Vaccines, Hydroxychloroquine, and Lockdown Madness Explained by America's Frontline Doctors
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Hey everybody, today on the Charlie Kirk Show, a super special and exclusive conversation with Dr. Simone Gold and Dr. Urso, who are here in person at the Turning Point USA Student Action Summit.
We talk about the vaccine, hydroxychloroquine, and so much more.
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The doctors with the answers are here.
Buckle up.
Here we go.
Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.
Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus.
I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.
Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.
I want to thank Charlie.
He's an incredible guy.
His spirit, his love of this country, he's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point USA.
We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.
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Truth is so important to me.
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We wanted to start this afternoon session with two very special guests.
You might recognize both of them.
As you all know, we are in the midst of battling the Chinese coronavirus.
And as I said yesterday, it's no mystery to anyone here.
And the idea of believing in liberty is also having responsibility.
And so everyone here knows that you come and you take a risk and you know exactly what those risks are.
Dr. Simone Gold and Dr. Urso, the last couple months, especially in June or July, came out so boldly and they were part of America's frontline doctors.
Do you remember that over the summer?
And they're wearing their America's Frontline Doctor gear and they spoke out against lockdowns and they just wanted to really, in my opinion, courageously and factually balance the conversation against what was happening.
And so, Dr. Gold, I want to start with you.
You really set social media on fire when you came out and your group came out.
You're the organizer of America's Frontline Doctors.
Introduce yourself and also tell us why all of a sudden you were fired from your job.
First of all, I'm so happy that you're doing TPUSA.
It's such an important event.
I just want to, right?
Right?
And I was so worried.
I was so worried that this, you know, it would be an online event.
And thank God that it's not.
You know, it's so difficult.
I'm so sorry everybody had to be outside earlier and thank God you're inside and we're going to switch.
But, you know, the fact that you're doing this event at all is amazing.
You have to push back in your lives on rules that people are putting out there and do what you can to push back.
And I know you've taken a lot of heat for it.
We, as scientists, we as doctors know that these prohibitions by public health bureaucrats are unnecessary and unhelpful.
We know this because we've had nine, ten months of this situation already.
Areas that have not locked down, as you heard from Christy Noam yesterday, Governor Noam, South Dakota is fine, but it's not the only example.
Sweden also did not lock down.
Areas that don't have masks or social distance, some of the poorest places on the planet in Africa that don't have any social distancing at all, have death rates about 1%, 1% of what we have in America.
So you standing up and saying no is a proper course.
I just want to give you props for that.
Thank you.
And thank you to all the students that came from across the country who also stood boldly for that.
And look, look, we made the decision to actually practice what we preach.
We believe in liberty and freedom.
We love this country.
And we could have done this entirely digitally.
And I'll tell you what, our lives would have been a lot easier the last couple weeks, and our staff would have been spared of a lot of sleepless nights.
And I hope you guys all know the Turning Point USA staff that are wearing those staff badges, they have not slept in the last couple days, especially last night dealing with all the curveballs.
But we did it for a reason because we know that a lot of you are going to make friendships for a lifetime.
And we human beings are built for contact.
You can watch it on the live stream and everyone watching on the live stream, hello.
But I think all of you here are having a much better experience than just watching in a living room.
Would you say?
And I'm just wondering, you know, how the kids would feel about, you know, maybe staying, you know, exceeding what the public health bureaucrats are saying, how many people could come in.
What do you all think about that?
Again, I would, as I said earlier, I would love to let them in.
We're in county property.
I said this earlier.
It's no different than being at the local aquatic center or library.
We are at the mercy of the county.
We're thankful they're allowing us to do the event at all, but they're in complete control of this.
This is not a private venue.
This is a government building, okay?
And so you guys know me.
If I did, I would have people everywhere if I could, okay?
So we're trying to do the best we possibly can, but it's county health officials and county board.
And again, I'm trying to nuance my remarks because the lights could turn out suddenly and we'd have no events, right?
And so we have to be both factually critical and also thankful we're able to do an event at all.
However, I think it's nonsense that we can't have more people in.
Okay, so Dr. Urso, these lockdowns the last couple months have had real health consequences.
Can you talk about the human cost of lockdowns?
Because the framing of the debate has been: if you care about lockdowns, you care about people.
If you don't want lockdowns, you don't care about people.
Can you talk about that?
Yes, thank you guys.
I'm so happy to be here.
It's so exciting because your energy helps all of us.
We love this.
So I'm going to address this by just saying this: mass distancing and lockdowns were a bad idea from the beginning.
From the beginning, it was alive from the beginning.
Okay?
It was never a good idea.
And here's why, okay?
Here's why.
The first estimates were from Neil Ferguson, who basically said that 7 million people would be dead by now, I think, worldwide.
The numbers were horrible, but the guy has made a history out of overestimating pandemics.
He's never been right.
And those were the things that we used to drive public policy here in the U.S.
So again, mass distancing, lockdowns, wait for a vaccine was a terrible policy from the beginning.
As you look at Sweden, they've done a wonderful job.
So it doesn't make any more sense now than it did back then.
That was not a good model to begin with.
It was alive from the beginning.
So it doesn't make any more sense to do it now.
Why is that?
Because we have early treatment that actually works quite well.
And when I say that, I mean there's four parts: there's inflammation, infection, blood clots, and breathing problems.
We can treat all of those things as an outpatient.
There's nothing to stop us from giving something for breathing problems.
We use the same medicines we use for asthma.
If we have somebody who has inflammation, have you ever heard of anybody being hospitalized for inflammation?
Absolutely not.
So you've got to look at this in parts.
The disease was manageable right from the beginning.
So that's one of the things why this never made sense.
It still doesn't make sense.
And we need to stop giving those orders to our public and let people decide for themselves how they want to go about their lives because disease has very little, especially on you guys, very little chance of hurting you.
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Somebody said something to me that I think is probably true.
I think this is the biggest gathering on the on the planet right now.
So that's kind of cool.
So all right, so Dr. Gold, let's start with.
Over the summer, you were one of the leading voices talking about hydroxychloroquine.
Can you talk about why you talked about that?
You know, you spoke about that.
I can say non-scientifically from personal experience, every person that I've recommended that to has had a favorable kind of, you know, treatment with that.
Can you talk about that from a medical and doctor perspective?
Yeah, I'll do this as quickly as I can.
So I'm a board-certified emergency physician.
I've been practicing in ER for more than 20 years.
And when COVID hit, there were patients in front of me that needed a treatment that I knew worked.
We knew it worked because since February, we had seen studies from across the world showing it worked.
In February, in fact, China made giving hydroxychloroquine, and there they use chloroquine part of their national treatment.
In March, India did the same thing.
There's been studies all over the world.
At this moment in time, there's more than 195 studies showing that hydroxychloroquine works.
I myself have prescribed it for many patients, and it works.
It always works if you give it early or preventively.
Sometimes you still get sick, but it's very, very mild.
It even works late, although not quite as well.
So I'm seeing the patients in front of me, and I'm being told by the governor of the state and by my own medical directors that I couldn't use this drug.
Nothing like this had ever happened in medicine, where another doctor said to a doctor, you can't give this ordinary medication.
By the way, this medication has been FDA approved for 65 years.
It derives from quinine, which George Washington gave his troops quinine found in tree barks.
And it's been given billions of times across the planet.
Every country uses it.
Countries that use chloroquine very widely, countries that have malaria endemically, Africa is a good example, have COVID death rates that are 1% of Western nations where we can't get our hands on hydroxychloroquine.
So I was seeing the lies and the disinformations.
I think some of what I'm saying is news to a lot of people.
But it absolutely works.
It absolutely saved lives.
It's not a question.
There have been Senate hearings on the subject.
Lots of doctors have testified to this fact.
There was no chance that we were not, as ethical doctors who took the Hippocratic oath, going to use this medicine.
So what's very bewildering is it's a certainty.
I know you only spoke anecdotally, but I'm telling you as an absolute fact is that it's effective.
So at the same time, they're telling you that there's a 65-year-old medicine that you shouldn't take because it's not safe, even though we've given it to more than a billion people on the planet over 65 years.
By the way, you should take this other thing that's three months old with brand new technology that hasn't had animal studies published, right?
It makes no sense, and you never need, you cannot substitute anybody else's thinking for your own thinking.
Does that make sense to you?
And so just to reiterate, hydroxychloroquine, have you seen it help people that were struggling in the fight?
There's no question that hydroxychloroquine saves lives.
No question.
And that is something that we're not allowed to talk about.
And just...
May I just jump in?
So I'm sorry, you know I'm passionate about the subject.
So there are suits going on in the Netherlands called a crime.
There's a guy who filed a lawsuit, a doctor, against calling it a crime against humanity that hydroxychloroquine has been limited.
And there was doctors that went before the Senate three weeks ago calling this an evil perpetrated upon the world.
And it's cheap.
It's widespread.
It's been around for a long period of time.
And so, Dr. Urso, can you talk about how doctors have been silenced in the midst of all of this?
Because this has been one of the most troubling trends is how people in your profession that spoke out against lockdowns, that spoke out against any one of the Fauci orders.
Do we like Fauci or not?
I don't know if we like Fauci.
I think we do.
Is all of a sudden it was a complete and total silencing.
Can you talk about how in the medical profession people were losing their jobs like Dr. Gold and others?
Have we ever seen anything like this?
No, and I want to go back to Fauci if you don't mind, because one of the things that he's done is he's stopped early treatment, period.
Doesn't matter what it is.
And we treat early no matter what.
So if somebody has this disease, just like any other disease, we want to get on top of it quickly.
So to tell doctors early on, people were so fearful to treat this disease.
People were losing their license.
I was sanctioned by my board.
As you know, Dr. Gold lost her job.
Many of us who spoke out early, it was a very lonely road.
We were basically shoveling against the tide.
It was very difficult.
People were telling us not to do it.
And it didn't make any sense because, as I said before, we always treat, we can't cure HIV, right?
But we can mitigate the damage.
We can improve disease tolerance.
We can work on prevention.
There's many factors that go into treating patients, not just one.
Hydroxychloroquine was foundational because, as I will tell you right now, it works against every respiratory RNA virus to prevent any RNA virus, even the flu.
It works very well, actually, against all of them.
So we need a multi-drug therapy makes a lot of sense because we have respiratory distress.
We have other things that we have to treat besides just the pathogen itself.
So it's been really difficult to sit there and tell patients who are sitting in your office crying, crying, they can't breathe, to go home.
That's all I have to say about that.
Does it make sense?
So Dr. Gold, can you talk about this as well?
You lost your job.
Why did you lose your job?
It seems like there was a blacklisting that started in the medical community.
Yeah, so I wrote a short little book called I Do Not Consent, My Fight Against Medical Cancel Culture.
So cancel culture.
Cancel culture.
I just want to say that I wrote it because people were curious what happened to me, but I really wrote it exactly for the people in this audience and people outside who I'll talk with afterwards, because I give you tools how to recognize propaganda in real time.
People say to me, well, you know, you're a doctor.
You can know.
By the way, that's not true.
Most of the doctors also have drunk the Kool-Aid.
It's not about age and it's not about education.
It's about a structured way of thinking that teaches you how to recognize propaganda in real time.
So that book, My Fight Against Cancel Culture, I Do Not Consent.
We'll explain it.
I was fired specifically because I was prescribing hydroxychloroquine and zinc for patients who need it.
By the way, every time I did that, I personally called the patient.
And as an ER doctor, that's a little unusual.
But I personally called all of them got better so quickly, which is exactly what I've seen over and over and over again.
It's what the studies show.
It's a crime against humanity.
So you lost your job because you started to speak out.
And you were treating patients successfully.
Yeah, I was one of those healthcare workers that was being cheered on until I was fired.
And so, Dr. Urso, can you also talk about, let's talk about the thing that will definitely get us in trouble, the vaccine.
And I'm completely, I'm not going to take the vaccine.
I'm not going to tell what other people to do because I'm going to tell other people to make their own decisions.
And if you think that's the best decision for you, then absolutely go do that.
That's not for me to impart that.
I'm just going to say what I'm going to do.
Similar to if you don't feel comfortable going to an event, don't go to an event.
But can you just give a medical perspective?
Are you in support of this?
Are you against this?
Do you have questions about it?
Help us unpack this.
So everything we do involves risk and reward.
Okay, so in this case, we've got to look at the data set.
And we know this disease affects different populations in different ways.
Under 20, it's one in 33,000.
Infection fatality rate, under 50,000, 1 in 5,000.
Under 70, 1 in 200, over 70, 1 in 19.
So first thing we've got to do is assess the risk.
And what I would say is it's personal choice, right?
So we shouldn't be mandated to have vaccines.
Now, what about the data on this vaccine?
All right.
This is really important.
You guys nearly need to hear this, okay?
So you know there's thousands of patients that have had the vaccine, correct?
Like 44,000 for Pfizer.
22 had the vaccine, 22 didn't.
All right.
There's a really important process where sometimes when you have a vaccine, you actually rev up your immune system and you start making bad antibodies.
And so what happens is when you get the virus itself, instead of helping you, you're more likely to suffer very bad consequences because you had the vaccine.
This is a known thing.
This is why we do not have any type of vaccine for cold viruses because it's called pathogenic priming or antibody-dependent enhancement, has a good name.
But it basically means that the antibodies you make actually make you more likely to suffer when you actually get the virus.
So here's why I say I'll be very cautious as we move forward.
I don't like even calling it vaccine.
It needs to be called experimental vaccine.
Okay?
Experimental.
So what we have is, okay, somebody, I want somebody to give me a number.
How many people have had the vaccine for Pfizer and then had the virus?
How many people?
Because that's that critical group.
Does anybody want to venture an answer?
Good.
That's 11,000.
He said 11,000.
The answer is nine.
Nine.
No, nine, nine.
Nine people have had the vaccine and then had the virus.
What's the most important group when we study as we move forward?
The people who've had the vaccine, because this is where we failed in SARS, MERS, and every other cold virus.
The reason we failed, it's not the vaccine.
It's the response to the vaccine making bad antibodies, and we don't know until we get the virus.
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If I could just jump in there.
So what Dr. Erso is saying is that if we give millions of people the vaccine, we don't yet know what the effect is going to be when they encounter the COVID-19 virus.
In the past, when they've given coronavirus vaccines to animals, when the animals did fine after the vaccine, but when they got exposed to the virus in the wild, many of them, I don't know if it was most or many or all.
I think it was all of them.
They were cats or ferrets, died.
It's called pathogenic priming.
This must be answered.
The reason we're bringing all this science information to you, and by the way, this thing, pathogenic priming, is also known as antibody-dependent enhancement.
Even though you've never heard of it, it's a thing.
You can find it on Wikipedia.
It's a thing, okay?
So coronaviruses are very difficult to make vaccines for this reason.
So we feel it's very irresponsible to be releasing this to millions and millions of people until that question has been answered.
It is still in its experimental stage.
It's being authorized to use as an experimental treatment.
If you want to sign yourself up to be part of a medical experiment or your parent or your grandparent, that's their choice.
I would say as a physician honoring my Hippocratic oath and speaking on behalf of all of America's frontline doctors who came to a position on this, we think the vaccine is utterly prohibited if you're under age 20.
Let me just finish.
We think it's prohibited under age 20 because the risks are unknown and the risk of death is so low.
The survival rate in your under-20 age group is 99.997%.
How can you take an unknown risk of this pathogenic priming?
And I haven't even gotten into the question of the fertility question.
There's a question if the vaccine can affect the growth of the placenta.
These questions must be answered.
We feel it's absolutely prohibited under age 20.
Between 20 and 49, your risk of surviving COVID, if you get it, is 99.98.
For that reason, we also think it's prohibited.
These are people still in their childbearing years.
We don't know, again, the pathogenic priming or the effect on the placenta.
Over age 50 to 69, your risk of your chances of surviving COVID is 99.5.
We feel in that group it should be discouraged, the vaccine, because there are other safer treatments that have been out for decades, but it should be your choice at that point.
Over age 69, the risk of the odds of surviving COVID is almost 95%.
We also feel that early treatment is better, but again, that would be up to personal preference, personal choice, because certainly there is a close to a 5% chance of death with COVID in that age group.
And if you decide vaccine is better for you than early treatment, that should be your choice.
But under no circumstances would I let my children, I'm a mom, get this vaccine.
And by the way, may I say, I want to say very clearly, because I've been misunderstood, I'm a person who's had influenza vaccines every year.
As an ER physician, it's required.
I've had hepatitis shots, fully vaccinated.
My children have been vaccinated.
All right.
This is different.
This is an experimental vaccine with unknown effects, including potential effects on fertility.
So, Dr. Gold, I think one of the challenges is a lot of people in this room are going to be forced to get the vaccine.
Is anyone here going to a school where they're going to force you to do that?
A couple hints.
And that's one option.
Is there any legal recourse?
Or are you able to speak to that at all?
Yeah, thank you actually so much for asking that question.
So after being on this journey of trying to bring truth to the American people for several months, I've come to the sad decision that our government can't really help us, and it is going to be up to the people to make a difference.
Now, I've given you a way.
It's true.
We've given you a way to make a difference.
So we've set up a site called stopmedicaldiscrimination.org.
The reason it has that name is there's going to be a lot of discrimination against people that go against the public health narrative, right?
That choose to say, I don't want to be vaccinated.
We want to stop that kind of discrimination.
Discrimination is going to come in the form of universities requiring it, employers requiring it.
And the first one I think that's going to come is airlines requiring it.
I believe if airlines get together and do this the way they've done with masks, it's going to shut down American freedom and human freedom, I think, forever.
It's critical.
You must, must go to stopmedical discrimination.org or SMDpetition.org.
We need at least a million signatures.
We're going to go to the airlines with those signatures and tell them their life is going to be difficult, costly, expensive, when they're going to have a fight on their hands, when they see millions of Americans are not going to comply.
This is what you can do.
People ask young kids especially, what can I do?
What can I do?
I'm telling you, every one of you has some social network.
Some of you have 10 and some of you might have 3,000.
You must get stopmedicaldiscrimination.org signatures.
We will take it on behalf of you and push back on the airlines.
And when we push back on the airlines, we will be able to push back successfully in other areas.
Dr. Urso, in closing, can you just talk about what this year has really taught you about the state of the medical profession in America?
Because you've been in for years before this.
So I've done drug development, been involved in a drug that actually made it through the FDA.
And all I can say is what I see is the politics and the finances have polluted our NIH, our FDA, and our CDC.
And what we're seeing is that that's going over into the academic institutions.
The hospitals have basically employed most of the physicians in the country, and it's made a huge difference on how people will speak out for their patients.
They're afraid of losing their jobs, and I think that's made a huge difference on why it's a few that are up here rather than many.
But to go to this long story, the CDC, they have multiple patents that they actually receive money on.
The FDA gets 45% of their money from big pharma.
The NIH, same thing, multiple patents.
So, what happened is the fox is watching the hen house, and we've got to find a way to get past that.
So, Dr. Gold, in closing, what has this year really taught you about the medical profession and what can everyone do?
You mentioned the petition, and you mentioned the real risks for people, as you said, 65 and older, right?
And we're very upfront, and everyone knows those risks, but for people our age, should schools be open?
Should activities be resumed?
And should we tolerate basically the cancellation of entire generation?
So, over 69, your chances of surviving COVID-19 are about 95%.
Schools should never have been closed.
It was the greatest mistake of this whole endeavor.
When I got the first notice, my alma mater, we got a notice in the email that it was being closed.
I knew that this was a big lie because it made no scientific sense to close down a place where young people were because we always knew from the very beginning, from China, right, from December, January, we knew that this didn't really affect kids.
We've only found out more strongly that that's the case.
It's a crime.
You know, nothing in life is risk-free.
I thought Tucker Carlson's talk last night was incredible.
I hope people really like took it in.
There's nothing that's risk-free.
I happen to think college is worthless at this point, almost always.
And I'm saying that as a person, I'm saying that as a person who has two doctorate degrees, all right?
So, it's not as though I devalue education, but for most people, when you're 18 years old, you're smart enough, you're hardworking enough, you can go out and you can make a future.
And you don't believe it because you've been told that that's not the way.
So, if you want, I've heard you say this, if you want to pursue like an engineering degree or something like a doctor, of course, you need more education.
But short of that, I think it's poison, and it pains me to say that.
One comment that I want Dr. Gold to touch on: there's a strategy they're going to use to try to get you to take this vaccine.
They're going to tell you that if you take the vaccine, that you're going to help your grandmother.
You want to talk about that?
Thank you so much.
There's a feeling, you know, early on they're saying, you know, wear your mask to protect you, and then they changed it.
They flipped the public relations aspect of it, wear a mask to protect the other person.
First of all, that's socialism, all right?
They're getting you adjusted to socialism.
I want you to know that there's really no end in sight after the vaccine, all right?
You all, in the most positive sense, you're like, well, all right, I'll just take the vaccine because, you know, it's whatever.
I'll just do it.
You think your life will get back to normal.
It's very clear to me as an adult, your life is not going to get back to normal after the vaccine, all right?
First of all, the surgeon general just came out this week and admitted it, right on Good Morning America, said that the vaccine doesn't stop transmission.
Those are his words, not mine.
In other words, it's more like a drug to treat the symptoms.
It's not actually stopping the transmission, meaning you need to wear the masks, meaning you need to do social distancing.
And you have to say to yourself at age 18, why am I listening to these people?
So just know what's going on and make the best decision for yourself.
America's frontline doctors has a lot of scientific information if you want about lockdowns and masks and vaccines, if you want to educate yourself.
Charlie, can I make one final comment about that?
So what they're going to tell you is, my mask protects you, your mask protects me.
My vaccine protects you, your vaccine protects me.
My food nourishes you and your food nourishes me.
As you see, there's no logic to any of this.
There's no science behind my mask protects you, my vaccine protects you, my food doesn't nourish you.
It doesn't make sense, okay?
None of that is true.
A lot of wisdom.
Everybody, let's give it up for these courageous doctors.
Thanks so much for listening, everybody.
Please email us your questions, freedom at charliekirk.com.
And if you want to support us, go to charliekirk.com slash support.