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July 30, 2023 - The Charlie Kirk Show
29:06
Escaping "Nice" Christianity with Aaron Ginn

Jesus was not a "nice guy," so why do so many Christians worry about being "nice" before anything else? Charlie and writer Aaron Ginn talk about how "nice" isn't in the Bibile, how it derives from the Latin for "ignorant," and how the desire to be "nice" is ruining the quality of America's Christian preachers.Support the show: http://www.charliekirk.com/supportSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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Masculinity and Nice Guy Christians 00:03:30
Hello, everybody.
Happy Sunday.
It's a conversation I had with Aaron Jin about masculinity, feminized Christianity, and more.
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There's going to be some amazing stuff, exclusive meetups, Zoom calls, all sorts of stuff, answering exclusive questions.
Also, exclusive interview with Dan Bongino, Tucker Carlson.
In fact, listen to this little taste of my exclusive conversation with Dan Bongino.
The prevailing orthodoxy of colleges is that if something bad happens to you, you need a support group and you need to protest.
Your argument in the book is if something bad happens to you, it actually could be a good thing.
It's a blessing.
You will never, you know, I don't like pithy little nonsense statements and stuff like that.
But someone said to me a long time ago, it wasn't like some philosopher, just some guy meant, you know, if you were happy all the time, you wouldn't understand what happiness is.
Like it would just be this kind of regular way.
You wouldn't get the joy.
You need contrast.
Yeah, you need contrast.
So this morning, I put a picture of my locals accountant, me, you know, I know I have this speech today, and I got a dinner tonight with a local politician about some stuff that, you know, it's Sunday, like I should have this day off, but I'm here with you.
And so this morning I said to Paula, like, it's 95 degrees in Florida.
I said, let's go downstairs, do a full body workout.
By the way, my garage with no AC, so it's about 80 in the garage.
And then I said, I'm going to jump in 190-degree sauna afterwards for about 10 minutes before this speech.
And so I put a picture up on locals, and I'm like, you want to see what pain looks like?
I said, if you don't go through this suffering and this suck all the time, you're never going to learn to adore the moments of joy and success.
You have that this trigger bullshit stuff is just crazy.
You can listen to that at length, members.charliekirk.com.
Enjoy this conversation with Aaron Jin.
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Happy Sunday, everybody.
Buckle up.
Here we go.
Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.
Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus.
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I want to thank Charlie.
He's an incredible guy.
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We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.
That's why we are here.
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Aaron, welcome to the program.
Hey, man.
Nice to see you again.
Yeah, thank you.
So you have a whole program right now on masculinity.
Tell us about it.
Yeah, so I've been writing the series devoted to what I find like an epidemic.
Of course, last time I was on the show, we talked about another epidemic, the Fauci apocalypse, right?
When I came into town during the lockdowns and talked about COVID.
The Epidemic of Nice Guyism 00:15:02
And so I've been writing a lot about masculinity biblical friendship, particularly around this idea of like nice guy Christians, which is sort of plaguing a lot of big Eva evangelism, which I think really came to head during the Trump era and even today, sort of as we think about like what comes next for the party.
And so nice guy Christians, or you could say nice guy in general, is there was a seminal book written a couple decades ago by Dr. Glubber, who is a psychiatrist who identified something in America where that men were particularly behaving in ways that were quite manipulative and immoral, aka trying to be nice.
And a part of that is basically never saying what you want, never being direct, manipulating people by being nice and kind to them so they do something that like for you, right?
So these like covert contracts, things like that, driven by toxic shame.
And a lot of the problems I think that America is facing from fatherlessness to like issues in politics and even the stuff that you talked about about plaguing the church in America about not understanding what Trump was or is, depending if he gets re-elected or what we need to do as a country to defeat China and things like that.
I think it's all connected to this around the idea of how men view themselves.
And particularly around being nice, which is very different than being kind, is the indirectness of a lot of men.
And that goes everything from how they work and how they choose relationships and how they have friends and how they don't have friends, how they treat their children.
That's a very astute point.
Yeah.
And so I think this is why maybe you and I have experienced a lot, both in our friend group and then working in politics, me on the edge is more of you involved about why we can talk to somebody who's like theologically and morally aligned with us.
But then when it actually comes to doing something, acting, they don't follow through.
And you don't understand why.
No, and I'll give you an example.
We've had a pastor on once, and I won't say the name, kind of a cool guy pastor who was speaking out against some of the woke stuff, really nice person, and he invited me to his church.
So I texted him, like, hey, I'm going to be in talent.
And then he texted back.
He's like, oh, well, actually, my board doesn't want you to come.
I'm like, oh, yeah, you're exactly who I thought you were.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And I think particularly for Christians, so I have a whole section devoted to how Jesus wasn't nice.
No, yeah, that's the latest medium post, right?
No, no, I don't write on there anymore.
No, it's just substack.
Substack, yeah.
Oh, this is June 10th.
Maybe this is all messed up.
So yeah, my last part of the series is devoted to Christ and what scripture says.
So what do you mean Jesus wasn't nice?
What do you mean by that?
So one is nice.
I agree, obviously.
Yeah, obviously, yeah, yeah.
So one is that nice is a Latin word.
Yeah, tell me the etymology of it.
Yeah, basically the original meaning was ignorant.
But nice has also had multiple versions of like everything from like you're basically more or less a bad guy to being great, to being evil, to being manipulative, right?
Over the course of the word nice, basically it has a ton of meanings, similar to the word, like when you mean nice guy.
It's so root, though, in Latin.
Oh, ignorant.
No, but actually the Latin word.
Yeah, yeah, that's what it is.
So like whenever people originally used the word nice, they meant you're ignorant.
So versus kind in Greek, which actually appears in scripture, is generally like kind of four things.
It's like generally goodness, righteousness, grace, long-suffering.
So, but nice does not appear anywhere in the Hebrew Bible or in any Aramaic translation or Greek translation.
The first time we have record of it is like 14th century.
And this is why I also had so many meanings, which is also typical of nice guys, right?
Like this nice pastor guy you met.
Like he's here.
He's like, yeah, yeah, rah-rah-rah.
Total coward, intellectually.
I could say the name, but.
Yeah, you don't be rude, right?
So Christ, as an example in scripture, he was never nice.
He was kind, right?
So being kind as rooted in the Greek is both oriented towards truth and goodness, right?
Which nice guys don't.
They're not principled.
They don't stand up for themselves.
They don't stand up for other people.
And so one is that we have lots of examples of Jesus being super direct and you could say not being nice.
Remember, he called a Canaanite woman a dog.
He called Pharisees vipers, right?
And the woman.
Sin no more.
Yeah, the woman at the well basically calls her a harlot.
And none of this was an orientation, of course, of like demeaning or shame.
There's no shame in Christ.
But it was to correct the error, right?
Yeah, and to see them for who they were, right?
And nice guys don't do that.
Nice guys instead, they lie, they manipulate, they deceive.
And because Christianity in America has told them to be a good Christian man means to be nice.
Again, the word never appears.
Being a good Christian man is being kind, being like Paul and being like Jesus, right?
Paul was certainly not nice.
Like, if you read any of the letters, no, he's pretty harsh.
Yes, because the world is sinful and the world has fallen.
And so I think the men in America are really suffering from this contagion, this view of themselves that they're supposed to behave in ways that are not biblical and not oriented to Christ.
And that's what creates these passive men that don't lead their families, that don't stand up for themselves.
They don't fight for goodness.
They don't fight for character.
They won't fight for our country.
Instead, they just like they placate and being like, oh, to be Christ means being a pushover.
That's right.
No, this is widespread in our seminaries.
And so I'd say, I mean, and you kind of know it.
First of all, most Christian pastors look like women, right?
No, they're metrosexual, skinny people.
They'd be cool, they'd be cool.
I mean, look, I'm just looking at some of the pictures now of a pastor who didn't want to be there.
No, but very baggy clothes, right?
Not very masculine features.
So that plays into it.
But there is this belief on the men in particular, must be nice, must be nice.
So for example, when I say that transgenderism comes from the pit of hell, they say, Charlie, that's not you being nice.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So how did a secular word that's non-biblical infuse it as almost the ultimate commandment?
It's not, you shall have no other gods before me, shall not covet, shall not steal on your mother and father, remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy.
But now like the ultimate commandment is, thou shall be nice against evil.
Yeah, I think it's a combination of post-1950s, sort of the insert of the sexual revolution, more or less Marxism, that was trying to attack the foundations of what to make America what it is, which has basically constantly been kind of rabble-rousers, frontiersmen, like push the boundaries.
Awfully disagreeable.
Yes, right?
And I mean, you have photos of people who are behind you that are quite disagreeable people.
James Madison, Winston Churchill, Clarence Thomas, Jonathan Edwards, George Whitfield.
By the way, if you guys ever come to the Charlie Kirk studios, it's like a museum here.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So there's this kind of spirit of America that is remarkably masculine that does not exist in many of the other cultures.
And so for, you could say for the enemy, which would be Satan, or for other enemies, which would be a more secular human, like China to Marxism, to attack America to the point where it's neutered, right?
Because most countries know they can't ever really kinetically defeat us.
The only way they can defeat us is through culture, right?
And so they had to go after the source, which is the church and men that actually make America what it is.
And so I think this Christian, a nice guy, Christians, and the reason why I put it before a Christian is like it overtakes Christ, right?
Oh, it does.
And so Big Eva kind of invented this thing that is the culture.
That's exactly right.
And infiltrated it and said, like, no, this is the highest calling.
You're like, but wait a minute, like, how can you get past that?
Like, Jesus literally makes bold claims to the point that it offends people so much that he goes, gets crucified.
So, I mean, just the obvious, 45 seconds in the segment, but if you're not nice, that doesn't mean you have to be mean.
No, I don't know.
And that's the immediate sloppy.
Exactly.
Big Eva.
Like, whoa, you're just a mean person because you're not nice.
Yeah, yeah.
That's awfully a sloppy, two-dimensional way to look at it.
Yeah, it's rather it's being direct, right?
Being kind means to be direct.
And so, what they're missing is that when you're being nice, you're actually lying to people.
Because everybody has wants, everyone has needs, everybody has opinions.
But when you're forced to be nice, you're just lying.
Like, are you really telling me that, like, as an example, that intimacy is a huge problem for many men in marriage?
And so, they're nice to the point where they lie to other people.
Oh, it's great, right?
Or like, oh, she's such a like, she's such a wonderful person.
In reality, it's like, no, you're actually lying.
Or like a job.
Like, oh, you're trying to be nice to your boss.
Oh, yeah, like, I don't deserve that raise.
Or like, I'm trying really, really hard, you know, and I'm just so happy to be here rather than saying, like, no, I deserve a raise.
Have you received any pushback to this contention?
Most of the pushback would be mean, which again is like, you know, you're kind of a shallow way of understanding what I've written.
The second one would be like, Dr. Glubber is not a Christian.
I love this, by the way.
You're not commanded to be nice.
It's a made-up term.
You are commanded to be kind, but truth is the ultimate gospel.
Okay.
There is no love without truth.
So is it time for us in Christianity to crusade against the word nice?
Oh, please, yes.
I think you're onto something pretty deep here.
Yeah, so because I don't think it's to over-respond into, let's say, some of the pastors you probably have on that are like rude and mean, right?
Who don't position themselves as speaking the truth towards redemption and reconciliation.
Because that's the real difference between our faith and the other faiths: is that the point of the cross is that we are in a position to help restore the world.
Yeah, that's right.
And you can't restore on a lie.
You can't restore on fake truth.
By definition.
The cross corrects error.
Sin means you're off target, literally.
That's what the word is.
Exactly.
Hata, right?
That means you're not where you should be.
Yes.
But the origination of desire, and that's what I think was one of the failures of many nice guys, is that a lot of the desires they feel are wrong.
But that's not how ever in the Hebrew Bible or in the Greek New Testament, like sin is ever presented.
The desires that God gives you is good.
Where it goes is bad.
That's exactly right.
And the orientation of a lot of evangelical thought is this idea that your heart, right?
They talk about heart issues.
And it's like, well, that's actually where all the sin is.
And I think what they're doing is they're misreading a lot of the Old Testament scripture on heart and what God is going to do with the heart in terms of the new covenant, right?
Like Jeremiah 33 and 31.
And they're also misunderstanding, issue, even if you talk to Ben, like if you talk to Ben about sin, I think a lot of the.
They're very action-oriented in Judaism.
Yeah, because to them, it's like, oh, it's like the origination is not bad.
We just got to put it in a good place, right?
But a lot of like big Eva teaches men that, no, you're just bad and you're shameful.
How dare you have any of these thoughts?
How you dare have any of these ideas?
It's got to root that out of your heart rather than saying, oh, actually, no, your desire for winning, your desire for victory, your desire for being proud of yourself should go somewhere.
But instead, it teaches them like, no, that's bad.
That's bad, bad, bad.
Right.
And maybe this relates to sort of our sort of reformed, and I'm mostly reformed, like orientation about how we view people, et cetera, et cetera.
But a lot of nice guys are living in this really deep shame, which is really sad because you talk to them and you hear how they talk about themselves.
If any friend ever talked to them that way, they wouldn't be friends with that person.
But yet they live with that person in their brain.
And then when it comes to expression of the faith to the world, if you talk to non-believers, I think the one reason why Peterson to Rogan to Sigma males and all this stuff is happening is because men know what's being presented by Big Eva American evangelicalism is not real or true or good.
So they go to these other men who are like, yeah, I should want to go eat steak and shoot guns and be around my dude friends and smoke cigars or talk about whatever and not feel ashamed.
Wokeness to me is this, like, we could say like Christianity without Jesus that is deeply unmasculine, that is like constantly hunting down, pursuing people out of heart issues, sin hunting and attacking people.
And then there's not a man to be there saying like, wait a minute.
Actually, you should just kind of say what you want.
Like, like, it doesn't mean that necessarily it's true or good, but we can debate it, right?
But this lack of masculine culture, nice guys, et cetera, I think is one reason why we have white pole culture and all this like nonsense is because we're feeding this beast.
So I think American evangelicalism has taught men to think less of themselves, oriented to shame, have no friends, don't pursue actually who Christ is actually in the Bible, and instead has created this neuterized thing that is that Paul really deeply ashamed of.
It's like, you know, Rick Warren and Levi Lusko and all these people who really don't like me.
And I got in a text argument with Rick Warren, who's, you know, become a hyper-feminine type figure, right?
He got kicked out for a reason, SBC.
Yeah, well, literally hyper-feminine because he thinks women should be pastors.
But he also, his whole approach is very feminine, very feely.
Isn't that part of the problem?
Is the feminization of the American church?
Yeah, because if you go to the church in Africa, aka real hardship.
So, you know, I let you know that I'm in Colorado.
And it's just funny when people are like, look at this nature.
And you go to Africa, you're like, no, that's freaking nature.
That nature is going to kill you, right?
And you talk to a Christian there, and you present.
That's exactly.
So even this is such a great example.
So I went to Tanzania during the whole Fauci apocalypse, and it was the only country open.
And I asked my tour guide who was Christian.
So Tanzania is one of the few split countries, Muslim and Christian.
They're a Christian by the first name.
And he asked me, yes, like, what's going on in America?
And I was like, what do you mean?
He was like, why are all these white people scared of this thing?
Right.
And he was deeply just concerned about like, what do you mean?
Like, I live in this country where like a lion can kill you, a bunch of diseases.
And he's, you know what he is?
He is freaking happy.
No, of course.
But that's the thing.
So, I mean, we're going to keep you for a couple more minutes in the break here.
So guys, if we could configure it.
But it isn't, I mean, part of the issue, and I think you've pinpointed it, is the wokeness capitalizes on guilt that is not dealt with.
Yes.
Yeah.
And bad theology leads to, as you say, this incredibly heavy guilt on a lot of largely white men who then become metro-sexual versions of their former selves.
Reconciling Christ and Modern Guilt 00:03:02
Yeah, rather than believing that Christ is victor, right?
That Christ doesn't ever say these things that big Eva, Warren, or whoever says.
You know what Christ says when he sees you?
And these are all present tense Greek words.
He says that you're chosen.
You're elected.
You're a saint.
You're the son of God.
That you are part of the new kingdom.
Right now.
Doesn't say in the future.
He says right now.
Because how you exist today, as presented by Paul in Ephesians and Galatians, a bunch of the places, like as you exist today, because you are saved and you live in eternity is how you are today.
Because in heaven, it's eternity.
It's is.
There's no future.
There's no past.
Everything is now.
I am.
So we do have a question here, though, about, let me just ask this for you, Aaron, and you can help us.
They say, Charlie, my pastor just gave a sermon on being nice.
How do I best confront him?
Meaning that we must be nice to the world or else people will not accept Christianity.
One, that that's an incredible diminutive view of the gospel.
So, and of sin and of Christ's work on the cross, that somehow it's dependent on you in being nice to send the message.
I mean, I think Paul really condemns that in Galatians as an example of that.
But the other thing is that you should put never anything, both in the sense of theology, like as in one area that I do condemn, let's say, the more masculine side of the church is they put these things in front of the gospel to prevent people from coming to faith as in different behavioral things and stuff like that.
There's nothing that prevents you from being saved.
And so you should not put these requirements on people outside of accepting the fact that Jesus died for your sins and gave you the Holy Spirit and He rose again from the dead and he will return the Nicene Creed.
Nothing else should come between that.
But in terms of being nice, to me, that's putting a list on it, as if you can somehow influence what God is going to do.
People are elected and it's God's choice.
He uses you, right, and uses your words to propel the gospel forward and your talents and your skills.
But artificially putting yourself in some sort of like weird cultural mix of things, a milieu of like, you know, manipulative behavior, lying, et cetera, all these elements of being nice is a gross, grotesque belief that you can somehow do something in terms of the gospel message.
So the way I would approach him is literally go read the first part of Galatians, which most people don't know.
Paul's being sarcastic.
So when he's calling the super apostles, all these things, he's mocking this church, right?
So, and probably that pastor may have a diminutive view of Paul, which is kind of, you know, which is very common among these feminized pastors.
But it's very hard to argue if the person accepts Paul that he was not nice.
And the other one would be like, you can go to Christ and you can see how he talked to Samaritans, see how he talked to Pharisees.
He was not, he did not hide what he thought.
Because if your goal is redemption, which is the goal of every person sharing the gospel, you cannot reconcile on a lie.
You have to reconcile on the reality of who Christ is, what he said, what he's going to do.
Have we seen the American church ever be so captured by a secular idea as we have now?
Mocking the Super Apostles 00:02:40
I mean, yeah, I mean, it's really hard to, I mean, I don't want to be, because technically I am a post-millennial.
So that's a difficult position.
Yeah.
Yeah, as in, like, oh, it's going to get better and better, right?
Although I do submit that Revelation reads in a pre-millennial orientation, right?
We're going to get a lot of emails.
Yeah, yeah.
We have a lot of Calvary folks that watch.
Oh, okay.
I disagree.
So pre-trib, pre-millennial.
Yeah, exactly.
So I would say that it is pretty depressing.
And I'm a student of church history.
Outside of very grotesque things that the church accepted for a while, like I would say, you know, indigent servitude, slavery, et cetera, which was prevalent in a lot of parts of the church for hundreds of years.
It's hard to see something as terrible as what the church is suffering from right now.
And that is an extension really of an, that's what Americans don't understand.
So much of what we're dealing with within the American church is like in America.
If you go to another country, and like one of my most memorable moments is going with some of our friends to Palestine.
And I talked to my tour guide there in Bethlehem.
Palestine doesn't exist.
So the West Bank.
So that is true.
It's technically true.
It's a Roman word, right?
It's not a region.
Philistine.
Yeah.
And my tour guide there in Bethlehem was a Christian.
That's an Arab city now.
It's 90% Arab.
And he mentioned that.
He goes, whenever he was born, it was like 30 or 40%.
And now it's incredibly small.
And he joked that it's like the things you thought would separate churches in America, you realize how dumb it is once you're down to a couple churches.
And I asked him what Jesus, yeah, I asked him who Jesus was.
He repeated the beautiful Nicene Creed to me.
And I've never met this before, right?
And he speaks to Reading English, but he grew up there.
And we were standing next to the wall, obviously, that surrounds Bethlehem.
of bread.
And he said, he goes, this wall is not for me, but I totally get why Israel did this, right?
Like, I don't go and do these things to Israelis, right?
It's not me, right?
But, you know, I don't like this wall, but I totally get it.
That orientation towards truth and reconciliation, right?
And I, but, you know, you talk about some of the things that we suffer from here on like nice guyism and woke stuff within the church.
That doesn't exist in other countries, right?
Because they actually have real problems.
Like, wokeness and masculinity problems are like this, this, like, we're so bored that we need to like invent some crisis.
Boredom plus affluence equals wokeism.
Yes.
So, all right, I'm just curious on your own personal.
Choice in Response to God 00:04:50
You say you were a reformer, four or five-point Calvinist.
What do you believe?
So, so I would say I'm mostly three and a half to four.
I never go before three.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
So, total depravity, unconditional election, limited atonement, then you kind of draw the line.
No, no, I so you pick and choose.
Yeah, yeah.
So, I would say that the, I believe in perseverance.
I believe my one I kind of go back and forth on is irresistible grace.
Um, because just remind our audience what these mean again.
Yeah, yeah, so total depravity is that, like, you know, that you can't earn your way to God, more or less.
I can buy into that.
Yeah, unconditional election, that, you know, there's no condition for you to be chosen.
Limited atonement is the idea that Jesus died only for the people that are saved.
Irresistible grace, you can't resist God.
Perseverance of the saints, you can't lose your salvation.
So, I basically go back and my pastors are going to, my pastors are reformed.
So, they're all five.
Yeah, essentially.
So, so, but I love them to death and they love me.
So, and that's there.
That's Jesus right there.
So, I would go back and forth on irresistible grace because you see examples of it and you don't see examples of it.
He's kind of both and.
So, what do you mean?
Like, give me a biblical.
Like, for example, Paul, right?
So, Paul on the road gets literally blinded by Jesus and he can't resist.
But then you have examples in Exodus, obviously, the grace example where he hardened his heart towards the Lord, right?
And so Calvinists, full Calvinists, will kind of make up these theology things to try to explain that, like, corresponding things.
Well, you could also read, you could say that God hardened his heart, though.
Yeah.
So in the story, it's not that he had his heart hardened.
God hardened his heart.
But it appears both ways.
So in the Exodus story, it appears both ways.
No, that's correct.
Yeah.
So where it says, God did, he did, God did, he did, right?
And so what I tried to do with theology, like theological frameworks, because like Tulip is a, I believe was written by an Arminius, who actually wasn't written by Calvin.
And again, I would choose to go to a Reformed church over an Armenian church, like 100%.
But the irresistible side is that I try to submit the Bible to theological frameworks, not the theological frameworks into the Bible.
Right.
So do you believe that we have some agency or will?
Not when it comes to election.
I don't.
I believe that election is purely unconditional.
So God's already chosen who he wants to have.
Yes, because to live in eternity means that there is no past, present, or future.
It is.
So everyone that is in heaven is...
So we don't have a choice to accept Jesus.
I do not believe that.
Yes.
I believe that God chooses people.
Then why did he send Jesus?
Well, that was his choice.
Yeah.
Just because, just for fun?
No.
But it's not redemption, then it's selection.
No, he sent Jesus because someone needed to pay for the sins of Christianity.
Well, that's just metaphorical then, right?
No, there still is a justice element of Christ and God that has to be paid for.
Metaphorically.
These are all symbols at some point.
No, no, no, no.
That's not metaphorical.
If you're not actually accepting Jesus, you're just kind of just, you're just a robot, right?
No, So there's confliction there between like, do you have a choice, for example, to, I'll use this as a framework, to speed or not, right?
Like you have a choice there, right?
But there still is like a consequence whether or not you speed or not, right?
And so sin operates that same way, and I think choice operates the same way.
Like, God is a person.
Like, you have a choice to do something.
He has a choice to do something.
Like, just because...
He says we don't have a choice.
No, In terms of one category.
But there's multiple categories.
But how is it love if everyone's already been selected?
How is it love?
How is it loving if there's no voluntary agency to get closer to God?
Well, but again, but there's a difference between how you live out your faith and the moment of being elected.
Those are like not the same categories.
Right.
There's different categories of operation for God.
If God has a list of who he says is in heaven already, absent our own will.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Then there's not loving, then.
No, it is loving because if you believe in the first orientation to total depravity that you can't ever get to him anyways, then it is loving, right?
Well, I think we're totally depraved and only Christ can bring us out of it.
Because we do have agency, obviously.
Yes.
And that's where the irresistible grace comes into play.
I think that you still have a choice in how you respond to God.
But let me just make sure that you're not.
But not when it comes to love, therefore, if what you're saying is true, he's predestined people for hell.
Yes.
That's not a loving God.
It's a just God because God is both, those things, right?
Interesting.
Okay, Aaron Jin.
Thanks so much.
Appreciate it.
Thanks so much for listening, everybody.
Email us your thoughts as always.
Freedom at charliekirk.com.
Thanks so much for listening and God bless.
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