Having Faith in the Face of the Impossible with Pastor Jack Hibbs
Charlie sits down with Pastor Jack Hibbs of Calvary Chapel Chino Hills, as part of Charlie's TBN special on gender and identity to discuss the "trans debate" and how Christians should respond. After briefly reacting to the rest of Charlie's TBN interviews including Pastor John MacArthur (available from last Sunday's podcast episode), Pastor Jack reflects on his own experience as a pastor counseling his congregants that have experienced seasons of confusion, encouraging parents, pastors, and other leaders in the church to continue speaking truth in Christ while persisting in love and compassion. Pastor Jack also explains why sticking firmly to the truth–even when it's uncomfortable, even when congregants get up and walk out during the sermon, even when the desired outcome seems impossible to our human eyes–is the true demand on anyone called to Christ's mission. Finally, Charlie previews his upcoming speech at Calvary Chapel Chino Hills on March 2 on The Great Reset. Support the show: http://www.charliekirk.com/supportSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Speaking Truth to Power00:10:41
Hey, everybody.
Happy Sunday.
I am pleased to share with you an exclusive conversation with my friend, Pastor Jack Kibbs, which is from a special that we did with TBN Trinity Broadcasting Network.
You guys are going to love it.
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I know you will enjoy this conversation.
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Jack Kibbs is here, everybody.
Buckle up.
Here we go.
Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.
Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus.
I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.
Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.
I want to thank Charlie.
He's an incredible guy.
His spirit, his love of this country, he's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created.
Turning point USA.
We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.
That's why we are here.
Pastor Jack Kibbs.
Jack, you saw the conversations.
What do you think?
Absolutely awesome.
Absolutely awesome.
From MacArthur and where he came from regarding the biblical perspective.
I mean, just speaking truth in love.
And then, of course, our college students.
The perspective from the feminist side, I've got to tell you, backstage, I said there's an ally there because of truth.
She gets it.
She sees it.
And so, of course, the kids, I'll call them kids.
I'm old enough to be their dad or whatever, but very, so very proud of them.
You mentioned about them being part of the future.
That's exactly what you and I are working for.
Amen.
Yeah, absolutely.
And then the athletes were super moving.
Incredible and inspiring.
So sum all this up from a biblical perspective.
What's the importance for Christians to care about this on the school board level, the local level, the city council level?
Yep.
This is the number one thing that we must do.
And it's what we're seeing in pockets.
You know this, Charlie, that the Christian needs to be fortified and frankly galvanized regarding the attacks or the labeling.
Don't let the labeling get you down.
Speak the truth in love.
Be caring.
Be gentle.
Show them the grace of God, but by no means compromise truth.
Because there'll be this love, this winsomeness that we as believers cannot be denied, right?
And the truth cannot be defeated.
When we speak the truth coming from a place of love, Charlie, then the arguments that we heard today, the experiences that we heard today, these are things that the world, the unbelieving world, needs to see.
That Christians are not knuckle-dragging crazies, that they are, in fact, people who know truth.
And they may not like what we're saying, but as time goes on, here's the great thing: lies always run out of gas, and truth never stops.
And the truth will set people free.
Absolutely.
We have a generation and a nation that is believing lies that is just being totally forced at them.
Talk about the spiritual component of this, Jack.
I find it so interesting, kind of just how this coalition of different people are coming together.
You know, athletes, radical feminists, pastors, all around trying for material reality that we believe is a natural law designed by the Lord.
That's right.
And so, but talk about how Satan, the enemy, is trying to disrupt this.
He's trying to be the author of confusion.
That's what he is, especially with this issue.
Yeah, absolutely.
So let's approach it this way, Charlie.
Let's talk about reverse engineering.
If you look today, if the most hardened skeptic of all that we're talking about is listening or watching right now, reverse thinking would be this way.
The issues and the topics that we're dealing with right now, what is trending, what is being debated, what is being argued, what preempts this very dialogue today is the Bible.
The Bible told us in advance that these would be the topics of the day as we approach the coming of Christ.
That has got to be a great, great comfort for the believer.
And it should be, this is my passion and yours.
It should be a wake-up call to those who are saying, you guys are all crazy.
Well, you know what?
Maybe we're all a little bit goofy, but how about this?
The points and topics that we're discussing, the Bible said these would be the points that we would be discussing in the last days.
Give us some examples of that.
Romans chapter one.
I think Pastor MacArthur touched on it.
Where we would be in an age where aberrant sexuality would be the norm.
That scripture says we'd approach a time before Christ returns that every man will do what's right in his own eyes.
For goodness sakes, we see that statewide throughout this nation of ours regarding the COVID application.
Whatever seems right to somebody is what they're going to do.
The scripture makes it very clear that there's a time, which I do believe now is upon us, where apathy is very, very prevalent upon the church.
We've got, sadly, frankly, too many woke pastors in America that are not speaking the truth.
And people will say, no, no, we're all about love.
We just preach the gospel.
Of course, and so do we.
The point is, though, the gospel's got feet.
We need to go rescue and love people.
Charlie, I want to say this, and it's going to sound radical, but it is true.
I've lived long enough and I've been in the pulpit for over 30 years.
And now I'm seeing young people who told me 15 years ago, Pastor Jack, I think I'm a lesbian or a homosexual or LBGTQ.
And now, Charlie, they're coming back to me in the same location in the foyer of the church.
And they're saying, Pastor Jack, I was talked into that in school.
And I went on that experiment, which was really destructive.
And it was really about pleasure, not love.
And it turns out that I'm not a lesbian or homosexual.
I want a family and I'm attracted to that opposite sex.
I'm watching this happen, Charlie.
Of course, that will never be reported, but I'm living it.
I get to see people now on this end waking up from this bad dream.
What's setting them free?
Truth.
Exactly what you've been bringing on this program.
It'll break the shackles free.
So parents are watching this across the country, and some are probably asking, okay, what now?
What?
So what is the biblical answer for a parent that has a child in school, maybe college, and they know that they are being preyed on by this ideology?
They maybe are tempted by this ideology or they're tolerant of this ideology.
Listen, real case scenario.
Last Sunday, just a few days ago, I had a parent, two parents come up to me with tears and say, we just sent our daughter two years ago to USC.
She just got a hold of us and said that she's moved in with a young girl and that she's a lesbian.
And they're weeping, they're crying.
We grew, we raised her up with truth.
She knows that this is not, watch this.
They're right.
She knows it's not biblical and she knows it's not scientific.
Think about that because science and Bible, they don't fight.
They coalesce.
Roman Right.
Exactly.
He's the same author.
I remember your sermon on that.
That's right.
The conclusion was this.
I said to them, She's not gay.
And they said, excuse me.
And I said, she's not gay.
I want you to know, mom and dad, I've watched this evolution.
Did she show any indications of this previously?
None whatsoever.
She's been talked into it.
Today, the college professors are saying things, and even in high school, priming children within their minds these words.
Did you ever have a thought about what this might be like?
Or if you did thus and so?
Did you ever think about that?
If you did, you must be gay.
No, listen, we are fallen creatures.
Pastor John pointed that out.
We need to be born again, Jesus said, and that we need to get the right mind.
We need to get the mind of Christ.
We are all susceptible to temptation.
The thing is, what do we do when we're tempted?
So tell your kids the truth.
As parents, this is painful.
You speak to them the truth, but then your child is going to reach that age of accountability.
They're going to go out and make their own decisions.
Here's the deal.
Mom and dad, don't budge from your loving, truth-based position.
Because when your kid comes back around, they're going to need that anchor that you have been all along.
Sweetheart, we disagree with your choices, but we're here for you because we love you.
We're not going to compromise, but we're here for you when you come around.
So still being present.
Be present, even if it's just in memory.
That's what often brings them around is, hey, I'm going to go back home.
You say, Jack, on what authority do you say that?
I'm just borrowing from Jesus' message about the prodigal son.
It's true.
It's happening.
Parents need to hear it.
And there may be some young people today listening right now.
They're saying, gosh, you know what?
That dude is, he's actually talking to me.
I'm getting kind of burned out on this experiment.
And I think my parents are right because the Bible's right.
And God loves me and I need to get home.
So talk a little bit about what you just said, that science and the Bible are directly together.
Romans 1.
Romans 1 or Romans 2?
It is Romans 1, but it's not only Romans 1.
And you had this beautiful quote where you said, after much struggle, the scientists will get to the top of the mountain and they'll see the theologians that have been there the entire time.
That is the retired director of the Goddard Space Center at NASA, Stephen Gould, who said, I think that after man's attempt to scale the mountains of intellect, when we pull ourselves up over the top, what I do believe now, what we're going to find is a band of theologians who have been sitting there all along.
Why did he say that?
Because when you study true science and the true definition of science, remember, science is not wishful thinking.
Mercedes-Benz makes the great card that they do based on science.
John MacArthur talked about the natural laws.
If you jump off of a roof, you're going to go down, not up.
These are absolutes that God has given us, and these things are true.
And true science is something that is repeatable, dependable, and you can monitor it and you can get to know it.
The God of the Bible claims that he's the author of all creation, that there's nothing that exists, visible or invisible, by which he has created it.
He's the one.
So science should jive perfectly with the Bible, and it does because it's the same author.
It's the same writer.
It's the laws of nature and nature is God.
Thomas Jefferson has something to say about that.
In the Declaration.
Comfort vs Biblical Conviction00:02:44
And so a lot of Christians, pastors, know this is wrong and they don't feel comfortable talking to their congregation about this issue.
So there's probably a lot of pastors watching this right now.
Do you think that a pastor should comment on these issues to their congregation?
Not only should they comment, I believe that they're commanded to.
And going back to what you said a second ago, that they don't feel comfortable speaking to their congregation about it, their comfort is irrelevant.
We are called to be pastors, watchmen on the wall.
We are to inform our congregation even to the point of death.
We're the ones that are supposed to be like Jesus, if necessary, laying down our lives for the flock.
We're supposed to speak truth.
Again, Pastor MacArthur referred to it, that the church, the Bible says, Paul wrote to Timothy, the church is the ground and pillar of all truth.
And just like colonial America, why are all those roads back in the East Coast crazy?
Not like California.
Everything is 90 degree angles out here.
Well, back there in the old land, right, in the colonials, is all these crazy roads that went to the center of a town.
Why?
What was at the hub of the center?
A church.
Why?
Because the church had the place of influence, of impact, cultural awareness, intellect, everything.
People forget that Harvard University, Charlie, was founded by John Harvard.
It was a seminary to raise up ministers.
Who knows that?
We've gotten away from our truth.
We've got to get back to those ancient markers.
Amen.
And so many of these pastors, when they say that, whoever said you have to be comfortable?
We're not paid to be comfortable.
We're not called to be comfortable.
But, Jack, at times, you know, early on as being a pastor, I'm sure there were those moments where you were called by God to give a message to the audience and you saw something that every one of these pastors feared.
You saw someone get up and leave.
Oh, it happened last Sunday.
Talk about that.
Jay Vernon McGee, a revered pastor here, long gone now in heaven, Southern California pastor.
Jay Vernon McGee says that when you're preaching a message, if you're not sure if you're getting through, just know this, that if you were to throw, if you were to throw a rock into a pack of dogs, the one that yelps is the one that got hit.
Even if someone gets up and leaves, this I know, I'm to deliver the truth of God in love, and I'm to be transparent, and I'm to be authentic.
God will use that.
And when I speak truth, they may not like it, but this I know, if it's biblical truth, not my opinion, they may get up and leave.
And I've had people get up and give me some one-way gestures that were not, you know, praise the Lord gestures.
Exposing the Great Reset00:07:46
It doesn't rock my world because of this.
If I stick to the truth, that truth is going to follow them home, Charlie.
They may not like me, but I love them.
And they got to lay down at night.
And the Holy Spirit's going to be speaking to them about the truth that they heard in church that day.
I had full confidence in that.
And it's a wrong measurement.
You know, if people are getting up and leaving, maybe they just can't handle it, right?
For that day at that time.
Look, pastors today, I fear, might look at their Facebook and their Instagram numbers more than they look to chapter and verses.
When they start to look at their success based upon clicks or views, that's a dangerous place.
Remember, everybody that says they're our Facebook friends, they're definitely not our friends.
And so talk a little bit about God's plan, where you think things are coming into place.
I know this can be a controversial topic for some people, but you wade right into it.
Talk about all this different, the topic that we talk about here and where you think that we are positioned right now and what we're called to do about it.
So there's difference interpretation.
People might say, you know, Jack, I agree.
Eschatologically, you're spot on.
But I'm in, I'm going to leave.
I'm not going to contest.
I'm going to go to the hills and just kind of wait this one out.
But you have a different opinion.
I have a different opinion because when I read Genesis all the way through to Revelation, I read books in the Bible such as 1 and 2 Kings, 1 and 2 Samuel.
When I read about Proverbs, you're reading about the wisdom of Solomon.
He was a king.
David was a king.
Isaiah worked in the government's office as an advisor to King Uzziah.
Paul petitioned and used his Roman citizenship to get to Rome to give testimony of Christ.
What am I saying?
Jesus said it perfectly.
Jesus said when they were trying to test him about taxes and loyalty to God, he called for a coin.
And he said, whose coin is, whose inscriptions on this coin?
They said, Caesar's.
And Jesus said something that none of us in the West understand.
Every Middle Eastern gets it.
We in the West never got it.
And it's this.
Jesus said, well, then render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's and to God the things that are God's.
What does that mean?
In the Middle Eastern world, God is overall the owner of everything.
The world, the air, everything is God's.
When he said, give to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, but to God's the things that are God's, Jesus said this.
Caesar, here, give Caesar his coin.
Caesar belongs to God.
The coin belongs to God.
Rome belongs to God.
Caesar and his salad belongs to God.
And the Middle East understands that.
We see that as a separation of church and state type of, well, we should never get over involved.
No, our approach is this.
There is nothing secular in our world.
Our church, nothing secular.
Our community and the state of California, nothing secular.
God owns it all.
And California, I know it's going to sound crazy, Charlie, but California, you watch.
California is going to turn around.
There's going to be a spiritual awakening in California.
People are going to seek God again.
They're going to go to Bible teaching churches and I pray Bible teaching churches only.
But you are going to see the politics of California, I think, experience what God, God created government, man invented politics.
I think God is going to resurrect government in California because it's going to start with a revival among God's people in the church.
Amen.
So in closing here, Jack, you know, a lot of everyday people are saying, what can I do?
Right.
So there's the church and then there's the everyday person.
Talk a little bit about that.
Yeah.
Number one, if you're in California, all you have to do is go to realimpact.us.
We prepare the state of California no matter where you're at to get involved.
So how do I get involved?
Well, number one, and you see it, Charlie, all the time.
PTA, school board, just show up for one thing.
You don't even have to say anything.
Just show up.
You can hold a sign.
No sex ed in our school district.
Just show up.
Maybe find out if you have a cultural impact group in your area.
And we can even help you with that.
Wind up running for local office.
If you want to make a difference, step out and see if God's in it.
Just show up and see if God shows you that he wants you in a particular place.
But by all means, vote.
We, as a people, can I say this lovingly?
Somehow along the lines, we as Christians have carved out a virtue that I don't know exists.
And it's not one of the fruits of the spirit.
And that is, well, we'll just be polite to everything.
If they want to build a strip club next to our church, we'll just be polite.
Listen, not polite.
Speak the truth in love and get your elected officials to know you not only love them and you're praying for them, but you're also holding them accountable.
As we just did in California this week on AB 1400, where Sacramento had a change of heart because Christians in California overwhelmed Sacramento because they stood for righteousness.
Charlie, righteousness is doing the right thing, not talking about it.
Amen.
And Jack, you and I are having a conversation on March the 2nd, I believe about the Great Reset.
We're going to go through all 10 points of the Great Reset.
We're going to talk about the World Economic Forum.
We're going to talk about their strategy.
We're going to talk about their roster, their game plan.
I've come to Calvary Chapel Chino Hills, I think, three times for these events.
And this one will be the most focused on a topic.
Is that fair?
This will be the most focused on a topic.
And we're going to be looking at what I coined, Charlie, is, yes, the Great Reset.
This is brilliant.
But I believe God has shown us that what we are experiencing with COVID these last two years and things leading up to that, voter fraud, for example, the global situation, there's got to be the great setup before there's the great reset.
And I think we're all in the middle of the setup.
We're going to be exposing from a biblical worldview perspective.
So it's going to be amazing.
And no doubt we'll have just tens of thousands of people.
It's going to be incredible.
There's 10 promises of the great reset promise I put in quotes of the globalists.
You know, no borders, no private property, you won't eat meat anymore.
And then we're going to, you will mostly lead the train on this.
What does the Bible say about these things?
Exactly.
And why do they want these things?
Who are the people behind it?
That's where I'll be able to contribute the most, right?
Klaus Schwab to the World Economic Forum, young leaders of Justin Trudeau, who graduated from it, and Emmanuel Macron.
And people will start to see that there is a plan that has been implementing a lot of these things that I think is just so important.
And if you live in Southern California, John MacArthur's church is awesome.
Rob McCoy's church is awesome.
But also Jack Kibbs, Calvary Chapel, Chino Hills, is just terrific.
And I think he has the earliest church service in the Western Hemisphere.
7 a.m. It was 7.15.
We changed it to 8 o'clock.
Okay.
I know.
I know.
I'm getting old.
Jack, you're a great friend and a brother in Christ.
Thank you for taking the stands you take.
God bless you.
God bless you, brother.
Thanks.
Thanks so much for listening, everybody.
If you want to get involved with Turning Point USA, go to tpusa.com.
Email us your questions, freedom at charliekirk.com.
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God bless you guys.
Have a great Sunday.
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You'll love it.
Talk to you soon.
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