A Shocking Exposé of Black-On-Black Crime with Heather Mac Donald
After being joined by State Rep. Anthony Sabatine to discuss The New Right, Disney Grooming, Florida’s response, and why he’s running for Congress. Next, the great Heather Mac Donald joins the program again for an interview on the spiking crime rate in America. This is a jam-packed episode full of interviews that you DO NOT miss you wantSupport the show: http://www.charliekirk.com/supportSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Florida's Disney Tax Bill00:14:41
Hey everybody, today the Charlie Kirk Show.
We cover why are more blacks dying than before the Floyd riots.
And then we also talked to Anthony Sabatini from Florida to talk about Disney.
Heather McDonald talks to us about black on black crime and why we should be unafraid to say the following that blacks commit more crimes than whites.
And if people aren't saying that, why?
It's because we have been programmed to believe that statement is racist when it is factual.
In fact, we care so much about black people.
We care so much about our fellow countrymen.
We want the truth to get out that it's not white supremacy killing blacks.
It's blacks killing blacks.
And we want black criminals in jail and the beautiful, amazing fellow countrymen, black citizens that live amongst us to live in peace and harmony.
We talk about that and so much more.
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Here we go.
Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.
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Florida is becoming this beacon of freedom.
They are just putting up win after win after win.
And one of the people that has really been leading the charge for this is someone by the name of Anthony Sabatini.
He is running for Congress, but he's also in the Florida legislature and does a terrific job.
And his website is sabatini for Congress.com.
That's sabatini for Congress.com.
And he's in the Florida House of Representatives from the 32nd District.
And I want to talk to him about Disney.
I spent a whole week with him last year in the Claremont Fellowship.
Anthony, welcome to the Charlie Kirk Show.
Hey, it's an honor to be on.
Thanks, Charlie.
So, Anthony, walk us through what's going on with Disney.
Where do things stand?
How big of a financial hit is this for them?
And why is the legislature doing this?
Well, I got to tell you, this is really a historic week in Florida.
What's been happening is just absolutely crazy and sort of unimaginable for a lot of Floridians and people in the Republican Party and MAGA movement to see what's going on.
But, you know, they started a fight that I don't think they really wanted to be engaged in, or maybe they didn't see where it was going to go.
But this whole thing started a few weeks ago.
Disney decided to declare war on Florida, war on the Republican Party, war on families by opposing a really common sense parental rights bill that says we're not going to allow gender ideology teachings to be in the grades of key through third grade students.
Super popular bill.
Didn't think anybody had an issue with it.
But then the parent company Disney said, you know, we're going to fight them legally and politically on this.
So, of course, they think that we are still the old Republican Party.
We used to just lie over and say, well, that's a private company.
I guess there's nothing we can do.
But unfortunately for them, we have Ron DeSantis.
So a few of us in the legislature and our grade governor said it's time to fight.
So we had decided to end the corporate cronyism here in the state of Florida.
Since the 1960s, Disney has had a special tax district that's exempted them from a bunch of taxes, allowed them to have all types of rules of self-government that they really don't deserve.
And it's unfair competition to other companies and definitely small business.
So we've decided to just repeal it.
So we're repealing this law.
It actually passed yesterday.
I was very proud to vote for it.
And it's on the governor's desk.
We're expecting a signature either tomorrow or earlier next week.
And as you can imagine, the left, the Democrats, and Disney are having a complete and total mental breakdown and just are not handling it very well.
It just, it's incredible.
I mean, when you think Florida can't do anymore, not to mention, you know, Florida has this tenure thing that just came out the other day that DeSantis has just announced.
And DeSantis gets a lot of the credit and he deserves a lot of the credit.
But you've been terrific, Anthony, in the legislature putting these bills on his desk.
And so, Anthony, walk us through kind of how is Florida all of a sudden now becoming one of the most conservative states in the country?
What has really triggered that?
Because Florida is by structurally not actually one of the most conservative states, but you have Wyoming, you have, you know, these other states that aren't doing anything close to as exciting what you guys are doing in Florida.
Why is that?
Well, I got to tell you, it really just does come back to our governor.
You know, Republican leaders for too long have sort of ignored what the people wanted.
Donald Trump really changed that, hired people's sites, met expectations of the actual Republican voters.
And a lot of people in these really red states, a lot of the elected officials in these super red states, were sort of complacent and just kind of ignore the voters, just thought, you know, if we had enough money to spend, we'll win the election, then we don't have to actually give them anything that they want or demand.
DeSantis has really changed that.
He is somebody who listens.
I think his single best quality, aside from his courage, is he listens.
And when people want something, he's willing to listen to them and give them what they want.
And the people in this case are so tired of these woe companies getting everything they want.
They trash us.
And then we look around and we see that they're benefiting from tax loopholes, special treatment, special laws, getting carved out of special laws.
Disney was carved out of the social media censorship bill years ago.
And so Republican leaders like DeSantis are changing the tune.
I will tell you, the legislature of Florida is very similar to Congress.
It's divided.
You have your sort of hard conservatives.
You have a couple rhinos.
You have people who kind of are in the middle and just don't really want to take a side.
But when you have a governor that's powerful and popular, he leads them in the right direction.
So the legislature is following his lead and getting the right things done.
Yeah, I mean, it went from a perennial swing state to a conservative bastion in less than a decade.
And for other people that, I mean, I live in Arizona, which actually, according to voter registration, is more conservative than Florida.
And yet we don't do any of this stuff in Arizona.
I mean, in Arizona, we'd be lucky to maybe get like a bill here or a bill there.
And I think you're right.
It does come down to leadership.
Texas is not been terrible, but it's nowhere near Florida.
I mean, Alabama, Mississippi, Tennessee, and Kentucky, I can't think of one meaningful thing they did, you know, as far as courageous acts like Florida.
And I track this stuff pretty closely.
Governor Stitten, Oklahoma has been good.
Gianforte in Montana has been great.
But it's been, DeSantis has just been phenomenal and above the rest.
And so how big of a financial hit is this to Disney?
And then what do you say to the critics?
Because we're getting a couple emails here, you know, every so often.
We're getting some emails of people saying that it's been, it's like fascism, that you guys are penalizing a company you don't like.
What do you have to say to that?
Well, the first thing I laugh at is the example a lot of the old guard Republican Party is where they say, well, if you do this, they're going to do it back at us, folks.
They've been doing it against us for years.
I saw somebody tweet, what if Gavin Newsom did this to Chick-fil-A or something like that?
And then somebody retweeted it and showed how local governments in California were trying to shut down Chick-fil-As based on the political speech of the corporations.
So this has been going on for years.
It's time for us to fight back and actually win and play by the rules that they're playing by.
Back to the financial part.
So a lot of people are saying, well, all you're doing is offsetting this tax.
Other people are going to pay it.
The reason they're saying that and that media narrative was created is because, well, first, I don't have an argument against the bill because it's such a sort of corrupt tax loophole that they have.
But second of all, I will tell you, this is just the first phase.
This is sort of a multi-step process where, yeah, first right now, we're getting rid of their little self-governing, self-enclosed, tax-free universe where they get to just run their own world and not pay taxes to the state in many ways.
But I think next, what you're going to see DeSantis do and legislators do, hopefully I'm in Congress by the time this happens, but they're going to start closing what they call the combined tax loophole to make Disney pay other taxes that they've escaped over the years.
And the reason this is a good next step is because it allows us to free up and give tax relief to working class people, middle class people, actual Floridians, our people.
And this is something we should have done decades ago.
It just took a courageous leader to do it.
But to sort of sum that up, they're going to be paying a lot more taxes on the front end, just upwards $200 million, just by not having the refrigerator.
Correct.
And then if we close the combined tax loophole like Texas did a few years ago, another $600 million piled on top of that, which once again, I'm not trying to grow government, grow revenue and more regulation, but Disney's the last company in the world that should be escaping that tax.
We should be awarding tax relief to actual voters and people who support us.
I mean, I totally agree.
And, you know, people say that, you know, the National Review, which is a joke, they come out and they say, you know, it's not right to strip people of their privilege.
I'm like, hold on, I thought you guys were all the anti-crony capitalism types.
And you know what?
It is time to strip big companies that are misaligned with American values of special privileges.
Why should Florida taxpayers have special carve-outs for companies that are okay with five-year-olds being taught about gender transition, not just okay with it, but like militantly hostile to the lawmakers and the governor and the voters that support it?
There must be a cost to the radicalism of corporate America.
And the cost is just, you're now on neutral footing.
It's not like they're raising taxes of Florida.
They're simply removing the favoritism that previously existed.
And that's a $200 million cost.
And let that be known for every woke company out there.
$200 million tax increase a year.
That's $2 billion over the next decade.
And Florida, Florida knows they're not leaving anytime soon.
So it's the ultimate, it's the ultimate.
What are you going to do?
Go to Denver?
Yeah, good luck going to Disney World when it's negative 36 degrees.
Anthony, tell us why you're running for Congress and tell us about your race.
I'm running for Congress to save the country.
Everything this country is based on, the foundation of our nation, which is God, family, freedom, the rule of law.
It's all under the gun right now.
And if we don't choose the strongest conservative fighters we can in these Republican primaries, we're going to lose the country.
So we need people with real courage and proven records.
I've been really proud of the work I've done with Governor DeSantis over the last four years.
And I think it's the kind of record we need in Congress.
We need stronger leaders in Congress who are going to mimic some of the things we've done here.
So that's why I'm running.
Tell us about your race.
Who are you running against?
What's the district like?
Because the new maps are drawn.
So I'm actually just personally very curious.
I don't know.
So tell us about it.
It's been very interesting.
So I initially started in a swing seat, but thanks to Ron DeSantis, Florida ended up producing some of the best congressional maps in the country.
So now this seat is sort of, I would call it a safe red seat, especially this year with the wave we're going to have.
So it really just comes down to the primary.
And there's always nice people that get in the primary, but few with this kind of proven record.
The district is the sort of northern suburbs of Orlando.
It's Seminole County, Volusha County, the area between Daytona Beach, the beaches, and North Orlando and UCF.
So it's a good suburban district, pretty solid red, and just a lot of good patriots in here.
So the primary is very important then in your race, is what you're saying.
The primary will matter a lot.
What tilt is it?
R plus three, four, five, six.
This year it's a plus six, but well, I'm sorry, the PBI based on 2020 is a six, but it's supposed to perform as a plus 12 based on just the way things are going with polls and turnout and predictions.
Nate Silver calls it a plus 12.
Wow.
That's incredible.
So in closing here, Anthony, just what will make what will you do in Congress that just won't be the same sort of thing?
People are so tired of just hearing about people running for office.
You know, what will be your mandate?
You get to Congress.
What's going to change?
What are you going to try to get done?
Well, the top two most immediate things, one of them is going to be the investigation of Dr. Fauci.
I think he's already committed perjury and should be prosecuted for that.
I've talked to Rand Paul, who's endorsed me, my race, many hours about this subject.
And I think that's going to be something that we need to take action on immediately.
We can't let these bureaucrats go unaccountable.
You know, no accountability.
They lie.
They do whatever they want and then they get away every time.
We need to change that.
That's big for me.
Another one is immigration.
We've always talked about being tough on immigration.
Obviously, I'm somebody that wants to build a wall and do real deportations and crack down on illegal immigration, but I go a little further than that.
I think that our legal immigration system right now isn't working for America's best interests and for the middle class and working class.
So I believe in an immigration moratorium.
I'll co-sponsor Paul Gosar's bill out of Arizona to create an immigration moratorium in the United States.
And that's one of the many things I think sets me apart from the sort of generic Republicans who won't talk about those types of issues.
Black Lives and Inner City Anarchy00:10:57
Yeah, I'm laughing.
I was like, that will definitely set you apart.
And I agree, by the way, it's time for us to digest the meal of metaphorically of the millions and millions of people that have come into our country last couple of years, kind of get to a place of equilibrium.
Legal immigration can and should be a positive for a nation.
However, what happens when it isn't?
And that's where we are right now, especially with the mass influx of chain migration, anchor babies, and all those different sorts of trends.
Again, the website, if you guys want to support Anthony, because he's from Florida and he's doing a great job, we need people that are going to fight.
SabatiniForCongress.com.
And we're behind you, Anthony.
Thank you so much for joining us today.
Thank you.
Thank you, Charlie.
Appreciate it.
This should not be news, everybody.
It's not news, but it's only news if you don't listen to the great Heather McDonald.
We had Heather McDonald on in the midst of Floyd Palooza, and she was right about everything.
And she coined the term the Ferguson effect, where she accurately predicted that because of BLM's insistence that police are the enemy, that more black people are going to die.
And with us right now is the great Heather McDonald.
Heather, welcome back to the Charlie Kirk Show.
It's so great to be with you, Charlie.
Thanks for having me on.
So it's not news for you.
It's not news for me.
But what are we to make of this news, this story, I should say, that 2,500 more Black people were killed since the BLM defund the police movement.
Your thoughts?
What we make of it is that the Black Lives Matter movement is an utter fraud.
They have been perpetrating the most unbelievable scam on the American public for the last six years, six or seven years.
It began with the lies about the Michael Brown shooting in Ferguson, Missouri in August 2014, the hands up, don't shoot myth that led to riots and led to the first iteration of what I've called the Ferguson effect,
which is the combined phenomenon of officers backing off of lawful constitutional policing under the phony charge that they're racist to try to save lives in minority communities and the resulting emboldening of criminals.
2015, 2016 saw another 2,000 blacks killed compared to 2014.
And then we had the George Floyd race riots, which were even more violent.
You had an even more insistent chorus from corporate America, from universities, from the media, that the criminal justice system was racist.
You had our Democratic presidential candidate using every opportunity to say that the criminal justice system is racist, that Black parents are right to fear that their children will be killed by a cop whenever they go outside, to say that America is endemically racist.
This is a racial sin that we've made no progress in fixing in 400 years.
And so what did we see in 2020?
We saw the largest one-year increase in homicide in this nation's history, nearly 30%.
That is a statistical change in any field.
A one-year change of anything, 30%, whether it's producing widgets or inflation, is unheard of.
And we lost another 2,000 Black lives.
And we lost over 50 Black children gunned down in their backyards, in their front porches, in their parents' cars at birthday parties, jumping on trampolines, ordering pizza.
Not a single one of those Black children were protested by Black Lives Matter activists.
All of this was predictable.
When you demonize the cops, they are rightly, understandably going to back off on policing.
And what's happened since the George Floyd race riots is we have unleashed anarchy upon American society.
You're totally right.
So, Heather, I just got to ask the simple and obvious question that no one wants to talk about, and you will go right into this, which is who is killing these black people?
Because there was one commentator that says, oh, increase in black deaths.
White supremacy is to blame.
Let's get down to the numbers.
Who are actually killing blacks?
Is it white people?
What's going on here?
And that comment was not made ironically.
It is absolutely preposterous.
The bodies don't lie.
Blacks die of homicide at 13 times the rate between the ages of 10 and 34 compared to white individuals between the ages of 10 and 34.
They are not being killed by the cops.
They are not being killed by whites.
Well over 90, 95% of all black victims are killed by other blacks.
We are not allowed to talk about black on black crime.
This is somehow portrayed as some kind of fiction and taboo.
Here's who's doing interracial violence, Charlie.
Blacks commit 88% of all interracial violence between blacks and whites and whites on blacks.
We've seen the videos.
You've seen the videos of elderly Asians, elderly whites being beat up, being pummeled, being stomped on.
That is the reality.
If there were whites doing the same thing to blacks, we would be hearing about it round the clock.
CNN would be in a constant hysteria, riot, encouragement mode.
The Justice Department would be letting out a great huzzah of gratitude that finally its myth about white supremacy being the largest threat of violence in this country would have some shred of credibility as it is now.
It is a complete deception.
But the fact of the matter is, is that the vast bulk of interracial crime and of hate crimes is black on white.
And, you know, if you want to save black lives, what you've got to do, police are the second best solution.
When the police back off, anarchy is unloosed.
But the best solution is to talk about this dysfunctional inner city culture.
The breakdown of the family is a big part of that that leads to the failure to socialize young black males.
I mean, think of it, Charlie.
What sort of failure does it take to create dozens and dozens, hundreds, thousands of people, young people who are going out and spraying bullets across sidewalks, into stores, into shopping malls without any concern for the fact that they are going to kill elderly, they're going to kill children.
Over Easter weekend, we saw three mass shootings, two in South Carolina, one in Pittsburgh, black on black, swept under the rug because nobody, the elites are terrified to look head on at the black inner city cultural dysfunction.
And few people are willing to even say what you just said out loud.
And it shouldn't have to be an act of courage just to say the truth and to say that who is actually participating in these crimes, which is overwhelming, as you say, 90 to 95% a black on black problem.
But Heather, I think we would both agree, though, that this movement was not actually led by the Black community in general.
There might have been Black elites that were pushing this.
But the great tragedy of now the 30% increase in Black deaths is that this was largely financed, supported, and led by white liberals, that this is a white liberal Upper East Side, Malibu, Manhattan, feel-good virtue signal, I'm a good person movement.
What's your thoughts on this?
Help us unpack that.
Well, that's absolutely true.
White elites are desperate to assume racial virtue to themselves.
And there's no question that the further away you are from crime, the more you believe it's a fiction.
This has been, you know, an implicit message from the Democratic Party and from Jen Saki, you know, laughing sarcastically at the idea that Fox was actually covering the black carnage in the streets, as if somehow they worked up some kind of elaborate fiction about this and we shouldn't be concerned about it.
So that is absolutely true.
That having been said, though, Charlie, and I'll say what's also true, I've spent a lot of time at police community meetings in high crime areas, whether it's the South Bronx or central Harlem or south side of Los Angeles, Chicago.
And the good law-abiding people who show up to those meetings are desperate for more police protection.
I have never once in over decades of attending these meetings, heard someone complain about police brutality.
I mean, that's going to strike left-wing viewers as absurd, but I can tell you it is absolutely the case.
What I've heard instead is these good, hardworking people say, why aren't you arresting the kids who are hanging out on the corners fighting?
Whatever happened to loitering and truancy laws.
I've got, I smell pot in my apartment hallway.
Why can't you do something about it?
You arrest the drug dealers.
They're back on the corner the next day.
These are the voices that the police should respond to.
But here's the rub for the police today, Charlie.
If they respond to the heartfelt cries and pleas from the law-abiding members of the inner city community to enforce the law in a colorblind fashion, they will inevitably generate disparate impact.
And if you want to understand what's happening in our criminal justice system today, why you have prosecutors like Alvin Bragg in Manhattan or George Gascon in Los Angeles or Chesa Boudin in San Francisco or Larry Krasner in Philadelphia refusing to prosecute crimes like turnstile jumping or graffiti or theft, looting, litter, drug use, low-level drug sales.
The reason that they're not doing that is if they do so, they will have a disparate impact on blacks.
And so we've decided that we would rather not police, we would rather not prosecute, we would rather not incarcerate in order to avoid having a disparate impact on black criminals.
Looting, Low-Level Crimes, and Social Fabric00:06:04
We are only affecting black criminals by this, but we've decided to drop the entire project.
And unless we can get over that taboo against generating disparate impact and be willing to defend behavioral standards that work to protect black lives, we are not going to be able to pull back from the precipice of anarchy that is now spreading from the inner city into suburbs.
People see it.
They know about the carjackings.
They know about the looting, the mass looting of stores, of jewelry stores, people breaking in all the time.
This crime is spreading.
We're going to see massive white flight.
And we have to get over the idea that generating disparate impact, if you're doing so through neutral standards, is somehow racist.
And a lot of this stems from your amazing book, The Diversity Delusion, the obsession with race politics and affirmative action policies to upper middle class whites who feel an unnecessary guilt towards these topics plays into this.
It does.
And it is not driven from the grassroots of the Black community.
It is not.
It is driven by our universities, by our thought and opinion shaping institutions.
And I just want to plug your book again, Heather.
It's just phenomenal diversity delusion.
Heather, how do you see this playing out?
I'm going to ask you to predict again.
You predicted two years ago, is there going to be a retreat from the Ferguson effect?
Will there be a movement to try to get police back on the streets?
Or do you think we are now in this moment because of the woke ideology being so pervasive and so strong in our country that we're just going to kind of now live in this chapter of permanent street anarchy?
Well, I think you've very accurately described in your second option what is going to happen.
I'm a pessimist by nature, so you have to take that into account.
If I were an optimist by nature, I would see plenty of grounds for to be optimist.
Obviously, the Democrats are furiously trying to backpedal from any association with the D-Fund movement.
Now, I would say that conservatives are wrong to seize on the D-fund idea in particular to try and bash them with it because many, like Biden, has not, he's right, he did not explicitly call for defunding the police.
What he did do was defame the police, and that is much more important.
Nevertheless, many Democrats are now saying, oh, we need more funding for the police.
That's a good sign.
One could say it's a good sign that New York City elected Eric Adams for mayor, who did run on an anti-crime platform.
But it's the problem here, Charlie, again, is that if we go back to enforcing the law, and we know how to bring crime under control, New York City did it in the early 1990s under Mayor Rudolph Giuliani.
We had homicides in 1990, 2,245 a year.
We brought them down at their lowest peak to under 300.
That's another just incredible statistical change.
And we did that through lawful, colorblind, constitutional policing, and above all, enforcing lower-level public order offenses.
That's what the community wants.
And it also helps to stop higher-level crimes.
But if we go back to enforcing the law today, to putting repeat offenders and violent criminals in prison, we will have a disparate impact.
I'm sorry, that's the facts.
And that's not going to be avoidable unless we can reknit the social fabric of the Black community.
But as long as we're terrified of any behavioral or indeed meritocratic standard that has a disparate impact on Blacks, we're not going to be able to bring crime back under control.
And you can see in New York City already, you know, Adams has said he's going to go back to using an anti-gun unit, and the voices are already very loud that that will result in more black and Hispanic arrests.
Yes, it will.
You know why?
Because Blacks and Hispanics put together commit virtually 100% of all drive-by shootings in New York.
So if you're going to go after the people committing the drive-by shootings, you will inevitably be arresting Blacks and Hispanics.
Whites are not committing drive-by shootings in New York or any place.
I'm sorry, that is just a fact.
Why do we know that?
How do we know that?
Not the allegedly racist cops.
We know who's doing the shootings in New York because that's the descriptions given by victims of and witnesses to those shootings who are themselves overwhelmingly minority.
And they tell us that though Blacks are 23% of the population, they make up anywhere between 70 and 75% of all people committing drive-by shootings each year.
The police don't wish that reality.
They don't create that reality, but we are blaming the messenger who's responding to that reality in order not to look at the very uncomfortable problem of very high rates of black crime.
You're exactly right.
Blacks commit more crimes, and we should be unafraid to say that out loud.
And people get really nervous when you say it.
It's a fact.
There's reasons for that.
Culture being one of them, lack of family structure being another.
But unfortunately, the very same woke ideology that you write about in your book, and you were kind of ahead of the curve, Heather, in writing the diversity delusion, is going to prevent New York City or Los Angeles or Chicago from actually doing anything meaningful to solve black-on-black crime.
Thank You for Listening00:00:23
Heather, thank you so much for joining us.
Deeply appreciate it.
And we'll have you on again soon.
Thanks, Charlie.
I appreciate it.
Thank you so much for listening.
Email us your thoughts as alwaysfreedom at charliekirk.com and support the Charlie Kirk Show podcast.
Thank you so much for listening.
God bless.
For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to CharlieKirk dot com.