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Jan. 11, 2023 - The Charlie Kirk Show
36:35
A Spicy Hour with Greg Kelly
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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Turning Point USA Intro 00:02:03
Hey everybody, today on Charlie Kirk Show, a full hour with Greg Kelly.
We talked about the police, the FBI, and a spicy conversation on race at the end of the program.
Email me your thoughts as always, freedom at charliekirk.com.
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Here we go.
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Very important book is out that I encourage you guys to check out called Justice for All, written by Greg Kelly.
You guys probably recognize him from Newsmax or his infinitely entertaining Twitter account.
And Greg Kelly joins us now.
Greg, welcome to the program.
Hey, Charlie, thank you very much for having me.
Thank you for everything you do.
Thank you for Turning Point USA.
Thank you for your own amazing Twitter content.
You are moving the needle in so many different ways, and it's so appreciated.
Well, thank you.
I want to go deep into how you run that Twitter account because it's just hilarious.
And it's also just so different at times than your tone on TV, which I find to be the funniest part of it.
It's great.
We could go back to that at any time.
So, Greg, introduce yourself to our audience, your story, how you got started in journalism, and then we'll get into your book.
Well, folks, my name is Greg Kelly.
Journalism and Accountability 00:05:36
I was born and raised in the suburbs of New York City.
My father was a police officer who my entire life was just a cop and then worked his way up.
And by the time I got to college, Fordham University, shortly thereafter, he became the police commissioner.
So Ray Kelly is somebody you might be familiar with.
I dedicate the book to him.
After college, I followed in his footsteps.
I went into the Marine Corps.
I went through officer candidate school during my college years and was commissioned as second lieutenant.
When I got out of college, I served for nine years active duty, five years.
I was obligated after flight school, and flight school took four years.
I was a pilot.
I flew the Harrier jet, had a great time, an amazing experience, got to fly over Iraq, got to land on aircraft carriers.
But I always knew that I would do that for a time and then do something else.
And actually, I thought about doing journalism when I was in college briefly.
And for me, I had a kind of a problem with the idea that at 21 or 22, right out of school, I would be asking public officials questions and holding them accountable.
I was not equipped to do that at 22.
And I think most 22-year-olds are not.
Charlie, you're not much older.
You are equipped.
You have this God-given brilliance, and you're in the right place at the right time, doing what you need to be doing.
But so many people in media, I think they go in prematurely.
They don't know anything.
And it gave me a foundation.
It gave me certain expertise.
And it made me, I think, a better person in the Marine Corps.
And I decided, what do I want to do?
Do I want to be an airline pilot?
Do I want to join the FBI?
I thought about that for about a day and a half.
And my brother said, you've always liked current events.
You thought about it in college.
What about reporting?
What about journalism?
And it just clicked.
And I thought, wow, that's something I could actually get excited about.
I sent resumes all over the country, got hired by a very small station in upstate New York.
I was a little bit older than most of my colleagues.
I was 31 at the time.
But they had everything I needed to kind of master the craft or at least get a start.
And from there, I went to New York One, then Fox News, saw a lot when I was at Fox, embedded during the Iraq War.
Came a lot happened to me ideologically over the years, Charlie.
I wasn't always who I am now.
I got here because life happened to me.
I had to learn lessons.
I had to see things.
I had to feel things.
I had to make some mistakes, quite frankly, to get to where I am now.
And I think, like most people, you know, after you finish the journey and the journey isn't over, of course, but I'm glad everything happened the way it did to bring me to this point.
And we'll see what happens next.
So you got into this to try to hold powerful people accountable, and you do a great job of that.
How has that changed over the last couple of years?
Has it gotten easier?
Has it gotten harder?
I mean, I know personally, there are certain topics you are not allowed to challenge, certain orthodoxies.
Nietzsche used to say that there are certain pieties that you are not allowed to make fun of, right?
And one off the top of my head that, you know, I stumbled into, I think, last week is the crime of noticing that athletes are dropping suddenly.
You can't do that, right?
You get into a lot of trouble for doing that.
How, in your own opinion, being in this work, how has that changed, evolved, or stayed the same over the last couple of years?
So let me gently, I don't want to say push back, but the idea that media, the idea that journalists can hold powerful people accountable, a lot of journalists go in with that mindset.
We're going to hold the powerful accountable.
And in a weird way, it reveals a bias in and of itself.
That whatever situation I walk into must be wrong.
The powerful must be at fault.
Somebody's at fault.
And I am going to fix it because I have self-appointed myself a journalist and I must know better.
I actually don't consider myself a journalist anymore.
Journalism means different things to different people.
And I had that experience.
If you really want to hold people accountable, I don't think you can through journalism because it's too easy for the powerful to manage journalism.
They don't need journalists anymore because of social media and so many other ways to get the message out.
So holding people accountable.
I mean, it's a nice thought.
It used to be the case.
We are, especially you, Charlie, able to hold people accountable in a way that was not being done 10 years ago, 20 years ago.
I mean, if you have a voice and you know what you're talking about, you can get an audience.
Yeah, so Greg, I suppose it's a little paradoxical, right?
Because we should be in an era of more decentralized checks and balances against the powerful.
But it seems as if on the macro, the opposite is happening.
We have social media, more people with phones that could easily be going up to Jamie Dimon and filming them, asking questions.
And it happens here and there, but it seems that the macro trend is not the case.
It seems as if the powerful are more entrenched than ever before.
Watching Trump on TV 00:03:28
I just find that to be interesting.
I don't have any strong opinion.
I'm just pontificating on something I find to be the opposite of what you would believe it to be.
No, it's interesting.
It's a great observation.
Sure, we're able to say things and we're able to take stands, but the practical impact isn't always there.
But you make the point, you know, it's funny.
I read the entire January 6th report, 1,000 pages long.
And I read, I've been reading some of the depositions in the Missouri versus Biden administration.
And there's fascinating stuff in there.
Absolutely fascinating.
And I read 200 pages.
I didn't have time for the other 200 pages.
Two weeks later, I got to the other 200 pages and I see in there that Elvis Chan, the FBI agent, is friends with Lisa Page and worked with Peter Strzok.
I felt negligent that I didn't find that out sooner, but nobody knew that.
Nobody was right there, hiding in plain sight.
Ultimately, it was picked up.
There is so much information out there.
And they can actually say this is to hold them accountable.
There's almost, we're overwhelmed with information.
And very few institutions are equipped.
They have the time, the bandwidth to sit there and read a thousand pages of the.
So you read the whole January 6th report.
I did not.
What was your big takeaway, if anything?
Was it a lot of, do you actually find it to be helpful to read?
Well, I think it's a corrupt document.
I think they should all be arrested, quite frankly.
This is waste, fraud, and abuse, government assets being used to generate something as ridiculous as this.
But the big moment for me, you heard a million times, Donald Trump was watching television on January 6th, watching television.
He just sat there as the Capitol was being ransacked.
Nobody ever said, well, let's take a look at what was on television on January 6th.
And they have the moment, 2.38 p.m.
And by the way, they never actually proved that Donald Trump was watching television, but let's say for a moment he was.
At 2.38 p.m., Brett Baer on Fox News says, this is looking dangerous.
Now, what was on television at that time was a bunch of people walking in the park.
Same on CNN.
You had hyperventilating actors saying that this was the worst thing that they had ever seen, but the images themselves were tame.
Even Stelter and the CNN had to admit that the crazy stuff did not emerge until days and weeks after January 6th.
They're counting on us conflating it all.
That's one big, horrible ball, January 6th.
And Donald Trump should have heard that report and called the Navy SEALs.
It's ludicrous.
And the other thing is, real quick, nobody called Trump.
They made such a big deal that Brian Kilmead, Laura Ingram, you know, they called Trump because they were watching the fake news and they saw the freak out.
But who didn't call Trump?
Pence didn't call Trump.
The Attorney General didn't call Trump.
The Secretary of Defense didn't call Trump.
The National Security Establishment, nobody called the president.
That, I believe, exonerates him.
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Greg, tell us more about this January 6th report.
We were cut off on time.
You said they should be arrested.
Tell us more.
Well, listen, it was obviously a waste of everybody's time.
I'm surprised they pulled it off.
I mean, prime time hearings, no cross-examination, the deceitful editing of it all.
You know, it's interesting.
I actually read Bernie Carrick's transcript, 200 pages.
Bernie is amazingly articulate and powerful.
By the way, he actually raises the issue of the potential of real election fraud.
And just because they did not have smoking gun evidence, that's actually not the bar that's set for an investigation or for a lawsuit to go forward.
Bernie was great.
And also, he brings up Ashley Babbitt.
You guys are not talking about Ashley Babbitt, he tells the panel.
No one's talking about Ashley Babbitt.
You're all lawyers.
There's nobody in this room who can say that that was a justified shooting.
And it's fascinating to me.
The investigator says, okay, we understand.
And Bernie owns them.
And he totally shames them.
And finally, the guy gets up the gumption.
I'll just point out that, you know, she was shot as members of Congress were trying to do their jobs and people were screaming, hang Mike Pence.
Well, that's not justification for shooting an unarmed woman, unarmed anybody.
It's not.
You can't say a half mile from here, somebody said, hang Mike Pence.
Therefore, we can shoot this person.
That, you know, she must have justice.
Some way, somehow, she will through the courts, through the systems we have.
But, you know, I do think this was almost a plot against Trump.
And, you know, my book is very pro-law enforcement.
It is, of course.
However, we should not be blindly loyal to law enforcement.
And the Capitol Hill cops, they allow themselves to be politicized and they failed on January 6th in spectacular fashion.
They let the door open for people.
We have it on tape.
They walked away at the key moment just before Ashley Babbitt was shot.
How do you defend that?
So many unanswered questions, but what's worse, so many unasked questions.
That's correct.
Yes.
So I'm still kind of coming to terms with the report and what I should do with it, what I can do with it.
But the idea that these holes, these problems are in plain sight and nobody has the time to tackle it, including me.
I only read it because I happen to be on the plane for an excessive amount of time and I don't travel very much.
But once you deal with that, then where do you go?
And who no one seems to have the bandwidth anymore, Charlie?
Everybody is in a rush.
And I'm talking about our lawmakers and I love them.
I love some of them.
And I wonder if they're not looking to make a splash on Twitter rather than the drudgery of oversight and work.
You know, not all of that is tailor-made for viral moments, the real hard work of government.
And that concerns me.
What do you make of the non-discussion of Epps and the pipe bomber?
So the pipe bomber first.
And this was one of those moments where I questioned, first of all, I questioned, did I hear this right?
Did I just hear what Lester Holt said?
Because you know, and I know that a pipe bomb was planted outside the Republican National Committee and outside the Democratic Committee.
That's an interesting thing.
It's both.
It's both.
And the mainstream media, Lester Holt, the top of the show spoke about one bomb at the Democrat National Committee.
That's more than fake news.
This is.
This is somebody in collusion with the Democrats, with one side.
This is anti-truth.
This is somebody at war with the truth.
As far as Ray Epps, look, I think he works with the government.
I encourage folks to actually check out my Twitter or you can find this online, at Greg Kelly USA, Ray, W-R-A-Y.
And you may remember the congressman, I can't recall his name for the moment, from Louisiana, a Republican, who asked a point-blank question of Chris Ray, were there FBI agents or FBI informants inside the Capitol before it was penetrated, dressed as Trump supporters, dressed as MAGA.
And he would not answer the question.
Now, it never even occurred to me that there was anybody inside the Capitol.
I knew there were informants outside of the Capitol.
I actually know there are FBI agents in that who should have been calling, could have done a million things to stop what was happening.
They didn't want to, in my opinion.
But the idea that there were people inside.
So Epps is quite a case.
And you saw what he said.
He orchestrated it.
I think he's working for the government.
I do.
I agree.
And it's amazing that he is not the most famous man in America.
He should be.
And I guess I should be doing more on that, actually.
I think Ray Epps is on government payroll and or adjacent as an informant.
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Greg, tell us about your book.
So the book is Justice for All, How the Left is Wrong About Law Enforcement, and a couple of things came together.
I'm going to make a little confession here.
All right.
And I was a totally different person.
But in 2008, I voted for Barack Obama.
I did think, and I was sold a bill of goods, that he was somehow going to be a president who could ameliorate racial tensions in America.
I bought that.
I remember the Father's Day speech in June of 2008.
And he said rather boldly to a group of black churchgoers that we have a problem in the African-American community, and that's too many fathers are AWOL.
Too many fathers are MIA.
He did say that.
And this can lead.
Pardon me?
No, he said that.
You're right.
He owned it for a while until it became inconvenient.
Well, Jesse Jackson almost immediately threatened to castrate him, caught on a hot mic on Fox News.
And he only went there one time during his presidency.
He decided to be a racially divisive president.
He always was conflicted about his own race.
It's actually in the 17 books about himself.
Am I white?
Am I black?
The blacks don't trust me.
They think I'm white.
The whites think I'm exotic.
He was having all of these thoughts.
And he chose, okay, I'm going to go all in, black victim.
Not only am I a black, but I'm a black and I'm a, I, I, I, but for the grace of God, survive being black as a young person.
An incredibly toxic message, but he needed it, especially in 2012.
He actually took a pretty big hit with the African-American community.
They thought things would improve.
They didn't under Barack Obama.
And he had to emotionalize them, galvanize them to come back to him.
And that's really how Black Lives Matter started.
So a big part of this book, quite frankly, is to have a conversation about race that's honest and meaningful and real and helpful.
Because the conversation about race happening right now is hideously dishonest and damaging.
Now, often, as a person who's Caucasian, you would say, well, it's not for me to say, or, you know, I need a pat, I have to have somebody black who agrees with me.
I can't, enough of that stuff.
I just, if it's not going to be waged, I'm going to do it.
I'm going to do it by myself.
I'm proud that I did it.
Things have to be said and re-emphasized.
You know, we kind of know this stuff, a lot of it, but we're afraid to say it.
And I'm glad I memorialized it in a book.
And also, it's a pushback.
I mean, overnight, law enforcement in America was demonized, canceled.
And it has made their job so much harder.
You know, my father, I mentioned the police commissioner of New York City, when he left office after 14 years as commissioner, it's a record, 12 under Bloomberg, two under Dinkins.
His approval rating was at 75% in New York City, which is half non-white.
His approval rating with Hispanics and blacks hovered in the high 50s, low 60s.
What happened was the Democrats came in.
They pretended that law enforcement was broken.
Then they pretended to fix what wasn't broken.
And now they've actually managed to break it.
And I think that all needed to be addressed and corrected.
Do you make a distinction in the book between local police and some of the, like you said, the Capitol Hill police that don't really do their job?
Well, the Capitol Police are definitely an outlier.
Absolutely.
And they've allowed themselves to be politicized.
So yes, I do make a big distinction between the Capitol Hill cops, people like Harry Dunn, because what's happening right now, this is a dry run for actual fascism.
For Harry Dunn to be an armed Capitol police officer, still on active duty, he works there berating and lecturing members of Congress and the public.
He's unelected and he has a weapon and he has a uniform.
This is what fascism looks like.
And he was very, it was an interesting casting.
You'll notice all the Capitol Hill cops.
You know, one was a good old boy.
One's black.
One's a pretty woman.
One's a Hispanic Iraq war veteran trying to make it difficult.
Like they're somehow beyond criticizing.
Anybody can be criticized.
I don't care where you come from, who you are, what you did.
It's what you said right now or what you did yesterday.
And we need accountability.
And I think too many people, quite frankly, it worked.
They were afraid to take on.
And possibly because of my military experience, but I say this in the book: we should not be intimidated by uniforms.
I wore a uniform.
Perhaps it's easier for me, but we have to remember law enforcement, they are public servants.
They deserve our respect, admiration, and support, but they are servants.
We do not work for them.
And if I can, real quick, is one of the reasons why I have a big soft spot for Matt Gates.
You know, say what you will about what happened last week.
Matt Gates never served in the military, but he's not intimidated by generals.
And what he has, how he has tried to hold this military accountable, especially General Milley, it's a beautiful thing.
And that's the way the system is supposed to work.
Civilians are in charge.
Citizens are in charge.
And it seems as if we're losing that kind of citizen-led government.
And it seems to be the exact opposite.
And so in the book, you, you know, and I'm, I want you to walk us through it.
You warn about what will happen if we do defund the police.
And so to walk us through, I mean, the Capitol Police is an outlier, but the FBI, they don't seem to be much better either.
The FBI seems to be more of the same, of kind of just politicized.
Is there a distinction maybe between the boots and the suits potentially between some of the top levels of the FBI?
I mean, you mentioned Elvis Chan, who has his pronouns in his bio, right?
And I totally, I love my local police.
I just was walking through my neighborhood the other day and a local police officer came up to me and I thanked him for all that he's doing.
And it's such a tough job.
If I saw Elvis Chan, my first words would not be gratitude.
I understand and I agree with you.
This is not a book about the FBI.
The FBI was not out trying to stop riots.
They were monitoring riots and possibly even facilitating riots.
I use some FBI statistics because their statistics are at this point somewhat reliable in terms of numbers across the country.
But I am focused on local law enforcement, state and local law enforcement.
Those are the ones, you know, those are the ones that people interact with.
You can go your whole life and never meet an FBI agent, right?
But most of us know a cop.
We know somebody who's a cop.
We had to call the cops once.
You know, maybe the cops called us.
We all kind of have some experience with law enforcement on a, on a, not on a daily basis, but so, no, the FBI, by the way, Federal Bureau of Investigation.
I mean, what is, what's not to like?
The FBI is in big trouble and needs to be, I guess, removed legally, of course.
They have to start over.
They have canceled themselves and they are not deserving our trust.
And I'll say this: the rank and file, you know, the knee-jerk thing is to say, well, you know, we have the managers, then we have the rank and file.
You're a manager.
The moment you started achieving any kind of seniority, you're in management.
FBI has huge problems.
I'm actually, it's one thing.
I wonder what would have happened, Charlie, if my father became the FBI director.
Twice in his life, he was offered that job.
Well, one formal offer, one, not so much.
Bill Clinton asked him to be the FBI director in 1993.
He turned it down.
At that point, he was a new police commissioner.
In his opinion, it was the best job in law enforcement.
Fast forward, Donald Trump called him the day he fired Jim Comey and asked him if he'd be interested.
And he was.
Now, come to learn that uh, our sense is that Chris Christie, who is uh still a favored person in Trump world, interceded and uh got his friend that job.
But a lot of things would be very different in America right now if uh Ray Kelly had been the FBI director, or if he still were the FBI director.
Yeah, and it's.
It's a tragedy that what's happened to the FBI, because we actually need a functioning, you know, domestic police force that can deal with some of these issues, especially across state lines.
But it's really too bad what it's become.
So, Greg, anything else about the book you want our audience to be aware of before we get into some other topics here?
Well, the book needed to be written.
I think that this is going to, it's a book for the woke, perhaps.
They need to wake the hell up.
After corporate America went bananas with Black Lives Matter, I thought that had to be countered because it hasn't been yet.
This narrative, this fake narrative that America is a fundamentally evil place, is fundamentally racist, is fundamentally committed to the eradication of black people and white supremacy.
I mean, it is all nonsense.
Talking Race Comfortably 00:07:48
I wanted to organize my thoughts, present them in a methodical way to reveal that this is not true.
By the way, I debunked the 1619 project, which is not hard to do, and to have people pause, take a step back, and realize just how dangerous this is, what we have done.
Because police, understandably, it's called the Ferguson effect, and it's real.
If police officers believe that not only it was already a tough job, they already risked their lives.
Now they're risking their livelihood, their freedom.
You know, it was interesting.
When I was in the military, I saw this a million times.
A lot of folks in the military will gladly risk their lives for their country, but they won't risk their careers.
It's kind of interesting when you think about it.
And that goes for a lot of cops as well.
I understand that.
So this culture is in big trouble.
We have to kind of re-embrace the basics that the good guys are the good guys.
And I kind of say how we got here.
And there's a roadmap to how we get out.
Or actually, it's not, quite frankly, it won't get us all the way out.
But I have some, I think, practical steps that could help.
Number one, don't be intimidated by uniforms.
Number two, be comfortable talking about race.
You know, if you never talk about race and you only let the left dominate that conversation, because they have already created all the rules and they're all the tripwires that they know about, it's so easy to say the wrong thing if you don't talk about race very often.
We have to be comfortable talking about race.
And also, this will sound kind of corny and this will sound actually like it's what are you talking about?
But hear me out.
It's important to write letters.
We all know about organizing.
We all know about raising money.
But if you write a letter and you send it to a public official, if you write your congressman and ask to meet with him, there is a damn good chance you're going to be granted that meeting.
Too many of us are tweeting or sending an email or registering comments that float away.
But some magic actually starts to happen when you put a pen to paper.
Greg, you say we should talk about race.
How should we talk about race then?
Interesting.
How should we talk about race?
Well, I think we have to acknowledge, look, the number one driver of crime is, as we talked about for a moment, or the number one indicator that your life will not be as successful as it could be is being born into a one-parent household.
Fatherless home.
That's a problem.
We're actually supposed to think that the real problems in America were caused by stuff that happened 300 years ago and not enough people of color in TV commercials.
This is the ludicrous stuff that has dominated our conversation without talking about, well, why are certain groups lagging in school as opposed to other groups?
What is really happening here?
And it's complex.
People will get their feelings hurt.
There are people much more knowledgeable than I.
But I think that to pretend to live in Black Lives Matter, la-la-land, and corporations just going for it.
I guess we have to be brave.
We conservatives, people, red, white, brown, Asian, black, it doesn't matter.
Diversity, equity, and inclusion.
There's nothing diverse.
There's nothing equitable and there's nothing inclusive about a DEI office.
Yet overnight, we have to live with them.
So we have to be conversant.
There isn't necessarily a right answer.
And this is a conversation, but I want to have a substantive conversation, not the useless one that has dominated 2020.
You just alluded to a thought crime that I would love to explore with you, which is: look, the commercial portfolio that currently exists on an average NFL Sunday is it's so nauseatingly clear that they're going out of their way to try to make every single commercial disproportionately represented with black actors, every brand, every commercial.
And blacks are 14% of the American population.
Whites, I think, are 48 to 50%.
And there's Hispanics and Asians.
Okay, I really don't care that much about race.
I don't want to talk about it.
Oh, whites are 60 plus percent.
There you go.
But Greg, it's as if you're not even allowed to mention the fact that 80 to 90 percent of all new commercials have black actors in them.
And I don't have no moral problem with that.
Obviously, I do have a problem with it being forced in a way as if this is somehow virtuous or somehow we're making progress because we hire a bunch of blacks to tell us to go use indeed.com.
It's totally cosmetic.
And I do find that kind of outrageous and kind of amusing at the same time.
And this is where conservatives, whatever your color, but I'm going to talk to folks who are white.
Yes, I'm going to talk to there is suddenly this, uh-oh, we can't have too many white people in one room.
This looks racist.
You know, one of the one of the nicest moments in my career, we beat Fox News on Newsmax and we gathered around, we took a picture, and I knew what was going to happen.
I knew it.
Just so happens, we have seven hardworking people on the staff, mostly women, all happen to be Caucasian.
We didn't set out that way, of course.
It just was that way.
And I knew it.
I knew it.
Racist much?
It's that is the silliness that pervades.
Why aren't there more people who are qualified for some of these jobs there?
I said it.
Corporations would love, love, as we all know, to have more diversity.
It's a struggle because of the applicant pool, because of problems in education.
And too bad we don't have a Barack Obama type who, for one brief shining moment, was prepared to talk about it.
Look, he won't.
I will.
I know you will.
And I think conservatives have to be comfortable because it's a very easy topic to avoid.
And a lot of us do feel like somehow, a lot of us feel like you need cover.
You have, you can't just two white people talking about race.
Well, that's part of the problem.
It's not actually.
We're human beings.
Somehow it's going to everything's going to be solved through Uber Eats having nothing but black and trans actors.
That's going to eliminate racism or the new Taco Bell commercial where a white person's not in sight.
I don't know if that's true or not.
I'm sure someone will fact check me.
Anyway, Greg, thank you so much.
And by the way, it really bothers me just on this topic because there's nothing wrong with blacks in commercials.
Obviously, that's how they're going to misrepresent this conversation.
But it's weird and creepy how calculated it is and how strategic it seems.
We're having progress because white people can't be in commercials anymore.
All right.
Have fun with that one, Media Matters, and buy Greg Kelly's book, Justice for All.
Thanks, Greg.
Appreciate it.
Thank you, Charlie, very much.
Thank you.
Thanks so much for listening, everybody.
Email me your thoughts as always.
Freedom at charliekirk.com.
Thank you so much for listening and God bless.
For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to CharlieKirk dot com.
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