A Comprehensive Immigration Discussion with Stephen Miller and Rep. Andy Biggs
Charlie begins this episode with Arizona Congressmen Andy Biggs LIVE from Eagle Pass, Texas with an update from the Southern Border as it currently stands. Broadcasting just feet from the Mexico border, Rep. Biggs breaks down what is driving the current surge pointing the blame squarely at Joe Biden and DHS Sec. Mayorkas. He also breaks down exactly how these illegals are gaming the system by using fake family units, loopholes in the asylum policy, the cartels insidious profit schemes, and even holes in Title 42. Next up, Charlie welcomes the Trump Administration's chief immigration architect, Stephen Miller, one of the foremost immigration experts in the country, for a can't-miss deep dive discussion asking the very basic, but often ignored, questions including: What is the point of immigration? What obligation does America have to immigrants? Has mass immigration always been the norm in America or is this a new phenomena? What can we do to reform our immigration system without a conservative in the White House? Support the show: http://www.charliekirk.com/supportSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Arizona Border Patrol Needed00:08:49
Hello, everybody.
Today on the Charlie Kirk Show, a comprehensive immigration episode with Andy Biggs and Stephen Miller.
How should we think about immigration?
What is immigration policy and what's the right way to reform the mess that is mass immigration in our country right now?
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This is going to be a comprehensive immigration hour.
We're going to talk about Uvalde a little bit as there are more and more news reports that come out about that.
But we have to talk about immigration.
It's one of the top issues in America, if not the most important issue in America.
And so we have the great Andy Biggs and then Stephen Miller this hour to talk about Title 42 and the immigration issue and illegals in our country and so much more.
So with us right now is Andy Biggs live from the southern border to give us an update of what's happening with the continued invasion of America.
Representative Biggs, welcome back to the program.
Charlie, good to be with you.
Thanks for having me.
And thank you for your leadership.
It was great seeing you Sunday at the 2000 Mules airing with Dinesh D'Souza.
So tell us, what are you seeing on the front lines on the border that people need to be made aware of?
Well, it's worse than any time I've ever seen it.
So I was in Yuma a couple of days ago.
That's as bad or worse than I've ever seen it.
Now I'm in Eagle Pass, Texas.
And in Eagle Pass, they're overwhelmed here as also.
So we've seen Nicaraguans come across.
We've seen people from Peru, people from Honduras, just in the short time we've been here this morning.
And quite frankly, it's overwhelming.
We headed on over to check out South Sided Facility or the detention facility that they have here.
The one in Yuma has probably four or five times as many people as it's supposed to have in it.
And guess what?
Most of these people are going to be released into the United States.
And I will say, the hardworking men and women of CBP, while we were here this morning, turned away a group of about 20 Venezuelans just about a quarter mile to my right.
That's unbelievable.
And so, you know, Andy, when I went down to Yuma recently, what I learned is that Border Patrol has become kind of a glorified amnesty paperwork processing organization.
This is not a slight towards them, but these are the orders that they are getting.
Can you talk about how there are the gotaways, which are the really bad ones that try not to get caught?
But there's a new wrinkle where some of these individuals, these illegals, they're okay with getting caught by Border Patrol.
They don't mind because then they get in the system and eventually get released into the interior of the United States.
Can you talk about that?
Yeah, that's 100% correct.
So what's happening is the leadership of this country, Joe Biden, Secretary Mayorkas, they basically have undermined a lot of the policies that we had under Trump that were keeping people out.
So what's happening is last month he had 235,000 encounters, which means that somebody was surrendered or we arrested them.
Then you probably had at least 100,000 or more illegals that were known gotaways.
We knew who they were.
And others that got away, we just simply couldn't keep track of how many they were.
And you see them in the Arizona desert.
They're wearing camouflage.
They're wearing carpet boots because they don't want to be detected and they don't want the agents to be able to tell how many people are in the group.
These are the ones that are trafficking drugs.
They're trafficking people.
We were talking to a very knowledgeable insider yesterday afternoon.
And basically what they were telling us is the moms are renting out their kids on a regular basis to create these appearance of a family unit.
And our poor border patrol agents who are overwhelmed, their leadership basically does nothing to assist them.
So for instance, in Yuma, you're pulling people off the line, agents off the line who would be patrolling the border.
They're all processing these people.
And when you say we are effectively facilitating this, we are because what's happening is we're sending people all over the country.
So these guys from Nicaragua that we saw today, all young guys, all claim to have left their families behind.
I asked them where they're going.
They said they're going to Miami.
They're going to Cincinnati.
And they know that they won't be sent away.
And we asked them, how do you know you're not going to be sent away?
They said it was on the news in Channel 10 in Nicaragua.
That's what they say on the news in Nicaragua that we're not going to be sent out.
That's how insane this has become.
So can you talk about the cartel's role in this?
So the cartel, they prey on these poor people in Nicaragua and in Honduras, and they take all their money and they traffic them right up to the border.
And they make money on the human smuggling part of it.
And sometimes they'll have them bring drugs across.
Can you talk about how sophisticated this is, though?
Because the impression a lot of Americans have is that these are just people in mountain and village towns and they kind of build themselves up by the bootstraps to go to a better life.
It's not like that.
This is a kidnapping operation, a pseudo-kidnapping operation where there's a business model where the cartels know what they're doing.
And in fact, their profit motive is getting as many people as possible across the southern border.
Please expand on that.
Yeah, that's exactly right.
So the cartel effectively controls every inch of the southern border.
Where I'm standing today, they tend to let migrants come through.
Why?
Because they don't want the disruption.
But in other places, whether it's Yuma or Tucson or Rio Grande Valley, they're controlling everybody.
So let's say you go to Del Rio, they're going to let a bunch of people come through, and then they're going to send in, that will cause an up distraction, and there'll be hundreds of miles without any patrols.
So that's going on.
And while that's going on, you've got people that are coming through.
They don't have any money.
We talked to some folks from Peru just this morning.
And you know what?
They had to pay some money when they got here.
They said they didn't have to pay any money to this place.
That's why they come to Eagle Pass.
But everywhere else on the border, you have to pay money.
And if you don't pay the money, the cartel is going to kill you if you try to get through, or they're going to stop you.
They're going to repeatedly violate the women.
We always hear about the women being violated.
That's true.
They get raped a lot.
And I'll just give you a story of a woman who was found by Pinal County deputies.
And they said, why do you have all these pills?
And she said, those are morning after pills because I knew I would be raped by the cartel that was bringing me across.
When did that become okay?
And so the cartels keep track of these people.
They know they're very sophisticated.
You've got people on both sides of the border in these border towns.
Some Americans are working with them.
They're transporting them.
And guess what?
They're now transporting these people who come across.
The cartels advertise on WhatsApp.
They tell them how much a body.
And then you'll get a kid.
Like we've had kids from Chandler go on down to, that's Chandler, Arizona.
They'll go on down towards the border.
They'll pick up a carload of people and they'll make $3,000, $4,000, $5,000 by bringing them back to the Valley of the Sun, the Phoenix Petro area.
And that's how sophisticated they've become.
They're very logistically savvy.
Cartels Evading Our Laws00:02:52
They know our laws.
They know how to get around our laws.
And it doesn't help that our administration doesn't even want to enforce the laws that we have on the books.
And the administration wants it to happen.
So what can we do about it?
The federal government's not going to do much.
I think it's time for the states to act unilaterally.
We need an Arizona Border Patrol.
You and I are both proud Arizonas.
We need an Arizona Border Patrol.
Arizona needs to start deporting people themselves.
I believe we need to defy the federal government.
I don't say that lightly.
They defied the federal government when it came to sanctuary cities.
We need to enforce our laws.
What's going on here?
Because our country's being invaded.
Yeah.
Article 4, Section 4 says the federal government has to protect all the states from invasion.
I believe this is an invasion.
The amount of people that are coming is phenomenal.
You're going to hear an airboat behind me.
It'll be hard to hear me.
But the reality is, I believe the states now need to feel empowered to act and turn people away.
So, yeah, turn people away.
That's the bottom line.
And we can do it and we should be doing it.
I totally agree.
Representative Andy Biggs, Freedom Caucus, one of the fighters in D.C.
He does a great job.
When we take back the House of Representatives, he better be the chairman of some very important committee because something on immigration or Homeland Security would be terrific.
God bless you, Andy.
Keep up the great work.
Thanks for coming on our program.
Thanks, Charlie.
You keep up the good work, too.
Thank you.
Hello, everybody.
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And with us right now is the premier immigration expert on the planet.
He knows more about this topic than anybody else.
And he was the architect in the White House around some of the most creative solutions that secured our country when we had President Donald Trump in office.
And that is Stephen Miller.
Stephen, welcome to the Charlie Kirk Show.
Thank you.
Appreciate that very kind introduction.
It's an honor to be here.
Stephen, you're terrific.
You know this topic very well.
I want to start more broadly, and then we'll get specific.
Immigration as a Liability00:12:31
Can you walk through how we should think about illegal and legal immigration?
Immigration should always serve the homeland.
Immigration can be an asset, but at times immigration can also become a liability if it's not managed correctly and it's not done prudently.
Can you talk about historically how America has had fluctuations in legal immigration, about how illegal immigration is somewhat of a new phenomenon in the last 30 or 40 or 50 years, and how should we view immigration as American patriots?
Yes, those are all excellent questions to frame up the topic.
I'll try to address each of them.
The foundational principle of immigration policy is that any and every decision you make must serve the interests of the citizens who are already living here.
That is the prism through which all immigration actions should be evaluated and judged, whether it be permanent immigration, temporary immigration, or illegal immigration.
And so one of the things that we've lost in this conversation in recent years, maybe recent decades, is the idea that restrictions on immigration are a positive thing for the people who are already living here.
It doesn't matter whether you're talking about restrictions on guest workers, restrictions on green cards, restrictions, obviously on the entry of illegal immigrants, which should of course be zero being illegal.
And the reason for that should be pretty obvious to anybody who thinks about it, but of course we have a conversation that's been severely stifled by a combination of corporate interests, political interests, financial interests.
So take the example of a public school in a small community that is underfunded and under-resourced.
And let's say that the student body has a lot of first-generation Americans.
So they're trying to climb into the middle class, get a great education, live the American dream.
And our job as citizens, as fellow citizens, as policymakers is to help them accomplish that goal.
If we have an immigration policy that doubles the size of that classroom overnight, and so that you go from a situation where you have one teacher for 20 students to one teacher for 40 students, that works against the interests of every single student in that classroom, including probably especially the students who are the most recent arrivals into the country.
And so it is, in fact, pro-immigrant to control the flow of future immigration.
To use the perhaps overly simplistic analogy, think of a restaurant.
If you've been waiting online to get into a restaurant and you booked your reservation long in advance and it's a very popular, if not the most popular restaurant in your community, and it has space to see, say, 50 tables, and you get your table and you're there,
even though maybe this is your first time at that restaurant, you have the exact same interests as even the most regular customers at that restaurant to make sure that the manager doesn't come in and put 40 more tables in the restaurant and you're elbow to elbow with everybody and it takes you four hours to get your meal and there's terrible customer service.
And that's what we're doing with our immigration policy is we're straining our public services, we're straining our social services, our health care services, our police departments, and all of it is making life a lot more difficult for everybody who's living here.
But very importantly, it really disproportionately impacts the members of the existing national community who are the most recent entrants.
And so it is very harmful to both first-generation immigrants as well as the Hispanic American community in general, as well as the African American community, to have large-scale, unimpeded immigration.
So that's, I think, the first and most important principle to think about.
Now, you mentioned historical trends.
This is another important point because history is used as a way to frame people's moral thinking about an issue.
Because if something has always been done historically by people you look up to and people you admire, or symbols that you admire, then it allows people to argue that there's something wrong or improper about deviating from that.
So lying about the history of immigration in this country is a very effective propaganda tool.
It's the reason why, if you may remember, I got into a pretty intense debate with Jim Acosta about the Statue of Liberty, because the whole history of that statue has been rewritten and used as a tool for open borders when in fact the statue was a gift that was meant to be a symbol of American liberty enlightening the world, but had nothing at all to do with immigration.
So the history of immigration to America is one of ebbs and flows.
There's been periods of very large-scale immigration.
There's been periods of very little to net negative immigration.
So if you look at the history of the 20th century as an example, very large-scale immigration at the beginning of the 20th century.
And then during the middle part of the 20th century, the foreign grown population actually declined precipitously.
And it was during this period, particularly after World War II, when we saw the cohesion of the great American middle class and distinctions of where your family came from or what your background is became a distant second to the fact that we're all citizens and we're all in this together and we all have the shared same shared interests.
Then starting after the immigration rewrite that was pioneered by Ted Kennedy, though by no means was he's the only one involved in this, starting around in 1970 when that law really kicked in, began the largest period of mass immigration in American history, which has continued to the present day.
President Trump, of course, did an enormous amount to restrict excessive immigration flows, but many in Congress, including a number of Republicans, opposed the legislative reform that he put forward to end chain migration, which is the primary, not the only, but the primary driver of the kinds of large-scale immigration we're talking about.
Then you add on top of that, the, yes, and you're right, the more recent phenomenon of mass illegal immigration, all on top of, and in addition to, both chain migration flows and corporate immigration flows.
And while that became an issue, certainly as we know during, for example, the Eisenhower administration, illegal immigration in the scope and numbers that we're talking about, I would probably say is a phenomenon that really began in earnest in really large numbers in the Reagan administration.
He, of course, provided an amnesty that led to even greater flows in the 90s.
Then during the Bush administration, things really got out of control.
The illegal immigrant population doubled.
And then Obama largely gutted all ICE enforcement.
And so by the time President Trump came into office, we had no guardrails on the system whatsoever.
So let me ask you, Stephen, how many people do we have coming into our country every single year?
Let's just take this year.
New green cards given, legal immigrants, legal immigration and illegal.
What is the number that we're experiencing every single year?
You know, it's really hard to know right now with respect to the illegal side because all we know are what Border Patrol reports as apprehensions and anybody's guess how many unrecorded entries there are.
You know, we know about what's known as the gotaways, but it's very important that the statistics you hear on gotaways, so you'll see numbers reported about like 2,000 a day, for example, are described as known gotaways.
These are people that are seen or whose crossing can be deduced using sensor technology or tracking technology or cut fence lines, footprints, et cetera.
But they're not the unknown gotaway.
So nobody really knows how large that number is, but it's obviously in the millions.
And then the legal immigration historically has hovered a little bit over a million every year.
But Biden demolished all of the controls President Trump placed onto government-directed immigration.
By government-directed, I mean green cards, guest workers, student visas, refugees, etc.
So those are all the programs that the government sponsors to bring people into the country, as opposed to illegal immigration, which is sponsored by coyotes and cartels.
Now, what's different is that this government is also sponsoring illegal immigration, so that's new.
So it's a massive amount of people, and the legal immigration is where people get a little uneasy because it's kind of built into us that we must have unlimited legal immigration.
And I want to reinforce this, though.
Legal immigration, if done properly, can be a tremendous asset for a country.
However, we've decided to broaden legal immigration for chain migration and from third world countries that do not assimilate as well.
So two minutes left in this segment, Stephen.
Can you talk about how important assimilation is?
Whenever we bring this up, we get slandered by the media, which means we're probably onto something.
You cannot have a successful immigration policy without assimilation.
Can you talk about that?
Well, just very briefly, assimilation is an act of patriotic affection for new arrivals.
It is the most positive thing you can possibly imagine.
It's saying that you're an adopted citizen.
You're a new member of our family that we've chosen to admit, and we love you so much that we are going to teach you about our history and our values so they become your history and your values.
And the ability to assimilate is tied directly to the amount of people you bring in.
So it is good for the immigrant who is arriving to be arriving in a group that is small enough that we can help them all to learn the skills and to learn the cultural values and to learn the social values that are going to help them thrive in this country.
It is not just good for us.
It is good for them.
It is an act of kindness towards them.
I totally agree.
And it's also, you do not have a nation if all of a sudden you do not, if people do not have a shared history or values.
Victor Davis Hansen says it best.
He says, you know, if I'm walking down the street and I don't think, you know, a majority of the people that I encounter know what Iwo Jima is or know who Thomas Jefferson was, you don't have the same story.
You become more like a colony and less like a country.
Stephen, can you talk about how globalist forces want to use immigration as a way to deteriorate national sovereignty and with it, break the backbone of our republic and the nation state in general?
Yes, well, the eradication of sovereignty is the principal goal of today's global elite who also happen to be the people running the White House and the current administration.
Because it's about a power struggle between the citizenry and people who are rich enough or powerful enough or wealthy enough to be able to rule from a great distance.
And so in other words, if the UN is making decisions or if a multilateral group of nations is making decisions, then you as a citizen are not exercising any control and you have no one you can vote out of office and nobody that you can hold accountable.
And so it's about that struggle between a self-governing Republic of citizens or an authoritarian globalist elitism.
And if we eliminate America's borders and We establish the idea that you as a citizen have no right to govern your own territory, then we've crossed a threshold in which we've ceased to be a Republican government, small R Republican government.
And instead, we've become a kind of satellite state of this global elite ruling class.
Defending Republican Sovereignty00:03:00
And so one of the things that I think is important to understand is that nothing that you're seeing here is a crisis of neglect or inattention.
And I'm often stunned when I hear any conservative or any Republican say something like, oh, Joe Biden is continuing to ignore the border crisis.
Not ignoring the border crisis.
He's planning and executing the border crisis.
Every day they issue a new decision whose only purpose and effect is to perpetuate and expand the catastrophe on our border.
This is all very intentional and all very deliberate.
That's exactly right.
Stephen, really quickly, I heard, I might have heard incorrectly, you're suing the WHO.
Is that correct?
But we're preparing litigation in the event that they go forward with putting this agreement into force and effect in the United States.
So we've sent a very powerful warning.
We laid out very clearly what we will do if they do what we fear.
And we've enrolled state attorneys general in that fight as well.
So the next move is up to the Biden administration.
So what is the complaint in general?
Walk our audience through that, considering what the amendments would be if passed.
Just walk us through a little bit of that.
I mean, the very short version is that we would put the WHO in the position of declaring when there is a pandemic state of emergency in the states that sign on to this amendment.
And then they would be responsible for organizing and directing that response.
In practice, the way this would work is the WHO would say, okay, there's a monkeypox pandemic.
We're initiating our pandemic protocols.
And then our health agencies who have helped push and create this agreement would then take their direction, not from our government or our citizens, but from the WHO in terms of tracking, surveillance, monitoring, mandates, lockdowns, restrictions, et cetera.
That's obviously unconstitutional in more ways than we have time to get into here.
I mean, one of the clearest violations, of course, is violating the treaty clause.
It's never gone to the United States Senate for ratification.
And so if they cross that threshold, if they get to the point where they are putting the agreement into force and effect, so there's a litigatable event, then we will go to court and we will fight them.
And we are in the process now of, as I mentioned, enrolling state attorneys general to be ready to join us in that fight since they oftentimes have some of the best vehicles as well for fighting these lawsuits or fighting these actions with lawsuits in court.
And they have lots of lawyers and they're funded by taxpayers.
Stephen Miller, thank you so much.
God bless you.
Thanks for the great work.
Thank you.
Really enjoyed it.
I hope to be back soon.
Yeah, absolutely.
Anytime you're suing the bad guys, you're welcome on this program.
Thank you, Stephen.
Thank you so much.
Thank you so much for listening, everybody.
Email me your thoughts as always, freedom at charliekirk.com.
Thank you so much for listening.
God bless.
For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to CharlieKirk.com.