UNFILTERED: A Long-Form Debate with a Deranged Pro-Abortion Activist
*WARNING: Graphic Content.* In a long-form, action-packed second edition of a new, regular installation on The Charlie Kirk Show, Charlie is joined LIVE in Phoenix for 'Debate Night' by so-called "comedian" Ben Gleib to debate the right of human beings to live—both inside and outside a mother's womb. Though the debate gets contentious at times, this episode of The Charlie Kirk Show can hopefully serve as a vital resource for anyone looking to strengthen their argument in favor of life. Tune in to 'Debate Night with Charlie Kirk' on TPUSA LIVE to watch these debates live as they air by going to TPUSA.com/LIVESupport the show: http://www.charliekirk.com/supportSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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A Circus of Provocation00:03:51
Hey, everybody.
All right.
Today on the Charlie Kirk show, it's my debate brought to you by Turning Point USA, Debate Night with Charlie Kirk with Ben Gleib.
So I want to talk a little bit about this before the episode starts.
This conversation was a circus.
It was quite honestly a clown show.
I was generally very happy with how I conducted myself.
I got a little heated here and there.
This guy considers himself to be a comedian.
You can make the judge whether or not he's funny or not.
But I just want to say this because some people, as we post these debates, we get some angry emails about kind of the content that's being discussed.
This is a vulgar discussion.
I'm not going to sugarcoat it.
If you have children or you have grandchildren that you maybe listen to the podcast with, maybe this is not the right episode.
We talk about abortion.
It gets too graphic for my liking, and I try to retreat it from there.
But I did want to post this episode for a couple of reasons because this is a real viewpoint that is held by half the country.
That as the sarcastic, venomous, very, let's say, dishonest approach that Ben has in this debate, albeit something that I think is going to be quite honestly unpleasant for a lot of you to listen to at times, it's a real thing and it must be confronted.
And so I just want to make sure all of you know what you're getting into.
Maybe it's not for you.
Maybe you just go to another episode and download another episode.
But if you're like, hey, I want to see a pro-life, pro-abortion debate on filtered, this is for you.
He's a nasty person.
I don't say that lightly.
I actually did not say that against Dr. Rashad Ritchie.
And I'm not going to say that with our upcoming debate with Dr. Burgess.
I think it was a rather pleasant conversation.
This gets into the gutter.
I refuse to take the bait many of the times.
But again, if you're someone who just kind of wants to not get irritated, not get your blood rate up, you know, your heart rate up, then let's just say you've been warned.
So I don't want to get some sort of email and say, Charlie, he was so terrible.
It's all this.
I can't believe you posted it.
This is your trigger warning, everybody.
But I think it's useful.
I do want all of you to listen to it if you can bear it, because I want you to know what we're up against.
I want you to hear him tell people that he thinks they should get abortion and how to get abortions quickly and on demand.
And so if these conversations you think are useful and need to keep happening, support us at charliekirk.com/slash support.
That's charliekirk.com/slash support.
And if you want to get involved with Turning Point USA, that helps make this debate possible.
That is the sponsor of this debate.
Go to tpusa.com and get behind the work they are doing.
Well, we are doing at Turning Point USA, but it's obviously brought to you by this episode.
If you want to come to our campus tour, it's tpusa.com/slash CRT.
It's tpusa.com/slash crt.
We have an event at Baylor University coming up, Boise State University, University of Vermont, Clemson, Alabama, and University of Oregon.
If you want to go to that, and then come to Phoenix, Arizona, everybody, December 18, 19, 2021 at tpusa.com/slash amfest, the largest pro-American celebration.
It's going to be amazing, everybody.
tpusa.com/slash amfest.
There's a couple points of this debate where the sophist, which is what he is, tries to trip me up about the definition of a birthday and kind of what a human life is and tries to, I think, be very unfairly and dishonestly focused on linguistics and on kind of just again, sophist type arguments.
If you know what a sophistication is someone that tries to make things sound smart in ancient Greece, but in reality was a communicator of deception and of treachery.
But I will say this: that there were a couple of responses I wish I would have handled a little bit differently.
Generally, I was very happy with how I kept myself more in check and self-control.
I asked good questions because you tried to provoke me many different times.
The Messy Debate Continues00:04:30
This conversation is one that you've been the final warning.
It's a mess.
Okay.
When you guys email me your thoughts, freedom at charliekirk.com, just you'll you'll understand exactly what I mean by that.
I am interested, though, in the general sentiments and the thoughts behind it.
I learned a lot.
It is an overstatement, but I learned a fair amount about how to better communicate some of these ideas.
I hope that all of you as well will get that perception.
This is the most important issue, whether or not we are disturbed by a million babies every single year being aborted.
My opponent thinks it's no big deal.
And that's where that conversation starts.
All right.
Buckle up because you're going to need it.
Turbulence is underway momentarily, everybody.
Here we go.
Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.
Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campuses.
I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.
Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.
I want to thank Charlie.
He's an incredible guy.
His spirit, his love of this country.
He's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point USA.
We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.
That's why we are here.
Hey, everybody.
Welcome to this episode of Debate Night.
With us tonight is Ben Galieb.
I say that right?
Perfect.
Kirk, right?
Extraordinaire.
That's what they call me.
We are honored to be here tonight to be discussing all sorts of things, but specifically, we're going to be talking about abortion, the way it will work.
It's very structured, and then we will enter into the laissez-faire and regulated portion of the conversation.
Feel free to interrupt each other and have all sorts of fun.
And so it'll be two minutes, two minutes, and then a series of one-minute back and forth.
And then off to the races.
Opening statement will go to our guest.
And we have here today on the set two people who thankfully were not aborted.
So Ben, first statement for you.
When we're done with this debate, maybe you'll be questioning that statement.
About you?
About yourself.
We'll see.
Thanks for having me.
Thank you.
So this is obviously a pretty contentious issue, one that affects women around the country, of course.
So I think it's best that two men are debating it.
And it is, actually, though.
I say that sarcastically, but really it is because we all need to be able to support each other.
And so I wanted to, I prepared some things to say at the beginning, just food for thought to go.
I'd like to start by quoting a woman who wrote a very interesting article in the Washington Post.
Very funny article, too.
She said about some of the hypocrisies of this position being anti-choice.
We believe in freedom.
Your fist must stop where my nose starts.
Except this one minor thing is obviously not a big deal, where you have to use your body to build another body from whole cloth, give it eyeballs and a circulatory system, undergo months and months of creeping bodily horror as your torso becomes unrecognizable to you.
Familiar smells become off-putting.
And then at the end of this process, you have a human being for whom you have to arrange a life.
Compare that minor, barely palpable discomfort with the shocking, invasive horror of placing a strip of fabric across your nose when entering a business for three to five minutes.
I shudder just imagining it.
You can cough and breathe on whoever you like.
It's a God-given right.
Nothing worse as a human than to have to conceal your exquisite nose.
We don't believe in restricting anyone from living as he chooses, unless, of course, it's tangible, minor things like who wants to vote or get abortions or both of which are going to disproportionately, of course, impact people of color.
But does that matter?
I guess not.
After all, it's your body, and of course, we view your autonomy as sacred and worthy of protection.
It's just that if your body contains a uterus, it does not technically belong to you.
It's more of a vacant lot for us to regulate as we see fit and your neighbors to be encouraged to sue about.
So no matter our race, our gender, or our zip code, that's the end of the quote.
This is me now.
I believe we all should be able to come to a consensus that we can decide for ourselves whether and when to have children.
But a handful of politicians today are trying to pass laws that destroy our freedoms, undermine our rights, and endanger our futures.
They make decisions that force people to struggle, to simply make ends meet or care for their families and then shame and blame those that they forced that into.
And while they're busy fighting for our most basic rights, they hand the money that they take from our health care and our schools to our kids' futures and their corporate donors.
We are in a democracy, not a theocracy, and it's nuts to allow government to think they can have a say in the choices a woman makes for her own body.
And the last most important point is that by doing this, women will die.
Defining When Life Begins00:09:26
Young girls will die.
Without safe places to go for abortions, they will still find a way to get.
Our daughters, friends, nieces, teachers, mothers will die.
Would you rather your daughter die if you have a daughter one day or make a safe choice for her own life or decide to start a family for her own life?
And if you choose, die, how is that pro-life?
Thank you.
Okay, so I think the entire kind of framing of this debate first needs to start with the type of privilege that we have.
Both you and I have age privilege and size privilege to say that we believe that certain life should not exist.
There's been 62 million abortions in America since the ruling of Roe versus Wade.
So if you go to just a seventh grade textbook of what is a living being or what is a being that has some sort of life, it will say that it's distinct and that it's whole.
What makes a human life so incredibly unique and so magical is you do not need to encourage or tell that life to grow.
It's not like a Corvette on an assembly line, is that that human life will develop naturally.
This really kind of goes down to the question of when does human life begin?
When does personhood begin?
And the science of embryology says very clearly that life, human life, begins at conception.
Now, speaking non-scientifically as a moral argument, we have overseen the slaughter of our fellow citizens over the last couple decades.
This is a genocide.
Dare I say a holocaust of our citizens that has occurred since Roe versus Wade?
You talked about women.
Well, just statistically, half of the 62 million abortions since Roe versus Wade are 31 million women that never had the chance to live.
We have a luxury and a privilege that we are able to say we are old enough and developed enough.
We're larger and we're older to say to another life right now that's in the womb that you have no right to exist.
You talked briefly about the racial part of it.
900 black babies a day are aborted every single day in this country.
We need to have a moral question here of when does life begin?
What is a human being?
If it is not your DNA, it is not your choice.
And we as a human, as a society of human beings, the least we can do is ask ourselves the question, are those people, are those persons in the womb worthy of protection?
I would contend absolutely.
It is the most important moral question I think we as Americans and we in a free society can debate and discuss that all life is worthy of protection.
Loves it.
So lots of problems with what you said.
Let me start picking them apart first.
As a Jewish person, I take large offense to comparing a life that never got to exist to a Holocaust which killed my family who did get to exist and were snuffed out.
To say those are even comparable is deeply offensive, but let's put that aside for a second.
You said that the definition by your own words and by the science of embryology is that life is distinct.
But an embryo is not distinct of the mother whom it is literally attached to and dependent on it for all nutrients and all survival.
If it can survive in this world, if it can take a breath and go on to live, that is a distinct being and you've got a great argument there.
But without that, you simply do not.
And you also contradicted yourself when you said that it is life and then a minute later you said never got the chance to live.
A life had a chance to live if it's a life, right?
So in fact, it did not have a chance to live because it's not a life yet until it is born.
Boo yah, baby.
Okay, so you understand how dumb that argument is?
I don't understand.
That's like saying you never had a chance to live if I killed you right now.
What I'm saying is that the baby was alive and it got murdered in the womb, therefore it never had a chance to live past the point of it being alive.
What I meant is that it never had a chance to live to a five-year-old birthday or a 15-year-old birthday or a 30-year-old birthday.
Again, using age and size privilege that you have and I have, you say, you know what, we should be able to quash and quelch the 62 million human beings that never had a chance to live outside of the womb.
Here's the basic syllogism that I bring as a pro-life advocate: it is always wrong to intentionally kill a human life.
Abortion is intentionally killing a human life.
Therefore, abortion is morally wrong.
And so you're going to be making an argument about choice, but some choices are wrong.
For example, it's wrong to kill human beings.
So you're going to have to make an argument to the audience why either A, this is not a human life, or B, why the mother has the right to murder her own child.
Sure.
I'm going to choose the former of those options.
Why I do not believe it is a life.
And it's easy to make that point.
But let me first say this.
You are saying that it is a life that got snuffed out.
And I don't mean to pull my age privilege on you, but I'm a little older than you.
How old are you, Charlie?
27.
27.
How come you didn't say 28?
Because I'll be 28 in two weeks.
But if life begins at conception, you're 10 months older than that and you actually are 28.
Why don't you say 28?
Because that's the way we categorize birthdays.
That's the way you celebrate your life.
It's the way we acknowledge life.
That's the way we cut the birthday begins when you are born.
So I'll let you know.
If life begins at conception, I'll lay that.
If life begins at conception, you would count your life from the moment that egg was fertilized.
When you were the size of a poppy seed, not even a poppy seed, but after a couple days of poppy seed size life that you're celebrating that great birthday.
But you don't because you don't actually believe that it is a human life.
You do believe the, if you believe the science, it's quite obvious that it is the germ of a life.
It's the beginning of a life.
It's the beginning of a gestation of a life.
If you're building a cake, baking a cake, you take the ingredients.
When that cake is done, you got a cake.
No one is saying it's a cake when it's ingredients that will become after baking a cake.
And if you throw that cake away because it doesn't come out properly into ever being a cake, you don't say, man, you just threw away a perfectly good cake.
No, you say, that cake never became a cake.
So I'm just curious, and we'll just kind of go into the on your cake guy, perfect.
Please take a look back and forth.
So when does human life begin?
I think the human life begins at birth.
At birth?
Yes.
So it's okay to terminate a child right up to nine months, full development, full birth, full breath, feeling, all of it.
No, I don't personally believe that.
No.
So when is a human life worthy of constitutional and legal protection?
I believe that a human life becomes one that we should do our damnedest to protect when it is viable outside of the womb.
That's my belief.
So what do you mean, viable?
When it can survive without the mother being connected to the body, you're three or four years old.
If you can hunt and gather on yourself, a two-year-old is totally dependent on the mother.
Should we be able to kill two-year-olds?
You should have seen me as a two-year-old.
I was very crafty.
So how about 18 months?
Listen, some kids can survive on their own.
So your moral position is to be able to kill six-month-olds because they have to breastfeed for their mother.
No, no, no.
I'm simply saying when something is attached and dependent on the nutrients of life on the ability.
No, a six-month-old.
A six-month-old is going to go hunt and gather and grow their own crops.
Nobody could probably crawl around and find some crumbs on the ground.
We live in a society that's not.
That's a degree of dependency of crumbs created by somebody else.
You understand?
Everything's dependent.
Hunting and gathering is dependent on our being animals.
A 15-year-old or a 20-year-old has the reason, the capacity, the maturity to be able to not be dependent on other human beings.
I don't know if you're seeing any 15.
So, your moral position is that if you are dependent on another, you should be able to be terminated.
No.
Okay, so what is your moral position?
Like, when does human life begin?
That should be protected by the law.
I think human life should be protected by the law when it is born.
Because that is the only marker we all agree on.
You yourself said.
Well, I'll tell you why, because you yourself have said that, and it was a really well-made point that you made, and I'll quote you back to you.
You said we have a universal standard for when death is, but we do not have the universal standard for when life begins, and we should.
And then you go on to say, and I believe life begins at conception.
I do, yes.
But you then put your own personal belief at the end of that great quote.
We do currently have a universal standard that we all agree when life begins, at least, and that's from birth.
Some believe it begins earlier, but not all.
If you want the universal story, I'm totally on board with that.
So I'm actually 28 years old.
Thank you.
If you want the, someone changes Wikipedia.
If you want the universal standard, you so seek.
The universal standard we currently have is from birth.
So my very important point to you here is: if you want to work harder to get that universal standard to change and to convince the populace to get on board with redefining that, do so with argument, do so with fair, good faith argument to get the population on board and change the position of the country.
Great.
I'm all for you trying to do that.
But until you do, the universal standard of when life begins is when somebody is born.
Life doesn't exist without being alive in life, in the world.
Life is life.
Until you're in the world and have a consciousness and the ability to think.
Life begins when life begins.
That's the current definition of it.
And definition of words.
The Sperm and Egg Argument00:06:57
The science of embryology is when deoxyribonucleic acid is formed.
So I just want to make sure we're clear.
That's the science of embryology, not of lifeology.
That's when an embryo begins.
You made up a word called liphology.
And you made up a science of embryology as though that's the same thing.
I did not make a science of embryology.
It is a well-studied and well-connected.
Well, you're jumping and leaping that that is what life is.
So do you think when DNA is formed, it's okay just to eliminate it?
It will never be formed again.
It is distinct.
It is unique.
It is whole.
The science of embryology says it starts at conception.
Well, that's a great, that's the science.
You're 62 million human beings that were never able to live outside of the womb.
And you're a genocidal murderer every time you masturbate, Charlie.
Why?
Because there is DNA in sperm.
No, but that's a sound.
And every head of sperm has DNA.
First of all.
And it is a distinct thing that's swimming around.
Never fertilized with an egg.
Hundreds of millions.
Never fertilized with an egg.
And flushing down the toilet.
Why?
And never fertilized with an egg.
So let me ask you.
So why is that your line?
If you're, because that's what I said, when a unique DNA is formed with an egg, that's what the science of embryology says.
And the science of science also says.
You understand how dumb you sound, right?
The science of spermology also says that sperm is alive.
Do you deny sperm is alive?
Do I deny that sperm is alive?
That is my own sperm.
And your fixation with sperm is like creepy and kind of weird.
Your fixation with women's wounds is creepy and kind of weird.
No, actually.
My moral position to protect the unborn is one that I wish you had.
I wish you had that same dedication to protect the born children in this world.
Well, I do.
So let me ask you a question.
You don't have six weeks.
The child's eyes and eyelids, nose, and mouth and tongue have formed.
Terminated.
That's okay?
Child's eyelids, nose, mouth, and tongue.
Terminate?
Well, they're not real human ones.
They're developing ones.
Got it.
So electrical brain activity can be detected at six or seven weeks and by the end of the eighth week.
Terminate?
Not a human.
It's not a human.
Got it.
Okay.
By 10 weeks after conception, a child can make bodily movements.
It's half a centimeter big at this point and point 2.5 of an ounce.
I'm taller than you, so I should be able to terminate you?
No, because we're talking about scale.
How tall are you?
I'm 6'4, much taller than you.
6'1.
So your moral argument is taller people should be able to terminate smaller people.
Got it?
That's what you said.
It's small, therefore you could terminate it.
No, you're not.
As early as 12 weeks.
And certainly by 20 weeks, an unborn child can feel pain.
Is it okay to terminate a child that can feel pain?
Pain, that is a disputed scientific fact because pain without the ability to understand any sort of context is not pain as humans know it.
They register what is happening, but it is not pain as though, oh man, this hurts.
So if something can't register the pain, it's okay to torture something.
Correct, if it can't register the pain?
So if someone is on a ventilator, someone is in comatose and you torture them, that's morally acceptable.
It cannot register the pain, then it's not registering the pain.
Let me ask you a question.
Are you okay with abortions for people that found out they are pregnant with Down syndrome children?
I wouldn't do it.
Are you okay with it?
Is it morally okay for a society to embrace that?
I haven't thought about that.
I think a lot of people with Down syndrome live beautiful lives.
So are they worthy of protection?
That's not a fair thing to ask.
Why?
Because I'm saying that fetuses with Down syndrome or fetuses without Down syndrome are not children.
So you're going to a specific within the whole, but I'm arguing that all of it is not a human life yet.
So you're going specific.
So let me ask you a question.
What species is it on the animal kingdom?
If it's not a human life, what kind of life is it?
It's not a life yet.
Well, you just said it was a human life.
Well, I did not say it was a human life.
So it's not alive?
It is not.
So something with eyelids, nose, mouth, and a heartbeat is not alive?
What is it?
Is it dead?
So a sperm with DNA and a head that can swim and find an egg is not alive?
Is it dead?
Well, it's not been fertilized with an egg with unique female.
It is almost dead.
Because according to science of embryology, that sperm, when it is firm with an egg, creates a new being of deoxoribonucleic acid that is formed, that is magical, unique, and distinct only to that moment, therefore worthy of conception, and begins the process of the development of a full human being, where the sperm independent of that does not have that.
Again, your fixation with sperm, kind of weird.
My sperm is magical and unique and worthy of the conception you said too.
I got good sperm, and that's just a public service announcement for people that want to know that.
You can't say my obsession with the first building block of life is weird, but your obsession with six hours later or three days later when it hits an egg is not weird.
But you admit there's something magical that happens once that sperm and egg meet, that a human life begins, that process begins, that a new DNA is formed, where two beings become one.
Don't you admit that?
I think it's as magical as the incredible thing that we are given sex drives that compel us to ejaculate and that compel women to drop an egg to have the potential to receive life.
That is as equally magical.
But you don't contend those are lives.
You don't think someone having a period of time.
Let me ask you a question.
You don't think sperm ejaculation is.
So since you're so bizarrely fascinated with sperm, you're bizarrely fascinated with women's bodies and regulating them even though you're not a woman.
I am very fascinated in saving babies' lives.
I will not stop advocating for that.
So let me ask you a question.
Since you're fixated on sperm, a sperm absent meeting an egg does what?
It dies.
Once a sperm meets an egg, uninterrupted from abortion interference, does what?
Oftentimes it will fertilize it, obviously not always.
And live.
No, and begin.
And grow.
And continue.
I even begin.
Continue the building block.
Develop.
It continues.
And live a full life.
That's not true.
So your argument of your kind of creepy fixation with sperm, which is that the sperm, absent the fertilization of the egg.
I want to keep saying creepy fixation on sperm because you have a creepy fixation with controlling women's bodies.
So stop that phrase in life and grows.
If I'm making a story, if I'm a story.
You're the one that wants to interfere and destroy.
I'm not hearing this point because you're able to grow.
If you don't make a scientific argument, then don't make a stupid point over and over again about part of that scientific argument.
I'm just clarifying the lack of wisdom in your argument.
Where do you say sperm independent of meeting an egg does what?
It dies if it does.
So once the sperm meets the egg, uninterfered by an abortionist, it does what?
It dies.
And in the middle of the fifth.
No, it lives.
A sperm meeting an egg.
Uninterfered with an abortionist that does not.
Sometimes yes, sometimes no.
But when it does develop, it eventually becomes you when it's born.
Or me.
When it's born.
Or our fellow human beings.
And when it doesn't, when it leads to a miscarriage or an ectopic pregnancy, it doesn't lead to those things.
And then abortions can, or not even abortions, DNC procedures can help clear that out so that a woman can go on to have a family in the future.
Challenging Medical Expertise00:02:40
Let me ask you a question.
You're so against abortion and protecting lives.
No, I'm very pro-baby.
But you are okay with abortion if it saves a woman's life.
Why?
So actually, I'll clarify that.
That's so exceedingly rare.
And in fact, over 1,000 OBGYNs, nurses, and neontologists sign a declaration stating, quote, as experienced practitioners and researchers in gynecology, we affirm that direct abortion, the purposeful destruction of an unborn child, is almost never medically necessary to save the life of a woman.
So in the extraordinarily rare case, which is so hard to find and pinpoint, the only way to...
Well, it's not so hard to find.
It happens, and there's many.
Very rare.
Well, these 1,000 OBGYNs say no.
That's great.
And there's a lot that say yes, and it happens, and you're aware it happens.
So try not to use a distracting statistic.
You're okay with it in those rare instances.
Why?
Because there could be other children in the future that's my whole argument.
However, if a woman's not ready to have a child now, there could be other children in the future when they are ready to raise them to life.
I will correct my own previous statement by saying I don't even think it's ever medically necessary because these 1,000 OBGYNs and nurses have said you can have cesarean sections.
That's not to say there might not be necessary medical treatments, but to use abortion as the medical necessary treatment, I think is almost never the case whatsoever.
Case closed.
No, you can't say case closed.
I'm going to trust the 1,000 OBGYNs.
Who say it's hard to pinpoint and it's rare, but...
Do you not trust the 1,000 OBGYNs?
I don't know who they are.
There's millions of OBGYNs out there.
The 1,000 say you're wrong.
And the 100 million others say that I'm right.
Let me ask you a question.
You retweet Planned Parenthood quite a lot.
Sure.
What do you have to say about the Planned Parenthood founder, Margaret Sanger, who's a eugenicist, who says, we don't want the word to go out that we want to exterminate the black population?
Does that bother that Planned Parenthood is a eugenicist organization?
I've never heard that quote.
How about this one?
I doubt the authenticity of that quote, but if it's true, I obviously condemn that quote.
How about this one from Planned Parenthood founder Margaret Sanger?
Human beings, our goal is to eliminate human beings who never should have been born at all.
Or birth control is nothing more or less weeding out the unfit.
Are you comfortable associating yourself with eugenicists?
I'm not comfortable associating myself with eugenicists or that quote, if that answers your question.
Can I ask you a question?
Sure.
Awesome.
Because I got plenty for you.
Awesome.
How many children do you have?
None yet.
Why?
Well, I got married in May, so it's a work in progress.
So you're working on having kids soon?
Why haven't you adopted yet?
Are you going to adopt kids that are in need of help?
So I do kind of live a busy life.
But I would love to adopt.
Dolphins, Babies, and Eugenicists00:02:36
Actually, it's on the table.
Okay, awesome.
So Charlie's going to adopt soon exercise.
Essentially.
At eight weeks, we have tails.
At eight weeks, an embryo has tails.
Do humans have tails, Charlie?
I'm sorry, what?
Serious question.
Do human beings have tails?
I'm not exactly sure the essence of a tail.
Do human beings have tails?
Do you have a tail?
You know, I have never met anyone with a tail.
I'm not exactly sure the other thing.
Exactly.
But fetuses have tails kind of proves that at that phase, they are not a human being.
They got tails.
Humans don't have tails.
We're not dinosaurs.
Let me even show you a photo, if I may, okay?
Do you truly, in your heart of hearts, truly believe that this is a human being?
Without a doubt.
Without a doubt?
Yes.
This is a dolphin fetus.
So let me say.
Without a doubt, a dolphin fetus is a human being.
This is a human fetus.
Look how similar they look, but quite different.
Dolphin.
You just confirmed that a dolphin in life, do you confuse dolphins for human babies often?
So let me...
You go to SeaWorld and you're like, someone's got human babies in that aquarium.
Get the human babies out of the aquarium.
Well, you labeled it as a human fetus.
No, I did not.
Dishonest.
No, I did not.
I didn't label it as anything.
Let me put a human fetus on that.
Let me ask you a question, though.
So let's hold up those two pictures again.
Sure.
Is there a moral difference between the dolphin and the baby?
At this stage, no.
No, no, no.
You just confirm that.
Now, let me ask you: a human and a dolphin, is it okay to kill one and not the other?
Is there a difference morally between a human and a dolphin?
I don't like to kill dolphins, but of course.
Do you like to kill babies?
No, I don't.
And when they're living, I certainly am not in favor of killing either, but obviously I protect a human over.
Hold up the human one.
Sure.
Is that not alive?
No, it is not alive.
Well, then, well, how is it able to have a heartbeat?
It's attached to an alive being called a woman.
Wait, so it doesn't have a heartbeat, does it?
No, it doesn't have a true heartbeat.
Oh, yes, it does.
At some point, it does.
22 days after conception, the child's heart begins to circulate.
Not alive?
That is also disputed science and damage.
After six weeks, the child's eyes and eyelids, nose and mouth, and tongue of form.
Not alive?
It is not a heartbeat at 22 weeks.
So, wait, hold on.
It's either dead or alive.
Which one is it?
That is not true.
It is becoming...
Pick one.
It's dead currently.
Oh, it's dead.
It's not alive.
It is not alive.
So you were once dead?
You defined life as distinct.
It's not distinct.
It's attached to somebody feeding it.
Distinct means on its own.
No, is it not attached to its mother?
That's a different, that's autonomous.
Distinct is the same.
Distinct means it has its own DNA, its own composition.
That's the definition of the word distinct, is its own DNA and composition?
Well, that's the so it's it is unique.
So is sperm, and so is eggs, and so is everything.
Dolphins are unique.
That doesn't mean you can or can't kill them when you put them in aquariums.
Viable Children and Abortion00:16:00
There's a million abortions every single year.
Do you think that's too many or not enough?
I think it's whatever the mother decides with her own family is the right move for their life, and it's none of our damn business.
So if a mother murders an 18-month-old, is that okay?
No, it's not a human being.
It's an autonomous body.
So it becomes a human being the moment it comes out of the womb.
Right.
So what do you say about the youngest pregnancy ever done?
22 weeks and one day.
That baby is now one year old.
Was that not a human being when it was delivered by C-section?
I don't follow.
Say that again.
So last year, the youngest ever human being on record was delivered at 22 weeks and one day.
That baby is now one year old since the time of that birth.
This is now a living baby, you're correct.
Okay, so as soon as it comes out of the womb, it is living.
That is correct.
If it's alive when it comes out of the womb, we don't know, right?
A lot of babies die at childbirth.
That's why you don't know in a lot of time.
Not a lot of babies die at childbirth.
Yeah, a lot.
Very, very low.
Can someone Google that for me, please?
Can you please Google how many babies die at childbirth every year?
We have some of the lowest childbirth mortality rates in the world, thankfully.
No, we do not.
We have some of the highest.
We have some of the highest.
United States infant mortality rate places us 16th among the nations of the world.
How many nations are there?
Thousands of infants die each year because of inadequate medical care that you often vote against and don't support.
I'm not elected official.
But you support things and you have the influence of millions.
You don't have a vote?
Are you suppressing your own vote now too, or just others?
Are you saying that I vote in Congress?
I'm saying that you vote in elections and you decide who goes to Congress, do you not?
And do you not support bills or not support bills based on your massive city?
I know you're getting really worked up.
No, I'm not.
So let me ask you.
Also, we rank 33 out of 36 in the Organization of Economic Cooperation and Development Nations, OECD Nations, ranked by U.S. News and World Report for prenatal and early childhood care that you often do not support.
In fact, recently, when Biden suggested just $225 billion to support children more in the early years of their lives, you went against it and said, oh, capping it, while theoretically, you paid empty lip service to it and said, well, theoretically, it's a good idea.
$225 billion is so expensive, and it caps the amount they can spend on their children at 7% of income a year.
And by doing that, there's no incentives then for them to seek cost-effective care when you had no problem with Donald Trump spending $8 trillion, giving trillions and trillions of tax cuts to millionaires and billionaires and raising the national debt to $27 trillion.
Can I be aware of that?
No issue with that.
But helping the kids that you care about so much, the babies you care about so much, that you want to force women to give birth to them, and then they can go f ⁇ themselves once they're born because you don't give it.
And you vote against it constantly.
Bravo.
What a hill to die on.
I have no idea what the heck you're talking about.
You don't?
Well, you've went on the record about it.
That's pretty incredible.
You don't know what I'm talking about.
I'll find one of your notes.
I got a lot of cards.
Let's talk about the Holocaust that's happening in our country.
Say a Holocaust again.
You're going to have a problem with me because, again, my family died in that.
Let's dive right into that.
So there's a Holocaust happening in our country of a million abortions a year of our fellow countrymen.
That's your offensive word.
So the Holocaust that's occurring administered by Planned Parenthood has a disproportionate impact in the black community.
In Texas, 70% of all abortions are minorities and 37% of all abortions are blacks.
Why are you okay with that?
Why are you okay with dictating what the black community should do?
Now Charlie Kirk should decide what the black community does?
Actually, I want more black people.
Do you want less black people?
You should tell them how many babies they should have?
I want to protect all black babies.
Except with funding.
So here's the right question.
Except with helping them have easier lives.
If you want less black children, I want more black children.
That would be a racist position.
Oh, no, you're the racist position.
I want the exact number of black children that the black communities decide that they want and black mothers decide they want to give birth to, and not force them to do so, and especially not force them to do so and then not provide any of the funding necessary to lift them up out of oftentimes poverty situations.
Oftentimes you are forcing people to not only then give birth to babies they don't want, but then you're sliding them further into poverty.
It costs about a million dollars over the course of a lifetime of a child to raise a child and it's easy for you to say you're a trust fund baby who was born rich.
As easy for you to say when you've never had to struggle for money.
These people are born in difficult circumstances.
They get pregnant accidentally or at the hands of an abuser, the hands of a rapist, the hands of of a mistake when they were 16 maybe it's their third child and their husband and them had sex and accidentally got pregnant and you're forcing them to have it and sticking them further and further in poverty, with no effort and no funding to help lift them out of that.
But you care so much about babies that you think are dolphins, so what percentage of abortions are rape that are attributed to rape.
Do you not think rape exists?
I do.
What percentage of abortions are attributed to rape?
I don't know, but Any of them is too many.
Any pregnancy due to abortion.
What percentage of abortions are attributable to rape?
I don't know the answer to that.
What is the number one reason given for abortion in America?
Did you know that one in four is they are not ready to have a child?
And that can't do it.
So you're okay.
I just want to make sure the moral position.
Not a child, unless it's born, even though it can feel, even though it can breathe, even though it has a heartbeat.
Can't feel it.
It can't breathe.
No, we already went through this, all right?
So feel and can't breathe.
You're entitled to your own opinion, not to your own facts.
Correct.
Correct.
You too.
You are taking the anti-science position.
No, no, no.
That's from as early as 12 weeks, and certainly by 20 weeks, an unborn child can feel pain.
And by 10 weeks after conception, the child can make bodily movements.
Electrical brain activity could be tected to six or seven weeks.
I've never denied they are not growing into becoming human beings.
But what percentage of abortions do you think are attributable when people say, I got it because I was raped?
What percentage?
I bet it's a pretty low percentage.
Yes, less than 1%.
Yes, but that's one out of 100.
So most are abortions out of convenience.
But you, convenience is a word you use to frame it as somebody being irresponsible.
Not being ready to bring a child into this world.
It's not convenience.
It's smart family planning that you are against.
You're against planning parenthood.
You're for forced parenthood.
You're not for.
Let me ask you a question.
You're not for life.
You're for forced birth.
The rape question aside.
Wait, why the rape question aside?
Because it's such a small percentage.
No, but the legislation, you keep taking these slices that you don't want to deal with and throwing them away.
Since you did some images, let me ask you a question.
Wait, wait, hold on.
One second.
One second.
Let me ask you something.
So when a child is born and or when a child is going to be born and risked the life of the mother, you say that's so rare it doesn't count.
When someone is raped, that's so rare it doesn't count.
One in a hundred times, though, what happens?
Well, it certainly counts.
Why do you not push for legislation that has exceptions for rape and incest?
Why?
Well, because it's just equal human life, and I'll prove it to you.
Equal human life?
So which one of these?
I have two pictures.
Yep.
One of these babies was conceived in rape.
One of these babies was conceived in a consensual relationship.
Which one's which?
You know why?
Obviously, I don't know the answer to that.
Because they're both human beings.
No, because I wasn't involved in the traumatic life experience of the mother that one of them resulted in rape and one didn't.
So one of these babies.
Every time you speak about abortion, you always skip over the mother who gives life to that baby and raises it just to be a bad person.
Which one of these babies was formed in a consensual relationship or not?
Let me make sure I understand the question here.
Let me make sure I understand the question.
Your question is: which one of these babies was born in a consensual relationship?
Which one was born over the incredibly traumatic, mind-numbing, horrible, horrific experience of having to carry to term the child of your rapist, of your daughter, of your daughter watching at home's rapist that he wants to force anybody have a pro-birth forced birth opinion will make you carry to term and be the mother of a rapist?
You can't tell the difference.
Be cast out of your family.
They're both human beings that deserve to be able to live.
And you skip over the care and the trauma of the mother.
Let's talk about that.
You do not care about the mother.
I do care about the mother.
I care about the mother so much.
Zero percent in care.
That I want to talk about this.
So let's talk about adoption.
How many families are...
How many families do you think are waiting for children right now to adopt in America?
Carol, you're aware that there are far more ballpark.
There are far more babies in foster homes and, I mean, in the foster program and in orphanages and take a guess.
There's not enough.
Guess.
There's not enough?
Guess.
Guess what?
How many families are waiting to adopt right now in America on waiting lists?
I don't know the answer.
Just guess a little bit.
A million.
Two million.
Okay.
And how many.
How many abortions are there every single year?
Your point is what?
Yes.
Your point is what?
Just take a guess.
Your point is what?
Let's say it's exactly two million.
I bet it's a good idea.
Two million.
There's twice as many families waiting to adopt and terminate children.
You're aware there are also children who are in the adoptive care system that cannot go.
Are you aware of that?
Yeah, why do you think they're in the adoptive care system in the foster care system?
Because a lot of people are forced through restrictive abortion laws that people don't red tape.
So we should make it easier to adopt.
Do you agree?
Sure.
Okay, so we agree.
So therefore, if we get rid of abortion, we have enough families waiting to adopt, and every child would be taken care of.
And yet again, we have solved the abortion issue, everybody.
And Ben agrees.
No, because enough families to adopt.
No.
All the abortions would go away, and everyone gets to be able to do that.
Because look how well Ben would have to go back to obsessing about sperm.
Look how well you, again, skipped right over the mother.
You refuse to talk about the mother or the experience of giving birth because you don't know what it's like.
Nor do I. Let's take you skipped right over it.
Let's go to the bathroom.
So your argument is: let's make everyone who's raped force them to have a baby, go through that trauma, and then the trauma of giving up the baby for adoption just so people can have a baby that don't currently have one.
How about also not traumatizing women and respecting the autonomy of women?
Why is it that you are in favor of limited government in every way, as small of government as possible, except in the uterus of women?
So if it's not yours, you're against government overreach, but not government interreach.
You like government reaching in a uterus and deciding for a woman what it does.
Hilariously, that's you because you want to put the abortionist in the uterus.
No, I want to force.
I want to respect women's choices to make the decision best for them and their lives.
What I want is to make it illegal for abortionists and the abortion industry to continue to massacre and create a genocide and Holocaust.
Killing all the dolphins.
The dolphin Holocaust must end.
You're right.
We have to stop.
That's Charlie Kirk's point, everybody.
See, he's obsessed with women's uteruses and he wants to kill as many dolphins as possible.
So, Ben, let me ask you a question.
He's frankly obsessed with women's bodies, telling them what they can and can't do, making them give birth, even if they're raped.
So, Ben, let me ask you a question.
He wants to kill them, and he wants to make sure that dolphins are that we stop the dolphin genocide.
Let me ask you a question: Is abortion ever wrong?
Is abortion ever wrong?
You need to be more specific.
I don't know what that means.
Is abortion ever wrong?
I don't know what you mean by that.
Is it ever wrong to conduct an abortion or facilitate an abortion?
I think, in my, again, personal opinion, if it is towards the end of a term and a child is viable, a potential child is viable on its own outside of the womb, and it's not for some serious abnormality that would make the child very likely to not survive long in life or to risk the life of the mother, I think that would be a pretty wrong thing to do.
That's my opinion.
Why shouldn't the laws reflect that then?
I'm okay personally with the laws reflecting that.
You what?
I'm okay personally.
I'm okay personally, but again, I'm not a woman, so I'm speaking kind of out of turn here.
But I personally don't love the idea of a late-term abortion.
But you're against abortion anyway.
That's correct.
Yeah, but I'm just, that's actually news.
I didn't realize that was your position.
That's my personal opinion.
But then, like, at what week would you draw that?
Because then.
Like I said, when a child is likely to be viable outside of the womb, the third trimester then.
For me personally, I'm personally okay with that.
But there are instances, like I said, when that needs to be done.
And did you know, since you love throwing stats at me, that less than 1% of cases is it a third trimester abortion.
And those cases are almost always when it is the life of the mother or serious abnormalities that the child would not survive.
So if it's less than 10%, which case I'm not against.
If it's less than 1%, then we should be able to abolish it.
And now the Texas law, which you have been a big critic of, is at six weeks.
Six weeks, which we've already stated the facts, at six weeks, the child's eyes, eyelids, nose, mouth, and tongue are formed.
That sounds like a human being, not a dolphin.
Oh, the shape of them.
They're still webbed.
They're still sitting there.
I don't know how boring your life has been.
But life is not this.
Sitting in jail, floating.
That's not life.
Life's out in the world.
So let me ask you a question.
Life's out in the world.
Over 500,000 people.
Maybe this is why you go home and you just chill at home like, ah.
Over 500,000 people are currently hooked up to a machine in comatose.
According to you, being a webbed person or being somewhat non-human is okay.
Should we just pull the plug of all of them?
No, because developed living human beings are different than ones by your own terms are not living.
Let me quote you yet again.
You said on your YouTube, quote, Planned Parenthood conducts 300,000 abortions a year.
Yes.
That is 300,000 murders.
And then the second part of the sentence, that is 300,000 lives that never had a chance to exist.
By your own words.
You know what I mean by that.
No, I don't.
By your own words, you said embryos and fetuses do not exist.
It's your words.
They never had a chance to exist.
That is a sloppy dishonest.
It's a perfect argument.
It's a low IQ argument.
You think to be able to fully exist like you and I have the phase of that.
No, that's not true, sir.
You know that's our like.
You know that's sloppy.
So let me ask you a question.
I'm speaking of the phase that you think is the same as a dolphin.
Let me ask you a question.
And you are saying that I can't tell if it's a dolphin or not, but I must protect it.
But then you also say it fetus does not exist, never has a chance to exist.
It has not lived yet.
You're 27, not 28.
You said it yourself.
Let me continue on.
So for your 28th birthday, I will take you to SeaWorld and we can look at the dolphins and be sad about it.
I'm happy to have another nine months onto my birthday, which is a really bizarre argument.
But amazing argument.
Let me know.
Maybe you're changing your birthday for it.
Let's say you were right.
Thank you.
So for a second, we just decided it.
I'm right.
For a second.
Do you ever doubt that 62 million abortions is something that we should be worried about?
Something that's wrong with that all the, let's just use the racial thing, which you tend to always try to incite.
All the black babies that were never born, all the Hispanic babies that were never born.
Does that ever bother you?
Does it ever bother you that you still, despite me making this point already, are trying to dictate for these communities of color what they should do with their families.
And then once you force them to have this baby, you don't help them at all.
Okay, let's talk.
We'll talk about both of them.
Number one, I will, with every ounce of my being, intervene to dictate that babies are allowed to live.
You seem indifferent to that.
And you can compare babies and dolphins.
That's fine.
That's okay.
You compared them.
You said they were 100% human life.
You dishonestly put up both pictures.
I proved a point perfectly.
I would expect the same from a B-rate comedy.
You did the same kind.
You're a B-rate commentator.
You did the same exact thing in your photo.
Let me continue by saying, which you couldn't tell me.
You did the same thing with your photos.
He couldn't tell the difference between a human being conceived in rape or in a consensual fetus.
That proves my point better, Charlie.
Let me ask you a question.
I couldn't tell the difference because exactly fetuses are not distinct special beings until they are born.
Let me ask you that.
That's why you can't tell the difference between rape fetishes and consensual fetuses or dolphin fetuses or human fetuses.
If it's not your DNA.
You prove my point twice.
If it's not your DNA, why should it be your choice?
Exactly.
It's not your DNA.
So why are you choosing for these women?
It's not the DNA of the baby, Ben.
No, it is half the DNA of the mother and half of the father.
Constitutional Rights and Privilege00:16:49
So should the father have a say?
I think the father should be able to consult with the mother if the mother should choose it.
Should the father override an abortion?
You just said, Charlie, of course not.
He should not be able to override it.
It's the mother's choice.
She's considering the baby.
It's half his DNA, so he should be consulted.
That would be nice.
You know, in most states, it's illegal.
It's not legal to do it.
It's not legal to consult a father, of course.
Of course, you don't have to consult it by law.
It's fine because it's the woman killing yourself.
But if it's not your DNA.
You just said, if it's not your DNA, you shouldn't have a say.
That's right.
So the mother and the father, it's not their DNA anymore.
So why do you have a say in babies of which you have none of the DNA?
Well, it's like saying murder laws and theft laws, rape laws, and arson laws.
Because those are to protect human beings.
Which begins in your opinion.
In the opinion of embryology.
You happen to be an evangelical.
You happen to be a Catholic, correct?
Not even close.
You're not a Catholic?
You have a card for that?
You're an evangelical Christian.
What are you?
Evangelical Christian.
Evangelical Christian.
Okay.
And you're a B-rate comic, right?
And you're a C-rate political hack.
How did your Netflix?
We can throw names all we like.
It was trending on Netflix for two years.
Have you ever been on Netflix?
You should go for it.
It's one of the top platforms out there in the world.
I heard they took it off.
Yeah, they did.
After two years, they took it off.
Great point.
You ever been on Netflix?
I wouldn't want to.
I also got a show dropping on Disney Plus students, so please check that out.
My goodness, they couldn't pay me to be on that awful platform.
Yeah, I would not have you on a family-friendly platform.
That's for sure.
With your obsession with women's uteruses, they probably strongly make sure that doesn't happen.
I want to see as many babies live as possible.
Your religious beliefs inform your opinions on abortion.
Yes.
But mine is not.
I haven't made one religious argument this entire time.
Sure, but all I'm saying is you keep saying that life begins at conception.
That's an idea you have informed by your religious beliefs then.
Judaism says life begins with the first breath.
No, it does not.
Yes, it does.
That is a misinterpretation.
Judaism.
Judaism gives preference to the woman, not the unborn fetus.
Do you want to talk about the Torah?
And that's my religion.
So what does it say in Jeremiah?
I knew you before what?
I have no idea.
You were in the womb.
What does it say in Leviticus about unborn feminine?
Oh, wow.
Somebody wrote that I knew you before you're in the womb?
Yes, somebody called Jeremiah, minor character in the Bible.
The Bible's beautiful, but it's allegories.
So if you're going to take the specific words and say it's some kind of scientific book, it's not a scientific book.
It's a good moral guide.
It's not the word of God, bad.
In your opinion.
But you can't enforce your religious opinion on the world.
That's why we've got to say that I've been making secular arguments.
Sure.
So I'm just asking, as someone who says you were offended by the Holocaust, where millions of Jews were killed, why are you seemingly indifferent with the millions of Americans that are being killed?
Because they're not Americans.
You have to be born on U.S. soil to be an American.
Again, you prove my point.
Thank you.
Human beings.
The definition of an American is being born on U.S. soil.
Born.
Born or naturalized.
Let me ask you.
So no Americans are killed every year.
Let me ask you.
Thank you.
Another point.
The Black Panthers.
The Black Panthers said, which I disagree with, with the Black Panthers on a lot, but they said that abortion is a black genocide on the community.
Good for them.
Are they wrong?
Yeah, they're of course wrong.
Have been arguing this whole time.
It is not a genocide.
Genocides are genocides, and genocides take place of humans, not of undeveloped humans still developing fetuses that will become human beings.
What do you think are dolphins?
What species is a fetus on the animal kingdom hierarchy?
It is Homo sapien or no?
It is a part of a woman human being that is growing.
What species is a woman?
A woman is a human being.
A fetus.
What species is it?
It will become a Homo sapien.
So it's not current.
When does that species change?
At birth.
How hard is this concept?
We can't birth.
So you're making an argument that all of a sudden the baby goes through metamorphosis of a species change?
That's a unique and very bizarre argument.
Oh, no, I never said species change.
I said it's becoming a full, living, breathing animal.
So what is it before?
So what species is a fetus?
You've got to organize it somewhere on the animal kingdom.
Where is it?
What is it?
Homo sapien.
Oh, it's parts.
It's a human.
Homo sapien parts.
You just admitted it to human beings.
And what species is sperm?
What species is neither human nor anything?
What species is the egg for?
It is an undeveloped part of a male or undeveloped part of a human being.
And a fetus is an undeveloped baby.
No, it's very much developed.
No, it's not.
It's developing the whole time until birth.
That's the whole process.
New DNA is formed.
New DNA is formed the whole time up until birth.
No, no, no.
The new DNA is formed right at that moment.
No.
Yes, it is.
The new DNA, the sperm and egg meat, that's called conception.
And the science of embryology says that is a human life.
Each egg that drops unique DNA in that egg and your unique DNA in the millions and millions of sperm that goes and fertilizes that egg.
And we said, what happens to an unfertilized egg?
The sperm dies, and what happens to a pregnancy that doesn't go to term?
It dies.
Your point is what?
That it's a human life.
No.
That it develops.
We didn't prove that point.
Uninterrupted from an abortionist intervention.
No, there's miscarriages all the time.
Of course, that doesn't make it not alive.
So when a miscarriage happens, is that it's a matter of life.
That's a life to be grieved.
Is a woman a murder?
Of course not.
That happens through many different sorts.
There could be chemical pregnancies, other people.
Honest question.
Do you have any friends who've ever had an abortion?
Yes.
Okay.
And I grieve for them.
You grieve for them.
Because they were taken advantage of by people like you and the abortion industry.
Right.
They were taken advantage of.
That's how they feel.
That's how I feel.
Many of them, by the way, if you want to talk about the mental health cost that women have after an abortion, I'm happy to talk about how most women regret having abortions, about how they have psychological damage, social damage, spiritual damage.
That is what they're doing.
That they wish they could take it back.
That is a BS talking point.
No, it's actually a scientific fact.
That a woman is a scientific fact.
It's terrible for the women.
For the woman.
No, no.
Unsafe abortion is terrible.
Abortions are very, very safe and are very healthy to do.
And in fact, for any woman watching this that is being forced to not consider an abortion as an option if they are not ready to have a child because maybe their husband or their partner or their parents are not allowing them to do so, please know you can get pills online from other countries even if you have to.
That can do a safe, painless, easy at-home abortion, and you will not have to deal with any problems health-wise, and you're going to be all good.
So know that option is out there for you.
I got to be honest.
Please keep it in the middle of the day.
The ease of which advocating murder scares you.
You keep saying murder, and you also think fetuses are dolphins, so you don't ever take in a point that you already lost.
So just to say, your main argument you keep on resorting back to is you have two pictures of a human being and a dolphin that looks similar, and you think as if that's some sort of...
Your own words is that embryos haven't had a chance to exist yet, that fetuses haven't existed yet.
They existed the way you and I have.
Yes.
Right.
So now you are word shopping something I said on a radio show and YouTube channel.
Alive.
Your own YouTube channel.
Your own YouTube channel.
Let me ask you a question here, which is, what is a human being?
A living, breathing, out-in-the-world entity.
Let me ask you a question.
What is a mother?
The thing you keep not wanting to talk about?
A mother is a woman who has a sperm and egg fertilized and human life has begun.
And does she have autonomy to make her own decisions?
Do you think she's a full human being?
Well, this is where you stepped in it.
You think if it's not her DNA, it's not her choice.
That's a moral argument.
It is her DNA.
No, no, no.
It's not new.
It's not her body.
And it's her body.
It's not her DNA.
It's new DNA has formed of a new being.
And as soon as that new being is created, she does not have, in my opinion, the legal...
Well, she currently has the legal authority in some cases.
Legal authority and constitutionally protected authority.
You like the Constitution, don't you?
You care about it.
Where in the Constitution does it protect abortion?
The 14th Amendment and the Fifth Amendment.
What does the 14th Amendment say?
The 14th Amendment.
Where does it say the word abortion?
It protects your liberty.
Where does it say the word abortion?
And there cannot be infringements in the due process clause to your liberty and to your right to privacy.
And the government should not go into your body.
Why are there no rules or laws that affect a man's body?
What if we said, here's how we're going to reduce abortion, Charlie, is every man, including you, Charlie Kirk, newly married, has to get a vasectomy that can be reversed when you're ready to have a baby.
Would you be okay with it?
No, because it doesn't involve a certain human life.
Let me ask you a question.
What do you mean?
Oh, no, no, it does because you're saying men are not responsible at all for unwanted pregnancy.
So you believe women are not responsible at all for unwanted pregnancies.
Hold on, I don't even know what you're saying.
You're not understanding where you're talking about this argument.
Say that again?
Are men responsible at all for unwanted pregnancy, or is it just a woman's fault?
Yeah, probably, yes.
Right.
So then shouldn't the laws also enforce something on them then if this is such an epidemic that you call it genocide?
No, because you have a new being that is created.
So we should allow women to decide.
So women are just empty vessels then.
So men should not be involved in making decisions for women's health care, right?
Correct.
So then you think Roe versus Wade is a mistake because it was seven men that made that decision.
So we should repeal that.
It doesn't make any sense because otherwise.
Oh, men shouldn't dare make decisions for women.
No.
You advocate for the repealing of Roe versus Wade.
Let it be on the record, everybody.
Seven men made a decision that was terrible.
Seven empathetic men that don't have decisions for women.
We shouldn't.
Seven men, everybody.
Except IBCL Roe versus Wade.
The Supreme Court, who we have empowered to make such decisions.
I thought we should trust women.
You just scoffed at laws a second ago, but you seem to be a man of law typically.
And so typically the law that protects abortion.
What was it passed by Congress?
Okay, once again, let me finish my point.
I'm in the statute.
Let me finish my point here.
You see, never...
Unlike you, those seven men on the Supreme Court were able to have empathy and realize they don't know what a woman goes through to give birth and how it affects every part of their life going forward.
And so they realized that the government, something you're typically in favor of, small, limited government, not infringing on people's liberties or lives, should not infringe on...
That's not what they decided.
They decided in the Constitution.
Also, I can just say 2A, then Second Amendment is incorrectly.
We can do any regulation on that.
You guys say that all the time.
So the clerk for Justice Blackman said that Roe versus Wade is intellectually suspect, the most intellectually suspect constitutional decision of the modern era.
The clerk for Justice Blackmun who wrote the opinion for Roe versus Wade, the 7-2 decision that allowed 62 million of the people.
It's a dissenting opinion.
No, Justice Blackman was the majority opinion.
The clerk for Justice Blackmun who said it was one of the most intellectually suspect constitutional decisions of the modern era.
When did Congress at one time said I was an asshole?
That doesn't make it the law.
I mean, what kind of thing is that?
No, no.
Hold on a second.
Do we make law through Congress or through a decision of the courts?
Do we make law through Congress or a decision of the courts?
Yes.
Congress makes law, and the courts decide whether to uphold it or not.
When did Congress ever make a law on abortion?
Congress never made a law also outlawing abortion.
No, no, but when saw it did they ever legalize it?
Both ways, Charlie.
When did they ever make it not legal?
Actually, a lot of states had abortion bans.
Not the federal government.
So what does the 10th Amendment say then?
What does the 10th Amendment say?
It says that anything not delegated to Congress will be left to the states and the people.
But this was decided.
Yeah, by a group of unelected seven men who you say shouldn't make decisions.
Oh, okay.
We have to trust women.
I never said that.
That overturned have their own independent abortion bans.
You're obviously twisting my words very strongly there because obviously the Congress can make decisions for the country.
If there was such a mandate, what's the law that allows abortion?
Not Supreme Court decision.
What's the law?
Charlie, the Supreme Court decides on court cases, and they decide whether it is constitutional or not.
And backed up by the Constitution that you and I both hold so dear.
Right, so they codified our law.
It's a decision.
That's correct.
And you can't scoff at Supreme Court decisions and then say that then the Texas law is not a law.
No, we're going to hopefully overturn Roe v. Wade through the Texas law.
The point is that it was never passed by Congress.
Great luck trying to force women to have babies they don't want, aren't ready for.
Let me ask a question.
Babies from rape and babies from abuse.
Great hill to die on.
Then make sure you don't rape aside women.
One percent of all.
Rape aside women.
I'm sorry you have to listen to this.
Rape aside.
Statistically, it is less than 10.
1%.
So that's millions.
That's millions of people.
Let me ask you a question.
How do these other women get pregnant then?
Huh?
Let me explain sex to you?
No, I'm asking.
I can explain sex to you.
I know you're newly married.
So they made decisions.
Men and women love each other.
They made a decision, and then they want to terminate and murder that child.
Who made a decision?
Because the one million people having abortions every single year.
So why all of a sudden should we?
No, they are accidents oftentimes.
They're not decisions.
With terminating human lives.
They're not decisions.
Because they had a consensual relationship.
God, I hope for you.
25%.
If you don't accidentally impregnate your wife, that would be really hypocritical.
25% of all abortions in this country are done out of economic convenience.
Do you think that's okay?
Economic convenience is such a stupid, backwards, low IQ phrase for you to use.
Economic convenience, what you actually mean is they cannot possibly afford the million dollars it will take to raise a child that you can afford because you were born into privilege and they weren't, but you're so privileged you also want to force them to have a baby and then vote against legislation.
What's the average social welfare benefits for somebody annually with a child?
What's the number of it?
What's the annual benefit?
I don't know.
How do you tell?
$55,000 a year.
What's that times 18?
Times 18 years?
I don't know, roughly half a million dollars?
Right around $700,000.
Almost just about what it costs to raise a child.
So there's plenty of social welfare benefits in place.
So don't give me this idea of economic.
Because that's assuming every dollar of that goes to that child.
That assumes every dollar of that goes to the bottom of the body.
Here's the essence of it.
You vote against increasing this funding.
You vote against paid maternity leave.
You push against paid maternity and paternity leave.
You push against helping increasing prenatal care.
You push against making sure that there is more support for helping raise these children.
Let me clarify that.
You only want to force people to have babies they don't want, and you don't actually care about it because you've proven time and time again here that you don't even know exactly what a baby is.
You said with your own words that it's not a life until it's born, never had a chance to exist.
You only want to do it to get more followers and to be able to keep your followers on a hook because the anti-choice movement never even used to be an issue conservatives cared about pre-Roe v. Wade.
It was about segregating schools.
That was the big issue that was the conservative movement hung their hat on.
You are all over the place.
I'm making great points all over the place.
You're damn right.
And so once the sentiment of the country shifted against that and they lost that hook on people's playing to their fear and emotions, they had to shift to another emotional issue that played on misogyny and racism without being overtly misogynist and racist.
So they instead said, let's control women's bodies and therefore help keep communities of color down, help keep women down, and help have men decide, like men like you, decide what's best for women, even though you can't be pregnant, never will be pregnant.
And if you ever, your wife, hopefully, I hope for you have the life you want, gets pregnant, you raise a family, you'll have the means to take care of them.
So it's very easy for you to sit on a high horse and say, you got to also have a baby.
Well, good for you.
That's real nice since they don't have the money to do so.
Do you actually believe this?
What part?
All these great points?
You haven't been able to disprove any one of them?
Well, actually, we've gone through plenty of it.
And just to recap, age privilege and size privilege, Ben believes just because you're older and bigger, you should be able to terminate human life.
He's been unable to pinpoint one human life.
And at birth, 62 million abortions.
Human beings are distinct and whole.
And the science of embryology shows that human beings begin life at conception.
The science of embryology.
No, it doesn't.
You have been unable to pinpoint human beings on the ladder of the animal kingdom ladder.
That's the building block of money.
900 black babies are killed every single day.
Ben is indifferent to that.
No, I want to be able to do that.
There are 30 sites waiting families for every one abortion that happens every year.
And there's children that are stuck in the adoptive system forever and can't get adopted.
70% of all abortions are minorities.
And it really goes down to this moral question.
And the moral question is whether or not we believe human beings are worthy of protection.
No, no.
And I believe that.
You all the time say you don't believe they are.
Believe they are worthy.
No, you vote all the time against protecting living human beings.
You only vote.
Let's talk about protect the unborn.
So this is a slanderous lie.
I want school choice because I care about all human beings.
I want more police because I care about all human beings.
I want strong borders because I care about human beings.
It is a lie and it is insulting to anyone who's pro-life to act as if we are only pro-baby.
Everything that we advocate at this organization and over here is about the betterment and the flourishing of humanity, protection of your rights, strong education, the ability to read, the ability to go to school, not have to live in gang-infested neighborhoods.
Murderers Among Friends00:09:28
You do not help.
That is a garbage.
Everything that I advocate is to advocate for the human beings.
No, you are like, from the moment of conception to the last gasp and bustle.
That is a lie.
This is a drive to decide what you think will help communities that you don't understand and aren't part of.
You think there should be more police.
So the ability to read is something that I'm saying.
Reading is great, but you constantly denigrate the Black Lives Matter movement and the opinions of the black community that tell you what you are telling them and dictating as their white savior what they should want is not in fact the reality they live.
You're telling them more police.
They say, we desperately need other ways.
We need to shift funding into social workers, into health care, and to help other community help.
And you show, instead you tweet about how one of the founders of Black Lives Matter bought a house.
Patrice Cullers has 400 and got rich while her followers still can't educate her.
She's not allowed to get rich.
You are, but she's not.
Well, Patrice Cullers goes on bashing capitalist enterprises, saying that she's a Marxist, gets rich while her followers continually have to send her kids to bad schools.
So I just want to say that.
I have one last question for you.
Why are you friends of murderers?
What on earth are you talking about?
You said you have friends who've had abortions and you believe abortion is murder.
Why are you friends with murderers?
I'm glad you asked that question.
Thank you.
Abortionists are the murderers.
Women that have abortions are victims.
You said it's a genocide.
They have been captured by the abortion industry.
They should be given empathy, respect, care, and compassion.
The abortionists should be locked up in prison.
And it's people who are in the middle of the day.
So women not only can't decide for their own bodies the termination and destruction of children.
The 62 million babies that you are owned by.
Not babies.
Pre-babies.
You don't care one for birdies.
You don't care one for babies.
You've said repeatedly that abortion is murder and genocide.
Correct.
So somebody who decides to have an abortion, then by your own definition, is a murderer, unless you not only think women shouldn't be able to, or maybe aren't intelligent enough or independent enough to decide what to do with their own bodies, but also they're so naive, they're always convinced against their will to have an abortion.
If not, then you're friends with murderers.
Abortionists are the ones doing the procedure.
You can hire a hitman, can't you?
They are lied to.
Hire a hitman.
Are you guilty of murder?
They're not received.
Many of them are not showing ultrasound.
Many of them are not showing ultrasounds.
They're not understood.
The action is not a problem.
And many of them are complex.
And many of them are.
If you hire a hitman, are you guilty of murder?
I will remain with this position that women are victims in the abortion industry.
Women are victims and can't decide for themselves.
They can't hire industry that propagandizes to them that try to reach out, that reach out to them in a very deceptive and terrible way.
Women can't be reached out to and then make intelligent decisions.
Let me ask you a question.
That's your opinion.
Women can't make intelligent decisions if they were reached out to and shown an ultrasound.
They can't make a decision on their own.
Can they still make decisions in panic?
And of course they can.
No, it's only panicked when they have weeks to decide.
Do I believe that women are making a mistake by getting an abortion?
No, you're saying they're murderers.
I'm not saying they're saying the abortionists are murderers.
No, but if you hire a hitman, you're guilty of murder.
Do I think that they allowed murder to occur?
Yes, I do.
They allowed murder to occur.
They hired a murderer, in your opinion.
Yes.
So you're friends with murderers.
Why?
Why don't you call 911 and never talk to them again?
I have compassion for murderers.
For murderers because they regret what they say.
I have compassion for murderers.
I have to do it without a hundred for how that they were lied to.
Many of them confide and they cry to me and they pray for recognition.
So, your point is that they're not going to be able to do that.
And they pray for forgiveness.
And you agree with me.
And they are broken and they are hurt.
And they wish with every ounce of their being that they could undo that decision.
And my criticism, you know that, obviously.
My criticism goes after the abortion industry.
The doctors that misled them.
The nurses that didn't show them the ultrasound.
You know they're not lying.
So what about when they do see the ultrasound?
Again, that entire industry.
What about when they do see the ultrasound?
I don't believe they were showing the entire picture.
If they really knew that it was a human life.
Again, I don't understand the point you're making here.
My position is.
The point is that you're putting these absolutes that are not accurate.
But you're putting absolutes that are not accurate.
I'm not really understanding.
Let me ask you a question about this.
Can you answer that point?
You're putting absolutes that are not accurate.
You're telling me never out of the 60 billion people.
No woman has decided knowing all the facts and seeing the ultrasounds.
Why is my stomach showing this whole time?
I know you showed me earlier to cover it.
But damn it.
So let me ask you a question.
Yeah.
Which is this.
I'm pregnant right now.
Which is.
Which is.
I might keep it, Charlie.
So human life.
Can you give a specific week and trimester that you think that's?
I already answered that seven times.
No, you haven't.
You keep on dodging it.
I specifically say that.
Somewhere holding for me when they're viable, but that's not my decision to make.
But shouldn't the laws reflect morality?
Bring this point home for me because you're so important that you're encouraging millions of people to not have the right to decide for their own body.
The one place you think government should be big and huge is deciding.
You mean enforcing the money?
So again, you just said it's murder.
So again, you just said it's murder.
Yes.
So you think never in the history of the 60 million abortions in this country women have decided on their own?
So those women are all murderers?
So do some women make those women are all murderers.
Are they the ones conducting that?
Are those women all murderers?
Of course they're not.
The abortionists are.
Boom!
I rest my case again.
The abortionists are the ones.
How many times can you rest the case?
A lot?
The abortionists are the ones that are doing that.
You just established an abortion.
When an abortionist is not a matter of money.
So you're talking around it because you don't want to say that.
You don't want to say your friends are murderers, but that's what you're saying.
That's what you're saying.
That's close to what I'm saying.
It's exactly what you're saying.
You just acknowledged that, of course, sometimes women have all the full knowledge and are aware of what they're doing.
And in those instances, it's murder.
You just said it, and then a second later, you're like, but of course they're not murderers.
Because you don't want to say that because you don't ever realize the actual effect on the mothers of what you are doing in saying that.
You only care about this talking to you.
Do you think most, you know that most women that have abortions regret it?
No, that's not true.
Yes, it is.
I know a lot of women that have had abortions and they don't regret it.
They don't critically empirically.
Neither is your statement.
Yes, it is.
No, it's not.
Most women who have had an abortion.
Most women who have abortions regret it.
You know that one in four women have had an abortion by age 45?
Do you know that?
That is a sad statistic.
Yeah, it's sad.
That one in four women, unfortunately, are preyed on by the abortion industry.
They're all preyed on.
62.
None of them.
A million babies were never able to live.
Let me close kind of this.
Wait, wait, I have one more question for you.
Are any choices?
Here's a big question for you.
What choices are wrong in society?
Would you get rid of murder laws?
No, I have a question for you.
Okay, so.
I'm going to answer that very quickly for you.
So I have a question for you real quick, okay?
Why do you think late-term abortion is so bad?
Well, I think late-term abortion is morally equivalent with abortion in the first trimester.
Oh, you don't think it's any difference?
Well, I do.
I think that it gets worse because the baby can feel pain and it becomes even more developed.
Oh, perfect.
So you prove my point of view.
I think it's more grotesque.
It becomes even more developed.
It becomes more brutal.
That's my point.
Human life.
Human life is a problem.
It becomes more brutal.
You would never be more angry at a mother that killed a living baby at three years old than you would if they killed a baby at one year old.
But with a fetus, you do.
So you're qualifying the amount of life.
Well, I said that it's morally the same.
You shouldn't.
It's more grotesque.
You said it's worse.
Then you know what's more grotesque.
You know what it's more grotesque?
When the baby starts crying and an abortionist goes in and snaps its neck.
Yes, it's more grotesque.
What?
Do you know what actually happens in an abortion?
Yes, I do.
What happens?
Tell me.
I know exactly what happens.
What happens?
There's several different methods.
Now, tell me how an abortion happens, Ben, since you're such an expert.
You dilate the cervix, and you go in there with a tube, and you suction out the tiny half an inch, large 0.025 of an ounce embryo, and it doesn't get a chance to become a human.
What does the baby do while that's happening?
The baby is fighting against it.
The baby is clinging to the wall of the mother.
It's the first two trimesters, what is not.
And then the baby does what?
In the third trimester, that might be true, but not in the first two trimesters.
Oh, sure, it does.
Go look at the videos at abortion.
And guess what percentage of abortions do the abortionists have to break the neck of the baby?
Charlie, you just at the same time.
You ever see a video?
A small percentage because that is the late, late abortion thing.
So wait, in less than 1%.
If you had to break a neck of a baby, so it is a baby, you agree?
No, I never said that.
If you have to break a neck, is it a baby?
No.
What is it?
Dolphins have necks.
Your favorite animal.
So you believe that it's okay?
No, I didn't say it's okay.
Abortions are sad.
Ben, I really don't think you understand how grotesque and graphic and intimate and quite honestly disgusting an abortion is.
How unnatural it is to go into the development of a human being, break the neck, insert oneself, and the baby is trying with everything it can to cling onto the wall of the mother and to extract that violence.
That's not what happens.
That is not what happens.
You've got to watch more videos of abortion.
I've watched so many videos.
That's really creepy.
You've watched so many videos.
Oh, so the mount you've watched the goldie locks up.
Yeah, after one murder, one was enough.
So many videos.
So let me ask you a question.
What axe murderers do.
Here's a question that I would love to see about how we can move forward as a country on this, okay?
That would be a good way to close.
Great.
I love it.
So how to move forward as a country is obviously it's very contentious and we see these things differently, right?
That's been evidently clear.
Yes, absolutely.
Poverty vs. Empathy for Women00:08:16
But my big question is when you are clearly someone who does not believe in government overreach and you want people to be successful on their own, deciding on their own what their lives are going to be.
I mean, I have a quote from you right here.
You think that people should be able to fend for themselves and make their own life and make their own decisions.
But for some reason, that's why you're against a lot of expanding welfare programs, expanding Medicaid, expanding prenatal care.
Yet, when it comes to a woman, half the population's own body, you don't agree with your own words.
You know the response before I say it.
You know why?
Because I believe that unborn child deserves constitutional protection and the right to flourish like you and I. Who are we as human beings, as fully developed people, to say that that being right now, six weeks in the room doesn't allow, does not have the same sort of shot at life that we have.
Because we're fully developed and they're human beings who are alive.
So you don't.
You just admitted that they are not fully alive.
You admitted it several times.
No, no, no.
They never had a chance to abortion.
Hold on a second.
No, no, no.
You're being dishonest.
No, I'm not.
I'm saying that they are not as old and they're not as large, but they are equally a human being.
They are a personhood.
So this question of women's government, I believe in a small and strong government.
Small in what we do, strong in the enforcement.
You need to women's vital friendship.
Let me be very clear.
No, you're actually the one that wants to go into the body and snap the neck of babies.
I want to make sure that you're not going to be able to do that.
You want to ruin the lives of millions of women.
Let me be very clear.
You want to ruin the lives of living women.
No, I want more children who don't care about them to be able to continue.
I care so much about women.
I want to prevent them from the horror of abortion.
I care so much about women that I want 31 million more women that never had the chance to live for the living person to live the way you are.
31 million women.
That's the question I wanted to get to.
31 million.
Let me ask you a question.
31 million women never had a chance to see their 10th birthday since Roe versus Wade.
Does that bother you?
No.
We just talked about that for an hour.
Okay, so that's fine.
I thought you said you were pro-woman.
Half of abortions statistically.
They're not women.
You went over this in great detail.
So they're just some amphibious being.
Why do you care more about the unborn than the born?
I care equally because they're born human beings.
I do.
You just said over and over, you just affirmed again that you don't care about helping the structural system that can help.
This argument is such a silly argument.
Because you don't have an answer for it.
Let me very clear.
You know why?
Because government dependence doesn't help.
That's why.
It hurts.
It keeps people down.
Privileged opinion.
School choice would help the black community, yet the teacher unions get in the way of it.
That's all they need to say.
Defunding the police raises crime and hurts minority opinions.
This is the argument that so many people make.
That's your opinion, Charlie.
Which is that somehow I am anti-life and only pro-baby.
Every position I hold is pro-life.
Every single position.
I believe in the dignity, the flourishing, the potential, and the prosperity of all human beings.
And every public policy position I hold.
Without any help.
That's not true.
I believe in a safety net, but not a hammock.
I believe in lifting people up, not crushing them down on dependence.
I believe we shouldn't throw rocks at the top at the building.
We should fix the elevator.
I believe in intergenerational stratification.
I believe in getting more people to read, not less.
I believe in matters, not steps.
I believe in the current public education system in Baltimore, where in five schools, they cannot find a black child that could read at fifth grade.
That's what I'm focused on fixing.
That school needs better teachers.
I agree.
That's why bad teachers should be fired and good teachers should be paid more, and the teacher union should be crushed.
This argument from the pro-abortion lobby that we're somehow only pro-birth and you're on your own is disgusting and it's ridiculous.
This is why you have a few things that are Medicaid, social welfare.
Those keep people down.
That does not lift them up.
It's a privileged opinion when you never had to deal with changing your social status.
Social status.
So let me just ask you a question.
But how do you know if you never had to do that?
It's so arrogant.
For people who never had to do that.
To know how easy it is to get to a different social status.
Let me ask you that.
You're making that up.
So just universal, is reading a good thing?
Being able to read?
Yeah, it's pretty easy.
Even though we're screens these days, it's not super necessary.
How about low crime areas?
Yeah, that's good.
And you don't want to help them.
I don't need to grow up in the hood to know those things are good.
You don't want to help those communities.
I want to help them help them so much.
I want to get them off government dependency and get them into economic social media.
So they should follow your prescription.
I want to get, it's not mine.
This is this.
It is.
So how do you stay out of poverty in America?
What are the three things you have to do to stay out of poverty?
You got to get out of poverty.
Graduate high school, get a job, any job, and get married before you have kids.
That's the Hoover, that's the Brookings Institution, which is a liberal institution.
You don't want to help people do those things.
Oh, let's go through it.
Okay, get married before you have kids.
I'm a huge advocate of that.
I want to fix the high schools in our country, and I want to be able to have jobs abundant in inner-city schools.
Everything I stand for is for the betterment of the individual.
Crime is one of the number one reasons why businesses will not move into low-income areas.
Every position I have is a pro-life position.
Going from protecting the unborn child in the womb all the way to making sure you have safe streets, schools where children can read, fathers in the home, making sure people stay loyally married to their spouse, being able to make sure communities are thriving.
A pro-life agenda is through the entire public policy portfolio of the conservative left-wing worldview.
It's very simple.
We want to abort you in the womb, keep you down, have forced eugenics, not be able to read and enter schools, close your business.
We want you to not read.
Be able to bang your violence.
We want you to not read.
It seems as if the Democrat Party and the left is perfectly okay with the fact that literacy rates have gone down in inner cities, that teacher unions are making more money than ever before.
They oppose charter schools and oppose private schools.
This idea that somehow I don't care about the dignity of individuals as pro-life people is disgusting.
It's reprehensible.
I want to help them through better schools, safer streets, more jobs, and fathers back in the middle of the world.
Not in the ways that they tell you they are objectively.
You know who does that?
But not in the ways they do.
What about Senator Tim Scott?
What about Thomas Sowell?
What about black leaders that want to talk about flourishing, not victimology?
What about black leaders that want to talk about rebuilding these communities?
We need all of that.
These things are objectively good.
You know, that if people get a job, they graduate high school, they can read, they could do math, and that they don't commit crimes.
You know, those things are objectively.
No, I know for a fact.
Regardless, black people.
Regardless of nothing.
Regardless of their black, I don't know if they're not.
Rather than Hispanic.
This idea because of the skin color that I have, that I can't say that some things are better than others.
It's ridiculous.
Not committing crimes, getting a job, graduating high school, getting married before you have kids are moral goods that everyone should advocate for, and that's what conservatives believe.
Not committing crimes and getting jobs from your position of white privilege is something that is woefully ignorant to say without a true understanding of that experience.
But I think it's great that you do have a lot of those positions that would help.
And I think it would be nice if you could up your empathy a little bit to help in some of these other ways.
But I have two last questions for you, if I could, okay?
One, here's a big one I have for you: is since I was trying to say the point and I got distracted because this is very intense.
But if we agree, we see this all very differently, right?
But currently, the law of the land is that a woman does have the right to choose.
At least federally, that is what the law interpretation by it was never passed by Congress.
Okay, point being: why don't you, if you truly care about people so much, and you claim, even though you won't talk about the woman, you claim to care about the woman, the mother, as well as the unborn child, then why don't you focus instead on the education of these people?
Why don't you focus instead on making sure they have the care they need to be able to bring more children into the world, which would make you happy and would reduce abortions and not do it through draconian laws that punish them and would make it illegal if they're raped?
Let me ask you a question.
Have an epic pregnancy or anything.
How much do you know about my views on actual children and development?
I don't.
I've studied as much as I can find, but I don't believe in about it.
I don't know if you're not paying people to have children.
Did you know that?
No, I didn't.
Well, you should have a note card.
But what's your answer to that question?
Why do you try to do it through laws and not through education?
Let's go to this.
And help.
I do believe in education and help.
I believe that for every child you get, you should get cash from the federal government.
Threats to Democracy00:04:22
Did you know that?
That's great.
How much cash do you want them to have?
$10,000, $12,000 a year.
I think we need to increase the birth rate in our country.
You know that?
That's great.
I do know you think that is.
Is that a pro-life position?
We have an overpopulation problem.
No, we don't.
Oh, my goodness.
We have an overpopulation problem?
We do.
We do.
But let me ask you this last thing, okay?
Here's who I don't understand.
Conservatives claim to be all about freedom.
And you claim that liberals are about this nanny state and about not being free.
There's some nuance in flexing those joints, but sure.
Okay.
So here's what I don't understand.
You think that when you're trying to protect people from a pandemic, you can't infringe on someone's freedom to ask them to wear a mask because it might not spit deadly virus into their face.
That's too much of an impingement on freedom for you.
But you're okay with rolling back reproductive freedom.
You're okay with rolling back voting access in this country.
You're okay with broadly undermining our democracy by backing an insurrection literally to overthrow the election of our nation that you supported.
I mean, Turning Points literally funded Trump's Jan 6 rally.
So Ben, I have a question.
That led to an insurrection attempt on our government and the death of many people, including police officers that you claim to love and care for.
How do you reconcile being anti-freedom on all of those things and claiming you're pro-freedom?
So Ben, I have a question.
Which one of us was an anti-democracy?
Ben, I have a question.
Which one of us was arrested at the Capitol before?
I was.
So you're an insurrectionist?
Oh, no.
I didn't break into the building and kill people.
Were you arrested?
Yeah, I went.
Where was I on January 6th?
You were doing a podcast in which you said, I'm getting 500 emails a minute of people saying we want civil war and then ginning that up.
You were in the middle of the day.
And also, not that day.
Not that day.
And you also sent busloads of people to the Capitol on Jan 6.
You sent people to the Capitol on Jan 6 for the insurrection.
You really should get better research.
Are you not responsible?
So I protected.
Hold on.
Our students never got near the Capitol.
None of them.
None of them.
No.
They were actually at the law.
They were right.
They were at the ellipse.
None of them walked to the Capitol.
You, as an insurrectionist, who were arrested at the Capitol.
Zero.
No, no, no.
Because you are a threat to democracy.
I peacefully protested and told the Capitol police I would be protesting.
They knew that respectful and you were civil disobedience.
I did not know they knew that it was happening.
So you do take blame for the insurrection that happened on Jan 6.
I did take no blame.
That's slanderous and wrong.
Why do you take no blame for it?
You sent buses of people there.
To the ellipse that got nowhere near the Capitol.
You're the insurrection.
But that day that you ginned up.
That day.
That day that you ginned up.
What's the final question you have here?
That day that you ginned up.
I ginned up nothing.
That day that you ginned up.
You're the only one that got arrested.
You said you were sending patriots to fight.
I said nothing like that.
Yes, you did.
You said you never sent patriots to fight.
Metaphorically failed.
And you said they want a civil war.
This is so typical.
Where you come in here, where you yourself have been arrested at the Capitol.
Peace.
And you tried to sell it.
I am sorry.
That's different.
You are a domestic terrorist.
Okay.
Failed presidential candidate.
No one's ever heard of.
You have the balls to come in here and try to call me that.
So you're not.
So you're not responsible for it?
Let me come back.
Just ask me.
That's my last question.
Not even a moment.
You're not responsible for what happened on the camera.
You've actually been arrested on the Capitol.
Let me finish and say this.
This right here is exactly why we're not going to come together as a nation.
No, no, no, no.
You dishonestly come in here with poorly researched talking points where I'm a thousand miles away in Phoenix, Arizona.
You can't fight a mob from a distance?
Let me be very clear.
You're the one that's actually been arrested before.
I have not.
North and they got nowhere near.
None of them.
And let me just finish by saying this.
You're done.
Let me finish by saying this.
Wait, this is exactly what I'm saying.
I promise here's my moment.
No one trusts half the country.
I promise you.
Because they dishonestly lie about this and they think they got one when they themselves are actually the domestic terrorists and the people that have attacked our democracy.
He's been arrested.
I haven't.
Thank you, Ben, so much.
I promise here's my last thing.
Thank you, guys.
All right.
I told you it was a circus, but if you want to email me your thoughts about it, freedom at charliekirk.com and get involved at TurningPointUSA, tpusa.com.
God bless you guys.
Speak to you soon.
For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to CharlieKirk.com.