Why are men moving so hard to the right, yet also avoiding many Christian churches? What does it mean when people say the church is now "feminine," and what does it portend for Christianity? Charlie had a lot to say when he spoke to the Christian organization Ziklag, with a particular focus on how modern feminism has infiltrated the church and must be removed — for the good of both women and men. Watch every episode ad-free on members.charliekirk.com! Get new merch at charliekirkstore.com!Support the show: http://www.charliekirk.com/supportSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
My conversation at Ziklag, where I go through the very obvious but important differences between men and women and why is it that the church has become so feminine.
Email us as always, freedom at charliekirk.com.
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Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.
Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus.
I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.
Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.
I want to thank Charlie.
He's an incredible guy.
His spirit, his love of this country, he's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point USA.
We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.
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Hello, everybody.
Thank you, Lance.
That was great.
Great to see you guys.
Honored to be here.
And it's much more festive than the last time we met a couple days before the election, right?
I was, yeah, you can celebrate.
It's good.
Glory be to God, right?
A lot better.
And I mean, it must be repeated that what happened, of course, back in November, we're living through is a moment of grace.
We did not earn it.
It really is the Lord's providence on many different ways that Trump's life was spared on the 13th of July in Butler, Pennsylvania, that so many sequential events.
And I see this opening and this opportunity.
I know you guys have been talking about this a lot here.
Lance is doing a phenomenal job.
We are in complete harmony with what Lance is doing, and we want to be helpful with Turning Point USA and TPSA Faith.
But I want to give you just a short update from the front lines, kind of to play into what you guys have been talking about with the real divide in the country, which is male versus female, talk about that and how the church, I think, is not properly addressing it.
So, as you know, I visit college campuses, so you guys don't have to, and we are in the midst of an even more ambitious campus tour than what we saw in the fall.
I'm visiting, I think, 27 college campuses, almost one every single day.
Tomorrow is Boise State.
Thursday is Washington State.
Last week, we were at Illinois, University of Illinois, Illinois State, Purdue, University of South Carolina, and Michigan State University, drawing crowds of three, four, five, 6,000 people.
Students in the middle of the day, largest events they have on campus, coming in in record numbers.
Praise the Lord.
We don't compromise at all on truth what we talk about.
We talk about the Lord.
We talk about transgenderism.
We talk about abortion.
I'm going to get into that because I think it's really instructive and helpful for how we think about how the church should address this moment in culture.
And by the way, one of the reasons why these students are showing up in record numbers is they tell me how dissatisfied and underwhelmed they are with American Christianity and the church.
And I'll tell you, and I'll build that out further.
So we're on tour.
Many of you have probably seen the videos.
They've kind of become somewhat of a cultural phenomenon.
If you haven't seen the videos, it's okay.
Ask your grandkids because I can almost guarantee you.
They're watching the videos.
But it's fun.
It's raw.
It's authentic.
Anyone can come up to the microphone, ask me whatever they want.
We're there for three hours.
I was joking around with my wife.
I tallied up the math.
I spent seven and a half hours over a 24-hour period talking to college kids.
And so we have some of the most entertaining dialogues imaginable.
Literal Satanists show up to our events.
We had one last week, Cole Satanist with the goat head.
And I rebuked him in Jesus' name, and he fled.
As the scriptures say, that's exactly what happened.
And so, no joke, you can watch the video.
I'd say, I'm not kidding.
I say, flee Satan, and he just walked away.
It was one of the craziest things.
Didn't say anything.
He just literally just walked away as if he was being ushered away.
So the truth of the Bible on full display on a college campus.
So I am kind of like an unofficial, let's just say like generational anthropologist where I could tell you what's going on with the species and what's going on with the next generation.
And I say this as you guys know my heart, as humbly as I can say it, probably better than almost any expert on TV.
I could tell you actually what a young person is thinking, what they're going through, what's motivating them, what's driving them.
Because I talk to so many of them.
And it's different than other people that say they talk to young people.
I don't just go give lectures and leave the room.
I am feet away from hundreds of thousands of young people throughout the year.
And I could feel their anxieties, their emotions, their passions, their ups and their downs.
And so it is first just, and we see this in the data, but also up front, you guys know this, and it's worth emphasizing.
There's something so promising and encouraging happening with the men of the West.
It's not just America.
It's happening in the United Kingdom.
It's happening in Germany, where young men under the age of 30 are actually even more conservative than their grandparents.
And so I want to just repeat that, that if you take an average 21-year-old man, whether it be black, Hispanic, Asian, or white, they are actually more conservative than an average 75-year-old man.
In fact, again, this is not a criticism.
I say this on my show all the time.
People get mad about it.
Baby boomers are moving more to the left and Gen Z is Moving more to the right.
You could decide not to like that, but it's the truth.
Baby boomers are much more likely to say the institutions don't need to be revolutionized.
They don't like the talk about how our system is rigged.
Again, I'm sure there's plenty of exceptions here in the baby boomer department.
But also, where do you get your information from?
If you're a baby boomer, you're watching CNN, you're watching cable news, you still trust the newspaper.
Where a young person is getting it straight from the source, they're getting from TikTok, Instagram, YouTube, X, and some of these decentralized places.
So, when you look at the data, the men of the West are moving dramatically to the right.
And that's incredibly inspiring.
Let me tell you why this is happening.
And almost no one will tell you this.
And I will not give you a doctrinal or theological perspective on this.
I'm going to just tell you an efficacy one, which is women giving men orders, especially in the church.
It's very simple.
Why are men going to the right?
There's like 15 reasons for it.
The one that no one mentions, young men don't like taking orders from women.
Very simple.
You could disagree at that.
It is a truth of nature.
Right?
I mean, no one says this out loud.
No one likes saying it.
And no one wants to repeat it.
I'm not saying it's a good thing, but 17-year-old men detest at their core, especially a shrill, you know, person who needs the Lord to tell them what to do.
Even worse, to tell them that they're bad for existing.
To tell them that they are, at their core, just dust.
That creates a sense of rebellion.
And we have seen that cultural rebellion that almost nobody in the media wants to diagnose.
It's fine.
We've taken full advantage of it.
We're enjoying the harvest.
It's fine.
Keep ignoring it.
And, you know, Gavin Newsome on his podcast.
He's doing the hand thing, you know, when I go on there, right?
He's like, why are young men moving so far to the right?
Again, young men don't like to take orders from women, and they certainly do not like to have a hyper-feminized, anti-masculine agenda that is presented in every form or fashion.
Now, the easy way to explain this is like, okay, it's just a war on men.
It's fundamentally deeper than that.
It's laced in everything.
So if you understand identity politics, I'll give you like a crash course in identity politics.
We have a biblical worldview.
We believe there's only two categories, saved and unsaved.
That's all that matters at the end, right?
Jesus will literally divide the sheep and the goats, and he'll divide.
He says, either saved or not saved.
I know you, I don't know you.
That's the only distinction that we believe that ultimately matters in spiritual dimension.
The left, they view completely different.
You guys know this, oppressor, oppressed.
They view everything through that lens.
So their worldview is on Israel, who's the oppressor, who's the oppressed, right?
Israel must be the oppressor.
Palestinians must be the oppressed.
When it comes to domestic issues, it must be, well, the white people are in charge and the black people must be oppressed.
So that is an extension of economic Marxism.
Economic Marxism views the world through the bourgeoisie and the proletariat.
Bourgeoisie are the business owners.
The proletariat are the employees.
And so what Herbert Marcuse did in the Frankfurt School post-1950s is he extrapolated the economic Marxist lens and then applied it to the cultural Marxist lens.
Said, instead of looking at the bourgeoisie versus the proletariat, we're going to apply it to race and gender.
So it's more than just class.
That is critical theory and cultural Marxism in a nutshell.
You guys should repeat that to all of your neighbors whenever you're going for a walk because that's what's going on.
Okay, that explains 99% of all of our problems.
So therefore, you must come up with a villain.
If your whole life is viewing things through the prism of not right versus wrong or just or unjust or moral, immoral, which how we view the world, we view the world through is it right or wrong?
Is it pleasing to God or displeasing to God?
Is it closer to the decalogue or further from the decalogue?
Is it Christ-like or not Christ-like?
That's our prism.
They simply look at things through who's in power and is who not in power.
So therefore, the ultimate villain that they have concocted and created is honestly what you are looking at.
A white Anglo-Saxon Protestant, heterosexual, happily married man who is also has two kids, conservative and Christian.
Like, I am the villain, right?
And so, especially one that does not play around with their rubbish games of like taking a knee compulsory for your existence.
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Let me just take a time out.
If any pastor that you know cannot just tell you what I just told you in 90 seconds on cultural Marxism, they need to be lovingly confronted and rebuked by you.
And you have to stop giving money to that church because they have no idea what they're talking about.
Okay?
And I know this is like scant golf applause.
That explains all the problems.
No, because you're like, well, my pastor is really nice and really sweet.
Let me say that again.
They are not equipped for the spiritual warfare of what is coming through the doors of their church, of what is educating their future youth pastors, of what is educating the people that are coming in to go become saved.
They have to understand that.
So as a secondary, though, if white Anglo-Saxon Protestant men, and then by definition, you know, further all men are the problem, they've created their victim identity politic group, okay?
They have created the group that must be hated at all costs and pathologically.
So the men of the West have realized this over the last five years, and we've started To resist it, we started to resist it through social media.
We started to resist it through our advocacy.
And you see this with Joe Rogan and Theo Vaughn and all these different channels that are ascendant.
And yes, we are resisting it through our votes.
In fact, 18 to 29-year-old men were the most dramatic move of any demographic into this last election cycle, more so than any other demographic.
They moved over 25 points in President Trump's direction.
And mind you, this is the takeaway point.
There was no like special super PAC dedicated to this.
There was no multi-billion dollar Koch brother-funded, ridiculous, we have to go reach out to the Hispanic Project dedicated to this.
There is no like, we need to start a new media company just for young men.
No, by the way, could you imagine saying that?
People would be like, no, what are you, a sexist?
No, instead, it was like Charlie Kirk, Turning Point USA, and like a couple of our truth tellers, and it happened largely organically as a resetting and a rebalancing.
Sometimes we shouldn't fight God's design or nature, and we should look at imbalances in nature and just try to reconfigure it.
Like, oh, wait a second.
Like, instead of having this like crazy thing, yeah, the Hispanics are going to vote to us if we talk about amnesty.
That's so stupid.
Maybe it's like, I don't know, like let men be men.
Like it's a much easier sell.
Like just let nature come back into alignment with God's design.
Like that's a better political strategy than all these other like concocted corporate funded secular BS that we've lived through.
So we've seen the men of the West resist this.
They don't like taking orders from women.
They certainly do not like the totalitarian impulses that we've seen designed.
And even beyond that, this is where it becomes like, let's just say more controversial, but it's fine.
If the church is serious about reclaiming culture, again, this is where people are going to get a little uneasy, we must crush feminism at its core.
Feminism is a byproduct of the worst possible impulses.
And again, I'm not here to say you can't have female pastors.
I think Paul is great.
I'm not taking a theological position on that.
You guys can go debate that over coffee.
That's not interesting to me.
What is interesting to me is feminism.
Feminism is an outgrowth of this idea that first and foremost, that the woman must be liberated.
You guys should all agree, read the feminine mystique.
If you want to read the original anthem of where feminism came from, it is the feminine mystique by Gloria Steinman, where she literally was like, I am a prisoner in my home raising children.
And I must have my shackles released.
And I am going to be liberated from the prison of my home.
And by doing so, the world will become a better place.
And women will then go into the corporate career and we won't have to, you know, go just bear children and we'll be happier and we'll be like men and we'll be able to make good decisions.
Feminism is in the church, everybody.
And it is hard to find pastors that will tell the women of their church, don't actually go get a job and go pursue a career.
Go be a stay-at-home mom.
It's very hard to find.
And do you know what is ironic?
Is that the women actually want someone to say that?
What I find when I go to these campuses is there's millions of young women that are like, can someone please make it societally acceptable, but I don't have to go work in a fluorescently lit corporate office for 10 hours a day from some corporation that doesn't know my name to go put numbers in an Excel spreadsheet so that I can go work to the age of 32 to not find a boyfriend and have to go home to a bunch of cats.
Like, that's not appealing to me.
And yet, where is the church?
The church is like, well, I don't want to tell you to live your life.
The church exists to tell you how to live your life.
Like, what have we become?
Like, of course, the church exists to make moral statements.
And it's a biological fact.
If a woman is not married by the age, if she does not have children by the age of 30, there is a 50% chance she will not have kids at all.
I did not make that up.
And yet we have more unmarried women that are 32 than are married.
They have big apartments in Denver.
They have money.
They can go travel to Thailand, but they're miserable.
And that's not just me saying it.
It's not like Charlie Kirk is saying something that's not true.
It is a material empirical fact.
So if the church is serious about healing the sick and winning the culture, let's take a step back and say, who's suffering the most?
Yes, I get it.
We got to help the homeless and we got to feed the help the people that are infirmed, all that.
But societally, the most unhappy people in America are people that were raised in a Christian environment and thrust into a corporate world and believe the material secularist lie.
And by far, they're screaming to us in data after data, survey after survey, poll after poll, conversation after conversation.
I wish I could just go marry a man and be a mom as God designed it.
And for whatever reason, we're like really hesitant to say that because like, I don't know, like some Chardonnay wine mom's going to scream at the back of our church and like send an email?
Like, no, I have no kids.
I'm 46 and I'm happy.
I'm sure you got your life together, okay?
But the numbers are the numbers.
And we all know people that are suffering under this, okay?
And we should have compassion enough for them.
This is what drives me crazy.
People say, Charlie, how do we have compassion?
You have compassion by telling them the truth.
You get what you focus on.
And if you prioritize finding a mate, then you're going to find that.
And again, there are 28 to 30-year-old women that are all of a sudden doing TikTok videos, being like, wait a second, I'm 28 years old, and I want to date for a couple years and then be engaged for a year, and then I want to be married for a couple years and then have kids.
So I'll be 36 by the time I have kids.
And they're like, wait a second, maybe I should take more seriously getting married.
And here's where it's so perplexing.
Again, this is why feminism has driven this entire problem, which is like toxic to its core.
And I don't just mean third-wave feminism.
I mean feminism at its core is toxic because the most beautiful thing is a mom that stays at home and raises children.
The most blessed thing, the most godly thing, the most important thing, the most necessary thing.
And we as Christians have kind of gotten away from it.
We've kind of played into like, well, you can have it all type thing.
Okay, actually, you can have it all, but make sure you get the order right.
Have kids when you're 23, and then you can go back to college because college will still be there when you're 38, and go have a career in your 40s, and then you can actually go visit your kids in college and go to school alongside of them.
Instead, we fight nature, as is the modern way.
We're always at war with nature.
That's what secularists do because they don't accept God's design.
They're constantly fighting nature.
And they're like, no, no, no.
We're now going to do the most confounding thing.
We're going to say, yeah, I know you have this like prime window of fertility.
We don't care.
So for 12 years, when you are your most, like, you have the most energy and the most drive, we don't want to utilize that towards repopulating the species or raising godly kids, but instead to go sell shoes.
And how has that worked for us?
Exactly.
It's been a disaster.
So if you want to understand the male-female distinction, men are now going more conservative, they're going more to the church, but they won't go to your church if it's hyper-feminine.
I'll explain to what I mean that in a second.
And the young ladies will follow.
But it will only happen if A, there's more godly role models of women that honestly speak against this corporate nihilism that has infected young ladies' heads.
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We need more women to say you have been lied to.
The liberation is actually slavery.
You are working for a company that hates you.
And go find a man who loves you that you could pour into.
We need more women to say that repeatedly.
They need to say it in the church.
And it's not happening.
I'm telling you right now, it might be happening at your local church.
We know the church very well.
It's like they dance around on this topic, right?
Instead, it's like, well, you know, if you want to go pursue a career, you are lying to that young lady and telling her that she has a 50% chance of not having kids if she prioritizes her career the first 12 years of her adult life.
I'm just being honest.
And they will say in survey after survey, I want kids more than anything else.
If that's what you want more than anything else, then why don't you go hunt it?
Because then they'll tell you, well, because everyone around me, including my pastor, my parents, my friends, and my neighbors, say, you must go get a good job.
You must go get a career.
And then we wonder why it's the most suicidal, alcohol-addicted, antidepressant-addicted generation in history, where 30-year-old women, more than half, either goes, and I'm not assailing this.
I'm saying it's a fact.
They either go see a psychologist, see a counselor, they're on bezodiazepans, they're on Zoloft, they're on Xanax.
And you wonder why they've declared all-out blitzkrieg on something God designed them by the age of 28, which is called the red alert.
You better have kids soon or else those eggs are going to run out.
And that might sound cruel or insensitive for a man to say from stage, but if you want to win the culture, there is a harvest out there that you can't believe to get back to the roots of how God designed us.
Because we are now at the late stage of modern feminism.
And of course, hilariously, and then we'll take some questions, at the latest stage of modern feminism, of course, is like the greatest thing for sex crazy young men on college campuses.
Which, of course, so again, premarital sex, unfortunately, we can't find many churches that speak out against premarital sex anymore.
It's a very like taboo thing.
You think you're going to lose people.
It's bizarre to me.
I speak about it all the time.
I think it's one of the original sins of our modern culture.
Again, it speaks to the abortion issue.
It speaks to the birth control issue.
It speaks to the sex is so different for men and women.
And so what happens is that women are said, hey, be just like men and go sleep with as many people as you can when you go to college.
Just like political incorrect segment, if you're sending your Christian son or daughter to a college, they're almost certainly having premarital sex.
I'm just telling you right now, you might think, not my son, not my daughter.
Yeah, you should check on that, okay?
And it's fine, but that's what happens when you go to college because they go to strip themselves of their morals to go be part of the world, not go.
And by the way, at the Christian schools, it's the worst.
Let me just say, oh my goodness, it's worse than even at the public schools.
And I won't say any names of any schools, of course.
And all that kind of nervous laughter should is, of course, because the church has radically failed with this.
Radically failed, okay?
Because why?
They go have premarital sex because they think if I get married at 22, I'm some sort of weirdo.
But I'm not a weirdo if I have premarital sex and I hide it because it's considered to be strange to get married too early.
Do you see how these incentive structures all of a sudden create bad behavior?
Okay, so for a sex crazy young man on a college campus, all he thinks about is sex and sports.
And Bitcoin, right?
That's all they think about, right?
Sex, sports, and Bitcoin.
That's all they think about.
And so they, but so it's this very simple supply and demand issue, okay?
And you could fix the supply, the supply and demand issue is very simple.
I know I got you on the Bitcoin one.
Which is this, which is that what is easier to fix?
A 19-year-old's desire to sleep with a lot of women, demand, or this newfound, awful phenomenon of young ladies giving their body to every man who wants it?
Which one is easier to fix?
Of course the supply is easier to fix, because it never used to be that way.
Now, of course, there were exceptions, but again, this is not just my own opinion.
Women's sexual partners have gone up from an average of one to two sexual partners before marriage to now 20 to 25.
And for Christians, it's 15 to 20.
Again, you guys got to get in touch with the youth and actually what's going on here, okay?
It's worse than you could ever imagine.
If you're not familiar, there's this girl on X or whatever.
She brags.
She had 1,000 sexual partners in a 24-hour period.
Not a joke, not an exaggeration.
Goes totally viral.
It's a real thing.
It's called a body count.
You don't know that phrase.
You should know that phrase.
Your pastors know that phrase.
They brag.
In fact, it's a thing that they talk about when they meet somebody.
What's your body count?
How many people have you slept with?
It is like a token of accomplishment, right?
50 is considered like beginner phase.
100 by the time you're a sophomore is like pretty good, right?
This is what happens on American college campuses.
So what is easier to fix?
Because feminism has given men what they've always wanted, which is like they don't have to work for sex, they don't have to do anything, they don't have to be impressive, they have to breathe.
And literally, they get the better end of the deal.
Where it's still holding them hostage, but you know, the real issue is that the women become like catastrophically screwed up because of this.
And I'm not saying that as a pejorative.
Sex for women is intimate.
It is emotional.
It is spiritual.
And it can and will be for men, but men, first and foremost, it is physical.
If a woman has five or more sexual partners by the time she goes into marriage, it's a 75% chance for divorce in the first five years.
It's almost like a one-to-one correlation.
And we all know, of course that makes sense, right?
Because there's so many irreconciled issues going into that marriage.
Because there's attachment.
By the way, there's literal bonds that are created.
So, again, I say this on these campuses, and again, this is where I really don't care.
If women stopped giving their bodies over so easily, it would fix so many of these problems.
Because then men would have to become more impressive, aka grow up, and stop being boys in order to get what they want.
They would have to shave and shower and stop doing drugs and stop watching porn and be more impressive because then they couldn't get the thing that they ultimately desire.
And so it creates actually a better society.
So the incentive structure is for a 19-year-old that wants that more than anything else, is I have to be extremely impressive to even get that girl's attention.
How it works today is the opposite, is that the girls are like, I'm going to make myself as easy and as open for men as possible because I'm told that is the ultimate liberation because saving myself was a form of captivity.
Do you see how crafty Satan has been in all this?
And by the way, these are dynamics that go all the way back to the garden.
It's nothing new.
It's just repurposed.
Honestly, if you want people to come to your church, be as blunt as I'm being right now.
I know that might like, you know, oh, what do you mean by that?
It's like so much political correctness has come into the church.
So many pastors are afraid that they're going to lose people and lose their congregations.
And I say this, like how many Christian ministries that you guys know on college campuses are drawing 5,000 kids at a 12 p.m. at a random college campus with a couple days' notice?
I don't know a lot of them, actually.
And the reason being is they're starving for truth.
They're starving for an alternative perspective because they see the degeneracy all around them.
They've seen the collapsing of society and they know something is wrong and they don't exactly know what it is.
And to be perfectly honest with you, the church is missing the greatest revival that has been given to them in the history of the church ever.
Young men say, Charlie, I have to drive two hours to go find a church that I respect.
So that's the final point.
If you want to bring young men into your church, what is it?
Very simple.
Young men need to be told what to do.
Not hard.
And they need to be challenged.
They need to be prodded.
They need to be said, you are not enough.
That's the whole self-esteem thing, which is hyper-feminine.
Oh, you're perfect the way you are.
First of all, if you're perfect the way you are, why do you need Jesus whole things so insane, right?
Instead, it should be, actually, you're a mess.
You want to win over young men?
Say that they're a mess.
Like, you have a lot of work to do.
I'll say, like, what do you mean?
They're like, you're watching porn for two hours a day.
You're doing way too many drugs.
Like, you have no money in your bank account.
How about you start acting like a man and not a boy and do these things?
All of a sudden, they'll like, okay.
I'll go on that hero's journey.
That's the story of Abraham.
He was living in his father's basement until he was like 110.
I think it was like 92.
You guys could fact-check me, right?
The call to adventure is what these young men want.
I do not, I will allow Christian women filled with faith in the Holy Spirit to figure out how to communicate to the young women thing.
I think I know, but I'm not a woman, so I can't profess that.
I know I know how to talk to young men, and I know how to get them motivated to do something.
And it's not go follow your dreams or satisfy your impulses.
It's not indulge in your flesh.
It's not like make yourself feel good.
It's that grow up.
Do something more challenging.
And we've seen precursors of this, haven't we?
Why was Jordan Peterson so popular?
Why is Joe Rogan so popular?
But no one's actually yet done it through that biblical perspective to lead them ultimately to Christ.
They are asking for this.
And the church right now is really uncertain of how to approach it because they're afraid of offending too many people to get to the ultimate harvest.
More young men that I know of are converting to Catholicism than Protestantism.
Why?
Because there's a lot of rules in Catholicism.
There's a lot of rigidity.
There's a lot of order.
There's a lot of oughts and ought nots.
A lot of Protestant churches, honestly, it's like a lot of Jesus loves you.
It's not going to cut it for a 19-year-old boy that wants a military boot camp manual for life that wants to be able to go on an adventure.
