Debates From the Archive - Charlie on Abortion Part 2
Charlie was challenged on abortion more than any other issue. Now, listen to another compilation of his most viral and most compelling debates about why human life matters from conception, the latest installment from our series of legacy debates from Charlie's Prove Me Wrong events. Watch every episode ad-free on members.charliekirk.com! Get new merch at charliekirkstore.com!Support the show: http://www.charliekirk.com/supportSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Okay, just a reminder, if you guys disagree, you guys can work your way down.
And yes, we have a disagreement and a poster and a visual here.
Oh, yeah, here's my visual.
Hold on one second.
And I have a petition.
Raise your hand if you're progressive.
No?
I love this school.
This is a great school.
I love this place.
You don't have a lot of allies here.
It's going to be a tough crowd.
Well, my name is Davin Damien.
I am non-binary.
I am here with the Alliance.
Hold on, what's up?
Can I interrupt you?
Guys, hold on.
Hold on one sec.
So we outnumber, what's your name again?
I'm sorry.
Davin Damien.
Davin.
We outnumber Davin.
That's unusual on a college campus.
However, let's do something that liberals never do to us.
Let's give him, I think, courtesy.
They.
Him.
Courtesy that we don't give them.
How about that?
Okay.
So is everyone cool with that?
All right.
So let's not heckle.
Let's not interrupt.
Let's be the ambassadors for freedom of speech.
Cool.
Okay, please continue.
I must say thank you.
Thank you for that, Charlie.
So I'm here with the Alliance of Male Feminists defending women's bodies.
My main question is, why are you so obsessed with legislating women's bodies?
It seems like you've made it your life mission to remove the choice of the woman.
And I just want to know why that is.
Okay, so your advocacy is male feminists for women's bodies, right?
Her bodies, her choice.
Got it.
So maybe we can come to some common ground then before we talk about abortion.
Would you then agree with our position as conservatives that biological women should not have to share locker rooms with biological men?
Because your position is all about her body, her choice.
I think for the sake of argument, I'll say yes.
I'll say that.
Okay, I'm okay with that.
So let me then give you a further example.
So therefore, you would agree that in sports settings, especially youth sports, but all sports, Tennessee's own Riley Gaines, for example, when she went to go compete at University of Pennsylvania and had to share a locker room with a biological man, that was wrong because her as a female should be able to have a private space without men coming in there, right?
Frankly, you know, I'm an old school feminist, and so when I think of all this trans stuff, I think it's kind of wrecked us a little bit.
And so I don't think you'll trap me with that.
I think.
I'm not trapping.
And by the way, I wish we had more people like yourself that we were willing to speak out against the trans insanity.
So you deserve credit for that.
And I mean that.
Now, so we did find common ground on that.
So now I want to actually approach the issue that you came here.
So you're accusing me of wanting to legislate women's bodies.
Okay, so do you mean legislate control over women specifically with abortion?
Taking away her right to choose.
Got it.
Okay.
So I'm sure if I ask this question, the answer will be no.
But you would say, does a mother have the right to kill her child?
Not kill, but what I'm trying to raise awareness right now is that we need to abolish child neglect laws because that forces women to use their bodies even with babies.
Now, I'm not saying they should be allowed to kill babies, but I'm saying they should be allowed to let nature just take its course.
For example, that we're, I'm just saying, we are saying that it's survival of the fittest.
And what I'm saying is I think that the MAGA, fascist, I think you all are winning because you at least are trying to be consistent on the life issue.
But what I'm saying is we need to be as progressive consistent.
That's why I've got this petition here to get people to see that we must abolish child neglect laws if we're going to be consistent, that it really is her body and her choice.
So I think you're doing a very good job exposing the hypocrisy of left.
I could tell that this is a shtick.
And I will say, it's very effective.
And I tend to agree with where you're trying to go.
What he, they, them, whatever, is saying is the following, which is to abolish child neglect laws is the furthest extrapolation of a pro-abortion view.
But that's consistent.
Of course.
No, and I don't know what you actually believe.
But your satire can sometimes lead you towards truth.
And you should show, what he's, what, what he or you show the poster.
What he's saying in a way is that in order for the left, he doesn't actually believe this.
This is a shtick.
Yeah, got it.
Fine.
Yeah.
But what he's doing is trying to prove a point that if you are pro-choice, then therefore you should also get rid of child neglect laws because it means you actually don't care for the baby, whether it be in the womb or outside of the womb.
We are forcing women to use their bodies.
Sure, got it.
So very good.
Thank you.
And best of luck with your petition.
Next question.
Disagreements, welcome.
And that was quite a dialogue.
Anyone, disagreements?
Yes, ma'am.
Again, anyone in the crowd, you can work your way up if you disagree.
Yes, ma'am.
Hello.
So how many phases are in the menstrual cycle?
Do you know?
Well, I'm not a woman, so enlighten me.
So there's four stages of the menstrual cycle, okay?
Ovulation, focular, or sorry, I'm going to go in order.
Menstruation, focular, ovulation, and the lutal phase.
During which of those phases can a woman be pregnant?
When can she get pregnant?
Which are those phases?
During ovulation.
And ludal, yes.
So I know the answer to this question.
Have you ever had a menstrual cycle before?
No.
Okay, great.
So knowing that, and you just saying, I don't know the phases of the menstrual cycle, which I don't blame you for for being, you know, you don't have that.
So then, knowing this, you don't know everything about the female reproductive system.
How are you going to make legislation to hurt women and women's rights?
Are men allowed to have opinions on abortion?
You can have opinions on abortion, but what I'm saying is, how are these men going to create this legislation?
Got it.
So, well, men are allowed to have opinion on moral matters too, right?
Right.
Got it.
So if I was a male OBGYN, is it okay for that person to make issues of legislation?
They're educated.
They understand.
They are educated on the female reproductive system, so they can't.
If I don't know everything intimately about the female reproductive system, sit down and shut up.
You're a man.
No, that's not what I'm saying.
You can have an opinion.
That's all I can do.
It's all right if you have an opinion.
I'm saying it's not all right if you don't understand how the female reproductive system.
Okay, so let's pop quiz.
When does heartbeats begin for babies in utero?
Have you ever eaten an egg before?
That's yes or no?
Have you ever eaten an egg before?
Scrambled, yeah.
Okay, so would that be you scrambled a full chicken?
Well, hold on.
You understand it takes an egg to be fertilized?
Right.
Uh-huh.
Yeah.
Uh-huh.
Your point, the whole point you're making.
So no, since we're doing pop quiz on like human development, so when exactly do heart waves begin in utero?
You know that, but you don't know the four.
Oh, I know what you know.
Tell me when.
Tell me when heart wait.
I don't know.
Okay, you don't know.
No.
So wait, hold on.
So you're trying to say I know more about the woman reproductive system than you do?
I am a woman, so yes.
Yes, okay.
Well, but the point being is we could both go back and forth of like independent, trivial facts when it comes to the woman's reproductive system.
But here's something we all know because God wrote this on the human heart of every individual as it says in the book of Romans.
We know deep down it's wrong to murder a baby.
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You're not murdering a baby.
It's not a baby.
Okay, well, let's play this out.
What is it then?
It is an embryo, which is not a baby.
Well, okay, so it's a fertilized embryo.
Correct, which is not a baby.
So at what point does it become a baby?
When it is born.
Oh.
I don't agree with abortions up to full-term abortions.
Hold on, but you said it becomes a baby when it's born.
Why would you have abortion limits before it's born?
I thought it's just an embryo.
So embryo rights?
No, the embryo rights aren't a bad brain.
But then where would you draw a line for abortion then and why?
And under what moral standard?
There are medical reasons.
No, no, no, no, that's not the question.
That's not the question.
You just asked me why would I not have an abortion full term for medical reasons?
Okay, so at 29 weeks, the baby is nearly fully developed, can recognize the mother's voice, has a heartbeat, has brain waves.
Is it okay to abort that baby?
I don't, like, it's not okay, but you're going to say it's okay to have an abortion then.
Like, I don't understand what you're trying to say.
It's not okay to have an abortion ever.
How about like three weeks in?
Correct.
No abortion.
Correct.
Why?
Well, because your life started at conception.
It did not, though.
It did not.
Well, hold on.
So let's play this out.
So who are you as an individual?
From your skin color to your eye color to your likes, your dislikes, from your temperament to your everything.
I am not an embryo.
I'm a person.
Hold on a second.
But it started with something called deoxoribonucleic acid.
And your own individual DNA started at the point of egg and sperm meeting.
That's where your journey started.
And so from that point in particular, life begins.
Not at birth, not at first words, not at first steps, but when your DNA, which is who you actually are.
You are your DNA.
Every one of your DNA cells is coded, XX or XY.
It's coded with all of your unique characteristics and attributes that we believe God individually curated for the rest of your life.
That doesn't happen at eight weeks or ten weeks.
It happens at conception.
What happens if you need a medical abortion?
If the mother will die if she does not get an abortion, what's your stance on?
The only place where medical abortion is necessary is before 20 weeks, which is incredible.
What if she will die?
What if the mother will die?
So let's take, for example, this is a very important question.
Let's say it's 27 weeks, okay?
And the mother will die.
Why shouldn't you could agree?
Why don't we just have the baby delivered by cesarean section?
You know what a cesarean section is, right?
Yes.
What is a cesarean section?
A C-section?
Yeah, why wouldn't we just put the baby out by C-section instead of terminating it?
Because if the mother will die, it's not safe to do that.
You remove the baby.
I understand.
Threat removed.
I know what a C-section is.
But it's actually safer than an abortion.
So every time they say this is for you guys, they say, oh, you need to have abortion for medical reasons, respond, then have a C-section.
What if you're not able to have a C-section?
What if you are on your deathbed?
You need to have an abortion right now.
Again, you can't.
So you actually die.
First and foremost, C-section is safer.
C-section is quicker.
And a C-section saves both lives.
A C-section.
The baby is already dead, you just said.
No, but even...
No, no, no.
Hold on a second.
You're saying if the baby's already dead, then it doesn't even have an abortion, right?
Then you're talking about a removal of a carcass, which is a completely different medical operation.
You're saying that's okay if you're having...
If you're...
Hold on.
If you're removing a carcass of a baby, that is not an abortion.
By definition.
It's not the same process.
No, it's completely different.
During an abortion, they actually inject the spinal fluid with cyanide poisoning as the baby squirms and tries to find its mother and it is gasping for air of life.
Have you ever watched an abortion?
Yeah, actually, I have.
And I encourage every human being to watch one to know what you are fighting against.
Because when you see abortion, your life will be changed that we allow the massacre of a million and a half babies a year under the guise of woman reproductive health.
We are allowing babies every single year to just say, you know, we're going to discard them.
Why?
Oh, they're smaller.
They're not humans.
You're using dehumanizing language saying, oh, it's an embryo.
No, that's a baby made in the image of God, deserving of protection.
What do you do with those children once they're born into a bad household?
So now we've transitioned to like, what do you do with the kids?
Right.
Glad we're past the other part of the argument, okay?
What do you do with them?
You know, there's twice as many people on the adoption waiting list than there are abortions every single year.
And they're still on the list.
So you want to send a child into an orphanage?
Is that what you want for a child?
Is that a good life for a child?
No, I'm not advocating that.
In fact, I'm advocating to make it easier to be able to adopt, number one.
Number two, there's no such thing as an unwanted child.
Number three, it is never right to justify the mass elimination or termination of people under the guise of saying they're unwanted.
That's how we get Auschwitz.
That's how we get the greatest horrors of the 20th century.
Those people are unwanted.
So you're comparing abortion to the Holocaust?
Absolutely, I am.
In fact, it's worse.
It's worse.
It's really not.
It's 45 million babies.
It's nearly eight times worse than the Holocaust.
What's the moral difference between a small baby in the womb and a grown Jew who was killed at Auschwitz?
What's the moral difference?
One is older.
What species is the baby in the womb?
It's a human, but it's a human being.
Therefore, they should have human rights.
No!
They should have human rights!
I do not agree.
Oh, so small humans, no human rights, grown humans, human rights.
A small human, it's an embryo.
You just said it was a human species.
It's not a living human child.
Wait, it's not a what?
It's not a child.
It's not a living child.
It has a heartbeat.
It has brainwaves.
You can make it a child.
But to tell me when it becomes a child, then.
I already told you when it is born.
Again, so under every other objective definite, you see guys how quickly the pro-abortion arguments fall apart with just the slightest questioning.
But our position is one rooted not in feelings, not in personal autonomy, but one in biological consistency and reality.
That your life had an agreed-upon starting point, that that starting point should be protected and preserved.
And the excuses given for abortion is dehumanization.
Oh, it's just an embryo.
Guys, that's just using different language to justify the massacre of something smaller than you.
That's all that it is.
So here are the big objections.
Size.
It's smaller than me.
Then I should be able to get rid of it.
I'm 6'5 ⁇ .
Should I be able to murder people smaller than me?
Of course not.
You don't believe that.
Level of development.
Oh, it's not as progressed as this is your argument.
It's not as progressed as we are.
Therefore, we have rights over it.
So my 10-month-old baby, why should I not be able to eliminate my 10-month-old baby?
I have another question for you.
On the line of this, you will never be able to have an abortion, right?
You will never be able to have an abortion.
You will not, okay?
That's a fact.
Everyone knows that, okay?
I'm not debating that at all.
Make it quick.
You can tell the audience is.
Yeah, but go.
If I were to be pregnant right now and forced to have a baby, that would ruin my life.
This is an important question.
Hold on, hold on, hold on.
Time out.
So rape and incest are less than half of 1% of all abortions.
I'm not talking about that.
I'm talking if I just happen to be pregnant.
Oh, you don't happen to get pregnant.
It's not like getting COVID.
I know how it works.
I know how it works.
You don't get the flu.
I know.
How about this?
You take responsibility for your orgasms and stop eliminating people smaller than you.
So you're saying I should carry a baby and ruin my collegiate life.
How about this?
Instead of saying ruin, first of all, babies are a blessing.
Stop talking at them as if they're some sort of annoyance.
I will have to drop out of college.
Number two, number two, if you play certain games, you win certain prizes.
If you're going to go have sex.
So you're saying I should drop out of college to support my child and supporting my life.
I'm saying if you're going to engage in koikus, in the practice of having children, you might end up with a baby.
So know that.
And guess what?
You don't need to have sex before you get married.
It's not like showering.
It's not like eating.
Are you married?
Yes, with two beautiful children.
Wow, good for you.
I could tell you're not married.
Yeah.
Thank you for your time.
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I'm Sophie.
I'm the president of Vols for Israel.
Talk right in there.
Yeah.
I appreciate it.
God bless Israel.
Thank you.
I listen to your podcast a lot.
I agree with you on most things, but I have to disagree with you on comparing abortion to the Holocaust.
Just because the Holocaust was such a uniquely designed genocide, and I think comparing it to anything else undermines both the tragedy of the Holocaust and the tragedy of abortion.
Okay, so it's a good point.
However, you are right in one way.
I'll agree with you on, and I think you've been a good point.
That the design of the Holocaust was unique.
It was about the extermination of a people.
However, allow me to tell you where I'm coming from.
Where are abortion clinics most likely to be found in America?
Black neighborhoods.
In black neighborhoods.
There has, and the author and the charter of Planned Parenthood was a eugenicist.
She was such a eugenicist, she actually personally informed Adolf Hitler's views.
Her name was Margaret Sanger.
She wanted to use abortion as a depopulation movement to eradicate the black race.
And she's doing a pretty good job of it.
Black America has largely flatlined as a portion of the American population, right around 13%.
So while I agree that there was a specific horror to the Holocaust, Godfrey will never repeat that there are some very common attributes that can be drawn to.
Thank you for your time.
Thank you, and God bless Israel.
Thank you.
Who's up?
Who disagrees?
I'm good.
How are you?
Good.
My name is Danielle Adamo.
I'm a freshman here.
First of all, go balls.
I am not liberal.
I'm actually very independent.
I come from a military family with conservative parents.
Yep.
Go military.
I am here to ask not only you a question, but everyone in this audience a question because personally, as America, I think that we are missing a lot of important conversations that need to be have as a country because a lot of people are very concerned with abortion.
A lot of people are very concerned with Mexican immigrants.
But my question is.
Illegal immigrants.
Not all illegal immigrants are Mexican.
We don't racialize it.
Happy to talk about that next.
Yes.
How many abortions yearly did you say that there were?
Well, so if you count surgical abortions, it's about a million.
But there's something called a chemical abortion, which is an at-home abortion.
So it's probably closer to 1.8 million.
Okay.
8 million.
Okay, and do you know what percent or what number of that is from rape?
Yeah, it's less than half of 1%.
And that's according to the Guttmacher Institute, which is a pro-abortion.
So 99.9% of all abortions are for a pirate guy.
I know, yeah.
Go ahead, keep going.
Don't let it phase you.
He's like a celebrity.
Do you know how many women are that's reported in the United States are raped and sexually assaulted?
And another thing.
Just let her talk.
Got it.
Great.
Thank you very much.
Just stay focused.
The more you talk, the less they'll talk.
Okay.
How many are raped and sexually assaulted?
And another quick question.
Those are actually underprosecuted most times.
So we don't know.
I don't believe that's true.
No, most rapists don't get arrested.
Would you agree?
Oh, oh, yes.
That's what I'm saying.
It's underprosecuted.
Okay, sorry.
And there also, a lot of them aren't.
Sorry.
A lot of them aren't reported.
Everyone is so concerned with the embryos and like abortions.
What happens to those embryos if they are not aborted?
They grow up and they happen to be women.
What happens to them when they grow up and they get sexually assaulted?
Because everyone here, I would like you to think, mothers, sisters, friends, daughters, have you or anyone that you've known been sexually assaulted?
And if you're comfortable, please raise your hand because I have.
Okay, but hold on.
I just want to make sure.
Your argument is that therefore they should be aborted?
No, no, not at all.
It's a comparison.
It's fully a comparison.
I'm not here to talk about that.
I think that there are bigger issues.
I think there are bigger issues in America right now than what the Trump administration is focusing on.
Do you agree?
Like, do you have daughters?
I have a daughter.
You have a daughter?
Okay.
How would you feel if she was sexually assaulted?
I mean, obviously, terrible.
Terrible.
Have you ever been sexually assaulted?
No.
No.
Okay.
Why do you not want to do anything to stop that?
Well, I don't know.
Okay, but you don't talk about it.
Neither does the Trump administration.
that's not a big problem that they have even though I'm still talking please I'm still talking.
What do you, Pamela Harris?
Okay, stop.
I mean, I'm still talking, please.
I wasn't done and you're not.
I got your whole shtick.
So President Trump has talked about it so much that you know how much he talks about it?
We no longer have rapists coming across the southern border that will prowl on this campus and go after women.
Sir.
I came up here with my full respects to allow you to talk and you interrupted me.
You're giving a monologue, not a question.
So please ask your question.
Okay.
God damn it.
I think that there are more pressing issues than the Trump administration talks about.
He talks about, there's a lot more to it than what the Trump administration talks about.
What could be more pressing than nuclear war?
Seriously, we are on the verge of a nuclear war with Russia.
What could be more pressing than that?
I agree.
I agree, but...
What could be more pressing than having...
I think that women being sexually assaulted on the daily in America is a bigger problem than abortions.
Truthfully, I do.
Okay, I'm not going to...
And if anyone...
I'm not overly disagreeing, but also...
Exactly.
Exactly.
That's what I think.
Do you think that there should be something done put in place by the Trump administration to help women and men and everyone that are sexually assaulted?
There needs to be something that's not.
There already are laws on the books.
So, I mean, I don't, what would you propose?
And it still happens.
And it's still, I don't know, I'm not the president.
That's his job.
That's his job.
It's not his job to end sexual assault in America.
That's never going to happen, okay?
And by the way, just so we're clear, it's a lot.
We're talking about two different things.
Rape is not the same thing as sexual harassment.
It's not the same thing as sexual assault.
Those are three different things.
I said both things.
But sexual assault could be something as going in for an unwanted kiss.
Is that sexual assault?
Yes.
Whoa.
So you think going in for an unwanted kiss is sexual assault?
I thought you were talking about like something way more graphic.
Sexual assault is a branch of things.
Okay, so I'm including, I'm mostly talking about rape and incest and like physical sexual assault.
Yeah, of course I don't support that.
The president actually signed the Violence Against Womans Act.
Like there's a lot there that you should look at.
Okay.
But most importantly is this.
Reducing crime in the country is good for all people, women included.
But I do have to stand up and just disagree on one thing.
The overemphasis, though, on acting as if if some drunk frat bro goes in for a kiss and you didn't want it, that he should be labeled as a sexual assaulter or a rapist is bad for everybody.
I never said that.
Well, you did say it was sexual assault.
I don't think going in for... Kissing someone...
Sorry, you said going in, not like physically actually kissing someone.
Like leaning in for an unwanted kiss and maybe delivering that kiss that the girl did not want.
Is that sexual assault?
If it's done forcefully, then yes.
I mean, I'm sorry.
I think that's like improper and wrong.
I don't think the police should be involved in that.
Do you?
No.
There's so many different you think the police should be involved in like a frat situation where they're both drunk and a guy goes in for a kiss and she didn't want it.
That's not what I'm talking about.
That is exactly what you're talking about.
I'm talking, I literally blatantly said, I blatantly said rape, incest, physical.
