THOUGHTCRIME Ep. 88 — Tucker v. Cruz? The Bloodthirsty Base? Charlie Goes to the WNBA?
America hasn’t joined the Iran war…yet, anyway. Charlie, Jack, Tyler, and Blake discuss questions like: -Did the viral clash of Tucker Carlson vs Ted Cruz change people’s minds? And did both of them mangle the Bible? -Why do some conservatives seem eager to nuke Tehran? -Will Charlie finally attend a WNBA game? Watch every episode ad-free on members.charliekirk.com! Get new merch at charliekirkstore.com!Support the show: http://www.charliekirk.com/supportSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
We talk about a lot of things, including Israel, Iran, the WNBA, and federal lands.
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Here we go.
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Okay, everybody.
Welcome.
We are doing thought crime right now.
We have Blake.
We have Jack.
We have Tyler.
We have lots to talk about.
I feel like a few things have happened this week, Charlie.
Just a couple things.
What do you mean?
There's nothing news this week we talk about.
I don't even know what we're going to get into, really.
And I've just kind of been sitting at home this week.
No real idea what's been happening.
We need to get Charlie in.
Tyler, are you at the beach?
Are you at the beach right now, Tyler?
I am in Jack's world outside of Philadelphia.
That's right.
You had an Eagles game?
Saw that on your Instagram.
We know how much Jack loves the Eagles.
It will be NFL season soon.
Excuse me, I love the champion Eagles.
Thank you.
Charlie, speaking of you, you were saying whether you were in the news or not, I feel like it would be really funny if we could get you into Catholic-level religious retreats.
Go out for a week, put your phone away.
I've been reading a biography of an old emperor during Holy Week.
He's the emperor of the largest empire in Europe.
Holy Week, he would just go to a monastery for a week and do no official business.
That's amazing.
Imagine if you started doing that.
And then you just come back after a week and they'd be like, Charlie, we're, you know, World War III started.
And you're like, oh, oh gosh.
No, but Charlie does that.
I do that every Saturday.
Charlie, do you do that every Saturday though?
I do, yeah.
No matter what's going on.
You do the Saturday no phone.
Friday night, turning off.
So that's right.
Shabbat Shalom.
We get the message.
But Charlie, I gotta say though, I'm silent for a week.
What about when there's an event?
That is the exception.
It's hard.
I actually turn off my phone, but I do have to work.
But I did it without a phone, at least.
And it makes it actually a lot more relaxing, and I'm more present, for sure.
But I'd say four or five weekends a year, I have to work.
But it's just the nature of the beast.
So you have to sometimes have an exception.
Do you try to rotate it at all?
We're like Sunday then?
Yes, I try to make up on Sunday.
I try to.
It's harder because- And I was like, yeah, you've got to go through someone else.
But then I did get a message from you in the chat, and I was like, oh, maybe he is on his phone.
Yeah, so last Saturday at Women's Summit, I had it on in the morning, and then I turned off my phone the rest of the day.
I was like, yeah, this is too much.
By the way, it was like the Minnesota terrible story in Minnesota.
It was just like all this about Israel Iran.
I'm like, I can't.
It was crazy.
Yeah, it was too much.
It was literally information overlooked.
Speaking of which, so this episode might get a little dated, so let's try to make this in more of a timeless way.
We'll do it, but yeah, we can zoom out.
We're not obviously...
Let's actually, you know, do we have a piece of tape from the nuke boomer, Shane, that we can pull?
I actually think it's a very interesting place to start.
Right?
So on our program, there was one of our members, and I don't want to insult him.
He's a member.
He pays money.
Good for him.
I think it's an insane view that he has.
And thank you for being a member.
Two different members called us in during the hour, and this was non-sarcastic, right?
one of which said that there is no cost great enough if we were to invade Iran with ground troops.
Yes.
What's his name?
Haman?
Haman.
Haman.
He is the Persian vizier official in the Shah's court.
Just to be clear, Haman is closely to Hitler.
Like the Ayatollah is threatening to be Hitler, but he actually hasn't killed nearly as many Jews as like Haman.
I was telling Charlie this week that a lot of people don't realize – So there used to be hundreds of thousands of Jews in Yemen, in Egypt, in modern Iraq.
Those communities are gone.
They've moved to Israel or to the United States, and they're basically extinct.
Iran used to have far more.
Most of them did leave.
But there is a remnant of about 10,000 to 20,000 Jews in Iran.
You can look online.
There are Jewish-themed tours that you can go to in Iran that are marketed at Persian Jews who live in Los Angeles, sort of that.
They go on vacation there.
And I think this is my favorite part.
There is a constitutionally required Jewish affirmative action representative in the Iranian legislature that they have.
There's them.
They have one for them.
They have a couple for the Armenian Christians.
And I think they have one for Zoroastrians.
Yeah.
And so.
The Iranian government says that they're anti-Zionist, but they do not call for the extermination of the Jewish people.
That's good.
They're moderates, Charlie.
No, I don't know about that.
But, I mean, they did say this, though, that I don't think they're moderates, but it's important to note they say that.
But they say, Jewish Iranians have said, we are Iranian, we are not Zionists.
That distinction protects them politically, so there's 15,000 Jews still in Iran.
It's not a lot, but I mean, it's interesting because you would think that they would kill all the Jews.
To be clear, I think they basically are required to disavow Israel effectively to avoid harassment.
It's not it is not great, but.
You can go to Egypt.
I think there are literally like three Jews remaining in Egypt, and that used to be one of the largest Jewish communities in the world.
That's right.
So, all right, this is it.
So this is 419.
This is, okay, this is the boots on the ground one.
I think it's important because we have to try to define what the consequences of some of this stuff would be and how bad these ideas are, how morally troubling these ideas are.
Let's play cut 419.
So, very interesting question and thoughtful.
How many American troops are you comfortable with to effectuate regime change in Iran?
Oh, I don't know.
Whatever is necessary.
So if 10,000 American troops died, would you be okay with that?
I would.
I think this is the main enemy, not Iraq.
This is it.
Do you think Iran is a greater enemy than China?
Well, we can't defeat China.
See, that's an impossible scenario.
Okay, so just to be clear, you would be okay with boots on the ground in Iran?
I would.
Okay.
So, yeah, and then he was followed up by another guy.
But, Blake, so let's just take that one first, then we'll do the nuclear weapon one.
Why is Iran, even if we're like, we're going to invade Iran, why would that probably be a really bad idea?
Exactly.
This is actually why, well, I'm sure we'll get to this later, that, you know, that viral exchange between Tucker Carlson and Ted Cruz, like, how many people are in Iran?
A relevant question, especially if you're doing boots on the ground.
When we invaded Iraq 20 years ago, it had slightly over 20 million people.
I want to say 22 million or so.
Iran today has over 90 million people.
So that is more than four times the size.
And it's pretty spread out.
They're not all concentrated in one city or anything.
It's a – and then geographically, the country, Iraq, I want to say is like – I think you say like three times the size of Texas, about?
Two and a half times the size of Texas.
But also, even to get to Tehran, isn't it nestled within mountains all around it?
Yeah, it's a very mountainous country.
Very mountainous.
When we invaded Iraq, Iraq is Tigris River, Euphrates River, and almost all the people kind of live along those rivers.
You have some large cities, but it's all sort of in a line going down to the Persian Gulf.
It's a very fertile crescent.
Yeah, literally the fertile crescent.
Iran, it's, yeah, you have Tehran, a city of 16 million people, so that's about the size of New York, plus its immediate suburbs.
The Zagros Mountains to the south.
Yep, yep.
I can't remember all of it.
Come on, Blake, you have to know.
I used to compete in the Geography V. I forgot.
You've got to know every single city.
The Zagros Mountains.
Blake, can you not name every person that lives in Tehran?
I cannot do that.
I cannot.
I can name at least three cities in Iran, which I think that's the fun follow-up to how many people live there.
Name four cities in Iran.
Well, I can't now.
I mean, like, Mashhad, Nantz, Tabriz, Tehran.
No, all right, you're good, you're good.
Isfahan is a good one.
Bandar, Mas.
Biggest Navy base.
QOM, like Q-O-M.
I have no idea how they're supposed to say that.
Chabahar.
Yeah, so it's large.
It's very geographically buried.
Tons of mountains, so the landscape is...
Just tons of mountains, tons of valleys, tons of caves in those mountains.
There's desert, of course.
Like, the entire southeast quarter of it is the most barren wilderness ever.
Alexander the Great once marched his army across it, and about half of them died in the process.
So even though Romans wanted to take Persia, right?
And for a thousand years they couldn't get it, right?
Yeah, they invaded it multiple times.
can't remember if he was already dead at this point, but they supposedly pour molten gold down his throat because he was the richest man in Rome, and so they were kind of styling on him a bit with that.
So, Jack, I want to get this from a military expertise.
So, Jack, even if everyone was like, let's go to Iran, how many Americans would die to displace the Iranian regime?
I mean, this is a major country.
I mean, 100,000?
Well, so, I mean, yeah, if you're talking about You know, so not special operations or one of these bombing runs, but an actual invasion scenario.
Keep in mind that the Iraq troop surge was over 100,000 troops just there.
And so Iran is a country that is.
Also, by the way, the people of Iraq would most likely come in in some way, shape or form here because at least 50% or more of Iraq currently supports Iran.
There's massive protests right there.
You would need a larger force right now than Russia has in Ukraine to go into Iran, to be able to hold the country if you were trying to actually occupy it.
Just to be clear, just to get to Tehran.
There's no launching off point.
There's a couple of ports.
I mean, this is such a bad idea, militarily.
Much more deep into the interior.
Basically, it's like the Rocky Mountains are between the Persian Gulf and Tehran.
Exactly.
And by the way, there's also tanks.
Can't go across parts of the desert because there's sand traps in it.
It's super hot.
And let's just frame it in terms of...
So I think our peak force when we invaded Iraq was 170,000 troops.
So if you just want to maintain the same number of troops per people in the country, you'd need over half a million.
You would have to basically – you would have to move basically all of the troops of the Indo-Pacific, all of them, like all of the troops of Europe and just say we're going all in on Iran.
For what exactly?
Yeah, it's a bad idea, Charlie.
The whole thing is bad.
It's a horrible idea.
I don't know if there's a single person online that I've seen that thinks that that's a great idea.
Oh, no, no.
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So the second, again, I think this one really kind of took our entire team, like, speechless.
Would you agree, Blake?
What's funny is I saw, you know, we get some heads up on what the question will be, and I saw that was in the queue.
I'm like, we've got to make sure we get to this.
This is going to be content.
I didn't know.
I was totally taken by surprise.
I'm not usually speechless on my show, and this guy's not a troll.
By the way, a lot of people hold this view.
This is actually a view that people have.
All right, playcut 420.
We should drop a neutron bomb on Tehran.
Okay, so just to make sure I'm going to say your question, are you recommending dropping a neutron bomb on Tehran?
Yes.
Okay.
No, keep going.
No, I just said, the thing is...
If World War III breaks out, if we hit Toronto with a neutron bomb and they don't even know why it hit them, I don't know.
So just so you're clear, like three million people would die, including kids and civilians.
That's a proposal?
How many people would die if we let this go to World War III?
Okay, so then I pressed him further, and he didn't really know the difference in a neutron bomb.
By the way, a neutron bomb is actually even more inhumane, because all the buildings stay intact.
They're an interesting thing.
It's like the idea is normal nuclear bombs, they shoot out a ton of neutrons, but they're kind of contained by the nature of design.
This sort of intentionally shoots out, and it's like a pulse of radiation.
It can kill tons of stuff.
I know they would use it.
It would be like a tactical nuclear weapon because you can use it to kill armor really easily.
It's all complicated.
It figures a lot in conspiracy theories.
Did you know this?
No.
There's a conspiracy theory that the U.S. used a neutron bomb on Baghdad's airport to capture it in the Iraq war.
Really?
So I once ran into a guy who was pitching that conspiracy theory to me.
This was a decade ago.
But, yeah, so the idea is it's supposedly the – Clean nuke, because it's just designed to kill people.
It doesn't kill buildings, and building lives matter, Charlie.
So, so Jack, I mean, I can't help but be somewhat speechless by all of this.
I mean, is this really an op?
Like people are thinking the cruelty.
By the way, I asked him if he was a Christian later, and he said yes.
I was like, how could you as a Christian even, like, begin to, like...
Jack?
Yeah, and these are serious ethical questions that, of course, come up in the context of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
They come up in the context of the Allied strategic bombing of World War II, many of which, as we know, because with these atomic weapons, they don't discriminate.
They don't discriminate between combatants and enemy combatants.
They don't discriminate between any of that.
So civilians, children, women.
You mentioned the Jewish population of Iran.
Many of them happen to be within the blast radius of this thing.
They're all gone.
They're all absolutely gone.
And if they live, if they're in the next radius and then beyond that, you've got radiation sickness, you've got cancer, you've got all sorts of things going on there.
My wife comes from Belarus.
And people know, fortunately, she's from the western side of Belarus.
The eastern side is where the Chernobyl fallout hit.
And the Chernobyl fallout still affects people to this day in eastern Belarus and people who were born around that time, so late 80s, early 90s.
You do have a lot of malformations.
You have a lot of cancers.
You have a whole host of issues.
Because even though Chernobyl is in Ukraine, it's right on the border of Belarus.
And the way the winds were blowing, it really, really went into the civilian population.
And it was right around the same time as May Day.
And in the Soviet Union, May Day was this huge parade.
So again, you just had all these civilians.
And that was just an accident.
That wasn't an actual nuclear strike.
Again, that was just an accident.
And we know how bad Chernobyl was.
And she's told me, put it this way.
When HBO put that movie out, or the miniseries out about Chernobyl, I showed her the trailer for it.
And she couldn't even make it through the trailer.
She couldn't even watch the movie itself with me.
So I watched the miniseries alone because she said this is just too personal.
It's too close to home.
I know too many people or have had families who were affected by this, and I just I mean, just like where are I mean, it's really a sick thing that people would just say go kill 3 million civilians.
Babies and women that have nothing to do with this?
This is a moral darkness that has to be confronted.
It's sad, and what's kind of...
I've read one of the darkest things actually about World War II's impact on humanity is it did very much normalize in Christian European civilization.
It kind of brought back the idea it was okay to just go...
Total war on someone like absolute war against an entire country and all of its people, which I feel at the peak of Western Christian European civilization.
We had we had rolled that idea back like the US Civil War killed tons of people, yet there were.
They did occur, but they were war crimes and people got hanged for them.
The American Revolution, despite certain inaccurate Mel Gibson movies, does not involve mass atrocities against civilians.
The Napoleonic Wars, a lot of people die in those.
But again, you do not have it as a norm that you just roll into a town and just kill everybody.
Or when it comes close to that, people are horrified and it's hugely controversial.
Now, you know, World War II, it was, you know, they normalized the idea of total war.
You wage war on an entire country and all of its people, and people are a resource, so you're okay to attack them because you have to attack them.
I do think I should, since we are on ThoughtCrime, I do think if you're going to say that, I probably should bring up that the march to the sea, Sherman's march, was not exactly the cleanest.
No, you see, that's where you're mistaken, Jack.
No, no, no.
You see, that is where your mistake is.
I once went and researched.
I invite you all.
This is one of my favorite things.
I once did this.
I looked up every county that the March to the Sea went through, and we have the 1860 U.S. Census, and we have the 1870 U.S. Census.
Every single place that the Sherman's March to the Sea went through had more people in 1870 than it did in 1860.
Like, the funny thing is, is in the South, you'll have like all these small towns will have this story about- Basically, there were, like, no atrocities in the March to the Sea.
Like, they destroyed a huge amount of infrastructure.
like they destroyed every railroad but like the rules that Sherman gave his men They burn Atlanta deliberately, but they don't, like, kill everyone in Atlanta.
They put the people in Atlanta on a train, and they send them to the north, and not to, like, scary train ride.
They just evacuate.
They do destroy Atlanta.
Columbia and South Carolina is burned probably basically by accident.
Sherman says he doesn't mind because it's South Carolina and they deserve it, but it is accidental.
But other than that, like, they don't obliterate any towns.
They don't destroy Savannah.
And what this gets at is actually the greater truth, which is just they didn't really destroy any towns other than Atlanta and Columbia.
And, like, he has these rules.
He says you can't destroy anyone's personal home.
You can destroy storehouses.
You destroy stuff relevant to the economy, but you can't destroy people's personal homes.
You destroy stockpiles of food.
You do not destroy food that is necessary for individuals to feed themselves.
So it's very funny.
Like this is an example where people will say this is total war.
But if you dig into the details of it, it's actually a perfect example of how our values have changed that in the 1860s, this qualified as total war.
Yet it's utterly incomparable to what we did in future wars or what, frankly, a lot of people want us to do now to Iran.
But so, Jack, help me understand where does this come from?
Where does that kind of cruelty and darkness versus like we're just going to drop a nuclear bomb on an entire population?
How did we get here?
So I think a lot of it is unfortunately a lot of it is Marvel movie thinking.
You get this sort of war fervor also from cable news.
Unfortunately, some people just watch too much cable news and they think that, hey, all these people are evil.
We have to kill them all.
We have to get them out.
And we were actually playing on human events.
Earlier today, just, you know, sort of B-roll of city scenes in Tehran.
And yeah, you know, it looks like the Middle East and it's different from us.
and you see the burqas, but you do see families and just people sort of walking around and, you know, buying food and going shopping and going to work and living their lives.
And so it's it's you know, again, it's They're still just people.
And even if you have your differences with the regime and you, you know, morally want things to happen, you really need to be careful when you're Purposefully targeting civilian populations.
And unfortunately, I think that is an unintended side effect of the attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, where some people think, well, that's just what you got to do.
You know, that's just what you got to do to end the war, to stop them, just just nuke them, just nuke them all the way down.
And to the point where Truman himself, you know, didn't obviously people remember.
Even though he had dropped the nukes on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, did not elect to use nukes on China.
After they got involved in the Korean War, and in fact, basically fired MacArthur for publicly speaking out against him.
They had a huge disagreement about it.
And MacArthur was saying, let's nuke Beijing, let's nuke Shanghai, and prevent China from going communist.
Well, not going communist, but defeating the communists once and for all.
Obviously, a whole alternate history that could have happened had that taken place.
And so it's hard to say, but at the same time, I think there's serious moral and ethical questions here that get glossed over because when people hear about the war drums beating, there's a tendency, a very human tendency to be tribal.
And in that very human tendency to be tribal, it's us versus them.
And all of us need to defeat all of them.
And if you're on the other side, then, you know, You're going to get you're going to get beaten.
You're going to get killed.
And that's the end.
And and to the point, you know, Charlie, in this country, even in World War Two, you know, we did intern any Japanese Americans.
Many German Americans also faced a lot of this.
By the way, a lot of German, Italian American German and Italian Americans went and volunteered to join the Axis.
So these wars are very complicated and wars get very messy.
And it is it's never occurred once in all of history that there was a war that that went well and went exactly as the initial planners and promoters said it was going to.
So, Blake, it's hard to even comprehend.
Is there like a older generation problem where they just haven't learned like any foreign policy lessons the last 20 years?
You know, it's sad because like we think of learning from things, but the truth is for a lot of people, they get their ideas about the world, I think, largely fixed in their teenage years, their 20 something years, and then...
And I think just like we see in Washington, where a lot of people got in a Cold War mindset, so that's why they're always paranoid about Russia.
And I think that's actually driving a lot of the Iran stuff.
The U.S. and Iran had far more direct conflict in the 1980s.
I mean, we have the Iranian hostage crisis.
We had, We're planes getting shot down, things like that.
And I think a lot of people wanted some sort of payoff for that.
They never quite got it.
So instead, we've just had this infinite semi-occasionally flaring up conflict with Iran.
But people have always wanted that payoff.
And they never got it.
And it's just coming roaring back.
And it will never really go away until people who have been craving that for decades either die off or get their payoff.
Tyler, what do you make of the generational difference that the older that you are, the more likely it seems that you're open to dropping a nuke or boots on the ground?
Talk about the age difference dynamic here.
Well, I actually think it's really interesting, too.
Just, again, we bring in the Russia issue, which is, you know, what is the outcome if you do some kind of massive drop into Iran?
What kind of outcome?
What's the outcome going to look like with Turkey, your Turkish relationship, your Russian relationship, obviously the conflict that's happening there?
What does that do for American day-to-day life outside of the immense amount of life lost that we've discussed?
We're talking about the impacts that we would have with gas and everything else.
It is absolutely insane what would happen.
Sorry, guys.
Everywhere I'm going, I'm just getting beeping in the background here.
But I think the older generation, as they're thinking about everything else that we see, activists on the ground, which are the loudest that we hear, especially within the Republican Party, they're just completely detached from what this would mean for younger people.
And what their day-to-day impact would look like right away with how they live their lives, what the cost would be, because largely older people are pretty much taken care of.
It's the younger people that would feel the brunt of things.
And on top of that, you're talking about the draft.
You're talking about, you know, who would actually be sent the massive operation to backfill our military.
I just don't know that there's a single person over the age of maybe 55 that is thinking about this in the same way that now the majority of our population is thinking about it, and definitely Republican voters.
Well, so what other dynamics are we missing here, Blake or Jack, on this conversation that are important that people should know about?
I was going to say, you do have the age.
That you mentioned you have how people get their media, how people get their news.
Some people, you know, and this came up with like Tucker and Ted Cruz.
Some people have religious differences on this, saying that, you know, some people say they they look at Ted Cruz cited Genesis and said, you know, this is why we have to do this.
And Tucker asked, why is that?
And that sort of has ignited this massive debate online that I'm seeing as well.
So, I mean, look, when you're talking about anything involving the Holy Land, it's absolutely going to bring up religious beliefs, and in some cases, conflicting religious beliefs.
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Blake, do we want to get into the Tucker and Ted Cruz thing?
It got sent to me by people who are not even in this country, who don't usually always follow U.S. It's the biggest thing on the internet right now.
It's the biggest thing on the entire internet.
Yeah, a ton of people saw the question about how many people live in Iran.
I saw people say, when I watched the whole video, it was more evenly matched between Tucker and Ted, that Ted occasionally got Tucker's sort of back off, or he got in some good blows.
But what went by far the most viral, we can play it if you want, was, let's play clip 416.
How many people living around, by the way?
I don't know the population.
At all?
No, I don't know the population.
You don't know the population of the country you seek to topple?
How many people live in Iran?
92 million.
Okay.
How could you not know that?
I don't sit around memorizing population tables.
Well, it's kind of relevant because you're calling for the overthrow of the government.
Why is it relevant whether it's 90 million or 80 million or 100 million?
Why is that relevant?
Because if you don't know anything about the country, Okay, what's the ethnic mix of Iran?
They are Persians and predominantly Shia.
Okay, this is cute.
You don't know anything about Iran.
Okay, I am not the Tucker Carlson expert on Iran.
You're a senator who's calling for the overthrow of the government and you don't know anything about the country.
No, you don't know anything about the country.
You're the one who claims they're not trying to murder Donald Trump.
No, I'm not saying that.
You're the one who can't figure out if it was a good idea to kill General Soleimani and you said it was bad.
You don't believe they're trying to murder Trump.
Yes, I do.
Because you're not calling for military strikes against them in retaliation.
Okay, we are carrying out military strikes today.
You said Israel was.
Right.
With our help.
I said we.
Israel is leading them, but we're supporting them.
Well, you're breaking news here because the U.S. government last night denied, the National Security Council spokesman Alex Pfeiffer denied on behalf of Trump that we were acting on Israel's behalf in any offensive capacity at all.
No, we're not bombing them.
Israel's bombing them.
You just said we were.
We are supporting Israel.
This is high stakes.
You're a senator.
If you're saying the United States government is at war with Iran right now, people are listening.
Blake.
It's so...
I want to highlight for people why that question about like the ethnic makeup and population is so resonant is when we invaded Iraq.
One of the most amazing things is apparently even before we invaded Iraq, a large number of people in the Bush administration, possibly including Bush himself.
They did not know the difference between Sunni and Shia Muslims.
And Iraq is like one of the only countries where there's a large number of both.
And Saddam was from the Sunni minority.
The majority of Iraq is Shia.
And they were kind of, you know, on the they were the bottom rung of Iraqi society and the Sunnis ran stuff.
And they were just unaware of this.
They were unaware of that fundamental split in Iraqi society and what that would mean or how the Shia majority would have close ties with Iran because they're one of the only places that has other Shia Muslims.
And that ended up being so important.
Besides the insurgency against U.S. forces in Iraq, there was also just sectarianism.
They would target Shia holy days for attacks.
And they just had no idea about that.
And so that's why it's very relevant to ask that.
One of the things I've heard said about Iran is one of the reasons they're relatively tolerant of the handful of Jews, Christians, Zoroastrians that they have in Iran is actually no one there has it worse than the tiny Sunni minority they have in Iran because they're heretics.
They're not just a different faith.
They are the true infidels against proper Islam.
If you're not aware of that, you just realize we could walk into this thing where you can just step on a landmine and you have no idea where any of them are buried because you don't know what you're doing.
Jack, your thoughts on the thermonuclear viral conversation?
Well, it's one thing that struck me.
But what what's really struck me as much as the conversation itself and a lot of these questions that I'm just going to say, you don't hear these types of questions on Fox News.
These are deep questions.
These are serious questions.
They're not surface level questions.
They're questions that, as Blake has described, really matter if you're going to get into a war or as as as occurs.
The counterinsurgency after a war, like a civil war.
And so the almost important, almost as important as the conversation itself, is how this thing has taken on a life of its own online.
This is the number one most viral thing with all of Gen Z. And that's only because, of course, Charlie's not on campus right now.
But it's all over TikTok.
You can see this on the left, on the right.
widespread support for Tucker, widespread condemnation for Ted Cruz's position.
And this is the entire, you know, 18 to 39, whatever you wanna call it, demographic, of millennials, Gen Z, people saying,
Just being so tremendously glib about something that could get a lot of Americans killed.
All right, so let me tell you the one where I like Tucker a lot.
I like Ted a lot.
They're both friends of mine.
I haven't gone to the social media thing because I just think it's, everyone's fighting right now and like, blessed are the peacemakers and I'm trying to like, I don't know, figure out what the hell's going on in Iran.
We will have to be a party after this.
Yeah, and I'm also just, I don't know, I think there's, so I just, I wasn't interested in that.
But the one thing, I will say this though.
Actually, yes, this is 429.
Maybe I'm just kind of like a Bible nerd, but...
I think that's very rudimentary scripture.
I'm sorry.
That was one where I was like, ooh, you've got to know that.
Okay, it's loaded.
429.
Growing up in Sunday school, I was taught from the Bible, those who bless Israel will be blessed, and those who curse Israel will be cursed.
And from my perspective, I want to be on the blessing side of things.
Of those who bless the government of Israel?
Those who bless Israel is what it says.
It doesn't say the government of, it says the nation of Israel.
So that's in the Bible.
As a Christian, I believe that.
Where is that?
I can find it to you.
I don't have the scripture off the tip of mine.
You pull out the phone and use it.
It's in Genesis, but so you're quoting a I'm confused.
I'm talking about the political entity of modern Israel.
Yes, and that is Israel.
You believe that's what God was talking about in Genesis.
I do.
That country's existed since when?
For thousands of years.
Now, there was a time when it didn't exist and then it was recreated just over 70 years ago.
I'm saying I think most people understand that line in Genesis to refer to...
That's not what it says.
Okay, Israel.
But you don't even know where in the Bible it is.
This drove me crazy.
You know how population tables?
Everybody is wrong here.
Everybody's wrong.
Israel is not mentioned in Genesis 12. Israel hasn't been born yet.
Correct.
Israel is Jacob.
It wrestles with God.
correct.
The word Israel is not in Genesis 12.3.
However, it does say This is God's covenant with Abram before he became Abraham.
I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse, and all the peoples of the earth will be blessed through you.
So yes, eventually that does mean the Jewish people and the people of Israel.
Now Ted's theological view I'm actually somewhat sympathetic to.
But he just, Ted, here's the way you should say it next time.
Tucker, I don't anticipate you to agree with me theologically.
So let's just talk about this geopolitically.
But we, in our specific camp, believe that the reconstitution of the state of Israel is a fulfillment of prophecy in Ezekiel 36 that I will graft you from around the world and I'll scatter you and bring you back into a nation.
But that's not the most relevant thing.
That's all he had to say.
Right?
Genesis 12.3 and Ezekiel 36 is actually a better theological argument than Genesis 12.3 because Genesis 12.3 is like, well, what is Israel and Catholics?
It's fine, I don't want to get into it.
You know, it's the church and it's, you know, it's the Jewish people.
And it's like the Ezekiel argument for those of us that are sympathetic is a much stronger argument.
But it should have just been diffusing instead.
Ted was almost getting, in my opinion, I have a lot of respect for Ted, he was almost like, this is what Christianity believes.
Do you notice whenever I talk about it, I say, this is just a theological interpretation I'm sympathetic to.
That's a much better way to approach it than just saying, like, this is doctrine.
And so there are closed-hand issues and open-hand issues in Christianity.
Closed-hand issues are ones that, if you do not believe this, you're not a Christian.
Divinity of Christ.
Virginity of Mary, right?
The resurrection of Christ, the creation of the world, the inerrancy of Scripture.
And there's open-hand issues, right?
Which is like eschatology or what is Israel?
And that's the way I wish you would have explained it.
Instead, here's what drove me the most crazy.
Is it made anybody like myself that has this kind of view that God has a plan and prophecy very well might be unfolding seem as if we're like...
Does that make sense?
And it goes into...
This is a very common belief abroad that the only reason conservatives in the U.S. are sympathetic to Israel is they'll just be like, oh, it's just because they think it will bring about the end of the world to build the third temple.
Correct.
Or they just think that the Bible requires them to just do whatever Israel tells them to do.
People who support Israel, including pretty aggressively, do it because they think it is good for the United States or represents good values, that Israel is civilization, Israel is Western, and they're in conflict with this, you know, barbaric country.
And that's the best argument for it.
I totally agree.
And so my whole point is that And it should be closed-hand Christianity issues, right?
So, for example, if all of a sudden Tucker and Ted were debating whether or not Bethlehem should be bombed, okay?
A closed-hand issue is like, don't bomb it because Jesus was born there, right?
That's a good reason to introduce theology into geopolitics, right?
Now, if you're going to do that, which, again, Jack Hibbs would be, like, super equipped to do this.
A friend of mine, he's, like, not super well.
But it's just kind of what it, unfortunately, what it did is it played into a stereotype that, like, they're using Christianity and they don't even know, like, the fundamental, the elemental scripture.
So, and I like Ted a lot.
And I think, actually, Ted made some really good points later in the argument, later in the whole kind of dialogue, that I think were missed in some of the online back and forth.
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Would you say Gen Z's view of Israel, has it improved or gotten worse because of this interview?
Well, there's a multi-layered question there because Gen Z's view of Israel has already been quite negative, and that's not because of this interview.
Particularly because of the images that they see coming out of Gaza every day on TikTok that are just going up and down all over the place.
You know, here's this bombing, here's this that bombing, another hospital, et cetera, et cetera.
And I'm not going to get into the efficacy of that or, you know, whether whether or not that's that's true or all the rest of it.
You're recycling old footage.
I'm just saying this is Gen Z's general view.
And so.
It's already preset to be quite negative.
Then they see Israel launching this attack on Iran one week ago, give or take, I think a week and a day ago, and saying, well, here's Netanyahu again taking off another bomb, picking another fight, even when he hasn't finished his first fight because of political issues at home.
And then this interview comes around on top of it to say, well, here's a politician who And then they see Ted Cruz and he's making these arguments.
And I say, hey, Charlie, you know, it's confusing for someone who doesn't know all of the backstory or someone who hasn't read the Bible or someone who, you know, it's like, what's the citation?
Can you even explain what you're talking about?
And, you know, it's just not there.
It's just not there.
So no, I think if you're someone who is a supporter of Israel, and you're looking at this, it's not going the way you want.
Just to be clear, like, Like, that's basically what, like, because it's just, you kind of get found out and exposed, and it just, like, because his, here's the reason.
He was like, well, as a Christian in Sunday school, I was told that we must do this.
Like, this is a guiding principle.
And the talker's like, okay, tell me why.
Like, what's the scripture?
Because some people disagree.
Does that make sense?
And it makes sense not just from a—because we're not just talking about theological, right?
We're talking about effective communication.
And so in effective communication, and if you're trying to communicate an idea to someone, then you really need to know it inside out because that person is going to ask you questions about it and perhaps challenge you on your view.
And so if you're going to use effective communication, you have to think, okay, where is that person at?
I'm trying to talk to them.
I'm trying to communicate my view to them.
So you have to know your view.
You have to know what you're trying to say.
And that's on you as a communicator.
And I mean this in the sense of, you know, Charlie, you and I, we do this every day.
You know, you're communicating.
So effective communication always means you have to be able to explain yourself.
And if you don't, then you are going to run the risk of what I think happened here is making yourself and whoever side you are taking look really bad.
So, just to kind of put a cap, let me just play one more piece of tape here from this debate.
I actually enjoyed, I encourage everyone, if you have an opinion on the Tucker-Ted exchange, listen to the entire thing, because I really believe that Ted actually made some really good points at times.
I think some of the clips put him in a bad light, and honestly, as U.S. Senator, you should know the population, the top three, like, you should know.
I'm sorry, you should know that.
Like, there's no excusing it.
But Ted is not dumb.
He's a high IQ person.
Let's play cut 417, please.
Does Mossad share all of its intelligence with us?
Oh, probably not, but they share a lot.
We don't share all of our intelligence with them, but we share a lot.
It's a close alliance.
Do they spy domestically in the United States?
Oh, they probably do, and we do as well.
And friends and allies spy on each other, and I assume all of our allies spy on us.
And that's okay with you?
You know what?
One of the things about being a conservative is that you're not naive and utopian.
You don't think humans are all...
As a conservative, I assume people act in their rational self-interest.
So it's conservative to pay people to spy on you?
It's conservative to recognize that human beings act in their own self-interest, and every one of our friends spies on us.
That's my question.
I'm not asking whether they have motive to do it.
Of course they do.
I understand that.
And I'm not mad at them, but you're an American lawmaker, so I just want to know your attitude.
You said that you're...
In fact, the only principle, the only criterion.
I said guiding.
The overwhelming.
I wouldn't say only.
Is it in America's interest?
Is it in America's interest for Israel to spy on us, including on the president?
It is in America's interest to be closely allied with Israel because we get huge benefits for it.
And you want to see the clearest?
It takes place, as you know, including on the president of the United States and several precedents.
I just want to know if that's okay and why is it okay?
Wouldn't an American lawmaker say to a client state, you're not allowed to spy on us.
I'm sorry.
I know why you want to.
I'm not mad at you, but you're not allowed to.
Sure.
And I don't care for it.
I don't want to be spied on by you.
It's kind of weird not to say that, but you don't seem able to say that.
So, Blake, for the audience that's listening to this for the first time, what is the cultural impact of such an interview like this right now?
It really can set the tone of things.
And it's really important.
Like I said, it's an interview that was over an hour long.
It's a quite long, sustained interview that hits on a lot of topics.
But the nature of media these days is the vast majority of people, 99% of people who see anything from this interview, will probably see those two clips.
They'll see the Mossad spying clip, and they'll see the Bible clip that we saw.
Or the population clip.
So they'll see a handful of these things.
And as we said, I think both of us agree, Cruz did better in the full interview, but it's a handful of really interested people who are seeing the full interview.
And what can really set the cultural zeitgeist is the stuff that goes viral with other people and that question about population that I got sent by people in other countries.
What were they saying?
They were just amazed by it.
I think the impression, if you are coming in very superficially, is, wow, there are people in the U.S. who want to do regime change in Iran or intervention in Iran, and they don't know that much about Iran.
And it fits into a script we have, because we know the U.S. has gone in without enough information into Iraq, into Libya.
It fits a mental image that people already have in their head, and that makes it more powerful, I think.
And it has a great ability to set the tone for it.
for what the debate is right now.
So I would not be surprised if whatever ultimate decision we reach, if that meaningfully lowered the odds that we go into Iran because it's going to shift how people are talking about it.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
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Do we want to do WNBA?
We could do that.
We've had a debate.
Now that YWLS is over, we've been having a debate about chores that we wanted to have.
Men and women household roles.
We could do that one, or we could do that another time.
I think WNBA is pretty hot.
WNBA is – It's very popular.
I'm just saying right now, this is the most I've ever seen because now there's two WNBA players people care about.
But the reason that it's kicking off is not because of the basketball.
It's because of the WWF stuff that's going on.
Oh, yeah.
It's pure UFC.
So, Caitlin Clark, of course, got targeted again.
We all know why she's being targeted.
It's not.
A huge mystery.
And a ridiculous flagrant foul.
They throw her to the ground.
Do we have a clip of the flagrant foul?
And then a minute and a half later, a girl that we've never heard of before, Sophie Cunningham, comes out and just throws the other team to the ground and just starts a New York Piston-style brawl.
Remember the brawl?
Yeah, the malice at the palace.
I saw the brawl.
Young people might not remember this.
Oh my goodness.
The brawl was one of my greatest childhood memories.
I was walking into a restaurant called Dennajo's.
It was right near my house.
And they had these TVs.
Old TVs.
And the game was on.
And all of a sudden I was like, oh.
The fight's breaking up.
And, like, it was, like, a 15-minute brawl.
I think they had to end the game early.
Oh, no, they did.
And do you remember, like, it was, like, Rasheed Wallace or somebody that, like, stormed in.
It was Ron Artest, wasn't it?
Yeah.
Who later became Metta World Peace.
Yeah, yeah.
And he went into the crowd.
And, like, he was, like, laying down or something.
And then someone threw a water bottle at him.
Ron Artest just went and fought random civilians at the Palace of Auburn Hills.
Game was called with 46 seconds left in the fourth quarter.
So anyway, here's Caitlin Clark with her bodyguard, Sophie Cunningham.
The WNBA, these other girls in the league, they are so mad at Caitlin.
So here's Caitlin Clark.
Then they just throw her to the ground after the whistle's blown.
Like, what is that?
And so then Sophie Cunningham says, okay.
She just takes down this woman.
And then, look, then she just throws a punch.
And it's just literally like, we're not going to put up with this.
And, of course, she gets ejected.
She got fined $400.
That's like 40% of the WNBA salary.
I know.
I mean, in the NFL, they're like a $200,000 fine.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And so, look, this is Sophie Cunningham.
She just goes full Ron Artest on her.
Like, for female basketball, that's like a very violent move.
For men's basketball, that's a pretty violent move.
She's gone, like, super viral now.
Sophie Cunningham.
I mean, look, I'll be honest, like, Caitlin Clark is growing on me because we know why this is happening, obviously.
I mean, they're mad that, like, a Midwestern white girl who's very wholesome and is straight and has a boyfriend has become, like, the face of the WNBA and, like, nobody cared before.
But now there's two faces of the WNBA.
Let's put up the picture here in the thought crime chat of Caitlin Clark and her bodyguard, Sophie Cunningham.
There it is.
So, Tyler, people are talking about the WNBA.
It's going up like a rocket ship.
Charlie, it all happens in Indiana.
You've got the Pacers now going to Game 7. You had the Ron Artest, Malice in the Palace.
you have Sophie Cunningham who used to play for the Mercury.
I just, the only thing I regretting, I wish this was the actual Mercury.
So we had a reason to go to Mercury games because it is so impossible to watch WNBA games with the amount of, We may have now a reason to go watch the WNBA, and I actually think they should insert new rules.
Hold on.
No.
No, no, no.
We're not.
This may be straighter than Lord of the Rings.
That said, Charlie, Indiana Fever at Phoenix Mercury, July 30th.
Are you going to go?
That may be straight night.
That might be a straight night for Phoenix fans, is to show up, support females fighting on the court.
They should make this a rule.
They should allow fighting, like the NHL.
I think this would increase sales immediately.
I don't know.
Wait, hold on.
That one's in Indiana.
No, August 7th.
Thursday, August 7th, 10 p.m. Eastern.
Indiana Fever at Phoenix Mercury.
So wait, Charlie.
We should make that Turning Point night at the PHX Stadium.
We have to have a Protect Caitlin sign.
Charlie, do you think that they're pushing this that they want?
You know, they finally found a way to get people interested.
So there's people actually, you know, WWF style back there saying, oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
Like kind of goading this type of stuff on.
We should have NIL for straight white females in the WNBA because that's the only way you're going to get men interested.
You could actually triple their salary just with NIL for straight white females that are in the WNBA overnight.
They could be the most predominant player within the WNBA and that's saying something.
For where we're at.
So, I'm advocating for it.
Conservatives should start funding, you know, patches and things like that on WNBA jerseys.
It could be incredible.
I think, I mean, look, the tickets would be like $3 apiece, Blake.
We could do a thought crime episode live from the WNBA.
We could just probably take a large portion of the stadium because I can't.
Did these games sell out?
No, no.
If we showed up, we would almost double the amount of people who go to W. No, by the way, we would come up with Protect Caitlin shirts.
Okay, Stan.
The big signs that say Protect Caitlin.
I mean, look, we know why she's being targeted, obviously.
Okay?
And so, Fever games do sell out regularly, they say.
But I don't know.
But like people are...
But you understand how mad the home teams get?
They're like, we've been doing this for 10 years.
No one cares about you, actually.
So it's pretty amazing.
You wonder how many people in Phoenix learned that we have a WNBA team because Caitlin Clark came to play here.
I didn't know we had a WNBA team.
It was called the Mercury?
Phoenix Mercury, yeah.
It's pretty amazing.
I think the Miami team is the Sun, which obviously is maximally confusing.
We went through all the names last week.
Yeah, yeah.
The Mercury Games have been so poorly attended forever, and if you show up there as a male, you get spit on.
They don't like it.
They don't like when men show up.
There's a lot of women who look like men who show up.
There's not a lot of actual men.
I'm telling you, we would make big news.
I'm just telling you right now, we would make very big news.
I think we should do it.
I think this would be incredible.
The Atlanta Dream, one of the WNBA teams, they play in a stadium with a capacity of 3,200 people.
Yep.
A lot of people are now pushing for Caitlin Clark to leave the WNBA because they're trying to basically push her out is what they're trying to do.
Do they have the conceit that she could play in the regular NBA?
That would be pretty funny.
I don't know where she would go, but I mean...
I mean, she's great.
I mean, she did say that stupid thing about white privilege or whatever.
But I mean, she's a norm-adjusting woman.
It's like table stakes.
I know, that's like table stakes.
But like, I mean, they're really going after her.
And now, hey, more women are rising up.
So this is 437.
This is the full beef.
Let's go to 437.
This is...
It always makes me laugh when women fight.
They really don't know how to fight.
It's a lot of hair pulling.
Yeah, there's a reason for that.
A lot of arms, teeth, and fingernails.
There's a lot of...
Kind of gets into what we were saying before about Just War Theory.
She's completely remaking women's basketball as we know it.
It's pretty amazing.
Alright, last thought.
There's Sophie Cunningham.
They're going to go after her too because women can't stand the attention thing.
It's going to drive them crazy.
Alright, final thoughts, guys.
Blake.
Oh, man.
I kind of want to see Charlie go to a WNP again.
I want to see Charlie get really into it.
He's initially going just to do the support Caitlyn thing, and then he starts watching the game, and the wheels start turning.
He gets into the strategy of it.
I'll bring my daughter.
We'll start coming into the office and be like, Charlie, we've got breaking news, the president.
And he'll be like, shut up!
Shut up!
And he'll be on his phone and he'll be watching a stream, not even of the fever, he'll be watching a dumpster game between the two worst teams in the league that are out of the playoffs, but he's riveted to it.
He'll start babbling to us about the stats of these players and he'll be like, this rebounder who plays for the Miami Sun, she's better than Dennis Rodman and he's watching the women's basketball.
World Cup or whatever they have.
I think we could see Charlie.
He could go full.
The madness could consume him.
I think so.
So, Tyler, this is a good idea.
We're going to go to the WNBA game together.
I'm going to wear the Caitlin Clark jersey with the MAGA hat.
Yep.
And then we're going to hand out Let Sophie Fight shirts.
We're going to shoot that.
We actually have, at Turning Point, we actually have big t-shirt guns.
What we should do is we should bring the big, we have the big rotary thing.
You know what I'm talking about, Charlie?
That's just sitting in the warehouse.
We should shoot those off.
I bet we could sneak it in.
Yeah, we'll sneak it in.
We'll pretend like we'll hire two very short haircut women just rolling in through the back door.
You'll never see so many Subarus.
Jack, final thoughts?
Sorry, you got me on the Subaru.
My dad has a Subaru and we're constantly blowing him up about it.
No, no, this is great.
Charlie, you had a whole thing this week about going to college for your MRS. I think all of this, even the fighting and the rest of it, gets into this question about gender roles in our society and what we're pushing people towards.
