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June 15, 2023 - The Charlie Kirk Show
34:22
The People’s President vs the Pupeteers with JD Vance and Jason Chaffetz
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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Government Run By Puppeteers 00:13:03
Hey everybody, down at Charlie Kirk Show.
What form of government is going to define our future?
It's a great question.
Jason Schaffetz has a new book, The Puppeteers, that makes an argument that they want to make elections irrelevant with a permanent administrative state.
Then we have JD Vance, who I think hits it perfectly as well, senator from the great state of Ohio.
He's doing a wonderful job.
And then I elaborate on that towards the end of the episode.
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Here we go.
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With us now is Jason Schaffetz, author of an important new book, The Puppeteers, the People Who Control the People Who Control America, a very important topic.
Jason, welcome to the program.
Hey, thanks for having me, Charlie.
So, Jason, tell us about the book.
Why did you write it?
And who are the puppeteers?
Wrote it because oftentimes the people in Congress, they're fighting the wrong fights.
The puppeteers, they're the ones that control the people who control what's going on in D.C.
And not only is it the administrative bureaucratic state, but I got to tell you, there are people all over the place that are in positions of power that, you know, they can use their resources, they can use their money, their power, their influence.
And we're talking, we do, we name names and we show the money.
Everybody from Brian Deese and Susan Rice and BlackRock and what they're doing to the state treasurers, Randy Weingarten at the teachers union, they have much more of an effect on education in this country than the Secretary of Education.
Yeah, that's exactly right.
And so, you know, people are unclear about how all this came to be.
I want to get into that, but let's talk about one of them in particular, which is this administrative state, right?
So the question is this.
Does the president control the government or does the government control the president?
Jason, which one is truer in today's time?
A quick story I tell about in the book about the B team, where members of Congress, a member of Congress goes to meet with a cabinet secretary.
Cabinet Secretary is not there.
And so what they do is the senior staff says, oh, we can meet with you.
And the member of Congress is mad about it.
Says, I'm not going to meet with you.
I'm not going to meet with the B team.
I want to meet with the cabinet secretary.
And finally, the senior staff says to the member of Congress, we be here before you.
We be here after you.
We be the ones that make the decisions.
You be meeting with the right people.
And let's also understand that if you follow the money, we had this debt ceiling discussion, right?
We were talking about less than 10% of the budget.
You know, more than 75% of the budget is mandatory programmatic spending.
It's not just Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security.
It's hundreds of other programs.
They're on autopilot.
Congress never touches them.
In fact, we talk about the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau that was set up with the Obama administration, not funded by Congress, not accountable to Congress.
Guess who was accountable to?
It was set up so that it was administered by the Federal Reserve, bypassing Congress, bypassing the American people and no accountability.
Nobody elected over there.
It's a really important book because it attempts to try to answer the question of ultimate sovereignty.
Who are the sovereign?
Are the people the sovereign?
Or is there some sort of a shadow, mysterious class that is calling the shots?
And the administrative state is obviously front and center in everyone's mind because we have this Department of Justice that basically wants to tell you how an election should go without you, the people, being able to vote.
I'm going to go in.
We're going to indict Trump.
It doesn't matter if he's running for president.
And so let's just go through some of the lists.
Who do you think, if you had to say, what are the Mount Rushmore of puppeteers?
Who are the top ones, right?
Let's name names.
Is it Barack Obama?
Is it George Soros?
Who are the puppet masters of the current regime?
I would go with Larry Fink right out of the shoots, the one who runs BlackRock.
If you look at the S ⁇ P 500, BlackRock owns at least 5% of 98.5% of those companies.
When Larry Kudlow was the economic advisor for President Trump, he had decades of economic experience.
Well, guess what happened?
When Joe Biden comes into play, they put in Brian Dees.
Brian Dees was a BlackRock employee.
He's a climate activist.
He had nothing.
He didn't want to better the economy.
He wanted to empower stakeholders, not get the best return on investment for retirees and whatnot.
The other one I put up there, the state treasurers.
It's sleepy races that nobody talks about.
Well, that's interesting.
But the state, if you look at the document, we got our hands on a document that I probably wasn't supposed to see.
The state Democratic treasurers, they call it the corporate benefits package.
And if you pay $50,000 or $100,000, you can sit with your state treasurer.
It just so happens if you add up the tally of what the state treasurers control that are controlled by Democrats, it's $2.5 trillion.
That's a lot of money in anybody's world.
And they say, it doesn't matter who you elect the president or in Congress.
We're going to use our proxy voting.
We're going to use retirees' money, the 401k money, and we're going to change and put in place what we want on climate change, DEI, ESG.
This is how we're going to troll.
And that's where the Democrats fight the fight, right?
That's where they go into these sleepy races.
This is so interesting.
So we have public policy that is being removed from the typical channels that the founders envisioned, which is the people elect representatives.
But now we have all these other extra governmental power centers, both inside and outside government.
You just identified one.
So state treasurers.
So I don't know, the state treasurer of California, right, would CalPERS, which is what, a couple trillion dollars?
Is it that much?
It's a ton, right?
Well, they control about $750 billion that's flowing through.
And that's the retiree program.
That's the teachers' retiree programs.
That doesn't even count some of those other programs that you're talking about, Charlie.
The numbers are off the charts.
And so, again, you got to peel it back and follow the flow of money.
And then I see Republicans in Congress, of which I used to be one, fighting over these bills that are going nowhere and don't actually change the trajectory.
Democrats want to put the economy and the government on autopilot.
So they're not, you know, these elections don't really matter as much to them.
That's what they want to do.
No, that's exactly right.
They want elections to be personality contests and performative, where the actual decision-making process is permanent by an immovable philosopher king class.
I think you've identified this perfectly, Jason.
So let's just go back into the history of this.
And it's okay if it's a mixture of both.
What came first?
Did government get too big and then that empowered crony interests to then be untouchable?
Or was it an untouchable crony interest class that then increased government control?
Like, just go through the history of how we became a country run by puppeteers, not by the people.
I really see the difference when Barack Obama came in office.
He was so savvy that the Democrats recognized that they needed to change the trajectory of how we do elections.
That's why Nancy Pelosi, who became so, so potent in what she did, put out HR1.
She wanted to change elections.
If you look at what Joe Biden then followed up and did with his executive order 14019 to get out the vote, that, you know, it sounds nice.
Hey, let's all get out the vote.
But using federal assets, federal people, federal money, and then is now claiming executive privilege.
So we can't see what he's doing.
But basically, he's leveraging physical facilities and 2.2 million federal employees to get out the vote.
When they recognize that they could actually get away with that and get around some of the other laws that were on the books, then they really went to town.
So I would argue that government got too big.
And that probably happened first.
But then the administrative bureaucratic state said, hey, we want to continue on in perpetuity.
We got to change the rules.
So I think that happened second.
And now, I mean, look at us.
We're $6 trillion a year.
We're $36 trillion in debt.
We pay more than $2 billion a day just in interest on that national debt.
And we're beholden to China and everybody else, this is all on purpose.
They put it together a game plan and they're executing on it.
Yeah, the state is immovable and it is.
You got to starve the beast.
You have to starve the beast.
If you don't starve the beast, you never solve this problem.
Jason Chaffetz is author of the book, The Puppeteers, The People Who Control, the People Who Control America.
It's a very deep topic, really smart.
The goal is to put the American government on autopilot and prevent election results from threatening their agenda.
Yes, yes, and yes.
They want elections to be irrelevant.
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So, Jason, I want to talk more about the book.
State Solutions To Federal Overreach 00:02:54
What do you think are the solutions to these issues?
So, the solutions are really found at the states.
First of all, you got to starve the beast, okay?
Congress, if they're going to do their job, they got to starve the beast.
And they got to take on the mandatory programmatic spending.
I understand Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security, but there are hundreds of other programs that are on that automatic programmatic spending category that never get touched by Congress.
And they only debate about 10% of them.
But the second thing is, you really have to do things at the states.
State treasurers, state attorneys general, they have the power to actually do a lot of these things, enforce the issues.
And so, federalism is still the issue.
It is still the way that you can actually solve this problem.
The state attorneys general could be yanking people up, they could be making the changes, and the states can say no to what these feds are trying to do.
Yeah, the states really are the solution.
I agree with that.
And, you know, you look at some of the actors that are in play.
It's very obvious that John Fetterman's not in charge, obviously, and Joe Biden is not in charge.
Are there any other faces or aspects to the puppeteering class that you think deserve attention that we haven't spoken about already?
So, in the Puppeteers book, I talk about how they need racism.
They don't survive without racism.
And, you know, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, the Department of Justice, said that white supremacy is the number one threat to the United States of America.
Number one, really?
I mean, we point out how they do the statistics, what statistics they look at.
If there's some, you know, white supremacy that's going on that demands law enforcement, hey, go do that.
But it's not really the number one thing out there.
There's a reason why the Southern Poverty Law Center and these others try to target these groups because then it justifies them to use police powers.
Like facial recognition is one thing I talk about.
I held hearings about this when I was in Congress.
The FBI, despite the law, and I want to be clear about that, despite the law, has been collecting Americans' facial recognition for a long time now.
And when you go to get your driver's license, why should a 16-year-old suddenly be in the FBI database?
I mean, there's a reason why we don't collect your DNA and your fingerprints when you're born, because that would be wholly intrusive and absolutely fundamentally wrong.
But the FBI is getting around that.
They want to be able to see where you go, what you've done.
Do you go to a cancer clinic?
Do you go to a bar?
Do you go to a particular college?
Do you go to a political rally?
The Federal Bureau of Investigation, FBI, is tracking that.
And as a suspicionless American, that should not be.
Jason Chaffetz is the author of the important new book, The Puppeteers.
Jason, congratulations and come back soon.
Protecting Patients From Harmful Care 00:02:30
Thanks so much.
Thank you.
I found this article.
I read the journal.
This is a, I love, my favorite part of the Wall Street Journal actually is the community notes or letters to the editor.
And here's this doctor from Ohio, Kent, Ohio, Dr. Jason Kolb, who in four paragraphs challenges the trans alarmism better than anybody.
Let me just read this one thing here.
It's amazing.
Patients with gender dysphoria are suffering and to be treated with compassion and dignity.
But as physicians, we would never prescribe weight loss pills for patients with anorexia or refer them for weight loss surgery.
So why are so many in support of medications and surgery to treat patients with gender dysphoria?
Both conditions are distortions of body image, fear of being labeled transphobic, incomplete understanding of the risks and permanence of such treatments and misinformation about the benefits are likely the reason.
It is time to take seriously our promise to do no harm when it comes to patients with gender dysphoria.
Dr. Kolb from Kent, Ohio, one of the clearest little pieces I've seen from a doctor in quite some time.
I'm glad the journal published it.
Alarmism hurts children with gender dysphoria.
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Trump Documents And Conservative Truth 00:15:02
Let's play some tape here just to kind of give some idea of what is going on with the reaction to Trump.
Let's go to Cut 48, Rachel Maddow.
We knew heading into this that he was planning to make these remarks.
We are prepared for his pre-fundraiser remarks tonight to again be essentially a Trump campaign speech.
Because of that, we do not intend to carry these remarks live.
As we have said before in these circumstances, there is a cost to us as a news organization to knowingly broadcast untrue things.
We are here to bring you the news.
It hurts our ability to do that if we live broadcast what we fully expect in advance to be a litany of lies and false accusations, no matter who says them.
And I do not say this with any glee.
We are the ministry of truth and lies will not be tolerated.
Rachel Maddow proclaims from the Pullet Bureau.
They believe they should be the gatekeepers of truth.
This is a common theme, everybody.
And the more you recognize and realize the philosophy of the contagion that came into power with Woodrow Wilson versus the promise of the founder, do you believe the people should be able to have information, the people to be able to make decisions?
Or do you want a council of experts, unelected experts, that get to decide for you what is best for you?
A Pulit Bureau of committees, a ruling of administration of whether or not you have to take a vaccine, of what food you get to eat, of are they actually your kids?
Rachel Maddow believes the same thing where she says, yeah, we're not going to let you view this.
PBS, when it gets, when Donald Trump is speaking, has disclaimers on the bottom as if we're listening to Saddam Hussein.
Play Cut 40, Jake Tapper believes the same thing, play cut 40.
We do have now some of the sound, as I told you, we're not, and the audience, we're not carrying his remarks live because frankly, he says a lot of things that are not true and sometimes potentially dangerous.
Says CNN.
Yeah, the number one peddler of the Russia hoax.
For years, he's telling us, if there was anyone that should be censored for peddling disinformation, it should be CNN.
Anybody.
They're deploying their surrogates all over cable television to try to make sense of this.
Andrew McCabe says, look, that Hillary Clinton and Trump, they're two separate cases, play cut 30.
And these two cases could not be more different on the facts.
Yes, Hillary Clinton maintained private servers.
Emails went across those servers.
Ultimately, she returned 30,000 emails to the Department of Defense, work-related emails.
Now, it's important to remember, those weren't classified documents.
That was simply the content of email exchanges that was later deemed to be classified.
Hold on a second, Andrew McCabe.
First of all, you're lucky you're not in jail.
And you're lucky you still have a pension.
Andrew McCabe was number two under James Comey.
He was very nervous for a while.
He should be in jail.
He is a cockroach.
He's a scum rat.
Some of those emails were marked with C for classified.
That's number one.
Number two, what do you mean that the government got them all back?
She bleached emails and destroyed devices.
Well, she had her lawyer do that.
Number three, she was Secretary of State.
She did not have declassification ability.
The president of the United States has full declassification ability.
Secretary of State doesn't have that.
And she set up this private server and this whole conduit.
Not to mention the crux of the Trump indictment has several layers to it.
It's a 50-50 chance on the Presidential Records Act.
And if he has a good legal team, I think he'll be okay.
The bigger issue that he's going to, and again, they overcharged for a reason, obviously, throw everything against the walls, 206, is the obstruction of justice issue, is the process issue.
Even though justice was not obstructed and they got all their documents back, even though Donald Trump wasn't selling these documents to the Saudis or the Iranians or faxing them to the Kremlin in exchange for wire transfers, of which is the essence of the Espionage Act.
Like, hey, you've classified information, you give it to the enemy for cash, money, favor, or to hate your country, then, okay, that's what the Espionage Act was supposed to be there for, antiquated law, not applied equally.
Instead, the government gets all their documents back.
But the issue that Donald Trump, President Trump, is going to have to fight more than any other issue is the obstruction issue.
That one's going to be tough because when the government, when the government alleges that, the standard is very, very subjective.
They're allegedly saying obstruction based on things he said privately to his lawyers.
That alone should be dismissed, that they can lift the attorney-client veil.
Hey, if we were able to lift the attorney client veil of Andrew McCabe talking to his lawyers or James Comey talking to his lawyers or Hillary Clinton talking to her lawyers, what would we get?
Well, joining us now is Senator JD Vance.
Feels good to be able to say that.
Senator, you made some news yesterday about holding up nominees.
Tell us about it.
Yeah, the basic idea, Charlie, is that Merrick Garland is using the political appointments of the Department of Justice as foot soldiers in a war of politics instead of a law enforcement agency.
That's exactly what he's turned the Department of Justice into.
And so what we've decided to do is use the authority that the people of Ohio gave me as a United States Senator and use that to gum up the works a little bit and to say to Merrick Garland that we're going to hold the nominations that you have to the Department of Justice until you commit your agency to the job of law enforcement and criminal prosecution, not of politics.
That's something we're able to do.
That's an action that I felt was important to take.
And I've heard it from a lot of people, Charlie.
They're sick of us just complaining about this problem.
They want us to take action.
They recognize we can't stop everything.
We can't stop every nominee, but we can at least make it a little bit harder for Merrick Garland to use the government agencies to go after his political opponents.
That's exactly what we're trying to do.
Charlie, I heard some of your commentary sort of in the lead into this.
And I just want to echo something that sort of I think is getting missed in a lot of the conservative commentary on this particular indictment.
There's a whole lot of argument that, yes, Joe Biden and Hillary Clinton committed the same alleged wrongdoing as Donald Trump.
I think that grants way too much to the other side's argument here.
They did not do the same thing that Donald Trump did because they didn't have declassification authority.
The fundamental issue here, Charlie, is who controls the documents that's produced by our government?
Who controls the information that flows through the executive department of our government?
Is it the permanent unelected bureaucracy or is it the people's elected president?
Because if it's not the people's elected president, Article 2 of the Constitution is meaningless, and we do not have a real Republican form of government.
We have an oligarchy controlled by the deep state.
That is the real issue with this case.
The deep state is jealously guarding its own documents.
When those documents don't belong to them, they don't belong to anybody except for the American people through their elected president.
This is the best point, and this is how much I've missed Tucker.
I mean, it's just when you see an expert, you see an expert.
So Tucker last night has, you know, I do this for a living and I'm still learning how to do it.
And when I listen to Tucker, I say, oh, my goodness, how did I not think about that?
Right.
Because he just makes the points that are so obvious where Tucker broadens it.
He says, everything's classified in D.C. Like, of course, right?
I mean, memos about Flag Day or Arbor Day, they overclassify everything because they do believe in a secret gnosis or a secret knowledge or a secret cabal.
And then they're able to broaden those statutes to, of course, not enforce the classified document mishandling against their friends.
But if anybody they don't like comes in contact with the document, then of course Tucker goes on with this brilliant point.
You're trying to tell me Dick Cheney, you know, at Thanksgiving dinner wasn't talking about D. Of course he was.
I mean, you're trying to tell me that on his way to or from work, Bill Barr wasn't reading documents in the car.
These are all violations of the Espionage Act.
JD Vance, I think Tucker made the most important point, which is the essence of the thing, is that how dare you challenge the permanent administrative state?
That's exactly what's going on here, Charlie.
And let's take this from the level of abstraction to sort of just throw out a hypothetical.
Let's say that there are documents that show conclusively the role of the deep state in the Russia collusion hoax, which of course tried to take down the presidency of Donald Trump, had our entire government and media complex obsessed with a totally fake issue for a couple of years instead of solving the American people's problems.
What those documents might show is one, the exoneration of Donald Trump, but two, the deep corruption of our own administrative state.
Who do you want to control those documents?
The very people whose conduct they impugn, whose conduct they show was illegal?
Or do you want the elected president to be able to stay to hold on to this stuff, to take it back to his house after he leaves office and to make a political issue out of it?
The craziest thing here, Charlie, is: look, you know, I'm a Trump guy.
I know you support the president.
If you don't think Trump should have taken those documents, fine.
Make that argument, substantively criticize him, encourage people to vote against him.
You don't throw the Article II president in prison for doing something that he's constitutionally empowered to do.
It's nuts.
Yes, and it is about the question of who is the sovereign.
This is a constitutional question.
This is a moral question.
It's not about Donald Trump.
It's not about his tweets.
This is a big picture.
Is the framework that was fought over and articulated in 1787 at the Constitutional Convention still valid?
And by the way, we're long overdue for that answer to that question because we've largely been living in a post-constitutional republic.
And now this is the fork in the road.
This is the question: does the administrative state run the country or do the people run the country?
Does the president run the government or does the government run the president?
And we shall see.
Senator Vance, I wish we had more time.
One final thought, please.
I just say, look, the founders created a powerful president of the United States, a president limited, of course, by certain things in the Constitution, limited in his power to declare war, limited in his power to levy taxes.
We didn't want a dictator or a king, but they wanted a robust sovereign at the head of the federal government.
What the deep state is trying to do is destroy the people's elected presidency, not just for Donald Trump or his voters, but for all time.
If we don't stop this, Charlie, if we allow him to go to prison for declassifying documents, we're talking about paperwork here.
We're going to throw Donald Trump in jail for that.
If we allow that to happen, we have the end of the Constitutional Republic in this country.
They want to go more towards a parliamentarian system where the president is an attaché to the deep state, not a representative to the people.
It's a huge philosophical difference.
And you're actually one of the few people that get it, Senator Vance.
Keep fighting.
JD Vance, thank you so much.
Thanks, Prom.
The question of it really goes down to who is in charge.
And one of the reasons why they hate Donald Trump is that the ordinary person has a greater say in the business and the inner workings of our government than ever before, especially when it comes to challenging the neoliberal, neoconservative regime.
Tucker Carlson pinpointed this perfectly in his latest video, which I think was his best video.
It's play cut 45 of a short piece of tape of Tucker.
Boy, his voice totally needed 75 million views so far.
Play Cut 45.
Whatever else you say about him, Trump is the one guy with an actual shot at becoming president who dissents from Washington's long-standing pointless war agenda.
And for that, that one fact, they're trying to take Trump out before you can vote for him.
And that should upset me more than anything that's happened in American politics in your lifetime.
They want to take him out before you have an opportunity to vote.
Woodrow Wilson is the father of this belief.
Remember, he said, voting allows ourselves to believe in too much error.
In fact, Woodrow Wilson said, I want to get the exact quote here: government is not a machine.
It is a living thing.
No living thing can have its organs set against one another.
For its checks and balances, it must instead live.
The error of trying to do too much by vote.
Think about that.
An American president saying that we're trying to do too much by vote, that these elections give people too much power?
That's exactly what is going on here.
It is precisely what is going on.
You have bureaucrats, which literally means desk workers in the original French.
They want elections to become irrelevant.
They don't want elections to be referendums.
And it's hilarious, they do this all under the guise of democracy.
They want a permanent administrative decision-making class.
They want more Anthony Fauci's and less Donald Trump's.
They want less representative government and more administrative government.
It's a different form of government.
This is not even right versus left.
This is a question of what type of system do you want?
That is the question that is currently unfolding with the indictment of Donald Trump.
What sort of system do we have?
A system that the founders put forward in 1787 and ratified in the Bill of Rights in 1791 was bottom-up, not top-down.
It was that the people are sovereign, that states created the federal government.
But the irresistible temptation to grow the fourth branch of government, decade after decade, became irresistible.
Woodrow Wilson started it.
FDR massively expanded the federal government.
Lyndon Baines Johnson further expanded it.
Even Nixon expanded it.
Carter expanded it.
Reagan, I think, was overrated in his ability to reign in government, but he tried his best.
Too Much Listening Not Enough Voting 00:00:50
He said the right things.
He was a great president that unfortunately couldn't reign in the beast.
H.W. Bush didn't even try.
Government grew like crazy.
Clinton barely did a poor job.
Bush expanded government tremendously.
Obama expanded government tremendously.
And Trump for four years tried his best, but the Leviathan struck back.
And we are part of that 105, 106-year slide.
And it all reaches this crescendo point.
Do we do too much by vote or not enough by vote?
Is it the people or is it the deep state bureaucrats?
Should we have things by selections or elections?
These are the questions in front of us.
Thanks so much for listening, everybody.
Email us your thoughts as always freedom at charliekirk.com.
Thanks so much for listening, and God bless.
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