It's no coincidence that the left is linked to riots or that it indulges all kinds of criminality and violent crime. As historian Bill Federer explains, from Biblical times to the present, authoritarians, Marxists, and socialists of all stripes have exploited division, violence, chaos, and false flags as a means to consolidate power and annihilate freedom. Bill and Charlie explore how, from Babylon to Biden, the left may mutate, but it never innovates. Become a member at members.charliekirk.com!Support the show: http://www.charliekirk.com/supportSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Subversive Strategies Against The Constitution00:04:05
Hey everybody, Bill Federer joins us for a conversation about communism, socialism, and the book of Deuteronomy.
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Continuing on this idea of looking at the Cloward Piven strategy and how the left is intentionally trying to destroy the America.
And I also want to get into Christian nationalism and so much more with my friend, Bill Federer.
Bill is a master historian, author of so many books.
I have several right here.
Bill, welcome back to the program.
Charlie, great to be with you.
So, Bill, Cloward Piven strategy, which was, of course, theorized by two academics back in the 60s and 70s.
Inform our audience of this idea that now seems to be reality.
Right.
So, after World War II, you had a debate going on in the Soviet Union.
Was communism supposed to rule Russia or rule the world?
And so, you had people like Stalin saying, well, we want to rule the world.
And the decision was made.
Is it through tanks or through a subversive approach?
And so, the socialist Antonio Gramsci dies in the Italian prison.
And he said, you can't conquer the West with tanks.
You have to do the long march through the institution.
You have to rot it from the inside.
And so that gave birth to this subversive backdoor approach.
And so you had Franklin Roosevelt's New Deal, and a lot of socialists infiltrated his ranks.
And it was this first attempt to have the federal government be the nanny to the country.
It's interesting.
James Madison said charity is no part of the duty of the federal government.
There was a famine in Texas, and Grover Cleveland vetoed a seed bill, which would give money.
And he said, there's no part of the federal government to be involved in charity.
And you have the famous speech by Davey Crockett, the congressman from Tennessee, that there was a fire in Georgetown, Washington, D.C., and the Congress was going to vote to give federal money.
And he said, no, it's not yours to give.
As individuals, you can give money, but the federal government cannot do charity.
But FDR, New Deal, he began to have the federal government be involved in redistributing wealth.
And socialism was a part of it, but it did not get institutionalized until Lyndon Johnson's Great Society Welfare State.
And that was based on Richard Cloward, Francis Piv in 1966, and their concept of get as many people to sign up for welfare as possible, and you'll backdoor them into a social dependency, and they'll give up their freedoms.
So there's two ways for people to give up their freedoms, fear and free stuff.
Fear is you come in and destabilize everything and they panic and they'll trade freedom for security.
Fear And Free Stuff Destroy Freedom00:06:29
But the second is free stuff.
And it's like a drug dealer takes over a neighborhood either with guns, get people in fear, they submit to the mob, or the drug dealer is so nice, he's giving away free drugs until you get hooked.
And so it's sort of a hunter catches animals through guns or bait.
And so this is the bait approach.
That's the Cloud Piven strategy.
Can you talk about other subversive strategies that are employed that history tells us, especially recently, ones that try to addict people to free stuff that try to overwhelm or undermine the American constitutional system, almost using the system against itself in an autoimmune type way to have the own immune system attack the body politic.
Right.
So, you know, the word devil in Greek means to divide, diabolos, to divide.
And imagine being in heaven and somebody sowing division.
Well, it happened.
It was Lucifer and he got cast out.
And then he goes into the garden and he sows division with Adam blaming Eve and Cain killing Abel.
And then there's an interesting period of Israel's history, the 400 years before they get a king called the Hebrew Republic.
And you have Gideon just defeated 100,000 Midianites.
There's nobody thinking on invading Israel.
But on the inside, he has an illegitimate son, Abimelech, and he wants power.
And so he goes to the town of Shechem and he does critical race theory, identity race politics.
He says, is it better for you that the sons of Gideon reign over you?
Remember also that I am your flesh and your bone.
And the men of Shechem said, well, we have to vote for him because he is our brother.
And so they go to the temple at Balbarith, the city treasury, and they take money to hire rioters, protesters, antipha, BLM type, vain and worthless persons.
And they took 70 pieces of silver out of the temple of Balbarith.
He hired these vain and worthless persons to do what?
To do violence.
And they killed the 70 brothers, half brothers of Gideon and all the rest.
And then the men of Shechem made Abimelech king.
So you have a country completely at peace, no threats on the inside.
Somebody's wanting to seize power.
And so it is a, it's like introducing an autoimmune disease into the body politic.
What's an autoimmune disease?
It's where your own immune system starts attacking your own organs.
You have a war going on on the inside of you.
Machiavelli perfected this 500 years ago.
Italy was a bunch of city-states, Venice, Genoa, Naples, Florence, Siena, and they always fought.
And Machiavelli thought if one prince could control all of Italy, it would stop the infighting.
So he writes a book called The Prince, where he advocates the ends justifies the means.
The end of one prince controlling all of Italy is such a good end because it'll stop all this infighting that any means necessary to get there is justified.
Lie cheat steel.
So if a prince conquers a city, the people would hate him.
But if the prince pays criminals, like Abimelech did, to smash windows and set things on fire and kill cows, the people will panic and want somebody to come in and restore order.
And the prince will come in, get rid of the very criminals he bribed to create the mess.
Nobody will know the better for it, and everyone will praise the prince as a hero.
So it's actually good marketing.
You create the need and fill it.
You go around the back of the house, set it on fire, create this crisis.
Then you go around the front house and sell them a fire extinguisher.
And they'll pay anything for it and even thank you for being there.
So it's called Machiavellianism, where you create or capitalize on a crisis to consolidate control.
The people wouldn't give up the freedom unless there was this crisis.
And so you want to egg it along.
Now, fast forward, 1800s, Germany was a bunch of kingdoms, Bavaria, Saxony, Prussia, and they always fought.
And you had the king of Prussia, Frederick, has a University of Berlin professor named Hegel.
And Hegel came up with sort of a Machiavelli idea, but he makes it even more organized.
It's called dialectics, Hegelian dialectics.
And so it's a triangle.
One corner is a thesis.
Opposite corner is an anti-thesis or antithesis.
And the top corner is a synthesis.
It sounds complicated, but it's not.
You start off with a status scroll, you create the opposite, a crisis, a panic, disorder, disruption, discord.
And then when everybody panics in fear, they're willing to give up some of their freedom to settle for an answer that's just half as bad.
That synthesis becomes the new starting point thesis.
Then you create another problem that's real bad, another antithesis.
People panic in fear.
They surrender some more of their freedoms to settle for an answer that's just half as bad.
That becomes the new thesis starting point.
You create another crisis.
People panic again, surrender some more of their freedoms.
And you keep doing this till you take all the freedoms away from the people and you concentrate them in the state.
And so now you fast forward to Saul Linsky, and he rode around with Al Capone's hitman in Chicago, Frank Nitty.
And he saw how all you had to do was kill a few people, smash a few windows, and the people will panic in fear and submit to the mob.
And he said, hey, let's just apply this to politics.
And so he says the first step in community organization is community disorganization.
Disruption of the present organization is the first step.
The organizer's first job is to rub raw the resentments of the people of the community, fan the latent flames of hostility to the point of overt expression.
For unless there is controversy, the people are not concerned enough to act.
And lo and behold, in the front of his book, Saul Linsky has an acknowledgement to Lucifer.
That's who started it all off.
So how do you destroy a marriage?
So discord.
How do you destroy a family?
So discord.
How do you destroy your church?
So discord.
How do you destroy your country?
So discord.
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Stirring Division For Imperial Takeover00:04:33
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What else about Saul Linsky should we know, Bill?
Who did he write the dedication to Rules for Radicals to?
He wrote it to Lucifer.
He said, lest we forget an over-the-shoulder acknowledgement to the first radical known to man who at least established his own kingdom, Lucifer.
And so this idea of intentionally sowing crises.
And, you know, the British became a one world government almost, right?
The British Empire, the sun never set on it.
They had India, Australia, New Zealand, Hong Kong, British Guiana, Canada, Barbados, Bermuda, Jamaica, and America.
It's like, how did they get so big?
Did they just walk into a country and say, hi, we want to be the biggest empire in the world?
And oh yeah, here are the keys.
No, let's look at how they took over India.
So in 1714, the British landed in Bengal and opened a trading post that turned into a trading fort that turned into them having guns.
And they would give guns to one kingdom and guns to another kingdom.
And then sow discord between the kingdoms, stir up ancient animosities.
They would fight each other, bloody and weaken each other.
And then the British would conquer both weakened kingdoms.
And they did this again and again and again until they took over all of India, right?
It's the same way that Pompey took over Israel.
You had the Pharisees and Sadducees at war, and Pompeii comes in and sides with the Pharisees against the Sadducees.
And then by the time it's done, Israel's a Roman colony.
And so the British even did this during the Revolutionary War.
So the Americans and Indians had reached an equilibrium.
And the British, General Johnny Burgoyne, meets with the Mohawk Indians in New York and promises them money for scalps.
And they would scalp the Americans and stir up.
It was so bad that it's listed in our declaration as one of the reasons we rebelled.
It says the king has excited domestic insurrection among us and has endeavored to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers the merciless Indian savages whose known rule of warfare is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes, and conditions.
So here they came in.
They wanted to stir up this division because they wanted to take over the whole thing.
They did it again during the War of 1812.
The British controlled Pensacola, Florida.
Just north was Fort Mims, Alabama, and the Red Stick Creek Indians.
The French pronunciation of Redstick is Baton Rouge.
Anyway, the British go to the Redstick and promise them money for scalps.
And so they captured Fort Mims, Alabama, and then proceeded to scalp all 500 captives.
And the historical marker said, here in Creek Indian War, 1813-14 took place the most brutal massacre in American history.
Indians took the fort and then scalped all, but 36 of the some 550 in the fort.
Creeks had been armed by British in this phase of the war of 1812.
Does anybody think the British Empire cared about the Red Stick Creek Indians?
No, they were intentionally stirring up division because they wanted to conquer the whole thing.
And so this idea is how do you conquer a country?
You break them into subgroups, pit them against each other.
And when they fight each other, it weakens the country and you can conquer it.
You know, I was amazed at FDR during World War II, and he was making comments.
One, he said, November 1st, 1940, whoever seeks to set one nationality against another seeks to degrade all nationalities.
Whoever seeks to set one race against another seeks to enslave all races.
And then he said, January 2nd, 1942, remember the Nazi technique, pit race against race, religion against religion, prejudice against prejudice, divide and conquer.
And then I was watching Charles Barkley, NBA sports player.
Blaming Opponents For Sown Chaos00:05:29
He was on NBC sports panel April 13th of 2021.
And he said, man, I think most white people and black people are great people.
I really believe that in my heart.
But I think our system is set up where our politicians are designed to make us not like each other because they want to keep their grasp of money and power.
They divide and conquer.
He says, we're so stupid following our politicians.
Our only job is, hey, let's make the whites and blacks not like each other.
Let's make the rich and poor not like each other.
Let's scramble the middle class.
I really believe this in my heart.
So here you have this observation that, hey, somebody wants us to be at war with each other.
And so that's the strategy.
You get a division going on on the inside.
And there's one other phase to it.
They not only want to create the division, they want to blame you for it, right?
They want to blame me for it.
And so this is called psychological projection.
And it's being used every day.
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Psychological projection, and Sigmund Freud coined the term: it's where the accuser blames the victim.
And you can see this in the Bible, where Potiphar's wife accused Joseph of lusting after her when she was lusting after him.
It's the typical narcissistic response.
Little kids do it.
I didn't start the fight, you did.
Or a cheating spouse will accuse the faithful spouse of being unfaithful.
And so it's in politics now where they do all the crooked stuff.
They want to sow division.
They want to create the crisis, but they want to blame their innocent opponents for it.
David Axelrod, he was a campaign advisor to Obama, and he was on NPR radio and he April 2010.
And he said, in Chicago politics, there was a tradition of throwing a brick through your own campaign office window and then calling a press conference to say you've been attacked, right?
So they do the attack, but they want to blame you.
And so it's all throughout politics.
When you look at the examples of Hillary Clinton colluding with Russia, giving away a fifth of U.S. uranium, and suspiciously, there's $145 million contributions to her Clinton Foundation.
And so what does she do?
She pays for a steel dossier to accuse Trump of colluding with Russia.
She, the same thing.
And when she gets caught paying for the steel dossier, all she has to do is pay $113,000 fine to the FEC.
Biden brags on C-SPAN about extorting Ukraine, saying, stop investigating my son, or I'm going to hold back billions of dollars of U.S. aid.
What do they do?
They accuse Trump of extorting Ukraine.
They accuse him of exactly what they're doing.
His name gets smeared in the media.
And if it ever gets pointed back at them, by that time, they get a pass.
You had, they knew that Biden had classified documents illegally in his garage.
And they decided to stage a very public raid on Mar-Lago simply for the headlines.
They knew where the papers were.
They knew that they were safe, but they wanted the headlines.
Why?
Because they wanted to accuse Trump of what Biden was guilty of and Pence and the others that had classified documents.
And so it's this distraction of blaming your opponent for what you're guilty of.
It's called blame shifting.
Nero set fire to Rome.
Blame the Christians.
There's one story where Paul was praying in the temple in Jerusalem and the Pharisees saw him.
They stirred up a riot.
They're pulling Paul apart.
The Romans have to rescue Paul.
And then there's a trial.
And Tertullus, the prosecutor, said, we found this man, Paul, a pestilent fellow, mover of sedition, ringleader of the sect of the Nazarene.
He's going about to provade the temple.
And Paul said, they neither found me in the temple disputing with any man, neither raising up the people nor in the synagogue, neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me.
They stirred up the insurrection at the Capitol, but they wanted to blame this innocent Paul.
They did it to Jesus' projection.
There are these Pharisees, their father is the devil, and they accused Jesus of being demon-possessed.
And Adam did it to God.
The very first sin, Adam sinned.
And what did he do?
He blameshifted the woman you gave.
Right?
And so they do the crooked stuff they want to blame us for.
They call you, you're hateful when they're hateful.
You're intolerant when they're intolerant.
Panic Leads To Surrendered Liberty00:06:05
So they want to sow division so they can get people into fear so that they'll panic and trade their freedom for security.
But they don't want to just sow the division.
They want to blame us for the division that they're sowing.
And then there's an interesting set of stories from history where it goes from just accusations to actual military engagements.
And this is what's called the false flag.
So last year I spoke in Beaufort, North Carolina, right on the coast, big Republican event.
They had judges and congressmen there and their big windows that you could look at the waves coming in.
It was right on the water.
And that's where Blackbeard had his Queen Ange revenge sink near Okra.
And the couple that hosted me, the husband was in charge of the local museum.
And so we're talking Blackbeard history.
And he said, you know, the pirates really didn't want to get into a fight because if they got wounded, there were no pirate hospitals that you could go to.
And so they wanted to psychologically take, you know, scare their opponents into surrendering.
So it's called the false flag, where they would raise a flag of a friendly nation in distress and just sit there and wait.
And then a friendly nation ship would come by and look through their telescope and say, oh, look, there's a friendly nation in distress.
Let's get a little closer to help them out.
Let us get closer and closer and closer until they're too close to get away quickly.
And all of a sudden, the friendly nation in distress flag comes down, up comes the pirate flag, and the people on the friendly ship are like, oh, no.
And the pirate ship is fast and that Russia's there.
And Blackbeard was like 6'8.
And he had a big mop of black hair and black beard.
And he would take the wicks that you would light the cannons with and he'd light them on fire and stick him in his beard and in his hair.
So he looked like this giant smoking demon.
He'd have two pistols and he'd have a dagger in his teeth and his pirates would board the ship and the people would panic and say, take my gold, take my money, just let me live, right?
And so it's a psychological operation to get people into fear so they'll panic and give away their freedoms.
And so there's some stories a lot of people aren't familiar with.
1788, Sweden was a big country and it had a competitor named Russia.
And the king of Sweden wanted to get into a war with Russia, but his parliament would not approve funding.
And so he pays the tailor of the royal Swedish opera to sew Russian uniforms.
And then he has Swedish soldiers put on the Russian uniforms.
And they stage an attack at a Swedish outpost called Umala.
And when the word spreads across Sweden that the Russians had attacked, the parliament in Stockholm quickly approves the funding that the king wanted in the first place.
And so this was similarly used in the 1939 by the Nazis.
They wanted to invade Poland, but world public opinion wouldn't support it.
And so they had Nazi soldiers put on Polish soldier uniforms, and they staged an attack at a German outpost called Gleivitz.
So it's the Gleiwitz incident, which happened to have a radio tower.
And so they're giving play-by-play reports.
The Polish are coming in.
The Polish are shooting.
The Polish are doing this.
And it spreads across Germany and across the world that the Poles had attacked.
And the Germans said, well, they started it.
We're justified in invading Poland in 1939 and starting World War II.
And then you have Japan.
1931, they had a railroad along a little coast of China called Mukden, and they claimed there was a railroad explosion.
And they used this as an excuse for the Japanese to invade China.
And the Japanese killed over 100,000 in Nanking, China.
Later, there was an investigation.
They walked the whole railroad line, and there was no explosion.
They just simply made it up as an excuse to go in and say the Soviets wanted to invade Finland in 1939, and the world public opinion wouldn't have supported it.
So the Soviets shell one of their own Russian villages on the Finnish border and make it look like the Finns did it.
And they used that as an excuse to invade during the Winter War of 1939.
The Turks did it.
So you had Ataturk was a secular leader.
And then you had Menderes in 1955 that wanted to make Turkey a fundamentalist caliphate again.
And the plot was to get rid of the Greek Christians left in Constantinople.
And so they were going to have a Turkish university student put a bomb in the Turkish consulate in Greece and blow up Ataturk's birthplace, which was in Greece, and then stir up sentiment against the Greeks to drive them out of Constantinople.
The bombs never went off, but the newspapers ran with the story anyway.
The Greeks had blown up the consulate and Ataturks.
It whips the people of Istanbul into a frenzy.
They attacked the Greek neighborhoods.
They tear them down, destroy stores and churches, and they drive them out.
And so this idea was even used more recently.
Erdogan ran for office as a secular leader in Turkey, and then he started moving in a fundamentalist direction.
And a growing political movement was forming against him.
And so he stages a coup against himself and then arrests all of his political opponents.
And when the dust settles, he doesn't have any political opponents left.
And Stalin did it.
Are these stories interesting?
I mean, I think it's very interesting.
Oh, very much no, Bill, it's excellent.
Citizens As Kings In A Republic00:08:26
And I do want to shift gears in a second, and I want you to tease this.
Christian nationalism, talk about how the Bible inspired the Constitution, putting the Christian nationalist label aside.
Deuteronomy in particular, one minute, Bill, give us a little tease here.
How did the book of Deuteronomy inspire the founding fathers?
Well, it's the book of laws.
And so America is a book of laws where the law is the king and not the individual.
There is the pre-king, post-king history of Israel.
So America, our founders looked to the pre-King Saul period where you had 400 years, millions of people, no king.
Everybody is taught the law and personally accountable to God to follow it.
But in England, they followed the post-King Saul period of the Bible.
This Saul's anointed.
He's the divine right of kings, and the kings rule through fear.
And so King Saul is the divider between America and England.
Both of them look to the Bible for their authority, but one is the, I'm the divine right of kings.
God chose me to be the king and I'm going to rule through fear.
And the other is America.
We're like, no, we look to the Hebrew Republic.
400 years, millions of people, no king.
And so that really is the theological debate today.
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Bill, before we continue, plug some of your books, Bill, please.
Well, one of them is called Who is the King in America, and it's the people.
And so it goes through the 6,000 years of world history.
The most common form of government is kings.
Nimrod, Pharaoh, Caesar, Kaiser, Sultans are.
They keep getting bigger and bigger because with military advancements, kings can kill more people.
So instead of king killing Abel with a rock, they can kill with a bronze weapon, iron weapon, phalanx spear that the Greeks had, scimitar sword that the Muslims had, gunpowder that the Chinese invented.
Weapon improves, but same fall in nature.
But as the centuries go on, these kingdoms get bigger.
And then with technological advancements, kings can track more people.
And so 2 BC, Augustus Caesar, wanted a worldwide tracking system called census, a tax enrollment.
If he could have had 5G and cell phones and facial recognition software, he'd have been tempted to use that.
And so as the centuries go on, the kingdoms get bigger.
Clearly, anybody that can plot on a graph sees that at some point, it's going to max out on a global level.
So it goes through these tactics on how to take power from the people and give it back to the government, the fear and the free stuff.
Go through the French Revolution and how their motto was liberty, equality, fraternity.
Sounds good, doesn't work.
Liberty is experienced individually.
Fraternity is their word for socialism, the collective, the group, the mob, the state.
And equality can be understood two ways.
In America, it was equal treatment before the law.
In France, it was everyone having an equal amount of stuff.
And if the fraternity, the collective, the group, the socialist state thinks you have too much stuff, well, guess what?
The benefit of the collective outweighs the benefit of the individual.
And they can crush your individual liberty, confiscate all your stuff, redistribute it to their friends, and kill you.
Right.
And so America, we believe it writes from a creator and the government's purpose is to guarantee to you your God-given rights.
Anyway, I go through all that in this book on socialism.
There's another book.
It's called America's God and Country Encyclopedia of Quotations.
I think it's a great book.
So Bill, in the time we have remaining here, what scriptures or Bible stories do you think best support the idea that Christians need to be involved in politics?
Right.
Well, top-down versus bottom-up.
So for Israel, their first 400 years, they were a bottom-up form of government.
And every town had their elders.
And then when the priests stopped teaching the law, every man did what was right in their own eyes, turns into chaos.
They go to Samuel the prophet and they say, we want to be like the other countries.
We want a king.
And Samuel cries, and the Lord tells Samuel, they did not reject you, they rejected me.
So God's original plan for Israel was to not have a king.
This was an anomaly that you don't appreciate until we zoom out and look at all of recorded human history, where it's these kings and pharaohs and Caesars and Kaisers and Sultans.
All of a sudden, around 1400 BC, there's millions of people and no king, and it worked because everybody's taught the law and personally accountable to God to follow it.
And so, America's founders look back to this pre-King Saul period.
It's called the Hebrew Republic, and they took that and they made that the model for New England.
And so, that's why they taught Hebrew at Yale and Harvard.
And so, in each town, there was a building called a meeting house.
That's where the pastor would teach the Bible, and that's where they would do their city business.
The word synagogue means meeting house.
That's where the rabbi would teach the law, and that's where they would gather together and do their city business.
I mean, why build a separate building just to talk about a different topic?
And so, when the Revolutionary War starts, the British send over a military governor, Thomas Gage, and he outlaws meeting houses.
We don't need the people meeting and giving your consent to stuff, you just obey government mandates.
And we're like, No, in America, nothing happens unless we give our consent to it.
He's like, No, you obey government mandates.
And we're like, No, nothing happens unless we give our consent to it.
He goes, No, you're a robot, you're a zombie.
You do what you're told.
When the government issues a mandate, you jump.
And we're like, No, nothing happens unless we give our consent to it.
Turned into a revolutionary war and we win.
And we set up a government where it's we, the people, government from the consent of the governed.
And so, we have a bottom-up form of government.
Our founders, for all their faults, gave us a present.
And that present is you get to be the king with the little K over your life.
And then all of us together are king with the little K over the country.
The word citizen is Greek, it means co-king.
When we pledge allegiance to the flag and to the republic, we're basically pledging allegiance to us being in charge of ourselves.
And so, when somebody protests the flag, what they're saying is, I don't want to be the king anymore.
I protest this system or I participate in ruling myself.
It's like, okay, somebody else will dictate to you.
And so, America is unique.
What makes America great is we get to be in charge of our lives, and all of us together are in charge of the country.
But when we don't know this history, after the crises, there's the human response to want to surrender your freedoms to somebody that promises to fix it.
And over time, you've surrendered so much that it's flipped from a bottom-up form of government to a top-down.
And so, that's why Romans 13, the scripture that says that all authority is given by God and that we're supposed to submit to the governing authorities.
Romans 13 is to be understood differently in a monarchy versus a republic.
In a monarchy, the king has subjects who are subjected to his will.
So, in a monarchy, subjects submit to the king.
In a republic, the citizens are the king.
In a monarchy, subjects obey.
That's right.
In a republic, citizens give consent.
That's right.
So, Bill, we got to run.
Thank you so much, Bill.
Excellent work.
We'll have you on again soon.
We never have enough time.
Bill Feddere, everybody.
Check out his books.
Thanks so much, Bill.
Thanks so much for listening.
Everybody, email us as alwaysfreedom at charliekirk.com.
Thanks so much for listening and God bless.
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