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Sept. 11, 2024 - The Charlie Kirk Show
33:03
The Debate Aftermath: Who Won?
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Hey everybody, Andrew Colvin in for Charlie Kirk.
We have all the breakdown from last night's debate that you're going to want to hear.
We are joined by Alex Marlowe, editor-in-chief of Breitbart News, one of the most astute political observers in the country, and also Bhatia Ungar Sargon from Newsweek and also author of Second Class, We talk about their general perceptions, how that mirrors mine, what we're seeing from the focus groups, what we're seeing in the post-debate polling, and we talk about Trump's best moments, what independents are doing.
We break it all down right here.
You're not going to want to miss it.
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Buckle up, here we go.
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What an incredible evening followed by an incredible aftermath.
I have so many thoughts.
I have so much to digest now that we have some space between the actual debate, seeing how people are reacting, seeing how independents are reacting.
There's so much to dive into it.
And obviously we are on the 23rd anniversary of 9-11.
Suffice to say, we will never forget that day.
We'll never forget what we lost in this country.
As a result, bad leaders, bad policies, curtailment of our American God-given rights and freedoms.
And we're working every day to restore that country that came together in unity after that terrible day.
And so we'll leave it at that.
But we remember 9-11 today and all those that died and their family members that had their entire lives ripped apart as a result.
So we need to start there.
Going to bring in the one and only Alex Marlow, editor-in-chief of Breitbart News, one of the most astute political observers in the entire country.
Alex, honored to be with you as always.
Also author of Breaking Biden, which ended up being a bit of a prophetic title, if we will.
Alex, I want to get your top line thoughts.
Let's start there.
Top line thoughts.
What was your reaction immediately after?
What's your reaction today?
Andrew, first of all, thank you for having me on.
I always appreciate you and Charlie including me anyway, but I feel like the bigger the occasion, the more likely I am to get an invite, and that always means a lot to me.
I thought overall, I thought there was, and I'm being not literally here figurative, I thought there was a chance Trump was going to put Kamala Harris in a body bag last night, and that didn't happen.
I thought there's a chance for that.
And so that's why I think there was a little bit of disappointment.
That's figurative.
I want her to live forever and ever and ever and ever.
I hope she lives to a million years.
I'm just saying it's an expression.
That didn't happen.
So there was a little bit of disappointment from people when that became clear that that wasn't going to happen.
But other than that, I don't think that Kamala Harris actually performed all that well.
She refused to give answers.
The first answer of the night was so telling, such an important question, are we better off than we were four years ago?
She couldn't even say the answers clearly yes on that.
She has to say yes.
Who coached her?
Plouffe?
Is that on you?
She has to say yes, even if she's lying.
She couldn't do that.
I thought all of her lies were pretty flat.
She came in with all these canned rehearsed answers.
Again, that's a David Plouffe special.
You knew those were going to be there.
They came off very cold to me.
Smug.
And what Matt Boyle, our Washington bureau chief, talks about at Breitbart is the demographic he's got his eye on more than any other are men.
And if you want to drill down on that, white men, working class men, middle class men, and then minority men, all of them.
I don't know of anyone in any of those subsets.
are watching what she did where she wouldn't answer a question.
She's dodging on a late-term abortion.
She's dodging on the Ukraine war.
She's spinning all these odd talking points.
She's dodging on gun confiscation.
She's dodging on so many of the key parts, inflation of the Biden-Harris agenda.
How are men watching that and then watching her get bailed out by two moderators By the establishment media, by ABC, Disney, who's watching that and think, yeah, I'll vote for her now.
Yeah, now I'm on her side.
I just don't think those people are out there.
So would I've liked to have seen Trump close the deal?
Yeah, of course.
But overall, I don't see how she goes up in the polls, to be honest.
Yeah.
So this, this to me, I think that's completely spot on.
I think keeping an eye on men, I've seen some polling recently, Alex, which shows that Trump is winning men by more than he's losing women, which is a huge, huge, Data point to watch in this election.
But I think last night was so much style versus substance, style versus substance.
I'm, I'm happy to admit and concede that Kamala probably won it on style.
She was a little bit more polished.
She was more rehearsed.
She had the one liners, the zingers, but people are kind of numb to that actually.
And what they, what they were looking for is, is basically, are you going to be a change candidate because people are unhappy right now.
And I think what Trump did is he hammered home, albeit sometimes bluntly, sometimes without
as much precision that maybe some of us would have wanted that live and breathe this stuff every
day. But if you are a normal, independent, kind of middle of the road person that just
understands, I don't know my neighbors anymore. Who are these people that don't speak English? Why
are they in line at the DMV? Why are grocery bills so expensive? If you're just that person,
Trump hammered and hammered and hammered away. And yeah, maybe he didn't say it as crisply
as some of us would like, but the message got through. And at the end of the day,
Voters trust that Trump is going to be better on immigration.
He's going to be better on the economy than Kamala Harris.
And so all of this other, this superfluous stuff seemed to fall away.
It was less important.
It didn't really matter because we know Trump.
We know what he's about.
All of this is baked into the cake already.
But with Kamala, there was a question.
Are you going to change anything?
Are you going to be different?
Or are you going to be more Biden, just more radical?
And I think she completely failed on that.
And to your point, she should have said, yes, look what we've accomplished.
Yes, things are better.
But she couldn't because she knows it's not true.
Alex.
Amen, it's exactly right.
Look, of course, when Trump calls her a Marxist, which I dug, and points out her father was a Marxist professor, which I dug, I wish he would have also added, she wants price control, which is literal Marxism, and it doesn't work.
It's economically illiterate.
She's economically illiterate.
I wish he could have, you know, hammered it home a little bit.
But overall, she did not bring, I thought, anything in terms of substance that distanced her.
Kamala Harris, From the Biden-Harris administration.
And that was her biggest job.
It wasn't to get under Trump's skin.
Getting under Trump's skin was one of her goals.
She did that.
I wish she hadn't, but she did.
That worked for her.
Getting off all those canned lines, that was a goal.
So she looked like she at least had some sense of leadership and charisma.
She did that.
I don't think it was effective, but she did that.
But her main goal was to somehow position herself as the change candidate.
I don't see anything she did, not a single answer, where she did that.
I completely agree.
I actually, you know, it's funny because there is this piece of this debate where we can all sort of look at it and be like, eh, she won on style points, she was a little bit more exact, she, you know, this and that.
It is Not resonating at all.
If you look at the panels, the focus groups, um, let's go to, this is a, uh, an image from, uh, Reuters.
Let's put this up on the, on the screen right now, the Reuters, but this, this is a really telling pool.
So they had 10 voters undecided Reuters interviewed them six and this after the debate, six out of the 10 are now going to vote for Trump or leaning Trump three for Kamala one remains undecided.
So say that again.
Six are now going to vote for Trump or leaning Trump, three for Kamala, one undecided.
That is remarkable.
And we're going to go through some of this tape with you, Alex, of undecided voter after undecided voter, just in these focus groups run by the Net.
As a matter of fact, let's go ahead and play one from CNN here, Alex, and I'll have you react on the other side.
104.
Heard that we're abandoning or we're withdrawing from Afghanistan.
And the way it was happening, I had my Kennedy moment.
It was very similar to when we decided to invade Iraq back under President Bush.
And when I saw that we were leaving that amount of high-tech equipment in the hands of our enemy, and later that day or later that week, I saw on the news were them celebrating with our guns in their hands.
I realized what a travesty that was.
A, in the loss of money that we abandoned when we left, plus the very bullets that we left there that they were shooting at us as we flew away in the planes.
You see how there's such a visceral reaction that people have to so many things that we've lived through in the last four years.
Alex, your reaction?
Yeah, perfect.
She said that she basically blamed Donald Trump for the Afghanistan withdrawal.
There's no one in the world who's going to buy that.
And that CNN focus group is gold.
We've been playing clips all morning in the Breitbart newsroom.
So many people saying the bottom line is, My life was better under Trump.
Their data suggests that people were shifting towards Trump.
So all that's going to come out in the next few days.
I'm not saying he gets an A+.
I'm just saying that's the reality.
She didn't convince anyone.
Charlie Kirk here.
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What did you see that brought you to a conclusion?
I think it's important to remember that we are voting for the leader of our country and not who we like the most or who we want in our wedding party, but who is actually going to make our country better.
And we're in an incredibly unique situation where we've had both of the candidates in office before and we've gotten to see what they would do.
And when facts come to facts, my life was better when Trump was in office.
The economy was higher, inflation was lower.
Things were better overall, and now with Kamala's administration, things haven't been so fantastic.
And she's saying she can fix the problems that her administration has caused, but I just don't know if I can afford to take that risk.
That clip is so gold, I want to frame it somehow.
We're back with Alex Marlowe, editor-in-chief of Breitbart News, one of the most astute political observers in the country.
Alex, Help us make sense.
The media tells us Trump lost, he got demolished, the talking heads say this, and then these panels, these focus groups, we get a much different picture.
What's going on here?
Yeah, I think that clip, by the way, Andrew, was literally what was on my screen when you played it, because I mean, how could you get enough of it?
It's exactly right.
And I'll tell you, if there is another debate, I don't think there will be, but if I'm wrong about this, and I've been wrong before, that Trump is going to have an opportunity To really emphasize some of this stuff, if it comes up, if they try to bring up his crowd sizes again, or she tries to do these little tricks to try to get under his skin again, he can say that, look, I'm not going to talk about that.
What I'm going to talk about is how gas prices are whatever it is, 2x whatever they were when Kamala Harris took office and when he left office.
And why are eggs prices what they are, and bread, etc.
And run down the list, say, I'm talking about that today.
I'm talking about how you guys bought the Afghanistan pullout.
I'm talking about how Putin invaded Ukraine because of you guys.
And I'm not talking about crowdsizing.
And if he does that, then he's going to bring a lot more people in, and he might get another shot to do that.
But your question, I'll let the New York Times answer it.
Pundits said Harris won the debate.
Undecided voters weren't so sure.
That's it.
Twitter is not real life most days of the week.
People online who are giddy and jubilant about this debate for Harris, they are not the people who are the ones who are having a much harder time balancing their checkbooks under the Harris-Biden administration than they were under Donald Trump.
And that is a big, big elephant in the room here.
What do you think about the analysis, you know, we're going to have Rich Barris on, but he tweeted out basically that, you know, the elephant in the room here is that Harris just wasn't that likable.
How big of a factor is it, do you think?
I mean, prosecutors are performance artists, right?
That is probably her strongest suit, right?
You don't look at her and think you see somebody formidable with a lot of substance and a moral core, but she's able to sort of act the part when she needs to.
Rich doesn't think she's very likable.
How much is that playing into this with kind of the squishy middle?
People are actually persuadable.
Yeah, I love this point, and it's something that I'll tell you, Andrea, it's important to see what your favorite commentators are doing, but always take your friend's temperature on this.
Take your family member's temperature, and I'll tell you what I'm getting texted from people who do not work in this industry today.
It is that Kamala Harris was not likable, particularly for men, but also women, too, saying she was not likable, and others who are pissed off at Taylor Swift for dividing their household.
Because they've got a daughter who likes Taylor Swift, and they're diehard Trumpers, and they don't want to have to have an uncomfortable conversation because a singer wants to endorse someone because she's being pressured by Variety magazine to do that.
That's what I'm getting my email traffic on right now.
We don't like Harris, and why is Taylor Swift putting me in this horrible position?
You know, on that Taylor Swift note, you know, we have some Swifties on our team.
Emma and Daisy, you know, they keep us in the loop on all of this stuff.
Their take on the Taylor Swift endorsement was that it was actually even think to bring it up. It's gonna get lost and buried.
She also said do your own research. She didn't say hey you need to need to build
Kamala and you know I think my take on it is she realized she became the story
and she became very polarizing when she was too loud on this topic and so she
wanted to do something a little bit more...
under the radar, a little something that would would go away in a couple days. And I just don't
think she liked it because she knows she does have I would say 40% of her fan base is probably
conservative voting for Trump. And she was also pictured with Brittany Mahomes, which was a big
question mark. Oh, yeah, a lot of the pop observers, she chose to still be associated with
her. So it could have been a lot worse. Yeah, how many families just put up $3,600 to go see
the Eros tour. And now they have to have this conversation about Taylor Swift's polarizing and
and stupid political takes.
It's just, yes, they put it at a specific time to minimize the damage it's going to do to her career and try to at least get on record because she has to.
She's a Democrat operative at heart.
She has to get on record that she likes Harris.
They did it to minimize.
But I'm in this camp where I think we blow it up.
I think we point out that she's just like the rest of them.
She's not that special and these ideas.
Interesting.
Alex Marlow, editor-in-chief of Breitbart, author of Breaking Biden, a prophetic book.
Definitely still worth checking out.
Alex, thank you so much for your time and all the work you do over at Breitbart.
We'll have you on again soon.
All right, we are joined by Bhatia Ungar-Sargon.
She's one of the opinion editors at Newsweek.
She's also the author of Second Class, a tremendous book.
Bhatia, welcome to The Charlie Kirk Show.
Thanks for making the you on because you are sort of, I think, one of those
voters and one of those thinkers that this debate was really all about.
It was about people that have an open mind, that are willing to hear both sides out and
kind of make an informed decision after that.
You're also a woman, which is another key sort of the gender lines in this election
are very stark.
So tell us what was your impression of last night, high level, and we'll drill down from
there.
Thank you so much for having me.
It's so great to be here.
It's always really an honor and a privilege to be invited onto this show.
I'm such a huge fan of Charlie's and I love those videos that he does with those college students.
I can't get enough of them.
So I'm honored to be here in the absence while he's working on one of those.
Okay, so here's my sort of my take on the debate.
I think Kamala Harris was the clear winner and Donald Trump the clear loser.
However, I think the things that made Harris win last night are the things that would make her a worse president.
And the things that made Donald Trump lose the debate last night are the things that would actually make him a better president.
And the things indeed that made him such a great president Between 2016 and 2020.
And what I mean by that is this was a debate put on by and for the elites.
The questions, the moderation, being so clearly biased, the setup, everything about it, the topics covered, and the way it was being judged based on aesthetics and demeanor and all of these things.
This was for the elites.
There was nothing really that was covered That the 60% of Americans who are struggling and wondering if they're going to be able to pay their bills next month could really hang their hat on and say, here is how what's coming out of this person's mouth is going to end up as money in my bank account.
So what happened?
What happened was Kamala Harris was very good at playing the elite game that was set up
for them.
And Donald Trump was very bad at it.
And the reason for that is because Kamala Harris is very good at being a good little
soldier for the elites in the Democratic Party.
And Donald Trump is very bad at being a good soldier for the elites in the Republican Party,
which is what made him such an astonishingly good president.
Do you think that the elites in the Republican Party like No More Wars?
Do you think the elites in the Republican Party like controls on immigration?
Do you think the elites in the Republican Party like tariffs?
They don't like any of that stuff.
And Donald Trump had to take on the elites in his own party.
When he did all of that for the American people, and no doubt the elites in his party were also telling him, keep it together, stay calm, you know, give the policy, stay with that stuff, which was advice.
He did none of that.
He was incapable of heeding that advice.
That actually would have been very good advice.
But he's not capable of doing that.
He's only capable of being 100% himself.
Whereas Kamala Harris, she memorized all the lines.
She kept it together.
She was a class act even when she was attacking him.
She was a perfect reflection of Democratic Party factory settings.
Totally indistinguishable from any other McKinsey-created factotum for the Democratic Party elites.
And so to me, that's really what we saw last night.
We saw somebody win the game of catering to the elites on her side and someone lose the game of catering to the elites on his side.
Now, of course, did he present the strongest case first policy to working class Americans?
He didn't do that.
He did not take that opportunity to do that, but I'm not sure that he needed to.
Yeah.
What's interesting here is, uh, I think again, style over substance, I think people are just sort of like, Hey, Kamala, are you going to change anything?
Because I'm not happy right now.
And she, yeah, she was more polished.
She was more rehearsed.
It was more canned, but Trump just kept hammering away.
And it was, it was sort of, he was reflecting the energy of the country, the mood of the country more accurately.
Maybe it wasn't presented as cleanly or as crisply, but they said, Hey, you know what?
I know that guy's just as ticked off about this mass immigration as I am.
I know that he's just as ticked off about how, you Incompetent.
They've been managing the economy as I am.
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So, and here's another piece that I haven't got into yet, and I want to bring this clip up.
It's 107, so get that ready.
We are seeing a phenomenon, Bhatia, that we have not seen since 2016, where independents are tracking almost in lockstep with Republicans, moment by moment, as they're watching the debate itself.
Play Cut 107.
They had the highest inflation perhaps in the history of our country because I've never seen a worse period of time.
People can't go out and buy cereal or bacon or eggs or anything else.
The people of our country are absolutely dying with what they've done.
They've destroyed the economy.
It gets where people are in the economy.
And that was a really interesting takeaway for me last night.
I didn't expect to see independents tracking so much with Republicans last night.
And they did.
They wanted to hear the meat on the economy.
They wanted to hear the plan.
And while most of the voters that we spoke with agreed stylistically with Kamala, they said that she sort of performed better than he did on substance, on the issues on economy and immigration, they really resonated with him.
And that was really what we were talking to a lot of the independent voters.
And we saw that right there with that line.
What's your take on what we're seeing with independents right now?
There was very little daylight between independents and Republicans and the instant reaction to these clips.
I think that was really fascinating and it reflects something I've been saying from the beginning of the campaign, which is if you just look at where Donald Trump is on in terms of policy, every position he has eked out reflects where 60-65% of the American electorate is at.
Whether it's abortion, whether it's immigration, whether it's tariffs, whether it's foreign policy, Donald Trump is running a consensus campaign, and he would be seen as the unity candidate if not for the very, very biased media, which of course we all saw was on full display last night.
Trying to portray him as an extremist.
And to me, what that says, when you have independents tracking with Republicans, when Donald Trump is talking about the economy, something you cannot fake voters on because they know what their bill is when they check out of that grocery store.
That reflects to me what I've been saying, which is that he is dead center.
And their attempts to portray him and cast him as an extremist are really failing.
Yeah, he is the sort of candidate of common sense, and especially now that we have this strong endorsement from RFK, there is this sense that he is a unity party candidate, and they can't really fudge the economy issues because, like you said, every time A voter goes to a grocery store and they see the price of eggs.
Every time they fill up their gas tank and they see the price of gas.
These are almost built-in advertisements for the Trump campaign.
And I want to go back to something I talked about with Alex Marlow just before you came on.
This issue of women voters, right?
So we've seen in recent polling that Trump is winning men by more than he's losing women.
I have heard that, you know, and we get the analysis of women.
We've heard it since Hillary Clinton.
That they have a tougher time in these settings.
They get judged.
Are they too feminine?
Are they too aggressive?
I'm hearing a lot of people didn't like Kamala Harris.
Just her tone, her posture, her body language.
As a woman, analyze what you saw on stage last night on this female issue.
You were much more qualified to do so than I.
It's so funny because when we started watching the debate of, you know, my husband is totally not in this industry at all.
He only follows things through me.
He's a foil to me.
He's a libertarian.
So we argue about economics a lot.
But so for the first time in many, many years, he was exposed to sort of Liberal punditry while we were waiting for the debate to start, you know, the ABC liberal pundits.
And at one point, one of the women said, you know, well, Donald Trump has called Kamala Harris dumb.
That's not going to go well, you know, for for women voters.
What should he have called her?
And my husband was like, he should go out and call her a dumb idiot.
Women hate other women.
And I thought that was really, I laughed really hard, obviously, but it's true.
I mean, I don't think a lot of women, you know, if you are a very well educated, wealthy woman who has been through the sort of same track as Kamala Harris, who, as we know, has kind of failed up from job to job to job, You probably do identify a little bit with, you know, snubs about her intelligence or what have you, different insults about that kind of thing.
But I think for a lot of women, you know, they don't look at someone like Hillary Clinton with all of the privilege and the immense wealth and the way that she carries herself through this world.
And see somebody who reflects them.
I've really seen very little of that.
I have to say, to Harris's credit, she has not really played the race card.
She has not played the woman card.
She's not running the Hillary campaign.
She's not going out there and saying, vote for me.
I'm a black woman.
There's been very little of that.
And I think we should all recognize that because clearly the Democrats have realized how alienating that is.
There was one very funny moment when she said, can you imagine these women who get pregnant and then they have to get on a plane and sit next to a stranger and go somewhere else to get an abortion.
My husband and I looked at each other like, when's the last time she was on a plane?
Like, we all have to sit next to strangers.
That's not some sort of civil rights violation.
This is so terrible, I know, right?
And Bhatia, I gotta give you credit.
You were one of the first that kind of He said this and it hit me that Trump is sort of a New Deal Republican.
And you see that with this working class adoration, this support that he has that seems to be so resilient, so firm in his corner.
And that even I would say a debate night where he wasn't on his A game and yet somehow he got his message through because it still hits almost viscerally with working class people.
Yeah, definitely.
It's just so obvious what his heart beats for.
To me, it seems really clear.
And how many presidents in your lifetime, Andrew, can you say, made campaign promises and then actually followed through with them?
It's very, very rare.
And he really did do that.
And it's funny, somebody said to me last night, well, he's too focused on the past.
But the past is where his record is, right?
It's where his successful record is, where he can point to and say, you know, the years of 2016 through 2020, before the pandemic, those were some of the best years that working class Americans can remember.
They will point to specific Trump policy that put money back in their pockets at the end of the month.
And honestly, some of those things the Biden administration has kept like the tariffs on steel and aluminum and other tariffs on China.
And that was one of Trump's best moments of the evening, in my opinion, was when he said to Harris, If tariffs are a tax on the middle class, why did you keep my tariffs and why don't you get rid of them now, right?
And you could see how frustrating it is to him that she's both taking credit for the things he did that worked and then also promising to be the agent of change, right?
So she takes credit for his successes and then promises change from Biden's while pretending to be a continuation of Biden.
It's very frustrating to watch.
Well, Batia, I want to get this clip in because it reminds me of what you just said.
This idea that she's been in charge for three and a half years.
Why didn't you fix any of these things if you think they're so bad?
Play cut 103.
She just basically repeated everything that Biden has said in the past.
What were your thoughts?
Donald Trump made a strong closing statement by saying, why didn't they do all the things that she's proposing during the three and a half years that they've been in office?
And Biden did this entire moderate stance back in 2020, and she's trying to do it again in 2024.
She didn't talk about her policy changes between 2020 and 2024.
Her whole centrist, moderate stance is just a facade.
Boil it all down.
What are the takeaways?
Is this going to move the needle for either side?
I don't know how much of it's going to move the needle, but I will say the proof that she's unlikely to do anything different than Biden is in a question, which is who is running the country right now, right?
It's not Biden.
It's obviously this kind of very deeply entrenched democratic, technocratic rule, oligarchy of the credentialed, right?
There is a very deep seated bureaucracy that does not change from administration to administration.
You want to know what they sound like when they're talking amongst themselves.
They sound the way she sounded on the debate stage last night
and they're obviously running the country right now and intend to keep running it when she is elected.
And Donald Trump is a real ax to that permanent bureaucracy.
One of the few presidents I can remember that actually has accomplishments
that benefited the working class.
Batya, thank you so much for making the time.
Excellent as always.
I won't put you on the spot and ask you who you're voting for, but until next time, maybe I will.
Anyways, take care, Batya.
Thanks so much for listening, everybody.
We'll talk to you soon.
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