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Jan. 17, 2019 - Sargon of Akkad - Carl Benjamin
32:05
A Discussion with an Anti-Racism Activist
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Hello everyone, I'm interviewing Syra Rao, a former congressional candidate and racial justice activist.
Syrah, how are you doing?
I'm good.
How are you?
I'm very well, thank you.
Thanks for agreeing to come on and have a talk with me because I've been following you on Twitter for a while and I find myself disagreeing with your worldview.
And I wanted to kind of understand it more.
Sure.
So I'm not trying to grill you over any of your tweets or anything, but I'm going to have to read them out to be able to contextualize it for the audience as to what we're talking about.
And so hopefully you can sort of expand the way that you view things on this.
So two days ago, you tweeted lots of chatter about an impending race war.
It's starting the heavy topics, so at the beginning, I suppose.
The race war has been raging for centuries.
It's been white folks beating, battling, assassinating brown and black folks.
It only feels like a war to you now because you're not winning every second of every day anymore.
Could you explain that to me, please?
Sure.
Yeah.
It's basically, and I'm going to just talk specifically about the United States, where I live, born, and raised.
Okay.
So let's look at the history of the United States.
This country is founded on genocide of Indigenous people.
That's a fact.
And then was built on the backs of enslaved African people.
And, you know, like that's, that's the history of this country.
And we've not had truth and reconciliation here in the United States.
And I'm sure you've heard because, you know, it's not a secret.
We have a big problem with police brutality against brown and black folks.
State-sanctioned assassinations.
That's what that is, is state-sanctioned assassinations.
And what has happened since Donald Trump was elected, frankly, is, look, I'm not a fan of Donald Trump's at all, but I will give him this.
He has exposed America.
He's exposed white liberal America for being every bit as racist as Republicans and white conservative America.
And that's what I mean.
So what's happened in the past couple of years here is brown and black folks who have always experienced racism in this country are now really collectively, and by the way, this has been happening for a while, but in much greater numbers, are fighting back and not tolerating it and calling people out like Nancy Pelosi and Elizabeth Warren and Hillary Clinton, you know, like the patron saints of liberalism and all that is good and progressive for being racist.
And so it feels, you know, when I was running for Congress last year, the woman I was running against who is now a 12-term incumbent Democrat, white liberal lady in Denver, kept whispering, Cyra Rao is starting a race war.
I mean, that would be incredibly hubristic of me to say that I have started a race war.
That's what I'm talking about.
The race war has been going on, but it has been white people doing all those things that you just ticked off on my tweet.
And now it feels to white folks like there's a war, but the race war has been going on.
They just happen to not be winning every second because we're calling them out.
We are not letting them win at every single turn.
So that's what I meant by that tweet.
Right.
So that seems to be a huge series of statements to me.
And I, I mean.
What do you take issue with?
Almost all of it, actually.
Yeah.
Tell me why.
Yeah, I will.
I will.
But I'm trying to, I'm trying to think of which way is best to approach it in the beginning.
Okay, so I don't really agree that it was a racial genocide that was going on in the conquest of the Americas.
I mean, there was, it's, I mean, obviously it became about race later on, but I don't think it was consciously about race in the initial stages.
And I think the disease had more parts play in that than anything else.
But I'm not trying to talk about, you know, or excuse or justify or anything like the events of the past.
Of course, there were genocidal actions.
No, I just, I completely disagree with that, but I mean, I can't.
No, no, no, continue.
Continue.
This is what I'm, yeah, yeah, that's fine.
And so to say then, I mean, white folks beating, battling, and assassinating brown and black folks.
I mean, it just seems to be a mischaracterization of what's gone on and a kind of totalizing of the narrative that's being presented to demonize white people as if what they have done in the past is unique.
And I don't believe that it has been.
So I find that kind of strange.
And I don't think that white people currently think that they're fighting a race war.
So when you say that, you know, there's a race war that's been going on for centuries and now that you're losing it, you're concerned.
I don't think they considered themselves to be fighting any kind of war.
So I guess, yeah, so the whole tweet to me is just, I mean, it just doesn't, it doesn't fit into a worldview that I'm familiar with is how I would feel about it.
I want to take issue with one thing, a lot of things that you just said.
First of all, I want to be clear that I'm not demonizing white people.
And we've got to agree on that or else there's really nothing else to talk about.
I'm demonizing white supremacy.
And in order and to conflate the two is actually gaslighting.
And so it's very easy to say, it's easy to write people like me off.
And by the way, there are lots of me's.
You know, I'm not super unique here.
I agree.
It's easy to write what we're saying off by saying that we're demonizing white people, right?
So to flip this, just like white folks do, I'm not racist.
I've got a brown friend.
I've got an Indian friend.
I've got a black friend.
I can't, I'm not demonizing white people.
I've got white friends.
My partner at my business is white.
I drink milk.
I like white things.
I mean, you realize how silly that sounds, right?
So I'm not demonizing white people.
I'm demonizing white supremacy.
And white people are, this is, and you'll probably bring up this tweet too when I said, when I said all white people are racist, right?
So I want to say this.
We are all part and parcel of white supremacy.
So how does that show up?
White people cannot avoid being racist because they are born and bred into it and have been marinating it in it forever.
So brown and black people can't avoid white supremacy because we have internalized our oppression.
So what does that look like for me personally?
I'll get very personal.
I grew up thinking white people were better.
Why did I grow up thinking white people were better?
Because that's been fed to me my entire life.
You know, you'll probably recall British colonization of India.
I just got back from India.
Trust me, Indian people think white people are better.
It's been beaten into their heads.
That's just, you go all over India and there are ads of literally whitewashed Indians.
Indians are not white.
Look at me.
I'm not white.
You go to India and every doll that's sold in a store is a white doll.
All of the ads are whitewashed, either whitewashed Indians or white people.
And so that's what I'm talking about.
You know, like I'm not talking about demonizing white people.
White people have absolutely no way of not being that way.
What I'm demonizing is not accepting that, getting fragile, getting defensive about it, getting angry about it, calling people like me reverse racist.
I can't be reverse racist.
There are two parts of racism.
One is prejudice and two is power.
So I literally cannot be racist against white people because I don't have power over white people institutionally.
So let's start with that.
I'm not demonizing white people.
I'm demonizing white people.
That sounds like a good place to start from.
Hang on, let me grab a glass of water.
Sorry.
No problem.
No problem.
Keep talking.
Well, when you get back, I'll just clip this gap out.
Sure.
Okay.
So I've got to put it, the videos side by side.
Cool.
Okay, so let's start with the separating white supremacy from whiteness.
From white people, sorry.
How exactly do we go about doing that?
Because as I would understand it, the concept of whiteness, is that separate to the concept of white supremacy or is it?
So I'm sorry.
Sorry about that.
Let me ask you this.
You as a white man, are you able to say to yourself and to other people, I am a white supremacist?
Or are you able to say that?
I could physically say I am a white supremacist, but I don't believe myself to be a white supremacist.
Do you acknowledge that white supremacy exists?
There are white supremacists.
I don't think I'd say we live in an active state of white supremacy.
So I think that's problematic.
So I think that, so here's what I can say, right?
Because there's racial hierarchies in white supremacy.
Everything is conditioned on anti-blackness.
Everything.
So what does that look like in Asian communities, specifically in my Indian community?
It means that I'll give you a quote, a friend of mine growing up, Indian dude in Richmond, Virginia.
So I grew up in the capital of the Confederacy a little bit more than 100 years after slavery ended, right?
So he would get brutalized at school.
He was called everything in the book.
We all were, right?
But he had other things going on.
But I remember him specifically saying, at least we're not black.
Okay.
At least we're not black.
So anti-blackness is the benchmark of everything.
So for me to say that I'm not anti-black is intellectually dishonest.
I am anti-black because I was raised anti-black.
So what does that mean?
Acknowledging that I'm anti-black.
Why can't you do that?
Why can't you say that?
Because you can't change anything.
You can't dismantle systems of oppressions, of oppression until you acknowledge it.
So what does that mean for me?
I check myself every day.
I think about this stuff every day.
I tweet about this stuff every day.
I have meetings with lots of black and brown and white people talking about this.
But it would be incredibly hypocritical for me to point my finger at white people and saying, you know, you guys are white supremacists without checking my own anti-blackness.
And that's the reality.
So when I say, why can't you, we get nowhere.
We get nowhere in this.
If you can't acknowledge you are complicit in systems of oppression, then it's a very easy way to be part of the problem and not the solution.
So I've got lots of white friends.
There are lots of white people who are in this anti-racist racism space.
So you can talk all you want.
I'm not racist.
That guy's racist.
I'm not racist.
The KKK is racist.
It deflects, right?
And why do marriages fall apart?
Marriages fall apart because people don't talk about things and people don't acknowledge their own fault in things.
That's why relationships end.
White supremacy, misogyny, ableism, all these systems of oppression persist because people cannot acknowledge their own complicity.
It is very easy.
So I watched her thing with Candace Owen, which was interesting, and I find her to be interesting, especially when she said that Donald Trump saved Western civilization.
I'd love to chat with her about that a little bit more.
Not wrong to say that Democrats expect all black and brown people to be Democrats.
Democrats are every bit as racist as Republicans, every bit as racist, except they're in the closet about it.
Republicans frankly, are pretty out in the open about their racist right.
Okay um, okay so, can it?
Okay so oh, my god, there's so much, so much here that um I I, like I said I don't even know where to begin.
Um okay so, like I, the only the only way, it seems, that you're suggesting that I can be um, anti-racist or in in any way not racist, not even anti-racist, but just uh, a racist is for me to be checking my privilege with black and brown people every day, talking about it and promoting black voices.
This sort of thing um, it seems like a kind of form of self-abasement, and it comes from a position that I think is a that includes a series of presuppositions that I don't consider myself to hold like for.
Okay, I mean, I suppose the first thing we should talk about is, what's your definition of oppression?
How do you, how do you, conceive of the term oppression?
Sure, it's power dynamic, who has power over whom and who is keeping people down, and who's who's?
Who's there to maintain power, and again, i'll be very like in the United States, that is, white men cisgendered, straight white men, in most cases also wealthy, that's, that's, those are the people who are in power.
Um, what you're seeing right now in Congress, with these like badass brown and black women who've like taken charge, all of the nonsense surrounding them, is because it's it's very, it's very jarring to see people who look like me now suddenly in their ranks of power.
You're seeing, the reaction is like freaking out and frankly, freaking out on both sides.
Right, the Republicans are freaking out about Alexandria Acacia Cortez just, you know who else is freaking out?
The, the left, the liberal.
Right, they can't handle it because people like her are not supposed to be powerful, and so that's what i'm talking about.
Oppression is like how, who has the power and what is being done to maintain power and what is.
But by keeping things out of the dialogue, by writing me off as a reverse racist, by writing me off as crazy or hateful um, it's a very easy way of keeping the, the status quo in place, right?
So I mean, that's correct.
They are trying to maintain a kind of status quo, but I, so I, I don't, I don't consider uh, oppression to be um, who is using what form of power to hold another in a certain position?
That's not how I would define oppression.
I would define it as cruel or unusual treatment over a prolonged period of time.
Um, I think that hierarchies have to be justified.
Now there, I think there are some hierarchies that are justified, some hierarchies that aren't justified, and the way that I think that we in the West do justify hierarchies is through democracy.
We elect our leaders, and that's how we consider them to be legitimate.
So if we end up electing white people or black people or brown people out whoever um, as long as they've gone through a formal, Formal electoral process and there's no evidence of any kind of corruption involved there, that swung the vote, then I don't see why I would consider any of these elected leaders to be illegitimate.
And so any decisions that they made regarding the laws, I would necessarily have to find legitimate following on from that because they're an elected leader, which means that if someone breaks a law, then they are breaking an they are breaking a legitimate law.
And so they are the ones in the wrong.
And so they should be punished for that.
But you don't seem to see it that way.
You see it as just being the status of having the position of power in the first place.
Is that correct?
Well, even under your definition, it still works.
And so, again, I come back to why I think Donald Trump has actually done sort of a good thing.
Well, hey, before we go on, when you say it still works, what do you mean there?
Because I think that there's a contradiction there.
What I'm trying to tell you right now is I don't believe we have a democracy.
We don't have a democracy.
Our democracy is a farce.
It's a total farce.
So elections are bought and sold.
Completely.
I mean, there's no question about that.
And we have what do you mean by bought and sold?
Companies.
Companies buy elections.
You mean influence in the media, right?
It's not just influencing the media.
Companies pay.
Look, like our greatest Democrats, go look at where Nancy, go look who's funding Nancy Pelosi's campaigns.
Go look at who's funding Elizabeth Warren and Diana DeGuette, the woman that I ran against.
Pharmaceutical companies, healthcare companies.
And on the other side, it's the NRA, the gun lobbies.
They're funding.
They're getting these people elected and then they're beholden to these people.
So that's what I mean.
Okay, but before we jump on there, because I mean, getting these people elected, what they're surely doing is giving them money to be able to influence the media.
I mean, they're not simply like buying votes, raw votes.
I disagree on that.
I mean, like, I fundamentally disagree on that.
Why would a pharmaceutical company give millions of dollars to a candidate, period?
I mean, there's just-so the candidate will act in their interest, but they still can't force the voters to vote for the candidate.
So, I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm totally against like the corporate side of the Democrat and Republican parties.
You know, I think they're atrocious and people should vote against them.
I mean, I've never taken any corporate money myself, and I'm just a YouTuber, you know, but I don't do that on principle.
So, I completely agree that they are buying candidates, but I don't agree that that's the same as buying the democracy because people still have to vote for the candidates.
The corporations aren't buying the votes to give to the candidates.
The candidates are using their influence.
And frankly, I mean, it's an unhealthy relationship between the corporate media, the corporate candidates, and these great companies that make up the establishment.
They form an unhealthy sort of symbiotic relationship.
And I completely agree.
But I don't agree that that's the same thing as saying we don't live in a democracy.
It's just one of the forces that exists within democracy.
That's how I see it anyway.
I'm not, but, but, but I disagree with that.
If you get millions of dollars from a company and you're trying to challenge somebody, I mean, again, I can just use mine.
I didn't take any corporate money.
My, the woman does.
And, like, she's able to send out 10 billion flyers.
I was able to send out two.
You know, like, it's it by like logistically, it does work out that way.
But, like, let's shelve that for a minute.
There's also rampant, rampant voter suppression in this country.
And it's, and it's, and it's with brown and black people.
I mean, take a, take a look at what happened in Georgia.
Take a look at what happened in Florida.
I'm not, I'm not so conversant on that part.
So do you want to just quickly tell me?
Sure.
I mean, a lot of people spend a lot of money to suppress brown and black votes.
How are they suppressing them?
Like, literally, like, not like making sure that they don't vote.
I mean, like, I'm not going to go in a deep dive on what happened in Georgia, but like paying people off, like just there's like, there's a whole history of voter suppression in this country.
And, and, um, and there's, there's like, there's not, there's not a holiday in this country for election day.
So who doesn't get to vote on election day?
Like people who actually have to show up for work.
And like there's a huge racial wealth gap in this country.
I mean, that's no secret.
Go Google it.
So it's like, that's why AOC wants to, you know, replace Columbus Day with Election Day for a federal holiday.
I mean, I just, I think that our democracy is a farce.
I do, I do think our democracy is a farce.
And also, it's only very recently that people of color have even been able to vote.
You know, like it's been in the past 50, 60 years.
So I just, I just disagree with that.
I don't think our democracy is working.
Maybe your, maybe yours works better, although based on what's happening right now, I would argue that.
It's not much better, no.
But the thing is, I'm not like, okay, so, I mean, it's only like 100 years since white people can vote.
So it's not like voting has been some sort of, you know, core part of the existence of a white person in any country.
And these are problems that have been solved in the past anyway.
But if, I mean, and they're the ones who get to decide who gets to vote.
White men have been able to vote for a long time.
And even after women were given suffrage, black and brown women couldn't vote until the Civil Rights Act was passed in 1964.
So anyway, continue.
I appreciate that.
But again, we're not talking thousands of years.
Well, even hundreds of years of history.
But I mean, obviously, I agree that it shouldn't have been so much later, but it's something that was solved, what, 50, 60 years ago now.
So it's something to talk about.
But okay, so the idea of like voter suppression by paying people off.
I mean, I haven't got any evidence of this.
So we'll just take it as red for the hypothetical of the conversation.
What exactly can people do about that?
I mean, I suppose that you could criminalize it, but if people are willing to take the money and not say anything.
No, no, no.
It's not.
That's just one example.
I mean, districts are drawn to gerrymandering, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I mean, exactly.
I mean, there's just like a whole host of things that happen.
People are given, like, it's, it's, seriously, just go do a Google search on what happened in Georgia with Stacey Abrams.
There's just so much out there.
I'm not going to, it's, it's all.
Okay, I'm not familiar with the case.
Yeah, I'm not also here to argue about that.
So, so here's one thing, like back to money and politics.
I feel like people have been very intellectually dishonest about that.
Everyone keeps blaming Citizens United, which is a horrible decision in this country, which essentially lets companies, you know, dump as much money as they want.
Here's one way around it.
Stop taking the money, right?
Like, like there's to stop.
And like these women, again, who recently come into Congress have shown that you can actually do that.
You can stop taking the money and actually win in different ways.
I think that gets us pretty far.
Like once you- I completely agree with you on that.
Russia owns America.
Russia owns the country.
I don't agree that it does.
Well, I think that we'll all find out pretty quickly here how that is actually the case.
I suppose we will.
Okay, so I'll move on to the next tweet that I'd like to talk about, that's right.
So you tweeted out a few days ago, the worst thing you can call a white person is white person.
Can you explain what you mean by that, please?
Sure.
If you refer to white people as white people, you yourself said it.
I'm demonizing white people.
I mean, like, it's, it's white people get so upset when you call them white.
Yeah.
And black people have been called black their whole lives.
I've been called brown.
I've been called Pocky.
I've been called Indian.
I've been called this.
I'm used to it.
Like, that's what I am.
Right.
So in white people have never, it's only again recently where by and large lots of people are referring to white people as what they are, white people, and it makes them go crazy.
Okay, but I mean, can you not see that you're, you know, the two wrongs don't make a right argument there?
I'm very happy to be called brown.
I am brown.
This whole notion of colorblind society is racist.
It's we are, how can you be colorblind?
Like, it doesn't make sense.
Well, it just doesn't factor into my decision when I'm making a judgment about someone.
It does, though.
Like, that's what I'm talking about.
White fragility.
Because it's institutional.
This is how we've all been married.
We've been marinating in race from the beginning of time.
We've been marinating in sexism since the beginning of time.
By saying you don't see color is like saying you don't see gender.
It doesn't even matter.
I didn't say I don't see color, and I didn't say I don't see gender, but I just don't make decisions based on those criteria usually.
Unless, I mean, I suppose if I was making a film about Shakazulu or something, I probably would because it'd be a rational consideration for the context of the movie or something.
Or if I was choosing a wife, then yeah, I'd probably discriminate on gender.
But like, outside of those contexts, in everyday life, what reason would I have to do that?
Do you find the term white people to be offensive?
Well, I find it to be descriptive.
That's not what I do.
I said, do you find it offensive?
Yeah, well, that's the thing.
I don't find it offensive in a context of describing statistics or something like that.
Or even, I mean, I wouldn't, I think it's inaccurate at the very best.
I don't think that you can.
Sorry, wait.
Are you white?
And are you a person?
Well, I don't really consider myself to be white as a part of an identity, no.
No, but are you black?
No, descriptively, my skin is white, yeah.
But it's not an identity that I would hold, that I would project out into the world.
But that's not even the point.
The point is for ages and ages, I've always, I've always been described as Indian or brown.
Always.
My Indian friend, my Indian colleague.
What's your favorite Indian restaurant?
I'm fine with that because I'm Indian.
And if people describe me as English, then I'd be fine with being described as English.
But I'm described as brown and I identify as brown because I am brown.
And there's a lot of political, social, and cultural stuff around that.
To not be able, you know why white people take offense with white?
Because then they feel like they're complicit in white supremacy.
I mean, it's all a very easy way of letting yourselves off the hook of oppression.
Just like you're a man.
You're a man.
I'm definitely oppressing women then, aren't I?
You are institutional.
I'm not part of an institution, though.
You're part of the white male institution.
I mean, I don't know why this is so confusing.
Well, I don't believe there is an institution called white male.
That's the difference.
I don't think that, I mean, for example, my country is currently being run by women.
So.
Okay.
Well, we've got a Scottish chance to lose a woman.
No, we had a black president, so there's no more race.
Prime Minister who's a woman.
Leader of the Welsh Assembly is a woman.
So, I mean, like, the highest, and the queen is a woman, obviously.
So, and it's, and Europe is basically ruled by women.
So, I, I'm, I'm, I don't feel like I have any institutional power as a white man.
I mean, I'm, I'm, obviously, this is the greatest quote of all time.
I don't feel like I have institutional power as a white man.
Okay.
Well, all the institutions seem to be ruled over by women.
So, okay.
So does this make me oppressed?
Oh, my God.
I can't even answer that.
I mean, seriously, it's like literally what you said is like, I have a woman friend, so I'm not sexist.
We had a black president, so America is post-race.
I mean, it doesn't even, you know, have it.
Well, no, I'm not saying America is post-race.
America is very clearly not post-race.
But I mean, I'm just trying to understand the logic that you're using because if like because I don't agree with the definitions you're using at all.
Like, I don't agree that racism is a system of institutional structures that are based on, I guess you would just tell me, tell me what you believe.
Okay, let me.
So I think that the world is a lot more complicated than what I consider to be a very low resolution description at saying it's about racial and gendered and presumably heteronormative, heterosexual, heteronormative, all these sort of other categories.
But I don't believe it's just power dynamics between groups.
I think the groups are a lot more porous than people realize.
And there's a lot more like interaction between the individuals that make up these groups.
And there are many other factors beyond race and gender and things that are being categorized by intersectionality that affect the ends and the achievements of positions and people in hierarchies.
I don't think it's just as simple as saying it's about race.
Because if it is, then, I mean, you're kind of forced to concede that Britain is a country that is run by women, and therefore I, as a white man, or just a man, I'm structurally disadvantaged by that.
But the thing is, I mean, there is an argument to be made for that, you know, and you'd have to argue the same thing for like white people in South Africa.
They're currently being oppressed by the black majority.
So, I mean, I'm not saying that these things can't be true, but I mean, in fact, I think they have to be true by your logic.
But again, I think that's a low-resolution way of looking at the world.
And I don't think that most people follow that.
I think most people have a much more individualistic perspective.
But as soon as I say that, I get the feeling I'm going to be told that that's white supremacy.
I think you saying it's more complicated is problematic.
And I think the fact that we can't even agree on the fundamental of racial genocide and the enslavement of Africans.
You said that you and I disagree on the founding of the United States.
No, no, no.
I think, like I said, I agree that there was definitely in later stages a racial genocide, without a doubt, right?
But I don't think it was initially conceived that way.
Racial genocide, enslavement of black people, Chinese exclusionary act.
Okay, hang on, let's go one at a time because I agree with the enslavement of black people, but that's not to say that black people weren't also complicit.
And that's my point.
Black people were complicit in their own enslavement.
Some of them were, yeah.
That is crazy.
I can't even.
Hang on, hang on.
Let me explain.
Let me explain, right?
Because I think you're mischaracterizing me there, right?
I don't think that just black people were enslaved.
It wasn't all black people.
It was some black people.
And there were some white people who were in conditions that you could consider slavery too.
I cannot even continue this conversation.
I really can't.
Like, if we can't agree on that, then there's really nothing else to discuss.
Seriously.
Okay.
Okay.
Well, I mean, if you want to end the conversation, I'm happy to do that.
But I don't think that I don't think you've refuted what I've said there.
I remember hearing that the first black slave in America was owned by a black man.
I don't know whether that's true.
I'd have to go and check.
Responsible for slavery.
Slavery, no black people were complicit in their own enslavement.
I think that this is crazy and that is an insult.
I'm not saying their own enslavement.
Just like Kanye West saying that it's insane.
I know you think that that was an interesting statement he made.
It's literally insane.
It's super racist.
And I really can't continue this conversation.
Okay, but I don't think it's their own enslavement.
I think it's the enslavement of other people who are also black.
White people enslaved black people in this country.
If we cannot, if we cannot, that is a true statement.
That is a true statement.
Period.
I'm not like, I'm not, there's nothing else about slavery that I want to say beyond that, but there's a direct link between that and police brutality.
Okay.
I agree that there could be.
I agree that there could be.
And I agree with you that the statement, the statement that white people enslaved black people, that's a true statement, but it's also a very low resolute.
I haven't got a better phrase for it.
Why don't you tick off every black person in this country who, I'm not familiar with this.
Why don't you tick off every black person in this country who enslaved black people?
Why don't you set why don't we tick off you clearly know more about this than I do.
So why don't you tell me about his you have Google.
I mean how who were they?
I'd love to know more about this.
I can send you something afterwards.
Please do.
But it's like those are white people were not behind the enslavement of black people.
No, no, they certainly were.
They certainly were.
They certainly were.
Provisionist trades like saying the Holocaust didn't.
No, I obviously think the Holocaust happened, but they certainly were partially responsible, but it wasn't.
No, not partially.
Okay, I actually had to go.
Bye-bye.
Okay.
Sorry.
Okay, well, I'm pretty sure I was correct there.
So I'll Google what I was just saying and put it in the description.
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