The More Trumped Up Charges, The More Strength with Rich Baris and Heather Mac Donald
Jack Smith may be planning even more charges for Donald Trump, but honest question: Who cares? Each "blow" for Trump only seems to leave him stronger. Rich Baris breaks down the state of the Republican race — to the extent it can even be called a race anymore. Plus, "When Race Trumps Merit" author Heather Mac Donald reacts to the Supreme Court's seismic ruling on affirmative action, and describes where conservatives should attack next to continue eradicating left-wing, anti-white racism from public life.Support the show: http://www.charliekirk.com/supportSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Rich Barris joins us for a latest polling update from the Republican primary.
And then Heather McDonald joins us to talk about affirmative action and when race trumps merit.
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Here we go.
Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.
Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campuses.
I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.
Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.
I want to thank Charlie.
He's an incredible guy.
His spirit, his love of this country, he's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created.
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I think one of the reasons I get so fired up about this cartel of criminals running our country, it'd be one thing if they were ethical, had their life together, didn't have grandchildren that they have estranged, and they're not even claiming.
These are bad people.
They're druggies.
They're freaks.
They have a terrible pattern of behavior.
In some ways, the policies that they are embracing are mirrored with their own incredibly damaged personal lives.
I could pick a random person, a random 10 people, Mesa, Arizona, Alpharetta, Georgia, and Kenosha, Wisconsin, and they would be far more normal and ethical in their personal life dealings than the scum that we have running our country.
I'm not even just saying the ideas are scum.
These are bad people.
They're bad.
I mean, I want you to think for a second.
If Donald Trump had a granddaughter that he wouldn't claim as his own, could you imagine the media outrage?
Let's just that one story that gets no coverage.
Joe Biden has a granddaughter in Arkansas that he pretends doesn't exist.
Hunter Biden has a daughter in Arkansas that he does not claim as his own.
These are sick, scummy people that deserve justice and punishment.
Not to mention the cocaine and the selling out of the country and the lying and the arrogance.
And Republic, some Republicans in D.C. still do deals with.
These are scumbags.
They're vermin in how they act.
And I don't say that lightly.
I don't like talking like this.
I don't say it.
You have to act pretty terribly to get to a threshold where I just think you are the scum of the earth, man.
Selling out the country for cash.
And Joe Biden, we've said this before.
He does not love Hunter.
He uses Hunter.
He uses Hunter's addiction.
He uses Hunter as the bagman for his own enrichment.
Joe Biden has a four-year-old grandchild he refuses to acknowledge the existence of.
He's never met her.
And he tells other people he has six grandkids.
He has seven.
And he boasts about how close he is with his relationship.
Again, Joe Biden is a scumbag.
This is demented, yet the New York Times enables it.
They claim Biden has cemented their family around their grandchildren.
That's not true.
He's abandoned one of them.
This mother wishes her daughter could meet her grandfather.
She tells her about how her grandfather is the president and takes her on tours of D.C.
She posts photo stories about her on Instagram.
Could you imagine how cruel these people have twisted?
Oh man, I got to be careful how I say this.
There's something really dark in the aura of Joe Biden.
Like really dark.
You know how evil you have to be?
Okay, you have six grandkids.
Your son did a bunch of blow and impregnated a prostitute or a stripper or whatever.
Welcome to the family.
It's not exactly like you have the most functional family ever, Joe Biden.
I hope for Joe Biden's sake, he comes in a real and legitimate conversion of Jesus Christ because at Judgment Day, he's going to need it.
This is a bad person.
He's an evil person.
Okay.
Rich Barris is with us.
Rich, welcome to the program.
Rich, seems, Joe, you know, let's just, Donald Trump facing 200 years in prison.
He's up 60 points in most polls.
What's going on here, Rich Barris?
You know, Charlie, this didn't deteriorate his position against Joe Biden at all.
I mean, which I got to be honest, you know, did I think at least it would be a temporary decline by some?
I think I did, although not a big one.
You know, there wasn't one during Billy Bush, but this is something totally different.
And I really think the American people get it.
They get it.
You know, it's not just us.
There have been a slew of other polls that show when we ask states, national, is this political?
Or is there something real here?
Is there something legitimate?
Majorities, big majorities think it's political.
And as long as that's the case, then he's not going to be damaged by this, Charlie.
And he appears to be the strongest candidate out there on the Republican side still.
Now, it's astonishing.
Even though he's been charged with more counts than mafia don't, it's incredible.
But I think people see that.
I saw the president last week.
He was in great spirits.
My advice to him privately is the same as publicly when he does end up being the nominee.
And we'll talk about the primary in a second.
He needs to be very forthright.
If I win, I'm pardoning myself day one.
There needs to be no mystery that he needs to create a referendum on the indictments.
And I think he can win 50 plus one on that, right?
It's going to take a slog, but if he actually has an opportunity to use the volitional force of the enemy to his own advantage, to jiu-jitsu the whole thing.
Do you agree with that, Rich?
Is there a window where he could say it is wrong to persecute Soviet-style the leader of the opposition party?
All transparency, everybody.
A vote for me is I'm pardoning myself day one.
He can't do that for what's probably going to be an indictment in Georgia and New York.
Rich Barris.
Yeah, I would agree with that because you can't give anything the media later than to latch on to to try to once again disrupt or delay or slow down or subvert his administration.
I would also just add to that that anybody who's been persecuted like me in support of their ideology is also going to be pardoned on federal charges.
So January 6th, prisoners who committed nonviolent offenses, whatever it may be, you know, something like that.
I would add to that.
I got a lot of flack for saying this when he was first indicted, but there have been instances, Charlie, and I used the Nelson Mandela example.
There have been V.B. Netanyahu, who ultimately wasn't jailed, but they came after him politically.
And sometimes that results in populations rallying behind.
Lula, whether you support him or not, was in jail.
The current Mexico president of Mexico right now had to deal with this.
Sometimes you turn people into like a Nelson Mandela-like figure.
And if you can seize that narrative, which I think he clearly did, again, it's pretty widely understood now, different polling consensuses that have been coming out.
This is not going over well with the American public.
No, look, it's a risk, right?
I mean, saying you're going to pardon yourself.
People say, that's Banana Republic stuff.
No, no, it's not.
Actually, you know what Banana Republic stuff is?
What you're doing to him.
So, Rich, let's talk about the primary.
I mean, I think Governor DeSantis is America's greatest governor.
I think he's done a great job in Florida.
I think he's running a terrible campaign.
Am I wrong?
It's one of the worst run campaigns I think I've ever seen.
And I do remember months ago we used these.
I came on the show and we were talking about the Scott Walker analogy.
This may even be worse, honestly.
The problem is, Charlie, you can go back to the mishandling of his statement to Tucker Carlson on Ukraine at the worst possible time.
And their pollster should have told them this instead of putting out polls that were way outside the mainstream for a narrative.
They should have been doing the right thing and telling their candidate.
Now the public is looking at you and you cannot mess up.
And by the way, it wasn't just him.
They were looking at other people running too.
They messed up at the worst possible time to mess up and have been messing up ever since.
It is amateur hour to over-promise and underperform.
Wait till the announcement.
Wait till the announcement.
And then it became a disaster of an announcement.
You just don't overhype expectations in politics.
That is a campaign 101 lesson.
You don't do that.
You made your announcement into a singular event that was going to shift the tide of the race 30 net points, and you overpromised and you underperformed.
And that's the worst thing you could do.
And it's just been one thing like that after another.
You can't afford that when, let's be real, he's not a personal, you know, how could I put he's not a great retail politician.
He's not.
He's not good at running around shaking hands.
He can't go to pizza stores in Cube, in Little Cube, and Miami-Dade.
He cannot go to the McDonald's in East Palestine and do what you see President Trump do at Pat's or yeah, at Pat's in Philadelphia.
It's very, very different, very different.
So you have to rely on campaign, you know, the techniques of how to win a campaign, and they failed him on that time and time again.
I mean, we are seeing in certain states Tennessee, Donald Trump has a 60-point lead in the Republican primary.
I mean, we've said this for a while.
There's going to be a billion dollars still spent on this primary.
What are we doing here, guys?
The more that people have actually run against Trump, he is opening his lead.
This is such a waste of time.
He's up 40 points in New Hampshire.
He's up 60 points in Nevada and in South Carolina.
Like, what is the path here, guys?
What is the best possible outcome?
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Rich, you had a thought, please.
Yeah, Charlie, you were just mentioning Tennessee and the path, right, for any other candidate not named Donald Trump.
This is where I really get into.
I'm a delegate nerd.
I'm, you know, I'm a polling nerd, a delegate nerd.
Tennessee is a, by the way, which is on March 5th, of course, before March 15th, is a winner-take-most hybrid system.
It has two thresholds.
One is the majority threshold, which is outlined in Rule 3-2.
Getting into all the California controversy with it CAGOP is just flat wrong.
But in any event, it has a two-thirds majority threshold, which even if Trump doesn't hit, it still has a minimum 20% threshold to even qualify for delegates.
As of right now, the poll you just were referring to, as of right now, nobody qualifies to earn a single delegate out of the 58 available in Tennessee except for Donald Trump.
So when it's, oh, and I'm looking at polling, I'm not just looking at the size of the lead.
I'm looking at what it means for the rules of these states.
On March 5th, there's a lot of states that mirror Tennessee, where Trump is dominant.
You have Massachusetts, where Trump is a 45-point lead, also a winner-take-all provisions, which he is polling at.
This money that's going to be spent in this primary, I've been saying this for months.
It is not true that contested and competitive primaries make for better general election candidates, not when a candidate is a known quantity, which is or an incumbent, which is why every president ever elected has used the full power of the White House to beat down primary opponents to rig the game.
So they don't have one that's a serious challenger.
Asked Gerald Ford, ask Jimmy Carter, ask Herbert Walker Bush.
They waste resources.
They also do something very crucial, which is legally expand the amount of time that an inevitable nominee has to wait before they can answer the attacks of the incumbent.
You legally can't do that until it's clinched and the nomination is done and wrapped up.
So this idea that somehow we're going to test Trump beyond what he's already been tested to make him a stronger candidate is not true even if candidates not named Donald Trump.
It's just not true.
Everyone in my business knows that.
And that is a crucial talking point we hear all the time.
It's fiction.
You will hurt the party.
You'll hurt their chances.
I know the game here is to get to a contested convention if possible.
Republicans must love to lose, Charlie.
I don't know how else to put it.
They must love to lose.
There's no other way.
No other explanation.
Maybe.
I think that there's this kind of other motive of this kind of, I'm going to be supported by a couple donors.
For example, Chris Christie is underwritten by Steve Cohen.
We don't know the super PAC numbers are, but we expect anywhere between $10 to $100 million.
Right.
And is there an element where they know they're going to lose, but they are kind of enjoying this because they're convinced they're on this kind of righteous path?
I mean, I get that sense from like Christie as if he's going to be accepted in polite society.
I'm not going to vote for Trump.
It's very ego-driven.
And because of the way that our campaign finance structure is, I'm not even saying it's bad.
It's just the way it is.
You could be kind of supported by two or three people or even one person on the outside.
Rich, these are not serious campaigns, though.
I mean, I will say Governor DeSantis, I think, wants to win the nomination.
I think Chris Christie is doing it for other reasons, for relevancy or for ego.
If we wanted to beat the Democrats, that is not the number one mission.
In fact, Chris Christie has said that.
He said, I will not vote for Donald Trump if he's the nominee.
Okay, so your number one mission is not to defeat the Democrats.
People say, Charlie, what is your political mission statement?
To beat these degenerate Marxists that are destroying the country I love.
Stealing To Survive In America00:08:21
Period.
I don't care if you don't like Trump.
He was a great president.
Get over it.
Christie doesn't feel that way.
One minute remaining rich.
You know, no matter what the motive is, you just hit the nail on the head.
The bottom line is the motive is not, or first and foremost, their mission is not to win and stop the Democrats' agenda.
So, you know, their mission is, I personally was slighted by Donald Trump.
There are many of those in there, right?
A lot of these influencers who feel like Trump didn't help them sell enough books or something when he was president.
And then you have others who are former advisors that are upset.
They didn't get meetings with him this time.
They're not going to have their hand in the cookie jar.
And then you have the donors, many of whom I think you're right, feel like they're just high society, Charlie, and they feel like this guy, they just can never connect with this guy because he does something that they never did, which is, you know, connect with the actual voter that they beg for support every two and four years.
And that doesn't come first in their mind, you know?
So to them, Joe Biden is, you know, is a better outcome.
And that's the reality.
You know, I look at Mike Pence and he's campaigning in Ukraine.
Not a joke.
He's in Ukraine, actively.
Yeah, he's actively campaigning in Ukraine.
And when is the Ukraine primary, by the way, Rich?
When is that on the calendar?
Might as well know.
They might as well get delegates at this point.
The Ukrainian primary has been moved up before Iowa.
Who will the voters in Kiev select?
Oh, yeah, they don't do elections anymore.
What a free country.
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Okay, in just a second, we'll be joined by one of my favorite guests, Heather McDonald.
She's terrific.
She is the author of When Race Trumps Merit, How the Pursuit of Equity Sacrifices Excellence, Destroys Beauty, and Threatens Lives.
We are in the process of connecting with her.
And I find that some people are afraid to tell the truth about these topics because they don't want to be called a racist.
It's the worst thing that you can be called in modern society.
You know, that's actually an interesting thing.
Would being called a racist or a rapist do more to hurt your career in modern America?
That would be a very interesting question.
I'm not saying that with any sarcasm.
I think being called a racist actually does more damage to your career than being a convicted rapist.
That's pretty sick, isn't it?
That you could rape somebody and you'd probably be better off than if you were labeled or deemed a racist.
Well, a lot of the toxicity around the branding of racism is hilarious because the actual policies that the quote-unquote anti-racists are pushing are anti-white, anti-Asian at its core.
Well, the challenging of affirmative action is a step in the right direction.
It doesn't go far enough at all.
In fact, the regime of anti-racism is still largely intact.
These colleges are now coming out what they call adversity scores.
So it's not diversity, it's adversity scores.
How much difficulty are you dealing with in your life?
Now, hilariously, if they design the adversity scores in a certain way, you're just going to get a bunch of trans white people going to college because they're the most.
And in the black community, they just don't have the same trans rates as, which is a largely suburban white idea pathogen.
I mean, there's still some in the black community, but nothing close to suburban America.
Suburbia is where the mind virus of trans nonsense is spreading at a great pace.
So if they have these adversity scores, so basically, if they have an adversity essay, tell us about your adversity.
You are incentivizing under this new regime, not race, but tell me why you are a victim.
Tell me why you should go to Harvard and complain.
That is the new regime that is being put into place.
That is fitting.
It fits the country that we're seeing.
Let's go to Cut 26.
Harlem residents are not finding out about an anti-racist bike lane.
Turns out black America doesn't want a bike lane.
Play Cut 26.
Recently, Joe Biden announced he's giving $8 million to Harlem for an anti-racist bike lane.
So how excited are the residents of Harlem?
A bike lane.
Wow.
Are you me?
A bike lane?
We have enough.
Haven't you always wanted a bike lane?
No.
No.
We have a bus lane that the bus is hardly used.
You know, I've been asked, Charlie, once the criminals start breaking into homes and you start seeing all this sort of widespread criminality, aren't liberals going to reach a breaking point?
And I respond and I say, you really don't understand how pathological these beliefs are.
I do not think people understand how hypnotized they are.
Here's a perfect example.
California liberal says that they have had their house and their car broken into twice.
This is such a left-wing, perverted, sick, and twisted view of crime, as if the criminal is the victim.
Listen to this.
Play cut 24.
Guess what happens when they can't steal stuff from Whole Foods anymore?
They're going to be breaking into your car, sir.
And you're not too brave.
They're going to be blasting.
Exactly.
I'm not upset over that.
You shouldn't be.
You should survive.
You should be.
You shouldn't be.
Saying that I had two break-ins in the last year.
I'm not upset over this because I know people need to survive.
Yeah, that's why they're breaking into homes, to survive.
You see, if you view everything through a victim lens, then you have to try to explain all the evil and the suffering.
They don't believe people are naturally bad or naturally fallen.
Instead, they have to explain it away.
And so they, therefore, it's the racism's fault.
It is the homophobia's fault.
It is the colonialism's fault.
It is the ism's fault, capitalism's fault.
And they need to survive.
It's not because they want more stuff.
They're stealing big screen TVs because they just want to eat.
They're stealing Louis Vuitton bags because you just got to earn a day's living.
Remember that story, the Lululemon workers?
I don't think we covered it.
Where the workers at Lululemon were fired because they called the police on the looters and the rioters.
We talk frequently about the Ten Commandments and thou shalt not steal.
I have a belief about this, that most of the other commandments are actually not except the ritual ones, which is honor your mother and father and the honor of the Sabbath, but murder, coveting, adultery, they're all forms of stealing.
Stealing somebody's wife, stealing somebody's stuff, stealing somebody's life.
So thou shalt not steal is the gateway drug to societal erosion and deterioration, period.
Race Trumps Merit Analysis00:03:33
It seems as if the people in charge of our society have really completely, they don't care because if you steal, you're doing it out of necessity.
You just have to live.
You have to survive.
Instead of saying, no, you're stealing because you're a criminal, because you have not been taught goodness and you must stop it, and we are going to punish you.
Okay, I think we have Heather McDonald.
So I encourage people to check out Heather's book, When Race Trumps Merit.
So, Heather, let's dive right into it.
Just how strong was affirmative action before this ruling?
And how much better was it to be Black than Asian if you applied to go into Harvard?
Racial preferences were absolutely ubiquitous in this country, in colleges.
They gave Blacks advantages over whites and Asians that were enormous.
Blacks were routinely being admitted with test scores and GPAs that would be automatically disqualifying if presented by a white or Asian student.
At Harvard, the school itself determined in 2013 that if it used simple academic merit for admission, raceblind, colorblind, its share of the black student undergraduate population would drop from 10% to less than 1%.
So basically, 100% of Harvard's admits were there thanks to racial preferences.
They would not have gotten in under a pure academic skills test.
And Asians had to be multiple times better to even be considered by Harvard and were up against insuperable odds, which they kept beating.
The thing about Asians, you raise the bar for them and they say, okay, we'll standard, you know, and then we raise it higher and they keep meeting it.
Why?
Because they have a culture that is incessantly, obsessively focused on academic achievement.
Yeah, that would be an interesting, that's the buried lead.
How affirmative action made Asians even more pathological about getting good grades.
That's something.
And it really is a cultural thing.
So let's just go through the gap specifically, though.
So if the SAT is out of 1600, what score did an Asian need versus an average Black person?
Well, the Asian average nationally is about 1,300.
The average Black, this is on a 1,600 point scale.
The average Black is about 950.
It's really more the analyses were done by determining deciles of Harvard's admits.
And Asians in the top 10th of all admission criteria were admitted at maybe like a 40% rate if they had perfect SATs, perfect GPAs, perfect recommendations.
There were very few, almost no blacks in those top academic deciles, but they would have basically a 90% admission rate.
And as you went down to lower and lower tranches of academic qualifications, the possibility of admission for Asians were basically foreclosed, whereas blacks were still looking at maybe a 50% chance of admission.
Geez.
The book is When Race Trumps Merit.
Supreme Court Admissions Decision00:06:57
We're going to talk more with Heather McDonald after the break.
This is a consequential Supreme Court decision.
It's a move in the right direction.
I'll be curious, Heather's reaction, if it goes far enough.
And I'm sure she will agree, there is a lot more work to do, especially in federal hiring practices, of this vile, racist, bigoted, and quite honestly, broken system of trying to care about skin color and not on meritocracy.
Just the reaction from Joy Reed and Michelle Obama tells the entire story.
Hey, everybody, Charlie Kirk here.
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Heather, how would you grade the Supreme Court opinion, A, B, C, D, or F?
Well, I agree with you, Charlie.
It did not go nearly far enough.
I would say it's maybe a B minus because it did not throw out the embarrassing, creaky jurisprudence of equal protection, which is just a blot on the Supreme Court's claim to rationality.
And it left open a very large loophole for colleges to continue their racially apartheid admissions processes by saying that, well, if a student talks about how his race affected his life experiences, of course, colleges can take that into account in their admissions decision.
Well, that validates the practice that's already going on under this specious claim of so-called holistic admissions, which is what colleges say: oh, we're not doing outright racial quotas.
We're just looking very individually at every applicant and making sure that we take into account the vast wonderfulness and kaleidoscope of his life experiences.
So, guess what's going to happen?
An already thriving college admissions consulting racket that tells students how to write college essays to play up their alleged victimhood is just going to get even more robust and vibrant as black kids are taught.
Make sure that the first thing in your college admissions essay is to say, I'm black, and this has, of course, resulted in enormous hardship for me.
And, Charlie, if I can just say, you know, the fallacy of the left, you talk about the Democratic response, Biden response at Obama, whatever.
The fallacy of this is to say, oh, this ruling destroys opportunity for black students.
No, it doesn't.
The same number of blacks will go to college as before.
They'll just go to colleges for which they're academically matched.
But we have been taught to believe that a black student not getting into a college because his test scores are too low is the equivalent of a black student not getting into a college because the color of his skin.
We're conflating the two.
So, any you know, any neutral standard that has a disparate impact on minorities, above all, blacks, simply because their skill levels are too low, now in our disparate impact world gets immediately translated into an act of racism.
And that is the fundamental lie that you're combating that I'm combating.
Yes, and Thomas Sowell wrote discrimination and disparities, and he tackled it, I think, as effectively as anybody else.
There are other explanations besides racism of why certain groups might be performing better than others.
Hundreds of other possible explanations if they would dare look into the data.
So, Heather, where does this leave us then?
They're not going to stop.
The regime of anti-racism is still in the civil service, the bureaucracies, and corporate America.
This Supreme Court ruling might slow down admissions, but they're going to do affirmative action by other means, as adversity score, as you mentioned.
So, where does this leave us?
This is far from the end of the cancer, the poison of affirmative action.
Well, there are some policy changes that a Republican president could do if he gets in office.
He could try to extirpate the disparate impact standard throughout the code of federal regulations statutes, you know, pressuring Congress to take it out.
For God's sakes, take it out of the science agencies, because as you say, Charlie, we do not want doctors who have been promoted throughout medical school and into their professional lives based on race, not competence.
This thing is real.
It is serious.
But I believe, Charlie, that the equally important to the little policy tweaks is to combat the narrative, which holds that any disparity in representation in any institution is by definition the product of racism.
We have to get honest about talking about skills gaps and behavior gaps.
And cultural gaps as well.
I mean, and this is just, I mean, I said this to a group of blacks who called, you know, they were upset at me.
And I said, let's just be honest.
In the black community or the Asian community, who takes homework more seriously?
Let's just be honest.
I'm not saying that's bad or good.
Well, I actually think it's good that Asians do.
And of course they do.
It's not even a question, right, Heather?
In Asian communities, they take homework and being studious more seriously than in your typical black family, because in the black family, you don't have fathers around half the time, well, 70% of the time.
Heather, we're out of time.
Just talk about your book, 30 seconds.
Just plug your book, please.
Well, if you want the facts to fight back against the racism narrative that is threatening our civilization, as I say, it is all coming down.
As long as racism is the only allowable explanation for racial disparity, this book gives you the facts to fight back.
That is so powerful.
As long as racism is the only allowable explanation for racial disparities, we're going to be in a tough spot.
Heather McDonald's, one of the most courageous scholars of our time.
When race trumps merit, check it out.
Thank you so much, Heather.
Thank you, Charlie.
Thanks so much for listening, everybody.
Email us your thoughts.
As always, freedom at charliekirk.com.
Thanks so much for listening, and God bless.
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