For Such a Time As This with Kayleigh McEnany and Erika Kirk
On this very special episode, Charlie's wife, Erika Kirk, interviews former White House Press Secretary Kayleigh McEnany about her time in the Trump Administration. From wardrobe malfunctions in the White House, her mom's daily prayers and advice, to the moments just before she would take the podium for the first time, hear how God help guide Kayleigh through some of the toughest days in the Trump White House and how she managed to navigate it all with her signature grace and strength that became an inspiration for millions of people across the nation. Support the show: http://www.charliekirk.com/supportSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Faith and Facts on T-Shirts00:03:35
Hey everybody, my wife's conversation with Kaylee McEnany.
They hijacked my studio.
It was kind of awesome.
And you should support her by going to Biblein365.com to read the entire Bible in a year.
It kicks off on January 3rd, cover to cover, every page, every verse, every syllable of the Bible should be inputted into your central operating system.
So go to biblein365.com.
That's Biblein365.com.
And to support Erica's streetwear, go to proclaimstreetwear.com.
That's proclaimstreetwear.com.
Kaylee McEnany, you can buy her book for such a time as this.
She was very generous with her time.
Two amazing Christian women.
I'm partial to one of them, as you probably know.
Buckle up.
Here we go.
Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.
Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus.
I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.
Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.
I want to thank Charlie.
He's an incredible guy.
His spirit, his love of this country, he's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point USA.
We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.
That's why we are here.
I am here with the most amazing woman.
You are a phenomenal role model to so many girls.
You are a woman of God.
You're a mother.
You're an author.
You're incredible.
If anyone can't see this, I'm with Kayleigh McEnany, the one and only.
But you were our strong voice in the White House for the longest time when there was chaos everywhere.
Yeah.
We just, every time you stepped up to that podium, we knew that you were going to give us the facts.
Absolutely.
Yeah, it was important.
There are actually t-shirts that say facts on it, which I'm very honored to be.
Thank you for that.
And thank you for the kind words, Erica.
I feel the same about you, a strong woman of faith.
And you and Charlie are just what a powerhouse couple.
So it's an honor.
Every time I get to come to Turning Point USA, we've crossed paths so many times from Young Women's Leadership Summit to the...
And you did phenomenal there, too.
The girls were just on the edge of their seat, just listening to every word and soaking it in.
And being a role model and having the weight on your shoulders every time you walked up to that podium, what was going through your head?
I know you talk about this in your book, but what would go through your head before you stepped out there and walked up to that podium?
Were you just saying prayers?
Were you saying a Bible verse?
Like, what were you, what was going through your head?
Yeah, it's a great question.
I certainly, you know, though I projected confidence at the podium, oftentimes the steps up to the podium were not so confident.
They were filled with nerves and apprehension.
Certainly the first time I did it, I mean, I was in tears in my office and I'm supposed to be at the podium.
It's my very first briefing and my assistant comes in, you can't be crying right now and puts my parents on speakerphone and we said a prayer together.
And then I went to the private West Wing bathroom and got on my knees and said a prayer.
And then I went to the podium and people like Mike Pence were so wonderful.
He motioned towards me with praying hands and said, you know, I've been praying for you and I love the verse you tweeted out, Philippians 4, 13.
I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.
So while I was very nervous, there were great Christian men and women around the country praying.
One was Sarah Sanders, my predecessor, who told me before each of her briefings, she read a Jesus calling devotional.
I happened to have the same devotional and I would read it.
And she sent me the day of my first briefing, her devotional from exactly two years prior, which said, you know, essentially you're on the path of my choosing.
Prayer in the West Wing00:05:43
Don't worry.
But I couldn't help the human side of me from worrying.
But when I stood at the podium, I felt total serenity that first time, like I was standing somewhere.
I had stood a thousand times.
Like it was somewhere I was meant to be.
And so the calm that I projected was not anything that I achieved.
You know, yes, we put in the hard work and the facts and the research, but it was something so much bigger than me.
And it was because of all of the people across the country who prayed for the Trump administration.
I hear it all the time, and we certainly felt those prayers.
Yeah, and it was divine.
True.
Yes.
And I feel like your career path in general has been divine.
I feel like God has really guided your steps throughout everything.
And for me, I hear a lot of young men and women when I was living in New York City, especially saying they wanted their dream would be to be on Fox or their dream would be to be on the news.
And as you know, this industry, the news industry, can be ruthless.
Hollywood industry in general can be ruthless.
But when you were going through this career path and you, before you got to Fox and before you got to be where you are today, how would you handle rejection when you were going through the motions of, I'm almost there.
I'm almost there.
Yeah, it's important.
You know, I had a million shut doors in my face.
Right.
You're right.
These industries can be brutal.
The swamp is no exception.
You know, if you think media is intense, just mosey on over to the swamp and see what politics is like.
It's honestly eye-opening.
You know, I would watch that.
There's some film I'm blanking on it right now, the one with Kevin Spacey in it.
Oh, gosh.
Do you remember?
It's that series.
I'm like, House of Cards.
Oh, House of Cards.
Yes.
While like no one has like so savage.
Right, right.
While like no one's pushed in a metro.
And they go a little far in that show.
I will say, it is pretty brutal.
It's competitive.
People, you know, I'm someone who, with the press, I would never leak for personal purposes or for any purposes.
I wasn't a leaker.
You provide information on background to help support the president and the administration.
That's separate from leaking maliciously in an unauthorized fashion.
But that happens all the time.
Oh, yeah.
So, you know, from that to shut doors along the pathway, you have to be confident and know that God's leading the way.
And it's not always easy.
Look, I had shut doors, and my mom and I would sit at our counter at home in Florida, and we'd sit there and just have many nights up until 1, 2 a.m., you know, just saying, okay, this door's shut.
How can I have another one open?
And ultimately, when I look back in life over this maybe 10-year path from 12-year path from leaving college and going out to Fox, where I started and then into politics, I now look back, having been press secretary, oh, wait, these doors were shut for a reason.
You know, if that door would have opened and I would have furthered my career at CNN, where I was for a year and a half, that door would have opened.
I wouldn't have gone to Washington to the RNC and then to the campaign and then to the White House at the podium.
So every shut door looking back in life had a reason and a purpose.
And I didn't know that then.
It's immensely frustrating when you're like, do this.
Yes.
But just trust that God's leading your path.
And I think that's the biggest piece of advice I can give.
If a door shuts, there is a reason.
There's a reason.
And especially just remember, not just me, but anyone listening, you know, you are made for such a time as this, as they're 414.
That's meant for all of us to hear.
And you just trust and work hard.
Amen.
I totally agree.
And you've been in many situations where you've had to problem solve.
And not many people can think on their feet and problem solve the way that you did, whether that's at the podium with the binder.
I loved that, by the way, because when school supply season was out, I got the binder, the pens, the notebooks, everything.
So when I saw that, I was like, we would have been friends in middle school.
Yes.
But no, but when it comes to problem solving, I feel like you made it look so easy.
I can't even imagine how many problems came to you daily.
And what would be your go-to for problem solving?
Would you write out like the different solutions, the pros and cons?
Like, what would be a way for you to problem solve?
So I had two very smart, trusted aides, Chad Gilmartin and Julia Hahn.
And the three of us were just obsessed with the political process, obsessed with the White House and the different problems that would emerge, like getting PPE or supplies or testing for COVID-19.
We were all just obsessed with our jobs.
And so we would sit there by the fireplace in my office and just strategize for hours and hours.
And if I didn't think of one question the press would ask, they would fill the gap.
And together, the three of us really managed to figure out how to accurately convey information to the American people.
And it took, you know, number one, researching the facts and the data, which some of that you could aggregate from public sources or news reports.
But what's neat about being in the White House is you don't have to just rely on that.
You know, as a commentator now or host of Outnumbered, I go and my sources are news articles and, you know, I discern what's the best information and move forward.
But when you're in the White House, you are the primary source, which is really cool.
You know, I think back about the relationships I made, be it with Alex Azar, the head of HHS, or Brett Jois, who was in charge of really the supply chains or was a big part of it.
These were guys I would call every day and say, tell me the latest.
You know, what have you sent out?
And, you know, it was extremely neat to have access to the world's brightest minds, top leaders, be it at HHS or at DHS with Chad Wolf, and they'd give you inside information on what's going on in their agency.
And you could bring that information to the American people.
And, you know, it's really cool to be press secretary because you're just not reading articles.
You're talking to the people making decisions about the nation's biggest problems.
Totally.
Yeah.
So I enjoyed it.
It was a job that I loved.
And I think people always say, was it stressful?
Certainly, but the key was we had fun doing the job.
And I think that's what made it so much easier.
A Beautiful Temporary Journey00:08:58
Totally.
And I remember, I think it was Young Women's Leadership Summit.
You had shared with Charlie some of the background of your book and some also like random embarrassing moments.
And the one that I will never forget was when you talked about your wardrobe situation that happened in the White House.
And I just sat there and I was mortified.
I was mortified.
But my question, though, about clothes and everything, are you given a wardrobe or do you just pick out your own wardrobe or is someone daily being like, no, no, no, you can't wear that color.
That color is not good today.
You can wear purple on Thursday, but not today.
Like, is there someone that's helping with the wardrobe side of things?
My mom.
I love that.
Yeah.
So in the White House, yeah, I had that wardrobe mishap where I had a dress that zipped all the way up the back and it literally split open like one of those robes that you wear to the doctor's office.
Oh, I know.
And then the president, of course, calls me in.
It's like day five on the job.
And I like wear a winter coat all throughout the White House.
And it's still the winter coat split open in the back.
So I had to like lean against the wall.
It was terrible.
But my mom, you know, helped a lot with that.
I remember one day I did not consult her and I wore like a flowery dress to the podium and I immediately got a call.
Why did you wear that?
That was not appropriate for a White House press secretary.
That was, you know, something you wear out to lunch with your friends, but not at the podium.
So I'm very grateful for my mom.
She has good classy advice.
No, for sure.
And your family is amazing.
The last time I met them, they were really sweet.
And I love how close you are with them because that in some similar way.
And I feel like you were always raised to be a woman of God.
That's been something that your family has always instilled in you, especially your dad and your mom.
Your sister's super sweet as well.
Your husband's great.
And so as a woman of God, is there a Bible verse aside from, I know you mentioned Philippians, but is there a Bible verse or something else that you would, if there was just a moment where you were like, dear God, I don't know if I can do this today, that you would hold on to or memorize?
Or was there a scripture that your parents kept reiterating to you?
Or maybe not a piece of scripture, but something they would reiterate to you when you were younger about like, God's got this.
It's okay.
Yeah.
You know, there are a lot out there, certainly.
But I think one really hard day in the White House, my White House assistant, who is a friend of mine and a young woman of faith who was raised that way by two great parents, much like your own or my own, she, instead of giving me a daily schedule that day, she put a list of Bible verses.
That's cool.
Yeah.
And one stuck out to me, and it was 2 Corinthians 4, 17.
For our light and momentary troubles are achieving for us an eternal glory that outweighs them all.
So focus not on what is seen, but what is unseen, because what is seen is temporary and what is unseen is eternal.
And it made me realize what I'm seeing right here at the White House, whatever the problem is, however tough of a day it can be, you know, this is temporary.
It's fleeting.
It's momentary.
The trouble, the hurt, the pain that you're going through is fleeting.
It's momentary because there's this eternal life that awaits those who trust in Christ.
And, you know, that eternal life is.
what we're all working towards.
It's easy to lose sight of that.
You know, I'm someone who I get busy and I'm like, I didn't read my devotional today or Blake and I forgot to say our prayers because we're in a hotel room.
You know, so it's not, I'm in no way a perfect virtuous Christian, but I do try my best.
And I think if we can keep our focus on the eternal, it helps to not become so consumed with the temporary and the problem, let the problem block you from the bigger goal.
Totally.
And so your book, For Such a Time as This, My Faith Journey Through the White House and Beyond, this is amazing.
Thank you.
I thought it was really sweet that you did the dedication to your daughter, Blake.
Super cute.
Thank you.
And I'll read it because I just think it's really sweet.
You said, for my daughter, baby Blake, your smile melts my heart.
Dream big, find your purpose, and then move mountains.
You were made for such a time as this.
And I think that's so beautiful.
And you have phenomenal reviews about this book.
I think everyone should have it on their shelf because you are such an inspiring, amazing woman.
And if someone were to just grab this and be like, okay, not everyone has time to read or listen to an audible, if there's one chapter in here that someone could just gain insight into what's going on or something that you were, you were like, this chapter is my favorite chapter.
What would that be?
Yeah, it's a great question that I have not been asked yet.
I would say probably the final chapter, a parallel journey.
And I began talking about, you know, my battle with the breast cancer gene.
That's what they call it colloquially, but the BRCA2 genetic mutation.
But the chapter, and I had a preventative double mastectomy, so I'm fine.
You know, I'm never going to get breast cancer.
It's a very, very, it's like a 0.001% chance because of the surgery I had.
But, you know, I've told that story before, but I think the way the book ends is very powerful.
And it's about how, you know, for some reason in my life, you know, God, I had a scare with an ovarian situation because this gene puts you at risk of ovarian cancer as well.
But it ended up being fine.
But for a while, I thought, oh, they might have to remove one of my ovaries, maybe both.
Maybe I won't be able to have a child.
And, you know, I always had that desire in my heart.
And I also always, you know, loved adoption.
So I thought maybe God wants me to adopt.
But literally a year after that scare, I'm dancing with baby Blake in the White House.
Two years after that scare, I'm dancing with her in the White House.
So for some reason, God allowed my situation to turn out that way.
And who knows what the future holds, you know?
But for some reason, I talk about the story of Jeremy Camp, who got, fell in love at a young age in college, got married to a beautiful girl named Melissa, and she succumbed, unfortunately, to cancer at a very, very young age.
And she has this beautiful monologue at the end of this movie that depicts their journey together.
And she talks about realizing that she's one star in a bigger constellation of stars.
And this woman of such strong faith, you know, as she is on her deathbed is manages to say, you know, I'm just one star and, you know, the stars that flame out the quickest burn the brightest.
And she has this beautiful, you know, monologue.
And I say, you know, for some reason, my journey is turning out this way.
Who knows what the future holds?
And her journey with ovarian cancer turned out a very different way.
And I don't know why that is.
And I don't know why we have sickness and plagues and horrible things and family issues, but God can use your trouble to achieve a greater eternal glory.
And I think the way it ends should be uplifting to anyone going through a hardship.
And I think, you know, it's an it's an important chapter to read.
That's beautiful.
Absolutely.
And so in closing, what is something, how old's baby Blake now?
So she just turned two.
Two.
It's crazy how fast it goes.
It's a wild.
So what do you think you would tell her in this book or in your life when she's in high school and just living her life?
And you reflect back on this time and you reflect back the moments that are within these pages.
What would you tell her?
You know, I think I saw Charlie actually giving a speech and I am paraphrasing because I don't remember exactly what he said, but I thought it was such an important message.
He was talking to a room of young people and he talked about self-worth and value and people who are battling with suicidal thoughts or whatever problems that are plaguing young people.
And there are a lot.
If you see this, the social complexes people are having from social media and it's a really hard environment.
And I worry about my daughter.
You know, I'll raise her with the right values, but there's something going on with young people.
There's a tremendous amount of depression, drug use, and there's just, I think we're at a cultural tipping point where they're trying to insert really insidious ideologies into the classroom.
And it's a much harder path, I think, for a young person today than even it was for me.
So I think the message of that Charlie gave about self-worth and God having a plan for you and a purpose, I think it is so important to ingrain that into our young people.
I certainly will ingrain it into my daughter because whatever demons she'll have to battle growing up, depression, whatever it may be, God forbid, if she knows there's something so much bigger and there's someone to turn to, get on your knees and pray no matter how you're feeling.
And God can make a bad situation better.
I think that is the one message I want her to have going through life, similar to the one that Charlie gave to a group of young people.
And it's so important today more than ever.
You're sweet.
Well, I'm so proud of you for such a time as this, my faith journey through the White House and beyond.
Everyone, like I said, needs a copy.
And so you are amazing.
I can't wait to see what's in store for you for next year and the year beyond and for such a time as this.
Well, you are amazing.
Charlie is so lucky to have you.
We make a good team.
You do, but Charlie is very, very blessed.
And we'll all have to hang out in Florida.
I would love that.
Until next time.
Yes.
Thank you so much for listening, everybody.
If you want to support our show, go to charliekirk.com/slash support.