Oct. 31, 2014 - Sargon of Akkad - Carl Benjamin
14:38
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| So tell me, we'll start with the real number of this, I guess, and obviously people have expressed various views about the coverage of Gamergate. | |
| what do you feel personally is missing um from the reporting at the moment i think the fundamental issue is that you haven't i'll only speak to your article dave because it's um most relevant to you obviously um But I noticed you didn't feature any of the journalists who were implicated in the corruption scandal in your article or in your report of it. | |
| Can I ask why that is? | |
| Sure, okay. | |
| My article plainly was about Zoe and her experiences. | |
| It was very much a personal piece about how she has been affected by this, hence the focus on that. | |
| Do you not think that that might be a bit misleading for people, though, given her vehemently anti-Gamergate stance? | |
| Well, explain why you think that is. | |
| Well, because she goes out of her way to denounce Gamergate as something that harasses people, and yet I've never actually seen any proof of any of this harassment coming from members of Gamergate. | |
| Okay, I mean, that's obviously how you'd see it. | |
| I mean, I guess the issue, and the reason why we wanted to interview Zoe is, of course, that she felt like abuse from wherever it came from, and she felt it was from that direction, made her feel unsafe. | |
| I mean, is that not a relevant concern? | |
| Well, not to me, I'm afraid. | |
| I'm not anything to do with Zoe Quinn. | |
| I don't speak to Zoe Quinn. | |
| I've never threatened Zoe Quinn. | |
| But I am a person who's very concerned and active within hashtag Gamergate because I'm concerned about ethics and journalism and the culture of corruption that is pervasive within gaming journalism as it stands now. | |
| And for some reason, you have Zoe Quinn on denouncing Gamergates, even though there's no proof that she's been harassed by anyone from Gamergate itself. | |
| The same with Anita Sarkisian and Brianna Wu. | |
| These appear to be personal attacks by individuals, and they're not against journalists. | |
| So how could they be connected to Gamergate? | |
| Do you feel though, even regardless of the source in that case, that the comments that these women received, would you condemn comments of that nature at all? | |
| What kind of ridiculous question is that, Dave? | |
| I'm sorry, but obviously, everyone condemns harassment. | |
| Nobody is in favour of harassment. | |
| There is an article here titled, While the Media Slanders Gamers as Terrorists, Gamergate is Hunting Trolls and Abusers. | |
| And it features someone called Margaret Gell, G-E-L, who runs something called the Gamergate Harassment Patrol on Twitter, where they specifically ask people to show them instances of harassment that may have been coming from GameGate so they can report the accounts. | |
| Were you aware of that? | |
| I've seen various pieces of coverage on either side. | |
| I mean, I guess isn't the overall point here that here we have a young woman who has been involved in this and she didn't wish to, she wasn't hoping for this to happen to her life and her career. | |
| And here in an article, what she was doing was expressing a concern about some of the nature of attacks surrounding the issue. | |
| I'm sorry, I don't agree with what you've said there. | |
| What she's done is specifically slandered a consumer revolt against the concept of corrupt and unethical journalism that she has had a part in. | |
| She is one of the reasons that there is a consumer revolt about corrupt journalism because she was having affairs with those journalists that we are currently angry about. | |
| And I don't know why you wouldn't speak to them instead if you want to talk about Gamergate. | |
| Why would you have someone on who just roundly denounces it without any opposing view other than someone who has since distanced themselves, even though they did say Gamergate is a consumer revolt against unethical journalism? | |
| You haven't asked a journalist. | |
| You've asked someone who's implicated in the corruption and they've said it's actually terrible. | |
| I think that I'm being, you know, she may well have been personally attacked, but it's nothing to do with Gamergate. | |
| Do you see what I'm saying? | |
| The issue you've not, surely, that here's a, like I say, a young woman who felt that this online abuse was causing her to feel this way. | |
| And I think she should contact the FBI. | |
| I think that anyone in Gamergate strongly denounces that sort of thing, and it's ridiculous that we have to make that a clear position. | |
| But please contact the authorities. | |
| I would like this person found because I do not want to talk about Zoe Quinn. | |
| I want to talk about corruption in journalism. | |
| Do you feel the game game movement has been tainted twice, probably, whether you believe or not? | |
| I think that the media is desperately trying to craft that narrative. | |
| But Gamergate has literally done everything it can possibly do. | |
| And like I asked earlier, what proof do you even have that Gamergate is related to the harassment? | |
| These are obviously women that are in the game industry that technology talk about these issues. | |
| I guess whether the hashtag Gamergate is attached to them in the middle of the year. | |
| Well, can I actually interrupt you though? | |
| Sorry, but it's not. | |
| I haven't seen any threats against Zoe Quinn, and I have looked hard. | |
| So I don't know where they're coming from. | |
| But the threats against Anita Sarkeesian were simply to say that there was going to be a deadly mass shooting because of her feminism. | |
| And the Utah police said that this was not a credible threat. | |
| And the threats against Brianna Wu were made from an account called Death to Brianna. | |
| And it goes on to say how she made a game that nobody liked and nobody likes her and he doesn't like feminists. | |
| At no point do either of these threats, these are the two predominant threats that I think everyone's seen. | |
| At no point do they mention hashtag Gamergate or journalistic ethics. | |
| And they're not aimed at journalists. | |
| So how can you suggest that they're connected to Gamergate? | |
| Can I just interject here? | |
| I mean, in terms of recording something that we can broadcast here, I mean, those are all good points that you make there about what you say that the nature of the movement is really about. | |
| So can we make those points? | |
| Dave asked you the question again. | |
| And then you can clarify. | |
| And so it sounds like you're saying that you feel like the movement has been hijacked by a few people for their own purposes, whatever they may be, distracting attention away from the problems that you say there are ethical corruption now. | |
| That's absolutely correct. | |
| So why don't we go back and Dave can ask a question. | |
| So what do you think is the true nature of the Gamergate movement and how has that failed to come across or has been twisted by the activities of a few? | |
| So what do you tell us about that, Dave? | |
| Okay, yeah, we'll just ask you that again. | |
| So what do you feel is the actual nature of the Gamergate movement and what has happened to derail that message coming across? | |
| Right. | |
| The Gamergate movement is a consumer revolt that's been sparked in a sort of World War I-esque style fashion by Zoe Quinn and her implication in this corruption scandal. | |
| It's almost grown beyond that now because the gaming press seems to be shockingly pro-corruption and has roundly denounced Gamergate. | |
| And Gamergate's only goal really is to excise this corruption from the video game industry. | |
| That's really all it's trying to do. | |
| And it does seem to be somewhat co-opted by these three ladies who have had regrettable threats made against them, but these threats have not been proven to come from Gamergate or even be credible by the Utah police. | |
| And so it's hard not to see them as people who are trying to hijack Gamergate, especially as one of them is implicated in this scandal. | |
| Would you, if you were in either Zoe or Browna's or Anita's position, and you were receiving threats of that nature, would you find expressing? | |
| I think I'd do what the FBI suggested. | |
| What they suggest is that you do not publicize threats against you. | |
| Actually, one other thing which was which you said earlier, sorry to interrupt again, but actually I think it'd be very useful if Dave asked you that question and you gave the response which you gave before, which was when Dave asked you would you condemn these threats and you said, of course, any thinking person would condemn those threats directly. | |
| So assuming I've understood your position correctly there. | |
| Yeah, you have, yeah. | |
| I think off the back of the last question, if Gaming 8 has been hijacked by a few rogue governments, then do you condemn them? | |
| So let's try to do this in a way that will work for honesty. | |
| Soundbite. | |
| Okay, so let's just go over that again. | |
| So given that there are elements up here that have been hijacked in this way around the Gamergate movement, do you condemn what's happened? | |
| Do you condemn some of those comments that have been made? | |
| Of course. | |
| Nobody should even be asked if they condemn them because it's such a ludicrous situation at this point. | |
| These threats have been no way proven to have come from Gamergate. | |
| Gamergate is not responsible for them. | |
| And people like Margaret Jell, who specifically run something called the Gamergate Harassment Patrol, to specifically police the movement because we do not want to be misrepresented in this way by the media or the people who are being featured in the media. | |
| This is highly unfair to people in Gamergate. | |
| It's incredibly one-sided. | |
| I think I'd personally rather keep off Margaret Jell because I don't then have to want to go to Margaret Jell to get her response. | |
| You see what I mean? | |
| It just kind of carries on and on. | |
| But I think if you're having to make that condemnation that you have done, then we'll probably leave it there. | |
| I think it's important to mention the Gamergate Harassment Patrol. | |
| Yeah. | |
| Dave, do you want to just repeat that question or we'll do that once more? | |
| So, and specifically the dimension of the. | |
| I'll specifically leave the name out if you'd like. | |
| Yeah, okay, yeah, alright, yeah, that'd be helpful. | |
| So, Dave, the question is: if Gamergate has been hijacked by a rogue element, do you condemn the threat still made? | |
| Okay, so I'm still relevant, so we're in real time. | |
| So, if Gamergate has been hijacked by these rogue elements, do you condemn what some of those comments are? | |
| Gamergate hasn't been hijacked by rogue elements. | |
| There is no connection between any of these threats and Gamergate in any way. | |
| They all seem to be direct personal attacks against the game developers and video makers themselves. | |
| It's nothing to do with journalism, but of course, everyone condemns these attacks. | |
| The GameGate Harassment Patrol actually is a sub-movement within Gamergate that's dedicated to rooting out and reporting accounts that send threatening tweets and anything else of that nature. | |
| Okay, I think just grab one more. | |
| Sorry, Sarah, keep you on too much. | |
| Not a problem so long. | |
| Not a problem. | |
| Can I just ask, are you disappointed that the debate has gone this way? | |
| Because it does seem that a lot of energy is being spent in dealing with this issue and not the issue that you say is at the forefront of what this is all about. | |
| Does that disappoint you? | |
| It does immensely. | |
| I think it disappoints everyone. | |
| That's the problem. | |
| Zoe Quinn, Brianna Wu, Anita Sarkeesian, they are not games journalists. | |
| They are not part of the games journalist media. | |
| They are a smokescreen, I'm afraid. | |
| I'm dreadfully sorry that they feel this way and the things that have happened to them have happened, but they should really contact the authorities. | |
| And I hope they have. | |
| And I fully support any investigation into whoever is sending these threats. | |
| But they're nothing to do with Gamergate. | |
| They're a completely separate issue that's being conflated with Gamergate's primary directive. | |
| Sorry, wrong way to phrase that. | |
| Primary goal of... | |
| Sorry, I've kind of lost my train of thought there. | |
| You can take it from the top again, if you want to. | |
| Yeah, they're entirely separate, and they're being conflated with Gamergate's primary goal of cleaning up corrupt game journalism. | |
| I can edit that together right now. | |
| Brilliant. | |
| Thank you. | |
| Good, okay. | |
| I think we're done, aren't we? | |
| I think Sarah, is there anything else you'd like to add briefly, Sarah? | |
| I'd really, really like to thank you for letting me talk to you. | |
| You would be surprised how few mainstream media outlets have any interest in hearing a balanced view of events or even talking to anyone from Gamergate. | |
| They seem to be prepared to completely swallow the propaganda they're fed. | |
| And I think that maybe the anti-Gamergate movement has been kind of co-opted by these figures, if anyone's been co-opted. | |
| I simply can't understand why, when talking about Gamergate, Zoe Quinn, Brianna Wu, or Anis Sarkeesian are ever featured in any way. | |
| You would probably want to speak to the journalists that are implicated in the scandal around them. | |
| Yeah, I mean, I think from our point of view, it might not be easy to appreciate, but it is actually quite hard to find people willing to to to talk or at least, you know, |
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