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Sept. 26, 2020 - The Charlie Kirk Show
44:40
Amy Coney Barrett and the Fight to End Abortion with Lila Rose

As news broke that President Trump will nominate Amy Coney Barrett to fill the Supreme Court seat vacated by the late Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Charlie is joined by Live Action founder Lila Rose, to argue the case for why Roe vs Wade should...

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Life Begins at Fertilization 00:14:11
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Amy Coney Barrett.
Happy Saturday, everybody.
You ready to fight a culture war?
President Trump has signaled that he will select Amy Coney Barrett this weekend to fill the now vacated seat from Ruth Bader Ginsburg.
Amy Coney Barrett was in contention against Barbara Lagoa from Florida, both of which are great picks, and Amy Coney Barrett has now been selected.
Amy Coney Barrett, she's, of course, an American lawyer, jurist, and an academic.
She now serves as a circuit court judge on the U.S. Court of Appeals in the Seventh Circuit.
She was a law kirk for Antonin Scalia, the great Scalia.
And let me just say, I could not be more enthused, convicted, or motivated to go make sure that Amy Coney Barrett finds a place on the United States Supreme Court.
She was confirmed in 2017 by the United States Senate on October 31st.
She was nominated by President Trump on May 8th, 2017.
So that's a very important point that she's been confirmed in the last couple years by the United States Senate.
She's been vetted and people voted for her.
She was actually born in New Orleans, Louisiana.
She studied English literature at Rhodes College, graduating magnum cum laude in 1994.
She then studied law at Notre Dame Law School, and then she served as the executive editor of Notre Dame Law Review.
She is a devout Catholic.
She is a person of faith.
She has seven children with two of them adopted.
But most importantly, I have really done a deep dive in her rulings as a circuit court judge.
In Doe versus Purdue University, Seventh Circuit in 2019, Judge Amy Coney Barrett ruled correctly that Purdue University violated a student's Title IX rights, saying that this student had adequately alleged that the university deprived him of his occupational liberty without due process, in violation of the 14th Amendment.
In immigration cases, Cook County versus Wolf, Barrett wrote a blistering 40-page dissent from the majority's decision, saying that President Trump was fully within his constitutional rights to be able to make changes to our immigration system through the Immigration and Nationality Act.
On the Second Amendment, Judge Amy Coney Barrett believed that we should not have more restrictions on Second Amendment rights so that certain individuals could have a more difficult time possessing firearms.
On the Fourth Amendment, Rainsberger versus Benner, in the panel, in an opinion by Barrett, she affirmed the district court's ruling denying the defendant's motion for summary judgment and qualified immunity in the case 42 U.S. Section Code 1983.
This was an amazing ruling, and quite honestly, I cannot find one ruling that Amy Coney Barrett had as judge that I disagree with.
She is a constitutionalist through and through.
Her judicial philosophy is one of an originalist.
She believes in how the law was written.
She did learn under Justice Antonin Scalia.
She has spoken and written publicly in support of Justice Antonin Scalia.
She's also pro-life.
Amy Coney Barrett pointed to Planned Parent v. Casey as specific evidence that Roe v. Wade has not yet achieved a status of being settled law.
A different way to word this is that Amy Coney Barrett believes that Roe versus Wade can be overturned.
Amy Coney Barrett has been critical of Chief Justice Roberts' opinion in a 5-4 decision that said that Obamacare was constitutional.
She criticized the Obama administration for providing employees of religious institutions the option of obtaining birth control without a religious exemption.
Put very simply, if you love our country, if you love the Constitution, we now have an opportunity to fight for it in a way that will have intergenerational impact.
It's time for the churches.
It's time for the neighborhoods.
It's time for the activists.
It's time for the patriots to rise up to confirm Amy Coney Barrett.
She loves her country.
She loves liberty.
She rules correctly.
And President Trump has made a brilliant pick.
And really, when all of it goes aside, this is all about abortion.
It's all about pro-life versus pro-abortion.
Pro-life versus 60 million lives that have been lost since Roe versus Wade.
And there is no better guest to help break down this new selection of Amy Coney Barrett than Lila Rose from Live Action.
Now, I did this conversation with Lila Rose when it looked like it was going to be Amy Coney Barrett, but it was not yet confirmed.
And so you'll hear me kind of mention it in a hypothetical sense.
But it was agreed upon that abortion and Roe versus Wade is the critical issue.
People of faith, people that love liberty, it's time to rise up.
Make your voice be heard.
Fill that seat.
Here's my conversation with the great Lila Rose.
So we might fight for life, defend life, and defend Amy Coney Barrett because they are going to come after her in a nastier, more vicious way than anything we have ever seen.
Buckle up, everybody.
Here we go.
Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.
Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus.
I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.
Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.
I want to thank Charlie.
He's an incredible guy.
His spirit, his love of this country.
He's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created.
Turning point USA.
We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.
That's why we are here.
Hey, everybody.
Welcome to this episode of the Charlie Kirk Show.
We are thrilled to be joined again by my friend Lila Rose from Live Action, who is the most articulate and quite honestly one of the most important pro-life voices in the entire country.
I support her organization when I can, live action.
It's such an important effort to be behind.
Lila, welcome back to the Charlie Kirk Show.
Thanks, Charlie.
That's so kind.
You're one of our favorite supporters.
Well, thank you.
Yeah, and I'm definitely outspoken.
So the reason I wanted to have you on is I believe that the Supreme Court seat that will now, God willing, soon be filled.
Yeah, it's about states' rights and it's about free speech, but what it's really about is abortion.
If we just say why the left gets so animated about this, they want to be able to continue to have a million abortions a year.
Ken Starr said it best on television the other day.
He said, really, the thing that animates both sides is the issue of life.
And so I think it's really important that now we know what this fight is really going to be about with Ruth Bader Ginsburg's seat being vacated and hopefully filled with a pro-life constitutional justice.
We're going to have probably the most important conversation around life in our country's history since Roe versus Wade.
So Lila, let's just start with this.
What are you doing to gear up for this Supreme Court seat fight and the issue around abortion?
And then I want to dive into just kind of play devil's advocate with some of the top kind of issues around the idea, the issue of abortion.
Sure.
Well, first off, you're right, Charlie.
This is historic.
I mean, if we were to, if President Trump succeeds in nominating and confirming a woman that is ultimately pro-life and being pro-life is being pro-Constitution, because the Constitution enshrines equal protection under the law for all people.
And a human being, their life begins in the womb.
So that the Constitution is very pro-life.
It's designed to protect basic human rights, the first of which is life.
So if we have a woman on the Supreme Court who's confirmed, the days of Roe v. Wade are very short-numbered.
It's really just a question, I believe, of when the next case makes it to the Supreme Court, where they can decide not just to overrule Roe v. Wade, which was the Supreme Court case that legalized abortion on demand through all nine months.
60 million children have been killed since then, since 1973, this historically, horrifically unjust case.
But not only may they overturn Roe v. Wade, but they would further explain for what we know to be true, which is that human life begins in the womb.
And because of that, a child in the womb is entitled to the exact same right under the Constitution that you or that I are under the 14th Amendment, which declares equal treatment under the law for all people.
So I'm very excited about this moment in time.
I think that now more than ever, you said, what do we do about this?
We educate.
People need to understand what's at stake here for those that are pro-life.
And those that don't understand the issue of abortion very deeply, maybe they think they're pro-choice.
Just getting basic facts, Charlie, about life in the womb, fetal prenatal development, learning about what the abortion procedure does, the violent act that it commits.
I mean, I was just talking to a girl online, live action, we reach millions of people online with the truth about abortion, education about human life.
And this is just an example.
See, she's saying that abortion is not really killing a human life because the baby isn't, you know, it's not a baby, it's a fetus and it's not alive yet.
So we're saying, well, why, if it's not alive, then why do you need to abort it?
And she's like, well, it's just, it's, you know, it's not alive, just like a chicken before an egg is not alive.
I'm like, well, if the egg is unfertilized, then yeah, it would not be actually a chicken, a chick yet.
A lot of eggs you have in your refrigerator are unfertilized.
So just the ignorance around this, I mean, it's very clear that it's alive.
The fetus, the embryo is alive and it's human and therefore should be entitled to those same protections as you are or that I am.
So I think that this is a historic moment and education is going to really win the day because the media, as you know, and so many other talking heads in politics, the whole Democratic Party is rapidly pro-abortion and pushing misinformation.
I love that framing of pro-abortion, not pro-choice.
I think that they try to mislead people in how they view the issue of abortion because it is pro-abortion.
And they don't like it when you describe it that way, but that's exactly what it is.
And as you've said, well over 60 million abortions since Roe versus Wade, is that right?
60 million abortions.
Yes.
An extraordinary figure.
And so I really think it comes down to when we talk about the issue of abortion, it comes down to a lot of things, but one of the most important starting points is when does human life begin?
That's really kind of what we are talking about here.
So Pete Budigej said that life begins when the baby exits the womb.
When does human life begin, Lila?
And build it out for us scientifically, morally, and constitutionally.
Yes, of course.
So first of all, you can open any human biology textbook and it will tell you when human life begins.
If you're in any biology classroom, they will tell you when human life begins.
This is not a matter of opinion or debate.
It is a scientific fact.
Human life begins at the moment of fertilization.
It's when a human, a human egg is fertilized by a human sperm, the mother's egg by the father's sperm, and a unique individual single-cell embryo comes into being.
This is a unique individual human organism.
That means it has the power to grow.
And if it isn't interrupted and killed and is given the proper nourishment, it will grow into an infant, will grow into a toddler, will grow into an adult, an adolescent one day, and an adult.
That is how human life begins at the moment of fertilization.
So we know that as a fact.
And we know that this distinct individual human life just needs time and nourishment to grow.
Constitutionally speaking, Charlie, the 14th Amendment was an incredibly powerful clarification that the Constitution that we have in our Constitution insists that all human beings, all people have equal protection under the law and that the state cannot deprive you of your life or your property without due process.
I mean, that is something that makes sure that we are all treated equally.
And this is in our Declaration of Independence, right?
It says our founders pen that we are endowed by our creator with certain inalienable rights, and that among these are the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
Note that they said that we're endowed by these by our creator.
So all created human beings, all human beings are endowed with these inalienable rights, meaning they're universal.
We all have them and life comes first.
So constitutionally speaking, scientifically speaking, and then morally speaking, I mean, we cannot live in peace and harmony as a society if we're killing the vulnerable.
It really comes down to that.
Children are our future.
They're the most vulnerable.
They're the most voiceless.
If we as adults think because we're stronger, we can kill them if they're inconvenient to us, then there's injustice and immorality at the core of even how we function with each other.
And so that is for having, even for the sake of a flourishing future, we need to eradicate abortion altogether.
I love that framing because that's really what it comes down to.
It's, I've been on this earth longer, therefore, I should have the ability.
I don't like that word, but I should have the authority because I'm older to crush a pre-born life.
And what I love about your website and what you guys do is the framing.
You're finally framing life in a compassionate way, but also in a truthful way, where you do not use the language of the left, where, and I hate to frame it in left versus right, but it's just there are no more pro-life people on the left.
Hearing the Heartbeat 00:02:32
It's just, it's almost impossible to find those people, nearly impossible.
Where you say, no, it's a pre-born life.
And so, can you walk through just some of the milestones of weeks when a baby can start to hear, when a baby starts to form the specific form of hands, or there's all these milestones.
You know the calendar better than I do.
Can you walk through that?
Because it's horrifying when people actually hear that six weeks, eight weeks, 10 weeks, recognizing of mother voice, heartbeat.
What are some of those to give kind of an idea of how quickly the process moves along?
So before a woman even knows she's pregnant, her baby's heart is already beating.
The heart begins beating.
And this is for virtually almost all women before they even know they're pregnant.
They've missed a period.
They're starting to wonder at just 21 and a half days after fertilization, a baby's heart is already beating.
Within six to seven weeks, neurons are already firing.
So brain waves are already starting.
Their electrical processes that are forming their early central nervous system is already forming.
By the end of the first trimester, Charlie, all their organs are present.
They have a jawbone, teeth, a face, eyes, ears.
They have hands, legs, arms.
They have everything.
And by that, and that's when most abortions happen.
So most abortions are happening.
All abortions are happening on a baby with a beating heart, with firing neurons, with brain waves that are beginning to be detected.
And almost all abortions are happening on children that have arms, legs, fingers, toes, fingernails forming, jawbones beginning to harden.
It is incredible how swiftly human development takes place.
And it is heartbreaking and horrific to consider that the vast majority of abortions are ending children.
All of them are ending children with beating hearts.
And almost all of them are ending children that already have discernible, a discernible body.
You can see the human body already present.
That is the reality.
When people learn this, by the way, we see it all the time when we are doing Education Online.
Shocked because most people have bought the lie.
of the abortion industry and the media saying that it's just a clump of cells, right?
They want to pretend that the life doesn't exist in the womb and they think it's just not real.
There's just cells.
It's just blood clots.
And so they're really believing a lie in order to be okay with the killing.
But when education happens, it is transformative for people and many of them become pro-life.
Justice Ginsburg said, quote, frankly, I had thought at the time Roe was decided there was concern about population growth and particularly growth in populations that we don't want too much of, end quote.
The Lie About Rape 00:14:54
So we're not really sure what she was talking about there because the activist media never followed up with her based on- So we know we know what she's talking about.
Then tell us.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, I mean, you're right.
The media does not follow up on an incredibly big bombshell that she drops right there in the interview, which is what Planned Parenthood has been saying for decades since they were founded, which is that abortion and first of all, birth control before they legalized abortion was to be used as a population control tool for those that were seen as undesirables or unfits.
And this is the language, the unfit language or the undesirable population language is the language of Margaret Sanger.
She was the founder of Planned Parenthood.
So Ruth Bader Ginsburg in this interview is actually parroting the talking points, the ideology of Planned Parenthood, which is today, as you know, the biggest abortion chain.
They are lockstep with the Democratic Party.
They're all over our communities.
And the Supreme Court justice is saying, well, we have abortion so that we can get rid of the, I mean, ultimately get rid of the undesirable populations.
That means the poor.
That means minority groups, blacks.
That means those that are seen as intellectually inferior.
I mean, this is called eugenics.
This is what Nazi Germany imposed to get rid of unclean races or races that were deemed inferior to whites.
And then, of course, they had their final solution of massacring millions upon millions of Jews.
And we're doing it today, Charlie.
That's the thing that a lot of people don't realize.
But the number one killer in the black community today is abortion.
People don't want to talk about this.
You're not going to hear this from Black Lives Matter.
You're not going to hear this from most pundits.
But the number one killer of Black lives today is abortion.
A black woman is three to five times more likely to have an abortion in America than a white woman.
They have been targeted from day one.
And that black genocide, as Dr. Alvita King, the niece of Martin Luther King Jr. says, that black genocide is being carried out today.
I tell people.
So Bader Ginsburg knew.
And I tell people all the time in these Republican consultant circles, I say things are changing in the black community.
The issue that gets them to just stop is when you say that your people have been killed by white liberal abortionists for the last couple decades.
And it really is a winning.
Things are turning in the black community on the abortion issue.
It really is.
And you've played a really big role on that.
Candace Owens has been speaking out against it.
And it's really interesting, Lila, because back in 2012, we were told not to talk about these social issues, right?
Don't talk about it, just fiscal conservatism.
And now you kind of look at the landscape and the issue of life is winning.
And I want to ask you about that in just a second, but I'm going to read from NARAL's website, okay?
I don't even know what NARAL stands for.
It's the National Association of Terminating Children or something, right?
They changed it.
That is what they do and what they are.
They changed it to be the National Association for Pro-Choice America, but originally they were for the repeal of all abortion laws.
So they don't want to say that anymore because it sounds too extreme.
So they now put the word pro-choice in their title.
That's very interesting.
I was actually looking at it.
I was looking for what the acronym stands for.
Okay, on their website, they're very angry people, by the way.
I get their emails from this woman, Elise Hoag.
She's always very angry.
Anyway, it says freedom is for everybody.
So Lila, they're framing it in terms of freedom.
Okay, let me just read this.
I want you to respond.
Reproductive rights are essential for achieving gender equality.
Reproductive freedom means having affordable access to all reproductive health care options, including birth control and abortion care.
It also means supporting people who choose to work while pregnant and those raising families.
They say it's an issue of freedom, Lila.
I mean, it's, it's, um, it's so, there's so many lies in there that are just twisted language.
I mean, just a couple of things to point out.
Reproductive freedom in an abortion.
What that, what they're really saying is we should have abortion for all nine months for any reason.
I mean, they're using words like parenting and families because they know that America is actually kind of against abortion.
We don't really like the idea of ending human life.
So they're trying to make it sound palatable.
But look at the language they're using, reproductive justice.
And abortion is taking place on a human child that's already been created.
Reproduction has already taken place.
So reproductive justice has nothing to do with abortion.
It has nothing.
In fact, it has to do more with making sure that women and families have health care so that they can conceive, so that they are able to be healthy and have good fertility and be able to have healthy bodies.
But reproductive justice is not about abortion.
And so to conflate the two is a sleight of hand that they're using to try to defend their indefensible position of being pro-abortion.
And then the other thing, to put in the words parenthood and families, I mean, Planned Parenthood does this too.
I mean, they call themselves Planned Parenthood.
No, they're trying to destroy parenthood.
And that's what they're doing every day in abortion facilities across America.
So the language is incredibly deceptive.
But that's all they've got, Charlie.
That's really all they've got because they know that if they went out and said, we love abortion like they do, it would be really unattractive to a lot of people.
Well, some people do that.
You have Amy Schumer.
Is that her name?
Not exactly a person I would consider be full of joy in her life.
She does her whole shout the abortion movement.
And yet shout your abortion is allowed to be on social media.
You guys have been taken off TikTok and other social media platforms for telling the truth about abortion.
Lila, are you seeing public polling or at least with young people, is life gaining traction?
Because we are told that young people are all pro-choice.
You can't talk about it.
Is that true?
Yeah.
So there's actually just a global study done, not just in the United States, but on nations across the world that showed that actually support for abortion amongst young people is ultimately slowing down.
And in many places, it's on the decline.
And that's because young people are spending a lot of time on social media.
They get access to other sources of information beyond this traditional pro-abortion news media.
And so they're actually seeing, wow, this is a human life.
And they're also realizing, look, you know, my generation, the generation before me, our parents' generation, are they happy?
Are they happy that they maybe aborted my siblings?
Are they happy that they aborted some of their children?
Are they happy that they're part of that?
That's the other part that no one talks about, Charlie, is that people are not, a woman who has an abortion is not feeling like, oh, I just had an abortion.
I'm so empowered.
I mean, it is devastating to so many women and they carry this silent grief.
So I think we're seeing that in the poll numbers.
I mean, recent Gallup polls, other polls that they do regularly on this shows that the abortion support, I mean, while there is some entrenched abortion support in our country that does exist and we have to fight that amongst young people, the numbers are looking more and more favorable because they are more identifying with the pro-life position and wanting abortion restrictions.
And the vast majority of Americans want abortion restrictions.
Yes, and it's gaining traction.
On your website, you say liveaction.org.
Everyone should go there and help you out.
2,363 pre-born children will die in America today.
Every 90 seconds, a child is aborted at Planned Parenthood.
Under federal law, preborn children can be aborted up until birth, and a pre-born person's life can be ended for any reason.
If I could get every American kid that's eight years old to be exposed to those four facts, I think our country would be a better place.
I really do.
And I think, Lila, what also is a deeper point here is just, do we value human life or is it, are we willing to discard certain human life for our own convenience?
And can you talk about, though, how rare abortions are in the case of rape and incest of a mother and life of the mother?
And I know there's a lot of pro-life people out there, and I believe yourself included, that believe that there should be restrictions on all forms of abortion except the very rare case of life of the mother.
But can you just talk about the qualifications that most abortions, 99%, 98%, are actually a form of birth control?
That it's now the primary form of, because just, I'm saying this for a reason, Lila.
They make it seem as if abortion is only in the case of rape or only in the case of incest.
It's actually the exact opposite.
Right.
You're right, Charlie.
I mean, the statistics that even come out of the Gutmacher Institute's Planned Parenthood's Research Arm say that even in the sort of more generous application of statistics, and again, this is from Planned Parenthood's Research Arm, it's less than 3% of abortions are in the cases of rape, incest, or life health of the mother.
There's a life-threatening condition for the mother.
So it's a very, very small fraction.
And some say as little as less than 1% of all abortions.
So it's an incredibly small fraction.
And that's what people say is the reason we need abortion on demand.
Well, we're talking about hundreds of thousands of children killed purely out of convenience and often out of fear.
I mean, fear is a real part of this.
And Planned Parenthood knows that and they prey on the fears of women.
That's why they were so adamant about remaining open during coronavirus because they knew that more people would be afraid.
And so they knew they could make more money and keep killing children.
And they were using, you know, personal protective equipment and keeping their clinics open while the churches were closed.
But it is less than 3%.
And even in those cases, I do want to address those cases because I think there's a lot of misunderstanding around that.
No, please do.
I want you to.
I think there's this.
Yeah.
Thank you.
Yeah.
So I think there's this sort of like gut reaction that we have, where if we hear about a horrific case of a woman being the victim of rape, right?
And she becomes pregnant, then we think, oh my gosh, she absolutely should have an abortion.
That's sort of this gut reaction we have culturally.
And it's sort of like a foregone conclusion.
But in the studies that have been done, and there aren't a lot, there should be more, but in the few studies that have been done, and we report on this at Live Action News, women who have an abortion after rape are not, their healing process is not aided.
Instead, actually, it adds more trauma to the original trauma of the rape.
In other words, abortion doesn't take away the trauma of the rape.
It doesn't unrape her.
That still happened to her.
It just adds another violent act on top of it, which is not just against her body with an abortion.
It's a very, very invasive, terrible experience, but also it kills a child.
So when you look at the statistics, women actually don't fare better with an abortion after rape.
And many women regret it.
They wish that they hadn't had an abortion, then they felt pressured to have it because, again, it's the foregone conclusion.
If you're pregnant after rape, you're like, you should definitely have an abortion.
Maybe that's not what's best for the woman.
And then the second thing to consider is the child.
If you're a child conceived in rape, whose fault is that?
Are you the criminal for that?
Or was it your father, this man who was the rapist who assaulted your mother?
He should get the penalty for that.
We don't even give the death penalty, Charlie, in America for rapists.
It's actually against federal law.
Rapists cannot be given the death penalty.
Why do we give the death penalty then to children conceived in rape?
Why do we make them responsible for the crimes of their father?
So for both the woman and the child, abortion after rape is not a solution.
And so when we educate on this, people are very much, they're more open to understanding that.
But again, because we have this knee-jerk reaction to it, and we've just been cemented and formed that way by our society and our media, it's hard for her to think otherwise.
But rapes survivors are not benefited by abortion, and that child conceived is certainly not, it's not their punishment to carry the crimes of their sins of their father.
That's a very compelling case.
I want to read something from a celebrity.
I don't really follow these people, but I saw it in a news feed and I checked into it.
Celebrity Salma Hayek.
I don't know if you've probably heard of her.
Yeah.
Don't exactly follow her.
However, someone sent me, it was really interesting because it was right on point.
Selma Hayek, five days ago, and I actually don't know where she stands politically.
I bet she's a leftist.
I just, I bet she's pro-choice.
Yeah, she's fairly left.
Okay, so I was a complete guess, by the way.
I just only use this as an interesting example.
I don't know if you saw this Instagram post or not, but I think it's really interesting and something you can use.
She said, quote, tomorrow, the tiny baby that formed inside my womb officially becomes a teenager.
They grow so fast.
And then she puts it in Spanish.
And I thought to myself, and she has a picture of herself pregnant and in front of a window.
I read this.
I said, why do you get to call it a baby?
But someone in your exact same form of progression of pregnancy could go to Planned Parenthood and they just say it's disposable.
Lila, what is their answer to that?
And isn't there some, isn't that a pretty good argument for us where life is not some sort of subjective, it's a baby for me, but it's a clump of selves for thee.
Right.
Right.
Yeah.
Reality doesn't work that way.
You know, you're either dead or alive.
You either exist or you don't.
And you can't, your value isn't assigned by whether or not your mother loves you.
You know, that doesn't make you valuable.
And as Mother Teresa says, you know, I will take your baby.
There's so many people out there.
And I work with thousands of them that are waiting on adoption lists, that want to adopt these children.
If a mother feels she can't carry that child to terms, so there's so many people ready to love a new child.
And so to say we should destroy that child, I mean, it is really heartbreaking.
And, you know, quoting Selma, you know, her saying, oh, this little tiny baby in my womb, now it's a teenager.
You see this a lot from celebrities, Charlie.
You see it from Chrissy Teigen.
You may know her.
She's very pro-child.
Married to John Legend, right?
Or something like that.
Married to John Legend.
Like, you know, Twitter personality has different like HTV shows or whatever.
But she has this whole thing about miscarriage.
And she was talking about seeing the ultrasound and hearing the heartbeat of her next baby and how amazing it was.
And you're like, that baby that is on ultrasound that you're admiring is the exact baby that the age of the baby, size of the baby, that you are advocating to be killed, that you say is what am I just killed?
You're not missing anything.
It's not logical.
It's not, it's not compassionate.
It's not fair.
But that's what we've allowed.
I mean, that's the schizophrenia of our society.
And it has to stop, Charlie.
I mean, that's why education is key.
And then also laws are key.
There will be some people who, because of the will to power, they say, I'm more powerful.
I get to do what I want.
That we need laws to protect these children just as much as we need a cultural change.
So that's why we fight for both.
So I'm going to read a question that we got emailed to us at freedom at charliekirk.com.
And we have some great listeners to our podcast, and we're actually convincing people towards life.
There's a lot of listeners that were previously not pro-life, and now they are.
And so there's a really good question that came in.
I'm paraphrasing this.
He said, Charlie, I love liberty.
I love freedom.
And I believe that abortion is wrong, but I don't think abortion should be illegal.
Can you convince me otherwise?
So that kind of goes to your part about laws.
Can you build that out for us, Lila?
Absolutely.
Well, let's consider another, an example.
In a situation, let's say of child abuse, right?
You can say, well, I would personally never abuse my child, but I don't want to infringe on somebody else's right to abuse their child.
I mean, would you say that?
Would this same listener who sent us email say that?
Laws Protecting Children 00:04:05
Probably not.
They'd probably say, no, child abuse should be illegal.
And if you are caught abusing your child, you should, you know, there should be a penalty for that.
That child should be protected.
Similarly, with abortion, if we know this is a human life, if we acknowledge the scientific reality, this is a human life, and that abortion intentionally and violently kills that human life.
And if we think that human lives deserve protection, which I think we all do, we think innocent people should not be killed and that the law permit that, then they should be protected just as much as anybody else.
And that's why this is a legal issue as much as it is a cultural issue.
Because if the law unfavorably chooses one people group to protect versus another, that's an unjust law.
Everybody has to have equal treatment under the law.
And you can't just be personally pro-life.
To be personally pro-life and say, I'm against it, but I would let other people do it is the same as saying, I'm against child abuse, but I would let somebody else abuse a child.
If it's a child, he or she deserves protection, and it's that simple.
Yeah, and that's why you have laws.
And if the opinion of somebody in that camp is, I want the decriminalization of all laws that protect the innocent, that's a pretty foolish worldview.
And if that's your opinion, then state it and defend it.
But if you all of a sudden have this belief that I'm going to have a set of laws for only people that are so old, okay, well, then what's your breaking point then?
Is it when they're one years old or two years old or why not two months old?
When the baby's DNA is formed.
Can you talk, Lila, about the miraculous nature of the DNA formation?
That there's something that science still cannot completely explain.
We call it the miracle of life.
We say it so often.
But when the egg is fertilized, there's something that will never be created again.
It is unique.
You and I come from the Christian perspective that it is God's hand in the creation of that life, just simply how God breathed life into existence at the beginning of creation.
Can you just kind of walk through about just how incredible it is and how we should value that?
Yeah.
Yeah, of course.
I love the way you're talking about it because it is, I think it is miraculous.
And there are things that science can explain.
Like, why is it that at the moment of fertilization, while all the DNA is present, so you have your XY chromosome, you have all your DNA present, or you have your, you know, if it's a boy or girl, depending what chromosomes you have.
And why is it that this unique organism now, individual human organism, is self-actualizing?
I mean, it has the power to actually grow.
It knows from its own design.
It has its own blueprint and it also knows to grow.
That is something science has trouble explaining because it is able without interruption with proper nourishment, if it's not aborted, if he or she is not miscarried, they will grow one day and into a full-grown baby, which can be born, and then one day into an adult.
And that is a miracle.
And it's hard to explain scientifically.
But one thing, other thing that you said, Charlie, about that kind of libertarian idea, which I just want to make another note there.
Yeah, I mean, I hear this a lot from libertarians or people that say, you know, the laws really should not get involved here.
And I say, well, why are you then against murder?
You know, why do you think the law should be involved with murder?
Or why should the law be involved with rape?
And even the best libertarian, the most liberal libertarian will say, yeah, of course we should have some laws.
And so again, logically, it follows if it is a child, if it's a human being in the womb, then they should be protected just like a born child.
So I know a lot of pro-life libertarians, but you can still be libertarian or you can still be very much pro-human freedom and be very pro-life.
The whole idea of a constitutional republic is to protect the rights of the weak against the tyranny of the strong.
That's why you have laws.
So you do not have hierarchies of people that come in with a bigger weapon or a bigger army and be able to abuse the weak.
That's why you have murder laws.
That's why we have laws against our government.
That's why in the Constitution, it explicitly says that Congress cannot do certain things, that you have the separation of powers.
It's the idea that the rights of the minority or those that might not have the same capacity as you actually matter.
And most importantly, the right to life.
Women Deserve Support 00:08:56
Lila, as we close this conversation, can you also talk about how they always frame this from a woman's perspective?
I'm on Planned Parenthood's website here, which I do not have a habit of visiting their website.
But they frame everything in a pro-woman lens.
That if you dare not support abortion, that is an attack on your femininity.
It is an attack on your womanhood, that you must fight the patriarchy.
And by doing so, you must be able to terminate pregnancy.
What is your response to the kind of pro-woman framing of this and how they just make this seem almost a man versus woman issue?
I mean, as a woman, I find it incredibly offensive because it's telling me that to be strong, to be empowered, I have to kill my offspring.
I have to commit an act of aggression and violence against my own flesh and blood.
And it's it's that women, it set women back.
It set us back, Charlie.
We are not happier by killing our family members.
You know, we are not more empowered by rejecting our family and our own, our own children.
And you look at the grief.
I mean, I have been privileged to talk to now, probably over the years, hundreds upon hundreds of women who have been, who've had abortions in their past.
And they're still looking at me with tears in their eyes because when that kind of moment of truth hits them, I mean, there's a moment of relief.
A lot of women do feel relief after having an abortion because they're like, okay, I'm out of the immediate experience of pregnancy.
You know, what am I going to do being a mom?
You know, many don't feel ready to be mom.
But then it starts to hit them as time goes by.
And there's all these co-occurring disorders they might have, you know, mood issues they may have.
I mean, many even have suicidal ideation.
A woman is actually 100% more likely to commit suicide a year after her abortion than before.
I mean, the suicide rate spikes amongst women who are post-abortive.
It's because you know instinctually that this is a life and that this was your son or your daughter.
So I am so angry at the abortion lobby to lie to women like this.
And they're profiting.
They make $500 to thousands of dollars off of each individual abortion.
They profit from this.
And it's 2,000 plus a day at Planned Parenthood.
They're an abortion factor.
Yeah, so it's millions of dollars they're making.
And every year, hundreds of millions.
It's a multi-billion dollar industry when you add up all of the abortions and everything that they're doing.
And I'm angry at them because women have been lied to.
We've been given these stupid lies about prenatal development, about empowerment, and we're not happier because of it.
And there's all of this carnage because of it.
The reality is women deserve support.
I mean, women deserve, and men, we need men to step up.
I mean, and thankfully, there are some laws like child support and things like that, but it's a cultural issue.
We need men.
If you're going to sleep, I mean, this is what I would say.
It's very, very blunt, but if you're going to sleep with a woman, be ready to be a father.
I mean, if you're, I think part of this is responsibility, personal responsibility that our culture has forgotten.
And women deserve that support because we do carry a lot.
I mean, being pregnant is no joke.
Having a child is a big deal.
And so how we view sex and how we treat sex also has to change.
I think that's part of the solution.
And we need men to step up and women deserve support.
One other thing there, that's why I'm also really proud of the thousands of pregnancy resource centers and the work in the Prolif movement to support women.
That is crucial work because we can't just say don't have an abortion and then like, you know, check out.
These women deserve our support.
Girls deserve our support.
And so if you're listening and you're, you know, wanting to get involved in the Perlif movement, I highly recommend, of course, check out Live Action, but we refer to and encourage the work of those supporting these women, supporting girls in need.
That is half the battle.
And so I encourage you to get involved.
CareNet is a wonderful organization.
Heartbeat International is another great organization that is doing amazing work day in, day out to serve women and communities and their families.
You hit it perfectly.
And I think every church in the country, especially these megachurches that build these endless mausoleums and these huge buildings and they go march with BLM and they don't support the Pregnancy Crisis Center.
They don't support the new mothers in their church.
I think it's gross and it's awful.
And I think the church needs to step up with the millions and billions and hundreds of billions of dollars that have been given to them and get involved in this fight for family creation for life.
The abortion industry right now, and you said it perfectly, it's a multi-billion dollar lobby.
They are a corporate lobby and their business model is hyper-sexualizing children.
You see that through QTs and Netflix, getting kids sexually active before they even become teenagers.
It's a big part of their model.
They go into grade schools.
Planned Parenthood does, and they teach the most graphic sexual education courses you can imagine.
It is, and then by the time kids are 16, they're already very sexually active.
And it's a real, and no wonder why they look at abortion as a form of birth control.
What's really horrifying, Lila, is we're on pace to have 500,000 less children next year than this year, is that our birth rate is now going down because, and the abortion rate is staying stable, if not going up.
And that is considered to be in a central activity, which is just so incredibly, it's just gross.
I used that word earlier, but it's true.
And I do think, though, that this confirmation fight, and I just want to encourage you, let's say it's Amy Coney Barrett or Barbara Lagoa, you know, at the recording of this conversation, we don't know, but it's probably going to be someone who's pro-life.
Millions of people, and I really believe this, will start the confirmation fight as someone who might be pro-choice, and we can bring them in the pro-life category.
This might be the greatest conversion opportunity for life we've ever seen.
Because what will happen is President Trump, who is the most pro-life president in American history, spoke of the March for Life, just signed the Born Alive executive order, has cut Planned Parenthood funding.
Gorsuch Kavanaugh and God willing, we'll get either Amy Coney Barrett or another Justice, Barbara Lagoa.
What will happen as soon as he nominates that person, because the left is so pathologically determined to oppose anything the president does, they will slander the pro-life views that that person holds.
And at that moment, you'll see Nayrall, Elizabeth Warren, every person on the left go and misrepresent the woman's rights issue.
And I just want to encourage you, Lila, go have those debates.
Go on television, if they'll have you, and contest for this because the truth is on our side.
And we can bring millions of people over into our camp in the next couple of weeks.
That's why I'm so excited to gear up for this fight because we've almost been waiting for this moment, right?
This is the fight that we have been waiting for.
And for churches out there, get mobilized.
Pastors out there get vocal.
And so it's more important than ever because the left is going to be geared up for their culture war.
And the final thing I'll say, and Lila, maybe you can help make sense of this.
Why are they so just pathologically obsessed with abortion?
Why does it animate them so much?
I mean, it's just a connection to that.
I have theories about it, but is there anyone you comment on that?
I have theories as well.
I think a lot of it is deep wounds that many people have.
They have been involved in abortion.
They've had abortions and they haven't healed from them.
They haven't reckoned with it.
And so because the killing of their son or their daughter.
And so their way to deal with that is by trying to get other people to have abortions too, ultimately, and make it okay for other people to have abortions too.
I think that's where you see some of this sort of almost instability.
Like you see celebrities or there was the March for Light, March for Women last year, which again, not March for Women, I mean March for Death, really.
And they're shouting their abortions.
Like you said, there's just like anger and this frenzy.
And I think it comes from a place of deep disturbance.
People are really disturbed because of abortion, and they think then they have to just have more abortions.
More abortions have to be permitted.
More people should have them.
I think that's part of it.
I'm also a person of faith, as I know you are, Charlie, and I do think it's spiritual.
I mean, we believe that evil is real.
I think everybody would acknowledge evil is real.
And evil is nonsensical.
Evil doesn't really make sense.
It just wants to kill.
It wants to destroy.
It wants to hurt and harm.
And I think there's that spirit alive, you know, even in the souls of people all over the world, that there's a spirit, the fight between good and evil.
And I think that's what this comes down to.
It really is a fight between good and evil.
And it's a fight for the future of our country.
What kind of country are we going to be?
Are we one that's built on basic human rights?
Are we one that protects the weak, that loves the child?
Or are we one that will throw it all out the window and destroy those that are innocent?
I choose life.
That's the country I'm fighting for.
And I know you're fighting for it too.
Liveaction.org.
Everybody, please, the fight for life is the fight right now.
It's the most important fight.
Get involved because we have to confirm the Supreme Court justice and it could reverse Roe versus Wade.
And we'll talk about that at a different podcast at a different time.
It's just so important.
God bless you, Lila.
Thank you so much for joining us.
Thank you, Charlie.
We learned a lot.
Thank you.
Keep fighting.
Thanks.
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