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Sept. 4, 2020 - The Charlie Kirk Show
30:04
Mail-In Voter Fraud - The Greatest Threat to Trump's Re-Election w/ Tom Fitton
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Hey, everybody.
Today on the Charlie Kirk show, we have Tom Fitton from Judicial Watch, who is the nation's leader in voter integrity, mail and voting, and so much more.
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Tom Fitton is here, everybody.
Buckle up.
Here we go.
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Hey, everybody, welcome to this episode of the Charlie Kirk Show.
Ballot Fraud and Street Signs 00:09:40
I am joined by my friend Tom Fitton, who runs Judicial Watch, one of the most important organizations in the country fighting because no one is above the law.
So first, Tom, I want to get into mail and voting, but can you give me a little update on the lawsuit that you filed with the city of Washington, D.C. when they decided to plaster Black Lives Matter on the street?
If I'm not mistaken, you guys sued to say, why can't we have no one is above the law or equal justice?
Is that right?
Yeah, our motto is because no one is above the law.
It's our motto and motivation.
We know that sometimes people act as if they're above the law.
And the city painted or allowed to be painted, Black Lives Matter.
And it essentially reads, Black Lives Matter equals defund the police just outside the White House.
And we're like, well, now the streets are a public forum.
Let's paint our slogan.
How can you argue with the slogan, by the way?
Because no one's above the law.
Not that we have to justify it.
And of course, the left-wing mayor of D.C. has been playing games with us, and we had to sue in federal court.
So now it's a big First Amendment civil rights lawsuit against the leftists who's not only suppressing our rights, you had a veterans group who wanted to do something.
They couldn't get it done.
You had a pro-life group, a student group who tried to do something.
They thought they had permission.
Then they said they didn't.
And then they drew something on the sidewalk saying about Unborn Lives Matter.
They chalked the sidewalk.
Unborn Lives Matter.
They were arrested.
So this is life in our nation's capital.
The great suppression continues, and we're fighting it in court.
And so what do you think the likelihood of you guys winning in court?
Because it just seems so incredible that if you espouse a certain left-wing dogmatic belief, you're allowed to plaster all over the city.
But it's not a public forum.
It seems like it's a political forum.
Well, I believe that the facts and the law being followed and the Constitution is being applied, we're going to win.
I think the city made a mistake.
They got caught up in the moment of this propaganda effort early on and this ideological statement about Black Lives Matter and defund the police.
And then when cooler heads prevailed, like Judicial Watch comes in and says, hey, look, what's going on here?
Can't we do this too?
They realize they had made a mistake.
Now they're stuck with an awful legal situation.
And I think we're going to successfully push back on.
But who knows?
That's what Judicial Watch is all about.
So let's talk about mail-in voting and make some sense of this mail-in voting controversy.
The New York Post published an unbelievable article that if, again, if this was beneficial at all to Republicans or conservatives, the idea of talking about voter fraud, the left would, this would be the number one story on the planet.
It said, confessions of a voter fraud.
I was a master at fixing mail-in ballots.
I don't know if you saw this article or not by John Levine.
I did.
A top Democratic operative says voter fraud, especially with mail-in ballots, is no myth.
And he knows this because he's been doing it on a grand scale for decades.
Now, why this guy's not in federal prison, maybe he is.
I might have missed that part, is beyond me.
Can you talk about just first and foremost, is voter fraud real?
Oh, of course it's real.
People cheat.
They cheat on everything.
People cheat at Solitaire.
So why wouldn't they cheat at elections?
And of course, it's happened throughout our nation's history.
There was a story a few weeks ago, an interesting piece of history I didn't know.
Abraham Lincoln was the victim of a mail-in ballot fraud scheme run out of New York.
So this is nothing new under the sun.
But this is a quote, by the way.
I'm going to surprise you who wrote it.
Blank ballots mailed might get intercepted.
Citizens who vote at home, nursing homes, workplace, or in a church, are more susceptible to pressure, overt and subtle, or to intimidation.
Vote buying schemes are far more difficult to detect when citizens vote by mail.
Who am I quoting?
Former President Jimmy Carter and former Republican Maven James Baker, I guess he was Treasury Secretary, White House Chief of Staff under Reagan.
Everyone on the left and right always understood voter fraud, absentee ballots, mail-in ballots are much more susceptible to voter fraud.
And now, though, because it's become partisanly convenient for the Democrats, the media has just decided to suppress the common sense notion that when you vote away from the polling place outside the oversight of government officials, campaign poll watchers, you're more susceptible.
It's more susceptible to ballot fraud.
And right now, we're going to be mailing.
This number is astonishing.
51 million ballots to people who haven't asked for them.
44 million ballot applications to people who haven't asked for them.
And it's a recipe for not only fraud and chaos.
You tie that up with ballot harvesting.
But I'm equally as fearful that people's votes will be lost.
Millions potentially of voters will be disenfranchised.
In the last primary, the most recent primary season, just here, 534,000 ballots were thrown out.
So ramp that up to a general election tsunami of mail-in ballots.
It's going to break the system.
Of course, you know, I don't even know if it's about voter fraud anymore.
I think it's just about breaking the system because it's pretty clear the left, if they don't like the results of the election, they're planning violence.
They're planning to go into Congress and threaten secession from the union by certain states in order to get the Electoral College the outcome they like.
It's not even about voter fraud.
It's about chaos in the sense of how is it we make sure that if the election goes the way we don't want it, we can plausibly steal it back.
So, but can you explain technically how this works?
So, millions of people are getting ballots that they didn't request.
I know lots of people that have ballots, dozens of ballots being sent to their house.
Is there any mechanism to actually correlate the one ballot to the one voter or are they just counted as every other ballot?
Because I know, and how is this different than absentee voting?
Because that's how the left is making the argument.
Well, in some states, they allow you to check to make sure that the ballot is when you mail it, it actually counted.
But we know the lists are dirty.
We've done an analysis in 2019.
There were hundreds of counties with more people on the rolls than eligible to vote.
We know in North Carolina and Pennsylvania, who we just recently sued, there are at least nearly 2 million extra names on the rolls.
In California, we sued to stop the governor from just mailing to the lists that he knew was dirty.
We knew, for instance, in Los Angeles County, because they're in the process of removing the names thanks to a settlement with Judicial Watch, there were 1.6 million extra names on the rolls potentially.
And he wanted to mail them all and was only stopped because we sued.
And of course, that's an indication there are bad names elsewhere, which he's mailing now.
But it's just like putting your finger in the dike when you're talking tens of millions of ballots going out.
We have to be thinking of ways to stop the ballots from going out because it's going to break the election, I fear.
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Well, I mean, just in Michigan on the August 4th primary, Michigan clerks rejected 10,694 mailed ballots and 846 of them were not accepted because the voter was dead.
Now, think about this, Tom.
This means that 864 ballots were filled out by living human beings they somehow obtained from dead human beings and sent them in.
I mean, and that's just one small example.
So can you answer this question?
Where's the Department of Justice here?
Why is the Department of Justice not taking this more seriously?
Well, this is another example of A.G. Barr.
He's a great communicator and a great leader on talking about these issues.
He had A really fiery discussion with CNN's Wolf Blitzer about it.
And but why aren't they cleaning up the rolls?
Why aren't they making sure the rolls are clean?
Judicial Watch is suing to do it.
Virtually no help from the Justice Department.
They haven't done any of that, practically speaking.
DOJ Silence on Crisis 00:15:17
This new scheme to mail ballots at the last minute, knowing that millions or ballots may not get to where they're supposed to be.
The post office has a delivery rate of about 10, 90, 91, 92% for first-class mail.
That means 8% of the ballots could be late and never counted at all.
Now, of course, the left's response to that is, what, oh, well, that's fine.
We'll just count ballots for days and weeks after the election.
In California, you may not know this.
17 days they plan to count ballots after the election.
17 days.
And there's this story in Axios Magazine or online where the leftist is saying, well, you know, Trump may win on election day, but we're going to be counting all those mail-in ballots and that will be a landslide for Biden then.
I mean, they're telling us how they're going to steal the election.
And this isn't a partisan issue because I'm concerned Democrats are going to have their votes either stolen or not counted because of this crazed effort to flood the mails with ballots and people relying on the mails.
I think that's a trust that's misplaced.
And I encourage everyone listening to me, whether you're a Democrat, a conservative, a Trump hater, a Trump lover, a Biden lover, a Biden hater, Jill Stein, whoever you want to vote for, vote in person.
It's safe and it's the best way to ensure your vote is counted.
And some people vote absentee, which is a different process in most states.
Vote by mail is something totally different.
It's different because a lot of people are getting ballots they never requested.
In the absentee, you actually have to apply for it.
But to your point, the absentee ballots are usually only 1% to 2% of all ballots cast.
It's very small.
It has to be approved.
It's for very specific reasons.
Sometimes you have to give a reason as to why you want the absentee ballot, like you'll be traveling over the country, or you won't be in town, or you're out of some other reason, right?
Where this is something totally different.
I mean, the polling place might be open right next door to you, and you might get a ballot and you say, Do I go vote there?
Do I do both?
And what's the mechanism to show that you don't do both?
Well, and I don't know the answer to that.
I mean, it's confusing.
Let's say you want to change your vote, or let's say you're not sure if your vote got there and you want to go in there and just vote day of.
You have to figure out what the state law is.
This is a mess.
And frankly, Charlie, I'm concerned about the absentee ballot process.
I've never been a big fan of it.
There's no excuse absentee balloting in too many states.
And right now, what the left is trying to do is undermine the modest security measures that are in place for absentee ballots.
So if you're used to voting for absentee ballots through absentee ballots, but you otherwise can vote in person, I'd vote in person.
And, you know, I know Republicans are of two minds on this because they want to get everyone voting any way they can.
They want to get votes and they don't want to accede to one side or the other.
But that's why you need independent groups like Judicial Watch, like calling it as we see it.
Voting by mail is a menace to free and fair elections.
And not only does it encourage voter fraud and ballot harvesting and other illegal intimidatory acts, but it could disenfranchise Americans unnecessarily.
So, but what is being done?
You guys are suing, but a lot of people ask, Charlie, what do I do?
Some people actually think Nancy Pelosi is going to become president in January because it's going to take so long for us to count the ballots.
I don't know if you think there's any wisdom to this internet rumor that has emerged because the system might actually just break beneath itself.
But what is being done?
I mean, are these state governments fighting up against this?
I mean, just in Clark County, Nevada, more than 223,000 mail-in ballots sent to registered voters were bounced as undeliverable.
Are Republicans fighting this on a state and federal level enough?
Well, the Democratic, excuse me, the Republican campaign, the Trump campaign, has filed suit in several places, successfully, some places, successfully not.
And the problem is under our constitutional system that state legislative action, even at even seemingly at the last minute, the courts are deferential to.
So it may be that it gets even too late for the states to change the rules.
But right now, the left is trying to change the rules to make sure that the security around these absentee ballot programs that are in place are further undermined by allowing them to be counted in a way that just will encourage massive fraud.
This is the crisis we're facing.
Those of us who are concerned about these issues, we have, I think, three groups, two or three groups on our side, Charlie.
And our side being those who support election integrity, want security, want voter ID, want clean election rolls.
I don't know, maybe we filed five, six, seven lawsuits among all of us.
On the other side, you're talking 160 lawsuits.
Unlimited funding, practically speaking, massive media support.
And they're trying to break the system.
We're doing our best to stand up against them.
And the president has been effective at highlighting the problems with mail-in ballots.
And so, you know, the Democrats, if they're smart, they're going to encourage people to vote in person because I think that many people are rightly afraid of mailing in ballots now.
And so they need to start getting their own people to the polls.
Indeed, Michelle Obama is backing away from that during the DNC convention.
You may recall, she talked about voting in person and how important it is to do that.
And what your listeners here can do, become a poll watcher, become a poll worker.
Apply to work at the polls because it's in the counting where the corruption can take place.
And, you know, if you're a liberal or a conservative or whatever, you have a right to become a poll worker.
And we want honest, good people who are going to do their jobs diligently to be at the polls and support other Americans who are going to vote there.
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So the Bloomberg group said the Red Mirage, which I don't know if you saw this or not on Axios and HBO, where they were bragging about how, well, it's probably true that Trump will win on election day and will look like he won.
But once we count all of our ballots, then we're actually going to see who really wins.
So how do people technically do something about this?
Become an election judge.
They just sign up on their local.
Tom, we must get thousands of emails a week of people that this is the number one issue in the conservative base right now is mail by voting.
Number one, I get more questions about it everywhere I go across the country from Montana to Colorado to Nevada, California.
People are deathly worried that the integrity of our system is disappearing, that it's no longer a system that can be trusted.
It's no longer a system that is rooted in fairness.
It now just seems like there's a partiality to it where if you are on the right political side, you're going to benefit from it.
So, how does one become an election judge?
Is it a simple process?
I know how to do it, but what's your experience with that?
Well, you go to the EAC, the eac.gov, electionassistancecommission.gov slash become a poll worker.
Just look it up.
Google it, bing, whatever you want to do, and it will give you to a site and it may even send you to a left-wing site.
But the left-wing site does send you to where you need to apply to become a poll worker in your individual state.
And the state's requirements for poll workers are different per state, but it's available for people to do.
They need the poll workers.
We need them.
I mean, I think most of your listeners and viewers probably recognize that coronavirus is no bar to voting in person.
As we've been pointing out, if Nancy can get her hair blown, you can vote in person, by gosh, and you should.
And there are other things you can do.
You can watch for a candidate of your choice, become a poll watcher.
The state laws vary on that, so you've got to figure out how to do that.
Ask your local U.S. attorney, who's your point man on voter fraud?
Who do I talk to if there are concerns?
Who can I tell my neighbors to talk to?
Ask your local district attorney, who do I call to report concerns about voter fraud or misconduct?
Put them on notice that you want them to be ready to handle this issue if it pops up.
And then, of course, talk to your members of Congress because the left doesn't really think about Election Day being one day.
They think of it as weeks, if not months.
And you pointed out, if it's not decided by January 20th because of a fight in the states that goes into Congress that ultimately approves the electoral, Nancy Pelosi becomes acting president, assuming she's the speaker at the time.
That's enough motivation for everyone to come become a poll watcher.
But at least Shelly got her hair done in the White House or something like that.
So I want to shift gears in the time we have remaining here, Tom.
It is now early September.
You and I talked about two months ago about Bill Barr and about John Durham.
Am I missing something?
Is there something coming very soon before the election?
You and I shared a cynical view of this back a couple months ago.
Do you think there'll be some indictments to hold these people accountable for what they did to our president, or is it going to be just more absolute lawlessness with no justice at all?
Well, I mean, if we're expecting accountability from the Justice Department for Justice Department misconduct and FBI abuse, I don't think, I think we're going to be disappointed.
They mishandled the plea agreement of the FBI lawyer who pled guilty to changing the document to make Carter Page into a bad guy when, in fact, he was a patriot.
He pled guilty by saying, well, yeah, I made a false statement, but I thought it was true.
Well, how's that work?
So they had that one plea that was handed to them on a silver platter last year, and they screwed it up.
And now, frankly, Charlie, I think it's too late.
I don't think there's no technical reason no one else can be indicted or prosecuted, but there's a lot of practical reasons why that's not going to happen, namely the election coming up.
And of course, you know, if anyone is indicted now and they choose to fight it, boy, what if Joe Biden comes in?
How's an Attorney General Sally Yates or Attorney General Hillary Clinton?
How are they going to handle it?
This has been a real disappointment.
And I've been sorely disappointed in the Justice Department's slow walking this investigation, protecting Hillary Clinton, hiding documents, obstructing Congress.
And look, General Flynn is still on the hot seat.
And the reason he's on the hot seat is because the Justice Department and the FBI stonewalled and hid documents from his team for years.
And frankly, they haven't been strong enough in trying to hold those responsible accountable for that misconduct.
So you and I share the same view.
It's now early September.
The president has differentiated, differed with you and I, though.
He thinks that indictments are coming.
And he hasn't said that explicitly, but he said that without saying it in a lot of his press conferences, that he thinks something is coming.
Do you think that he's being lied to by the people around him?
Well, I don't know if he said that.
I think he's hopeful something's coming.
Maybe I'm wrong.
I'm hoping I'm wrong.
I'm hoping maybe Brennan gets indicted.
Maybe Strzz gets indicted.
They certainly don't talk and act like they're fearing indictment.
I'm not seeing any evidence that there's going to be that there was even a serious investigation of senior-level officials.
You had Barr wall off Biden and Obama seemingly from even being questioned about this, even though they're directly implicated in some of the misconduct.
In the least, they're witnesses, don't you think?
Yeah, I mean, though, it's if Obama isn't question, then Durham hasn't done his job.
Yep, and it sure seems that way.
So Judicial Watch is fighting on a lot of different fronts.
You guys are also suing.
You're also involved in some lawsuits of some transparency around Biden and Hunter Biden.
Can you comment on any of that regarding Joe Biden and his time and his involvement in some of the spy scandal?
Yeah, I mean, we're not waiting for Durham.
And we've been doing all this work irrespective of the Justice Department.
That's why we're an independent group.
We don't rely on the Justice Department.
We hope they do the right thing and follow our lead.
You know, on Hunter Biden, we're just trying to figure out where he was during the Obama-Biden administration.
We found out he flew 400 times with Secret Service protection, including 29 trips abroad, five trips to China.
And I think there was a trip to Russia, too.
But that's even only part of the administration of Obama.
What else happened?
Where else did he go the last year or two?
And we're asking for those documents.
Plus, we want things on the firing, the firings in Ukraine.
We want to know about the China deal and Barisma and things like that.
You know, we're getting documents showing still.
You may have seen them, Don Trump Jr., Rudy Giuliani, Hannity, Luke Dobbs, Laura Ingram.
They're all being monitored by the deep state anti-Trumpers.
So what are you trying to monitor up by?
Conversations were being listened to or what?
They were tracking their social media in violation of the law.
You're not allowed to monitor the activities of an American citizen.
The Privacy Act prohibits it.
And they were caught doing it.
And the State Department in D.C. said you can't do it anymore.
And they had that, quote, stop, but they really didn't stop.
So was this by an embassy in Kiev or something?
Is that right?
Yeah, this was our main embassy in Kiev under then Ambassador Yuganovich.
And they were under significant pressure about the Biden corruption and the interference the Ukrainians committed in our elections in collusion with the Obama gang in the White House at the time.
You know, we're all supposed to forget about why Trump was impeached.
He was impeached because they were nervous about the questions he was asking about Biden.
And here we are now.
It's September, and no one's talking about how Hunter Biden's son sat on that foreign board.
Join Turning Point USA 00:02:35
You guys are.
I'm saying not many people in the activist media are at all.
No, not even the politicians who sometimes are our friends.
Yes, that's right.
That's right.
And the activist media did not cover at all that Handy and Bongino and many others, Ingram, were on an enemies list within our own government.
Yeah, that's how it looks.
It looks like an enemies list.
And if you work in government for any period of time, you know you can't start investigating citizens and creating reports on their social media or any other public activities without having a lawful basis for doing so.
And them being critical of you or you being nervous about their commentary on a topic doesn't justify creating the equivalent of an FBI file on them, the State Department version of it.
Taxpayer funded.
Could you imagine if the Trump administration did that against any of the Joe Biden or anyone else?
Anything else you, so, so Tom, what else are you guys working on in closing here?
How could people support you?
How could people get behind what you're doing?
You have a terrific book that came out called The Republic Under Assault.
How can people support you?
Well, the book's coming out in October, so people should pre-order it.
It's Republic Under Assault.
Look up my name, Tom Fitton.
Judicial Watch is all over the internet, Facebook, judicialwatch.org.
I mean, we have lawsuits on every issue you care about, from abortion to Biden to immigration to election integrity.
We're investigating everything, suing about everything.
I exaggerate, but pretty much everything.
And so if you're concerned about government corruption, you want to join our movement.
And we're the largest, best government watchdog group, not only in the country, but in the world.
I agree.
Well, Tom, thank you for the time here on the Charlie Kirk Show.
I hope that we'll be able to have some good news soon.
Maybe some indictments or a victory in November would be nice.
At judicialwatch.org, check out Republic Under Assault.
And thanks so much, Tom, for joining the Charlie Kirk Show again.
You're welcome.
Thank you, Charlie.
See you, Tom.
Thank you.
What a great conversation that was with Tom Fitton.
If you guys want to get involved with Turning Point USA, go to tpusa.com, tpusa.com.
Email us your questions, as always, at freedom at charliekirk.com, freedom at charliekirk.com.
If you guys want to subscribe to the Charlie Kirk Show, type in Charlie Kirk show, your podcast provider, hit subscribe, give us a five-star review, screenshot it, and email us, freedom at charliekirk.com, freedom at charliekirk.com.
Thanks so much for listening, everybody.
God bless you.
Talk to you soon.
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