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June 12, 2020 - The Charlie Kirk Show
33:37
Allie Beth Stuckey | The Dangers of ‘Woke Christianity’

Charlie is joined by the incredible Allie Stuckey, host of ‘Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey’ to gain an important faith-filled perspective on what’s unfolding in American culture, detailing the ongoing war on masculinity and why she believes...

Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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Evangelical Pastors and Compassion 00:02:49
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Hey, everybody.
Today on the Charlie Kirk Show, we have Allie B. Stuckey, one of the most listened to podcasts out there, is relatable with Allie B. Stuckey.
We're honored to have her today, a Christian conservative woman who understands the left, understands Marxism, understands the war on masculinity, and has a terrific new book coming out.
We talk all things in the news today, and she has a very unique, fresh perspective.
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Hey, everybody.
Welcome to this episode of the Charlie Kirk Show.
Honored to have with us today Allie B. Stuckey, who is probably one of the most articulate and vocal Christian conservative women in the entire country.
Allie, welcome to the Charlie Kirk Show.
Well, thank you so much, Charlie, and thanks for having me.
Of course.
So a lot happening in the world right now.
Yes.
I have been very outspoken against Christian pastors commenting on the entire conversation without giving the full picture.
You're an outspoken Christian woman, evangelical, if I'm not mistaken, or at least in that kind of part of Christianity.
What is your take on all this?
And how should Christians interpret how outspoken these pastors have been?
Look, to give most pastors, at least the ones that I've seen, evangelical pastors, the benefit of the doubt, I think they want to do the right thing.
I think they want to show compassion and sympathy for people who are hurting.
And of course, the Bible tells us to mourn with those who mourn.
And anyone with a Christian worldview saw the video happened to George Floyd and said, that is an image bearer of God.
And this is a tragic thing to watch.
We pray for his family.
We pray for justice to be executed.
We pray for righteous laws in a society where people are treated equally.
Student Loan Debt Solutions 00:02:55
All of these things are absolutely true.
What has disappointed me is not pastors saying that, which is biblically accurate, but pastors latching on to activist movements that want nothing to do with biblical Christianity and that go against, for example, God's definition of what the family is, of what morality is, of what society should look like, simply because they think allying themselves to worldly movements and to worldly organizations, well, I don't know, mark them safe from woke criticism.
I'm not really sure, but I have a lot of friends who go to churches that you would have thought and who say that they are theologically solid and maybe even theologically conservative, offering books and resources that are not just to the left politically, which maybe we could expect, but completely anti-biblical in their approach.
Rather than elevating voices, there are black conservative Christian voices that have another story to tell, that have another perspective to give, but too many woke pastors are scared to elevate that kind of that side of the conversation.
Instead, they're only going to promote things like Tenahisi Coates, who is an outspoken atheist, and they are going to promote things like white fragility and all of this Marxist nonsense simply because I don't think that they're educated in what the right point of view when it comes to race and these kind of issues is.
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So Allie, you said it's anti-biblical.
Can you dive deeper into that?
Yes.
So some of these, well, it depends on which parts you're talking about.
Biblical Justice vs Racism 00:07:52
So I believe that Marxism in itself is anti-biblical.
It breaks people up by these collectivist groups.
So by their class, of course, that's original Marxism, but cultural and social Marxism breaks people up by their socioeconomic class, by their sexual orientation, by their so-called gender identity and all of that.
And they assign oppression points to each class.
I'm not telling you anything that you don't know, Charlie, but just in case some people in your audience are unfamiliar, that kind of mindset, that collectivist mindset of mankind and splitting people up by perceived oppression is simply not biblical.
When we stand before God, we will stand before God as individuals.
Pastors will also give an account for their churches.
Fathers and husbands will give an account for their families, but we will stand before God as individuals.
God's justice is not a kind of collectivist justice that we see reflected in cultural Marxism.
We can look at how he set up the nation of Israel.
And even though we as Christians don't abide by the cleansing laws, for example, we can still see his heart for justice.
And what I like to point out to people is that God's definition of justice is direct, it's proportional, and it is individual, and it is based in truth.
And what we are seeing right now from cultural Marxists who have unfortunately used the tragedy of George Floyd to try to start some kind of cultural Marxist revolution is we are seeing a justice that doesn't meet any of the qualifications of God's definition of justice as proportional, direct, individual, and truthful.
We see them saying, oh, we want justice for George Floyd and we want justice by what?
By burning down buildings, by ruining the lives of, by the way, majority, minority people in these communities, poor people in these communities, we are going to murder other people for justice.
Where is the woke Christian pastor saying that's not God's definition of justice?
That's not God's definition of love.
That breaks God's heart too.
Too many pastors are too scared to criticize that because they are allowing the world and these unbiblical activist groups to inform them on what compassion and love and justice looks like rather than being light in darkness as we are called to be and informing the world to know here's what God's justice looks like.
Here's what his true compassion looks like.
Here are solutions that we believe can create a society in which all people in the womb and out of the womb of all different melanin counts are regarded as image bearers of God and are treated with value.
Too many pastors don't want to have that conversation.
They just want to be woke.
And that is an eternal, an eternal disservice to the people in their churches.
It's well said.
And what makes Western society different, and it's based on the Bible, it's based on the teachings of Jesus Christ, that you are made in the image of God, but you're your own sovereign being.
So your salvation is independent of your father or your mother's salvation.
So if your mother is saved, she can pray for you, she can pour into you, but you could go your own way.
And so, but you are basically categorized as your own human being.
The left all of a sudden is saying, no, that's not true.
That based on your skin color or your economic class, depending on which blend or flavor of postmodernist Marxist nonsense that you choose on the buffet line of how to destroy America, whichever one that you might select, they believe in blood guilt almost.
This is a return to 13th century feudalism, where if your father did something wrong against the king, he says you and your children's children and your children's children will be banished into the hills for XYZ generations.
And so they say, but you as an individual are privileged.
And so, Ellie, I'd love to have you comment on this because a lot of social media activists and Christian social media activists are buying into this.
Comment on that first of all, and then can you just cross-examine a lot of these Christian social media activists outside of the pastors that are posting the black squares, they are peddling the information.
Do you think this comes from a good place or maybe a somewhat in between place?
Please, I'd love to hear your thoughts on that.
Look, I think that we can't judge people's hearts because the Bible says Jeremiah 17:9, our hearts are desperately wicked.
Who can understand it?
But as I say that to the people who are posting the black squares, which by the way, I do not think is productive at all.
It's a form of slacktivism and it doesn't actually make any difference in anyone's life.
But I cannot judge every single person's heart who posted the black square.
Of course, I would like to think that a lot of people, especially my friends who I love and I know love the Lord, posted things like that.
I'm not going to judge people's heart.
But when, as I give that kind of deference, what people need to realize on the other side of this issue is that you have to give the same deference to every to other people when you're talking about racism.
So, racism, like all other isms, exists in the human heart.
Yes, sometimes we know what it looks like.
Sometimes it is very overt, and we can say, okay, that action or that word or that, you know, era slavery, Jim Crow, for example, that was obviously racist.
But for these people who are saying, well, basically, all things are racist.
And racism doesn't just exist in the human heart.
It exists in the mind of people who say what's racist and what's not.
And you, as a white person, you have no authority whatsoever to say what's racist, to say what's white supremacists.
You cannot even defend yourself against accusations of racism because you don't know what racism is.
That is what I have heard called someone named Vodhie Bakum coined this term ethnic Gnosticism.
This idea that you have special knowledge based on your ethnicity.
So you get to tell someone else what's racist.
They cannot say what's racist, and you can never be guilty of racism.
That is moral relativism.
Like that is not rooted in the objective truth of the Bible.
All isms go by one name in the Bible, and that is hate.
And we know that as Christians, hate is wrong.
That Jesus says that if you hate someone in your heart, that that is actually murder.
So he takes it to that level.
1 John tells us that we cannot hate our brother and say that we love God.
Those two things don't go hand in hand.
So Christians know that hate is wrong.
What we're not against calling out when someone hates someone because of the color of their skin.
Of course, we are for calling that out and calling for that injustice.
But again, this collectivist idea of justice, this idea of ethnic Gnosticism that says everything is white supremacist because someone says it is, everything and everyone is racist because someone says it is.
That is not rooted in the idea of objective truth.
And if you need to know what objective truth is, you find it in the word of God.
That's the beautiful part about being a Christian.
And what I try to tell Christians as well is like, look that the look at the so-called righteousness that the woke and that the secular world is prescribing to you.
It is ever-changing.
It is ever elusive.
They're basically saying that you never really will be righteous, that you literally have to take a knee or be prostrate on your face in order to be forgiven by our woke overlords.
Their standards are ever changing.
That is not a biblical standard.
The standard for the Christ follower is to love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength, to love your neighbor as yourself.
Jesus' burden is light.
His yoke is easy.
The yoke of the woke is really difficult, and their burden is really heavy because their standards of righteousness are changing.
So, my encouragement to Christians who feel weighed down, who feel like, okay, I got to know everything about white privilege, and I got to know everything about secret racism that might exist somewhere in my heart.
And yes, you should ask God to search your heart.
Modern Persecution of Christians 00:13:55
Just realize that God has already given you the standard that you need to follow.
He's already told you what righteousness and holiness look like.
He's already told you what justice looks like.
And he has graciously given us the objective word of God to be able to find those answers.
You're not going to find it in the book called White Fragility.
You're just not.
So that should be good news for Christians.
Like that should be very freeing and refreshing.
A lot of Christians, I think, have felt pressured to post things on social media that they're not really sure about.
They feel like, okay, I do, I want to say all lives matter because I know Jesus believes that all lives matter, but I think I'm going to be, you know, called a racist if I say that.
Well, don't worry about what the world calls you.
Worry about what God has called you to do and to be.
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So, on that note, there's so many young Christians that listen to our podcasts, both of ours, and we get hundreds of messages, especially recently.
I have never seen the digital assassination cancel culture as bad as it is right now.
It is the worst.
And quite honestly, not enough conservatives are taking definitive stands on this.
And our Republicans have been awful.
The president's been great.
So many Republicans have just run to the hills.
I talked to a couple of senators the other day, and they're cowards.
I'm not going to say their names, but they're like, well, it's a tough time for America.
I said, we're getting killed out here.
Young Christians are losing their jobs, are getting kicked out as fraternity sororities.
Some are getting kicked out of school.
There's a young lady that's a turning point USA ambassador, Reagan Escude.
I always mispronounce her last name, but she lost her job because Allie, she posted on her social media, the tenants of the Black Lives Matter movement are anti-biblical.
Lost her job.
Fired.
What do you have to say, especially to young women that are afraid to speak out, that are afraid to lose their jobs, that have a lot of, let's just say, cost associated with advocacy?
What is your message to them?
Look, the time is up for the cultural Christian.
So it is no longer easy or safe or convenient or popular or lucrative to be a Christian anymore.
And so all the people who were at one time Christian in name only because it was just the mainstream popular thing to do and they were too afraid to say that they're not Christians.
Well, those people are now, they are now able to be brazenly atheistic or agnostic or whatever it is because it is much more dangerous today to be a Christian.
It is much more costly to be a Christian than it is to be an outspoken atheist.
And so there is a lot of sadness and a lot of fear, of course, and a lot of caution and anxiety surrounding being an outspoken Christian right now because of the cost that is involved.
But I just want to encourage those young women that the Bible tells us that what we're going through right now, the persecution that you might be going through right now, the true persecution, I'm not trying to be, you know, hyperbolic or, you know, victimhood status or anything like that, but true persecution that you are going through right now.
God says that the glory that you will experience one day and in heaven far outweighs any persecution or any tribulation that you are going through right now.
What we have to realize is that the American experiment, as far as religious liberty goes, very, very rare, very unique point in all of human history.
For most of human history, Christians have been slaughtered.
Christians have been martyred.
They've been persecuted.
They've been thrown in jail.
They've been tortured.
They have been silenced.
Their churches have been burned down.
That is most of human history.
And in fact, it's happening right now.
And while I believe we should fight as hard as possible for religious liberty of people of all faiths for our protection, and I'm very thankful for what President Trump has done in the way of that, we have to realize also that the persecution that may be coming and that is already here right now is what our brothers and sisters in Christ have been experiencing all over the world.
And Christ gives you the same strength, the same calling that he has given to every other Christian in all of history.
And the perseverance, the endurance, the sticking to the truth will one day be worth it, even when it hurts right now.
Amen.
And Allie, you just brought a great point up.
And Christianity has gone in many different cycles.
But for people that have studied the entire lifespan of Christianity, the first couple hundred years of Christianity was a struggle.
I mean, there was persecutions, there was martyrdom, stonings.
A lot of Christianity in that period of time was an almost an underground cryptic.
Like they were almost literally in the crypts.
It wasn't until Constantine's conversion when a lot of that changed, where it became a predominant, almost widespread institutional religion.
Still a lot of persecution of Christianity has existed.
However, what you said is a very interesting point, and I'm going to repeat it now.
I will attribute to you, where now Christianity has actually gone through a pivot moment.
Whereas when I was growing up, it was non-controversial.
It was widely accepted.
And it was actually in the hierarchy of what was considered to be okay.
It was definitely in that bucket.
I think that has now switched, where now you are criticized, persecuted, kicked out.
And now Christians have never been absent of persecution.
I'm not saying that, but what I'm saying more structurally, I think those tables have turned.
Can you comment more on that?
Yes, I think that you're absolutely right.
And what we are seeing right now in the rioting and these so-called autonomous zones and really just the whole revolution and the ideas behind the revolution are anti-God ideas.
And we have talked about this before about how they have the people who are screaming, abolish the police, abolish prisons, pretty much don't have a justice system, don't have our rule of law that is based not on their political beliefs, but on their theological beliefs.
It's a godless belief because they don't believe in true human nature that we read about in the Bible, that you and I are naturally depraved, that we have original sin, and that's why we need to be saved by Jesus, our Savior.
They don't believe that.
They believe that human beings are naturally good, but societal oppressors like the police or like prison systems make people bad.
So if we release people from all of that, we won't really need a rule of law.
We won't really need law enforcement.
We won't need any kind of prison system or anything like that.
So those are our disagreements.
They are very fundamental disagreements.
And we're already seeing the manifestation of building, trying to build a kind of society or a governance on that godless idea that human beings don't need a law.
They don't need discipline.
They don't need law enforcement.
We're seeing exactly what that looks like.
It's anarchy.
It's burning things down.
It is looting.
It is absolute chaos.
It is amorality, immorality, killing.
It's exactly what you would think it would be for a society to completely abandon the God who made them.
As C.S. Lewis argues, is a lot of people have argued without a supreme moral lawgiver, which we as Christians know to be God, there is no moral law.
Everyone is their own God.
Everyone has their own individual morality.
And what everyone is their own gods, and you live in that kind of like individual, if you want to call it, a theocracy where everyone is kind of saying what morality is for themselves and their own truths and moral relativism and all of that, you get chaos.
We can't agree on anything.
We can't agree on the fundamentals of what society should look like.
And that is the dichotomy that we're seeing in America.
And if you want to go down that route, all you have to do is look at the literal burning down of cities to know what that kind of governance, what a godless governance looks like.
Yeah, without a God, right and wrong is just an opinion.
I mean, without God, it is just, well, I don't think burning down a building is wrong because it's my truth.
I mean, my truth is that arson is beautiful.
I'm like, well, you probably like modern art too.
So that's a different conversation for every time.
So what you've mentioned, though, is so important.
I did an entire podcast on this, which is now we're having an entire conversation of human nature, which in some ways is simultaneously depressing and also awesome.
It's depressing because we shouldn't have to have this conversation in the year 2020.
We have an abundant, unlimited amount of history and text to show that human beings are flawed by nature and that it's not private property.
It's not the system that makes you murderous or racist or likely to do evil.
In fact, the entire 20th century should be a pretty good instruction manual, just the 20th century.
You're 1900 from 2000, 100 million people murdered.
I also believe, Allie, that there's a war on men in our country, that there's a war on masculinity.
And that because I did an entire podcast on this, you are a, obviously, you're a woman, you're an outspoken, you know, conservative woman.
And typically, I get criticized by people on the far left, especially feminists, for even saying that there's a war on men in America.
And as an extension of that, there's just weak men in America.
And so I think the war on men creates weak men.
You know, a lot of young women come to me, and a lot of young women listen to this podcast say, where can I find good men?
What is the solution here?
I'm just going to kind of leave it to you to take it wherever you want on this, but what's your comments on the entire role of the masculine in American society?
Yeah, so this is another, I think, this is another way that Marxism, or at least the idea of Marxism, has infiltrated our society.
That we have the oppressed class and the oppressor class.
And we have decided that men, because they established the country, because they had the most rights first and all of that stuff, that they are part of the oppressor class.
And so we kind of, in a collectivist way, we ascribe that to them.
And therefore, because of the rules, stupid rules of intersectionality, we ascribe social capital and political capital to how many oppression points you have.
So, for example, you have zero oppression points because you are a straight white male and Christian and all of that.
That's just terrible.
I probably have like one oppression point because I am a woman.
And that's how these intersectionalists, again, a godless mentality, that's how they view the world.
And that's how they view who has credibility, who can speak on something, and who can't.
And so I think that's part, at least partly, of what is under this hatred of masculinity is seeing it as some sort of oppression.
But it is also just a simple rebellion against God.
It simply is.
Now, of course, we know that God transcends our understanding.
God the Father transcends our understanding of what, you know, of male and female.
He's not like a human body, but he does describe himself as a father.
Jesus obviously came in the form of a man and he is a king.
There are masculine attributes that we see attributed to the Godhead.
Not that there aren't any feminine attributes, but he uses masculine pronouns.
He uses masculine descriptions to describe himself.
And I do think that a lot of the rebellion against masculinity is also rebellion against God himself.
There are a lot of so-called progressive Christians that insist upon referring to God as a she or as a mother.
So I guess you have to use the correct gender pronoun for everyone except for God.
And I think that is part of what's behind it too.
Again, godlessness leads to insanity.
It leads to illogic.
It leads to pushing away things that are good, things that are necessary for society.
We know that strong men, strong, responsible men, men who want to take care of their families, take care of the weak, not exploit them, take care of women, take care of children, that is part of the bedrock of society.
And with weak men, you have an entirely vulnerable society.
I had a conversation with someone.
I don't always engage with people who send me Instagram DMs, but I was like, what the heck?
This person had an interesting take about abolishing the police.
And I just asked her, you know, what she thought.
Who are you going to call if you get assaulted or something like that?
Do you believe in the Second Amendment?
No, she doesn't believe in the Second Amendment.
And I said, so who am I supposed to call?
If someone breaks into my house, my husband is at home.
I'm protecting me and my child.
What do I do?
She told me, and this is an exact quote, that it is internalized misogyny that I believe that I wouldn't be able to, even without a gun, defend myself from a man who breaks into my home.
So they don't see the value in masculinity because again, they don't believe in inherent human nature.
Escaping Toxic Self-Love 00:06:05
They don't believe in basic biology that men just are stronger than women are and we need that.
It is a denial of reality.
It's a denial of what's good.
It's a denial of what's necessary.
It's a denial of human nature.
I think a lot of that is also behind the suppressing of masculinity.
And we were talking about woke pastors earlier.
Quite frankly, I think a lot of pastors, again, buying into this, oh, I just have to be, I can't speak the truth.
I just need to be loving and gentle and not really say anything offensive.
They feminized themselves.
They feminized the pulpit.
They've tried to feminize the gospel.
They've tried to feminize the word of God to appeal to what they think are oppressed feminists.
And that, again, is an eternal disservice to the people who are in the church.
So we, as Christian women, we have to honor responsible, Christ-like men who are masculine in all of the wonderful and good and godly ways that we want them to be.
We also know that masculinity, when it is unbound by morality, it can also be extremely destructive.
Women also need to realize that, but we need to honor and recognize and encourage good masculinity in our sons, in our husbands, in our brothers, and in our friends, and realize that there truly is a war on masculinity.
And that is one of, that is probably our first line of defense against chaos and enemies, both domestic and abroad.
It's really well said.
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So you have a book coming out called You're Not Enough, and that's okay.
I totally agree.
In fact, that is my message to young people is to basically, for the first time in a lot of these young people's lives, when they ask me about life advice and I speak at churches, I'm actually probably pretty brutally honest to them.
And I'm like, I actually, I reject the self-esteem movement.
I think the self-esteem movement has done so much damage.
Oh, yeah.
Like, you're the most wonderful thing in the world.
If I'm the most wonderful thing in the world, why am I at school?
I mean, why am I here?
I'm like educating myself.
I think self-control is way more important than self-esteem.
Tell us about your book.
Tell us why you wrote it and how people can check it out.
Like you said, it's you're not enough and that's okay.
Escaping the toxic culture of self-love.
We go through five myths that I see young women just bombarded with on a daily basis.
You can't love other people until you love yourself.
You determine your own truth.
And, you know, some other myths.
I don't want to give them all away.
And we just talk about how society, how social media, how even so-called Christian influencers are feeding us these messages, where they are actually coming from.
I mean, this is decades of atheistic psychology and new age mysticism that is being wetted together in a philosophy that is now infecting our current age and especially young women.
And even again, infiltrating the church and Christian influencers.
And it is destructive.
It's destructive.
It warps your view on who God is, on who you are, why you need a savior, what sanctification is, and it robs you of the true joy and satisfaction and purpose that can only be found not in self-love, but in self-denial empowered by the Holy Spirit in Christ.
And so we just debunk five myths about this whole self-esteem movement and we refute them with the truth of God.
And we end it all in bringing it all together by saying, This is all good news.
I'm not pushing for self-deprecation or self-loathing or self-hatred.
Those are actually all forms of self-obsession as well.
But taking our eyes off of ourselves on the Lord and putting them on the Lord and the needs of other people and how that leads to the joyful and purposeful life that so many young people are looking for.
It's well said, Allie.
And surrendering and knowing that you're not the most important thing in the world is actually rather liberating.
And I think young people need to hear that message.
So, well, thank you for joining the show, Allie.
Check out Allie's podcast, Relatable, with Allie B. Stuckey.
And thanks so much for joining the show.
Thanks so much, Charlie.
You bet.
Talk to you soon.
Thanks so much for listening, everybody.
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