The Power of The Grassroots — Exclusive Interview with Matt Gaetz
Enjoy Charlie's in-depth AmFest interview with former Congressman Matt Gaetz, where he discusses Trump's cabinet, Pam Bondi, and his next moves after leaving Washington, before taking questions from the CK Exclusives subscriber audience. Join Charlie's interviews in-person at next year's AmFest by becoming a subscriber at members.charliekirk.com.Support the show: http://www.charliekirk.com/supportSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Buckle up, everybody.
Here we go.
Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.
Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus.
I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.
Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.
I want to thank Charlie.
He's an incredible guy.
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Matt, welcome.
I wish they were all members of the United States Senate.
I really, really do.
You would have sailed through confirmation.
I would be happy with the results of any election held at Turning Point.
Well said.
I could be elected Pope.
I'm a Baptist.
We talked about the Pope yesterday.
We're not doing that again.
So, Matt...
You had the pleasure of not being involved in this latest CR. You are now totally detached, so I just want to get your analysis and explain what happened this last week.
Something that's never happened before.
For eight years in Congress, I tried to break a system where there is rhythmically a December omnibus spending bill, usually thousands of pages, spending money we don't have, borrowing money from one country to go send it to another country as if somehow that makes us more powerful, and never Individually scrutinizing anything in the budget.
And if your elected member of Congress has concern over the efficacy of a program or the level of spending in an agency or the constitutional authority of one, and so I would dutifully vote against these things.
And time and again, I thought, what can we do to break that system?
Do we have to extract promises from a Speaker of the House?
Do we have to fire a Speaker of the House?
And yet again, rhythmically, this would occur over and over again.
And for the very first time, we beat them.
And the reason we beat them is because the full power of the lobby corps in Washington DC is not as strong as the movement led by President Trump, animated by Turning Point, encouraged by Elon Musk, and motivated by millions of patriotic Americans on X and throughout the country.
Now, Matt, before we celebrate too much, there was an attempt to do a 1,500-page boondoggle.
Sure.
So what was that?
Where did that come from?
Do you think that after the election, the entire lobby corps of Washington, D.C. just gave up?
Do you think that the swamp creature self-evicted?
Just because Trump was in or McCarthy was gone or whatever changed.
No, no, no, no.
They believe they are more resilient than that.
And they dig in and they burrow in.
And then in the last minute, you saw this 1,500-page bill emerge, as it always does.
And then you heard the same old line, oh, we have to vote for this for our troops and for our border patrol.
And then it had literally the funding of the very censorship industrial complex that we organize conferences like this to combat.
And so you...
Every single lobbyist firm in Washington wanted that bill to pass.
Every single one of them.
Because they all had something in it.
And you know what?
They will be back.
But the good news is, we've had the taste of victory in our mouths a little bit now, and I think we're hungry for more.
And we're going to stay on the case.
So Matt...
Speaking more broadly about how Congress operates, what were some of your big takeaways?
I mean, you resigned and you said it was like the greatest day of your life, right?
Besides marrying Ginger.
My beautiful wife Ginger's here.
Obviously marrying her was the best thing I ever did.
For her, I'm not so sure, but for me, definitely the best.
What was it about how Congress operates that was so disappointing for you and something that you want every American to internalize and know?
The game you are watching is not even the game that is being played.
Most of the members of Congress are merely actors that are reading scripts that are written, produced, and directed by others.
And if you read the scripts that they give you, if you hand your vote card to the leadership and your calendar to the lobby corps, then life's pretty good.
They're able to bring you data that says 97% of you get re-elected.
Those are pretty good odds.
Professionally, most people would want to be in the 97% and would follow the path that most did to achieve that status.
And all it costs you is your soul, and then it's cost us our birthright as Americans to live in the greatest country on earth.
And we are not extending that because we tolerate this system.
When they go down into Bay, Charlie, no one's even watching.
It's phony.
It is fake.
And the real work is being done by powerful special interests who fund the campaigns.
And when I was in Congress, I was the only Republican who refused every donation from the lobbyists and the political action committees, and more ought to take up that cause!
Now, that didn't win me any.
You remember when we were at Mar-a-Lago and Charlie, I'll tell you that a lot of people know this, but Charlie did so much to help me communicate with senators who I really had no relationship with.
A lot of the phone calls would be like, hello, Senator so-and-so.
What tweet was that that I sent?
Oh no, that was a staff member, and he was fired the next day.
But Charlie was working so hard for me, we were at Mar-a-Lago, we were around the pool, and this group of big tech lobbyists come up.
Oh, well Matt, it's so nice to see you.
And I could just see in their eyes when we met them that they were going to organize everything they could To oppose my confirmation.
And so when it became clear that there were calcified votes against me serving as Attorney General, it was not hard to trace those back to the very interest groups that I have been pushing back against and who I would have fairly and justly pursued if given the opportunity to do so.
So the big defense contractors didn't want me because I don't think we should spend hundreds of millions of dollars to build stuff that doesn't work while we haven't taken care of war fighters, 8,600 of them, that were unfairly driven out because of an unconstitutional vaccine mandate.
And big tech didn't want to see me there because I actually believe...
I'm a bit of a bull moose Republican.
I think there are times where market power can be used against the American people, and there is nothing virtuous about embracing this neo-libertarian theory that you ought to let big business crush people and make the terms of service on some tech platform more important than the values that undergird the Constitution of the United States of America.
And...
There were big pharma lobbyists who were real concerned that we were going to take an aggressive approach at some of the things they've been doing to keep America unhealthy and sick.
I am so encouraged that we finally have somebody to lead HHS that wants a healthcare policy to make America healthier.
What a novel concept!
All we've been talking about is who's going to pay for how sick we become, and then keeping you sick creates an economic pipeline and an economic incentive system for interest groups to continue to get paid.
So maybe their stock prices won't go up as much, but your life expectancy will go up, the life expectancy of your family members, and I think that is the role of government.
We don't live in a place with no rules.
There is order, there is national interest, and we are going to pursue that interest without apology.
Love that.
So Matt, before we open it up for questions, from Donald Trump saying, I want Matt Gaetz to be Attorney General, to going through that process, what did you learn?
Walk us through that whole process.
Well, I learned that there are a lot of Republicans in the United States Senate who may articulate tacit support for Trump.
They may even take a photo in the red hat.
But at the end of the day, they don't want Trump to succeed because they want to revert the Republican Party to the old ways where we were for endless immigration and forever wars And any trade deal, even if it hollowed out the middle class in this country, that's not this party anymore.
Donald Trump has shown us how to win by being a multi-generational, multi-racial party who are unapologetically patriotic, who are faithful, and who believe that there is a responsible role for government and that currently government has far exceeded that constitutional architecture.
And so there are folks who I think, you know, needled me or were challenging for me because they thought, if we let this guy in there, It really reinforces this whole Donald Trump, J.D. Vance, Matt Gaetz, Tucker Carlson, Charlie Kirk wing of the Republican Party.
But we're not a wing anymore.
We're the whole damn body.
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So Matt, talk about the power of the grassroots.
And there are some senators that are still giving Donald Trump's nominees a hard time.
We have pledged at Turning Point Action and Turning Point PAC, if you get in the way of President Trump's agenda, we will primary you and remove you from office.
Will that help send a message?
Yeah, I mean, everybody acts like we're the ones that are against democracy.
Well, guess what?
This is what democracy looks like.
The people holding their elected leaders to account when those leaders start deviating from your interests.
Like, you know, the people in Mississippi aren't for sending billions more to Ukraine, but yet they have a senator who votes that way.
And elsewhere in the country, people have gotten Potomac fever.
They go to Washington, and it's like a city surrounded on all sides by reality, And they are infected irrevocably.
And, you know, sometimes you got to dip them back into a little dose of reality and having strong primary contests is important.
Now we won't win all of them.
Look, the establishment is established for a reason.
They're good at it.
They have very talented operatives.
They have very exquisite data.
They know the skills of deception on how to get to the type of voters who might not come to conferences like this.
So let us not act as though they are a defeated force.
But you know what?
We get a few of them.
And we send a message to a few more that that 97% is not something they should rely on, that they will be held to account, and you get a few of them in the right type of contest, and you defeat a few of them, I think it will have a very positive impact on the entire body.
So Matt, learning from prior Congresses, what mistakes happened previously that Donald Trump has to try to avoid coming into this 2025 legislative session?
You know, it's a great question.
I think that you have to start with what is your core mandate right now.
And if you deviate too far off the core mandate early, we found it was hard to get back to it.
You know, here the core mandate is to save this economy, to secure this border, and to create peace and prosperity in the world with strong leadership where we don't see all this conflict erupting everywhere.
And if we do those basic things well, I think that will invite people in.
I think that sometimes there are issues before us that function as a shiny lure, and I think that if we chase after every shiny lure and get off of that core mission of Of peace abroad, prosperity at home, security of the border, then we run a greater risk of the midterms going a different direction.
Daisy, let's start to do some questions here.
Matt, tell us about your plans.
What are you doing now that you're not in Congress?
I'm speaking at 9.30 tomorrow morning.
Well, hold on, you laughed.
That's right before the president, so that's a good slot.
That's a good slot.
You always take very good care of me.
No, I mean, oh, you think I'm throwing Matt on the 9.30 Sunday.
Usually you'd think that's a throwaway.
No, no, no, no.
That'll be the most packed the room has ever been.
Yeah, I got a lot on my chest I still want to share.
So I hope you'll come and listen to it.
There'll be some new jokes.
It'll be some of the same jokes, but you laughed at them.
But look, I think that I was elected when I was 26 years old to the state legislature, and I'm 42 right now.
And so...
There is an important part of someone's life where you need to live under the laws that you have helped write.
And if you do this for 20 years or 30 years in elective service, even someone who I think, you know, I do everything I can to stay connected to my voters and my bosses, but it's just not something you're supposed to do forever in life.
You know, I got the itch to go and be a part of reforming the corrupt institution at the Department of Justice.
And I'm excited for Pam Bondi.
I'm going to be an advisor and an encourager of hers all the way in her mission.
And I'll be ready when God or President Trump or Charlie Kirk call with the next mission.
Oh, we'll be calling.
All right.
Yes, sir.
Howdy.
My name is Owen Shelley.
I'm from the great state of Texas.
My question is, there's a lot of races, especially in my home state, where it's a pretty close race, especially for House congressional seats.
Is it worth it with these incumbent Republicans that have been in there for 20 years or so that are kind of more rhinos than conservative Republicans, getting them out of office and trying to put someone else in when it also comes with the possibility of losing the race?
Yes.
That's a smart question.
Yeah, it's a really smart question.
And Texas is one of the states where MAGA is overtaking what was a very strong establishment.
That establishment in Texas goes back to the bushes.
It's very ingrained.
It's very well financed.
And so it took a lot of MAGA energy to get some of the victories we have.
You have an outstanding attorney general in Texas, Ken Paxton.
He might primary Cornyn.
He might.
He might.
There are a few.
Ronnie Jackson's another good member and excited for him.
Jody Arrington's the budget chairman and really actually believes we should have a budget, which is nice for the budget chairman to believe in.
But I do think it's important and here's why.
That 97% number doesn't fully account for the retirements that you get when it starts to look like someone's in jeopardy.
You got a few of them in Texas where, I mean, if they haven't already seen the light, they can see it flickering, okay?
And if you get energetic candidates with strong capabilities and a compelling message, some of those folks might find something else to do in their waning moments.
I think I see a Gig'em shirt, so I'll say Gig'em.
Are my eyes deceiving me?
I'm right.
Howdy.
Yep.
What's next?
Thanks for taking Jimbo Fisher off our hands.
Yeah, exactly.
Where am I at, Daisy?
If you want Mike Nervell, we can work something out.
He'll soon be available.
Daisy, where are we?
Hi, Charlie Kirk.
I'm Sophia.
I'm 16 years old.
And I've been involved in politics for this whole election.
I did my best to get Trump elected.
But I do have...
So the one question I have for you is that...
So my friend Quinn, he's also been involved, and he wants to know if Trump will be inaugurated even when California has a state of emergency that is threatening to keep the current president to remain in office.
So if there's going to be a chance to stop that and make sure that Trump gets in office.
Sophia, if that's an issue, we're going to call you to resolve the entire matter.
So I'm going to need to make yourself available.
But no, the national emergency in that case is not going to stop the transfer of power.
You did enough.
We all did enough.
You don't have to worry about that.
Start worrying about the midterms right now, Sophia.
But you don't have to worry about this last election.
You got that W already secured.
And congratulations on it.
Thank you.
And thank you for being involved.
Hi, my name is Fred Theroux and I'm 73 years old and I voted for Reagan twice.
But one of the things that I've noticed is we the people, why are we allowing non-people like corporations and unions and PACs to give money to influence the election when we the people are the ones that should be getting the votes and financing the Yeah, I would love if you replaced me in Congress.
That's exactly my view of the subject.
And a lot of groups have to do it because it is what is required by the federal campaign finance laws.
But the core philosophy of that infrastructure is really just money laundering.
It's getting money that otherwise wouldn't be appropriate for elections into the electioneering sphere.
And everybody knows it, and both sides participate in it.
And the question I want you to ask yourself is...
Would you be willing to cross the aisle and work with Democrats who you might otherwise really, really have negative views of to accomplish those objectives?
Because I have been willing.
I've worked with AOC and Ro Khanna and Ilhan Omar because while they disagree with me on a wide scope of issues, they actually agree that you shouldn't have this money in politics.
Now, they tend to hold that view because they think they can beat us at that game.
But I think if this is truly a contest of ideas and who can ignite the actual people of this country to engage politically, we'll win every time.
We'll smoke them.
And so I'd rather join in concert To ultimately get rid of the entities that are often in control no matter which side wins elections.
That's what's so frustrating to me when the power changes and it feels like the agenda doesn't even change because both sides are working for the same special interests.
The only way we break that is to totally change our campaign finance system and I will work with anyone to do it.
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You guys, thank you so much for everything you're doing for our country.
We love you.
I am from California.
I live in Dana Point.
I go to a church called Calvary Chapel South O.C., and Pastor John Randall always says thank you.
John Randall is one of the best in California.
You go to a great church.
And he says, thank you for not leaving California.
Jack Hibb says it, too.
It's getting harder and harder.
My question is, is there any hope for us?
You all are just...
It's like a blur.
California, save us.
Is there any hope for California?
Well, didn't you see how the trajectory moved this last election?
Were you watching that, Charlie?
Are you a California resident now?
I'm a Florida man.
I will live and die as a Florida man.
No other identity I will hold.
Okay.
Just checking.
But did you watch that?
Everything moved to the right.
Everything did.
I wonder when the people of California will kind of wake up to this.
Because how do you go from the most temperate climate in the hemisphere, boundless natural resources, some of the most intelligent, creative class people in the world assembling there, And then you let it all become like a homeless encampment where you treat the homeless the way we treat a bald eagle's nest.
Like in Florida, you can't get too close to the bald eagle's nest, can't make any loud noises around it, can't really disrupt it.
But like if the hobos just set up on the street corner, we would turn on the irrigation until they left.
But in California...
You do it the other way.
And so you've got to fix that.
There's not going to be the investment and the hope and the energy that you see in the rising places in our country and throughout the world if you have surrendered to the people that are urinating in the mailboxes.
Those people can't win.
We have to beat those people, I think.
What do you think, Charlie?
Matt Gaetz is really special, everybody.
He's a special talent.
Could you imagine him as Attorney General with the one-liners like that?
For the record, I did more than most to try to make that happen.
Charlie was like my Sherpa, my communications director, my nightly therapist.
I went all in.
There was the one time that Charlie did not allow me to get my protein shake on the way to Mar-a-Lago because Charlie's like, We have to go because Elon is there.
We cannot miss our moment with Elon.
And Erica are like, but we really want a protein shake.
Charlie, we ultimately acquiesced and then Elon became an even bigger sponsor and supporter of Turning Point.
So pretty good job, Charlie.
What do we have next?
Daisy, where are we at?
Oh, thank you.
So I have two questions really quick.
One for Matt Gaetz, one for Charlie Kirk.
Matt Gaetz first.
What are the top three things you expect to get done between 2025 after the new Congress has settled in in midterms?
Top three things.
Well, the first will be the reconciliation bill.
And when I start talking about the federal budget logistics, people's eyes start to glaze over.
Explain what reconciliation is.
Yes, this is almost anything.
A Mother's Day resolution in the United States Senate now requires 60 votes.
But there's a special provision of the budgeting rules that say if you're making budget policy and reconciling the budget, you only need the simple majority.
So a lot of the things that we want to do, we're trying to shoehorn into the budget reconciliation process so that the threshold is 50 votes plus J.D. Vance not having to go convince a bunch of Democrats that the largest deportation and cutting $2 trillion out of the bureaucracy is a good idea.
I don't know that they'll go along with that.
And so that reconciliation process begins immediately in January.
Folks have got to be on the ball, and if we get that successfully achieved, we'll get the tax cuts extended, we'll get some of our important immigration priorities funded, and we will really cut away at some of these agencies that do not have a constitutional basis.
When people ask How are you going to cut the budget?
You just have to use the Constitution and you gotta start cleaving away the things that are not in the Constitution have to go to the states.
And sometimes the states will succeed and sometimes they'll fail.
But that is the system in this country.
And then we hope that people have enough sense to see what best practices are working and then to copy those through the decisions of the states and the people.
That has been the path to prosperity, and it's only when we've surrendered to the behemoth bureaucracy and the omnibus spending bills and the continuing resolutions that we've seen our nation decline.
That's great.
Fantastic answer.
Thank you so much.
I actually came here from New Hampshire.
My dad had a heart attack on Friday.
That's why I was not here for most of the day.
He's doing better.
Thank you so much.
I personally would love to get an opportunity to be on your podcast, Charlie, and talk about abortion and how we can actually defeat it Because it's destroying this country.
It's destroying marriages.
It's destroying future children.
It's destroying how we actually are going to be a righteous people and under God and under faith and not be opposed by God.
I'd love to do that.
I'd love to get a time to do that.
I think you just were, sir.
You are on my podcast.
I think that was a self-actualizing moment for you.
You are on the podcast.
And I will tell you, being a member, once a week, you guys can call in and you are on the show.
You're live on hundreds of radio stations, millions of people online, and also post as a podcast.
That is one of the perks of being a member.
Sometimes in my sleep, I hear freedom at charliekirk.
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It works.
The repetition.
You guys know how to email me.
I love that.
Thank you.
My name's Paul Kitzke.
I'm from Eastern Washington.
This question is our current congressman.
I think Congressman Gate knows.
Dan Newhouse was re-elected.
You can boo this one.
What state?
Washington State.
Notice the people from Washington.
They want you to know if they're from East Washington.
Yes, absolutely.
That was his way of saying, we didn't have the Chaz in East Washington.
But my question is, the candidate that ran against him was endorsed by Donald J. Trump the week before it happened.
I want people to know this.
Speaker Johnson and Steve Scalise came in for private fundraisers for Dan Newhouse.
How do we...
And I'm an LD chair.
Constantly, I've been challenging Congressman Newhouse because of his policies.
Nothing's changed.
How do we do that when you have leadership that's going against the Donald Trump...
Well, the way the Republican conference works is the Speaker has a constituency of 222 members, and the Speaker is there to serve that constituency.
And when there's a weak one in the herd, as Mr. Newhouse was politically for a time because of that impeachment vote, a bunch of the other ones that one day think they might be the weak one in the herd are only going to follow the one that's the strong one that protects the weakest in the herd.
Right?
Does that make sense to you?
And so you may not like that, but that's the incentive structure where the way the speaker stays the speaker is to always make sure that the weakest in the herd are protected.
We had Tony Gonzalez on the run in Texas.
We had a great candidate, Brandon Herrera, running against him.
Herrera raised a million dollars, which is pretty good to do against an incumbent, and Speaker Johnson and others raised over $10 million for Tony Gonzalez, and Mr. Herrera lost that race by under 400 votes.
And so there are times when the resource advantage that the establishment has becomes their cudgel against us, and that's why stuff like Turning Point, getting interconnected, You know, having Elon involved in resourcing more efforts like this, that's what's going to build us into a more comparable fighting force.
And maybe we'll never have them one to one on the dollar spent on some of these key campaigns.
But I think on some, if we only get outspent maybe one and a half to one or two to one or two and a half to one, you're going to start to see those outcomes change.
Hey everybody, Charlie Kirk here.
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balanceofnature.com promo code CHARLIE balanceofnature.com promo code CHARLIE Hey, Mr. Gates.
I'm Mr. Kirk.
I'm really big fans.
My name's Caleb.
I'm 17 from upstate New York.
And I lean very Austro-libertarian.
My question would be on big business.
Is big business what's hurting Americans or is it big government support of big business and the force of government allowing business to hurt Americans?
I think that we have seen the greatest fusion of big business and government at any other time in our nation's history.
And the way business is able to get government to wrap itself around a particular business model.
We saw this in big tech where they built in all these immunities Right?
That we're supposed to protect a free marketplace of ideas.
And now that became the function of the censorship that so many of us have endured.
And so I shared on Timcast last night, I think the biggest threat to your liberty is big government.
The second biggest threat to your liberty is big business.
And the third, homeowners associations.
And...
Some know.
Actually, Al Qaeda started as a homeowner's association.
It's both.
It's a fusion of both.
I mean, I've read all the Austrian economics literature.
It's fine.
It's just wrong about a lot.
But, I mean, look, the idea is this, is that there's a lot of corporations that hate us and there's parts of government that hate us.
I'll give you one example that has nothing to do with the government.
BlackRock should not be allowed to buy single-family homes and make our young people have to compete against them.
I'm not picking on you, I'm just saying the Austrian economics say, oh free market, I'm sorry that's insane, that our young people have to compete against a 10 trillion dollar company to be able to buy a home.
Another idea is that the Chinese Communist Party should not be able to own farmland in this country.
Period.
And they say, oh, free market.
Nope, that's where I draw the line.
Our enemies should not be able to own farmland next to military bases and be able to use it against us.
So, look, we love free markets because markets serve people.
When markets fail to serve people, then we should be prudent about how we intervene.
And look, we're a country that has an economy in it, not an economy that happens to be in a country.
And I think that's an important distinction.
But look, I've read all this stuff.
I've read Mises, Rothbard, Hayek, Henry Hazlitt.
It's good stuff.
It's really interesting philosophical doctrine.
And then you have to ask yourselves, am I just going to live in an abstraction or do I actually want to live in a nation?
Thank you.
Next question.
Hello, guys.
Zach Kern over here from Kansas City.
As a segue and follow-up to that, you mentioned in the other room that it's not a constitutional right to housing, and you should keep the private equity out of it.
So then what would be your proposal to solve the millions of affordable housing shortage crisis that we have in America?
Better zoning laws.
Yeah, better zoning laws.
But also, I mean, I can go first.
Yeah, please.
First thing is that it's a supply and demand issue.
When you have 12 million people come into the country, they need to live somewhere.
And so maybe if we deport 12 million people, all of a sudden the demand for housing will go down.
And when the demand for housing goes down, definitionally the supply.
I mean, when you artificially allow 12 million people into the market, they have to live somewhere.
And then we subsidized the housing for a lot of these illegals, which is insane.
Then also, just everything has been more expensive because we decided to artificially create about $8 trillion of unnecessary federal spending post-COVID, and that money has to go somewhere, and that money has gone into hardware.
Everything is more expensive.
It's more expensive to be able to ship your windows to a new home.
It's more expensive to buy a hammer, to buy nails for labor.
And so hyperinflation is a direct corollary to the rising price of housing.
Matt?
Yeah, I would agree.
We were able to create more opportunity in housing in Florida by decentralizing some of the authorities.
where we had a state entity that had to approve every subdivision, and we abolished that state entity, and we were able to get more shovel-ready projects underway.
At the end of the day, it can't cost as much as it does to build a house and to secure land, and if it does, that price will be unattainable for many Americans, particularly Gen Z.
Next question.
Thank you.
Matt, Charlie, Tim Miller from Chicago.
First one for Matt, second one is really more Charlie, I think.
What is it, these lobbyists, what are they doing on a daily basis, like a day in the life of a lobbyist specifically, you know, in a brief way?
And then Charlie, can we replace them with the people?
Like just get, let's just grow this thing to the point where we could just get the people over there in their faces all the time.
Now you're thinking.
What the lobbyists do, like a lobbyist would wake up and then go to a breakfast where they would hand members of Congress, you know, $1,000, $2,000, up to $5,000 for their campaign.
And right as they're delivering the money, they make a specific ask.
Congressman, we really need you to sign on to this amendment.
We really need this bill filed.
And they go around and do it.
And it was just...
For me, when I first got there, before I swore off the money, it was hilarious, because we'd be like, we are Lockheed Martin, and we'd like you to support this weapon system.
And the next group would be like, we're the Cannabis Association of America.
And I just brought together the weirdest of people.
But...
So that's what they'll do in the morning, and then they work the halls throughout the day with staff members who hope to one day become lobbyists, saying, you know, we were there for the breakfast fundraiser, and your member really said they'd sign on to this letter for us or institute this amendment, and then they would extract those demands.
The other thing that lobbying firms have figured out is you don't even need to use the campaign finance system if you hire people's otherwise unemployable family members.
The number of spouses and children of members of Congress who become lobbyists is astonishing.
Senator Richard Burr, a former senator from North Carolina, his wife and son both became lobbyists.
And he was the chairman of the Intelligence Committee.
So how would you feel if your interests were adverse to the people who were paying the chairman of the Intelligence Committee's wife and kid?
Do you think that they had special persuasion skills, or was it their familial relationship that they were monetizing?
As far as how we replace it, that's where Turning Point comes in, hopefully long term, and we're getting there, where we need to demand that more members of Congress, and very few do, do what Matt did.
No PACs.
We're not going to take any money from PACs, special interests of corporations.
Very, very few members do what Matt did, because it's hard to finance.
It's hard to finance your campaign if you don't go for the easy money.
But yes, there needs to be a long-term accountability project in charge of the Republican Party.
And that's always been my whole thing.
It's not just about winning majorities.
It's about keeping majorities accountable to actually do the things they said they were going to do when they campaigned.
It's not enough to say, oh, we're going to cut spending.
Did you actually cut spending?
Did you actually build the border wall?
And the most naked example of this, and frustrating, is the money in Ukraine.
No one here wants more money to send to Ukraine.
Not a single Republican primary voter wants more money sent to Ukraine.
It's an indefensible position.
And yet every single one of you wants a secure border.
And yet they don't care.
Because that's not where the money is.
Well, we could.
We could take money and we could start a pack.
That was my model, sir.
I had 200,000 people around this country who'd give me $5, $10, $25, and they didn't need anything from me other than for me to go be me.
You're talking about a $2 billion a year project.
Yeah, you're not going to beat...
But guess what?
Guess what?
We just beat them all.
This last week, they wanted that 1,500-page bill, and they lost.
So now you've got to start wondering, what are they going to do next?
Last question, Daisy.
Hi, my name is Michelle Cortez.
I'm from McAllen, Texas, so right there on the border, literally seven miles away.
And I would like to run for Congress in District 34 to take this seat away from Vicente Gonzalez, who, I don't know how many of you know, has actually been Nancy Pelosi's attorney for many years, and he has done nothing for our district.
But I do not want to fall into the trap of lobbyists.
How would you recommend, or is there any advice that you can give me, staying true to the party and accountable to my constituents, assuming that I win?
Here's the advice I would give to anyone considering running for office.
You have to have a path to victory.
You have to see where are my skills going to be deployed with the right partnerships and the right team members to achieve victory.
Because if candidates run and come in, Fifth out of seven, they've done less for our movement.
It's better to find a place where you can run and win.
I didn't start by running for Congress.
I cut my teeth in the state legislature.
I'm a better congressman because I had other experience before serving in that role.
What I've also found is you have to show people you're willing to fight for them.
I think at the end of the day, when people go into the voting booth, they're not voting for the one that's the most attractive.
Sometimes they're not voting for the one that sent the most flyers.
I think most people go in and say, if my tail's on the line, which one of these people will actually care about me and try to do something for me?
And the best way to do that is to showcase it, and you don't have to be elected.
Before I was elected to anything, my local county tried to institute a pet tax.
And so I got together all the pet owners, very eclectic group of people, and we went in and we prevailed on the local leaders to repeal the pet tax.
And then people were like, oh, well, when a position in the state house came up and people thought, well, that guy actually cared enough to stop me from paying the pet tax, maybe he'd be a good lawmaker for us.
So find a fight where people need a champion and do what you can to lead and showcase those capabilities.
