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May 3, 2025 - The Charlie Kirk Show
01:00:54
THOUGHTCRIME Ep. 82 — 100 Men vs. A Gorilla? Dad Bod or Gay Bod? AI vs. Redditors?

Charlie, Jack, Andrew, and Blake debate the week's biggest questions, including: -Could 100 men defeat a gorilla in combat? What about a hippo?-Is bodybuilding a little bit gay?-If AI bots can easily trick humans on Reddit, is the Internet dead?Support the show: http://www.charliekirk.com/supportSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.
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Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.
I want to thank Charlie.
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Okay, everybody, it is Thought Crime Thursday, and we are here with the gang, Blake, Jack, and producer Andrew.
Jack, are you okay?
I heard you got assaulted.
There was an incident.
It is currently under investigation.
As of now, I'm doing okay.
A couple things here and there, but generally okay.
Well, what happened?
So, I was getting off the train at Union Station in D.C. I was on my over to the SBA list, was having their gala dinner, and was, you know, going to head over there.
Fantastic pro-life organization.
And I see this group of federal workers there doing this sort of federal workers matter protest or something outside.
I said, oh, go over, check out.
It's D.C. There's always different events going on.
Maybe get some footage.
When I saw who it was, though, I realized that it was Jamie Raskin, Democrat from Maryland, was there in the middle.
And was, you know, given a speech, talking about protesting, saying that Donald Trump isn't the voice of the people.
And I said, well, and at that point I had to respond because Jamie Raskin is saying Donald Trump isn't a representative of the people.
I said, but Jamie Raskin, if that's true, why did you lose the popular vote?
Why did you lose 7 for 7 out of the swing states?
And he then, well, he then...
And, you know,
eventually Capitol Police came up, and at no point, by the way, Did Jamie Raskin ever once ask for any of this to stop?
He never said, oh my gosh, this is too much.
Guys don't do this.
Get him out of here safely or anything like that.
He seemed to step back and almost enjoy what was happening to me here.
This violence that he had directly incited upon me.
Well, I hope everything resolves itself and glad to hear you're doing okay.
What is our first topic?
It leads directly into our next topic.
I don't quite understand the phenomenon around this topic.
It's because it's fun, Charlie.
The viral debate on TikTok is man versus gorilla.
Or should we say men versus gorilla?
I think we can't show the original tape because I think it uses bad words in it.
But basically the big debate that people have been going is could 100 human men And the conclusion is?
It's surprisingly varied.
To me, I think my initial response, and I think your shared response as well, was, yeah, it's a hundred guys.
Yeah, sure.
But people have started making very funny videos.
But the videos that I've seen are like, these are like...
I mean, like elephant gorillas.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
We should show some of these.
No, I know.
I mean, gorillas are usually like maybe six or seven feet, right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Am I wrong?
I mean, so far, I think, I haven't seen a gorilla in the wild.
I have seen, I saw a movie once that I think was a documentary where there was a gorilla and it was big enough to climb the Empire State Building.
And so, I feel like that would be a difficult gorilla to defeat.
So all these simulations, these gorillas are massive.
Gorillas aren't as tall as people.
A male gorilla is five and a half feet tall.
And they rarely stand upright.
So they're knuckle walkers.
And so how heavy are they?
These simulations, the gorilla looks like it's 20 feet tall.
Okay, they're 400 pounds.
Of course 100 guys could take a five and a half foot.
Animal that's 400 pounds.
We're talking unarmed, right?
We're fully unarmed, right?
That's part of it, right?
No weapons, anything?
They just all jump on them.
I don't understand.
Yeah, so let's see.
Show the B-roll.
Show the B-roll from 403.
Look how big the gorilla is in a B-roll.
Okay, okay.
This is ridiculous.
Show this whenever I'm watching on the thing.
Put that in there.
The gorilla is like 13 feet tall.
Why in this simulation are the guys all white in this simulation?
Why are they watching?
Why don't they jump on his back?
This whole thing has never made any sense to me.
When I first saw it on Twitter, I spent 30 seconds, I'll never get back.
This is like the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
It is pretty dumb.
I would say, in the defense of people who think the humans would lose, it's kind of a...
It's a morale test.
I would say, like, if you took 100 guys and just had them steamroll the gorilla, they would win, but probably the gorilla would be able to kill or, like, extremely severely maim, you know, three or four guys.
Like they have very powerful bites.
So they could just kind of like bite your neck and you die or they could rip your arm off or they could throw you or punch you really bad.
And so some of those guys would die.
And the question is, do the people maintain does the massive men maintain their cohesion?
to defeat the gorilla menace or do they break and run away?
And I can easily imagine, you know, in certain dynamics, they would just run like wussies.
Yeah, I guess.
I mean, so Ryan thinks the gorilla would win.
I see.
Oh, I just.
Okay.
Yeah.
The gorilla would probably like mess up like seven guys.
And then you just jump on top of him.
And then you have more jump on and just keep on hitting.
But what if the person who's right on it freaks out because he doesn't want the gorilla to rip his nuts off or something or just uppercut him into the stratosphere?
I guess you don't want to win then.
But that's the thing.
Do they care about winning or saving their individual lives?
However briefly.
I mean, it depends on the stakes of this.
Well, again, we're talking about...
A fight, as in a stand-up fight, which means that we've already committed to the, for whatever reason, right?
We're talking physicality here.
We're not talking about motivation.
So for whatever motive, whatever the motivation is, the gorilla has killed all of their children, let's say.
And for whatever reason, they're also unarmed.
So they're fully committed.
They have decided to end this gorilla's...
Or at least it's freedom.
By the way, are we saying subdue or fully kill the gorilla?
I feel like this is to the death.
Again, you just get on the gorilla's back and eventually the gorilla will fall and just keep stomping on it.
I think Jack's already adding new caveats when it's like the men want revenge on the gorilla.
What if instead the 100 men are just abducted by maybe there's some Sure, sure.
Yeah, it's Kim Jong-un, and you will be killed if you do not fight the gorilla.
All right, hold on, guys.
Guys, we got to go through the gorilla's physical attributes.
Gorillas weigh up to 500 pounds, and they are 4 to 9. That's quite a spread.
Four to nine times stronger than a trained human male.
And their upper body strength is immense.
They can tear down trees, bend iron bars in captivity.
And get this, their bite force is 130 PSI, pounds per square inch, which is like double that of a lion's.
So they would bite and probably like...
Kill.
I don't know.
You're saying seven men would probably get maimed?
And this seems to be where the whole breakdown of the debate is.
And even the first post that went super viral on this, like, said...
I think a hundred N-words could beat one gorilla.
Everybody just got to be dedicated to that S. And that's the whole thing.
Are the hundred men going to be dedicated to that S or are they going to be like white dudes for Kamala or white dudes for Harris and scatter to the wind?
Are they going to be beta soy, soy boy, cucks or what?
Could a hundred Tim Walzes defeat a gorilla?
That's not men.
Ooh, that's fair.
That's fair.
I'm just thinking of, like, a hundred random welders.
Like, a hundred random, like, carpenters.
Or just, like, a hundred random just, you know, just people.
Poor Union guys.
We had a hundred Gorillas.
Yesterday, yeah, we had one Poso versus a hundred Gorillas.
Could they have beaten the Gorilla?
I mean, honestly...
Yeah, I think so.
Or, like, 100 Eagles fans.
What if it was 100 Eagles fans?
I feel like it'd be hard to fit 100 Eagles fans into, like, one combat arena, to be honest, Jack.
Yes, that's the point.
How drunk are they?
That's another question.
Completely wasted.
Just completely and utterly toasted.
Yeah, it will.
I think they would absolutely...
100 dedicated, trained, grown men that are not flabby and out of shape.
We'll win.
But the question is, I think a more interesting question is what Charlie was getting at, is how many would get maimed or killed in the process?
And would the men have enough fortitude to continue on when he inevitably crushes some just like that?
This simulation is so ridiculous.
Stop showing this.
Gorillas are not 15 feet tall.
This is documentary footage, Charlie.
This is so ridiculous.
So right now, why would they not be jumping on his back?
He's distracted with those four poor souls that are going to die.
Because they're terrified.
All the guys in the back are just standing there.
They're terrified.
I would go on his back.
You got a little bit of leverage there.
Well, that is a very interesting conundrum, right?
If you're going to be one of the first guys to jump in, you're probably going to get...
Killed or maimed badly.
So who goes first?
I don't know.
Flip a coin.
That's the difficulty of it.
How'd they do it at Normandy?
One is guys would just get really amped up about it and gave a lot of glory to it.
And also there wasn't the one total certainty of dying most of the time.
But that's kind of what breaks apart armies.
If you read about ancient warfare...
A few of their guys would die and, like, the rest would just kind of get terrified and freak out and run away.
That's why they preferred super poor people to be in their military, like, the front lines.
No, no, usually it was elite aristocrats who would be on the front lines.
But wouldn't they just, like, draft, like, random, like, peasant people?
You could.
Some armies would do that.
That would all be just mass.
But those guys couldn't fight at all.
That's the thing.
It's all about motivation and, like, spirit of, you know, spirit decor, as they call it.
Like...
You need guys to feel like they really are bound with the other guys.
They can trust the other guys and fight with them.
Otherwise, they fall apart instantly.
And that's why the U.S., for example, could beat Iraq, like Saddam Hussein's army, so easily.
We're outnumbered by a ton, but our guys would know what they were doing.
They were well-trained.
And in theory, if the Iraqi guys just wouldn't freak out and all kind of run away or surrender right away, they could have inflicted a lot of casualties on us.
But what would happen is we drop a few smart bombs on a key spot.
The leaders would get taken out.
The guys would all freak out and they would just surrender.
And so similarly here, it's like, what if one guy gets out ahead of the rest and the gorilla just pops his head off?
And everyone's like, I'm not going to be guy number two who gets his head popped off.
And then they all run away and freak out.
So I think what we really should shift on this, though, is are there any animals that we think could actually take out a hundred men?
Yeah.
Probably.
I think Charlie and I are having the same thought on the one that would defeat...
Oh, Hippo.
Hippo.
Hippo is the most murderous animal.
Yeah, Hippo kills way more people than lions, way more people than bears, and it could easily destroy them.
But I will push back.
Just so we're clear, they're incredibly fast.
They could run 20 miles an hour.
Yeah, yeah.
Sprinter speed.
But they're largely the most deadly because people underestimate them, not because they're actually the most lethal.
And they're pretty numerous.
Correct.
And they live in a big herd.
And let's not...
Let's not also forget how hungry they get.
They are hungry, hungry hippos.
But the one where, honestly, if there was a hundred men against a lion, I don't think that they would even get close.
A hundred men versus a lion?
They couldn't catch it.
Oh, but first of all, the thing about humans, you know how we can catch these animals, right?
Humans are powerful endurance animals.
So most animals...
Most animals are a lot faster than humans, but they get tired really easily.
Is this in a ring?
Is this in a coliseum?
That's just it.
If you're in a coliseum, you're just chasing around.
Do hippos not have endurance?
Is there water involved?
Hippos have lower endurance, but I think the thing is the hippo is just so strong.
How do you even hurt the hippo?
You're going to karate chop through that blubber?
No, that's true.
Like, big cats are very deadly.
You would have to break the hippo's neck, which is the strongest part of their body.
Yeah.
Jeez.
No, hippos are ridiculously...
Yeah, we have that footage there where it's like the hippo goes after...
Like, there's three lions and the hippo just wrecks it.
You know how those hippos...
Hippos can't, like, swim, by the way?
The way they're moving through the water and all those things is they're just, like, walking on the bottom, but they can still move at the speed of, like, a boat.
You know, there's no primates that actually do endurance hunting.
They also don't sweat.
They don't have sweat glands the way humans do.
And there's been a lot of theories about why it is that humans sweat.
Yeah, but not the way that humans do for cooling.
Like, most animals will...
No, dogs don't sweat.
Yes, they do.
That's why they pant.
They pant.
Yeah, they pant.
And so they pant, and they drink water, and they go into the shade.
But no animals sweat like a human sweats for cooling.
Dogs absolutely sweat.
You guys are wrong.
What dogs can't do is look up.
Dogs can't look straight up.
Okay, you guys are wrong.
So get this.
A lion has a bite force of 650 pounds per square inch.
A grizzly bear has 975 pounds per square inch.
A hippo has 1,800 to 2,000 pounds per square inch in that big old hungry maw of its.
I wonder what a gator has.
There's lots of videos you can find of like...
I literally just said they sweat and they're like, okay, they only sweat through their paws.
That's still sweating.
I know this.
That's the opposite of what I said.
I said that I grew up with a dog.
No, but dogs don't sweat the way humans sweat.
That's the whole point.
They don't do it for thermal regulation.
What do they sweat for then?
Smell really bad, probably.
Just for fun, basically.
For fun.
Why would they sweat if not for thermal regulation?
Do you think that 100 random men 200 years ago would have had a better likelihood of defeating said animals than 100 men in 2025?
That's interesting.
I think they would probably have the better morale, but they're probably malnourished.
They're probably underweight in comparison.
Okay, that's not the point.
Let's just...
Mindset.
Let's pretend that they had a nice week of meals.
Oh, then, yeah, probably.
Would the men of 200 years ago have more capacity?
I guess I would go back and forth on this.
It would kind of depend.
It would actually depend on what society you were taking them out of.
This is 100% real.
I think if you took 100 irascible Scotsmen and they had to fight it, they would probably have a better time than...
My money would be on the Scots.
Like 100 random serfs from the Ottoman Empire.
Well, of course, Charlie would be on the Scots.
Are these like Viking warriors raiding the shores of England?
Maybe.
200 years ago?
Probably not Vikings at that point.
Well, not 200 years.
I'm just saying, are they warrior men that love to fight?
George Washington fighting a hippo.
I wonder what would happen.
George Washington would die.
So, Charlie, we've had a lot of these discussions about the NBA.
George Washington cannot be killed in battle.
Yeah, that's true.
Would Michael Jordan defeat a hippo in battle?
In combat or in basketball?
He'd jump over him.
What's the difference?
I think that the hippo wouldn't be able to catch him.
I thought we just said that hippos can run really fast.
What's with Michael Jordan?
Michael Jordan has agility.
Could Michael Jordan move consistently at 20 miles an hour to escape from the hippo?
I think he could lose...
Can hippos move laterally really well?
This video's wild.
I don't know.
I think we need someone to use an AI to test Michael Jordan fighting versus a hippo.
I think Michael Jordan would, like, take the challenge.
That's the scary thing.
Ooh, yeah.
He'd probably take the challenge right now.
He's very competitive.
Oh, he's very competitive.
Yeah, we have another video there.
That's like a hippo chasing a full, like, desert safari jeep and almost catching it.
Yeah, 19 miles an hour.
Yeah.
Those are scary, man.
You gotta shoot it, man.
You can't go on those safaris without a weapon.
Yep.
Without a doubt.
You see these people go on...
I just want to go on a photographic safari.
I've literally heard...
They end up getting eaten by it.
I once talked to a guy who did that big game hunting stuff.
Oh yeah, I know plenty.
And he said...
He had literally actually had, I guess, like...
If you're like one in like 10 people a year get a permit to hunt an elephant because there's like irascible elephants that they need to call anyway.
You can't import it and all of that.
But they do allow a few people a year to shoot one.
Correct.
And like that was actually very dangerous because the elephant charged them and the guy ran.
But he said that was not the scariest hunting experience he had.
The scariest one was they took like a small little motorboat across a river and it had hundreds of hippos in it.
And it's like if the hippos go berserk, you're going to die.
Without a doubt, yes.
And that's the other scary thing with hippos.
Hippos, one of those is scary.
You can see hundreds and hundreds of hungry, hungry hippos.
Hippos go berserk.
They're not carnivores normally, I believe.
So that's the only good news, is that they're not inclined to...
Yeah, it's just, they're really, they're tanks, because basically they live in Africa, where there's a ton of apex predators, and so you've got to be very hardy to get by.
Wait, do you guys...
So I'm looking up top running speeds for men.
The fastest man ever was clocked at 23.35 miles per hour.
The fastest woman, 21 miles per hour.
But they're saying the average male from 20 to 40 is 5.9 miles an hour.
Do you think it's that big of a drop-off between the fastest man and the average?
I mean...
That doesn't sound totally right.
I mean, you can run on a treadmill six miles an hour.
It's not very fast.
Running at a very...
I would say dead sprint, the average person is maybe going 12, 13 miles an hour.
You can go and run 10 miles an hour on a treadmill, and it's pretty hard.
But you could run a quarter mile at that if you're in good shape.
A really good person could run a mile at that pace.
But endurance is our key.
That's how we outlast them.
And then, yeah.
Yeah, different sources, 12 to 13. Kind of weird that there's no other apes or primates that have that kind of behavior or that biology.
It's kind of weird how that works.
I thought evolution explains everything.
Yeah, I thought that's what we were told, and yet it's so strange that only humans have this biology and this behavior.
Weird.
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All right.
What's the next topic?
Yeah, let's get to the next topic.
All righty.
So the next topic is...
Oh, man.
Every time we do this, I end up like spacing.
Oh, yes.
It's the bods.
All right.
Now, this is more interesting than the gorilla.
All right.
This is a very fascinating one.
This all goes back to...
There's a woman equivalent one, too, that's going viral.
Oh, I haven't seen that one.
You should find that one and get it to us because we have...
What's the original post here?
I'm trying to find it.
It was a series that got seen like 80 million times.
Yeah, there was a bunch of them.
But what was really interesting, let's get the original one here.
We have too many freaking videos.
It's so hard to find, Charlie.
Our teams are just too good.
So remember, a lot of people listen on podcasting, so let's describe it first.
404, there you go.
Okay, so what is going on here is there is a viral...
It started off as a poll that some guy on Twitter posted.
William Costello.
And he posted a photo, and he says, the first reply to this poll, there is a picture of Ollie Mears, I guess, who is some guy.
And it's before and after he did a 12-week gym transformation program.
12-week plus probably testosterone.
Probably, who knows.
But then he says, you could poll, and there were four possible answers, and it was, are you a man or a woman, and do you think he looks better before or after?
The first one, he kind of looks like, I would say, relatively fit, but overweight.
Like, he definitely has too much padding around the middle.
And in the second one, he's cut weight a ton, and so he's like...
He could be a bodybuilder.
Yeah, it's like a bodybuilder look.
So very cut down, very tight, like dehydrated look, but muscular.
And then it says, do you think he looks better before or after?
Men, about...
One-third said he looked better before, two-thirds said he looked better after.
Women who replied, about 80% of them said he looked better before, and only about 20% said he looked better after.
And then what was funny was the follow-up response of someone saying, like, I can't believe women all just lie like this, and they delude themselves into thinking they like this dad bod look better.
And then there was a highly viral response.
From a woman where she says, I'm begging you guys, please understand, we are not lying.
And so I know this will be tough for the people just going, look up this William Costello transformation.
We can put it on our website.
Yeah, we'll put it on the website because you do want the visual angle on this.
But it led to the whole thing.
One, are the women correct to prefer the before picture?
And there's some follow-ups to that, which is...
Kind of the most truthful one, is bodybuilding kind of gay?
Well, there's a lot here.
First of all, men are answering the question differently.
Where men are not saying which one are they attracted to.
They're saying which one looks better.
Right?
So we're not saying which one we're attracted to.
And I don't want to speak for women.
I was surprised by this response.
But first of all, let's just be perfectly clear.
The second picture...
That doesn't happen just for being in the gym.
There's definitely some chemicals that that guy's been putting in his body.
Maybe a little testosterone replacement therapy.
Or a lot.
Let's just be honest.
He is on a full science diet.
Just by going keto, you don't, like in 12 weeks, go through that kind of transformation.
So, I have lots of thoughts.
You guys chime in.
Well, I will say, I hope this doesn't sound...
Self-serving in some way.
But I did...
You remember when P90X was really like a thing?
Oh, yeah.
Andrew, did you do P90X?
Were you a P90X guy?
I did P90X, but I didn't make it 90 days.
I made it 60 days.
It was a cult.
Of course you were.
Of course you were.
It was CrossFit.
It was...
It was the precursor to VHS CrossFit.
VHS CrossFit.
Yeah, precisely.
It was not VHS.
It was DVDs.
It's not that old.
But I did it for 60 days and they had this whole thing where you couldn't eat egg whites.
Everything was lean.
You couldn't eat certain kinds of meats.
You had to eat only lean meats.
And then you worked out every day for 60 days.
When you pair diet with a workout regimen that's pretty intense, you get pretty ripped pretty quick.
I would say within a month, you see really dramatic effects.
And that was just diet and exercise.
Pure diet and exercise, no alcohol, just cutting back the fat.
I'm telling you, this guy's on 12 weeks, no way.
So, anyway.
Well, so, but there's, can we put up real quick, I think it's 412, because I want to move, I want to go back to the original discussion.
So, and I'll explain what this is for folks that are listening.
So, Hugh Jackman, everybody knows that Hugh Jackman, he goes and changes his body type, whatever.
Sure, I'm sure he uses all the science when he does, you know, X-Men and Wolverine.
But what we've got here are two magazine covers, both of Hugh Jackman.
One is a men's magazine.
Muscle and Fitness.
The other is Good Housekeeping, which is, of course, a women's magazine.
So the men's magazine, it's like shredded, you know, and he's got the claws coming out.
His veins are popping.
His muscles are popping.
But on Good Housekeeping, he's slim and he's got this, like, nice shirt on.
It's a V-neck.
You know, it's long sleeve.
He's got a little smile.
And it's a totally different body type.
And keep in mind that these magazine covers are completely dialed in to knowing what their target audience, marketing-wise, would purchase more.
So they know that men go for the look of the Wolverine.
And, you know, Good Housekeeping goes, they want Les Mis, they want the Jean Valjean, you know, theater kid Hugh Jackman, which I think is more probably accurate to the actual Hugh Jackman, by the way.
Yes.
But yeah, they want theater kid Hugh Jackman.
And so it's, I mean, here's an exact...
You know, kind of proof of exactly what we're talking about, that women don't necessarily go for that.
They want, and especially, by the way, this is current women, right?
So they want the guy who's like, oh, he's going to cuddle with me.
He's going to watch some Netflix.
We're going to, you know, have mimosas.
We're going to go to a wine bar for banter.
Like, that's what they go for.
I think the guy in the second picture looks better.
I just, that's just me.
Not that I'm attracted to him.
Okay, alright, Charlie.
Not that there's anything wrong with this.
I say this with an unblemished record of heterosexuality.
Unblemished record.
We wouldn't ever want to blemish that.
That is one thing you do not want to blemish.
So what I would note is people are saying this is like a dad bod thing, but a lot of...
When they talk about dad bod, it's often just guys who are straight up fat.
That really is.
There's a lot of cope to it.
The guy in the first photo, he's clearly strong.
He's in a gym, so that's the point.
That's Andrew's point.
There's some...
Injections happening between picture one and two if he's in a gym for the first picture.
And he's got some strength.
Just looking at him, you can tell that guy could probably deadlift.
I wouldn't be surprised if that guy could deadlift four plates.
And that's pretty strong.
He can bench well and all of that.
And then he cuts away all the fat.
And I will say, I do think it looks weird when you get to those Mr. Olympia level things.
When body fat gets sub 6-7%.
You look strange and a little unsettling, because a normal person doesn't look like that.
Even a really strong guy who would be in some hunter-gatherer society would never look that way.
Some warrior elite that would be on the cover of a women's romance novel would not look that way, as far as I know.
Also, it has to be said, he kind of has a...
Gay look on his face in the second photo.
He's like smiling.
He's pointing right at his receding hairline, which is not getting good.
He hasn't taken the Blake Neff approved, just like shave that stuff off and buzz cut it and accept the power of the chrome dome.
So that might play into it.
But Andrew, you can go.
No, yeah.
So I guess Planet Fitness did a poll.
Previously, I found 78% of women feel men with the dad bods are confident in their own skin.
Dating.com did one where 75% of singles favor dad bods.
So they did some research on why.
And I call BS completely on their findings.
This is from New York Post in 2024.
Not even that old.
But it's saying fitness traits calling them affectionate, nurturant, friendly, and a good parent potential.
Ultra-macho men with big guns also tend to have high levels of testosterone, causing the opposite sex to perceive them as aggressive and unappealing, per a 2020 analysis.
What did they poll, like Brooklyn?
I mean, this is...
That wording also sounds...
It reminds me of how all those anecdotes where women are on hormonal birth control.
100%.
And they date and marry entirely while on hormonal birth control.
They go off it to have a kid and then suddenly realize their husband is not attractive.
Yep, that's right.
And...
Yeah, it's like, okay, yeah, they might want super soft guy if they're essentially permanently tricking their body to think it's pregnant.
All right.
Before we move to the next topic, though, I think we have to say, though, that women do this, too.
All right, women absolutely do this too because there's like the...
The women who dress the way they think other women want them to look versus the way that guys look.
And I'm just going to say it.
There's too much makeup these days.
There's way, way, way too much makeup.
And I get that this is like the Kardashianization of things, of culture.
And that's obviously they sell makeup.
Kylie Jenner sells the makeup.
What do they call it?
I can't even tell what it's called.
But it's the contouring.
They call it the contouring makeup.
Where it's literally to the point where...
When you see them with the makeup off, they have a completely different look.
And in many cases, by the way, the guys are like, wait a minute.
That's what you really look like.
You look better.
What are you doing all this for?
Who are you doing all this for?
They're not doing it for guys because guys like the look that is a little bit more natural, a little bit more just what you would look like on a regular day.
And so the idea that there's too much makeup out there, they're not doing it for guys.
They're doing it for other women.
That is true.
That is true.
So, we're having a debate in the chat.
We should probably bring the folks in on it.
This is Travis Kelsey is, like, the highlight of this article, and they're saying that he has a dad bod in this.
Okay, if Travis Kelsey has a dad bod, that's, like, meaningless.
He's a professional NFL player.
Travis Kelsey is obviously in immaculate shape.
Okay, you know who has a, like, when I think of a dad bod, I think of, like, Shane Gillis.
Yeah, like that.
Is that, like, fair?
That would be the approximation of what a dad would be.
Yeah, that's what I would think of.
Like jovially overweight.
Yeah, like mildly overweight, but not cartoonishly so.
Maybe has some vestigial dad strength, like he worked out in his 20s and kind of still has it.
That sort of thing.
That's what I would think of.
Yeah, it's almost like...
Once you're saying Travis Kelsey is dad bod, I think you're just trying to, like, invent a new fetish or something.
Like, okay.
Wow, my type is professional NFL players.
Wow, we're really delving new depths of understanding here.
But I don't know.
I just think there is something about that, like, going back to the very original thing.
Like, it is weird to get that way.
You almost wonder, like, is there a whole dimension?
Because these popular guys do this bodybuilding stuff now.
And, like, they do get very obsessed with, like, becoming cartoonishly strong or cartoonishly huge.
And some people get truly obsessed with this.
They start taking tons of semi-illegal substances or, like, really risky ones that can damage your heart, damage your gonads, damage all sorts of stuff, because they're obsessed with getting this particular look.
And it totally transcends whatever the original purpose was.
I mean, that's so dehydrous.
Look at that.
Look, why would a...
And by the way, these guys die super early of heart...
Is that Jay Cutler?
I can't remember.
Yeah, it's one of the guys.
They die super early of heart problems.
It's a documented thing.
Yeah, you end up kind of...
Actually, a good line that comes to mind is it's almost like they're male-to-male transsexuals.
They're turning themselves into almost like...
Parody look of a strong guy.
And it goes into this uncanny valley of feeling unnatural.
And often they don't have good functional strength.
The stuff you do to get that appearance is not the same thing you do to just be as strong as possible.
If you want a proof, go watch actual Olympic weightlifting and the guys just look like ogres or something.
They just have a giant barrel-shaped torso.
Because that's actually how you become as strong as possible.
Yeah, but that being said, I'll take one of these.
Guys over, like, the soylenial, you know, Gen Z type that just sits around and is, like, super pasty and all.
I mean, yeah, I get what you're saying, but, you know, you want to be a little closer to the, you know, Travis Kelsey than those types for sure.
But would you take the strangest looking of these guys over just, like...
Hugh Jackman in one of the more slightly female-friendly versions of him.
Yeah, absolutely.
Absolutely.
And this is the schizophrenia of young women online.
They're like, well, looks don't matter, except I want someone that is at least like Travis Kelsey.
Yeah.
Yeah, you want someone 6 '7".
No, they claim that, and they should be, yeah, no, you should be lifting.
If you're out there, guys, you should be lifting.
You should absolutely be lifting.
How long ago was this picture?
Is this recent?
It was spring of 24, so about a year ago.
So it's like a year ago?
This is before she went.
Now, Taylor's got some extra weight there.
Is that from the tour?
What was that?
I don't know.
Maybe she just chubbed up a bit.
I don't relentlessly trash Taylor Swift weight gain and weight loss.
Taylor Swift...
I remember seeing the videos from the tour and Taylor's been chubby for a while now.
So I wasn't sure if it was just from being on tour or being on the road.
What?
What?
It's true.
When she used to be a country singer, she wasn't chubby, but now she's chubby.
She wears all these revealing dresses and outfits, and it's very clear.
I think Taylor Swift is a very appropriate weight.
I don't know how you look at Taylor Swift and say she's chubby.
I'm telling you, she's gotten pretty chubby, especially on this tour.
On the Ares tour, she's chubbed up.
Listen, traveling's tough.
Traveling's tough.
You gotta get your sleep.
Trying to keep the weight off traveling?
You gotta get your sleep.
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All right.
What is the next topic?
Our next topic, we have a clip to set it up.
It's about a big breakthrough in Neuralink.
And we'll play it here in just a sec.
One final thought before we play it.
I have to admit, I do feel like just having that conversation made us all like 2% gayer.
Just 2%.
We have to titrate how often we get into that stuff.
Anyway, let's do clip 405.
Hi, I am Brad Smith.
I'm the third person in the world to receive the Neuralink brain implant.
I'm also the first person with ALS and the first nonverbal, which means that I rely on it for all communication.
I am making this video using the brain-computer interface to control the mouse on my MacBook Pro.
This is the first video edited with the Neuralink, and maybe the first edited with a BCI.
This is my old voice narrating this video, cloned by AI from recordings before I lost my voice.
I want to explain how Neuralink has impacted my life and give you an overview of how it works.
I have ALS, a really weird disease that kills the motor neurons that control my muscles.
But not affecting my mind.
My experience has been pretty interesting, starting with a shoulder injury that would not heal and ending up with my current status.
I cannot move anything but my eyes, and I am totally reliant on a ventilator to keep me alive and breathing.
My wife, Tiffany, is the best caregiver I could ever imagine.
She does everything for me, with only our kids and friends and family to help.
She is the key to making Neuralink work.
I will stop talking about her because she doesn't like the attention.
Before Neuralink, I had to use an eye gaze control computer for all communication.
It is a miracle of technology.
It's pretty amazing.
So, does it translate your thoughts into that?
Is that right?
So, it seems like you can use it to use...
He's got to be careful with that.
You can use it to move a mouse, I think, is one way you can do it.
Or, like, you can type with it.
I don't know.
This stuff blows my mind.
I cannot figure out how they would translate neural synapses in any way into moving a mouse in any direction.
It completely baffles me.
I remember when people would talk about the Neuralink stuff when it was first taking off a couple years ago.
People felt very ominous about it.
It's that transhumanism thing.
Those people who want to replace our bodies with machines and all of that.
The first places you are going to see it is with people like this who have debilitating injuries.
ALS is Lou Gehrig's disease.
I don't know if he maybe has it the way Stephen Hawking did, where maybe he's totally paralyzed, but he can live a long time after that.
But Stephen Hawking was able to communicate.
I think he could move a finger or something.
He could twitch.
He had some extremely limited movement, and he could use that over time to do things like type.
It was very labor-intensive, I believe.
This sounds like it's a lot more efficient than that.
And of course they have that bit where they can use an AI-generated voice.
Hawking didn't have that because he became sick decades ago.
All that sort of thing.
But it is interesting.
Do we still find this unsettling?
Because it seems like great progress.
Is there a dividing line between brain implants that you can get that are good and brain implants that are bad?
I mean, this is obviously objectively good, right?
I mean, there's no issue with this whatsoever.
I mean, this is a medical treatment for...
I mean, ALS is devastating.
I mean, if it goes to the place where it deteriorates your being, I mean, not so good, I suppose.
But, yeah, I mean, I don't have much deeper thought than that.
Then this is overall...
Promising.
Will it be able to eventually help paralyze people, be able to walk again?
What are the other applications?
Well, I think the idea, though, is there's ethical considerations when it comes to, okay, Neuralink.
Absolutely.
As amazing as this is, and amazing, I'm sure there's going to be more videos.
I mean, it's like when you see these videos of, you know, child sees for the first time, that kind of thing.
And it's just remarkable.
It's absolutely miraculous.
But the ethical considerations, I believe, come in when, let's say you have someone who is, number one, someone who's completely...
Healthy and then decides to undergo a procedure like this.
We certainly have a lot of elective surgeries and a lot of elective transformations that are going on.
And perhaps even the rise of people who say that we should all be doing this.
And I could easily see a movement take off like this.
Where it becomes this sort of transhumanism movement where they say we'd be better to live this way.
We're connected more.
It's creating a utopia.
It becomes almost a quasi-religion to undergo these types of treatments.
And then, which, you know, obviously beyond the current applications, we're talking, you know, like sci-fi style down the line.
And then also, of course, there's a...
Absolutely going to be ethical considerations to the questions of sort of, you know, where does the human mind stop and where does the computer begin?
I'm reading more about how they do it.
So the device they put in, it's about the size of five quarters in a stack.
And they put it in your skull.
apparently it basically can interface with your neurons and then they use machine learning which is the same way that they train the ai large language models and i guess they're able to use pattern recognition from when your neurons fire to sort of pattern match to what you're attempting to do over time and so you can basically train this into understanding what you want to do and I'm with Jack.
I think the part where you start to worry is, for example...
Let's say these are relatively safe and usable for other people.
What if jobs start to require that you have Neuralinks to do various things?
What if you are a perfectly healthy person and you're getting these purely to augment your abilities in some sphere?
What if you get a Neuralink but it requires a paid monthly subscription and if you stop paying the monthly subscription they will deactivate the Neuralink in your skull?
And they actually use robot surgeons because the surgery is impossible for a human to perform.
Wait, if we have...
Surgeries and the robots are better at those.
Shouldn't we just be using robots for all the surgeries?
We will and we should.
I've been saying that for a while.
Again, I go to these campuses and I'm like, you know surgery is going to be replaced.
No, they won't!
We're America so we'll probably have some annoying law that gets passed where you're required to have the surgeon push the on button on the robot and they'll get paid $500,000.
Do you know how many problems there are in surgery?
Human error in surgery is a major, major problem.
There's that Seinfeld episode where they leave the Thin Mint inside of them.
The Junior Mint.
Yeah, but that's real.
No, people...
That must happen.
People have been sued for leaving, like, gauze inside of people.
Yes, all the time.
I mean, they've amputated the wrong arm.
How about just infections?
Infections.
I mean, infections alone are a major problem, right?
So, without a doubt.
I mean, this is very promising, but I can see the transhumanism thing.
I don't like it.
Well, you could also see the getting hacked thing, right?
Like, anything that's technological could get hacked in theory, right?
So, you walk through a certain scanner, if you got this in your brain, maybe, you know, it kind of reminds me of that one movie, Leave the World Behind, where, you know, all the Teslas start, like, getting hacked and ramming, you know, into one another down a freeway.
It's like, you kind of wonder, anytime you bring technology into the human environment...
Could you get hacked and could it be used as a, maybe it's a national security issue if this thing becomes so popular or prominent?
So I have a lot of ethical concerns about this.
And, you know, the further we get away from just being organic humans, you know, the Gattaca world that people have theorized and fantasized about, scary, scary stuff.
I mean, when you think about how many neurodegenerative disorders there are, Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, I mean, is it immoral to prevent treatments like this from being able to be administered, right?
I think it's a valid point.
Oh, now someone's reminding us.
No, go ahead.
Shane is reminding us that they had...
There was a Black Mirror episode where you had brain implanted advertisements that would play.
I never liked Black Mirror.
Yeah, see what I mean?
There's going to be all sorts of stuff like that.
So that's where I come in and I say, you know, you want to balance the good, right, that we're talking about, you know, helping people who have, you know, whatever disability or handicap that they may have undergone.
But at the same time, you want to balance that with the understanding that You know, Andrew, like you said, Gattaca is one of my favorite movies.
I think it's the most important movie I've ever watched in my life.
I once said that I'm never going to get married to someone who doesn't understand Gattaca completely.
And that's actually something that I brought up with Tanya once years ago.
And, you know, it's huge.
And unfortunately, that is the way that we're going to be going.
And by the way, you already have this with the rise of IVF.
And so with IVF plus genetic screening, this is already something that's happening where people know that through abortion, there's already been a massive, massive purging of any child with Down syndrome.
Well, now with the rise of IVF, what are people doing?
They're going for the designer babies already.
They're saying, oh, you know, I want my, you know, I want a girl or I want a boy and I want this eye color, that hair color, this and that and the other thing.
And other people are now talking about screening for intelligence or screening for personality types.
I think they're called an ICSI test.
And there's all sorts of different screenings that you can do genetically, and I think And I'll just say it potentially as.
Those of us who comment on politics, should there be some type of framework in place for conducting all of this stuff?
Because right now, it's just the complete Wild West.
That is true.
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Last topic.
Our last one is closely related to this, but maybe a bit funnier.
So this is how AIs are going to hack us, not with computer technology, but with social technology.
So, I'm just going to read through this thread.
It was posted on X by the user RedditLies, which is a great follow.
You should give it a look.
Really good.
So this is...
The University of Zurich has been using AI bots to secretly manipulate Reddit users since November 2024.
The scariest part, I'm just going to read through it.
The bots were six times more likely to change the minds of Redditors than the baseline user, often by leveraging misinformation.
So I'll just go through this thread here.
So there's a paper, it's titled Can AI Change Your Views?
It details the exact process the University of Zurich researchers used to put the AI and have it interact on Reddit.
This was all done in secret.
They didn't tell users of the site, and they didn't tell moderators.
And so what they were doing was they...
Let's see.
Basically, before replying to anyone in...
They went to the, I think, the ChangeMyView subreddit, which is a place where people try to change their views.
It's kind of like ProveMeWong on Reddit.
And they would unleash these bots on there to respond to people.
And first, before replying to anyone, the bot would just stalk every post that the person had ever made to try to figure out their beliefs, their various biases, their background, and all of that.
And then it would use this and the AI bot to craft responses to them that would be perfectly calibrated.
And then they would use common progressive misinformation in their arguments, it notes.
Bots would claim things like the pro-life movement is about punishing sex rather than about protecting human life.
They would demonize Elon Musk and tell lies about Tesla.
And they would do things.
They would claim abortion rates are already low.
I guess they were in a lot of abortion threats.
A lot of those on Change My View.
They would say that Christianity preaches violence against LGBT people.
They would say Industrial Revolution has only increased inequality.
And they would say society has outgrown Christianity.
They would also hallucinate facts about themselves to strengthen their arguments.
So the bots would do things like they would claim to be a hard-working city government employee.
That's how we know it's hallucinated.
They would claim to be a white woman working in an almost all-black office.
And they once...
Hallucinated the claim that they were a rape victim in the past.
And so they would do all of this.
And if I understand correctly, when it says hallucinated, because I read through this thread earlier, it was basically going and making these Reddit posts and it was lying to users about experiences that had potentially happened.
Like, making up a rape case, or there was one that was, I'm a white woman in an all-black office or something, and it was using these stories to get the Reddit users that it was targeting to then shift their beliefs based on whatever the story, you know, whatever message the story was put.
Exactly, exactly.
That's the thing about it.
And it wasn't prompted with this, like, convince this person to take this view by telling them this story.
It was just...
Try to get this person to change their view.
And to do it, it would invent a persona for itself, invent a fake background.
And as it concludes here, compared to the baseline, it was pretty good at getting people to self-report changing their views.
And it says, so the kind of three takeaways are, one, AI bots are difficult to detect because part of this is people were not reading this and going, oh, this is obviously a bot.
Second, the AIs will just...
Tell complete lies to try to win arguments.
And three, these lies can be incredibly persuasive specifically to Redditors which is not surprising because all of these bots are substantially trained on Reddit because they need so much text.
The way large language models work for those who don't know is they just...
Feed tons and tons and tons and tons and tons and billions and billions of words, trillions of words of text into them to find patterns.
And that's how they work.
Every time you're talking with them, it's using a model that basically is predicting what would be the next letter or word I should use that would make sense in context.
And it's a giant pattern matching machine.
So you feed it things like Reddit so it can develop patterns.
And the incredible side effect of this is if AI is hard to detect, good at lying, and good at, like, tricking people, you can get into what is called dead internet theory.
Have you heard of this, Charlie?
That there really is no human beings, right?
So, basically, it is that, yeah, that in the future, or possibly already, it's a conspiracy theory of sorts, it's that a huge share of the stuff you see on the internet will just be bots, like, or bots talking to other bots.
And the number of actual human beings...
That you are interacting with is extremely tiny.
It will just be bots everywhere.
Like, you'll go to the gardening subreddit and it will just be a bunch of bots unleashed to talk about gardening, talking to each other, and they can be sharing AI-generated images and so on.
And the number of actual humans who are just real human beings doing their stuff will be far lower.
I don't think this is true yet, but I think it will be a lot more true in the future.
You can see the early signs of it on Facebook, for example.
Well, and YouTube as well.
We talked about this, I think, last week or a couple weeks ago about how, remember we were talking about how there's these communities that make up, like, fake AI.
Remember, Blake, it's like a fake AI universe and, like, an alt universe that's going on where it's just this slop content.
That never actually existed, and it's like all going viral.
Well, I was trying to look up something on YouTube.
I just went to YouTube, and I wanted to look up, because I was at the press conference with Caroline Levitt, and so I was trying to look up the actual video of it.
So I type in her name, Caroline Levitt, and I wanted to get the clip to pull.
And YouTube, in the algorithm, feeds me Caroline Levitt, Jimmy Kimmel.
And it auto-completed it as that.
And I said...
Wait, Caroline was on with Jimmy Kimmel?
Like, I feel like I would have remembered that.
Like, when did that happen?
Was this, like, some old thing?
So I click on it to see what populates, and sure enough, what comes up is Caroline Levitt gets thrown off the Jimmy Kimmel show after Fiery Clash.
Well, as it turns out, this thing is completely made up by AI, but because so many people are sharing it, the YouTube algorithm was then feeding it to me even when I typed her name in for an event that never actually happened.
I mean, another one that's wild, for example, actually, this came up just while I was searching.
I was like, we're going to talk about hippos probably after the gorillas, so I was like, let's go find some clips of...
Of Taylor Swift.
Of hippo attacks.
And I got a clip and it was like, man tries to feed hippo and instantly regrets it.
And I didn't go deep into it, but I'm pretty sure the video was essentially voiced by AI.
It was cobbled together.
Some real clips, but I think some of them...
The thumbnail was definitely AI.
I'm now looking at the front page and it's got like...
You guys will get a kick out of this.
It's got an AI-generated image of a killer humpback whale jumping onto the beach to devour a fat woman.
That was definitely created with AI.
And this thing has 500,000 subscribers on YouTube.
And it's getting hundreds of thousands or millions of views on a lot of these posts.
And you find this more and more.
I read a lot of history.
I listen to a lot of history videos on YouTube.
Like, oh, I'll go learn about the Roman Empire, which I'm always thinking of.
And there will be real channels that I like, and I'll constantly be getting these recommendations that they'll have tons of views, they'll have tons of followers, and if I click on it, I just realize this is an AI voice with AI content.
It's really superficial.
It's not good.
Totally.
And they get tons of views.
And there's hugely powerful.
People love AI slop.
They love that stuff.
Unless those are just bots.
Unless those are just bots.
Maybe this is dead internet theory already, like bots following other bots.
I, uh, I used you and you can do this by the way with, um, so, oh, by the way, you can use this with already existing people.
So I did when I was doing my last audio book, I did a chapter of it.
I've still never revealed this one.
I actually recorded a chapter using an AI generated voice of myself just to see how it sounded.
I inserted it in the audio book and nobody who has listened to this has ever been able to tell me which one is.
Actually, the AI one.
So we're going to get to the point pretty soon where, Charlie, you're not even going to have to do the campus tours anymore because we'll just have AI Charlie Kirk owns leftist student and, you know, you could just be sitting there clicking a button.
That is true, but I think I will say, though, that just because technology can do it better than humans doesn't mean people won't desire humans.
I mean, we could drive in cars, which are faster than watching people run, but we still have football and basketball.
I mean, there is something about raw human excellence that will attract humanity more than just machines.
All right, guys.
Keep on committing thought crimes.
Thanks so much for listening, everybody.
Email us, as always, freedom at charliekirk.com.
Thanks so much for listening, and God bless.
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