America may have as many as 20 million illegal immigrants. Getting them back home is crucial, but right now Trump's deportations are only on pace for about a million people after four years. John Yoo explains what the holdup is and how it could get back on track. Former Trump communications director Tim Murtaugh explains the "Biden Pill Penalty" and how the administration can unlock greater innovation in American medicine. Become a member at members.charliekirk.com! Get new merch at charliekirkstore.com!Support the show: http://www.charliekirk.com/supportSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Hey everybody, Charlie Kirk here, live from the Bitcoin.com studio.
John Yoo joins the program with some very heavy news about deportations.
The courts are going to stop it.
They're going to try to stop it.
We're going to dive deep into this and see how we can solve it.
Tim Murtaugh joins us about...
What we've inherited from Joe Biden, we talk about Rosie O'Donnell and Dick Durbin in an action-packed episode that I encourage you to text to your friends.
Email us, as always, freedom at charliekirk.com and subscribe to our podcast that is the Charlie Kirk Show podcast page.
Buckle up, everybody.
Here we go.
Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.
Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus.
I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.
Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.
I want to thank Charlie.
He's an incredible guy.
His spirit, his love of this country.
He's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point USA.
We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.
That's why we are here.
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Joining us now is John Yu, distinguished visiting professor at University of Texas at Austin and law professor at UC Berkeley.
So, Professor Yu, I have several questions here.
What due process is an illegal alien afforded to if they have been here for, let's say, three years?
And without warrant, without invitation, what kind of due process constitutionally do they have to have before we're allowed to return them to their country of origin?
Charlie, great to be with you.
Thanks for having me back.
Everybody should understand that when we say due process, it means different things in different places.
So the ultimate form of due process is when you or I are charged by the government with a crime.
Then we get jury trials, we get Miranda warnings, we get the right to a lawyer.
Even at the government's expense, we have the right to appeal all the way to the Supreme Court, and so on.
That's not the kind of due process that illegal aliens get.
They can get a fairly minimal amount of due process.
Maybe all the right they have is to be presented for an immigration judge, have the right to claim that they're not who the government says they are, maybe get a right to go to a federal court after that, and then it's done.
And they don't get a jury trial.
It's not a criminal proceeding where the government has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the alien is here illegally.
It's a much lower standard of evidence.
And it can be done quickly and swiftly.
Okay, so the quickly and swiftly, though, And the way that this is working, though, they're saying that some of these court dates are going to be years of proceedings per illegal alien.
I mean, we could potentially only be able to deport a couple hundred thousand people under this.
This is largely unworkable.
It doesn't have to be that way.
The reason why it's taking so long is because Congress, for many decades, has refused to pay for enough...
Officials refuse to pay for enough border agents, refuse to pay for a wall, refuse to pay for enough immigration judges.
If you could have more immigration judges, you could speed that whole process up.
And I think that's actually in part what the Trump administration is trying to do when it's trying to deport people under the Alien Enemies Act rather than under the regular immigration laws, is that they're trying to impress on everybody the need for speed and that the speed is really up to Congress.
Congress has to provide more money.
And Congress has said they always say they want to help fix the border problem.
Well, here's their great chance to do it.
Right. So let's just go a level deeper into this, which is this seems like it's completely and totally unworkable right now.
People in our coalition are frustrated because it seems like left-wing courts are in fact requiring a full three-year process for every illegal alien.
Is there any way for the administration to create more immigration judges without direct congressional action?
Well, this is why this other area that they're fighting about, empowerment and reallocating funding, downsizing the government, closing down wasteful spending, maybe you can move some of that money.
During this time of emergency, the one thing Trump has done is declared a national emergency at the border because of immigration.
That gives him the ability, perhaps, to move some more money.
Also, he has to, I think, fight with these wayward road trial judges.
There are trial judges in the country who, I think, have gone beyond their constitutional role and are trying to interfere with the executive branch, with the president's rightful authority over national security and immigration.
But at bottom, it's really a question of resources.
You have to speed up these hearings.
You have to speed up the detentions at the front level.
And then you have to fight with the courts, go all the way to the Supreme Court if necessary, to make clear to these lower court judges that they don't have the right, as you say, Charlie, to turn it into a three-year process when it could be less than a year.
It could be done quickly if there's cooperation between the Congress and the President and the courts.
Right. So you've raised some questions about Trump's use of the Alien Enemies Act.
You've obviously had criticisms for the district court judges.
What is a workable off-ramp here where we uphold the SCOTUS rulings?
I worry what you see here are you've got these district judges, some of whom want to press and create some kind of constitutional crisis by going beyond their role.
At the same time, I think there's some people in the Trump administration who could also pull us away from the brink of some kind of confrontation.
And I actually think the Supreme Court has intervened several times to give the benefit of the doubt to the Trump administration.
So, for example, when they told the trial judge in this Garcia case, you can't force the government to bring Garcia immediately into court.
What are you going to do, order the president to invade El Salvador and grab him out of the prison?
They said, no, re-examine.
The government has to facilitate his return, but judges have to respect the president's authority under the Constitution into foreign affairs.
Courts can't order the president.
On the other hand, I think Trump has the authority to declare an invasion, but he needs to tell the American people and the courts why we're under invasion, why we're at a state of war with Venezuela, why this Tren del Aragua group is a terrorist group that's acting as an arm of the Venezuelan government.
The more he can provide that information, the easier it is for the courts to accept it.
And then we can step away from the brink of some kind of confrontation between the president and the judiciary.
So, are there any other potential solutions here?
Because Trump does act as the commander-in-chief, and we know what's happening here, is that far-left-wing activists are trying to slow down the gears of deportation.
Basically, without a fix here, we will not have mass deportations.
We'll actually have less deportations than Obama or even Biden did.
I'm afraid that's right.
I mean, part of what...
Trump really is doing here, I think he is doing and has to do, is to deter people from coming in the first place, or to make clear if they hit the border, they're going to be turned right around and sent back.
And so one part of that is showing that we're not going to have the open borders that Biden did, that we're not going to just catch people and release them into the country, that we're going to tighten up the immigration rule process.
But another part of that is, as you suggest, Charlie, we have to start speeding up.
The role of the court so that they can't delay every single deportation into a three-year odyssey where people can spend years and years here while their lawyers just delay things in court.
And so I think there is some value for President Trump fighting these rogue district judges all the way to the Supreme Court.
But also...
I think he's having a lot of effect there.
Under Biden's worst months in his open borders policy, we were catching or encountering maybe 350,000 a month, illegal aliens a month at the border.
You know what, Charlie?
That number is down to 7,000 a month.
That's an amazing achievement.
And I think Trump has to keep this.
Strong deterrent, in effect, in order to keep those numbers low and keep them dropping.
Yeah, we're only on pace right now for about 292,000 deportations a year, largely because of the courts and just kind of slowing it down to this grinding process.
And so I know that you've argued for executive authority and ability here.
It's just very hard for our audience to comprehend why is it someone who breaks into our country?
Should be afforded all of these extra legal rights when they're not a U.S. citizen.
So explain that to us.
I know it's very hard for people to understand, but the 14th Amendment's guarantee of due process doesn't only apply to citizens.
It also applies to all people in the United States.
So everyone in the United States, even people who get into the country illegally, have a right to due process.
But the important thing for people to remember
The government and the courts have recognized that illegal aliens shouldn't get the same level of due process as, say, you and me, Charlie, if we commit a crime.
That's why they don't get all the protections of the Bill of Rights that you will get in a criminal trial.
That's why there is the ability to speed up the process, to allow the government to present proof, and to have...
The alien tried to prove that he's not here illegally or she's here illegally, but then if they lose, they should be deported quickly.
Maybe it's the case that Congress should expand the number of judges, expand the number of border agents, but then make the due process even lighter and make the process proceed even faster.
Yeah, I hope that happens, but it does not look good at this point.
The will of the people will be thwarted by an unelected judiciary, it seems.
I'm afraid that's true.
And this is really up to the Supreme Court now.
It's the Supreme Court's problem.
There are about 1,000 federal trial judges sitting all around the country.
Some of them obviously do not agree with President Trump's immigration agenda.
They would be more than happy to have the Biden system where years and years and years are spent hearing deportation cases.
It's up to the Supreme Court.
And Trump is sending cases forward that give them the opportunity to control.
To make clear that these rogue trial judges are not there to try to frustrate the agenda that the majority of Americans support when they elected President Trump to speed up the immigration deportation system.
That said, the judges are there to make sure that the due process protections are observed and honored.
And I think there is the possibility of a compromise between the two branches.
The worst thing can happen is if these rogue trial judges keep slowing things down and frustrates the agenda that the majority of Americans voted for in the immigration area.
John Yoo, thank you for your time here.
I certainly hope we have a more optimistic conclusion here because it's not good for anybody, not good for our country, if all of a sudden the people vote for something and they don't not just get it, but they will get so significantly thwarted.
So thank you so much for your time.
I couldn't agree with you more, Charlie.
Thanks very much for having me back.
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Senator Dick Durbin from my home state of Illinois is not running for re-election.
To give you an idea, Dick Durbin has been a U.S. Senator since I was four years old.
I'm 31. He's been a senator for as long as I have memory.
Senator Dick Durbin, from the state of Illinois, has been the number two Senate Democrat since 2005, for over 20 years.
Durbin reflects a lot of the rot among Democrats for over half a century.
He's a lot like Joe Biden, actually.
A lot.
When he first joined Congress, he favored a constitutional amendment to reverse Roe v.
Wade. Now he's a fanatical abortion supporter and wants abortions paid for with Medicaid.
He's been the biggest pusher of the DREAM Act.
He wants to have mass amnesty under all circumstances.
He's been a leading advocate for the DREAM Act.
He introduced it in 2001.
He was a vocal opposition to the Born Alive Abortion Survivors Protection Act.
Durbin voted against the legislation which would have said that if a baby is born alive, you must allow it to live in an abortion.
Dick Durbin, major supporter of men and female sports.
Durbin vocally opposed the Protection of Women in Girls Sports Act.
He contended the bill infringed on the rights and dignity of transgender youth.
In addition, Dick Durbin is the worst of the Democrat Party.
And by the way, he didn't just support the DREAM Act, he wrote the DREAM Act.
He basically is the original amnesty Democrat.
But Dick Durbin, tragically, embodies what's happened to my home, my home state of Illinois.
When he entered the Senate, as I mentioned, he was pro-life, and now he's radically pro-abortion.
Dick Durbin became more and more radical as Illinois has cratered.
As Illinois has moved away from the center and has become a left, left-wing state, with it was Dick Durbin.
Dick Durbin has never done anything meaningful for the state of Illinois.
Under his leadership as a U.S. senator, Illinois has dramatically lost population.
Chicago has become a laughingstock.
It's become more dangerous.
It's become more impoverished.
It's become less of a center of industry and business.
As Dick Durbin has been a U.S. Senator, we have lost major companies that otherwise would have been headquartered in the great state of Illinois.
And it is hard for me to even say this, because Illinois should be one of the leading states in the country.
It's people, work ethic, central geography.
Illinois should be a leader in industry.
But Dick Durbin is a parasite.
Dick Durbin has never created anything in his life.
He attaches on to other people's success, and it will ruin it.
Dick Durbin has not improved the well-being or the life of the people of Illinois.
And whoever replaces him will probably be some radical activist from Chicago.
They'll probably have some DEI Olympics or something.
The best thing that Dick Durbin has ever done is actually retire, unlike Pelosi or Bernie.
Dick Durbin has vocally supported the get-out-of-jail-with-zero-bail-nonsense that has infected the great state of Illinois.
And I talk about Illinois with great lamentation.
And it's because of people like Dick Durbin.
And it is a cabal.
People like Mike Madigan, people like Dick Durbin, they all work together and in harmony to drive Illinois off of a cliff.
While the other neighboring states have done quite well.
Indiana has done quite well.
Tennessee has done quite well.
There's no reason why Illinois should have not kept pace.
However, Dick Durbin was part of a Democrat mafia that assumed complete control and power of Illinois in the late 1990s.
Under that mafia, they realized to pander to the public sector teacher unions, to keep taxes high, burdensome regulation, to give Chicago whatever it wants, to not rein in the crookedness of Cook County.
And it pains me to say this because I love Illinois.
I love Chicago.
We just had incredible crowds when we visited.
But Dick Durbin is the worst of the state of Illinois.
And that's too bad because there's some phenomenal people in Illinois.
And I say this.
I do not know if Illinois can be saved in the next 10 years, the next 20 years.
It might have to hit total rock bottom before Illinois can rebuild itself.
The collar counties like DuPage and Lake, which used to be somewhat Republican counties, are all blue.
DuPage used to be a Republican stronghold.
It is completely blue.
It's too bad, and it's a tragedy, really.
And Dick Durbin is largely to blame for that.
So corrupt, so selfish, so pandering to foreigners over Americans.
Dick Durbin is retiring in disgrace and he's leaving a worse state as he leaves.
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Joining us now is Tim Murtaugh, who is the former communications director for Trump 2020 and also the Trump 2024 senior advisor.
Tim, great to see you.
You have a unique premise and vantage point because you warned about so much of Biden's failures in the 2020 campaign.
And now we actually have to unravel so much of what we've inherited from Joe Biden.
So talk about some of the predictions you made that came true, some things that were even worse, and the work that now President Trump has to do to unravel this inheritance.
That Joe Biden gave him.
Yeah, well, it's great to be with you, Charlie, and thanks very much for having me on.
We did, we tried to warn everybody in 2020 what America would get itself into if Joe Biden became president of the United States, and by God, we were right about almost all of it.
I mean, you may remember that he ran what everybody was calling the basement strategy, and we said that it was because he wasn't up to the challenge of going out on the campaign trail, articulating his ideas, answering questions coherently from the news media, and actually running a campaign.
We were right about that.
Of course, the national news media said, oh, that was crazy.
They're just being careful because of COVID.
He's only hiding in the basement because they don't want him to get sick.
And then, of course, they all played along the whole time he was in the White House when they were concealing his mental decline and all of that.
And we said that Joe Biden was going to be a disaster for a lot of things.
We said he was going to be a disaster on the economy.
We said that we talked about immigration a lot.
We said Joe Biden, and if you let Joe Biden and the Democrats be in charge of the White House, they are going to throw open the gates of America, and they are going to let millions upon millions of illegal aliens into this country, basically no questions asked.
We pointed that out day after day after day.
Of course, the national news media said, first of all, that's racist.
And second of all, you have...
No, nothing to base that on.
That is a baseless claim.
Their favorite thing to say was, you know, the Trump campaign claimed without evidence, they used to say.
Well, now we've got plenty of evidence.
And of course, President Trump is digging out from under of the, you know, tens of millions of illegal aliens that are somewhere across this country.
And every single time he does, the Democrats and the news media latch onto these stories.
We've seen it with the alleged Maryland man and all that.
And I think this is one of the greatest thing, I think, that President Trump is trying to do is defend the sovereignty of the United States of America.
And that begins with fighting off the illegal aliens and deporting the ones who are already here.
So Donald Trump won a triumphant victory.
What people don't understand, though, is when you win and power is changed from one regime to another, from a Democrat to a Republican, you have to get into the weeds to decouple.
To decouple away from so much of the decisions the prior administration made.
And we're still learning about some of the gunk, some of the trash that Joe Biden left us, and also some of the landmines that Joe Biden left us.
I mean, I hear from agency officials and from cabinet secretaries, they'd say, you have no idea, not just the staffing of the deep state, but...
Regulatory measures, decisions that were made in the prior administration at the 11 p.m. midnight that can't be undone for a certain period of time or else there's going to be a court injunction.
Tim, what also is Donald Trump working on as far as things that Joe Biden left him, the landmines and the decisions that he has to course correct on?
Well, there's one big one that has begun to come to light because President Trump just issued an executive order just last week on this, and it's inside the poorly named—I know everyone loves to name bills on the left.
They name bills for exactly what they are not.
But inside the Inflation Reduction Act, which did absolutely nothing to solve the problem of inflation that Joe Biden left President Trump, inside the IRA there was something that's come to be known as the Biden pill penalty.
And what that is, is Joe Biden favored one form of medicine over another form of medicine.
He favored what are called large molecule medicines.
Think of things that you have to go to the hospital for, IVs and infusions, injections, those sorts of things.
Favored those at the expense and discriminated against pill form medicine.
And that's just a ridiculous idea because pills...
are 71% cheaper on average than other forms of medicine.
They're cheaper to make.
They're cheaper for patients.
They're cheaper for the entire healthcare community.
And look, patients groups, doctors groups, yeah, pharmaceutical companies, business groups, conservative groups, everyone told the Democrats at that time, if you do this, this is what's going to happen.
And so it passed with zero Republican votes.
And what came to pass was exactly what was predicted.
70%. Three quarters of the R&D dollars have moved away.
From pills.
That means that no new breakthroughs are happening.
And we're talking about mental health drugs, Alzheimer's drugs, cancer drugs, those sorts of things.
That means fewer pills hitting the market, raising costs for everyone.
And again, pills are the cheaper, more effective way that people get their drugs.
71% cheaper on average.
And that's what Joe Biden left us.
The Biden pill penalty.
And there is legislation in Congress to fix that.
It's called the EPIC Act.
But more likely, it'll be in the, as the president...
It's the Biden pill penalty, and it really, it's raising costs of the healthcare system.
Heck, Joe Biden said he was going to be the guy who cured cancer.
Well, he actually made it more difficult by discriminating against and discouraging the creation of life-saving pills, life-saving medicines that people are used to.
It's disgraceful.
And in the Inflation Reduction Act, there's over $370 billion to...
Climate change initiatives.
I mean, it's all over the place.
So what did President Trump do last week?
Remind our audience what exactly he signed and the significance of it.
Yeah, so it's an executive order that addressed the reduction of prescription drugs for Americans, which is of main concern.
I'm paying attention to this.
I have elderly parents and, like most people, other elderly people in my family, and the cost of the system is of great concern.
And the EO that he signed instructs the Secretary of Health and Human Services, that's Robert F. Kennedy Jr., of course, to work with Congress, specifically mentioned in the EO, is to get rid of what's known as the Biden pill penalty.
Now, another way that the Biden pill penalty has been terrible, think about generic drugs.
Generic drugs are a very cost-effective way that a lot of people get their medication.
Think of Lipitor, for example, which is a well-known cholesterol drug.
Because of generics, People can get their cholesterol medicine for basically pennies per dose.
Well, the Biden pill penalty flatly discourages generics from even entering the market.
And so those cost reductions never occur.
And Charlie, I know this will resonate with the MAGA community here.
Guess who has noticed what's going on with the Biden pill penalty?
You're never going to believe it, but China.
China knows what's going on, and China knows an opportunity when they see it, and they are investing in pill medicine, research and development in ways that they have never done before because they know that pills are the cheaper way, the more effective way for people to get their medicine.
People will take the medicine they need if it's convenient to them.
Heck, you can get pills in the mail.
And so they're keeping their people healthy on the front end, while America, because of the Biden pill penalty, has backed away.
From developing pills.
And again, 71% cheaper pill medicines over these other forms of medicine.
Again, mental health, Alzheimer's, cancer, all kinds of drugs.
The University of Chicago says 188 different cures have not been found since 2021 when the IRA and the pill penalty were introduced.
And that means 116 million life years off the life expectancy of Americans who are living today.
Is that your family?
My family?
I don't know.
But it's the Biden pill penalty.
Well, I'm not exactly sure what I'm going to predict what he's going to put out in executive orders,
but I can tell you that the America First policies, and you're exactly right, when you're ripping the Band-Aid off and when you're in there digging in and trying to undo some of the stuff that's taken hold.
Just look at the way that the swamp is reacting to him.
Look at the way that they're attacking Pete Hegseth, for example.
Anytime you bring in a starkly new direction of leadership, this is the kind of reaction you're going to get.
And I love that CNN was forced to admit that it's basically a rounding error.
Only 2% of Trump voters regret their vote despite what the talking heads say.
Oh, people are regretting their vote.
No, they don't.
No, they don't.
More people regret voting for Kamala Harris.
Donald Trump is doing exactly what he said he was going to do on the campaign trail.
No one should be surprised.
He's coming up on the 100 day mark and full steam ahead.
Tim, thanks so much.
Come back soon.
Really appreciate it.
Thank you.
Great. Thank you, Charlie.
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Rosie O'Donnell has decided to self-deport.
And to the previous segment, I do want to play off of this, and we're going to go to Rosie O'Donnell.
That conversation with Professor Yu is a little bit disturbing.
Now, mind you, one part I should have mentioned is that there are 1.6 million illegals that have deportation orders.
They've had their due process, so we can ship them out immediately.
So let's do that while we are fighting with the courts.
Eric emailed us, and Eric is exactly right.
It's exactly right.
And so the 1.6 million people that are scheduled for deportation, we need to get them all out immediately.
The ones that have already gone through all of the process.
The most important thing, though, is that the border itself is closed.
And separately, we also need to encourage self-deportation like Rosie O'Donnell.
Rosie O'Donnell is having fun in Ireland.
Play cut 298.
For joining us, as you know, some people entertain the idea of moving abroad after the 2024 election.
You actually did it.
Tell us about your experience so far, and do you have any regrets?
I have no regrets.
Not a day has gone by that I thought it was the wrong decision.
I was welcomed with open arms.
I knew after reading Project 2025 that if Trump got in, it was time for me and my non-binary child to leave the country.
And although I was not one of the celebrities who announced that that's what I would do, I made the decision within my family and my therapist, and should he win?
And then when he did, we made the plan into action.
If a child of Rosie O'Donnell is nonbinary, you can guarantee you that Rosie O'Donnell had something to do with that.
It's weird how nonbinary weirdos end up with nonbinary children so often.
If you're 18 and you're trans or nonbinary, you have a mental illness.
If you're 8 and you're trans or nonbinary, your mother has a mental illness.
But Rosie O'Donnell is gone.
She is self-deported.
Is she going to make Ireland great again?
By the way, good luck with her kid in Ireland with all the Muslims running amok.
See how her non-binary kid is going to do in downtown Dublin.
I mean, this whole thing feels like an SNL skit.
The ultimate arc of President Trump's political journey is the self-deportation of Rosie O'Donnell with her non-binary child after reading Project 2025.
Tell me that it isn't satire.
You see, everybody, the immigration question in front of us, all kidding aside, is a major one.
And we know that the unelected judiciary and unelected bureaucracy are going to do everything they possibly can to slow down the gears.
But self-deportation is a big one.
This is the one part of the Alien Enemies Act that I think that President Trump wanted to employ, which is you never know if you're going to be scooped up next.
That if you are here illegally, you should go back to your country of origin.
And I will say we finally have something in common with Rosie O'Donnell.
Rosie has no regrets leaving, and we have no regrets that she left.
We can finally agree with Rosie O'Donnell about something.
Finally. President Trump on self-deportation says, quote, we're going to give them a stipend.
We're going to give them some money and a plane ticket.
We're going to work with them.
If they're good, if we want to send them back in, we're going to work with them to get them back in as quickly as we can.
We need to work on people that are going to voluntarily leave the country because unfortunately the courts are going to try to grind down the entire deportation process.
And that is a threat to the democratic will of the American people.
President Trump ran on mass deportations and the courts are preventing those deportations from happening.
Is it time to defy the courts?
No, I don't think that's the case.
I think the Supreme Court needs to rule that there has to be an expedited process to be able to get people out of the country.
Email us, freedom at charliekirk.com.
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The whole arc has come full circle.
Play Cut 299.
One of the things people love about you is you speak your mind and you don't use a politician's filter.
However, that is not without its downsides, in particular when it comes to women.
You've called women you don't like fat pigs, dogs, slobs, and disgusting animals.
Your Twitter account.
Only Rosie O'Donnell.
Took him 10 years.
President Trump got her out of America.
The first step in making America great again.
He won, and she's in Ireland with her non-binary child.
