What Happens When the Media and DOJ Target You with Congressman Matt Gaetz
Charlie sits down with Congressman Matt Gaetz of Florida's 1st District. The two get right into it as Charlie gives the congressman an opportunity to explain how the allegations against him—allegations that have dragged his name through the mud over the last nine months— began not in the court of law, but rather with leaks to the New York Times and extortion attempts against him and his family. In a terrifying insider account into Washington, the congressman explains what these dangerous allegations against him share in common with other "scandals" that have rocked Washington and the country in recent years. The two also discuss January 6th, the role of congressional oversight, and the future of committees in 2022 and beyond. If you've ever wondered exactly how fundraising, committee appointments, and the swamp’s media machine actually work, you won't want to miss this exclusive sit down with one of the most influential and talked-about congressmen in America. Support the show: http://www.charliekirk.com/supportSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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Expose Corporations Spending Your Money00:02:36
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Hey, everybody, welcome to this episode of the Charlie Kirk Show.
With us is Congressman Matt Gates.
Don't Buy From People Who Hate You00:10:20
Matt, how are you doing?
I'm great, Charlie.
Good to be with you.
Just got married.
Congratulations.
You as well.
As you said, this is the newlywed show.
It's the newlywed show without the women, so it would be a pretty lame newlywed show.
So let's get to the thing that some listeners might be curious about.
You've been in the news the last nine months.
Floor is yours.
What's going on?
Well, it's never fun to be the victim of a crime.
And I'm glad that at least one of the people who was involved in extorting my family not only has been charged, but has pled guilty.
It's my expectation that there are more people that were involved in that attempted extortion.
And I want to get to the origins of it.
You know, I see a certain pattern recognition whenever the deep state wants to go after someone.
The first thing they do is they seed a lie.
And then they need that lie retold.
And when that lie is retold, it justifies their action that otherwise wouldn't be appropriate.
That's what we saw in the Russia hoax.
They seeded this lie that Trump was a Russian agent.
And then at the end of the day, they were trying to throw him in jail for obstruction of justice.
We see it more recently with the DOJ targeting parents who showed up at school board meetings.
First, they went and seeded the lie in the National School Board Association and then used that as a basis to put threat tags on parents.
And with me, they seeded some really horrendous lies and then used that to try to take me out of the national conversation.
But we learned a lot from President Trump about how you ought to react and respond when you're in the barrel.
We've all spent our time there.
And I'm proud to be sort of looking ahead to the work that we have to do in the Congress to be worthy of the Republican majority that is, I think, forthcoming.
Yeah, and we don't have to spend the whole conversation on this.
It wouldn't be worth it for anybody.
But I thought it was disgusting how there were leaks to the New York Times to try to destroy your character, absent any actual legal vote.
Or even an accusation.
I mean, I felt at times like I was living through America's longest sex scandal without an accuser.
Well, but it was more than that.
It was multiple issues, right?
There were other weird things that they were trying to pile on around it.
And yeah, it was really trying to kind of destroy a career and destroy an influential voice by rumor, by like well-sourced rumor, right?
Like we're the New York Times, we know something you don't know.
And sure, sure, it's pretty reprehensible, honestly.
And we're familiar with that dynamic.
We're familiar with that pattern where the New York Times, the mainstream media sort of act as a conduit to justify very dangerous, very bad people in our government doing bad things to people.
I mean, remember, it was the Michael Issakoff piece in Yahoo News that the FBI went and planted.
I don't remember.
Well, yeah, no, the FBI goes and plants a piece with Michael Isakoff and Yahoo News saying, oh, Trump is a Russian agent.
And then they went and used the piece that they had planted to justify their FISA applications.
Well, we have constitutional rights for a reason.
It's supposed to protect us from tyrannical government.
And you're supposed to know what you're accused of before your rights are taken away.
But the kind of middle ground that has been developed is, well, we can destroy your credibility, force you into resignation, try to destroy how people view you, you know, outside of any of that.
And that's unprecedented.
And there's a real echo chamber for it.
I mean, when you see the unity of purpose between the corrupt elements of our government, the corrupt elements of big tech, and the corrupt elements of mainstream media, that can really create a whirlwind and a cyclone.
And by the way, we're now seeing that play out with this BS January 6th investigation, where you've got the January 6th committee in secret conducting interviews and depositions, selectively leaking Mark Meadows' text messages or other references, and then trying to use that to build a case that wouldn't stand if it was subject to the license.
Well, and not even asking questions about Ray Epps or any of these other revolver.
We've covered it extensively.
We've had him on the show.
I was just talking to Marjorie Taylor Greene about this.
And I think that part of the conservative impulse is to reject and to oppose.
And I get that.
But I think there's an opening where he says, hold on.
You want to get to the bottom?
Okay.
Who planted the pipe bombs?
I'm just curious.
If that's now going to be the new national conversation, then let's play ball.
Do you think that they are having to threat construct around January 6th?
Because as we look at the landscape in Washington now, Democrats have literally nothing to run off.
Yeah, of course.
I mean, it's a smokescreen.
And I think that increasingly the censures and the obsession with Paul Gosar's anime or Lauren Boebert's jokes are really for they really tell the direction the Democrats are going because they expected that this infrastructure bill was going to create some updraft in their polling, that it would help their frontline.
No one cares.
And I think it's done the opposite.
People are like, wait, you're spending more money on electric vehicle stations?
Yeah, I mean, People are worried about the kitchen table economics, and the infrastructure bill doesn't do anything for kitchen table economics.
And I think that is the major problem they face.
And so, what they're there's a certain like 2004 Bush-Cheney energy to this, if you think about it, right?
George Bush thought that he was going to have this No Child Left Behind education bill to run on, and it wasn't popular.
And so, in 2004, he and Cheney said, you know, those Democrats are dangerous, and if you vote for them, you know, you won't be safe.
Now, I think you see Democrats kind of running that Bush-Cheney playbook saying, Well, we haven't really done very much for you, but the Republicans are all insurrectionists and terrible people, and so continue to give us power.
None of that's working at all.
And actually, the deeper they dive into this, the more exculpatory evidence they're actually coming across.
That's a good point.
And so, look, I'm really frustrated that the national conversation has to be hijacked by January 6th committee.
But if that's the case, if that's really the powers to be, I think that Darren Beattie's instincts say, okay, you want to play ball around that day?
Like, who's Ray Epps?
Why hasn't he been arrested?
Yeah, I think history will ultimately view this as more of a Fed surrection than an insurrection.
And I think that the Darren Beattie evidence is very compelling on that point.
And we have seen a pattern yet again of federal assets really accelerating the criminal acuity of events.
I just want to be clear is that I didn't like at all what happened that day.
I don't like violence.
It was a terrible day.
Anyone that would smash windows at our Capitol or walk into the Capitol just kind of belligerently, I don't like it, and I want you to be held accountable for that.
And hitting police officers is totally unacceptable, right?
But those people should be held accountable under the standards for those violations of law.
Absolutely.
It shouldn't be supercharged.
As if it was Timothy McVeigh, right?
No, of course.
But the point that Darren Beattie made was not excusing any of that violence.
In fact, he denounces it in his piece.
He says, who is this Ray Epps that might have been encouraging it and inciting it?
And someone who might actually have been choreographing the crowd, who knows how to say perfectly placed statements, or how to throw gasoline on a fire, or how to remove a gate of entry where proud boys might be marching towards.
Those are really important questions, right?
And the reason they're important is because the entire construct, right, of the left's narrative is that Trump incited this thing, which of course is not true.
So if incitement is now the most important thing to discover, how about the guy that is like mega alpha on top of the steps multiple times, including the night before, saying, we got to go into the Capitol.
We got to go into the Capitol.
And the instincts of the crowd are like, no, you're a Fed.
And again, this is all allegedly.
It could be that Ray Epps is, man, it's almost impossible to believe he's anything but someone that's involved in federal law enforcement.
Because he hasn't arrested.
Exactly.
I mean, that's the point.
Yeah, what gives up the game is that Ray Epps was on the list of targets.
That's a right-hand left-hand thing.
Yeah.
And he's not going to be able to do that.
Meaning that some low-level FBI agent just didn't know who Ray Epps was, put him on the website.
And then someone was like, no, no, no.
Like, no.
Yep.
Well, the question I get around the country from our fellow Americans is, well, who's going to answer these questions for us?
Because whether it's January 6th, whether it's kind of the origins of coronavirus, whether it's the criminal activity of the Biden family, which is extensive, Americans want to believe that if they give Republicans power, that we will actually use it to answer these questions.
And frankly, many of my voters, many Republicans, feel a little spurned by Republicans who've broken promises in the past.
I mean, we promised we were going to repeal Obamacare.
I can't recall how many times Lindsey Graham was on Sean Hannity's show saying he was going to be calling Hunter Biden in any moment to answer questions, and that didn't happen.
Or just even more basic stuff is we're going to get to the bottom of the Comey stuff.
Like, we never got that.
But here's why I think.
During the era of Paul Ryan and Trey Gowdy, they wouldn't authorize a single subpoena to be sent, not one, during Republican control.
Is that right?
And Gowdy never sent a subpoena to the center of the center.
Not a single subpoena.
Even Benghazi?
Only polite letters around the Russia hoax.
No subpoenas?
Is that around the Russia hoax?
There was not a single subpoena around any of the Gowdy stuff.
I didn't know that.
Yeah, and so Paul Ryan had a vision of how Republicans ought to behave in the majority with a Democrat president.
It was pass a bunch of bills, get the Democrat president to veto them, and then claim a moral victory.
That is not the fight we are in today.
I totally agree.
So, and I've known Kevin for years.
I text with Kevin.
He really respects the base.
We disagree on some fundamental stuff.
But Kevin's saying he's going to do subpoenas.
He's used that word.
Subpoenas and Moral Victories00:15:10
Is that right?
Do you believe him?
I think that it has to be more of a structural change.
Right now, the way to become a committee chairman in the Congress is to have the special interests and lobbyists who seek to influence that committee want you to be the chairman because then they launder the donations through the NRCC and through congressional leadership funds to try to get that person in that place.
And so you have a universe of committee chairmen who are essentially captive to the lobby core for that particular committee.
I want to flip the script.
I would love Kevin McCarthy to say every committee in Congress is going to be an oversight committee.
And we're ditching the seniority-based system that hands over power to the well, but that's what we have to do.
Honestly, if we just hand the gavels to the silver-haired valets for the special interests, we're not going to answer.
Jim Jordan being chairman of a committee is a good thing.
I don't know if you're going to do it.
Jimmy Jordan does a great job.
Yeah, no, Jim's, I think Jim will be chairman of the Judiciary Committee or if he has the authority from on high.
And I think Jim is one of our best members when it comes to pursuing oversight.
Jim has actually said if he becomes chairman, he's going to create an oversight and investigations subcommittee of the Judiciary Committee, and I intend to chair it.
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So it looks like the Republicans are going to take back the House.
I see almost no possibility that isn't the case.
Is that right?
Well, I wouldn't measure the speaker's office for drapes quite yet.
You know, the macro generic ballot gives us a lot of tailwind, but you actually have to go win specific campaigns in specific ways.
You got to go beat Golden in Maine.
You got to beat a Slotkin in Michigan.
And you got to beat Lauria and Spanberger in Virginia.
And these folks have run competitive campaigns and they have won them.
And so I don't take it for granted.
We have to have compelling candidates.
And that's why what Turning Point has done with this America conference, this pro-America conference we've been enjoying, is so important because it actually gives our candidates the right tone, the right message, the right infrastructure to be able to go and win.
And I think that if we just say, well, the generic ballot looks good for us, we could look past some of these specific tacticals.
Yeah, I think what you're talking about is we also have to play to win, not as if we've already won and just play defense and talk about corporate tax cuts, right?
Yeah, I mean, Zombie Reagan isn't coming to save us.
And so, you know, just sort of hearkening back to the zombie Reagan issue matrix won't be helpful.
Our voters are not going to trust candidates who don't say that they value the people's vote.
Yes.
And that means pursuing election integrity.
And this isn't impossible.
We've done this in Florida.
We were the laughingstock of the country in Florida.
And you get a good leader like Ron DeSantis, you fire the people who can't.
Brenda Snipes or whatever her name was.
Oh, yeah.
I mean, we got rid of those folks in the first 10 days of the DeSantis administration.
And now, lo and behold, we count the ballots as they come in, not hundreds of thousands in a night when certain urban areas seem to be almost waiting to figure out how many ballots they can will into existence.
And so I think that election integrity issue is very important in a lot of these primaries that I see playing out across the country.
I totally agree.
I think if Republicans run on specific promises they can deliver, and they actually deliver them, then I think that they're going to be rewarded.
And the biggest promise is answers, meaning that you're not going to be able to get a border wall under this regime.
It's not going to happen.
But you can say, why is the border wide open and what's the scandal around it?
We could prove where the virus came from and America's involvement in it.
We can get into Pfizer, AstraZeneca, Moderna's, and Johnson Johnson's connections to the CDC.
We can get into the IRS targeting conservatives because I believe that's happening again.
I hear a lot of stories.
Oh, they're building their 85,000-person army to conserve.
Thanks to President Joe Manchin.
I don't know if that's going to happen.
Well, let's hope.
I have a separate theory on that, but go ahead.
Yeah.
Yeah, I think that we have to take that a step further.
If we answer those questions, then what we'll do is we'll connect the pain that Americans are feeling right now with the bad choices that the Biden regime's going to be.
It's going to require Kevin McCarthy.
And I've given this advice privately.
There was a great article on Axios.
It was like 75% of the way there.
And again, it could be all smoke or it could be good.
Well, you got to get 75% of the ways.
What I know first.
Here's what I know.
Kevin McCarthy is not Paul Ryan and he's not John Boehner.
That's what I know.
And Kevin put in the article from Axios that he's going to get to the bottom of the origins of the virus, Afghanistan, whatever.
It needs to be a church and pike committee feel, though.
Meaning, like it needs to be the church and pike committees with the CIA investigations in the 60s and 70s.
And that changed the way people viewed the intelligence agencies.
It needs to be something that's not just reports.
It needs to result into action.
But you know that personnel is policy.
We saw this in the Trump administration.
You and I were on the first day.
That's a good Morton Blackwell one of a lot of those personnel decisions.
And if Kevin McCarthy says those things to Axios, he has to back it up by saying we're going to ditch the seniority-based system.
And instead of committee chairman, prospective committee chairman coming and pitching, oh, well, this is the bill I want to pass, or this is the interest group I want to please, they have to come and say, you know what, I want to chair ways and means, and here are the first three investigations I'm going to start.
I want to chair education and labor, and this is how we're going after the Biden Senate at UPEN.
We need to have a deluge of subpoenas happening in every place.
So let me ask you, this is an interest, this is a weird question.
But so you visited the D.C. jail and they didn't let you in.
Is that right?
It's correct.
I got half the government wanting to throw me in jail and the other half locking me out.
So I guess the question is: do you have a member of Congress have visitation rights to other agencies?
Yes.
Matter of fact, it really is unprecedented what's going on at the DC jail.
When Trump was president, you had Rashida Tlaib and Pramila Jayapal going down to the border and going into almost any detention facility they wanted to.
Yeah, but like, so when you get, why don't we just show up, like, not we, but you guys just show up at the IRS office once a month.
You know what I'm saying?
Like direct action.
That's what you're talking about.
Like see people walk into their office.
I think that's a totally different thing than like, oh, yeah, get back to me in June.
Yeah.
The Republican majority that I hope we establish would believe more in those direct action steps.
I don't think people elect us just to go vote yes or no ones.
I think they want us to be representative of their interests.
That's why when Adam Schiff was running the sham Ukraine impeachment down in the bunker of the basement, I showed up and 50 people and we blew them out of this.
The shift skiff.
Yeah, that was over after that.
You know, that's why I showed up with Marjorie Taylor Green and Louis Gomeert to the jail, to the Department of Justice.
But frankly, we need to grow our allegiance.
It's different than when four or five people show up than when 40 or 50 show up.
Well, yeah, or it's just like, hey, there's 10 congressmen and they're going to the Department of Justice and you're going to let them in.
They're going to sit in a conference room on the fifth floor and they're not going to leave until they get answers about the National School Board Association letter.
Now, that right there, I've asked constitutional lawyers, they're like, yeah, I guess you could do that.
The question is, the executive branch, they can't lock out Congress from walking into these buildings.
Like enough of the committees, enough of the like well-rehearsed, just show up at the Department of Energy and be like, hey, do you guys want to get rid of fossil fuels?
Because you sure say that a lot.
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What you're talking about, I think, deconstructs the performative nature of the committee program.
No, that's exactly what I'm saying, though.
This is legit oversight.
Right.
It's like we're showing up in your conference.
It's direct action.
We're not leaving.
Like, I'm a congressman from Oklahoma, and you got to give me answers by the end of the day.
That's a refreshing reverse.
If you think about it, like, that's the way oversight would have been done in, like, 1820, right?
Like, if you think about it, they would just like show up.
Like, yeah, just go to the Department of State and figure it out.
But now it's all theater, isn't it, Matt?
Well, it is true, and we've talked a lot about this, Charlie, that, you know, most members of Congress spend most of their days raising money.
It's terrible.
And really raising money for the sake of redistributing that money as like chits in a power.
Yeah, so I'm not supportive of this.
I'm open-minded to it.
I see upsides and downsides.
Is it time to publicly finance our elections?
I am not a fan of that because I don't believe that taxpayers think that money should be taken from them involuntarily to fund the ambitions of politicians.
And I don't think it's necessary.
I am regularly one of the top fundraisers in the Congress, and I don't believe I've asked anyone for a check in four years.
And it's because in the mail and online, people give $25, $50.
I mean, Donald Trump revolutionized small dollar giving on the Republican side.
It was really something that didn't exist on the Republican side.
So you would cap the limit, maybe?
You'd say, like, hey, $1,000 limit, no PAC money.
Yeah, I want to publicly shame the people that are.
I know, but let's be honest.
What from a policy standpoint needs to change, right?
Because it's an attitude that has to change.
Because you're not going to get the policy change otherwise, Charlie.
They're not going to do it.
They are so addicted to that PAC and special interest money, and it is gross.
Well, let's walk through how it works, right?
So you have like Citibank, but Citibank can't give money to a politician, but they can start a PAC, right?
Right.
And so Citibank can give a bunch of money, then the PAC can give you like $10,000 or whatever, right?
Oh, but then also Citibank can hire lobbyists.
Yes.
And then those lobbyists can write personal checks.
And then, that's right.
And then they can hire lobbyist firms.
Yep.
Right.
And the lobbyist firms can do fundraisers for you with other firms have their own firm package that their clients could do.
Yeah, so that's another flow.
And then they can give to the National Republican Congressional Committee, the leadership fund, which is give you credit for it.
Hey, I'm going to go to the Republican Party and I'm going to write a $10,000 check.
And I want that to be credited to my good friend, you know, Congressman Gates or Congressman whomever.
And then they could also go to the super PACs that are created outside of the orbit, right, and write a $5 million check.
Is that correct?
Yeah, but you know what my approach is?
Bring it on.
That is the Kinzinger play that's going on right now.
Adam Kinzinger is out there from the lobbyists and the special interests trying to be the maestro of that special interest money ecosystem.
And my response is, you know what?
It's still not more powerful than what I do because there are actually more of us than there are of them.
I really think people are waking up to that.
I really do.
I think it used to be like whoever had more money won.
And I'm not sure if that's the case anymore.
I really don't.
Well, it's about how the money is used, too.
We have so many new ways to distribute content.
There are fewer choke points, I think, as particularly conservative media becomes more fragmented, less homogenous.
And it's an exciting time to bounce ideas off each other, to find inspirational candidates and campaigns.
There are a number around the country that I think are really going to flavor the Republican Conference in a meaningful way.
Yeah, those are some very serious, like actually substantive changes that we should be talking about.
Okay, so I just want to get your kind of thought on this as we close, because we've got to go do our radio show.
It's the most depressed, most drug-addicted, most drug-overdosed, least married, most suicidal, least childborn generation in American history.
Why?
Wow.
That's your closing question, Charlie?
Yeah, it's really uplifting, right?
I do think we are experiencing a national malaise.
And it really began a lot during the Obama administration.
This notion that we've just sort of kind of arrived as a country and so it can kick back.
And we experienced great decline.
And in a lot of ways, Trump willed us out of that.
Maybe not even with policies, maybe just with just a hard-charging pro-America attitude.
And there was, you know, now this, I think, kind of guy doddering around the Oval Office, and it's not a very inspirational thing.
And, you know, those drug policies you mentioned, I think in many ways are a consequence of federal policy.
I don't think that's entirely societal.
I think Purdue Pharma and Big Pharma family.
Yeah, got a lot of members of Congress and regulators to do what they wanted.
People got addicted to this stuff, you know, legally through prescriptions.
Then we had this massive overreaction where people couldn't get prescriptions anymore.
It turned folks to street heroin.
Now that is being replaced by the fentanyl market because the Sinaloa cartel can cook it easier than they can move it.
And we're in a time of decline in a lot of places in America.
I still think this is the best country in the world.
I still think we can get out of it.
And we have seen how fast it can be turned around.
There was a lot of this concern about the country during the Obama years.
And it's pretty cool how fast we flipped the switch when we got Trump in power.
So, I mean, we had to live through Jimmy Carter to get to Ronald Reagan.
We had to live through Obama to get to Trump.
And we may have to endure a little more of Joe Biden to get to something even better.
We Can Get Out of This00:00:35
Matt, how can people follow you or help you?
MattGates.com is my website.
C-A-E-T-Z.
That's right.
I got a podcast called Firebrand.
We release an episode every Thursday.
And we're not in the Charlie Kirk sphere, but it's a good way for folks to know what's going on behind the scenes in Congress.
Matt, thanks so much for joining.
That was a lot of fun.
Thank you, buddy.
Thanks so much for listening, everybody.
Email us your thoughts.
As always, freedom at charliekirk.com.
And if you want to support our show, go to charliekirk.com slash support.
Thanks so much for listening.
God bless.
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