Charlie's Biblical Case for Borders + The Letter to Bibi
Borders are biblical, and one of Charlie's top political causes was making sure America has one. Steve Deace and border czar Tom Homan join the show to talk about the arrested illegal who became superintendent of Des Moines public schools, as well as the ongoing uprising against ICE activities in the Portland area. Blake and Andrew show some of Charlie's most important words regarding the immigration issue. Deace also discusses Charlie's views on Israel and the newly-published letter he sent to Netanyahu last May.Support the show: http://www.charliekirk.com/supportSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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All right.
Welcome to the Charlie Kirk Show.
I am Andrew Colvett, executive producer of this fine show.
And there, of course, is the empty chair of our fallen comrade and our dear friend and brother, Charlie.
And here to help honor his legacy is one of his dear friends, Steve Dace.
And we're so honored to have you.
We were texting back and forth, and you were like, I'm going to move heaven and earth to get here to do this.
And we're just so honored to have you.
I know Charlie loved you and trusted you.
So welcome, my friend.
I appreciate it.
It is truly an honor.
And I think the appropriate measure of leaving his chair empty because it just signifies a void that just cannot possibly be filled.
And stop by the memorial on the way in.
But the war and the battle still has to go on.
And it's up to the rest of us now to all do our part to pick up the pieces and fill the void that his loss leaves.
Yeah, I mean, well said.
And I mean, Blake knows there was few very trusted voices in the sort of inner circle that he would hit up for advice, where are you at on this?
And Steve was one of them.
And I know that we got a front row seat to that.
And so people have asked me, it's like, well, who are you inviting in?
And I'm like, well, the people Charlie loved, you know, and that's been very clear.
And I know that, Blake, if you want to chime in, you were not on the show today, so I want to make sure we, or yesterday, so I want to make sure you're.
Yeah, no, no.
Charlie had a, we talked about, you know, the other day how Charlie had this great humility.
He was always looking for input from other people.
He was always willing to change his mind.
He had no embarrassment when he did change his mind.
And so he cast a wide net.
Absolutely.
You know, it's funny because, you know, I mean, I think this is fair to say.
I hope I'm not putting, we didn't even talk about that.
I was going to bring this up.
But, you know, during the primary, we sort of had different POVs on stuff.
But it was like, it never mattered to Charlie.
And Charlie was like, well, listen, I'm on this.
I'm kind of seeing it this way.
We love you.
And you guys, I mean, just had a great synergy like that.
I mean, he texted me right as soon as it was over.
And he said, listen, don't quit.
We need you.
Stay in the game.
Stay in the fight.
We're going to need you.
Tell me about your shirt.
Oh, so this shirt.
They can't see it from the stream.
There we go.
It says go hard.
Yeah.
So Charlie was about six inches taller than me and everybody else, for that matter.
We did a Freedom Night at his church in June.
And it's interesting because I had a whole bunch of media call me after his martyrdom because it just got released on social media the day before.
And so I think a lot of media thought we had just done this and we had actually done it a couple of months ago.
And just as we were getting introduced to go out on stage, he leaned down into my ear and he said, go hard.
And Sloan at TPUSA Faith, I texted him when I started getting all these media requests.
I'm like, hey, what's appropriate?
What do you think you should do?
I don't want to overstep my bounds at all.
And Sloan's like, well, just do what he whispered in your ear that night, go hard.
And I just thought that is a phenomenal memory.
And I had the wife go out and print up a shirt for me.
I love it.
So that I could remember it.
And that's what I've been trying to do ever since is to honor his memory, is just to go hard.
And I think it's a reminder.
And if you see, we've lost Vodi Bockham.
We've lost Dr. James Dobson, so many spiritual giants this year.
And Charlie is obviously a Titan among them.
And it's another reminder that none of us knows for sure when that is, it's our time to go.
And that's, I think, what we have to do to make sure we use the time we have to be good stewards to redeem the time, as the word says.
And that's to go hard.
But it doesn't just mean go hard for truth.
Andrew, it means go hard for loving people.
Go hard for grace.
Go hard for mercy.
Just in general, for the kingdom, go hard.
Yeah, amen.
And so we've got a lot of breaking news stuff to cover on this show, and we're going to do that.
And also, we have Borders R Tom Holman.
He's going to be joining us in the second hour in studio, which is phenomenal.
But, you know, I have to start here, Steve, because you, I am so insulated in some ways.
Like, our days are packed from the time I wake up to the time I go to bed.
We're just busy, busy, busy.
There's so much to work out, so many details, so many phone calls, so many relationships you need to keep up.
From the outside looking in, what has this meant, losing Charlie?
What does this mean to the country?
What does this mean to the movement?
Give me your perspective on what has just transpired.
What just transpired is we had the largest proclamation of the gospel in terms of volume of ears and eyes reached in the history of our species.
And what just transpired is even the providential history that I knew Charlie was trying to push us back to as a country, call us back to as a country.
And you always have a tendency to look back on the past and kind of view it with nostalgia as if those people somehow tiptoe between the raindrops and didn't struggle with their own sinfulness and manifestations therein that we do today.
And that's not necessarily true.
But those are traditions that obviously we are coasting on the fumes of in our time now.
And I think even during the most providential times in our nation's history, we have not seen high-ranking figures, including the president and the vice president and cabinet officials, stand up in front of the world and proclaim the gospel as boldly as what happened at the memorial service here a week or so ago.
I mean, it's what you're really watching.
I think if it's not a revival, Andrew, if we're not watching revival, I think the Holy Spirit is at least testing us to see if we're ready for it.
And, you know, a couple of years ago, I was invited to a small gathering of Christian leaders around the country in Dallas, Texas.
And it was essentially, hey, where are we as a country, as a culture, where are we headed?
And at the end, one of the eldest guys there, it was like a scene out of the Constitutional Convention where Ben Franklin gets up there and says we have to stop and break for prayer as the elder statesman.
Because we all said we need revival.
We need revival.
We need revival.
And the elder statesman gets up there and says, are you guys sure you know what you're asking of God?
Because we're too comfortable and complacent right now for revival.
We won't receive it if he sends it.
So if you guys really want God to send revival, then you're asking him to turn up the heat of persecution and suffering to condition us for what it will take for us to truly turn to him.
And I think Charlie's martyrdom was at the very first, you know, metaphorically, a shot across the bow of turning up that heat.
And the amount of people, I mean, I listened to yesterday's show in its entirety and that opening montage you guys played of young people all over the country, haven't been to church in ages, never been to church, never picked up a Bible.
I'm going now, right?
And that is something that Christianity produces, the paradoxical nature of Christianity.
It's called redemptive suffering, and no other worldview presents it.
And the world's worldview says to avoid suffering and be utilitarian and the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one, right?
Star Trek, right?
But Christianity actually says that the Lord leaves 99 behind to find the one lost sheep.
And Charlie's life, I think, embodied that.
And that's why you saw so many people that stood up and testified it out of that memorial.
I have a question for you, actually.
You know, we saw one of those videos, a guy was like, I put on my suit and I'm going to church.
And there's this other story out of Lipscomb Academy where all these high schoolers put on suit jackets and ties to honor.
I haven't quite put my finger on what that is, but what do you think that is?
I think it's this idea that maybe I'm standing on holy ground and I need to clean up my act a little bit.
And listen, it's Casual Friday at the Steve Day show every single day.
My audience doesn't see me in a sport coat.
You wear those?
I know.
You actually talked about this.
You're like, I'm putting on a jacket for Charlie.
I did it for Charlie.
I didn't actually tie that together, but you're right.
You did the same.
And I think it's recognition that I need to clean up my act a little bit.
I need to raise the standard.
And Charlie raised that standard.
And now I am challenged to meet that standard now.
Yeah, I just, I think it's a really beautiful thing.
You know, you look back at these videos and movies from the 1950s or the 40s, and everybody's always dressing.
Even at like baseball games and sporting events?
Yeah.
Yeah, they had class and they had dignity.
And it's interesting, this impulse that I'm seeing from, you know, they could be work in the oil fields.
They could be, you know, like this guy, you could tell, he's like, I've never even worn a suit before, but I put it on.
I'm going to church.
I just think it's an interesting impulse because there is this thing within the culture.
We've gotten so lazy, lethargic.
We've gotten so casual.
And there's a part of that, like, listen, there's a time and a place, but, you know, the fact that people feel called higher, I think, is a really beautiful thing.
Steve, you know, is it Dees or Dace?
You know, the family actually does not know.
So I was told it was Dace.
The family, some of them would say it was Deese.
So I just think Dace sounds better.
It's pretty cool.
It does.
And plus, I loved Ace Freely was my favorite KISS member as a kid.
My mom used to put the makeup on me and stuff.
You're going to lose me there.
But I mean, I watched Happy Gilmore, so it's fine.
I know.
So I got to tell you, so you're an Iowa guy.
And this story is shocking the country.
It's not the most breaking news.
It happened a couple days ago, but this Ian Roberts character out of Iowa.
So he's an illegal immigrant.
An illegal alien.
And he's had a deportation order since last year.
I'm talking to you about this.
So Ian Roberts.
This is shocking because it's Iowa.
Yeah.
And so he's making almost 300K a year as the superintendent of Des Moines schools.
And Jackie Norris is the just, and this is what's so weird about Iowa, because of the caucuses, we get all pictures.
There he is.
Yes, we get all these influxes of national influences into our state all the time.
And so Michelle Obama's former chief of staff is the head of the Des Moines school district.
And just that would not happen in a state of our size in any other state, but because of Iowa, there's just these political headwinds there.
And so they hired this guy who's had a deportation order from the what do you have to do to have a deportation order from the Biden administration, by the way?
What do you think you have to do to get one of those?
So didn't he have it?
He had like a weapons charge.
There's so many things that make this bad.
So more stuff is coming out over time.
So for example, he originally got a student visa in Maryland and that expired.
Didn't leave, of course.
Or he's registered to vote in Maryland.
Registered to vote.
Visa overstays drive me absolutely mad.
Certified that he was a citizen to get this job in Iowa, for which he presented apparently a social security card and a forum testified to identity theft or something.
Yeah, he was in possession of a loaded handgun.
That's illegal to possess if you're not legally in the country at all.
Let's see what else.
His voter registration remained active, even though he was moving to other states, but it became inactive.
Wait, hold on.
Blake and Steve, I was told that illegals don't reliably informed.
This does not happen.
The state board of elections in Maryland is obstructing efforts by the Department of Justice to investigate this because of the same state nonsense.
It's showing how corrupt and ridiculous system is.
We actually basically have to say blue states, especially are in a sustained systematic effort to engage in immigration fraud and engage in voter fraud.
Yes.
And the most rational thing you can do at this point is basically say blue state records are like not valid for things.
Their driver's license are not valid drivers.
So here's what this is exposing.
What you're talking about is that once there is an exposure, the light comes to the darkness, there is an incentive for these blue districts and municipalities, blue states to then cover it up and not expose it.
So not only are you contributing to the problem, you're insisting that it continues.
And I've heard a lot of people say, well, how could this have happened?
How did he pass any kind of screening?
You have to understand, and this kind of ties in in a way with what Pete Heckseth announced this morning, right?
We're going to actually do war here now.
We're going to have warriors now and not social engineering.
And you have to understand they did do vetting and they did do background.
It's just there's a, you know, I like to say on my show, Andrew, that worldview is destiny and no one can rise above their own worldview.
They did vetting according to their worldview.
They were looking for a DEI candidate.
They were looking for someone that would subvert American culture.
They were looking for someone that would subvert your children and help them to do a better and more efficient job of turning your children into gay race communists.
And that's exactly why they hired him.
They did a thorough vetting.
They got exactly what they wanted to do.
Just their vetting standard would be different.
The worldview that they're operating with is different than ours.
So things like, well, are you actually a citizen?
That's just a minor technicality, especially because they use the schools, for example, to replace your way of life, to hijack your culture.
This is absolutely, you're watching replacement theory play itself out.
They act on their worldview accordingly.
That's a conspiracy.
That's a conspiracy.
Except for when it's not and it actually happens.
Yeah, except for when the illegals are in charge of our school districts.
Correct.
So not only do you have woke commies that have insinuated themselves, basically complete saturation within our school systems.
Yes.
Now you have illegal immigrants that are getting paid.
As the kids say today, Andrew, it's not a bug.
It's a feature.
It's a feature.
This worked exactly as it was intended to.
They just didn't think they would get caught.
1,000%.
And here's the question, Steve.
Do we abandon the institution and build our own?
Or do we try and re the long march back through the institutions?
What is your prescription?
I think first, what we have to agree to do is that we will wield the power that we actually have.
I don't think we've even earned the right to answer that question yet.
That's fair.
I think we have to, and I think like the government shutdown that's happening right now or may occur.
Are we going to actually use the power that the people elected us and gave us?
Because I think we don't decide that, then that other question becomes moot.
Yeah, no, I mean, there was this graph.
I actually retweeted it as well.
But it was talking about the share of conservatives or registered Republicans at these elite universities.
And I think at Harvard, it's like, you know, 1%.
I think the best, surprisingly, was UCLA at like 11%.
And the guy quoted who tweeted, he said, if we don't fix this, we can fix nothing.
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Got an email here from one of the listeners.
She said, Hi, all.
To Andrew's question regarding suits, Charlie elevated every standard by his words, his actions, his disciplines, choice of music he plays for his children, classical, not sure about Jolene, a little wink face, his incisiveness, incisiveness, and more.
I'm older, but I remember when pastors wore suits and had the Christian and American flags up by the podium.
And then we wanted to appeal to the world outside the church doors, went from suits to Hawaiian shirts, question mark.
I wonder if that casual dress reflected a more casual approach to biblical truths.
Thank you, precious people.
Thank you.
And it doesn't have a name there, so we'll leave it.
But yeah, I mean, I think that's right.
I think when you up the game, you know, a lot of people want to follow suit, Steve.
I chuckled at the reference to Hawaiian shirts because I go off on this all the time.
The pastoral uniform in today's churches, Hawaiian shirts, even in January, although I guess in Arizona you can wear those, but not where I live.
Sweater vests year-round, pleated khakis, right?
Nicer than God.
The graduates of the seminary of the Pensian Sisters of Perpetually Furrowed Brows, okay?
That kind of stuff.
There's a third tablet the Lord forgot to give Moses at Sinai.
He forgot it.
It just has one commandment on there: thou must be nice in all things, no matter what, right?
That kind of stuff has just plagued the American church.
Institutions in general, I see this email from this listener, and I'm like, you know, we've just seen this degradation of all the institutions, a lack of standards across the board, which ties in to what Pete Hegseth did this morning, which I just, you know, I chuckled at it because I don't want to get the clip here, but Charlie raged against what, Blake, fat generals.
He juggled.
He would always go off on Millie because Millie was like, yeah, like the big wide man.
He was really into White Rage or something.
Yeah.
He would just be like, why don't you just put the donuts down, Tubby, and like look a little trim?
Yeah, well, so let's give a little Heg Seth love here.
Play Cup 44.
Frankly, it's tiring to look out at combat formations or really any formation and see fat troops.
Likewise, it's completely unacceptable to see fat generals and admirals in the halls of the Pentagon and leading commands around the country and the world.
It's a bad look.
It is bad, and it's not who we are.
You know, I have this weird sneaking suspicion, Steve, that, you know, Charlie and Pete were very close, and Charlie would rail against this stuff.
I'm pretty sure he would tell Pete about this stuff.
Like, part of me is just very aware that Pete is channeling a little bit of the Charlie Kirk gumption, the get after it spirit.
So this one's kind of personal to me on two fronts.
One, I have fought a battle of the bulge in my own personal life for the last decade.
You're looking great.
I appreciate it.
We're making progress, but I would still be probably what Pete would consider a fat general.
All right, but I'm not a general, so he's right.
The generals cannot be fat.
And then my son-in-law, shout out to my daughter, Anna, and her husband Steve.
He's a soldier.
And so, you know, he's gone through all of the recent fitness standards and things of that nature and upping your game where that's concerned and the various incentives therein.
And I just, you have to ask yourself what every previous generation of Americans, regardless of how they voted, regardless of how they voted, what would every previous generations of Americans until now have said to the idea that we literally have to stop the military from getting fat?
What would they think we just let, how bad did we let go of the rope system-wide as a culture?
That you have an illegal alien is the superintendent of the largest school district in one of America's states, and the secretary of defense/slash war has to tell his soldiers to stop being fat.
And I think that, and Charlie spoke a lot to this with the young men.
I think this is where the anger and frustration of the Zoomer generation is coming in.
They're looking at us, their parents and grandparents, and saying, what were you guys doing for the last generation that you left us this big, giant mess?
How did you guys just systemically get so comfortable and so complacent that every single institution is degraded, if not weaponized against me before I ever step into full adulthood here and try to become a husband, father, business owner, and productive American?
I think that's so, I think that's so well said because, you know, Charlie was a big believer that this is the greatest country in the history of the world.
And we say that proudly, we believe it.
I believe that America is providential.
I believe God has his hand on our country.
And yet, and yet, if you look at just the DMV, if you look at the post office, I mean, Blake loves to rail against shipbuilding.
We can't make things anyway.
We can't make anything.
How did we get here?
He's giving this speech about our generals being fat.
But let's say we had to be in a conflict with China, like a real conflict with China.
And it would just be over.
They can make drones better than us at probably 50 to 1.
They can make ships better than us 200 to 1.
They can make more planes.
They can make more of everything.
75% of our antibiotic supply is made by them.
We'd be totally hosed.
Yeah.
Completely.
Well, I mean, listen, I do think that the American spirit, just like in World War II, would rise and we would find ways around this stuff.
We didn't win World War II with spirit.
We won World War II with we could make 200 more.
No, I totally agree.
I'm just saying, you know, but we ramped up very quickly.
We would be forced to ramp up very quickly again.
And I do believe we would.
But Andrew, this is worldview is destiny again.
The military we had before is exactly what the left and the spirit of the age wanted.
This wasn't an accident.
They weren't aware that they were making us weaker.
It was a managed decline.
They were doing this on purpose.
And I think we need to come to grips with that on our side because if we don't come to grips with it, then we won't.
That question you asked me a while ago.
We won't, we'll say stuff like, well, if we do this to them, then they'll do this to us when they have power.
They're already doing everything to us.
That's exactly right.
They're already doing everything to us.
So to me, either we will use the power vested in us by the voters in order to punish evil or evil will continue.
Let's talk about this more because I sent a note to Pete.
I have no idea if he'll see it, but I just said, great job.
That took balls.
It really did.
It took courage.
And that's the least common of all the virtues.
And that's what it's really going to take: is that our leaders getting courage to do the hard things because you know that the New York Times and Tahanisi Coates and Nicole Hannah Jones are going to write nasty little grams about you in the New York Times.
And Joe Scarborough is going to call you a fascist or whoever's going to do what.
It takes guts to look these demons in the eye.
I'm not necessarily calling them demons, but there are real demons and they heal insults.
And Charlie was, I mean, amazing at basically like laughing off the attacks.
How do we use power?
What is the so we, this is something that we have talked about a lot on this show is that we must use power.
Right-wing revolution, Charlie's book, was all about, it was actually a counter-revolutionary book, by the way.
It was, we don't want blood in the streets.
We want to restore the idea of the founders.
We want to store the Constitution.
And the idea is, is that we have to use power to restore this.
We can't be afraid of it.
So what is blocking us?
What's blocking us is twofold.
Number one, we've had a passive church for a generation.
I totally agree.
That has watered down masculinity, the idea of initiative, power, that complacency was the highest virtue.
Being nice was the highest virtue.
So we haven't been properly catechized into what this, what meekness means.
When Jesus says the meek shall inherit the earth, what does it mean?
Meekness is power under control.
That's what it means.
But a lot of our men, whether it's absent-minded fathers, absent-minded masculinity in the pulpit, have not been discipled into what it means to use power under control.
And then the other problem that we have is with the so-called phenomenon of the uniparty.
And this is what movements like what TPUSA is a part of, what Trump has done to break up this idea, well, you know, all the names you just mentioned.
I think everyone with the sound of my voice should scream at your radio or at your screen right now.
Why does anybody I'm voting for give a rip what any of those names think about them?
Totally.
But here's the thing.
All those names you mentioned, they are very relevant.
Unfortunately, a lot of the people we've been voting for for a long time do care more about what those people say about them than what audiences like this says about them.
And those two things are what we are up against.
And so when we get elected, when we have power, listen, we have a code, right?
We have to love our neighbor as we love ourselves.
But there's another code also that says in Romans 13 that the purpose of government is to be an avenging angel to bring the sword of righteousness against evil, to punish evil.
The only reason Almighty God allows sinful human beings to govern themselves on any level or have governments at all is to keep the moral order, to punish evil.
And we have to do that.
And I think everything, the whole rules of engagement and traditions and decorums throw all of that out.
All right.
And here's the new rule.
Here are the new rules of engagement that I'm going to suggest to your audience.
Everything other than explicitly what the word of God says we cannot do to win, we're going to do everything else.
That's it.
Those are the new rules of engagement.
All right.
So we're not going to bear false witness.
We're not going to break the Ten Commandments.
All right.
We're not going to set up our own idolatries to mimic theirs.
We'll never be as good at it as they are anyway.
Okay.
All right.
But anything short of what the word of God says we cannot do, we're going to do everything else.
And I want your audience to also know we're not even close to that line yet.
We're not even close to crossing that line yet.
And it's because of soft churches that a lot of guys think, well, if I hurt somebody's feelings, if I go to the school board meeting and offend them and they scream at me and throw me out, I mean, did I do something wrong?
No, the exact opposite is true.
You did something very, very right.
So go back again and make them throw you out again and go back again and again and again and again.
And I think this is where our rules of engagement, guys, have to dramatically change.
And Charlie understood that.
And the reason why he had conviction in the face of the critics you're talking about was his worldview.
He understood ultimately to whom he belonged.
He understood ultimately what the source of truth was.
He understood ultimately what the source of justice was.
And so he didn't view their opinions of him as something to be concerned about because he was actually opposing their worldview, not trying to appease it.
Yeah, I mean, there's that great clip of Charlie.
I think we played it yesterday.
Gosh, all the days blur into one lately.
But yeah, where he just knew.
He was asked, what is your role here?
He's like, my role is to confront evil and proclaim the truth.
Jesus said, for this reason, I came into the world to testify to the truth.
Yeah, absolutely.
And so it's, you know, you look at Pete Hegseth, you look at Anna Paulina Luna.
You look at, there's people that stand out for their courage to speak up and be loud and vocal.
And we're going to need more of that.
And one of the legacies I hope that Charlie ends up leaving is that we have a reformed and robust conservative movement with leaders that are not afraid to speak truth and power and to make the demons shudder in high places.
So, Steve, we've got Tom Home and Borders Are coming on next.
Let's start setting the table for borders, boundaries.
This is something Charlie liked to talk about a lot.
He got so mad at all the pastors who are just like, well, the Bible says you have to love other people.
So really, that means you just have to have an open border, man.
Yeah, we just love the aliens.
So set the table for us.
You got about a minute, minute and 20 seconds here.
Does the Bible believe in borders?
100%.
And there's a reason the founders look so much to the Old Testament because they thought, well, God established himself a nation once.
So let's look for a precedent on what, you know, he wants.
What are the laws of nature and nature's God?
Boundaries were strictly enforced Forced in Old Testament Israel.
You had to assimilate.
You know, Charlie was fond of saying that immigration without assimilation is invasion.
You had to assimilate, for example, the book of Ruth, a book that's often quoted at weddings like my own.
But what happens is Ruth is a Moabitis.
So she's not allowed into the assembly of God.
She has to convert.
And what does she say?
That's where that verse we say at our weddings, your people will be my people.
Your God will be my God.
She has to convert.
She has to assimilate into the religion of Israel and follow Jehovah and leave behind her old way of life in order to be put in and grafted into that covenant.
And so those were the models of assimilation that we displayed and showed and followed for two and a half centuries in America until this last generation.
Yeah, I think that's really important.
We're going to play some clips from Charlie, Charlie, talking about borders, because it was actually one of his most passionate issues because it was, to your point, Blake, it was one of the most often bastardized parts of scripture by your just run of the mill pastors or by especially mainline or just non-religious people doing that.
Like, well, the Bible says you have to let me do everything I want.
Be gracious to the alien in your land.
Yeah, but it doesn't say let 10 million of them flood your borders.
That's called an invasion, folks.
There's so many good.
I can't even pick which one.
You Blake, you pick which one.
Let's just start with 59, please.
59.
First, we must start and acknowledge there's plenty of scriptures that say you should love the foreigner because you were once strangers in Egypt.
Leviticus 19.
I mean, there's plenty of scriptures that say that.
There's also an equal amount of scriptures that warn you about how foreigners can become your masters.
In the end of Deuteronomy, Moses explicitly says that in his farewell address.
We can continue that there.
Let's follow up with 63.
The warning in the later parts of Deuteronomy, where Moses is giving his farewell address and he warns the people of Israel before they enter the land of milk and honey: hey, be careful of foreigners in the land because they will soon be your masters if you have too many of them, if they multiply.
It's a very interesting teaching.
Yes, it is.
Right?
And that cautionary tale is not usually talked about in churches.
Usually it's all about open borders and all this.
Not compassion.
Yeah, not the equally caution that Moses gave to the chosen people before going into Israel.
Steve, your reaction, because we're about to have Tom Holman Borders Are.
He's going to be in the studio.
We're so honored to have him too.
And we're going to be talking about all of this stuff going on with ICE, this degradation of the respect for the rule of law.
The Bible is very clear on borders, nationality, and the drawing out of righteous lines that delineate nations.
And I think we have to explain why.
It's the maintaining of a heritage.
So as the second temple period begins and Zarababa goes back to rebuild the temple and Nehemiah and Ezra are now helping to rebuild the walls and dedicate the temple, Nehemiah finds out that they've gone back to allowing foreigners into the covenant, into the temple.
They're doing all the same mistakes they did before, which is what led them to go down in the valley of Ben-Hinan or Topith, which is a Hebrew word for hell, and throw their babies into the fire to Moloch.
All right.
And so how does Nehemiah respond?
Mass deportations.
Nehemiah, mass deportations.
You're doing it all over again.
We're making all the same mistakes again.
The point of the wall and the border is to maintain our heritage.
So mass deportations.
And I think it's very important for people to understand: sojoiner and squatter are not the same thing.
And often they get conflated.
And what you're being sold is that you have to give squatters' rights to illegal aliens.
And no, you don't.
You have every right biblically to protect your heritage, particularly one that is based in the providential nature, such as ours.
So squatters and sojoiners are not the same thing.
One more, Charlie, clip that I think is good.
It's not just that borders are biblical, but like nations are biblical.
It's not, you know, we might be one body of Christ, but we're not like all a bunch of automaton robots.
So let's do a 64.
We have this in Genesis 11 when Nimrod wanted to create a one-world government, a oneness of humanity.
And God hated it, actually.
God spread it into different nations and people, and we got diversity out of that moment because when you have the one world government, remember what Nimrod said, he said, we are going to make a city upon our name, in our name.
And so God decentralized power by definition.
And there is no better way to decentralize power on the planet than having hundreds of different countries and different cultures and backgrounds and people and languages.
So therefore, you then can logically get to the idea of borders and boundaries, which again is a biblical idea.
And, you know, in the last public speech he gave in Japan, that was a thing he said.
He talked about, you know, what globalism wants to do is it wants to take, imagine taking everything at a Thanksgiving meal.
You know, you've got your cranberry salad, you've got your turkey, you've got your stuff, you've got your mash potatoes, just putting all it in a blender and just blending it until it's the slur.
I totally agree.
This is diversity.
This is variety.
Yeah, two things stand out to me.
Yeah, as we're just talking about this.
Charlie used to always say that borders are where bad ideas end and good ideas begin.
And you can see that by the way, a country is run poorly or if it's run well.
And, you know, and just, yeah, just this sense of this idea of diversity.
It's such an important point, Steve.
And, you know, I'm going to give the last minute to you here.
But diversity is, you know, their idea of it's putting them all together and you get this mush, this mix-up.
But actually, borders preserve diversity.
They preserve heritage.
Correct.
So when you, you know, okay, the floor is yours.
And what you'll note, you'll always know they're lying when the power and the policies they pursue grant them more power and control.
The progressivism, leftism, spirit of the age, whatever you guys want to call it, it has two primary hallmarks in all of its language, in all of its policies, in all of its dictums, all of its practicums, power and control.
And so that usually means they're doing the exact opposite of what they promised you they're going to do.
And it almost always means they're projecting unto you that which they're actually doing.
You can count on that every single time.
Steve, really quick, tell people where they can follow you, your show, where they can watch it.
Easiest thing to do, follow me on X at Steve Day Show.
Everything I do there is everything we do is catalog there.
It's indexed there.
At Steve Day Show, D-E-A-C-E on X. Yeah, and Charlie loved watching your show.
So if you want to be like Charlie, watch Steve's show.
This is the Charlie Kirk Show.
We are all about saving babies with pre-born.
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I'm joined by a really dear friend of both the show, Turning Point USA, and of Charlie's.
And that's BordersR, Tom Holman.
Thank you so much, Tom, for making this trip out of your way to come see us.
You got it.
Thanks for the invite.
Yeah.
Well, listen, you know, I just want to start with the obvious question.
You know, you're sitting next to Charlie's empty chair.
You know, you're hugging our team.
I mean, I can see that this means a lot to you and it's affected you.
So, you know, what has this meant to you?
And, you know, where do we go from here?
You know?
Well, look, I'm a pretty tough guy, but what happened to Charlie broke my heart.
There's your heart right on your chest.
Me and Charlie talk quite often, and I believe what he was doing.
What he was doing is a big part of saving this country, just like President Trump.
Why came back twice from retirement to help President Trump save his country?
So I made a commitment to Charlie and Turning Point.
I'll do anything I can to help this organization because of the great work you're doing.
Again, to help save this country.
This country is turbulent.
And I think Charlie brought out discussion.
Get people to start thinking, keep talking.
Because talking is better than violence.
The day of the incident, I was in my office in the West Wing.
It just broke my heart.
You're such a good man.
Just trying to open dialogue between those who hated him.
I often do the same.
I give speeches, and I know a lot of people don't like Tom Holman and what he does.
But we don't shy away from getting out there trying to get the truth out.
So I'll do everything I can for Turning Point.
Thank you, Tom.
Because I think we both just want to get the truth out there.
We both want a better country.
We both want a country better for our kids.
That's exactly right.
Well, Tom, I know that I speak on behalf of not only everybody in this show, but everybody at Turning Point and Erica, when I say that you are a good man and you're a patriot.
Charlie loved you and respected you.
And when you came back for Trump 2.0, you know, we knew that you were the right man for the job and that you had the guts and the courage to do the job.
And I know that Charlie loved you.
I know you love Charlie, and turning point, we still love you.
The Charlie Kirk Show, we love you, and we thank you so much for making this extra special trip.
I know Arizona is a place you do a lot of work anyways, but I'm so grateful that you came and made this special trip.
So you honor us.
Me and Charlie talked a lot.
I've done this show a lot of times.
Matter of fact, I was supposed to be in El Paso doing an event with you.
That's right.
You were going to be on the tour?
Yeah, I was going to be on the tour.
Looking forward to it.
But again, I think turning points are good hands with Erica.
I just had a conversation with her.
So proud of her.
Me too.
Such a strong, strong woman.
So I think turning point, people ain't seen anything yet.
I think this whole organization is going to increase a thousand-fold.
We're going to 10-exit, Tom.
We're going to 10-exit.
God bless you.
We're going to make this, as Erica says, the biggest thing you've ever seen.
We're going to do it for Charlie.
We're going to do it for this country.
We're going to do it because God compels us.
And we're all committed to that vision.
And Erica set the tone, and she deserves a lot of respect.
And she has the respect of the team, both here at the Charlie Kirk Show and at Turning Point, Turning Point Action.
Tom, I want to talk to you about something that impacts you personally with what you're doing with the Board of Patrol, ICE.
And that is this rising violence, this tide of violence.
And it is left-wing vigilanteism.
And it's shocking and terrifying.
I'm going to play it.
This is a new clip.
Fox News Rutgers University has done a new poll.
And I want to get your reaction.
Play Cut 57.
I'm going to ask you about this Rutgers report.
Good morning.
On the Network Contagion Research Center.
This is their conclusion, okay?
Users online are increasingly associating the memeification of Luigi Mangioni with calls for political violence against Elon Musk, President Trump, and others, reflecting the growing cyber-social presence of assassination culture.
And Aisha, you have some findings that they have here on justification.
It's alarming.
And I want to put this up here.
This is a justification for murder of Elon Musk and Donald Trump.
And you'll see here, they found that when it came to the left of center, 50% thought that it was justified to murder Elon Musk.
56% for President Trump.
So just to reiterate, Rutgers University has discovered that 50% of left of center respondents believed it is justified to murder Elon Musk for his opinions.
56% believed it's justified to kill Donald Trump for his.
And I'm assuming had they asked ICE agents about ICE or ICE agents, that number would have been similar.
What do you do in an environment like this?
Don't stop.
Don't stop.
Don't fold.
You know, my dad taught me as a young teenager: never go start a fight, never go look for a fight, but don't run away from one either.
We're not running anywhere.
It's amazing.
This is not the country I grew up in.
And that's what was great about Charlie and President Trump.
They want that country back where, you know, we can talk our differences and not be violent.
So it shocks me.
It shocks me to hear that.
I didn't know that just a couple minutes ago.
Yeah.
That this is really where we're at as a nation.
I truly believe the vast majority of Americans are peaceful.
Me too.
God-fearing.
American-loving people.
But you got that fraction of people that have just lost their minds.
I mean, attacks against ICE officers is up over 1,000%.
And what people don't, if you stop and think about it, ICE officers, they're not heartless robots.
They don't hang their heart on a hook every day they go to work.
They're moms and dads, too.
They're sons and daughters.
And they put a gun on their hip and put a bulletproof vest on to go do their job.
And they don't make a lot of money doing it.
And the hate for them toward them is based on a lot of faults, negative rhetoric being pushed by members of Congress, members of the media, mayors, governors of sanctuary.
Well, let's play some of this then.
This is because a lot of this right now, the story is around Chicago.
It's around Portland.
And I know that there was a lot of protest.
I would call it worse than protests.
It's riots.
It's violence.
It's intimidation.
It's thug culture.
It's Antifa culture.
And, you know, you've got Oregon governors and, you know, Tina Kotek, you know, saying there's no insurrection.
There's no threat to national security.
Play cut 33.
I have been abundantly clear with them that Portland and the state of Oregon believe in the rule of law, and we can manage our own local public safety needs.
There is no insurrection.
There is no threat to national security.
And there is no need for military troops in our major city.
Military service members should be dedicated to real emergencies.
The members of the Oregon National Guard, their mission is to stand up and protect Oregonians, and they will do that every day, but they are not needed in the city.
They are not needed here.
Your reaction.
She should take a drive around Portland.
I just was in Portland three weeks ago.
I was at the ICE facility that's under attack every night.
Matter of fact, I became a little angry because of the damage done to the building, the graffiti.
And I asked the person, one of the people there who's in charge of security, why are we not cleaning this up?
And he says, well, because we'll have to clean it up again tomorrow because I'll come right back and damage the property again.
You're talking about people damaging United States federal property with a felony.
You're talking about following our employees home from work to their homes.
Putting them at great risk.
She ought to go look at the ICE facility.
Go to the ICE facility and sit there for 24 hours and see what these men and women deal with every day.
Yeah.
Balance of Nature would like to take a moment to honor the life and legacy of our friend Charlie Kirk.
Charlie dedicated his life to inspiring each of us to live with a greater purpose.
He wholeheartedly believed in meaningful conversations and the power of building stronger communities together.
He taught us to be engaged and responsible citizens, leaving us with values that will continue to echo through generations.
Charlie was not only a leader, he was a friend to everyone at Balance of Nature.
In his memory, Balance of Nature is committing to a culture that chooses compassion to live with purpose and to ensure that dignity has the final word.
Hear about it from Charlie in his own words.
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You have 35% off plus a free bottle of fiber and spice.
Borders are Tom Homan is with us in studio paying his respects.
And also, you know, you're drawing a line in this end.
You're saying you're not going to back down.
I just showed you that terrible new report from Rutgers University about the Maggioniism, the Maggione effect, the assassination culture.
And this was an interesting thing that happened last night.
It's Cut 56, if you want to get it ready.
This is Nick Shirley, who does sort of street journalism.
He goes out with a camera.
He gets confronted by an Antifa militant, now who's a domestic terrorist, and he's threatening him.
And all of a sudden, these lights start shining on this guy.
So I want you to explain what happened here.
And this is in Portland.
And this is the clash between, you know, domestic terrorists and federal officers.
Play cut 56.
I have the right to be here.
Okay, did I say?
I have the right to be here.
I have the right to film.
You have DHS watching you right there.
Lasered on you.
I have a sniper lasered on you right now.
I don't give a f ⁇ .
Stop it.
Stop sticking your camera in people's face.
I didn't do anything wrong.
You have a sniper on you right now.
You have a sniper on you right now.
What's going on in that clip?
Well, look, you got somebody trying to, you know, they think they have the right to protest Antifa and turn that protest into criminal activity, damaging federal property, assaulting federal agents.
But they don't want journalism anywhere around because journalism is going to tell the truth.
And they don't want the American people to know the truth.
You know, they want to play the victims.
You know, we're in a situation now where the bad guy is the victims and the good guys want to enforce the law trying to make this country safe again.
They're the bad guys and the bad guys are actually the victims.
You got to completely turn around.
And teachers are good guys.
You're the victims.
Ice the bad guys.
Here's a journalist trying to show the American people what exactly happened.
They don't want that.
They don't want the truth out to American people and what exactly they're doing.
Check out this tweet.
This is from Ron Wyden.
And 221, throw it up if you can.
Trump is launching an authoritarian takeover of Portland, hoping to provoke conflict in my hometown.
I urge Oregonians to reject Trump's attempt to incite violence.
Oh, so it's Trump.
It's President Trump who's inciting violence in all your ICE agents just for existing.
In a vibrant and peaceful city, by the way, this is completely garbage on its face.
By the way, Portland is rife with this militant faction of residents that have been pandered to and catered to and treated with kid gloves for so long that they feel that they can run roughshod over the city of Portland.
What do you say to this accusation that President Trump is a fascist and authoritarian and he shouldn't be deploying troops in American cities?
President Trump's trying to make his country safe again.
And a lot of these sanctuary cities, they're not safe at all.
I just said I was in Portland a few weeks ago.
It's not safe.
I saw the damage they do.
They attack the building every night.
And look what President Jim did in Washington, D.C. Look at the crime.
Oh, that got reduced within days of his action.
He made a promise to the American people he's going to make this country safe again.
If that involves troops, then so be it.
It's going to make those neighborhoods safer.
You would think the mayor of Portland and the governor of Oregon would be calling President Trump up and thanking him to come to the table and help him, giving them resources to make those streets safe again for their constituents, for their taxpayers.
100%.
Let's play a clip that would reinforce your point here.
This is a Portland resident praising President Trump for deploying the military to squash this.
This is cut 34.
I am so happy that Trump is sending the National Guard in here.
I live in this building.
Actually, we both live in this building.
We've been asking for help for months, and we're finally going to get it.
When do you think they're coming?
When?
Not soon enough, man.
Not soon enough.
That's a real resident.
He lives right near the ICE facility, and he's been living with this domestic terror group assaulting federal officers.
Not to mention, Tom, what happened in Texas, where you had somebody shooting up an ICE facility.
Is this how, what's the spree de corp of Border Patrol and ICE?
I mean, we had all this surge of applicants.
Are we still seeing that?
Are people staying strong?
Are they staying on mission?
Oh, absolutely.
The morale is at an all-time high because they're getting to force the law.
They're getting to all the hold of the oath they took when they signed up to do that job, whether it's aborbit or ICE.
And what people need to understand, all this fake rhetoric about who ICE is arresting, right around 70%, 7-0% of the people ICE arrests aren't criminals.
But the left are saying, well, they're not criminal enough.
Well, they're criminal.
And the other 30% includes national security threats who don't have criminal histories.
And people who have final orders, they had due process at great taxpayer expense.
They were ordered removed by federal judgment, but became a fugitive.
ICE, if you actually look, go to the ICE website.
Look at the data.
You see, without a doubt, they're making these streets safe again.
One illegal criminal at a time.
Of course.
So, what's the little animal there?
Oh, well, yeah, that's the little animal there is Charlie's daughter watched the show every day.
And so she would give him little toys to take with, and he would test her.
He would put the, he would show the toy or he'd not show the toy and test her.
Did you see it?
Did you see me lift it up?
And he would mention it on the show.
And she's like, yeah, I saw it.
It was really a beautiful, beautiful thing.
And so we're just leaving that.
We're leaving that.
Yeah.
So, Tom, as I said, if people want to get involved, they want to apply.
They want to be a part of the solution.
Maybe they're 20, they don't know what they're doing with their lives.
Maybe they're 35 and they're at a job that they don't want to be at anymore, and they want to help the country.
They want to help be a part of your mission.
Where do they go?
How do they apply?
What can they do?
Do you have a problem?
There's a lot of places you can go.
You can go to USA Jobs and you see the announcements there.
And look, what I would ask people to do is go to the CBP website, Customers Border Protection website.
Look at what they do.
Look at what ICE does, because ICE does a lot of different things.
You have HSI and Aero.
Do your research and make sure that look at what their mission is and see if you agree with the mission, if you want to be a part of the mission.
And in addition to that, you don't have to be a fragile agent and carry a gun to make this country great again.
Get involved with your local community and educate your community on the benefits of enforcing the laws of this country, making this country safe again.
Whether it's run for city council, run for mayor.
Go to the voting booth.
It isn't just about the presidential election anymore.
This starts at the bottom.
So get active in your community.
Get out there and vote.
Use your right from anything from a city council member all the way up to President United States, get involved.
But we'd welcome them.
We're hiring 10,000 members.
You're welcome.
Exactly.
All the patriots.
So it's ice.gov forward slash join.
Ice.gov forward slash join.
Tom Homan, you're a great patriot.
Thank you for joining us.
And we have your back.
I know you have ours.
And God bless you.
Thanks for having me.
I appreciate you.
The honor's ours.
This is Lane Schoenberger, Chief Investment Officer and Founding Partner of YReFi.
It has been an honor and a privilege to partner with Turning Point and for Charlie to endorse us.
His endorsement means the world to us, and we look forward to continuing our partnership with Turning Point for years to come.
Now, here Charlie, in his own words, tell you about why ReFi.
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All right, Steve, you're back.
Really quick, just I have to say, because I was in the room and I don't know what you guys saw or didn't, but I mean, I don't know if the camera picked it up, but Tom Homan was emotional.
And that really affected me because he's kind of a tough guy.
Not kind of, like, he's a really tough guy.
The guy's packing heat all the time.
He's got his family in, you know, hiding because of all the death threats.
He's as tough as it comes.
And I just, you know, I obviously knew it meant a lot to him.
I knew he wanted to come into studio because he was going to be in Arizona.
We made that.
And even though you were coming, you were gracious enough to make time.
But to see him get emotional was really hard for me, actually.
So I don't know if you guys saw that, but it just shows that you could see as he was walking out.
You just think there's so many people.
Charlie was so involved in everything, so enmeshed in everything.
So everyone's met him.
Everyone's interacted with him.
So many people in the administration, you know, probably not Homan specifically, but so many people had their jobs in the White House because Charlie advocated for them, pushed for them repeatedly.
And, you know, he was taken from us in such a horrible way.
And also, big picture, it's really shown how what the stakes are because some people choose to raise the stakes in that way.
Yeah.
I mean, Charlie was the greatest example of apostolic levels of giftedness I've ever encountered in a human being.
And you can just, you can see that.
You know, some of us can be jack of all trades, master of none, and be pretty good at a lot of things.
Very few of us can be excellent at multiple things.
And that was him.
And then you can see the lives that he touched at the exact same time.
And you can see, you know, there's something, there was something about him.
We talked about this with the young people dressing up to go back to church.
And, you know, when you get to my age and older, you hope that you've earned the cachet and the respect with your friends and family members and your sphere of influence when you've got more gray and salt in the beard, that there's that idea that, oh, so-and-so is in the room, so I better kind of come correct.
I better raise my standard a little bit.
Like, might be certain things you might say at your house.
You don't say them at Nana's house.
Because Nana, she'll get up with the walker and she'll get the roller and take it to your backside if you say that.
If you talk like that in her home, right?
You didn't swear in front of Charlie.
That's right.
Charlie didn't swear.
I never heard Charlie swear one time.
I'd never heard it either.
You know, and I, if somebody was going to hear it, it would have been me.
Right.
But yeah, he would, I remember he would always say to people, he's like, remember, guys, like, you know, fifth graders are listening.
You know, 12-year-olds are listening.
Please.
And I just love that.
I mean, the fact that you felt compelled to raise your standard around him.
And it wasn't because of there was a humility about him at the same time.
So it's not like he was a lack of self-awareness.
No, not at all.
It was so different from there are a lot of people who have a strong effect because they're just very domineering.
And he was not domineering.
What he was was, I loved that apostolic line you mentioned that what really burst out of him was the constant sense of mission.
He was always doing his mission.
Even when he was taking a break, it was this, oh, this is the break in my mission, and it's quite temporary and delimited.
And it's because I still have my responsibilities to my family, and that's my mission too.
He never, I always love to say that people would ask me if I hung out with Charlie, and I said, I don't know if Charlie has ever hung out in his entire life.
Well, the funny thing to say was the joke was, like, I tried having fun once and I hated it.
Yeah, exactly.
But he could have fun.
He could have fun.
He was.
He actually had a lot of fun, but it was when he was at work with his colleagues and peers and people he's laboring in.
What he would never do is he would never say, oh, I was planning to do this thing tonight.
Ah, forget about it.
Let's just go go-karting or something like that.
He would never punt on something important to be lazy, to be casual.
And not a lot of people can do that.
I can't do that.
And it really made him exceptional.
So I'm going to go.
I'm going to veer this conversation into something that broke on the news last night.
And that was, and I was asked about it on Tim Poole.
I was honored to join Tim's show last night.
He's actually broadcasting from Turning Point.
And, you know, he's actually going to help co-host the show tomorrow.
So we're really excited about that.
But they asked me about this letter that Charlie had written to B.B. Netanyahu.
And this was something that we were very aware of.
We didn't think it was controversial at all.
It apparently leaked.
It was about a seven-page letter that he wrote in May.
And it was his encouragements and his admonitions, his admonishments, rather, to the way that they were handling their PR situation.
He was like, hey, listen, I'm out on an island here.
I have to defend you all the time, and it shouldn't be my job.
It should be your job.
Give me, from your perspective, because I know you talked about Israel with Charlie.
You talked about all of this stuff.
What is your perspective on that letter?
What was your perspective on the reaction to the letter?
And what was in the contents of it?
So I did read the letter last night.
And I mean, essentially, it's everything I ever heard Charlie say about this very topic publicly or privately.
Both his support and love of Israel and the Jewish people, his concerns about whether or not we're going to just label everybody that has disagreements with Israeli policy.
I mean, hey, during COVID, when we were pushing back on that, I mean, I was very critical of the government of Israel during that.
B.B. Netanyahu launched probably the worst lockdown of any industrialized country, free industrialized country in the world.
His successor, Naftali Bennett, I mean, I even said on my show, guys, I'm like, has he not read a history book?
Do we not understand the last time we turned the Jewish people over to a biomedical fascist state?
I mean, Naftali Bennett basically allowed the people of Israel to be Pfizer's human trial on behalf of the rest of the world.
Naftali's politics would be considered left-leaning politics.
Yes, yes.
And so are we going to say, though, if you have criticisms of their policy, we're going to automatically jump to the anti-Semite card.
At the same time, we have a rising tide of anti-Semitism on the right that I know Charlie was greatly concerned about.
In fact, him and I, he was discussing with me how we could organize an evangelical specific pushback to that.
Just literally in the last days before he died, we were having those conversations.
And one of the things that we talked about in order to, because how do we, because we're undergoing a generational sifting right now in the church, the two primary denominations you're seeing young men return to en masse are Catholic and Reformed Protestantism.
And even though there's deep doctrinal differences there going back to the Reformation, yes, they both have the historical Christian view, pre-dispensationalism of the nation of Israel.
Explain that, though.
Pause at pre-dispensationalism for those who don't know.
Long word.
So before dispensationalism, the church primarily believed that the covenant with Israel was fulfilled when Jesus said it is finished.
Not just the wrath of God is finished, but that covenant is finished.
The ultimate role of Israel was to bring forth Messiah, and that has been completed.
And especially when in 70 and then in 110 AD, when this temple was destroyed in 70 AD and Jerusalem was ransacked in 110 AD, that early Christians believed that was the abomination of desolation at the Olivet Discourse that Jesus was warning about.
In fact, one of the great divisions in the early church were, remember, everybody's a Jew at first.
It's just a matter of whether they believe Yeshua is Messiah or not.
And so when they watched the Roman legions go into the temple and defile it, they viewed that, the early church, as though this is what Jesus warned us about, the abomination of desolation.
So they fled, right?
And the non-Messianic Jews stood and fought.
And that created some traditional division between these two camps going forward, was that moment.
And so the early church believed that that was the fulfillment of that prophecy, that it was over.
Most of them did.
There have been some sects that believed that there was going to be a future iteration of Israel later.
And then Augustine comes in in the fourth century, and this overwhelmingly now becomes, Augustine's the most formative figure in the church in the post-canon era.
And much of what the reformers wanted to reinstill was just old Augustinian versions, views of Catholicism, frankly.
And so, this idea that sometimes it's called replacement theology, I think it's more complicated than that, that essentially now Israel's role in the prophetic timeline is fulfilled, and now this is the era of the church.
And we could do that.
That's pre-dispensationalism.
And there's always variations, guys, and there's always debates when these people are.
So, when would you say dispensationalism was on the rise?
A lot of people look at the rise of the Schofield Bible.
And that does have some, you know, it's funny.
I saw John Rich do that show with Tucker Carlson about a year ago, and I kind of chuckled at the controversy because I got converted when I was a local host in Des Moines.
And so I started asking all these questions.
I don't know.
And I start bringing people on with these various views.
And man, the amount of controversy it caused 20 years ago in Des Moines, Iowa, all right, let alone what it's going to do when I show the size of Tuckers to have this conversation.
But there is part of that.
But here's the thing.
The dispensational churches, particularly coming out of the Moody system, they were the ones when the mainline Protestant and mainline Reformed and mainline Lutheran churches that had the historical view, when they went mainline and then went apostate, it was the churches that were sending around the pamphlets called the fundamentals all over the country.
That's hence the term fundamentalism.
They were the ones that held on to orthodoxy that did not become apostate.
And so many Christians, particularly in the older generations, I'm an Xer and boomers, had no idea that there were other views about Israel and prophecy because the orthodoxy that was being taught came strictly out of dispensation.
Some people don't know this, but Catholics have a whole prayer.
I believe they pray it at Israel or an Easter.
The Easter Vigil has a lot of prayers, and one of them is for the Jewish people.
They say to God, to come to save faith in God.
For those who do not believe in Christ, they kind of have to say.
Now, Spurgeon, I'm a big Spurgeon guy.
Spurgeon detested dispensationalism.
But he also believed there was going to be a future reconstitution of Israel with the intent of a great revival in the end times.
He also believed that.
Charlie would talk about this a lot, too, about one of the best arguments for Israel is the land rights, because God promised the land to Israel.
His promises are never ending.
So yeah, you could talk about who the fulfillment of the church is.
Is it Christians?
Is it the Church of Christ?
Is it Christ's church or is it Jews?
It's a big topic.
I didn't know we were going to go here, but this is fascinating.
So you're walking through this history, and you're saying the rise.
So the church was mostly pre-dispensationalist.
And then at some point, would you say in the early 1900s?
Early 1900s, for sure.
The ascendancy of dispensationalism, which in a nutshell means that when the Bible's talking about who the church is or who the people of God are, he still means the Jewish people to some extent.
Yeah, that there's the Jews and the Christian and the Gentile church are on dual, D-U-A-L, dual tracks of redemption, of prophetic redemption.
And we're in the age of the Gentiles now.
And when the church is raptured, and that will be the end of the age of the Gentiles, and then God will turn to the Jewish people one last time for the fulfillment of that covenant.
And then we'll usher in the second coming of Christ.
Pre-dispensationalism believes that the church is the fulfillment.
Yes.
Now becomes the same thing.
And people within these camps don't even agree with you.
And by the way, just so the audience is clear, within these two camps, if you think of them as the sort of two ends of the spectrum, there's multiple camps in the middle and variations of each.
We could do a month of shows on this and just scratch the surface.
This is why, because the Bible, it's complicated, right?
Because Paul's talking about, well, you're in grafted branches, which means that, you know, we're like wild olive.
And that's why I think we should, and this is something Charlie and I definitely agreed on.
That's why, while we're going to have this debate, and it needs to be had, okay?
We're a generation past two having this debate.
Are we still dispensational?
Are we historical?
In the meantime, Islam hates us all.
That's exactly what we're doing.
And we need to focus on that.
That's where we're going to land the plane.
You read my mind because if there's anything that is clear to me about the last few months, it was that he had a laser pinpoint focus on raising the flag, sounding the alarm about the rise of Islam in the West.
You know, the point of that letter, and I just want to put a pin on that, and then we're going to go to Islam, is Charlie called what Israel was doing PR malpractice.
And, you know, it's kind of like the Bible says the wounds of a friend can be trusted.
He was respectful in tone because he's speaking to a world leader.
But, you know, it was a private letter because it was pretty brutal, actually.
It was saying, you know, this is bad PR.
And Charlie would say on the show, the Israeli PR and the lack of confronting this information machine that's against you is malpractice and you need to fix it.
Which is a great argument against a Zionist conspiracy that controls the world.
Well, exactly.
And they have such a bad PR mission.
That's a fair point.
And I always think the other good point is that, you know, if they control the world, why is the UN so against them?
But, you know, why is it fixated on them?
But the point is, Charlie was less concerned about that and more concerned about this rise of Islam in the West.
You see this in places like Dearborn in America.
You talk to politicians in Michigan, by the way, and they're like, well, I can't say that because I've got, I've been in these conversations because I got to say things because there's so many Muslims now.
Charlie was warning against invaders that would rule over you.
And that's an example.
It's a soft, that's how it happens.
That's how it starts.
And then you go to a place like London.
You were with him in London.
What was he saying when he was in the street?
It was so jarring when we went in London and we get in this very posh, tony, whatever, choose your word that you want, in central London, and storefronts have the lettering in Arabic.
We were staying in, he was staying in a pretty decent hotel.
If you turned on the television, there's as many television channels that are in Arabic as in English.
They had Saudi TV, they had Lebanese TV, they had Pakistani TV, Qatari Egyptian.
They even had the Saudi children's channel.
So it was showing a Spiral of the Dragon show, but in Arabic.
And it was so jarring for him to see that.
And then he's talking to people, and they're saying, yeah, there's thousands of mosques in London at this point.
People are running and getting elected to parliament on a free Gaza platform.
Well, and then you go to France and the women have to wear subway shirts because the immigrant men are not used to seeing young women in tank tops or whatever.
And there was, you know, obviously you have the rape gangs, but it also affects just the body politic because now you have to start speaking to this new contingent of voters.
That is only growing.
That's only growing.
And they're having ways to do that.
People are bad at the math of this.
They'll think this is a 4% minority.
It's not a big deal.
Yet in 25 years, they've grown to 8%.
And they're still growing.
And so you can do the math and say, yeah, by 2050, the UK is going to be 25%.
There was that terrifying clip out of Denmark where this Danish guy is getting into a fight with an argument with the Muslim immigrant.
And he goes, in 10 years, you don't have any babies.
We have lots of kids.
He's like, we are going to control you in 10 years.
Here's the thing.
For 1,200 years, there was no nation on earth called Israel, but we still had Islam.
And so if you think, I'm not saying we don't have to rethink some of our aspects of our alliance with Israel.
But if you think that we are incurring the wrath of Islam because of our alliance with Israel, I'm going to disprove it right now.
For 1,200 years, there was no nation on earth called Israel, but we still had Islam.
How did Islam treat the Christian West during that time?
It went to war with it the entire time.
The Holy Roman Empire was formed because the Muslims had taken Vienna and they were a block south of Paris.
So this idea that if anything, if anything, Israel is actually a cudgel between us and Islam.
If there were no Jewish state in the Middle East, all of that energy would just all be directed at us.
And I think we can have, and I want us to have the big prophetic debates.
We're a generation overdue.
Your boomer parents were wrong to care more about Israeli defense force maneuvers around the Temple Mount than the school board in your local neighborhood.
They were wrong.
So well said.
And you're right to rebuke that.
But let's also have a historical perspective and understand that Islam hates Jews and Christians alike.
We're all people of the book.
And so whatever prophetic view we have of the nation of Israel will not alter what Islam thinks of Christendom whatsoever.
And it will still try to conquer you, nevertheless.
And Charlie understood that.
And that, I think, is where we are going to be able to find unity on this.
Yeah, I mean, there's no doubt that it was probably the thing he railed against the loudest and the most in the final days.
And, you know, we have to come to grips with the fact that Islam is a political and a military ideology wrapped in a religious context.
Separation of church and state is not a debatable tension in Islam.
Yeah, it doesn't exist.
Steve, please, really quick, where can people follow you and watch your show?
At Steve Day Show, D-E-A-C-E on X. Everything we do is all cataloged and indexed there for the Blaze and everywhere else at Steve Day Show on X. This has been a pleasure, my friend.
Again, I just want to reiterate, Charlie loved you and he trusted you.