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Jan. 25, 2022 - The Charlie Kirk Show
36:10
Winning the Fight for Free Speech Online with Dave Rubin
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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Supporting Creators on Patreon 00:14:18
Hey, everybody.
Today on the Charlie Kirk show, Dave Rubin from locals, locals.com.
You guys should all check out locals.com.
I think it's terrific.
Locals is an amazing website.
You guys should check it out where you guys can support content creators, including our show at locals.com.
Dave and I have known each other for years.
We throw some jokes back and forth from each other.
Don't take the jokes very seriously, everybody.
Okay.
We're already getting some emails.
Charlie, how dare you?
Okay, just calm down.
All right.
Dave and I have known each other for years.
He's not offended.
He's a good person.
He's courageous.
He's smart.
And he's an entrepreneur.
It's great.
It's a light-hearted episode, but also very serious about the subject matter at hand, freedom of speech.
If you want to support our show, go to charliekirk.com slash support.
If you want to get involved with TurningPointUSA, you can do so.
tpusa.com.
That's tpusa.com, where we play offense with a sense of urgency to win the American Culture War.
tpusa.com.
That's tpusa.com.
Buckle up, everybody.
Dave Rubin is here from locals.com.
Here we go.
Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.
Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus.
I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.
Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.
I want to thank Charlie.
He's an incredible guy.
His spirit, his love of this country.
He's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point USA.
We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.
That's why we are here.
Brought to you by my friends, Andrew and Todd at Sierra Pacific Mortgage, 888, 888, 1172 or AndrewNTodd.com.
With us right now is a friend of mine and the founder of Locals, which has now merged with Rumble.
Congratulations to all behind it, including the founder.
And he's one of the smartest and one of the most courageous fighters for free speech on the planet.
Dave Rubin.
Dave, welcome to the Charlie Kirk Show.
Smartest and courageous, Charlie.
Our guys sent you the paperwork, I see.
I appreciate it.
I read it first, friend.
It's good to see you.
Now, I omitted handsome because that would be weird.
It would be weird for me.
I like your hat.
I like your hat.
It wouldn't be weird for you, but that's a separate issue.
So we can talk about that if you want.
Not really.
So, Dave, first, congratulations.
Locals is amazing.
We're starting to use it more and more.
You're part of kind of this parallel economy.
Talk about it.
You're an entrepreneur.
It got acquired or merged with Rumble.
So walk us through that.
Yeah.
You know, the truth is that for guys like us and all of the people that are now online and in mainstream media who talk about the problems of the world for a living, there is a value in talking.
And then at some point, if you don't do anything about it, you're just talking.
And then I would say you get ultimately diminishing returns on that.
So all of us were screaming about big tech and were upset about shadow banning and deboosting and algorithmic tricks and all of this stuff.
And I thought, all right, well, I've talked to a lot of people.
No one seems to be willing to do anything.
I guess I'll build something.
And that really, about three and a half years ago, was the genesis of locals.
I thought, well, what do I need as a creator?
I want to own my video, own my audio.
I want to own the user data.
I want to be able to communicate directly with my own audience without having to go through YouTube or Twitter or Facebook or Instagram, et cetera, et cetera.
And we started building a really great product that also allowed my audience to subscribe to my stuff in essence so that I could actually make some money by producing hopefully worthwhile content.
And the company really grew really fast.
I was able to get a great team of investors to help us bring on more programmers and just the right architects to build a really nice and I would say elegant product.
And then the Rumble guys came along and you know a bit about Chris Ober at Rumble and the other people over there.
And I thought, well, you know, you can fight alone, meaning I could build a great product and I can try to fight Google myself.
And, you know, that David guy did beat Goliath.
So maybe Dave can beat Google.
But sometimes it's good to have a team too.
You know, you can think about it as team sports.
You can think Lord of the Rings or whatever.
Like it's good to have some other people around you in the battle.
And we just saw a great opportunity to merge what we're doing, which is subscription-based solutions with what Rumble's doing, which is sort of underbelly of the internet, replace Amazon AWS, but also the front-facing video YouTube side of things, so to speak.
And we've merged.
And this is just the beginning.
I mean, the parallel economy, that's the phrase you use, which I've been using for quite some time.
I'm not here to have the government come in and fix all of our problems.
I don't think the government does anything well.
What I would prefer to do is build better products.
And that's exactly what our plan is.
And that's why I'm thrilled you're on there.
And that's why the numbers are blowing up.
I mean, the proof's in the pudding.
People want off-ramps from the big tech craziness.
Well, I want to just compliment you again because so many people talk a good game with this stuff.
And I kind of walked through this with you for quite a while, right?
That you were criticizing Google.
You were talking with them, trying to say, hey, can you back down YouTube?
Can we make this work?
Because you had an amazingly big YouTube phone and you're still doing things on YouTube, obviously.
You've had all the above approach.
But it was really the Patreon thing that it seemed to motivate you more than anything else, especially kind of the Jordan Peterson delisting from Patreon.
You went on tour with Jordan and you decided, hey, I'm an entrepreneur.
I own my own stuff.
Let's do this thing.
And talk about the Patreon thing because that really was where they thought they could choke point the ability for creators to make money and not live within a corporate box.
Yeah, I'm glad you asked because, you know, it sounds like a little bit like insider baseball stuff.
How did these things come together?
But it is important because, you know, the way information moves so fast these days, we all kind of forget the seminal moments that happened before that led any of us to this.
And I mean, by any of us, I mean that led any of us to being addicted to these devices, to having given all our data away and everything else.
So basically, back in it was December of 2018, there was a guy who I'm guessing maybe you've talked to before who goes by the name Sargon of Akkad on YouTube.
His real name is Carl Benjamin.
He's in the UK.
And he was one of the first guys about five or six years ago when I was going through my own political awakening, realizing how sort of corrupt and backwards the progressives are and how they had abandoned liberalism.
He was one of the guys on YouTube that described himself as a classical liberal.
He was fighting for individual rights and liberty, most things that we now associate with libertarians and conservatives.
But he was an interesting guy to talk to.
Anyway, he was on Patreon and Patreon for your audience that doesn't know, they're basically just a crowdfunding subscription site.
So if you produce pretty much anything online, they will enable you to have your audience subscribe monthly to what you do.
You set your price limits, et cetera.
Anyway, I went on Patreon.
That's where I was funding my show.
It was about 80% of my rev. I built a really successful company around that and hired a bunch of employees and everything else.
I was on Patreon.
Jordan Peterson was on Patreon as well, some other big people.
And Carl Benjamin, Sargon of Akkad, he was on there and he went on someone else's show, not his Patreon channel, not his YouTube that was funded by Patreon.
He went on someone else's show that had nothing to do with Patreon.
And he said the N-word.
And he said the N-word, not to be racially offensive or pejorative, but he said it because he was mocking the people who use that language.
Patreon decided without any warning, without any recourse to delete his channel.
Now, he was running his own business in that way.
So they just said to him, hey, we're not even going to give you a chance to explain yourself.
But really what it was, it wasn't just that.
It was the fact that it had nothing to do with Patreon that really was the bell in my mind, like the warning, the canary in the coal mine, where it was like, wait a minute, they can boot you off services for things that you've done that have nothing to do with the services themselves.
So once that happened, that's where Jordan Peterson and I, and as you said, we were on tour together at the time.
We had been discussing, you know, could we maybe build something?
Is there a way to do something?
That's when I said, okay, we got to go.
And Jordan and I Subsequently.
Announced we were both leaving Patreon.
Then Sam Harris left Patreon, a bunch of other people did, and that really was the beginning of Locals.
I said, all right, let me, let me build some of this stuff for myself.
And then what we realized is that you know, if you build something that works for you, well most likely it's going to work for some other people too.
And and that's really where Rumble came into the equation, because they were like, oh, these guys have built a nice subscription side of things, we've got the video player side of things.
Why don't we build these two products together?
And and then build something much bigger.
And it's Locals.com and it's officially now merged with Rumble, which is now a spec, publicly traded, and it's exciting.
I mean look, i'm all for breaking up Google.
I've said it for a while.
I came on your show, Dave.
I wouldn't have said that four years ago.
I did come on your show and we kind of danced around it, right.
We were kind of still believers in the market, and we still are, but it was.
I think I was a little naive, to be honest, about how strong these companies were.
Go ahead, comment on it yeah well, real quick.
I mean, I remember that conversation well and you and I have also discussed it privately and on stage together many times at colleges and things.
Look, there's a reason that I never fully described myself as a libertarian.
I think there's a reason that you don't describe yourself fully as a libertarian, that you describe yourself as a conservative and I I, at this point, consider myself a conservative.
I think there's a widening of conservatism that we can.
We can discuss if you want, but without getting lost in the definitions.
I never believed that that government should absolutely do nothing.
I like some of that stuff.
I love Michael Malice, I love some of the anarchist guys, like intellectually, I like it.
But if the government is not to do anything in a case like this, where we are addicted to these machines that are infringing on our ability to communicate with each other, that are causing all sorts of strife culturally politically, everything if the government's supposed to do nothing related to any of that, well then, what's the purpose of the government?
So, unless you fully want to go down that road which, by the way, as I said, I like some of those ideas, but but it would be an adventure to go down that road so, unless you really want to go down that.
I'm with you that we have to figure out the pressure points but, at the same time, build that parallel economy.
That's exactly right.
I remember I came we did two episodes people to watch them on Rubin Report, and the first one was in january of 2018 and the next one was in the summer of 2019 and they're about a year and a half apart and it was amazing how, in the january of 2018 one, we were kind of diagnosing the problem.
And then i'll never forget Dave, you said you said and i've stolen it totally highway robbery, and I give you credit like two percent of the time.
Where i'll take it, i'll take it.
Yeah, where you said the founding fathers did not like centralized power, it's like that's really smart and it's true.
It's that's why they hated big government.
It's just they'd also hate big google as well.
It's local.
They could never imagine something above government the way that.
That's exactly, That's exactly right.
I'm going to the website right now.
And Dave, we're doing our first live stream on locals soon.
You have top-tier talent here and across the spectrum too, political spectrum.
You have Russell Brand.
You have I see Seb Gorka, Dinesh D'Souza, Dan Bongino, you have Tulsi Gabbard.
Talk a little bit about that, Dave, and how all of a sudden you're seeing top-tier talent from across the political spectrum all of a sudden gravitate around one of the most beautiful fruits of the Enlightenment free speech.
Yeah, well, I'll also toss in one other name, which is Glenn Greenwald, who's a lefty, obviously very critical of the woke left, but certainly a lefty and really has been against state power forever.
He doesn't even really like me.
I don't think.
I'm pretty sure he used to call me racist all the time.
But the point is that we are willing to have a plurality of opinion on Rumble.
We're not really interested in putting our finger on the scales and saying, oh, this opinion should be heard more than that opinion.
No, look, at the end of the day, if you break the laws of the United States, so if you make a threat or you plan a terrorist attack or you try to sell drugs, et cetera, et cetera, the things that we all know are illegal.
Well, if you do that on Rumble, you have a much bigger problem or locals for that matter.
You have a much bigger problem than Dave Rubin, right?
Like you have a much bigger problem than us.
The government is going to get involved.
But we are otherwise an open platform.
We want as many voices on there.
And ironically, that's really all that people want.
You know, it sounds like a very special and rare thing now because we know how Facebook obviously favors certain things over other things, how YouTube obviously favors certain things.
We know that conservatives are always the ones who are shadow banned on Twitter or suspended or deleted, often for saying things that are just months too early to be said related to vaccines or masks or whatever else.
So because we just believe, hey, this is America.
We've built a product.
If you'd like to use our product, use it.
If you break the laws, you got a bigger problem than us.
It's like, this is a very obvious thing that I think is welcoming to everybody.
And, you know, the other piece of this that I think is interesting, when people talk about, oh, there's this behemoth related to big tech and we can never defeat this behemoth.
And it's become so ubiquitous and so powerful.
And we're all walking around with these devices in our pockets and everything else.
The other part of this is that they will crumble under the weight of wokeness.
You know, wokeness where you hire people based on skin color and gender and sexual orientation, you will no longer hire the best programmers because Charlie, you're not going to believe this.
When I hire for my production company or when I was running locals, when we were hiring, we didn't ask what someone's sexuality was.
I did not care what your skin color was.
I know in the modern day, that's known as racist or something like that.
But we wanted to hire the best possible people.
That's it.
We're going to continue.
Yeah, can you believe it?
I know really nuts, really, really out there stuff.
But at the end of the day, that's what we're going to keep doing with Rumble and locals and YouTube and Facebook and Twitter and all of these companies that bring in diversity, inclusion departments, diversity, equity, and inclusion or diversity, inclusion, equity.
Yeah, die.
I know.
It's just so perfect.
You can't make it up.
That's the next step, by the way, is die.
Just die if you're not one of these things.
They're really leading with it.
Balancing Community and Free Speech 00:03:31
It's a little too obvious.
But they will hire people based not on skill.
They will hire people based on these things.
And then slowly you will degrade the product.
If you build a company or you have a governmental organization or a nonprofit or whatever it might be, right?
If you have anything with a mission statement, the second you take your eye off what the mission statement is, the second you say, oh, there's some other thing that is more important than selling the best mousetrap or building the most efficient system to help people or whatever it is that you do, you will degrade the product.
So they will slowly degrade.
And by the way, it'll slowly degrade and then very rapidly degrade.
And we'll just build something better.
And that's what I love about this.
And it's just, there's all these kind of chirpers that criticize companies.
It's hard to build things.
You know, we've built something at turning point.
It's hard.
And building something is the long-term solution.
It really is.
Because if you think about, okay, you break up these companies, well, then what?
Then they'll just, it's like a virus.
It'll turn into something else.
You'll have the Google variant.
Then you'll have the, I don't know, the beta variant or whatever they do.
The meta variant.
Yeah, exactly.
Meta, meta.
Yeah, exactly.
Meta.
I was going to beta.
It was a little bit of a play on words.
But that's what's so exciting about it.
We're starting to really stream here.
It's locals.com.
We're going to use it a lot more.
But what I want to explore with you a couple of things.
Where do you draw the line?
Because I don't like going to 8chan or 4chan.
I think I did that when I was like 18.
And I still have to go to counseling for that.
It was terrible.
Because this idea of like free speech absolutism, you do get a fair amount of anti-social personalities.
I just kind of love to see awful things, right?
So how do you balance that when you create a website?
Because that's kind of some of the tension and the debate happening amongst some people like Tim Poole and others, where they're saying you must allow everything at all times.
Again, having, you know, went to 4chan as a young age, I don't think that's a good idea, but I do want to get your take on it because that's something as a CEO and as a content creator, I'm sure you have to strike a balance for towels are mostly garbage.
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How do you strike the balance between free speech, the pursuit of heterodox ideas, and some of the ugliness that can come with the internet?
Look, speech is ugly.
The human condition is ugly.
People say mean things.
People can be offended.
People can be the offenders.
But I think the best thing we can do is try to live up to the ideals that the founding fathers laid out.
I mean, the First Amendment, the idea that the government cannot compel your speech and cannot stop you from speaking, is pretty freaking close to the way this thing should operate.
It's pretty close.
Defeating Woke Culture Together 00:10:29
Now, we can get into the minutia of what that means when a company is either a privately held company or when a company goes public and has other responsibilities, fiduciary responsibilities to shareholders and all those things.
And I'm happy to discuss any of that if you'd like to.
But the general idea behind what we've done with locals Locals in Rumble is that you are welcome to come here and say what you want.
And as I said earlier, if you break the law, you have a bigger problem than us.
Now, one of the things that I think we did really, really well on the local side was that we handed the power around speech to the creators.
So basically, we build you a community.
People have to pay a couple bucks to get in.
And then you decide who can be in your community and who can't be in your community.
So, in other words, if somebody comes and joins the Rubin Report community, first off, they have to pay a few dollars.
And you're not going to believe it, Charlie.
If you charge people a nickel, literally a nickel, you will already eliminate probably 99% of the bad actors because people don't want to pay just to be a pain in the butt online because everyone is awful and has burner accounts and all these anonymous accounts and tries to attack people because they're anonymous.
There's no skin in the game.
So literally for five cents, I kid you not, I think you could eliminate most of that.
So what we said was, hey, for a couple of bucks, you can join the Rubin Report community and that will clean most of it up.
Now, if you want to spend a couple bucks and join the Rubin Report community or the Charlie Kirk community or any other community, if you want to do that because you hate Dave Rubin or you hate Charlie Kirk, well, now we got a choice here.
Charlie is in charge of Charlie's community and Charlie could say, hey, this guy really doesn't like me.
He says mean things about me in my community, but you know what?
He's paying me money and I believe in capitalism and I'm going to profit off it.
That's number one.
And allow him to say what he wants.
Or you could say, hey, you know what?
I don't want this guy's money.
I'm going to boot him out of my community, but he could still be in anyone else's community.
And that really is how we all deal with free speech.
So if you think about it this way, I always tell people, locals, we build digital homes for creators.
So if anyone is outside of my house on a public street and they're screaming, I hate Dave Rubin.
He's a mean guy and he's friends with mean people like Charlie Kirk.
Well, they can do that on a public street, but I don't invite them into my house to do that.
So I think that was one of the very clever ways that we worked some of this stuff around speech.
But I'm happy to get into some of the more arbitrary or underbelly of the internet.
Yeah, we don't need to dwell on it.
I just find it interesting because, you know, I hate censorship.
I've been victim of it.
So have you.
And at the same time, I do love being able to block people on certain accounts because there's just when I mean the ugliest, you know what I mean, Dave.
I mean people that have anonymous accounts that post like Holocaust jokes.
Like you're a terrible person.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, the question is: all right, so what do we do about that?
So for the people that just want to post, you know, really horrific memes about slavery or about the holidays.
Yeah, precisely.
And they're just doing it because they're antisocial.
It's really, and they're whatever.
Look, look, the internet, Charlie, the internet, you've often talked about this related to devices and young people.
We have been handed this tool in the last 20 years that none of us understood what we were being handed.
And I would also argue that the people who designed it in many cases didn't understand.
You know, the guy who invented Infinite Scroll, you know, remember early days of the internet, even say 10 years ago or so, you'd get to the end of a web page.
Remember, you'd go to CNN.com and there would be a certain amount of stories and you could drag it for a little bit, but then it would stop.
Well, then this guy invented something called Infinite Scroll, which we now all know.
This is an endless scrolling feed, which will deliver you either dopamine on some level if it's positive, but it can deliver you fear and anger and everything else.
And it will go on endlessly, endlessly.
And then when you throw in all the crazy things that you can see online that can either make you happy or sad or whatever else it might be.
The guy who invented Endless Scroll has come to regret it.
He's come to regret it because we've unleashed something that we didn't know was, we didn't know what was in that Pandora's box.
That's what happens with the Pandora's box.
You open it, you don't know what's going to come out, right?
So the best we can do is, I think, figure out ways in our own lives to behave with this technology.
So it would not be my preference to be sitting there or have a team dedicated to sit there and watch for all of the mean things that people could say.
What I would want to do is hand as much power over to the creators.
And then actually, and this is going to sound very conservative, Charlie, but perhaps I really have evolved.
I would want to teach people the proper lessons of life so that everyone isn't adding to the madness all the time.
So that's not to say you're going to stop all of the underbelly internet 4chan people.
And I swear to you, I've never even been on 4chan once.
I'm not even sure what it is, but I know it's something and it ain't good.
It's bad.
I don't think you can stop just what human nature is.
I just don't think you can stop that.
But perhaps we could build a culture around our technology, around our behavior, around whatever our own personal religious or moral beliefs are.
That will be a little bit better.
I mean, I think that's where, again, most things come back to the individual.
It's not the perfect answer, but I think it's close.
No, for sure.
And I recognize that.
And definitely anchoring yourselves towards the idea of like, we don't like, we might not like what you say, but you can say it is totally the appropriate response.
And you're going to have, and you know this, you see some of it, trolls that are going to try to push the boundaries and then be like, oh, why are you censoring me?
It's like, you know what I mean?
It's trying to create a point out of that.
That's never been, the indictment has never been around that, right?
The indictment is like you have people saying normal stuff that just get totally obliterated by these technologies.
Well, you're making an interesting distinction there because I think you're right.
There's a certain feeling amongst some set that's very loud online that, no, everything has to be up there and it's equal and we should have no judgments on anything and everything else.
And it's like, I understand that at some level.
I really do.
But that's not really what we're talking about here.
What you're really talking about and what most, it's not even conservatives.
What most freedom-loving people are talking about is that we thought that these technologies, that these devices and these apps were going to allow a free flow of information.
Except what we realize is they've allowed a free flow one way and a depression on the scale in the other way.
Totally.
So if you were to say, say, eight months ago, that perhaps COVID was leaked from a lab in Wuhan, that might have got you banned or at least shadow banned on Twitter, where now you're allowed to say it.
You may remember, Charlie, in July, the last day of July, right before I went off the grid for the month, I tweeted out something to the effect of saying that vaccine mandates were coming and the vaccines are not working as promised.
And I got suspended by Twitter.
And what happened?
Well, two months later, vaccine mandates were coming.
And it's very obvious that the vaccines are not working as promised.
But Twitter suspended me for that.
And had I not had a locals account where I could get the message out to my audience to start spreading word that I had been banned.
And then I messaged you and I messaged some other people that were friendlies to say, hey, we should draw attention to Dave being suspended here.
Then you can leverage enough outrage, let's say, to get them to reverse it.
But the simple truth is, obviously, guys like you and I are in a very unique situation here where we have those audiences, but they could take out all sorts of people at any given day and none of us would have a clue.
That's exactly right.
So I want to talk about Barry Weiss and Bill Maher.
So I've been a lockdown critic since the beginning.
You have been a lockdown critic since the beginning.
I've never liked the vaccine.
I can't quite recollect.
I think you've been pretty good on autonomy, obviously, medical freedom, the whole thing.
But now what you want.
You want to get injected?
Go ahead.
Yeah.
That's very San Francisco of you.
I'll never forget.
Dave and I spoke at Berkeley with Candace Owens.
We went to Martin Steakhouse.
I tell this story often.
That was the harbinger of urban crime.
Because that was still at a time, Dave, when we thought that San Francisco was actually a civilized place.
It was right on the edge.
That's a different story for a different time.
We come out, Dave's stuff is gone and the SUVs are broken into.
But Barry Weiss and Bill Maher, why are they getting all this credit all of a sudden?
No, this is, I did about 20 unhinged minutes on my show.
Charlie, you know me.
It's pretty rare that I'm unhinged.
But this is really something that I think that if we're going to figure out what a new alliance of freedom-loving people really is all about, and if we're going to get through all of the crap of the last two years, we got to figure this issue out.
So, in essence, what happened was Barry Weiss, former New York Times author who considers herself a good, decent liberal, but she's non-woke and left the New York Times because it was woke, which is very similar to Bill Maher's position on this stuff.
She basically went on Bill Maher and did a two-minute rant about how she's against lockdowns, the Democrats are causing children to be depressed, the school stuff, the masks don't work, all of this.
Then Bill Maher goes on this tirade about how, oh, I don't live in Florida, but Florida is so much better.
But he has to preface it with, I don't live in Florida and I don't want to live in Florida, because that would give too much credit to, you know, scary Ron DeSantis.
And I saw all of these Republicans, including many people who I really like, by the way.
I mean, Ted Cruz tweeted out the video.
I like Ted a lot.
I like Senator Cruz.
I consider him a friend.
He's a good guy.
Clay Travis, guys that I really like, were all applauding it.
And I thought there's something really wrong here because if these non-woke liberals, let's say the 10 of them that are left in America, that consider themselves- And they're all on locals.
Yeah.
No.
Well, look, if these 10 people who basically get it, they're against critical race theory, you know, they're against wokeism, they're against mandates now that it's sort of safer to be against mandates, whatever it is.
These 10 people that are against that neo-racist stuff, it's like, well, okay, then at some point, and I think we're pretty much there, you have to admit that guys like us and conservatives and right-leaning people got most of this stuff right.
And the Democrats destroyed everything in the last two years, which is why Florida is free and New York City is a dystopian nightmare.
And it's why I fled Los Angeles.
Like at some point, you can't just say, oh, I get the issues kind of right, but I'm always late on it.
So I'm too late.
I'm two years after the conservatives.
But then it's like Barry and Bill Maher.
And I posed this question on my show today.
Are you happy that Glenn Young won Virginia?
You should be.
And why didn't you say anything about it?
Did you want Gavin Newsom to be recalled in California?
I don't know that either one of them took a position on it.
Do you regret voting for Joe Biden?
Do you think that Donald Trump and all his supporters are racist?
It's like you got to get to the end.
You can't just go down a road and then get to the end of the road and be like, ooh, now I'm scared.
It's like, get there already.
Enzyme Supplements for Health 00:02:17
Time is running short.
There's a huge alliance that is happening.
Charlie, you and I have been a part of it for a long time for whatever our political disagreements might have been a few years ago that obviously are shrinking at this point.
There is a new alliance that can save this country.
I think it starts in this state that we both live in right now.
But we need some of these people to fully get there.
Otherwise, we should just stop giving them credit.
I think that's so smart.
And I also think there's this, there's this desire amongst conservatives to try to always kind of win the approval of the Marrs and the Barry Weiss's.
And you kind of, as you call yourself a conservative, but you know, and you are a conservative.
I've always thought you were conservative.
I was on that train before.
You said it to me.
I remember in that car ride, you said it to me.
I was like, Dave, you're a right-winger.
That was after we were in stores, Connecticut.
But I think it's really smart, Dave, and it's important.
We're like, hold on, not so fast, Barry Weiss and Bill Maher.
You've been like wrong about everything the last couple of years.
And why don't you recognize the people that actually saw it right?
Because maybe their ideas are rooted in things that are true.
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Building a New Conservative Movement 00:03:47
Dave and I have spoken campuses all across the country, Berkeley, University of Connecticut.
We also did LSU together.
Remember that, Dave?
That was fun.
Almost everybody.
Wait, Charlie, I got one that you didn't show up to.
You remember the New Hampshire one that you, me, and Candace were supposed to do?
In all fairness.
You didn't show up.
You had Kanye showed up.
It was a big thing with Candace and the whole thing.
So I end up at a venue.
It was supposed to be in front of 500 kids.
But because there were so many threats against scary Candace Owens and Charlie Kirk and Dave Rubin, they moved it to a hockey rink for 5,000 people where I gave a speech for 500 kids.
They are yelling at me, throwing things at me, screaming noisemakers.
It was bananas.
It's on YouTube.
But here's why I don't feel bad.
You got millions of views off that content.
I did get a lot of views.
It's everywhere.
I mean, just you made your money back with that one.
So, Dave, talk about the conservative movement, which in some ways people describe it as an anti-woke movement.
Where is it at?
You call yourself a conservative.
You identify as one.
I think you've been a right-winger for quite some time.
Where are we at?
Well, look, I would say that any movement that is going to be real in a true democracy, in a pluralistic society where you, by definition, you are supposed to live in a nation with people who think different things or perhaps have different lifestyles, whatever it might be.
By definition, you should have a wide-tent political movement.
Now, I understand that there are traditional religious conservatives.
There's more libertarian-leaning conservatives.
There's sort of the Trump wing and the anti-Trump people.
There's neocons.
There's all of these people that are trying to fit together with something that on one hand has to do what you just said, which is defeat the woke.
But then also, let's say we defeat the woke.
And I really do think that could be on the horizon.
I think the midterms are going to start to prove it.
But I also think the model, especially here in Florida through Ron DeSantis, the model of how to govern properly by not being a king and actually handing the power back to the people and letting them make choices.
I think that's attractive.
So it's starting to come together.
But what I think the challenge will be, and I think this is where you and I, guys like you and I, can help mold it.
It's like, all right, so there might be, say, more, let's say, libertarian or socially leaning conservatives.
Well, someone like Rudy Giuliani, I think, is a good example of this.
You know, Rudy Giuliani, anyone in their right mind thinks he's a conservative.
Obviously, he worked for Trump and he was a Republican mayor of New York City, et cetera, et cetera.
He's obviously a conservative.
Well, Rudy Giuliani happens to be pro-choice with, you know, he wants some just few week limit on abortion.
There's an awful lot of people that fit on that, meaning that they are conservative when it comes to most of the other issues related to government, and they don't fit into the perfect Republican box when it comes to that.
Well, obviously you want someone like Rudy on your side.
I would put myself in something like that.
So I would say I might be a little bit more on the libertarian side of the conservative movement.
And then maybe on the further to the right of that, you would have maybe more traditional religious conservatives.
But I think the things that we fundamentally have to agree on is that the founding of the United States is good, that our documents based on individual rights and limited government are beautiful.
And then the cultural stuff that maybe we disagree on a little bit, which by the way, I'm completely okay with, that we may disagree on it, but we have to also fundamentally realize that family is good, right?
That handing down generations of knowledge and of history of our forefathers who lived, Charlie, in way worse conditions than us, who only through fighting for freedom made it so easy so that guys like us could talk about ideas instead of having to deal with them on the battlefield.
We have to understand that traditions are valuable, that family is valuable, all of those things.
That I would say is a little bit more on the personal side and not fully a governmental thing.
Exploring Fundamental Western Values 00:01:45
But this is where we're going to have some push and pull.
But I love that stuff.
And I hope that my, say, new conservative friends are willing to continue to have that conversation, which, by the way, they've been completely willing to.
Of course.
Yeah.
And I mean, this is why people like Peter Pogosian, who's an atheist, who would probably be more on, I think, further left than you on certain issues, maybe not.
Sure.
Is willing to be like, let's build a coalition against the woke, right?
And that's where you're kind of seeing that sort of energy coalesce because it is an existential domestic threat.
It really is.
I mean, you know it.
I know it.
These people are willing to use political power to try to crush dissidents.
And it's something that is a serious, a serious threat to the American way of life.
Dave Rubin from locals.com.
I wish we had more time.
Also, buy his book, Don't Burn This Book.
It's a great book.
Don't burn it if you get it.
Don't be anti-liberal in that sense.
But Dave, I want to have you back on.
I want to explore a lot of these topics more deeply with you.
But you're exactly right.
Like the very basic fruits of the Enlightenment, basic things that the founding fathers talked about, separation of powers, consent to the governed, independent judiciary.
These are things that are fundamental to Western civilization.
And Western civilization is a good thing.
And that's worthy of protection and preservation.
Charlie, I know we're tight on time, but now I live in Florida, so we can break bread above ground.
You used to have to come to my underground barber in LA.
Now we can do it in public.
It's wild.
And pay 0% income tax.
Dave, God bless you, man.
Thanks so much for joining us.
Good to see you, brother.
Thanks so much for listening, everybody.
Email us your thoughts as always, freedom at charliekirk.com.
If you want to support our show, you can do so at charliekirk.com slash support.
Thank you so much for listening, everybody.
God bless.
For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to CharlieKirk. com.
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