lot of different things.
It impacts a lot of different things.
You're right.
Including female sports.
Including female sports.
So do you think that the Boise State female volleyball team or the Boise State female softball team or whatever, they should have a protected unit that biological men should not be allowed to compete in their if you want to divide it based on sex, you can, but it's not if you're dividing it on gender, then they should be allowed to play because they identify as women.
If it's about performance, then we can talk about what goes into that individual's care with their health.
If they're on hormones, if they're not on hormones, whatever is affecting them.
But ultimately speaking, if we're talking about dividing the gendered sport based on gender, then it is.
What would you reckon?
Should we do it on gender or should we do it based on sex?
Because you've wanted to have everything configured on gender previously.
Should sports be sex-centric or gender-centric in your own view?
I feel like sports should be gender-centric.
Okay, so then you have no issue with a man who is born male at birth, who then becomes a woman, be able to compete against women in women's sports.
Most people who are transgender and performing in sports are usually at a point in their transition where they are on hormones that lessen.
If we're talking about specifically transgender.
We have 890 instances of the last five years of biological men that have won awards or trophies or first place finishes over biological women, over women, from track championships to NCAA swim meets to volleyball meets.
So you're saying they have an unfair advantage?
Yeah.
Yes.
Okay.
So what I'm saying, though, is so does Michael Phelps.
He is literally twice the size of any other human being.
But he is a man.
Yeah.
And he's competing against other men.
Okay.
Yes.
Whereas just that how God designed us, I know this might be new to anthropology students, that men tend to have nearly double the muscle mass, nearly 75% more of the lung capacity.
We tend to have more bone density.
We can deadlift more.
We could squat more.
We can run for the first off of what God says.
Well, no, it's nature.
No, it's nature.
But who created nature to you?
Well, again, it is God.
But I don't even need you.
We can't agree.
I don't need you to believe in God to accept nature.
Nature is that men, based on using our own self-evident human reason, men tend to be stronger.
Men tend to be faster.
Men tend to be more physically equipped for sports than biological women.
You can agree with that.
Yes.
It depends on each individual who's playing in sports.
We might just not agree in terms of the game.
Just to give you an example, like even the best tennis players, one of the Williams sisters, Venus and Serena Williams, they were not even able to compete up against like college tennis players.
They were not even able to compete against the hundredth best male.
I mean, it is such a category difference that, like, I would posit this.
I would say that the state champion of Idaho high school boys basketball would be able to beat Caitlin Clark one-on-one.
I actually think the best basketball player in Idaho would be the bet.
No, it actually is that the best high school basketball players in the country can beat the best WNBA players.
And it's not even just my conjecture, my speculation.
It's a fact.
Has that happened?
Well, I would love to see.
I don't, Caitlin Clark, if she's willing to do it, go ahead and step up.
We do know, however, that high school sophomore basketball teams actually are able to compete up against very good women's basketball teams.
Like, that's about the level of difference, about a seven-year gap in the sophistication.
And I just, are we debating this?
I mean, is this really something that's up for debate that men are like exponentially better at competitive sports than women?
No, I would not say that because women are excellent at sports.
Against other women.
The way you said that sentence is harmful because I know what you're saying, but you're saying men are exponentially better at sports than women.
That's not that.
There are excellent, excellent women who can out-compete men.
Okay, but again, at the Pareto principle, so at the 1%, right?
Can you show me a single woman, a biological woman on the planet that can get within 150 pounds of the world record of the deadlift, the bench press, or squat?
Can you show me like a single woman that has ever lived that could finish in the top 15th of Olympic weightlifting?
I don't know anything about that.
No, it does not think about it.
They can't, right?
If you look at the women's weightlifting records and you look at the males' weightlifting records, there's almost like a 40% difference of what the weight they're actually lifting.
You look at the fastest mile ever run by a woman, the fastest mile ever run by a man.
It's nearly like a minute difference.
I mean, the differences are so dramatic and it's nothing against women.
It's nature.
And what the transgender movement does at its core is it is a war on nature.
And we as conservatives accept nature because we think nature is beautiful and we respect it and understand it and don't wish to wage a war on it.
Thank you for your time today.
Okay, thank you for your time.
A new Hillsdale College miniseries on colonial America offers a fresh way to think about Thanksgiving.
Beyond the food and the political debates, it reminds us what we should be truly thankful for: our freedom, our prosperity, and our faith.
In a brand new six-part documentary series, Hillsdale College professors will teach you the religious, the political, cultural, and economic ideas that shaped a uniquely American culture during the colonial period.
This Hillsdale course will focus on the forging of the American character that made the revolution possible and why it's more important than ever to remember and reclaim that character today.
This Hillsdale College miniseries is completely free and it's easy to access.
Plus, Hillsdale offers more than 40 other free online courses.
Go right now to charlieforhillsdale.com to enroll.
There's no cost and it's easy to get started.
That's charlie4hillsdale.com to register.
C-H-A-R-L-I-E-F-O-R for Hillsdale.com.
Hey, Charlie.
Hi, are you going to fight me too?
Maybe.
No, okay.
Would you like a photo?
Can I get a photo with you real quick?
I don't know.
It depends.
Why don't you ask your question first?
All right.
Wait, why don't you want the photo with me?
Answer your question first.
All right.
So I am a pro-transgender, pro-LGBTQ.
My question is, what is your issue with those people living their life?
I think I've answered this adequately.
Can you tell me what a woman is?
What is a woman?
It's a.
It's a what?
What is a woman?
It's a person who believes they're a woman.
No, but that's not a definition.
That's like saying a pen is a think, a thing that thinks it's a pen.
What objectively is a woman?
It's a woman.
No, what is that?
A woman.
Give me a definition.
Just anyone who believes they're a woman.
No, but what is that?
That's circular reasoning.
What attributes?
What characteristics?
A human being that believes they're a woman.
What is a woman?
I'm answering your question.
No, you're not.
You cannot answer the word without using the word woman.
It's a person that believes and identifies with what a woman is.
No, answer the question without using the word woman.
No, without using the word woman.
Answer the question without using the word woman.
All right.
What is your problem with transgender people?
Answer the question without using the word woman.
What's wrong with them?
I'm not even saying that's wrong.
If you can't answer the question, it's rather revealing.
Actually, I don't hate them.
I love them so much, I don't want them to be living under affliction or delusion or self-butchery.
It's a delusion.
It is a delusion.
Transgender people have existed for centuries.
No doubt that people with mental afflictions have existed for quite some time.
But no, but many cultures.
Can you tell me why?
Trans and non-binary people?
What is a woman without using the word woman in the answer?
It's just a per...
Can you...
Can you answer that question or no?
It's just a person who believes they're a woman.
I mean, what's wrong with that?
You can't use the word woman in your answer.
Well, yeah, it just thinks it's a cat.
We good?
Okay, what is your contention?
I think you spread a lot of hate towards transgender people, towards LGBTQ people.
And I just like, why do you do that?
Give me an example.
Like you're saying that trans people aren't real, and that's a mental delusion.
No, no, they're human beings, but they're suffering under a mental affliction.
It's not a mental affliction.
If it's not a mental affliction, why do they have to see a psychologist?
So they can get hormones or like, you know.
Oh, but if there's nothing wrong with them, why do they need hormones?
Well, they need permission, especially if they're underage, but like they don't need it if they're like overage.
Should men be able to compete in female sports?
There are a lot of like non-gendered sports that men and women compete together.
Like what?
I don't know, do like bowling and like pooling.
No, those are usually sex separate.
But you know, in chess, we have sex separate categories as well.
Not really.
No, we don't.
We have sex separate categories for international chess competitions.
I guess that's the question.
Very simple.
The inability to answer the most fundamental obvious biological question, what is a woman?
This is not troubling.
Like, it's so simple, it's so obvious.
And I guess the question is, when is womanhood then achieved?
Just like for that, whenever they decide.
I mean, like, what is your problem with, like, art?
What is your problem with, like, gay people?
I have no problem with.
I have no problem with anybody.
Yeah, you do.
You sped a lot of hatred, like, you know, misinformation about them.
Again, you have to be more specific.
What do you mean by hatred?
You call them a mental dislusion, but like it's not.
It is.
When you think you are something, you are not.
You're suffering from a mental delusion.
But they are.
Prove it.
Well, a lot of transgender people's brains are similar to the gender that they think that they are.
That they like.
Okay.
Well, I think we've been through this topic thoroughly, right?
Can we at least agree that kids should not receive gender affirming care?
Well, I think they should like go see someone so that they may go through the problem.
No, we share with like home.
But when you see somebody, should the goal be to affirm their gender dysphoria or to get them back in alignment with how they were biologically born?
To affirm their gender to see.
Yeah, again, we're on different planets.
We believe that doctors are there to heal, not to affirm.
Yeah, it is healing them.
No, healing.
It's helping them.
Okay, affirming a lie is never healing.
You don't go to a doctor.
It's a lie.
Okay, if it's not a lie, then where's the proof?
Transgender people have existed way before.
I mean, there is proof of that.
And they've been like, and many people have existed as transgender people and have lived happy, healthy lives.
Last chance.
Can you tell me what a woman is?
Are you a woman?
Why are you so hateful?
I asked you what a woman was.
That's not hateful.
I gave you the definition.
Thank you for your time.
Look, I know there are a lot of choices when it comes to who you choose for your cell phone service.
There are new ones popping up all the time.
But the truth is, there's only one that boldly stands in the gap for every American that believes that freedom is worth fighting for.
And that is Patriot Mobile.
For more than 12 years, Patriot Mobile has been on the front lines fighting for our God-given rights of freedom while also providing exceptional nationwide cell phone service with access to all three of the main networks.
Don't just take my word for it.
Ask the hundreds of thousands of Americans who've made the switch and are now supporting causes they believe in simply by switching to Patriot Mobile.
It's easier than it's ever been.
Activate in minutes from the comfort of your own home.
Keep your number, keep your phone, or upgrade.
Patriot Mobile's all-U.S.-based support team is standing by to take care of you.
Charlie and Glenn over at Patriot Mobile, dear, dear friends.
So I'll give the last word to Charlie.
Call 972Patriot today or go to patriotmobile.com slash Charlie.
Use promo code Charlie for a free month of service.
That's patriotmobile.com slash Charlie or call 972Patriot and make the switch today.
Next question.
Yes.
Hi, Charlie.
How are you?
Um, okay. Um.
My question, I am not here to try to argue about moral beliefs or anything like that.
I am here to talk about the reasoning behind enforcing laws onto people, specifically transgender people.
Whether or not, don't ask me what my definition of a woman is.
Like you've asked every single other person who has talked about it.
I am not talking about whether or not their identities are valid because I don't think we will come to an agreement there.
I'm talking about the reasoning behind enforcing federal laws on these people, to not allow them to use a bathroom, to not allow them to dress the way they want to dress in public, to give our law enforcement the ability to...
I am actually blind.
Thank you for asking.
Not fully blind.
Educate yourselves.
Anyways, that's what I'm asking.
The reasoning behind why you feel the need to enforce laws onto these people and not allow them to express themselves regardless of their identity.
Should 14-year-olds be able to get tattoos?
I also have to say that.
You have a beautiful tattoo right there.
Should a 14-year-old be able to get a tattoo?
I think that's between them and their parents.
They can get tattoos if they get their parents' consent there.
I don't think it's any of my business if they should or not.
I think that's what they're doing.
Should a 14-year-old be able to drink or have hard vodka?
That's also between them and their parents.
If they're occasionally drinking in the evenings with their parents, keeping them safe, is that not better than restricting them till they're 21 and then they go out partying for the first time?
They get an alcohol poisoning or something?
I think it is, I think that's between them and their parents.
So you would get rid of all those laws.
Get rid of all the drinking laws.
Get rid of the tattoo protection laws.
Just get rid of those.
Honestly, probably.
But I understand why those laws exist.
But I do think ultimately that these laws exist, but also the law states that that's also between the child and their parents.
Yes.
Do you believe in, let's just put it this way, like anti-peeping tom laws?
Should men be able to go up to windows of women and watch them undress?
I want to ask you how that relates to.
No, it does.
It actually is directly related.
Do you believe that there should be a law against men going up to windows to watch women undressing?
Yes, of course I do.
why is it okay for a man to legally walk into a woman's locker room?
My question is.
Well, hold on.
No, it's illegal to look through a window at a woman undress.
Why should it be legal to walk into a locker room to watch women undress?
Well, that's assuming that they are going in there to watch women undress when they are actually going in there for a space for them to undress themselves in a space where they feel comfortable.
Why can't they do that in the sex that was on their birth certificate?
Why can't they undress alongside other men if they're a man?
They could put a dress on in that locker room, but they're just around other men.
Why do you want them to so bad?
Well, because I think women should be protected from perverts.
I think it is really naive and small-minded.
No, no, but no, hold on.
Somewhere deep down, you agree with me.
You don't think it's right for people to peep in the windows.
I don't agree with perverts and allow them to be aware of.
Well, I know, but that's what you got it.
So that's the point is that if you are a biological man who thinks you're a woman, you necessitate, you all of a sudden are in the category of perversion when you want to go undress and unrobe around women in locker rooms, and you are not going to protect yourself.
I think that kind of depends on your definition of perversion because assuming that all transgender women are perverts is a serious thing.
Honestly, a lot of them are.
A lot of them suffer from some of the things.
How many trans women have you met and talked to and do you know?
Well, if you mean by trans women, you mean men who think they're women?
Actually, I met Bruce Jenner, really nice person.
I learned a lot from him.
And so, but yeah, it's autogynophilia.
These are guys that get off sexually, but for dressing like women.
You're not right, but that's factually not true.
Do you know what autogynophilia is?
Yeah, you don't.
So don't interrupt me.
You just described it as getting off.
Yeah, so autogynophilia is the sex.
Autogynophilia is the sexual pleasure that one gets.
It's the fetish of dressing like women and being around other women that are naked, right?
So a lot of men that are transgender are actually suffering from autogynophilia because they have a sexual fetish of dressing and dressing.
Do you have a statistic there?
Do you know how many trans women are unfortunately this hasn't been radically studied because our scientific literature has been very corrupted by the trans industry?
But there's a lot of evidence to show autogynophilia is the baseline of a lot of the transgenderism.
But I just want to make sure that we have a baseline agreement.
Like, what is to prevent a regular guy on the campus of Boise State say that I'm a girl and he just walks into the girl's locker room?
At what point are you okay with them walking in the locker room?
What do they have to do to satisfy you to be able to get, to be allowed into the women's locker room?
Not be perverts or not going in there to be a person.
How do you know?
If all of a sudden one of these guys, you know, all of a sudden put on a dress, put on a wig, and just walked into the locker room with the full intent to watch women undress, which unfortunately is a lot of perverts.
Are you okay with that?
How do you know they're not a pervert?
I am not okay with someone walking into a bathroom or a locker room with the intent of watching women undress.
But the baseline disagreement, the misunderstanding, and we can't actually.
We don't know all the intent.
The point is that we keep men and women separate because a lot of men want to see naked women.
So we don't allow them in locker room.
Here's my question for you.
There are a lot of transgender men assigned female at birth who quite honestly look more masculine and more like a man than you do.
Do you really want them in the women's men?
So that's an interesting thing.
So I won't even take that as a, you know, an attack.
What does a, what is a man?
Because you just used a grading scale of more masculine, less masculine.
So instead of what is a woman, what is a man?
You said someone was more masculine than me.
So what is like ultra man?
What does that look like?
10 out of 10 man.
What is that?
10 out of 10 man.
You just said someone is more masculine looking than me.
So tell me what that means.
Tell you what more masculine man than you looks like.
A square jaw, larger muscles, a large beard, or like the mask, typical masculine features.
There are plenty of transgender men who are very, very masculine, very, very male-presenting.
You wouldn't know they were trans if you saw them in public.
You want them in your wife's and your daughter's bathrooms.
That's what you're saying.
Yes, I mean, of course.
I mean, I don't want them in my locker room.
They should go to the sex that is on their birth certificate, of course.
And the point being is that just because you have a good costume does not mean you are the person that you seek to be.
If you dress as Lawrence of Arabia, you don't become an Arab sheikh.
If you dress as Julius Caesar, you're not in control of the Roman Empire.
Your costume does not dictate your reality.
And just because someone might look more masculine than I am, fine, whatever, because they have testosterone being pumped through them at every time, artificially, that doesn't make them a man.
But again, so why is it that we want to legislate things?
Well, we have a fundamental thing that women should be protected.
I know that's like a crazy concept for the trans lobby, but women should be protected from having to change next to men, having to look at male penises without their permission.
They should not have to have perverts come into their locker room.
They should not have their trophies stolen from them.
They should not have their rewards stolen from them, all as an outgrowth of the transgender movement.
I think there are a lot of contradictions in your argument.
I think like if you think about, for instance, how there are plenty of grown male pedophiles, male gay pedophiles, you're allowing them, you don't know their, every man's intent when they're walking into the bathroom with your son.
There are plenty of stories of sexual assault against men in male bathrooms by other men.
So how are you avoiding more perversion by like you don't know the intent of anyone who walks into a bathroom or whatever?
I want to ask the women of this.
Let me ask you a question.
Yeah, I'm a woman.
You're in a female locker room and you see just a man totally undress, penis and all.
Are you comfortable with that around that?
And he's looking at you when you undress.
Are you comfortable with that?
I personally, because of just how I am, I'm not usually comfortable seeing anyone fully undress in front of me.
I don't spend a lot of time in locker rooms.
Okay, but if all it but does it not make I feel safe with their presence and if they are not being weird and staring at other women while they are undressing and doing that, then no, I don't give a crap if they have a penis and I have to say that.
And I'm just curious, do the women in this audience, are you okay undressing around biological women?
And again, that's where we are heading.
We are heading towards this inevitable conclusion where any pervert for any reason can walk into a female-only space and they can be, they can look at you guys when you undress.
This is happening in Deerfield High School right now in the suburbs of Chicago.
There is a trans woman, so a biological man, who is granted access into the seventh grade locker room.
He masturbates in front of all the women.
It's well on record.
The girls complained and said, we don't like this.
They got in trouble.
They got punished for not being accepting of trans people.
It's a real example.
They got graded down and the man then makes fun of all of them saying, I'm getting off in front of all you guys.
I have special rights because I'm trans.
That's where your movement is.
That's what you are defending.
Do you think there is any way for us to have the conversation?
I just gave you a real example.
You gave me one real example.
And I have hundreds.
I have hundreds in Wabatosa, Wisconsin, or in Morristown, New Jersey.
I have hundreds in Richmond, Virginia, in Loudoun County, Virginia, in Boca Raton, Florida.
We have hundreds of these examples pouring in where all of a sudden when we start to break down the sex differences of how we are made and how we are designed, all of a sudden, the idea of protecting women goes out the window.
And I find it so ironic to bring it full circle, not with you.
Like, hey, Charlie, don't you care about protecting women with the rape statistics?
I'm like the greatest defender of women out there when I don't think.
I'm the greatest defender of women out there.
Yes, far so more than anyone on the left, where they're okay with over 890 medals and trophies that were stolen from women that biological men got under the transgender guys, that they remain silent when these creeps go into these locker rooms next to these women, like, oh, well, that's transgender progress.
And so I don't even know what to say at some point.
Well, there's actually no way to continue the conversation because there's the baseline misunderstanding that all transgender people are perverts.
And I want to say that.
I never said they're all perverts.
I said that there are people.
You are saying that there are a lot that are perverted.
They suffer from auto-gynophilia.
But even if they are not perverted, even if they're not perverts, like female comfort and safety is a beautiful thing that we believe in the biblical Western construct that women must be protected.
We as men primarily go to war and we fight to protect women.
That is how the West was won and the West continues to advance.
We protect women.
And if we're not going to say like this is a special female space away from the potentiality of perversion, then we're not doing our job of men as protecting them.
And it's just amazing how many women like yourself are like, come on in, men, no problem.
As long as you dress like us, I'm perfectly fine.
And that is the, that is the ultimate, like, that is the pinnacle of degenerative feminism.
Once again, there is no way to continue the conversation when you have the belief that there are so many.
I am about to leave.
Calm down, people.
I want to say that I would like to encourage everyone here to go out and have actual conversations with trans people.
Transgender women.
Have a conversation with them and tell me that you felt like they were perverts.
I never said they were all perverts.
I said they're suffering from mental delusion.
And we must have a hard and fast rule.
You are not allowed in a space that your chromosomes do not align.
People are not going to be able to do that.
I would like to say that your argument that it's a mental delusion because they need psychiatrists.
Well, that's one of many.
But I mean, it's so it's someone who thinks they're a wolf, do they have a mental delusion?
If someone believes they're a wolf, I don't see how that is inaccurate.
Because they believe something that is not objectively true.
Realistically, gender expression, like a person's gender is more about how society views them and how society is.
Gender does not exist.
We've been through this the whole time.
Gonna say gender does not exist and then insists that there are only two ways to express gender, two sexes.
No no, there's infinite personalities.
There are tomb.
By the way, have you noticed about the disappearance of like tomboy girls?
Do you remember tomboy girls that?
Actually, I think you know why.
Because now they all become like trans men and we lose them, where tomboy girls used to go through a little masculine phase when they're 14 15, and then they grew out of it.
Praise god, because you went through puberty.
You have different cycles and ups and downs and valleys and troughs and peaks and pinnacles, and so you go up and down throughout puberty and you shouldn't intercept somebody at puberty when they all of a sudden are feeling something that is not biologically correct.
