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Dec. 6, 2022 - The Charlie Kirk Show
34:06
Breaking the Sorcerer's Spell of the Left with James Lindsay and Miranda Devine
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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The Laptop From Hell Story 00:01:47
Hey everybody, today in the Charlie Kirk show, we go through with Miranda Devine, the laptop from Hell Story suppressed by Twitter.
And then we have Dr. James Lindsay on his new book, terrific book, The Marxification of Education.
As always, you can email me your thoughts, freedom at charliekirk.com.
Support our program at charliekirk.com/slash support.
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Buckle up, everybody.
Here we go.
Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.
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Joining us now is Miranda Devine, author of Laptop from Hell and New York Post columnist.
Miranda, welcome back to the program.
Miranda, we certainly learned a lot this last weekend thanks to the Twitter files.
What was the great revelation or biggest takeaway in your opinion?
Thanks, Charlie.
Hunter Biden's FBI Connection 00:13:59
Look, I think what was useful was, I guess, that there was a lot of conversation going on in Twitter about whether or not they were going to censor our story and say it was hacked material.
And probably the most interesting for me was James Baker, who was Twitter's or is Twitter's deputy general counsel, as in like, you know, one of its top lawyers, who joined Twitter just five months before the 2020 election.
And he previously had been the FBI's top lawyer, and he was heavily involved in all the Russia collusion scams from the Alpha Bank to the, you know, Steele Dolphier, Crossfire Hurricane, etc.
And so he was, there was an email that Matt Taibbi, who's the substack journalist who was tasked by Elon Musk to disseminate the Twitter files on Friday, he put out an email which unfortunately had the date and time shorn off it for some unknown reason.
And that was from James Baker on, I presume, the day that Twitter censored our story in October of 2020.
And he was weighing in for censorship.
So James Baker, I think, is a crucial figure in this.
He was a crucial figure throughout the sort of dirty tricks that the FBI or a cabal inside the FBI were playing to try and undermine and dislodge Donald Trump throughout his administration, even before.
And he and then when it got too hot at the FBI, he and two other, an agent and another FBI lawyer that he worked with who were quite famous, the so-called FBI lovebirds, Peter Strzok and Lisa Page, had to leave the FBI.
And lo and behold, five months before the 2020 election, James Baker shows up at Twitter as their number one or number two legal person.
So it shouldn't really be surprising when you realize that, that Twitter then weighed in and did what Elon Musk calls election interference before the 2020 election by Censoring.
Our story that was detrimental to Joe Biden.
That came from Hunter Biden's laptop.
That showed an email in which Hunter Biden's Ukrainian benefactor thanked Hunter for introducing him to his father, then vice president, Joe Biden, in Washington, D.C.
So that would have been very damaging.
The Biden campaign denied it at the time.
And we found out later after the election that it wasn't just one meeting and it wasn't just a cursory meeting.
It was actually a dinner that Joe Biden attended with this Ukrainian and also two of other of Hunter's overseas business partners, some from Russia and from Kazakhstan.
So it was a sort of a three-for-one deal at an Italian restaurant called Cafe Milano in Georgetown in April of 2015.
And Joe Biden, the very powerful vice president, he attended that dinner.
And while the White House never responds to me, they did respond to the Washington Post, which was trying to fact check my story about this dinner and obviously proved me wrong.
But lo and behold, the White House admitted that, yes, Joe Biden did go to that dinner, but it wasn't for any nefarious purpose and he wasn't there for very long.
Well, I mean, I know from people who were there that he sat down and he ate his entire dinner.
He didn't drink alcohol and he perhaps didn't have dessert, but he certainly ate a main course.
And what do you speculate happened during that meeting?
Well, I wouldn't imagine that Joe Biden, he's been doing this for a very long time, the influence peddling racket that he and his family have run from Delaware for, you know, nigh on four decades is, you know, it's pretty unsophisticated in some ways.
I mean, it's just, you know, give me money and I'll see what I can do for you.
But it's also sophisticated in terms of Joe Biden is not stupid enough to say anything that could ever implicate him.
So as his brother Jim Biden told Tony Bobolinski, they have plausible deniability.
Everyone who meets, as Tony Bobolinski found, with Joe Biden, he was told by Jim Biden, Joe's brother, and Hunter Biden, Joe's son, when he met Joe Biden in Los Angeles to discuss one of these Chinese deals, that keep everything at a high level.
And what that means is don't talk about details.
Don't get into the weeds.
We're just having a meet and greet.
He's just assessing you to see if he likes you and wants you to join the family business.
So with Republicans taking over the House of Representatives, how should they handle all this?
What would your recommendation be for oversight?
And I mean, for holding also the FBI and the people at Twitter accountable.
I mean, someone's got to go to jail at some point for this, Miranda, right?
Well, yeah, but first, first things first, they really have to get the information out there and find out, use the power that they have to look in places that we can't look at with their subpoena power, with their ability to look into treasury files and follow the money.
So that's crucial, following the money.
And I think, look, they seem to be doing all the right things.
For one thing, James Comer is making it crystal clear that this is not an investigation about Hunter Biden.
It's about Joe Biden.
And the reason that's so important is that, you know, all the millions of dollars that flowed into Biden family coffers during Joe's vice presidency from China, from Russia, from Ukraine, from Kazakhstan.
Have they compromised?
Has that money compromised the president, Joe Biden, now?
You know, that's a really important question, particularly since Joe Biden has continually denied that he knew anything about his son or his brother's overseas business dealings.
He met with at least a dozen of Hunter Biden's overseas business partners, and he met them in Beijing.
He met them in Mexico.
He met them in Washington, D.C. at that dinner I told you about.
He invited some to his residence, the vice presidential residence in Washington, D.C., to the White House.
So, you know, there's a lot of evidence, not just from the laptop, but from Todd Bobolinski, from other of Hunter Biden's former partners who are all not feeling very happy about the way they've been treated.
They've all been thrown under the bus.
Their names are mud.
And the only person who seems to have escaped scot-free is Hunter Biden.
Incredible.
This has just been one of the most unbelievable stories, and it's not going away at all.
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Play cut four reports Matt Taibbi specifically mentioning the extraordinary steps taken by Twitter to keep the laptop story from being shared.
Play cut four.
Well, Friday's thread also showcased the messy debate within Twitter whether to suppress the New York Post reporting on Hunter Biden's laptop.
It was eventually categorized as a breach of the company's hacked materials policy.
Taibbi noted the extraordinary steps taken to stop the story from being shared by the company marking it unsafe and utilizing a tool reserved for extreme cases like child pornography.
So Miranda, you have a piece.
FBI warned Twitter during weekly meetings of Hunter Biden hack and leak operation before censoring the post.
And so Twitter wasn't just acting alone.
They were being prompted by the Federal Bureau of Investigation.
Tell us more about it.
Yeah, well, I mean, this is vital.
And unfortunately, it was missing from the Twitter files on Friday, the FBI piece.
And it's curious that it was missing because the former FBI general counsel top lawyer who was involved in all the Russia collusion scams, James Baker, is the deputy general counsel at Twitter.
So presumably he's been vetting what information Elon Musk is able to let out to Matt Taibbi.
So maybe it's not a surprise that there was no FBI information there.
But we know that the FBI was heavily involved in pre-bunking the Hunter Biden story that the Post put out in October of 2020.
And we know that from a sworn declaration by a top Twitter executive called Yoel Roth, who recently resigned.
And he made this declaration in December of 2020 that, yes, that the FBI had come to Twitter and warned them specifically in the weekly meetings they were holding before the 2020 election.
They warned Twitter to expect a hack and leak operation likely involving Hunter Biden, likely in October.
It was specific information.
They mentioned Hunter Biden and Yoel Roth swore this declaration as part of Twitter's defense against an FEC complaint that they had provided the Biden campaign a contribution in kind by censoring the New York Post story.
So that was part of their defense was that, hey, it wasn't us.
It was the FBI.
They told us to do it.
They pre-bunked the story.
And we know the FBI had had the laptop for almost a year by then.
They knew the laptop was real.
It wasn't Russian disinformation.
They knew it wasn't hacked.
They'd been given it by the computer repair shop owner, John Paul MacIsaac, back in December 2019.
They'd interviewed him.
They knew what his concerns were, national security concerns about particularly Ukraine and China from the material he had seen on the laptop.
That's why he gave it to the FBI.
And when the FBI did nothing with it, John Paul MacIsaac tried to contact various Republican members of Congress throughout the summer of 2020, got no response there.
So finally, he managed to contact Rudy Giuliani.
He was the only person who paid attention to his emails.
But the FBI was spying on Rudy Giuliani throughout 2020 because he was the president, then President Trump's personal lawyer.
So they had a covert surveillance warrant on Rudy Giuliani's cloud.
They had access to all his emails and messages.
So they would have seen the August 2020 email from John Paul MacIsaac to Rudy Giuliani telling him about the lap.
Did they have a warrant for the surveillance on Rudy?
Yes, they had a covert surveillance warrant.
They later...
Covert surveillance warrant for the president's lawyer.
Yeah, and he never knew about it until he got an FBI raid at his home and office last year.
And then his lawyer found out about this two-year covert surveillance warrant.
And it started about a month after he took on the job as Trump's personal lawyer and continued on.
And so throughout 2020, the FBI would have had access to my messages with Rudy Giuliani.
So they would have known pretty much when or that the New York Post was running the story and pretty much when.
So they had a lot of visibility into the fact that, no, this was not a hack and leak operation.
They knew a genuine article, accurate article about accurate information, which had national security implications for one of the candidates for president.
Miranda Devine, phenomenal work.
It's amazing Republicans win anything, honestly, with all of this.
It's just extraordinary.
Terrific.
Thank you so much.
Thanks, John.
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Beating Leftists At Word Games 00:02:26
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Joining us now is Dr. James Lindsay.
Dr. Lindsay, welcome back to the program.
Hey, Charlie, how are you doing?
I'm doing good.
I'm going to see you on Thursday, I think, for an event you're doing here in Chandler, Arizona.
So I'm looking forward to that with the great Michael O'Fallon.
So you're back on Twitter, is that right?
I am.
What a joy.
Yeah, so now you can call more people groomers.
Why did you get banned in the first place?
Oh, I called somebody a groomer.
I called a trans person a groomer, and they gave me a 12-hour kickoff.
And then I got a second kickoff for an older tweet doing the same.
And I said, uh-oh, I know what this means.
So I actually went and started deleting all the okay groomer tweets that called somebody a groomer because obviously they changed a rule and that was going to get enforced all of a sudden.
And then I called the same trans person a child sexualization specialist and boom, gone, apparently for a little over three and a half months.
So what I got kicked off Twitter for, just to be completely clear, is beating a leftist at a word game, which is the one thing they can't have because their entire whole game is a word game, is a narrative control mechanism.
Ideological Grooming And Control 00:14:10
So I took that away from them by beating them at a word games.
They kicked me off of their word game platform.
You to understand though that the left they really don't appreciate language as a vehicle to be able to bridge gaps or to be able to make society decent speech to them is actually a threat.
So tell us the philosophy, James.
You do such a beautiful job of being able to distill thousands of pages of very complex philosophy into a very simple, digestible way.
What does it mean when the left says hate speech is violence?
Okay, so in general, let's go, let's take one big step back from the very specific.
What they're trying to do is control the frame.
And there was a philosopher in the 40s and 50s by the name of Eric Fogelin that detailed this.
He actually has this really important essay people should read.
It's kind of hard to get a hold of.
It's in his book of essays, which is from, I forgot what the dates are.
It's Eric Vogelin's essays from this date to that date.
So it's a little bit tricky to find.
But he actually wrote an essay called Hegel, a study in sorcery.
And this is a very important read.
And because everything Marxist and thus woke is actually rooted off of the philosophy of Hegel.
And he unequivocally says Hegel's a sorcerer.
And what he says is the way that the sorcery works is that the wizard, the sorcerer, draws a circle around himself.
And you can say that that's the area in which he controls the framing.
He controls whether it's linguistic framing, discursive framing, psychological framing.
He controls the narrative frame in that circle.
And what Foglin says is that if you are in that circle, you are lost.
You're basically under his spell.
That's what it means to be under a sorcerer's spell.
And so when they say something like hate speech is violence, what they actually are doing is they're trying to equate the idea that you using speech they don't want you to use is equivalent to harming people or doing actual violence.
They're casting a spell.
They're putting you in a bubble where when you look through the surface, think of the circle being the wizard circle on the ground, being like inside of a bubble if you're inside of it, encapsulated in a bubble.
And when you look through that surface of the bubble, the sheen, the glass globe, whatever you want to think of it as, that distorts your vision of everything outside.
So when you step into that and understand, well, they have a point.
It does hurt people's feelings, and psychological harm is harm, and that can lead to physical harm.
Then you've stepped inside the wizard circle and they have taken, they have reframed your understanding of speech so that they control you and your ability to use it.
And that's all it really is.
It's a magic spell.
Yeah.
And so that sounds awfully mystical for a group of people that seem to say they're humanistic materialists.
Well, I mean, that's what Hegel actually said.
He said the philosophers, meaning people like him, first of all, he said that there's no difference between philosophy and religion, and that when he says speculative philosophy, he means mystical thinking.
He also said that the philosophers in this, in which one is it?
It's either in Encyclopedia Logic or in the science of logic.
He says, so they're both about logic, so I can't remember which one it is.
He says explicitly in that piece, that book, that the philosophers, people like him, are mistai, meaning mystics.
So it is mystical because what Hegel did, to quote Glenn Alexander McGee on this issue, is not philosophy.
He said, Glenn Alexander McGee starts his book, Hegel and the Hermetic Tradition, with Hegel was not a philosopher.
What you have to understand is that he's a wizard.
And so when Marx talks about humanizing, what he actually means is rehumanizing in the sense that re-education is not the same as education.
It's to turn you into somebody that operates in their framing, which is for them socialism or communism.
If you're talking about Marx in specific in the woke, if you're talking about Hegel, it's in his cult of idealistic knowledge where he's the grand understander of all things.
And so it is mystical.
So the liberation of Twitter is something that a year ago, you and I couldn't have possibly have imagined.
It would have been like, oh, it would take someone like Elon Musk to do it.
Well, he did it.
Can you just walk through how significant this is?
How extraordinary this is?
Because some of our audience are very demoralized right now, understandably, but this is a big deal.
Tell us why.
I mean, it's a very big deal.
And of course, you know, Musk has said things we should be wary of, such as that, you know, he wants to turn Twitter into WeChat, which is the application that captured China.
So we should be wary of some things around Musk.
But to paraphrase or to quote off of a friend of mine, Brett Weinstein, he says zero is a special number.
And what he means by that is that a totalitarian regime only can operate when there are zero avenues to free speech, when there are zero avenues to actually tell the truth.
And so one becomes another very special number, which is a number that is distinctly not zero.
One, two, three, five, twenty, a hundred, they're all in a sense the same in the fact that they're not zero.
And when totalitarian regimes can only work when there are zero avenues for people to be able to speak plainly, to speak freely, because speech actually undoes their linguistic magic.
You can demand that they give proofs.
You can refute their framing.
That's exactly right.
And so build that out more.
I mean, they lose power when speech is free.
I mean, that's why I got kicked off Twitter.
That's why I've been put through the most vicious struggle session.
They said after I got let back on Twitter, they attacked me viciously.
And actually, one of them told me, we can't ban you.
So we're going to harass you until you leave Twitter.
We're going to just make your experience on here miserable.
And they took a photograph of me that they claim is compromising and, of course, is not and posted it over 100,000 times tagging me.
And it's just out of control.
They tried to harass me off the platform.
And the reason is because, for example, the speech that I used, okay, groomer, actually hit them in a way that was really damaging to their project.
And the reason is because, of course, it's true.
They are engaging in the brainwashing of people.
And that's a form of grooming, ideological grooming, cult grooming, whatever you want to call it.
Sexual grooming actually ties into this, as it always does with cults.
But in particular, they are doing cult or ideological grooming.
They're brainwashing people.
And if you can use language to cut through that, to help people see it, that's what I hear most often from people who say that they appreciate my work is you've given me the language for something I knew was happening, but I couldn't see it.
And that's what it's all about is when you have a free speech platform, you can give people the language to see the manipulation and thus break the spell and pull them out of that so-called wizard circle.
Tell us about your new book coming out December 9th.
Well, it's perfect because, you know, I just said the brainwashing.
I went and got a prop a minute ago.
It is, I don't know if you can see it centered up.
The Marxification of Education.
I love that.
And so it actually details one character and one character only for the most part by the name of Paolo Ferreri, who's a Brazilian Marxist.
He claims to have been an educator, but what he did was he laid out a system of brainwashing that looks like education.
So the subtitle is Paolo Ferreri's Critical Marxism and the Theft of Education.
And those last four words are the key part of the whole title, The Theft of Education.
What Ferrari's philosophy or educational approach or whatever we want to call it, it's more sorcery is what it is, enables is the theft of education from America, from the West, from our society, and from specifically, of course, our children.
And the way that that theft works is by retooling education, not to teach, say, literacy or numeracy or any of this, but to teach what he calls political literacy while using the reading lesson, the math lesson, the history lesson is what he calls a mediator to political knowledge.
And so he's set it up to where these Marxists in education, and they've controlled education for roughly 50 years now, have the ability to give you a math problem or give you a history lesson or give you a reading lesson and actually tool it so that it achieves a political, it doesn't achieve, it becomes a political lesson instead.
And so that's what I'm trying to expose in this book so that parents across the country, so that teachers who are still not woke across the country can understand what's happening around them in the education.
Because I think even if we stop all of this disaster that's happening now, if we don't fix education, we're going through it again in five or 10 years.
It's going to happen all over again.
We're going to be in an even worse place.
We just saw in the midterm elections that young voters 18 to 29 skewed almost 30 points to Democrats.
They turned out in record numbers for the third election in a row.
The reason for that is because they are being given so-called political literacy education instead of actual education.
They don't know what's going on, but they think that they live in a political existential crisis.
And if they don't vote for Democrats, their life is over.
And that's actually what Ferrari's program teaches them.
It's conscientizing them or raising their critical consciousness to make them into Marxist zealots in place of their education.
Tell our audience about race Marxism as well.
I'm really enjoying reading that.
Yeah, race Marxism was a book I let out in February to just basically expose critical race theory.
It's to point out that in fact, critical race theory is what people said it was, is what people suspected it was.
It is a Marxist theory of racial property, where that racial property is defined as whiteness.
People who have access to whiteness are bourgeois.
The correct solution to this is the abolition or the destruction of whiteness, just like Marx said, the destruction or the abolition of private property is the way to transcend human self-estrangement and achieve true communism.
And so I put out a book in February called Race Marxism.
And the point of that book is exactly what I just said.
What you think about, what you suspect about critical race theory is 100% correct.
It is race Marxism.
And I wrote 100,000 words that make it absolutely undeniable.
I have learned a lot from race Marxism.
It's a terrific book.
So James, I think that this is one of Elon buying Twitter and liberating Twitter.
And there's an opportunity that over the coming months, over the coming years, the fruit that will come out of this liberation will be a freer society if it's allowed to remain as a free and open platform.
Because they won't be able to lie about grooming kids and children.
They won't be able to kick libs of TikTok off of Twitter.
They won't be able to lie about ivermectin or hydroxychloroquine or whatever it is or forced vaccines, which I know is a topic you're passionate about.
The regime has to be able to shut up Twitter.
If they can't, I'm not sure how they're ever able to hold on to power.
What are your thoughts?
No, I agree with you completely.
They have to be able to control the narrative from every single angle.
If we frame it in terms of what we were calling the wizard circle earlier, they must maintain the boundary of that circle and keep people in it.
Being red-pilled is actually seeing outside of it or stepping outside of it.
It's not a political designation.
And it doesn't mean you become MAGA or a Trump voter or joint turning point tomorrow or anything to become red-pilled, but you probably will end up doing things like that.
Please join me.
If you see through the illusion and you realize that you're being kept in a narrative, you're locked into a narrative.
And that narrative is conditioning your thought.
It's actually trying to nudge and stimulate your behavior to act in certain ways, to defend certain things, to like who you're supposed to, who they want you to like, to dislike who they want you to dislike, to believe things the way they want you to believe them.
And if people can talk about it, if there is free and open dialogue, if there is the ability to speak clearly, to show evidence, to cut through, then they lose that power.
They lose that grasp.
And what comes out is truly a second enlightenment, a second gigantic liberation of the mind of man.
And that freedom of the mind of man is going to spur gigantic innovation.
It's going to spur human liberty like we've never seen before.
And isn't that, that's a great point.
It feels as if we're living through a moment of societal paralysis, almost mass generational stagflation.
Could it be that is it because of the regime of political correctness and the stifling of speech, we actually aren't advancing as much as we should be?
Oh, certainly.
What people believe is that a marketplace of ideas opened up with the printing press or the reformation or the enlightenment, whichever thing that unfolded over years, you know, centuries even that you want to pin it to.
But the truth of the matter is that what it set up was an aristocracy of ideas.
And it set up, you know, journalists and academic institutions and professionals and politicians who are going to tell you what the correct ideas were.
And it turns out that that's a gigantic, corruptible system where the fraud slowly rises to the top and the fraud is at the top now.
And since it's there and it's being exposed, these people are being revealed as people who have held back humanity for a very long time and their ability to go forward to make connections more quickly.
Look how quickly people on the internet were able to start to pierce, even with the level of control, pierce through the narratives around COVID-19 and the policies being implemented.
Very, very, very quickly.
The experts were made fools of within months, within weeks, really.
And that's the kind of thing that they're stymieing so that they can hold on to their power, so that they can stay on top of the pile, so they can be Plato's gold people, philosopher kings that run the world.
And the way you stop that is you allow more people to speak.
Exposing Enemies Of Humanity 00:01:42
That's it, right?
You have to, you have to, it's not overly complicated.
Who was the enemy of Plato and the Republic?
The Hoi Poloi, who was the enemy of Marx, the bourgeoisie, by which he meant the middle class.
Those people, everyday normal people having full enfranchisement in their society, which they've been completely removed from, is what moves society in a strong and good direction.
It's what allows us to solve problems.
It's what allows us to flourish.
It's what allows us to build lives, to build the systems and the networks that actually provide for human life to be good and meaningful and enjoyable.
One day we're going to wake up, hopefully, soon, and realize that we've actually been living in an awfully totalitarian moment, both through speech, through thought.
And I actually think it's going to make our life better.
And I believe Elon, I think he has that belief.
I really do.
At least he's exercising it in a very profound way.
James, I look forward to seeing you later this week in Phoenix, Arizona.
Everyone, check out his book, The Marxification of Education.
I get that right.
You got it.
That's right.
That's a pretty academic title.
It's academic English.
There's a bunch in there that explains why Drag Queen Story Hour is happening all the way back to its philosophical.
We got to have you back for that because your ability to talk about queer theory, Drag Queen Story Hour.
I always loved when James says, if there was a hell, I will tell you that Drag Queen Story Hauer is from the pit of hell.
Or queer theory.
Very funny.
James, terrific.
Appreciate it very much.
Yeah, see you soon.
Thanks so much for listening, everybody.
Email us your thoughts as always.
Freedom at charliekirk.com.
Thanks so much for listening.
God bless.
For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to CharlieKirk. com.
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