A Foreign Policy Expert's Take on Israel-Palestine with Dr. Sebastian Gorka
Stepping up to the plate as Charlie takes a much-needed sabbatical, former Trump Administration official and friend of The Charlie Kirk Show, Dr. Sebastian Gorka joins Producer Andrew to unpack precisely what is going on in the Middle East as we speak. He offers insight into past events that fuel the current tensions as well as the role the Biden Administration has already played in making a centuries-old conflict much, much worse in less than 120 days. Support the show: http://www.charliekirk.com/supportSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Hey, everybody.
Welcome to the Charlie Kirk Show.
I had the incredible honor of having a one-on-one conversation with Dr. Sebastian Gorka.
If you are confused about the state of our foreign policy, you're not alone.
Everybody's confused.
We don't know how the conflict started, where it's going, and why the heck are the Democrats so angry at Israel?
Dr. Gorka has the clarity, the vision, the experience, and he gives it to all of you.
We also talk about the GOP.
What's going on with Liz Cheney?
What's going on with voter integrity?
You're not going to want to miss this chock full conversation with the one and only Spash Gorka.
Don't go anywhere.
Buckle up.
Here we go.
Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.
Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus.
I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.
Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.
I want to thank Charlie.
He's an incredible guy.
His spirit, his love of this country.
He's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created.
Turning point USA.
We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.
That's why we are here.
Hey, everybody, welcome to the Charlie Kirk Show.
This is Andrew Colvett, affectionately known around these parts as producer Andrew.
We force Charlie to take some time off because, you know, he just won't do it if you don't force him to.
The man is a machine.
He works 20 hours a day.
We're proud of him, but he's got to go.
Sometimes he's got to go.
So in his stead, here I am, but more importantly, we have the one and only Dr. Sebastian Gorka from American First Salem Zone joining us.
We're so honored to have you, Dr. Gorka.
Welcome to the Charlie Kirk Show.
Producer Andrew, greetings.
It's an honor to be with you.
Well, we couldn't be more excited to have you.
There's a lot that we need to make sense of in the world today.
And I know our audience is going to be very excited to hear from you specifically.
We touched on this yesterday.
I just want to jump right in here.
We had Michael Knowles.
We were talking about the Israel conflict that is all over the news.
Everything, I mean, I'm looking at my monitor.
Fox News is leading with it basically non-stop right now.
Newsmax the same.
You are an expert on international affairs, foreign affairs.
You've got a lot of background in that.
I'm excited to talk to you about it specifically because I think a lot of people are confused.
It's such an opaque origin story.
I mean, this is a story that goes back to Zionism in the 1800s and the early 1900s.
And, you know, there's this conflict over the land.
Who owns the land?
Where does it come from?
Where should we start?
How do people need to start thinking about this Israel conflict?
Why is it happening now?
Make some sense of it.
Make some sense of it.
Well, let's start with a tweet my friend Arsene Ostrovsky just posted.
And it's a picture of him with his little baby on his shoulder hiding in a bomb shelter in Israel.
And he simply says here, 3 a.m. in Tel Aviv, hashtag Israel under attack from Hamas, and I'm shielding my baby in the bomb shelter.
That's the reality.
Now we can delve into the minutiae of Sheikh Jarrah, this region of East Jerusalem where there's been violence in the past few days because of Ramadan and between the local Arab residents and the Jews who live there.
But that's really irrelevant.
You don't want to get lost in the minutiae.
That territory since 1967, including Gaza and West Bank, that was captured by Israel.
This is a nation that rebirthed itself after the Holocaust, after Shoah in 1948.
And they said, This is our ancestral homeland.
To be clear here, Islam, Islam started 600 years after Christianity.
Judaism is a little bit older than even Christianity.
So the idea that these are Palestinian territories or Arab territories or Muslim territories is utter propaganda.
It is fallacious.
This is the home of the Jewish and Israeli people.
After six million of them were murdered during World War II, they reestablished Israel.
We supported them.
This tiny little island of democracy, of representative government that is multi-ethnic, that has all types of individuals in the Knesset, all shades of skin color, all ethnicity, all socioeconomic background.
That is our closest friend in the Middle East.
And they are under constant, constant attack.
And let's be clear here.
Don't take my word for it.
Don't take Dr. G's word for it.
Go online.
Look at the footage just in my Twitter feed today, just the photographs of the rockets landing on Jewish schools in Jerusalem.
I just have to say a prayer that God bless the Iron Dome.
The footage of these rockets being intercepted by the Raphael Iron Dome system is absolutely incredible.
But look, it boils down to one question or one representation of what's going on.
We have one side that will destroy, destroy the Jews.
We have the other that wants peace.
It is simply that simple.
If the Arabs, if the Palestinians laid down their arms, there would be peace.
If Israel laid down their arms, there would be another Holocaust.
That's all your listeners need to know.
I completely agree.
But Dr. G, I want to talk about this, the muddying of the waters that's happening.
And, you know, Charlie's in his 20s.
I'm in my early 30s.
This is a debate that it felt like it crystallized, you know, in older generations, in past presidencies.
And to Joe Biden's small credit, I'll give him small credit.
He's trying to create a new sort of wave of the Democrat Party.
He wants to be the new progressive leader.
He wants to be FDR.
He's turning out to be more like Jimmy Carter.
But he is at least somewhat paying some lip service to Israel in this.
And now I've got critiques.
Gen Saki's basically chastising them.
I know all the details, but it's a far cry from what's happening with Rashida Tlaib, who was spotted in DC, by the way, with a sign.
It's somebody who's with her.
It says, Israel is the same as Nazi Germany.
And this was at an anti-Israel protest in D.C.
And Rashida Tlaib was the guest speaker.
So at least there's a little bit of stability at the very top.
Again, I have my critiques.
We can critique it.
But as you get younger and younger and younger, this debate is getting muddied even on the right.
You know, I saw a tweet.
It was a question from a friend of ours of the show, Eliza Schaefer from The Blaze, asking a very honest question.
He said, I always hear everybody say that Israel is our greatest ally, but why?
You know, he's like, we spend a lot of money helping them with their defense.
What do we get in return?
So what I'm seeing is that even amongst younger conservatives, this debate is getting more confusing for them.
I mean, how do we make sense of that and how do we reverse it?
Well, first things first, I have to push back on your depiction of Biden.
Biden has no stance.
Biden is a shell.
He's a cipher.
He's a senile old man who can't even read the teleprompter.
The idea that he represents some kind of reasonable balance against the anti-Semitic members of the squad like Rashida Talib or AOC, who even supported proudly and to this day supports the anti-Semitic BDS movement.
If you're perceiving that, Andrew, I think that's just a temporary.
He may be trying to posit that, but he'll genuflect.
He'll bow down to the extremists given any pressure.
So with regards to.
I agree with you on that.
I do have dramatic differences of opinion with the way he's handling this.
Don't get me wrong.
What I'm saying is that even his own party, the left wing, is mad at him right now because he's not going full fledge on the on in defense of the ethnic cleansing against the Palestinians.
But on the record, on the record, his Secretary of State, Anthony Blinken, just gave $234 million to the Palestinian Authority, which is two weeks ago.
And what happens?
Rockets are launched yesterday.
So that's his Secretary of State.
Well, and these rockets are coming from Iran, right?
And so we can take a lot further and their posture towards Iran is disastrous.
Right.
We can talk about Iran and the JCPOA in another segment.
But look, you're absolutely right.
This is incredibly, you use the phrase muddied.
It's muddied on purpose, you know, on the left and right.
And people who ring into my show, who challenge me on my love for Israel, I don't want to have anything to do with them.
You know, the young Pat Buchananides who think that Israel is the problem.
Israel's only a problem if you believe in representative government and you believe in freedom and liberty.
If you want to side with terrorists, I mean, I tweeted it out today, very simply.
I stand with Israel and I want all the terrorists to be crushed under hellfire.
It's that simple, okay?
And the idea that somehow Israel is the problem.
Israel is a tiny, tiny country of a couple of million people surrounded by a sea of dozens of Arab and Muslim states.
And Israel's the problem?
Come on, guys.
Israel, we have a culture, not just amongst the Arab fundamentalists, but in the Palestinian territories of Gaza, of the West Bank.
I've been there.
I've been to Israel at least a dozen times teaching a culture of death.
Israelis don't teach a culture of death.
Look, by now, you've all heard me talk about my pillow and how Mike has done it again by introducing his My Slippers.
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Now, Dr. Gorka, they've already lobbed over a thousand rockets at Israel.
These are rockets likely that come from Iran.
We're talking about unfreezing billions of dollars of money so that Iran can continue to fund terrorism throughout the Middle East.
But this is, I think, you know, you and I are having a conversation about the changing view of Israel and why it's so important that the conservatives stand by Israel in the region because Israel is a culture of life.
Hamas and the terrorists, designated terrorists are culture of death.
But I don't know that that message is getting through.
And what can we do to educate people?
What do they need to know?
What's the linchpin that they need to know about how this is?
This is not ethnic cleansing, right, Dr. Gorko?
It's not, right?
This is not apartheid.
This is not, you know, Israel is not the Nazis.
Yeah, and no, Israel are not the Nazis.
The Nazis tried to exterminate all the Jews on the planet.
So it's just, what bizarro world are we living in where we're seeing Rashida Tlaib, who, by the way, said that as an American congresswoman, she's proud of her Palestinian identity.
You kind of think, what?
Hang on a second.
There's a problem here.
You know, it's Ilhan Omar, who another member of the squad says that Israel is all about the Benjamins and that it's an evil nation that has hypnotized the West.
Well, let's just stop for a second, guys.
You don't have to read the book I wrote about this issue, you know, Defeating Jihad, which walks you through everything you need to know about these groups.
But what is the culture?
What are the values of the people who are fighting the Israelis?
So let's say, let's just ignore what Israel is for a second.
Maybe you think they're the bad guys.
What is the culture of those who are now lobbying those Katusha rockets onto Israeli schools?
It's a culture of Muslim fundamentalism.
It is worship of the jihadi suicide bomber.
The Palestinian authority pays the families of Palestinian suicide bombers.
It is a culture of extremism, where if you are an infidel, meaning a Christian or a Jew or an apostate Muslim, you must be killed.
And it is fundamentally a culture of theocratic dictatorship.
We Christians believe in religion, but we understand when Jesus said, render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's.
There is the state and there is religion.
There is no distinction in the Muslim world between the two.
The Quran, I've read it.
You need to read it.
There is the idea that you can separate politics from religion is un-Islamic to true believers.
So if you don't like Israel, guess what?
You are, by dint of that decision, siding with Muslim theocratic fundamentalists who worship suicide bombers.
I don't know.
I don't think that's very American.
Well, Dr. Gorga, I think you are absolutely right.
Of course, we see eye to eye on this, but you forgot an important one.
You forgot Rashida Talib saying that she gets warm feelings when she thinks about 9-11.
You know, it's like, no, or was it the Holocaust?
Either or.
No, no, it was the Holocaust.
No, no.
And then it was Ilkhan Omer saying that in 9-11, some people did something.
Not 3,000 Americans killed in 102 minutes.
No, no, no.
Some people did something.
That, I mean, this is the broader.
If you're not interested in foreign policy, and very few Americans are, that's okay.
The broader, the more important issue is the Democrat Party has been taken over by the radicals.
This is the reality.
A few generations ago, JFK, JFK, okay, Democrat president, would not be allowed into the Democrat Party today.
Scoob Jackson would not be.
If you are pro-life, if you're strong on national security, if you don't hate America, you can't be a Democrat today.
And that's where it all begins.
You have to hate America to be a Democrat.
I strongly believe that if there was a pro-American socialist, if Liz Warren actually got behind very pro-American ideas, she would take over the country.
If we had a pro-American sort of left of center, probably far left, let's be honest, populist leader in this country, perhaps like Elizabeth Warren, perhaps somebody else, that message I believe would resonate like none other right now.
Just given where the country is at, I fear that that would be a devastating blow.
So I'm actually sort of relieved that that person hasn't emerged.
What's your thought?
So I dearly hope, I presume it isn't the case, but I dearly hope there are no Democrat strategists listening to Charlie's show right now.
Just yeah, media matter.
Hey, are you there?
Hey, Zach, get typing because you might like this bit.
So if it is not an overstatement to say that in 2016, it wasn't true in the last election because that was just the machine Democrats getting in bed with the radicals.
But when it was really Bernie ascending before Hillary stole it from him in 2016, what we witnessed in America, and you can see this elsewhere in other parts of the world, left and right don't really make any sense anymore.
The old taxonomy of politics is starting to break down.
And what we have are competing populisms.
You have the national populism that nations are good.
That's like Brexit.
That's like Bibi Netanyahu, like Modi in India, where nations should be strong, strong nations, that our democracies are good for the world.
And then you have the populism of the socialists, that we need more globalism, more multilateralism.
We have to look at the world through material lenses, through class lenses like Bernie.
But the weakness that has is that the socialism of the Bernie Sanders and even the Warrens of today, and especially the AOCs and the squad, is anti-American.
Anything that is a problem in the world, whether it's climate, whether it's war, whatever it is, is of course because America is guilty.
If there were a candidate who came along who said, hey, I love America, but I want more equality and equity, that would be really dangerous.
Yeah, that would be really dangerous for conservatives.
So I believe my old boss, Donald Trump, is going to run in 2024.
I think given the last 117 days in America, I mean, there's a little gas station outside my house.
I have never, in 12 years, I've never seen a line outside the gas station.
This morning, there was a line.
So if what has happened in the last 117 days since Sleepy Creepy took over persists, the Democrats are going to get shellacked.
They may try and steal the election again, but they will be shellacked in the House and the Senate.
And I think Donald Trump could potentially wall straight back into the White House.
So God willing, they're not listening to this because we don't need a Democrat who likes America to be the head of the party.
Well, you know, this is what's interesting is that, you know, and I don't actually think we're at risk of this.
I want to give you an example of why I think this.
Bernie Sanders in 2005 was, he backed an amendment to dismantle the diversity visa lottery and basically eliminate 50,000 green cards.
Supported stricter immigration limits.
The other thing is you go far enough back, you get Caesar Chavez was going around California beating up illegal immigrants.
I mean, these guys were thugs.
People don't like to talk about that anymore.
The left, you know, he's the patron saint of Hispanic Americans.
It's not, that's a completely false narrative, as they've done with so much of their ahistorical propaganda.
But here's the thing: now the party has completely bullied somebody like Bernie Sanders into accepting this open borders nonsense.
I want to read you a quote from Milton Friedman here.
He says, it's obvious you can't have free immigration and a welfare state, he warned.
So this is the fundamental problem with their entire ideology, their plank right now, that they're saying, hey, open borders.
We've got nearly 200,000 abductions at the southern border right now.
We've got a plummeting American population.
I think our replacement is about 2.1 per mother, 2.1 children per female.
We're, I think, around 1.6.
So we're not replacing ourselves anymore.
So their answer is going to be, let's import the next generation of Americans because diversity is our strength, Dr. Gorka.
And, you know, I find this actually kind of an interesting conversation with somebody like yourself because you are an immigrant to America.
You have made our country stronger.
So it's not that that can't be true, just not like this.
Let's not forget that the speech Hillary Clinton gave to a group of bankers before she became the presidential nominee for the Democrat Party, which was leaked.
In it, she stated her dream, quote, is to have a borderless hemisphere.
That means no border from Canada all the way to the bottom of Latin America.
If you have a borderless hemisphere, guess what happens?
America ceases to exist.
But this isn't some kind of rhetorical flourish behind closed doors to a bunch of people who are paying you half a million dollars to give a 20-minute speech.
The current secretary of DHS has said this.
I mean, just last week, Alejandro Mayorkas, who's been a radical illegal immigrant proponent before he became a cabinet member in the Biden administration, said that borders should no longer divide us.
Well, hang on a second.
Then what is the point of a border?
What's the point of America?
What's the point of our constitution?
There is no America left.
And, you know, the question is: is there a rational Democrat out there?
And right now, I don't see it.
Let's go back.
I like to hearken back to, you know, I'm a legal immigrant, but let's talk to Americans of your father's generation, your grandfather's generation.
JFK, for all his foibles, his affairs, and everything else, was a hardcore patriot.
Not only did he serve this nation in uniform, man alive, he went up with Khrushchev toe to toe and he was prepared to blockade Cuba to stop the Soviets putting nuclear missiles 100 miles off the coast of America.
And could you imagine a Democrat going toe-to-toe with anyone in terms of not acquiescing to the Kremlin?
I mean, look, can we just one thing in the news?
This oil shortage that I'm witnessing outside my house at the gas station, that's 17 states in America.
There's no way a private Russian hacking enterprise did that.
They did that with the acquiescence of the Kremlin, Vladimir Putin.
Why?
Because guess what?
Donald Trump isn't president.
That's how dangerous things have become.
Palestinians are shelling Israelis.
Russia has circled Ukraine.
17 states are now having gasoline shortages.
And Andrew, we are 117 days into this administration.
Right.
Yeah, it took us, it took us 100 days to go from energy independence to gas shortages on the eastern seaboard and the highest gas price since 2008 when you adjust for inflation.
And it's only going up.
It's only going up.
And, you know, this is what really irks me, Dr. Gorka, is that the Biden administration has the gall to say when asked about this, you know, this hacking of our grid here, basically our infrastructure, that it's, quote, a private sector decision.
You know, talking about how they're, you know, they're handling the gas infrastructure situation.
They, I have never, and I don't think this is getting covered because the, you know, the mainstream news media is completely absent here.
I mean, somehow Biden is still getting 60%, you know, and that's, I think, honestly, I think it's more than 60% favorable news coverage.
Meanwhile, they are gaslighting the American public.
They are rewriting history.
We say, oh, it's a crisis at the southern border.
It's not a crisis challenge.
And we're dealing with it.
It's under control.
The border's closed.
Well, the border's wide open and everybody knows it.
All the bad guys know the truth.
And the American left is silent in that.
So I have a new TV show on Newsmax.
It's called the Gorka Reality Check.
It's every Sunday night.
You guys should check it out.
Much needed.
And I decided: well, if the mainstream, I'm not a journalist, guys.
I'm former deputy to the president who has a radio show.
But if the mainstream media isn't going to cover this non-crisis, well, guess what?
I'm going to spend a thousand bucks on a camera and some plane tickets.
And I took my radio show producer and myself, and we went to the border with a camera.
And we got out of the sheriff's truck, his patrol car, within 30 feet of getting out of the truck.
We saw more evidence of human trafficking than I filmed it.
It was on the show last week.
Dozens and dozens of carpet shoes, over shoes that they put on their shoes to mask their tracks through the desert, jugs, marijuana-carrying equipment, camouflage gear.
This was in 30 feet of the truck, but there's no crisis.
And we have an administration who said we inherited a broken immigration system.
Andrew, they're right.
It was broken because it stopped illegal immigrants.
Now it now fixed them.
Yes, now it's fixed.
6,000 illegal immigrants a day.
That's what the Democrats want.
I love that.
So in their own mind, they're not lying.
They just haven't told you that they changed the goal, the aim.
They moved the goalpost.
That's incredible.
I mean, I love that take.
Federal law enforcement at the U.S.-Mexico border stopped 178,622 people trying to enter the country illegally.
Now, what scares me most about it, and I fear it's the least talked about thing, even on the right, we don't talk about this enough, is the gotaways.
We are stretching these border agents so thin, they're catching record numbers of illegals coming to the country.
They can't possibly keep up with everybody that's coming.
They're not allowed to.
So watch the footage.
We did an interview with Sheriff Lamb of Pinal County.
We did an interview with a local rancher who's scared for his life and his family's life.
This is what they told us.
So this is Pinal County, 60 miles from the border, massive county in Arizona.
He's got 200 deputies.
Only 25 are on duty at any one time for the whole county.
When they pull over a truck, literally, they've got Ford explorers with 24 illegals in them.
24.
When they pull them over, if nobody has a criminal record, if the guy who's ferrying 24 illegals across the border, if he doesn't have a criminal record, they have to let them go.
Because the feds, DHS, Majorcas, has told CBP, has told ICE, we're not picking, unless they arrest a mass murderer, we're not going to pick him up.
So what happens?
The sheriff who has to protect that county has to let them go, Andrew.
They've been advocating for defund ICE and abolish ICE, and they've essentially done it de facto.
And that's what's terrifying, and Americans don't know yet.
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Reports, you know, mind you, take this with a grain of salt.
This is from CNN, but they're saying that all but Representative Ken Buck of Colorado left while Liz Cheney from the Republican side.
Are you happy this is happening?
Is it once and for all?
Ding dong the witch's jet.
They're dead.
Where are we at?
All right.
I'll give you the good and the bad news.
So the good news is that, you know, as I said today on Twitter, MAGA one rhinos zero.
This should have happened a long time ago.
She was the conference chair.
Now, the conference chair is one job to corral the GOP together on the Hill and to make sure they're all singing off the same sheet of music.
It's not to attack the former president or to attack supporters of the president who are also members of the House.
So this woman had a political death wish of some sort.
But she said today, and I'm quoting, I just got this off Twitter.
She said the following after she was kicked out of her position as the third highest Republican in the House.
I will do everything I can to ensure that the former president never again gets anywhere near the Oval Office.
I mean, she sounds like AOC.
And don't forget, this is the woman who was endorsed in the last week by Nancy Pelosi, the Washington Post, and OJ Simpson.
So this is the perfect exemplar of the Rhino class.
The good news is it's gone.
Bad news is it should have happened right after she voted against President Trump in the impeachment.
But here's the broader issue.
So right after the election, I met with the very top of the GOP, and I said to them the following thing.
If you don't want to be swept into the ash heap of history, in the next few months, you have to show publicly to the 74 million Americans who voted for Donald Trump, the most any president has ever received in American history, that you are serious on two issues.
Number one, big tech censorship.
And number two, voter integrity and election integrity.
I'm sorry, Andrew.
I mean, this is great news.
You know, Liz Cheney, sod off.
Go to hell.
But where's the GOP on these issues?
November was last year.
It was six months ago.
Where is the GOP on election integrity?
And where are they on big tech?
That's the big issue.
And all of, you know, listen, we get thousands of emails about this at the Charlie Kirk show.
And if you have questions, everybody, remember, freedom at charliekirk.com.
Send in your questions.
I completely agree.
Everybody in the base is worried about election integrity.
If we do not fix election integrity, I completely agree with you.
We're going to have Georgia Senate runoff 2.0.
I completely agree.
They're still going to try and game the system.
The left is still going to try and gin up votes with drop boxes and mail-in balloting.
This is the new era.
This is the new normal that they're going to approach this with.
So I completely agree with you.
Hey, everybody.
Thank you for listening in.
I hope you enjoyed that conversation with Dr. Sebastian Gorka.
He's a true patriot and very insightful in many different ways.
And he's given, listen, we all have to feel sorry for him.
He is in the belly of the beast located right there in DC.
So sad for him that he has to live there, but good for all of us for some of the insights that he can bring because of that.
Guys, if you want to support the show and what we're doing here in Charlie's absence, we would be honored.
CharlieKirk.com/slash support.
When you do that, you give us the courage to speak our mind freely and boldly without fear of retribution or boycotts or whatever.
So please consider doing that at charliekirk.com slash support.
Thank you so much for joining us.
We'll see you tomorrow.
We've got Alex Marlow from Breitbart filling in in the chair.
We're excited to have him.
You're going to want to check that out.
We'll talk to you soon.
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