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April 1, 2023 - The Charlie Kirk Show
36:20
Donald Trump, GOP Martyr? with Donald Trump Jr. and Michael Malice
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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Unifying Cry and Debate 00:10:47
Hey, everybody.
Today at the Charlie Kirk Show, Michael Malas joins the program.
We have a little bit of a debate.
It's fun.
I wasn't totally thrilled with how he handled part of it.
It was kind of interesting.
We were doing a long show and kind of like a unifying cry, and then I wasn't really in a place to debate, but we got there and it was fine.
And then Don Jr. starts us off.
And Don talks about his father being indicted and how that has changed our country.
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Buckle up, everybody.
Here we go.
Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.
Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campuses.
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Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.
I want to thank Charlie.
He's an incredible guy.
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You should be angry today.
And this is a time for action.
And this is a time to realize that the country we love has slipped away and we have to get it back.
Joining us now is Donald Trump Jr.
He has a great show on Rumble.
Rumble's doing very well.
As a side note to all that, all of you should download the Rumble app, but we're not here to talk about that today.
Don, your father was indicted yesterday.
Your immediate reaction.
I mean, you know, Charlie, we've been doing this for a long time, and you and I have spent a lot of time together fighting for an America.
I thought we still, even us, even, you know, even in the midst of all of it, still believed that it existed.
But apparently, that America is actually much further gone than we probably ever envisioned.
And that's, you know, as witnessed by what we just saw over the last 24 hours.
I mean, the state going after their political enemies is the sort of stuff that would make Putin blush.
And yet it's happening here.
You know, the people who are screaming about Ukraine and wanting to jail Putin, there's some irony that we're doing that here in our own country right now.
And the fact that that irony is totally lost on the machine, you know, our mainstream media, big tech, the social enterprises that we are literally up against.
And I think, you know, perhaps the only thing that is is good because people will finally see it for what it is.
The amount of people that I'm seeing reaching out to me that don't follow politics, that are like, hey, I don't care.
We just need the guy that's going to blow up the system.
And unfortunately, everyone only knows there's only one guy that's actually going to do that.
I think we've been led to believe over the last few months that there are others.
But I think the last two, three weeks has sort of proven that they're just beholden to their donors and same part of the establishment of the two-party system that pretends they're against each other and adversarial.
But really, when it comes down to it, it's a uni party.
So, Don, what is your reaction to some of these weak Republican responses, Asa Hutchinson and many others?
What is your response to the Republican Party that is groveling while we see the destruction of the rule of law, the targeting of a former president, and the turning of a chapter into America and into an America that is not free and is not just?
What is your reaction to that?
Well, listen, we just, we can't elect anyone like this ever again.
I mean, this is why we are in the position that we're in because they continuously and constantly bend their knee.
They cave in, you know, whatever it may be, whatever whim of the radical left.
We see that in the uh in the trains movement these days where they're going, they're victim blaming innocent children gunned down in cold blood by a sociopath.
And that's not a hate crime, but if you're a concerned parent who goes to a teacher's PTA meeting not wanting your children to be indoctrinated, you're a domestic terrorist, but this instance of the excuses that it never ends.
I mean, it feels like it's off topic, but it's not because it's so extreme.
And we have example after example of this where our quote-unquote leadership just bends the knee to the other side because it's an easy existence in Washington, D.C. to be a weak Republican.
You know, you get invited to the cool person party.
You can tell your constituency in a small room of five people when you're at home exactly what they want to hear.
But as long as they know that you're going to bend the knee, that you're going to fold when it actually matters, when the things that actually mean something to us and their constituency, if you're going to fold, hey, you can have an easy existence.
We want weak Republicans.
And whether it's Asa Hutchinson and honestly, some people that we thought were probably reasonably strong until about a week or two ago, I think are being exposed for the weaklings that they actually are.
You know, bowing to the establishment, bowing to the sort of Bush Republicans and the Karl Roe Republicans, and most importantly, bowing to the money because they need it.
And that money is not aligned with the real MAGA movement.
Don, you tweeted, not a single person that visited Epstein Island was indicted over other than G Maxwell, who seems to be serving a 25-year sentence for sex trafficking minors to no one.
Dot, dot, dot.
But they'll indict Trump over a campaign finance violation past the statute limitations that even the feds, who spent seven years trying to jail my father, passed on it because it's nonsense.
Let that sink in for a minute.
Don, there's Republican AGs and DAs that seem to be doing absolutely nothing against the Democrat crime cartel, Epstein, BLM, CCP.
Don, is it time for Republicans to grow a spine and say, you know what?
You indict Trump, then we're going to go after the criminal enterprise of BLM.
We're going to at least investigate George Soros.
Is it now time, Don?
Liz, I think it's long past that time, Charlie.
I mean, this isn't the first time I've been saying this.
I mean, I've been talking to sort of look at the disparity between what they've tried to do to me.
Just me.
Like, I'm not a political candidate, never have been, never even put my toe in the thing, but I've just fought for what I believe in.
And say Hunter Biden, who's managed to make literally tens of millions of dollars, if not significantly more, a crackhead got a billion dollar investment from the state party of China.
You know, the Chinese don't, they don't exactly invest with people who are crackheads.
That's not a part of their business model.
They may be many things, evil, dictatorial, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, but they're not stupid.
That's correct.
And yet they can give a billion dollars to the son of the vice president at the time to invest.
And we have the weakest policy on China that we've ever had in the history of our republic.
And no one asks the question.
He can be on the payroll for Ukraine and Russian oligarchs.
And no one asks the question of, hey, do you think some of the decisions that we are making in Ukraine right now to the tune of $130 billion and a proxy war with the world's largest nuclear power by volume of nuclear-capable missiles and warheads,
do you think our decision-making process is being influenced by the fact that they too probably have a couple of Hunter Biden laptops since it feels like all of our enemies have that and videos of him probably doing a lot worse than what we've already seen?
No one's even willing to ask that question.
Our media certainly won't.
Our big tech will cover it up.
Our intelligence community will go out of their way to tell you that that's Russian disinformation to get what they want.
You know, like origins of COVID, like all of these things, you know, six months to two years later, we're proven right and we're doing a great job dunking on them on the internet, but it doesn't matter.
They got everything that they wanted.
They won.
There's no consequence.
There's no accountability for their lies, for their cheating, for their stealing, for the nonsense.
You know, so the dunking is nice, but like, you know, we're taking like a ferric victory because we actually lost the battle.
We have to be engaged much more.
You know, we need people who are not willing to bow down to that system, who are unafraid.
And again, I had hopes.
I wish we had deeper benches.
Unfortunately, we don't.
Perhaps that's why I've sort of created a name for myself within this basis because people are like, hey, at least I'll fight.
We don't have anyone willing to fight.
The few other fighters that I think we thought were fighters, they flipped up on Ukraine in the last two weeks.
They say something mimicking Trump, and then all of a sudden the donors and Karl Rove get to them.
Oh, we got to change our mind on that one.
Apparently, we found out last week Ron DeSantis doesn't believe that the weaponization of our government against their political rivals isn't a big deal, that it was just made up.
And I guess we were proven yesterday.
I think that was a stupid statement last week or 10 days ago.
I think in hindsight now, looking at it as it relates to yesterday, it's significantly worse than we ever imagined.
That's the next fighter.
I mean, if that's the fighter, we got really big problems.
So we have to engage much differently.
And we can't allow this stuff to continue like this.
Well, Don, I think, you know, just in closing here, I think the primary, I mean, it's basically Donald Trump's now.
There's not going to be much of a primary.
And that's a sad, you know, benefit from item benefit, but it's a sad positive out of all this.
In closing, what is your call to action to MAGA across the country?
We've got tons of people watching.
They're anxious.
They're nervous.
They're mad.
They're furious.
Don, what's the final call to action?
They should be, but we do have to be engaged.
We have to get involved.
Don't forget, you know, the primary may be over in the minds of MAGA, but all the consultants that are going to make millions of dollars doing the ad buys and the commercial spend and the consulting.
And, you know, they're skimming 20% off this donation, 20%.
They're going to make sure that there's a primary because that's how they get rich.
They're giving other people that may have a shot in time when it's their turn.
They're giving them really bad advice because there's so much money to be made.
So it's not that over, but you have to watch what's going on.
Now we know.
My father came in as an outsider, tried figuring out the game, had incredible accomplishments despite the uni party going after him.
I mean, we had Republicans that refused to do the things that they were elected to do by their voters because that wasn't what the swamp wanted.
We saw that he was able to deliver results, and that was with no experience.
But now he knows who the enemies are.
Now he knows exactly what he does.
Breaking Down The System 00:02:46
And by the way, I think there's actually an advantage to being a lame duck.
You don't have to worry about getting re-elected.
You go in there and you have four years to right the wrongs.
You have four years to go after the insanity.
You have four years where you can do that and not care about anything other than what's right for the future of our country and for America.
And I think, man, it's actually almost more of a positive than if you were coming in with eight years where you got to play the DC game and you're doing this.
Now it doesn't matter.
We've seen it's so far gone.
You need the guy that's just going to break down the system entirely.
And there's no one else that's actually willing to do that.
There's plenty that will say it, none that will actually do anything.
And, you know, we've seen too much of that from our politicians as well.
Don, God bless you.
We're behind your family and you 100%.
Check out his show on Rumble.
All of you should download the Rumble app, separate topic for a different time, but Rumble is surging as a legitimate YouTube competitor.
R-U-M-B-L-E.com.
Check it out.
Don, God bless you.
Hey, everybody.
Charlie Kirk here.
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I'm going to play some more tape here.
How is the left responding to this?
This is a big day for them.
This is a celebration.
Play cut 120.
The twice impeached.
I can't even stay.
Twice impeach.
The twice impeached, one term, once indicted, but who's counting?
Former president is reportedly facing more than 30 count them criminal charges.
So, how do we feel about this unprecedented moment in American history?
I called it.
Did you?
We feel good.
Begging for applause.
This is a big day for them.
Facing Thirty Criminal Charges 00:03:02
They're bloodthirsty.
They want this.
And I hope all the people on the view, I just hope they remember this day.
Because I don't know if they'll be applauding when all their favorite Democrats, not all of them, but some of them, one here and one there, start getting perp walked.
That's the country they just created.
And they say no one's above the law.
Game on.
Pick a Democrat, any Democrat.
Charitable fraud, lying under oath, going to Epstein's Island, foreign influence peddling, not filing taxes.
How about Zuckerboxes?
You guys going to be doing that?
Or how about all the different types of activity that's occurring with Antifa?
So just, you guys are happy now, but be very careful what you're delighting in because this movement is just waking up.
And by the way, we are not going to support any political leaders if they don't say, I am going to actually use political power to investigate and find the crimes of the American Democrat crime family.
We have RICO laws, by the way.
Why is Antifa always getting arrested for 10 minutes and then released?
Why are Republicans putting up with that?
They're weak.
They're weak.
And they're afraid.
And then they give these excuses.
Well, you know, we don't always have grand jury and panel authority as an AG.
Well, you could do criminal referrals, though, to a DA in your state.
So to stop, cut that out.
That's nonsense.
We're not going to put up with that anymore.
I just hope you all understand.
This is a local district attorney.
This is not the Department of Justice.
This is not even an attorney general.
This is somebody with a particular jurisdiction.
Okay.
So what are the 10 most conservative cities in America?
What are the 10 most conservative cities in America?
I'm sure like Lubbock, Texas, Midland.
Why are they not doing criminal referrals?
And so, by the way, Ken Paxton says, I'm begging local DAs for him to hand criminal referrals.
I know, Ken.
I don't buy this.
Stop begging.
Go get it done.
Go mute the DA and work collaboratively.
I think that's an excuse.
I'll be honest.
No more excuses.
You have the largest attorney general's office in the country in Texas.
Why do you not have a local DA in Midland Odessa or in Lubbock, which are like beyond conservative, right?
Albel, Abilene.
And just say, you know, we're going to indict BLM for charitable fraud based on the public information we have available.
That's a simple, simple win, right?
That's not grandiose.
That's not abstract.
There's no questions there.
They received donations.
BLM received donations from these states.
The jurisdiction is there for charitable fraud.
Those people were defrauded.
She bought a $6 million mansion in Malibu under the guise of racial justice.
And by the way, so people say, what does the audience do?
What do we do?
People are asking the audience, what do we do?
You have to have a whole new political posture.
First and foremost, you have to help the people that are under attack, including President Trump.
Legal And Political Consequences 00:16:20
Secondly, you have to have a change of attitude.
And for those of you in red states with DAs, sheriffs, or attorney generals that aren't doing this, by the way, none of them are doing this.
Yeah, Jeff Landry has some sort of lawsuit into BLM or something.
I mean, let me try to find this here.
Yeah, so here it is.
Jeff Landry opened a civil investigation into BLM.
I haven't seen any indictments a couple years later.
The Missouri Attorney General is doing pretty good on censorship.
It's a good model.
We kind of found out a couple things there.
By the way, just pick any issue.
How about this?
Why doesn't a local DA go and investigate Anthony Fauci for all the child suicides that might have happened in their local area?
Say, hey, because you're locked down.
That might be a stretch, but it's a question.
Or the vaccine manufacturers.
I mean, there's just so much there.
But they're afraid.
They live in fear.
To them, this is a very serious issue.
Reputation.
They want to be loved.
They're really concerned about the decline of the rule of law, but they're not doing anything to actually go about fix it.
And so the new Republican Party, the new right needs to say, okay, you guys did this.
This is what you have done.
If you don't start putting Democrats in handcuffs in red states, then we're not going to support you for political office.
We don't like talking this way, but it's necessary.
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Joining us now is a fascinating thinker, and technically he calls himself an anarchist, which we can explore at a different time.
But I look forward to talking to him about the news of the day.
Michael Malice joins us now.
Michael, how are you doing?
I'm doing great, Charlie.
Glad to be here.
Michael, Trump is indicted.
Your reaction.
I think this is a good thing in the sense that I think Trump will be more useful for the country as a martyr than as a nominee.
And I think this is hopefully making a lot of conservatives realize who they're up against, that the Democratic Party and the Democratic Party establishment aren't playing games.
They're playing for keeps.
And hopefully, this will put some spine in the backs of some Republicans and Republican operatives.
So, yeah, so he will be the nominee, though.
So, what do you mean by that?
What I mean, first of all, I don't know that that's the case.
We don't know for certain, but well, almost 100%.
I could tell you his support's going to go up by 20 points.
But, sure, let's hold on.
But the thing that Charlie, you and I are going to agree on, he's also going to be running against the Republican Party establishment.
And you don't know what machinations are going to happen on the back end to make sure he's not on the ballot, to make sure you're not able to vote for him.
Organizations now will be able to say with a straight face that I can't accept political ads from someone who's been indicted.
So, these people play dirty, as you know.
So, even if he has the support of literally 100% of members of the party, that does not at all mean that their will will be able to be implemented in reality.
Okay, so keep up the argument.
I totally disagree, but what else do you got?
You don't disagree that people like the Republican Party will do whatever they can.
Yeah, that only makes me stronger, though, because it's the people.
I mean, I hope they do.
I mean, Donald Trump is 50 to 60 percent of support.
Good luck.
I mean, restricting TV ads, he doesn't need those.
He just drew 25,000 people in Waco, Texas.
Sure.
My point is: if you look at the inverse, what the Democratic Party did, how they dragged Joe Biden's carcass across the finish line in the nomination process, even though he had no support and was in fourth or fifth or something in Iowa, was it like sixth in New Hampshire?
I think it's really easy to say.
If you look at who the Speaker of the House is, if you look at who's running the Senate, I think the party establishment is a lot stronger.
Oh, I totally disagree.
They're so weird.
Kevin McCarthy wouldn't be speaker without Trump.
I mean, Trump could Trump could end him as Speaker today.
If Trump came out and said it's time for a vote of no confidence against Kevin, he's done.
McConnell has no power.
I really think that the power of the Republican establishment, if what you would say.
What power do they have?
Sure.
First of all, if Trump became president again, I think it would be very easy for Mitch McConnell to get a number of votes to get him out of office and in a third impeachment if that's what they want.
Oh, no, but that's fine.
But I'm talking about what power do they have before he becomes a nominee?
Sure.
So you have the power of creating criteria for who's going to get into the debates.
You have the power for been established.
So what else?
Listen, you're telling me that they can't change the rules once something like this happens?
No, but yeah, because you obviously don't know how the RNC debate committee goes.
It's already been passed.
The measures are in place.
Rona's not going to change it.
So what other power do they have?
The rules are whatever people in power decide they are, and they have every possibility.
Listen, do you want my opinion or do you want to hear me off?
You're just saying things that aren't true, but keep going.
Sure.
Okay.
In my opinion, the Republican Party is very much hesitant in many ways to have Trump as the nominee because he holds their feet to the fire.
They have a very good game in Washington where they play their role as the Washington Generals, the Democratic Party, the Harlem Globetrotters.
Trump comes in, he upsets that apple cart, and this upsets a lot of people.
And those people will do whatever they can, not necessarily they're going to be successful, to make sure that there will be consequences for Trump and the MAGA movement.
And I don't see how you can argue against that.
Okay, but you got to use specifics, right?
So those are abstractions.
So the debate is set.
How to get on the ballot as a primary is set, right?
The RNC.
You don't think those things can't be changed?
Well, of course, they can be changed, but will they be changed?
For example, the RNC is using Trump's image to raise millions of dollars.
He controls the RNC.
Rana wanted everything she wanted from Trump, right?
Every state party committee chair, like 40 out of 50, bow to Trump.
The RNC, the RNC committee members do, right?
Not to mention now 70 to 80 percent of the Republican donor base, small dollar donor base, does.
So you're right.
Yeah, the Republican establishment could raise hundreds of millions of dollars, but what power do they have except running TV ads and maybe putting up Mike Pence?
They may dislike Trump, but Trump controls the entire ecosystem of the conservative movement, and this only makes him more powerful.
I don't think that this is something to be taken lightly, an indictment.
I think that they're playing dirty politics, as I'm sure you agree.
And I think whenever you have charges against you as a citizen in this country, as Kyle Rittenhouse discovered, it's not something that's just going to be a cakewalk for you, regardless of your innocence or guilt.
No, I agree.
I'm not taking it lightly.
I think the Rubicon's been crossed.
But anyway, so I think he's going to be the nominee.
So why else do you think it's good for the country?
Well, I think it's good for the country and specifically for conservatives, because there's this enormous asymmetry between how Republicans play politics and how Democrats play politics.
The first thing George W. Bush did when he became president was to make sure that there are no criminal proceedings going on ahead against former President Clinton because he thought it would be a bad lick for the country.
Meanwhile, when Trump's in president, he's commuting the service, the sentences of Rod Bogoevich, who was a Democratic governor, Kwame Kilpatrick, who's a Democratic mayor.
And he's promising if he was become president that Hillary Clinton would be in jail if he ran the legal system.
Everyone laughed about this.
This was a great, great line.
Point being, would you rather be the people who are laughing or would you rather be the people who are doing the arresting?
I think it's very clear which of those organizations is the one who is more ruthless and more interested in seeing their goals implemented.
So then if you were to give advice to conservatives or Trump supporters, how would you handle this then?
Let's take your hypothesis, let's say the machine's going to do everything they can, which I think is right.
Let's say that machine is there.
How do you then fight it or how do you expose it effectively?
I think the best mechanism that activists and conservative people have is social media, because that is something where there's to some extent decentralized control.
Yes, they have their finger on the scale to a degree, but this is a good mechanism for getting stories out.
We've seen this over the last several years where certain news stories were presented in a certain way by corporate media, and then immediately the issue was blown up live in real time in a place like Twitter and Facebook.
An easy example is when you had all these reporters wearing masks to report on COVID, but the cameraman wasn't wearing a mask.
And as soon as their story was over, they took the mask off.
Everyone with the cell phone could just show it and put it up on social media and right away it was exposed as propaganda.
So to have people, if I was advising conservatives, I would be like, keep an eye on what these different states are doing, what these unelected bureaucrats and government and party officials are doing, and make sure to be able to hold them accountable to some extent, because they're going to be covering their own butts as much as possible.
So one of your opinions is that you think that Trump didn't go far enough in his first term.
What do you mean by that?
And how could that be different if he's able to navigate all of this?
And I do want to make sure, Michael, my position is clear.
I agree that the cockroaches are going to try to prevent Trump.
I just actually think the Republican Party and the establishment is nowhere near as Machiavellian, sophisticated as the Democrat Party, like the actual party infrastructure.
But we can put that aside.
Let's say he's able to do that.
What could he do differently if elected in 2024?
Or how could he run differently?
Sure.
To your point, I think you nailed the exact problem.
The Republican Party does need to be more Machiavellian.
They need to be able to bring the pain and to have consequences for their opponents when they're trying to get out of line.
An easy example was when President Obama was saying he was not going to enforce the laws against the DREAMers.
And Speaker of the House, John Boehner, said, this is a red line.
Mr. President, don't do this.
You're going to regret it.
Obama did it.
And then Boehner's like, well, what am I going to do?
So there always has to be, if there is a bad action on one's political foes, there has to be consequences for those actions.
Now, I'm not in a position to say what those consequences, I don't know what just happened there.
Yeah, I know Sabine is fizzing out.
Keep going though.
Sorry.
I don't know what those consequences need to be, but it certainly has to be repercussions in order to make sure that something like this doesn't happen again, no matter what the situation in the moment might happen to be.
Yeah, and it's an interesting situation because if he's able to govern again, I think he would have a mandate to actually purge a lot of these elements more than before.
And so, Michael, you have a lot of different opinions that you come on the show.
How do you think the Democrats generally are feeling about this?
I think that they are ecstatic.
I think the symbolism of a president former, you know, this was their big kahuna for years.
I think they're going to be beside themselves and rubbing in people's faces.
And this is going to alienate a lot of people who are moderates who just find this all distasteful.
But this is, they're going to, they can't help themselves, but take their victory lap because this is something that maybe they've been promising their people for years.
Yeah, I mean, do you think, I mean, the question is, is there a backfire?
Do you see that in the cards, a potential backfire?
I think the issue is like the big swing voter is Karen, you know, suburban white women.
And when they see just on the headlines, because they're not going to be particularly informed or reading the articles, you know, President Trump indicted, for many of them, that in and of itself is going to be enough to wash their hands of him.
So I think this is something that can't be taken lightly, not just in terms of the legal consequences, but in terms of the political consequences.
At the same time, I think it will help him a lot with his base, who will be like, all right, like there's no line that his opponents will be willing not to cross, and we have to react accordingly.
Yeah.
And the reason I, I mean, I see it.
I see it in the sentiment here.
I think it's going to reflect it in some of the short-term polls is people see this indictment as an indictment of them, as a personal attack on them.
And your argument is more, and on the primary side about the machinery of it, but I think, look, I think Trump term two could be bold and could be courageous.
We'll see.
So, Michael, I want to read an email we got.
Charlie, I agree with Michael.
The serpents are going to try everything they possibly can to prevent Trump.
I think he might prevail, but they're going to try every trap, every measure, every dirty trick.
Is that a summary in some ways, Michael, that what you were saying?
Yes.
And can I read a quote from Trump?
Because I want to hear your thoughts on it.
Okay.
Please.
This is from February 2nd, and this is my concern.
He was on Hugh Hewitt's show, and Hewitt said, if you're back on the oval, we'll use the powers of the presidency to punish people who punished you.
And Trump says, no, I wouldn't do that because I want to bring our country forward.
Some people think I will.
Some people think that's words, but I wouldn't.
I would be entitled to a revenge tour.
But if you want to know the truth, I wouldn't do that.
I want to straighten our border.
I want to get inflation down and so on and so forth.
But he said specifically he's not going to go in a revenge tour.
And Charlie, I know you have his phone number.
Obviously, I don't.
That is to me, maybe he's just saying that to get past the goalie.
That to me is the exact wrong approach.
I think you're right.
I harmonize with that.
He could be just saying that because it could be just, you know, blown up.
But I could say in some private conversations, I think he's going to want to purge some things.
And I think that would be great.
And so, so, Michael, you're one of the things that you talk about is overreach of government, you know, how rights are taken away from government.
Is it an overreaction or a mistake, in your opinion, if conservatives say, hey, the only way we're going to stop this is through some deterrence, that other AGs and DAs start indicting Democrats?
That's not, I don't find delight in that strategy, but is it necessary?
What are your thoughts?
I don't see how any action that gives someone political gains is going to stop unless there are political consequences.
If you look at Brett Kavanaugh, right?
The Democrats had him go on TV.
They accused him of being a drunken gang rapist.
Chuck Rasley wrote letters to either DOJ or FBI.
They ignored him.
There were no consequences.
Why wouldn't they do that again?
The only consequence they had was that they blew the midterms and they lost what would have been in control of the Senate.
Point being, if I do something and as a result of this, it helps me politically and there's no cost, why wouldn't I do it again?
And so you need to, I totally agree with that.
And there needs to be a check and balance.
What do you have to say to the people that might be in the more classical, liberal, libertarian where they say we can't get into a legal tit for tat.
I'm sure you hear that argument, right, Michael, that it makes us no better than them.
But I agree with you, by the way.
There's no escape.
You are in a legal tit for tap.
We're not in peaceful times.
We're in docile times.
These people would kill your kids if they had the opportunity and they'd brag about it on Facebook.
We saw during COVID, there were just open calls for people who wouldn't get vaccinated to be driven out of polite society and in many places incarcerated in camps.
So it's absolutely crazy to think that you just shrug your shoulders and be like, well, you know, this is just Trump.
I'm sure they're going to stop there.
Why would they stop?
Why would you expect them to?
Yeah, but Michael, it's interesting because I think the heart that you and I have is to not ever misuse government authority or power and to live, but that's not the country we're living in, is what I'm trying to, I mean, continue.
I'm an anarchist.
There's no misuse of government authority.
All government authority is misuse.
Incentives For Conservative Action 00:03:22
I got it.
It's just power and power that you like.
I understand, but I'm not an anarchist.
So I'm trying to find some harmony in our worldview where we don't find this to be a joyous moment to say that we need to use political power to at least even the playing field.
But in order to at least live in some semblance of a free society, it needs to happen.
We're living in a legal joust.
I don't want an even playing field.
I want to win.
So if you want to play fair, you can play fair against people who aren't.
It's like if I'm playing with you, Monopoly, and you're the bank and you're just funneling yourself money every so often.
I'm not going to win maybe one time out of 10 just due to luck.
So if even playing field has gone out the window, at least since FDR, where the, I forget who was in the brain trust who said, we will tax and tax and tax and spend and spend and spend and elect and elect and elect.
So that has been the operating assumption for politicians for over a century.
And that is just exactly how people need to realize how Washington works and politics works in general.
And people respond to incentives.
And yes.
And so riff on that for a second.
Well, that's a central aspect of conservatism versus progressivism.
Progressive has this idea that like, you know, people are generally nice and kind, and sometimes they make mistakes.
Whereas conservatives at their best understand, look, if you provide incentives for people to do things, sometimes they're going to do them.
If you don't criminalize shoplifting, some people who otherwise wouldn't have shoplifted be like, look, I got no cost.
If I take this, I'm going to get a free TV.
Why wouldn't I take the free TV?
So it's logical, but a large part of our corporate media and special entertainment is designed to negate this idea that human beings respond to incentives and sometimes they do awful things simply because they can and there's no cost to them and if there fails if there if there remains no cost they're only going to continue to do it and you said these are these are the people that would go after your children and put it on facebook what do you mean by that one minute remaining well simply if you You just look at Libs of TikTok and all sorts of things where many organizations,
Randy Weigarten, regards everyone's children as her own to raise.
And there's all these organizations who are just saying explicitly that parents don't know what they're doing and defer to the state or to unions or whoever the teacher is at the moment.
That is exactly what, and then they will brag about it, not just on Facebook, but on TikTok and on Twitter and every other form of social media.
That's my concern.
Michael, great dialogue.
Thank you.
And I think we see things eye to eye much more than it came across at the beginning.
So thank you for that.
Oh, yeah.
And check out your podcast.
You're welcome, by the way.
The misspelling is intentional, just so everyone's.
It's not misspelled.
This is your welcome.
Okay.
All right.
Thank you, Michael.
Appreciate it.
Thanks, Charlie.
People respond to incentives.
I think that was well articulated.
I just want to push back a little bit.
I want to always say with Michael, and I did it a little clumsier than I would have liked.
Been a long month this week.
What I was saying is that the Republican Party is actually largely broken.
Okay.
And yes, they are corrupt from a senatorial procedure, but from an actual nominating procedure, Trump has the people, and the people still run the Republican Party in a process of who becomes the nominee, despite how many games they're going to play.
But you should be vigilant and you should watch out.
Thanks so much for listening, everybody.
Email us your thoughts as always, freedom at charliekirk.com.
Thanks so much for listening and God bless.
For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to CharlieKirk. com.
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