Sargon of Akkad - Carl Benjamin - A Conversation with Davis Aurini

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Sept. 20, 2014 - Sargon of Akkad - Carl Benjamin

03:15:13

A Conversation with Davis Aurini

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	Hello everyone, I'm having a conversation with Davis Arini.
	You may know him from doing the Sarkeesian Effect documentary, which I will put a link to in the description after this.
	But you can probably also find by the link that's in the description to his channel, which you should check out.
	And possibly from the legendary video of him playing Kane from Command and Conquer, which I totally recommend.
	That was a brilliant video.
	Actually, a lot of work, getting the little animated thing in the upper right-hand corner.
	That was about two hours of just, like, I wasn't properly animating, you understand.
	I'm not an animator.
	What I was doing was creating a bunch of sill images and putting them in a row, which I guess is animating.
	But I wasn't using Flash or anything cool like that.
	Honestly, it came across that I really could tell that a lot of work had gone into that.
	It was a really great recreation.
	It really was.
	Hey, it was fun.
	I wanted to show people, this was when I was doing the getting the votes to do the short film Lust in the Time of Heartache.
	I wanted to show people that even though my YouTube videos are really basic, it's really just a camera, a little bit of color balancing, some little bit of set design, a little bit of, like, I can do more than that.
	You know, like, these videos do not tax me to make.
	You know, I spend 20 minutes in the editing booth.
	The thing is, I think that's actually a really good format for what you do, because you're talking ideas, and when you're talking ideas you really don't want, well I mean at least I personally wouldn't want flashy gimmicks and things moving around on the screen that are going to distract the viewer from what you're actually trying to say.
	You know, that's good.
	That's for the peasants, the people who can't really think and can't focus for more than 10 minutes.
	You know what I mean?
	It's a fine balance that you have to find.
	And now, I spoke to you before the show.
	I've been kind of in the back of my head thinking about ways that I can improve my channel because quite frankly, the amount of flack that Jordan and I are taking for even attempting this documentary, it's strategically changing my position in life.
	It's hard enough trying to get a job at a corporation if you've ever written anything about feminism.
	When you have media comparing you to ISIS, it's yeah, you're dead.
	So it's changed.
	It's changed a lot of what my direction is going to be.
	So I'm re-evaluating stuff, trying to come up with ways that I can improve my channel with a little bit of polish, but not unnecessary flash, if that makes sense.
	No, no, I think that's a perfectly reasonable way of putting it.
	Perfectly reasonable.
	So yeah, so how are things going with the Sarkeesian effect at the moment then?
	Well, at this point, now, see, our initial goal was $15,000.
	And let me tell you, making movies is expensive.
	It is really, really expensive.
	And at this point, we are just nosing up on the $6,000.
	It's decent.
	And we've been computing the numbers.
	We've been looking at the hotels, flights, the fact that we have to pay rent and our bodies require food, that stuff.
	And this is the metaphor that I like to use.
	It's like we're driving down the highway and we're pretty sure there's a gas station before we run out of gas on all of this.
	Yeah, I can feel you there.
	I'm working on Necromancer still.
	And yeah, I know exactly how you feel.
	This film is the right thing to do.
	I don't know who said this, but it was a mathematician talking about how when he saw a mathematical proof that was correct, he could just tell.
	Before he checked it, he could tell this is the correct proof because it's beautiful.
	And when Jordan brought up this idea to me, you know, what, two or three months ago, it just snapped in my head that, yes, this is the right thing to do.
	You know, like we've been making, everybody's been making these videos criticizing Anita's arguments, and nobody cares.
	She's still getting hired at EA.
	Nobody cares what anybody does on the internet.
	Documentary, this is a game changer.
	I am sick of these fallacious arguments being presented as if they're valid.
	And this is how we change things.
	And even right now, it's going to be shoestring.
	It's going to be us calling in favors.
	It's going to be difficult.
	We're going to have to do magic with nothing.
	But I've done magic with nothing before, and it's the right thing to do.
	Like, I know it's the right direction to go.
	So, obviously, if we can get more funding, that is awesome.
	But the other thing, too, is once we do this, once we get the initial steps, we can show people what we're doing.
	Hopefully, we can overcome a lot of the skepticism that we're running into with people.
	Okay, that's, yeah, I mean, I take it you guys are doing this as a full-time job at the moment then.
	Pretty much, it will be, like, to do something like this, it does have to be a full-time commitment.
	It's, like, I'm going to be in the States for about three or four weeks.
	I forget.
	Jordan's doing most of the scheduling.
	Thank God I'm terrible at scheduling.
	But I'm going to be in the States for three weeks.
	I'm going to spend a week sleeping on his sofa.
	That sort of stuff.
	So it is going, like, there's other stuff I'm doing at the same time, but all of that's going on the back burner.
	Right, okay.
	That's good to hear.
	Yeah, actually, you know, there's a great question in the comments section that I'd like to address right off the bat.
	It's by Schaeferius.
	How is this a game changer?
	And that is such a, that is the perfect question because, you know, Schaeferius, Sargon, we are reasonable people.
	If you provide us information and it's well-written or well-spoken, you know, it has a modicum of like it's smooth going down.
	We will accept that information.
	We will embrace it.
	You know, if I present you a logical argument demonstrating that Anita's arguments are garbage, you'll say, oh, well, that's a really good point.
	Most people don't work that way.
	Yeah, I think it's, I mean, it's almost just the internal consistency of the argument.
	You know, if it doesn't contradict itself and it doesn't make any unreasonable assumptions, then, you know, there's no reason that you wouldn't accept this argument on the face of things.
	And it's, you know, like anything else, it's completely subject to reinterpretation or reanalysis later.
	You know, if the facts change, you change the argument, obviously.
	But if you're presenting an argument that's not got a problem to it and the facts don't appear like they're going to change overnight, then of course, you know, I think any reasonable person would accept that as a point of view.
	And I think you're absolutely right that these people don't.
	They're not interested in doing that at all.
	Well, and it's not just the prominent social justice warriors that we're talking about.
	We're talking about people in general.
	Was it Thomas Jefferson that talked about the natural aristocracy?
	I'm actually not sure.
	I think I'm getting it wrong, and I apologize.
	Normally I like to look stuff up before I quote people, but here's the thing.
	The rational people, first of all, it's people that really are committed to truth, looking into things, they are a minority.
	Second of all, most people don't have the time to look into this.
	Most people either don't play games or they only play games part-time or whatever.
	And showing them the larger picture of all of this is very difficult.
	And so a YouTube video, that will convince thinking people.
	It's not going to show up on Wikipedia, however.
	The news media will dismiss.
	Right now, they are dismissing all criticism of Anita primarily because it's just on the internet.
	You know, the Supreme Court in the U.S. has recognized bloggers as journalists, but the media hasn't.
	Bloggers are a direct threat to the media.
	Why would they?
	That's the last thing they'd want to do.
	Well, exactly.
	So right now, there's no official criticism of Anita Sarkeesian.
	Nobody, nobody who matters has criticized her.
	But a documentary, even though, you know, we're going to have an hour and a half.
	Do you think we're going to be able to include the same depth of analysis on individual arguments as Thunderfoot with his hours and hours of videos that he's put together?
	Like, we're going to interview him.
	Him speaking will make up maybe 10 minutes of the documentary.
	He has a lot to say, and we're going to cram it into 10 minutes.
	No, this is not going to be as intellectually deep.
	But because it's a documentary, all of a sudden it's real.
	This is why these people were flipping out.
	I've made videos criticizing Anita Sarkeesian before.
	There weren't emails to the company I was working for trying to get me fired.
	There weren't people decrying me as a member of ISIS for making a YouTube video.
	All of a sudden, why was the pose?
	Just to ask that, so has the company you work for been sent emails as a personal attack against you?
	I specifically recused myself from the company before starting this.
	I finished off the projects I was working on and said that, listen, this is dangerous territory.
	I don't want you guys to be involved in this.
	I know I'm going to get a lot of personal attacks, so I'm recusing myself.
	But yeah, despite that, there have been emails.
	And there's a lot of other stuff as well.
	I'm not going to go into details, because a lot of it is people who are afraid.
	You know, it's, I can't think of any specific examples, because I don't watch sports, but there's always some sports commentator that has hours and hours and hours of commentary, and then one day he says something that they call offensive.
	Yeah.
	and he gets fired from his job.
	That's not because his bosses are evil, it's because they're afraid.
	And there are people that are afraid, and that's affected me in my personal life, but I don't want to tell those stories because the people that let me down are not evil.
	They are afraid.
	They're not villains.
	I think that's a very mature way of looking at it as well, because I think it's true.
	I mean, and the thing is, I can understand why some people do become more suspicious of them because the result to the person is evil.
	You know, the other person should show a great strength of character and say, look, you know, that's, you know, I need to investigate this.
	And, you know, they should take it responsibly.
	And so I think it's easy for it to look like it's an act of evil, you know, like it's done with malice.
	Whereas I think you're absolutely right.
	I think it is all just coming from a place of fear.
	You know what?
	You shouldn't judge another person's life.
	Like, if they go and screw you over, then, you know, go enact the law.
	Go execute justice.
	But, you know, you don't know what somebody else is going through.
	Somebody else has a family to feed.
	Whatever.
	Somebody else just had their mother just died, and they're not up to the emotional stress of receiving this sort of bullying right now.
	Yeah, like maybe you don't trust them as much in the future, but you shouldn't be.
	The social justice warriors are the ones that play either you're with me or you're against me.
	I don't play that game.
	It's absolutely absolutist.
	I'm just going to plug some headphones in because I think there's a bit of an echo coming back that's causing it to flip the pictures.
	I thought it was almost fixed, but it doesn't seem to be.
	Two seconds.
	Sorry about that.
	I'll do the same on my end.
	And this will probably completely screw up the call, and then we'll have to restart it or something.
	Probably.
	Testing, testing.
	Okay, I think I can hear you.
	Can you hear me?
	I can hear you, and there is no echo.
	Awesome.
	Fantastic.
	Right.
	Hopefully that's better for everyone.
	You bunch of winging gits.
	Right, okay.
	So, right.
	So, what is your take on Gamergate generally?
	Have you been following it, or how much have you been following it?
	Now, I never, I do not want to claim to be an expert simply because there is so much information coming out of Gamergate.
	And you know what?
	Like Kotaku, I spotted them as a bunch of Marxist, social justice warrior, non-video game planing, playing lies and garbage like a year ago.
	And I generally try and avoid that sort of toxicity in my life and read something positive.
	So, for instance, I do not know the people that write for Kotaku because I read them like a year or two ago and it was garbage.
	So it's like, eh, done with it.
	I don't need to read this.
	I'm with you.
	As soon as I realized they had a tag called feminism, I was done.
	You know, just no.
	There's absolutely no reason that they need that.
	So there, for me, that was the clincher.
	Now, that said, I tend to, I frequently tend to understate my expertise on things because I'm aware of how much I don't know.
	I have been keeping very close caps on Gamergate.
	I'm planning to actually write an article for people that haven't been about what's going on with Gamergate.
	I do not know all the details, and there's a decent chance I'll get something mixed up.
	Well, that's fine.
	How about do you want to just tell us a few of the details you do know?
	I mean, because like you said, one of the problems, and this is something I'm having a trouble with, is there is so much going on.
	And there are so many different people, different groups, who really don't have much intersection.
	They don't really interact much.
	And then now everyone is having to deal with everyone else.
	Because suddenly we all find ourselves on the same.
	I suppose it's an ideological side of this.
	I would say it's an anti-we're anti-ideological side.
	Well, absolutely.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	The story of Gamergate, from my view, is that for a long time now, for a couple of years, there's been this progressive infiltration of tech and video game circles by people that are ideological flag waivers.
	If I could just inject there, I wouldn't just say it's tech and gaming.
	I would say it's almost every aspect of society.
	Oh, this is just the latest.
	Progressive stack destroying academia and censoring research.
	This is the same thing, except they won that battle.
	Yeah, that's actually something I'm going to be doing quite a large video on because I've been doing a lot of research into this, and my God, it's scary.
	The peers, their peers are just like, what are you talking about?
	All of this is faulty.
	This doesn't make sense.
	And they're constantly justifying themselves to their peers.
	And this is from their own blogs and forum posts and stuff like that.
	And when you can find quotes of people talking about organizing to take over academia and push a specific ideology, that's not a conspiracy theory.
	Okay, when you can show they mentored these people who became leaders in the anti-sex feminist movement in the 70s.
	You know, that's not a conspiracy.
	But because they own academia, academia doesn't talk about it.
	Yeah.
	So yeah, no, no, you're right.
	You're absolutely right.
	And the thing is, we actually have evidence of conspiratorial actions.
	You know, we actually have hard evidence of this sort of thing.
	And the thing is, I don't even know if it's reasonable to call this a conspiracy anymore because it's more a giant, it's more the culture.
	It's just the ideology.
	As soon as they say to each other, oh, I'm a progressive, yeah, I'm a progressive too.
	You can see they just walk in lockstep.
	It's like they've all trained to goose step somehow in their minds.
	And now, as soon as you mention, and then they're on the same wavelength, they know exactly what they're both fighting for, and they know that the people who aren't fighting for that same thing are the enemy.
	It's so obvious.
	And so it's no surprise that they would collude so intensely.
	It's frightening.
	And the reason Gamergate matters, to me, the reason it matters so much to me is because the tech and video game circles are new.
	And for a long time, they were left alone because you needed to actually do math to get involved in this.
	And these people hate doing math.
	They hate work of any kind, really.
	So it was left alone.
	It was organic.
	It was positive, logical, saying, like, there wasn't any substantial oppression of women.
	And then they realized this, and now they're trying to infiltrate.
	But the people doing it are very incompetent.
	And so what we saw with the Zoe Quinn thing, this is a chink in their armor.
	I don't care about Zoe Quinn.
	She's such a non-story.
	And, you know, for the most part, so is Sarkeesian.
	She's just this manipulative woman trying to scam money by pretending that she's a feminist.
	Trying?
	Trying?
	She's the most successful scam artist in gaming.
	Trying bloody hell.
	She is the queen of scam artists.
	And they are never going to admit that she scammed them.
	They can't.
	And all she'll do is just keep feeding them the bollocks they want to hear, and they will just throw money at her.
	They will just throw it.
	I wish I could do what she did.
	I'd be doing so well.
	Well, I really imagine like if feminist frequency hadn't taken off, and this is completely speculative thinking, but like this is this has happened before with other people.
	Internet aristocrat has covered some of this, where these people will throw up Kickstarter after Kickstarter after Kickstarter, playing some sort of victim angle until one gets popular and they make a ton of money off of people that over some manufactured nonsense.
	Yep.
	Feel sorry for this person, give them money, and don't ask questions.
	But, you know, this is something that's been going on for a while.
	And everybody has kind of been noticing, you know, that Adria Richards, or is it Adrian Richards?
	I forget.
	I think it's Adria Richards, the Donglegate one.
	Yeah.
	It's, you know, black women saw this and said, well, that doesn't really stand for me.
	You know, and guys saw this and said, like, I'm sick of women like that turning my office place into a hostile environment.
	And everybody, like, there's this growing sense that something was wrong.
	And the Zoe Quinn thing, it's just what tipped the scales.
	The extent of her hypocrisy, the lascivious nature of the scandal, and absolute incredible amounts of censorship.
	Like, we all kind of suspected there was some conspiratorial censorship.
	But when even 4chan is shutting down threads, you know, every magazine, Reddit, and 4chan is shut down.
	And the mainstream media they're getting access to.
	This is what I've actually long said about Zoe.
	It's not that she's special.
	It's just that every single problem that is evident in these people is manifested in her.
	Exactly.
	The morality, the censorship, and the trigger for all of them to react as we knew they would when this happened.
	You know, when a situation like this occurred, everyone could have predicted how they'd react.
	I mean, maybe not to the extent they'd react.
	I never thought.
	I was just unbelievably shocked when 10 articles on the same day came out decrying the word gamer.
	I was just like, you guys have lost.
	That is the moment when they lost this.
	There is no coming back from that.
	You have just personally said, well, we walk out of gaming.
	We're not going to be part of gaming anymore.
	Why the hell would anyone pay attention to now?
	That's insane.
	And game journal pros.
	I would love to look through their archives and see if myself and Jordan get mentioned.
	Because we're not.
	I think we have close to 20,000 subscribers between the two of us, something like that.
	We're not complete nobodies, but we're not the most popular guys on the internet.
	And yet, two days after we announced this thing, several publications are decrying us as racist, homophobic, sexist, misogynist, ISIS supporters.
	Are you telling me there wasn't a conspiracy amongst journalists to attack us in this vicious manner?
	Am I allowed to think there's a conspiracy at this point?
	Or is that tinfoil hat?
	Absolutely.
	I mean, we have evidence, solid evidence of conspiracies amongst their group.
	More than one, incidentally.
	But only one really technically counts as a conspiracy because it was done in secret.
	But the other one, the playful is political, that transcript, is it's what I picture the Americans expected to find communists doing in the 50s and 60s.
	These smoky room roundtables where they're sat there going, how can we advance the agenda, comrade?
	And it literally read like that.
	And I was just like, right, the only reason this technically wouldn't be a conspiracy is because technically this is public knowledge.
	I mean, they did advertise this.
	I mean, the transcript, I think, in fact, no, I know they tweeted.
	Adrian Shaw tweeted the transcript about a month before Gamergate really kicked off, or a few weeks before Gamergate really kicked off.
	And it was deleted at some point, presumably when Gamergate were kicked off, which is presumably why someone was so excited that they managed to get a copy of it.
	And they sent it to me.
	And they're literally colluding to advance the cause and talking about how there is so much fear in the industry they should be more afraid.
	And they're not.
	And they're trying to subvert the peer-review process and stuff like that.
	And it's just like, Jesus, these people are insane.
	You know, you're asking why this doesn't, why something like that does, even though they're hiding in plain sight, why does nobody talk about this?
	And there's a great article I read on, like, good lord, Return of Kings.
	It's a website ostensibly about how to get laid.
	And yet you'll find some of the most piercing and honest journalism out there on that website.
	Anyway, it was an article saying, why is Michael Moore not making a documentary about what a terrible president Obama is?
	Like, Obama has completely undermined all the democratic principles he's supposed to do.
	And the reason is that with something like Bulling for Columbine, the entire American populace right through grade school has been prepared to see a documentary about banning guns.
	And so as soon as they watch, like they're primed for it.
	Whereas making a documentary about Obama, they are primed to see any criticism about Obama as you hate black people, you're a birther, you think he's a Muslim, so on, so on, so on.
	So we are primed to hear one narrative.
	So we're primed to hear the narrative about women being abused.
	But then when you point out, like, if you actually look at the statistics and you find that domestic violence is actually pretty reciprocal, it's about 50-50.
	Like, men and women hit one another in bad relationships.
	Interestingly, I think it's actually there was a Telegraph article that was done a while ago about this.
	I think 70% of spousal, of reciprocal violence is initiated by the woman.
	The article was titled Relationship Terrorists, because women provoke and they go out of the way to provoke, and they can often provoke with violence.
	And it's one of those things that the feminists could never admit because it fucks their narrative.
	You know, I wasn't going to bring that up, but yeah, it's, yes, and this is multiple studies have shown this.
	About 70% of domestic violence is initiated by women.
	Now, I'd also like to say I suspect that's because we have really screwed up domestic violence laws that don't really help actual victims of domestic violence.
	What they do is they empower the people that would manipulate through violence.
	The same way, like this latest thing Sarkeesian is on, believe all women.
	If you believe every single woman, like if she says that guy raped me and you believe her unequivocally, all you're doing is empowering the women that lie about being raped.
	Because, hey, women do bad stuff too.
	And so now, now everybody's going to doubt rape claims because the media won't doubt.
	Or won't not doubt, but like ask reasonable questions.
	Yeah, no, no, no.
	I really think that I totally agree that you're saying, and this is something I personally have said before as well.
	If, you know, feminists, listen, you keep saying women are people too.
	And it's like, that's great.
	I totally believe you.
	And that means they're just as capable as anyone else of being lying, deceptive, manipulative.
	You know, they can do all of these things.
	So, no, I'm not going to just believe you.
	I'm going to treat you as if a man was saying these things to me.
	And if a man was saying these things to me, I would be skeptical and then investigate.
	That's what these questions are.
	It's not fucking victim blaming, right?
	And you know what?
	Speaking of, we're talking a bit about the bit with Jordan.
	Jordan Owen was just doing the.
	Yeah, I wanted to talk about that, actually.
	Yeah.
	Two things that came up because I was taking notes during this bloody.
	No, absolutely.
	I can understand why you would.
	The first thing is he says it's one thing to be skeptical of religion because God doesn't have emotions.
	It's another thing to be skeptical of a woman.
	That's nonsense.
	God's got plenty of emotions.
	He's got plenty of rage.
	I love that.
	He says, I am the jealous God.
	He warned the entire generation of Israelites because they pissed him off.
	God is psychotic.
	The last person you want to piss off is God.
	But this is the thing is, I watched that.
	And yeah, I mean.
	Well, here's the implication.
	If he's saying you can't question women because they have emotions, are you saying that women are so emotionally weak that they can't stand scrutiny?
	It's like, is this what you're saying?
	That men are strong and you can question a man, but you dare not question a woman because she's a fragile little flower.
	And that is directly what they are saying as well.
	This believe a woman thing, it's just like, look, Anita, you don't understand.
	I'm never just going to believe someone.
	I'm always going to see if it, at least, even if it's just on the surface, just their story is internally consistent and that it actually reflects reality in some way before I even think about accepting it.
	And then I might accept it and then think, right, okay, well, I'm going to investigate this further just to make sure, or something like that.
	Like any normal person, surely, or what I would have thought a normal person would do.
	You know, later on in the conversation, they're discussing the death threats against Sarkeesian.
	And there are some questions about how she got a screencap 13 seconds after the last one was tweeted at her when she wasn't logged in.
	Was this Kevin Dobson?
	You know what?
	I'm not certain.
	No, no, I have got information, not information, but I've got the information that she released about Kevin Dobson, which was someone who sent messages saying that he was going to rape her bloody with a pole or something.
	Yeah, that Kevin Dobson.
	Yeah, they were all within three minutes of each other.
	And the last one was, yeah, it was about 12 seconds that she screen capped it from a Twitter account that wasn't logged in.
	And most importantly, why would someone register an account with a real name if they were going to send death threats?
	Now, and here's the bit that really struck me again about the social justice order.
	This demonstrates the childlike thinking, the black and white, simplistic good boy, bad boy morality of these people, where he said, he said to Jordan, what is the implication of that argument?
	And this guy cannot tell the difference between a question and an argument.
	You are asking a question.
	I would like an investigation into this.
	Anita, how did you get those tweets?
	Explain this to me.
	I'm not saying we shouldn't protect you.
	You know, assume that there's danger.
	The cops should be protecting her if she got death threats.
	But I've got some questions.
	But he can't tell the difference between an argument, a statement, and a question.
	I can question your claim that you got a death threat without arguing that you didn't.
	It rather seems that he's projecting on time.
	He's inferred an argument without even considering what the answer to the question is.
	It's an obvious way of avoiding having to honestly analyze the question.
	Because looking for an agenda within it.
	And if just merely asking the question has an agenda, then that obviously means that there's an answer.
	He knows that there's an answer that's going to severely damage his worldview.
	Well, every question he asks has an agenda.
	Another bit of the simplistic thinking is where they're talking about the strip club level in Hitman.
	And he said, Jordan points out that you don't actually have to go into the dressing room with the strippers.
	It's part of the environment, but there's no reason to go there.
	There's no reason to kill the strippers.
	And he responded, you're invited into that dressing room because you're invited.
	I don't have the self-control.
	No, that you're allowed to.
	It reminds me of these religious fundamentalists who say that I would rape and murder people if God didn't make it illegal.
	Yes, exactly.
	Absolutely.
	This is what I mean when I say projection.
	It's like, no, that says more about you.
	That was your thought.
	That wasn't my thought.
	My thought was never, maybe I should sneak into a room and kill some strippers, even though there's no benefit for me doing so.
	It's just a hassle and a waste of bullets, probably, you know.
	But in their mind, it was there is an opportunity for mischief of some kind.
	I will take it because there's nothing to stop me.
	They want to be told what to do and controlled all the time.
	He's saying any video game that gives you freedom.
	Like back in the days of Ultima 8, I made a mini-game out of trying to kill NPCs, like major NPCs, because the game was set up to try and make it impossible that you instantly get murdered by the town sorcerer if you murder anybody.
	And so it was a challenge to try and break the game.
	You know, I'd set up bombs and surround somebody, then run far enough away that the town sorcerer wouldn't notice me.
	And it was hilarious because a lot of these people didn't have death animations.
	they'd just be frozen like this for the rest of the game.
	I have to say, I just want to, sorry, I don't mean to interrupt, but I...
	I was just checking whether it was the one I played.
	And Ultima 8 is the Ultimate game I actually played, and I adored that game.
	Apparently, it was one of the worst.
	Until I completely shit the bed.
	Ultimate 8 was supposedly terrible, and I loved it.
	Which makes me want to play 7.
	Well, I actually, if I recall correctly, we're talking quite a few years ago now.
	But I'm sure I did go back and try the other Ultimate games, and I could not get on with them at all.
	They were too different to Ultimate 8s.
	It's the evolution of the technology.
	I argue that System Shock 1 is far, far superior to System Shock 2, but it's basically unplayable nowadays because it was right in between the Doom games where it was completely keyboard controlled and you didn't have strafing.
	You had left turn, right, turn, move forward, or hit control and A, and then you straight.
	And it was before the mouse controlled FPSs, and it tried to be a new type of FPS, but the controls are just so bizarre that it's bloody near unplayable at this point.
	It's great, but if you can't play it, I don't blame you.
	I managed to get a copy of Doom a few years ago, about, I don't know, 12 years after I last played it.
	And one of the things I couldn't believe is how slow it was.
	Everything was so slow.
	The imps and their fireballs.
	They'd fire a fireball and you just watch it approaching.
	Just take a sidestep and watch it fly past and be like, how did they ever hit me?
	But like you said, it was the controls.
	It was all about the controls.
	Because this was one where you could have a free mouse look.
	It was a rebooted version or something.
	And yeah, the controls.
	That breaks the game.
	Yeah, there's a new version of System Shock 1 where you can do the mouse movement, and the game's not hard enough now.
	It's like you can get those crippled controls to have the true experience.
	Yeah, that's exactly the problem.
	Not the problem, but exactly the reason that I actually haven't been back to play Doom, you know, because I did absolutely love Doom, but it just doesn't work when you've got more freedom to do what you want to do.
	To imagine people were calling these things killing simulators back in the day.
	You know, it's an interesting thing.
	since the year 2000, as in the rise of the first-person shooter, there's been a noticeable decline in gun crime and murders.
	You know, I mean, there still are gun crime and murders, but it's, and I'm not necessarily saying that correlation implies causation, but, I mean, if there are less people on the streets causing trouble and they're all playing first-person shooters instead, that's, you know, as an outlet for what would have been the otherwise, you know, normal teenage male, you know, feeling of wanting to cause trouble.
	Uh...
	then isn't that surely a better thing?
	You know what?
	I think that if games had any effect, any negative effect, we would see it in driving.
	Because when you drive in Grand Theft Auto, you are completely ignoring.
	You're just a frickin' maniac.
	And I get so frustrated with, like, I have the, I love road rage, okay?
	I don't lose control.
	I have fun with it.
	Like, I can road rage at somebody for a good half hour without repeating myself.
	I usually yell at them that they need to go to church.
	And you haven't run anyone down or gone to killing spree yet?
	Is that what you can do?
	Because I don't believe you.
	I'd say it had any sort of negative effect.
	We would see more stupid driving stunts in traffic killing people.
	And we have to be everywhere.
	It would be everywhere.
	How many billions is the gaming industry worth now?
	Didn't Grand Theft Auto make a billion on its first day?
	And it would be everywhere.
	People don't take their cars off of sweet jumps.
	Unless they're like, well, I'm half country, half city.
	Country boys have always taken their cars off of sweet jumps.
	I've taken my car off a few sweet jumps, but in the country, not in downtown traffic.
	Exactly.
	It's under surprisingly controlled circumstances.
	Oh, geez, one time I was skidding on gravel towards a ditch, so I downshifted a second in mid-air and climbed up at 45, did a 270 and up the driveway.
	That was a fun night.
	I reconsider my controlled circumstances comment.
	Empty road in the middle of nowhere at night.
	It's not in the middle of traffic.
	Yeah, yeah.
	But yeah, we would see some sort of effect from all of this.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	It's too pervasive.
	It's too ubiquitous.
	There's no way that so many people can be playing games, so many hours of games being played.
	So many hours.
	And yeah, murder crime rates are at an all-time low.
	If you look at crime rates since the 70s, they've been on a steady decline of all kinds.
	And the feminists are getting more and more hysterical over the tiny, you know, the relatively tiny numbers of crimes that are going on.
	And maybe it is social media.
	Barack Obama the other day said social media is making the world fallpox.
	Everyone thinks it's a lot worse than it is.
	And maybe he's right.
	Maybe that's not total bullshit for once.
	Well, you know what?
	If there's any redeeming factor in bowling for Columbine, it's the pointing out that the American news is extremely paranoia.
	You know, every storm is the worst storm in history.
	You know, it's constant panic, constant be afraid, be fearful.
	Yeah, this, I tell you, ISIS is doing my head in.
	And not because of who they are or what they are.
	You know, I'm not surprised.
	You know, I'm genuinely not that surprised that something really monstrous has sprung out of Mesopotamia.
	It's not the first time in history.
	A Middle Eastern war?
	What?
	Yeah, who could have imagined that?
	And you know what?
	Here's the thing.
	And for the record, even though I'm right-leaning, conservative, I was against the Iraq war from day one.
	Yeah, it was obviously bollocks.
	It was obviously bollocks.
	Like Afghanistan, yeah, that's where Osama was hanging out.
	Iraq did not like Afghanistan.
	They were not buddies.
	Iraq had F-all to do with it.
	They had a lot to do with America, though, didn't they?
	Dude, didn't they?
	And I could have, quite frankly, anybody that knows even the tiniest little bit about Middle Eastern history, especially the past hundred years, could have said that this Iraq war is going to wind up with something like ISIS happening.
	Either we're going to have to be there for 50 years.
	Actually, I don't even think it matters.
	We could have been there for 50 years, and at the end of 50 years, ISIS would have popped up.
	I agree.
	I don't think a Western solution is possible.
	Listen, if you want to go, if you want to.
	Listen, we don't have any problems with worshipers of Malik anymore.
	The Romans knew how to deal with a culture that was that.
	And if you're not willing to turn the Middle East into a giant glass sea with nuclear radiation, then maybe you should leave it alone.
	I agree.
	I think that there are natural internal forces that will rise to the top.
	And unfortunately, at the moment, the most extreme and evil of these natural forces has prevailed.
	And it's because the moderate natural forces haven't been given any kind of voice.
	I mean, if you know what?
	I just want to give a shout out to distant left in the comments who points out that Osama was in Pakistan and they're in America.
	You're completely right.
	You are bang on.
	We could go on for hours about the political nonsense.
	Yeah.
	Like freaking joke, this whole thing is.
	There are no victory conditions.
	You do not go into a war without victory conditions.
	Otherwise, how do you know when you win?
	One of my fundamental problems with all of this as well is, I mean, Bin Laden was, I think, a mile and a half from a Pakistani military base.
	And I'm thinking, you know, and he was an enclosed compound, high-walled.
	He hadn't been out in four years.
	He sounds like a prisoner.
	He sounds like he was a goddamn prisoner.
	And one of the things that really bothers me is that everyone takes the official story at face value.
	And I just want to say them: what do you think the CIA get paid for?
	What do you think Mossad get paid for?
	What do you think the Pakistani intelligence agencies get paid for?
	They get paid to do under the table political shit just like this.
	You know, finding bin Laden in a compound, a secure compound near a Pakistani military base, you know, in the country next to the one that he's supposed to be in, is incredibly suspect.
	You know, it isn't.
	If I was looking at this from like in 500 years in the future, and I was a historian, I didn't care about any of these, or something 500 years ago, and I saw these coincidences, I would automatically assume that they had something to do with it.
	You know, it's so strange to assume that the mainstream media is just telling the truth on this, and they're absolutely on point.
	You know, even if they're not lying, and even if they're just wrong, you know, that doesn't change the fact that they're wrong.
	You know, to get back to video games and to continue this conversation with video games, sorry, yeah, sorry, yeah.
	In Civ 5, one of the things I love is that in the God and Kings expansion pack, you've got ideologies starting with the Industrial Revolution.
	Do you want to tell us a bit about those?
	Because I actually have only got normal Civ 5.
	I don't have the expansion.
	And I personally want to hear more about them, and I think it might be useful for people listening to.
	Well, I'm actually thinking I'm going to do a full socio-political analysis of this, because the guys behind CIF, Sid Meyer is brilliant.
	But the freedom ideology, the primary tactic that you have is undermining other countries' sovereignty by putting, basically you put an agent in that country to rake the election so that they become your ally.
	The stuff that's going on in the Ukraine right now, the official news is from an American created and subsidized news company.
	The unbiased news is dictated by the American foreign policy.
	That's basically what you do in Civ 5 as the freedom ideology.
	That is unbelievably astute!
	There are three things I'm going to be doing quite in-depth videos about in the near future.
	The first is the American police force and where it's going.
	The second is ISIS and what's going on.
	Because just to interrupt myself here, I watched a Young Turks video the other day, and Chenk was saying how Saudi Arabia flipping to ISIS from America was, quote, the most likely outcome.
	He thinks that the Saudi monarchy is going to join ISIS!
	What the fuck is he thinking?
	Somebody wrote an article back when I was in Amaster.
	It was just for the student paper, but somebody wrote this article hating George Bush and saying that Canada should ally with Iraq so that they'll protect us from the Americans.
	That's about on point.
	That's about the equivalent.
	This is the people that we have going to university, and you wonder why the world screwed up.
	I don't.
	I'm fully aware of why, because they're all idiots.
	They are all idiots.
	To a man, either they are all lying and doing this maliciously, or I attribute it to stupidity rather than malice.
	And I have to attribute it to stupidity because I don't think even people who are being malicious would think that would fly.
	I mean, Saudi Arabia, Russia today put out an article saying, look, with photos of these walls and fences and watchtowers facing Iraq, because they didn't want militants just wandering across the desert into Saudi Arabia.
	I don't blame them, you know?
	Just the very idea of Saudi Arabia suddenly flipping to ISIS is assholes.
	The Saudis are assholes, but at least they're halfway civilized.
	Yeah, no, no, they know which side their bread's buttered on, you know, and they know.
	They know.
	They treat the temporary workers like shit.
	Yeah.
	You know, like any like they're, oh God, a big, there's like a substantial industry of North American and European girls going there to be like basically high-paid call girls, and they don't get treated very well.
	But it's like, what are you expecting to happen, you know?
	Like, at least they keep, at least they have roads.
	They have, you know, buildings.
	Yeah, they're not a bunch of fucking, you know, desert hut dwellers these days.
	You know, they're actually a surprisingly wealthy country with thousands of the royal family that would all be overthrown if ISIS, if they joined ISIS.
	The last thing they want is Islam, like is a powerful Islamic state.
	They're a bunch of cynical capitalists just like we are.
	They have a bunch of bastards running corporations just like we do.
	Yeah, exactly.
	Who do they think they're going to sell their oil to if they join ISIS?
	I mean, it's just such a, and as if they think, oh, well, the Americans just, well, they take that sort of thing lying down, don't they?
	They don't send across battle fleets and invasion forces.
	When has the American Empire ever done that?
	You know, it just, it's such a laughable thing to have said.
	And he says it with such sincere conviction.
	I'm just like, that is just batshit insane.
	If you think that, you are mental, you know?
	Okay, and you know what?
	This goes back to something you were saying earlier about kind of how so many people are involved in Gamergate.
	And this is why.
	Because the mainstream media has been such a laughingstock.
	It's been so absurd.
	And whether you are, like, whatever, whether you're liberal, Republican, whatever you are, you watch CNN, you watch Fox, and this is a load of crap.
	And so what's happened is the internet has allowed us to start communicating.
	And so kind of like my background would mainly be with the manosphere.
	And when you get right down to it, the manosphere is just frank talk about what it means to be a man and how to get laid.
	It's not about abusing women.
	It's about how...
	It's frank talk, but it's not hateful speech.
	Yeah, I think it's just...
	I mean, I don't really...
	I've never done any of the sort of PUA stuff, but I've been on the MGTOW forums, and most of them are just guys who are pissed off about the way they've been treated out in the greater real world.
	I've never done any of the sort of PUA stuff but I've been on the MGTOW forums and most of them are just guys who are pissed off about the way they've been treated outer in the greater real world and there's some of them that are angry because they just got divorced but it's not reasonable things to be angry about that's the thing This isn't irrational.
	This is a completely logical response to the way they've been treated by society at large, which is actually acting irrational these days.
	Then you've got the atheists.
	I think I don't want to speak for him, but I would think that that's pretty much Jordan's background.
	Now, atheists, you know, 50 years ago, atheists are these evil, subversive, whatever.
	Modern atheism is really, it's a philosophical scientific analysis because religion has just collapsed.
	Religion is a bunch of people screaming my Bible.
	Like theology is dead.
	We killed God 200 years ago.
	They're not bad people.
	They just want to have a conversation and they look at the stupid debates happening in the mainstream.
	They're like, I don't know.
	And so what Gamergate is doing is that all of these people, we've kind of all these groups have formed, right?
	And we haven't been speaking to each other.
	And all of a sudden with Gamergate, we realize that, like, even though we disagree with each other, like, I tend to lean towards beliefs that are very close to Catholicism.
	So I disagree with atheists, but they're not my enemies.
	They're not trying to hurt me or shut me down or destroy my life or any of that stuff.
	No, no, I totally agree on that point.
	And that's one of the things that I think is why a lot of these groups haven't really been aware of each other because they're groups that are just, they just want to get on with what they're doing.
	They don't want to hurt anyone.
	They don't want to infiltrate anyone's group or, you know, they don't want to get in other people's shit.
	They just want to do their own shit and be left alone.
	Let's put it this way.
	I'm sure there's women groups.
	I know there's rational feminists out there.
	Oh, Christina Summers.
	Both.
	Exactly.
	Her example.
	Try and get a hold of her for the documentary.
	She is so amazing.
	I'm happy to ask her to join you on that one.
	Camille Pegli, yeah.
	That's another one.
	She is brilliant.
	And I'm sure there's groups of women because as toxic as the dating culture is for men, it's just as toxic for women.
	Oh, you know?
	They've fed off each other.
	They've created a culture where men, they don't necessarily commit to men and they don't expect anything of men.
	And therefore, men have just become cynical and gone, okay, well, we won't expect anything.
	And so any person on either side of the fence who is expecting something has got a high chance of dating someone who isn't.
	No, I'm not a Catholic, by the way.
	I've never been confirmed.
	I'm still technically an atheist, just not a very good one.
	Anyway, so these girls, hypothetically, like I don't know which groups they'd be, but they see the manosphere and they see one guy yells, all women are whores.
	And really, that's a guy that just got divorced because his wife cheated on him.
	He's angry and justifiably so.
	But they see that voice and they think the whole thing is just anger and nonsense when really it's a bunch of guys saying, hey, marriage is screwed up.
	You're really going to have to convince me to trust you before I'll trust modern divorce law.
	I'm not going to hurt you, but I'm not trusting you as much as I used to.
	That's exactly reflected in the marriage statistics.
	And on every goddamn Huffington Post and the female section of every major paper, there are articles, dozens of articles.
	Oh, why can't I get married?
	I'm a really successful woman and no one will marry me.
	And it's just like, well, have you seen what happens to guys who get married?
	Younger guys see older guys and the older guys just say, don't ever get married.
	And as if they expect that to not have some sort of knock-on effect, especially when you combine that with them saying, we don't need men anymore.
	We're strong, independent women.
	We don't need men.
	Men need to be needed.
	That's one of the raison d'êtres.
	In a lot of cases, that's what they think makes a man a man, is to be selfless and put others before yourself.
	All the great male heroes throughout all of history have always been selfless.
	They started off selfish.
	They've gone on the hero's journey and they've come back selfless and working for other people.
	Just to play the sympathetic ear, the women have some valid complaints too.
	Oh, absolutely.
	Absolutely.
	I'm not trying to denigrate what they're saying.
	Like, can you blame women for divorcing a lot of these men that we have out there?
	We have this whole system set up that's toxic against everybody.
	And yet we haven't communicated until Gamergate.
	It's just amazing that this is the thing that everyone cares about.
	It's obvious corruption that's hurting all of us.
	White, black, man, woman, left, right.
	We're all pissed off about this.
	And we finally have something we can come around.
	Put aside our differences for now so we can have a real argument later.
	Because these people don't want to have a real argument.
	They just want to manipulate language and take power.
	I totally agree.
	And the thing is, I really think that gaming is a bit of a meritocracy.
	In fact, I think it's the best meritocracy I can think of.
	Everyone starts on a level playing field.
	When you first load up a game, everyone starts in the same position.
	And it's your own choice, your own judgment, your own skill, your own actions that allows you to be the victor if you are the victor.
	Or in whatever sense, even if it's just teamwork and cooperation, good teamwork and your own actions allow you to win.
	Or just solving a puzzle or something like that.
	It's all about agency.
	And games are one of those things where it's just agency that wins.
	It's just your effect and your actions and your choices.
	There are no special favors.
	You can't have corruption outside of cheating and hacking and stuff.
	But they're illegal.
	They're not part of the game.
	Everyone's within the same set of rules and it's how you use them which shows your talent.
	I do think that that does have a kind of purity to it.
	You can't corrupt that.
	You can't corrupt it without being obviously corrupt.
	There's no way of hiding that.
	And therefore people are going to be like, no, no, that's not fair.
	We'll go back to Quake 3 or something.
	It's that sort of mentality.
	And I really think it's a universal thing, which is why literally everyone, even no matter what other people do, what hobbies they've got or interests they've got, that is an ideal I think a lot of people share.
	Yeah, and you know what?
	There is so much diversity in the gaming field.
	Like, at present, women make up, I think, 47% of the gaming marketplace.
	And one of the...
	Well, I just want to address that, because I've actually done a video about that called Lies, Lies in the Gaming Press.
	They do, but it's important to note what they're playing.
	So it's a very loosely true statistic.
	Because the women who are playing games would never identify themselves as gamers because most of them, an overwhelming majority of them, are playing Farmville and Candy Crush and games like that.
	Also, they're playing a lot of point-and-click adventures.
	And I don't want to in any way make it sound like I don't respect these genres because they're not for me, but these people are obviously getting a lot out of these genres.
	They spend money on them.
	They play them a lot.
	There's a lot of players.
	That's great.
	And this is why they say, oh, there are more 35-year-old women gamers than there are 17 to 25.
	And it's like, no, there's not.
	There's just not.
	My mum is not a gamer.
	And she plays games.
	So let's make this distinction.
	We know that these people aren't gamers.
	They wouldn't self-identify.
	They aren't gamers.
	But this does the diversity in the field.
	One of the BS things that...
	Can I just finish a quick...
	Sorry, it's just important to round out what I'm saying, because this is the statistic that the social justice warriors use to validate the arguments to change the games that are predominantly male, that are predominantly...
	and I mean like 80-90% male players.
	I've got this statistics listed in the sources of that video if anyone's curious about any of this.
	I strongly recommend you check it out because it's so obvious what they're doing when you can see the numbers.
	And It doesn't justify it at all.
	All that justifies them doing is taking control of the Farmville and the Candy Crush games.
	And I don't even want them doing that.
	The people playing those games are obviously very happy with them as they are.
	So don't, you know, if anyone who plays those games is thinking, oh, well, you know, I'm worried about them coming over here, get on board.
	You can call yourselves gamers, seriously.
	They are actively not gamers.
	So don't let them co-opt what you're doing.
	But yeah, sorry, I just wanted to finish that off there because I wanted to make it clear where I stood on them.
	Oh, and the you know, one of the BS things the guy said to Jordan was that the majority of video game protagonists are male.
	Who's the protagonist in Candy Crush?
	Yeah, there's do not denigrate those games.
	I'm not saying you are.
	I'm saying that.
	No, they are.
	Yeah.
	I was watching an extra credits video on this, talking about the sheer amount of design that you need to put into something like Candy Crush for it not to be a piece of junk.
	It is, you have to really work hard.
	I don't play those games, but making them interesting, making them engaging is a lot of work, and there's no protagonist in it.
	That's absolutely true.
	And I've actually spoken to women who do play them, and they don't really know why they enjoy it.
	They just enjoy the sort of ambience of the game almost.
	That's kind of how they describe it to me.
	It's like, I just like the way it looks and the way it plays.
	And it's like, you know, you can tell that a lot of thought went into that because, like you say, you can't just, if you knock up something like that, it's going to be shit.
	You know, I've tried it, and it was shit.
	That's why I never released it.
	And you can tell Candy Crush is.
	Sorry, finish.
	Oh, it's just going to put a lot of work into it.
	Sorry, Karen.
	Oh, I was saying, I have a friend, video game developer, professional, makes their money this way.
	They're putting together a game right now for couples to play with two distinct game modes that are based on Hunter-Gatherer.
	That's a great idea.
	The two, like, you can basically boil down the games men like are mainly hunting games.
	It's the hero journey, the man fighting the world, whereas the women tend to like the relationship-based games and the gathering games.
	And this person is trying to combine those two aspects into a single game so they complement each other so couples can play together.
	And this is a person with a lot of experience making games for both men and women.
	And I'm not going to mention them because they'll get shit on by the social justice warriors if I say who it is.
	I mean, that is a fantastic idea because I've got plenty of friends who, you know, they're male and female couples, and they sit in the same room together, and they don't really talk because they're on the computers playing.
	And one's playing one type of game, and the other is playing another type of game, and they don't really interact.
	And if they had a game that they were both playing that they both got equally different things out of, but equal to an equal measure, if they were cooperating, that would be fantastic because it would give them something to talk about.
	I'm thinking, like, I mean, I don't know anything about this, obviously, but I'm thinking that off the top of my head, I would literally have a small settlement, like not an MMO, or maybe an MMO, but in fact, could well be an MMO, where literally they can almost role play those particular roles.
	The women can make stuff, they can harvest stuff, they can do the things they like to do in Farmville, and then can go off killing monsters.
	And then coming back and then getting resources, so the women are doing it for a reason, like healing potions or something.
	I don't know.
	So there's a tangible reason that they're doing it.
	I'm a fantastic idea.
	Because that sounds like fun.
	And there's no rule saying the women have to do these jobs.
	Of course, of course.
	They're just jobs available in the game.
	Hey, you know what?
	I'm a guy.
	I have a battle plant that I grow, and I like growing plants.
	You know?
	Yeah, absolutely.
	I prefer fixing cars, but I like a bit of gardening, too.
	Even though that's more of a traditionally, like, that's the more gatherer sort of thing.
	You know, there's no rule saying you have to be one or the either.
	One or the other.
	I totally agree.
	And that's, that's the, this is what I mean about games.
	No one can stop you doing anything.
	You know, no one can stop you making a game.
	No one can stop you playing a game.
	No one can stop you playing a game how you want to play it as long as the game allows for it.
	And I mean, I used to play, it was a Fallout 2 MMO that some, no, it was amazing.
	It was like some guys in Poland or Russia or something had basically taken all the art assets from Fallout 2 and then taken all the scripting and then just turned it into an MMO and combined the map of Fallout 1 and 2.
	So you had the entire map of North America, like the west coast of North America, practically.
	And it was amazing because you literally form parties with your friends or whoever people around and then you travel across the world map and you get into encounters just like in Fallout.
	I don't know whether you ever played the Fallout games.
	Oh, good.
	Me, the guy that writes post-apocalypse of science fiction?
	I thought you might.
	I thought you might.
	But I tell you what, it was amazing.
	I actually started writing that book because at the time it looked like Fallout 3 was never going to happen.
	Really?
	You know what?
	I want a post-apocalyptic story.
	So instead of complaining about it, I'm going to actually write one.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	That's the sort of attitude that I think the social justice workers should have.
	But the thing with this game, right, it was really, really brutal.
	It was totally unforgiving.
	When you died, you lost everything on your person, and then you reappeared in the wasteland somewhere with nothing.
	And what you could do is get Brahmin hides and create tents, and then you could save up resources and gold and then speak to specific characters that were dotted around the world and purchase hideouts that you and your base could use, you and your group could use, and then you could form factions.
	So you could go to, you know, you could have wars with other factions, essentially.
	It was amazing.
	It's gone down now.
	And it's gutting.
	But it was the sort of thing that when you got the faction base and when you started cooperating with other players, you got people, people fell into very definitive archetypes.
	I've got one of my friends, he was featured in my slinging video.
	He's very much a I mean, we became total communists.
	You know, all the money was shared, all the resources were shared.
	Everyone trusted each other to be doing the best for the settlement.
	It was the craziest thing.
	Private property was just a joke.
	It's like, no, just, you know, if there were weapons in the weapons locker, because it had a great crafting system as well.
	You know, you could harvest resources, you could collect stuff, and then you could make weapons, ammo, armor.
	You chose your specialities.
	So, you know, I made guns, you know, a friend of mine made energy weapons.
	Another one made grenades.
	Another one made armor.
	And you end up as this.
	We ended up as this amazing, efficient communist system where we just had an abundance of resources.
	Because my friend Scott would go and he just liked grinding and harvesting, you know.
	And so he'd come back stacked with loads of ore that he'd mined.
	And then I enjoyed turning it into specific kinds of ammo, making sure we always had enough ammo, making sure we had replacement weapons for when we died and replacement armor.
	And I enjoyed managing the inventory.
	I didn't really enjoy getting the stuff, but he enjoyed contributing by getting the stuff.
	And it became a really efficient system.
	And it would be really nice to see something like that occur with a couples-based sort of thing where women primarily get this out of these sort of games.
	So if you incorporate it into a game that men primarily get what they get out of it, it's a really, really great idea.
	You know, actually, you're touching on something else that I've been thinking a lot about lately, is video games and economics.
	The one thing that really strikes me is, like, even though, like, yeah, I'm an Austrian gold standard, rah-rah, um, that still doesn't really solve the problem of, like, when you have, when you have, I'm trying, I'm going to try not to get too obscured here, but anytime you have fractional reserve lending, you get inflation, period.
	That happens.
	It's designed for it.
	It's what it does.
	Economies almost inevitably lead to a 1% controlling 99%.
	Time and time and time again, no matter what, try and like we don't have a solution to this.
	We still don't understand money, and we've had it for, what, 4,000 years, 5,000?
	Not quite that long.
	2,700, roughly.
	Oh, okay.
	Thank you.
	Coinage itself.
	Not an expert on everything.
	Okay, history is my forte.
	Well, it's supposed to be my forte, too, but I mostly studied the French Revolution.
	That's a good revolution study.
	There's a lot of lessons there.
	A lot of lessons we should be learning right now, you know.
	But, you know, thousands of years we've had money.
	We still don't know how it works.
	And these jackasses running the central banks, they don't know how it works either.
	And yet, video game developers, again, going to extra credits, they're talking about the economies of World of Warcraft, for instance.
	Each time you kill a monster, that adds.
	It was excellent.
	In fact, you're absolutely right.
	And it's easy to see why.
	They've got an infinite test arrangement.
	They can test any kind of system on a lot of people.
	And if they fail, they get fired.
	Justine Tunney, she's going to be on the documentary.
	And she's a coder.
	And her employer doesn't really matter.
	But these coders, these search engines, whatnot, these people are designing a system to regulate millions of people.
	They're doing basically what the social scientists and bureaucrats are supposed to be doing in social services, except that they get fired.
	And they come up with these amazing products that work wonders, whereas the jackasses in government can't do anything competently, and they make any problem they touch worse.
	I tell you, it's a really interesting point that we've hit on this, because the EVE Online one was an excellent example of how it's encouraged that you go to war and destroy property because that forces people to replace it.
	And I know it's the breaking the glass window problem where it doesn't actually increase the economy, but it's a real-world aspect that most games with economies leave out.
	This is the sort of thing that genuinely affects your economy and it stifles your growth.
	And it's one of those things that in the long run probably prevents hyperinflation and stuff like that.
	And it's yeah, and like you say, it literally is like a testing ground for concepts for economy.
	And they've got such huge audiences who are all participating and it's regulating people, exactly as you say.
	And there are a lot of good lessons that could be learned.
	Yeah, you walk into a DMV and you just, geez, it's like, you know, these bureaucrats, they'd replace us all with machines if you gave them half a chance, to quote a classic video game.
	You feel terrible when you're dealing with the government.
	But these games are, you don't feel terrible except when Steam insists on downloading something you bought off the bloody internet.
	I hate you, Steam.
	Great server.
	This interweb.
	I don't like it.
	I like how I don't wow.
	Keep my stuff on.
	I've burned everything to 3.5 diskettes.
	I tell you what, one thing that I know we're getting off topic, but fuck it.
	One thing I've always been surprised about is that there's no steam for movies and TV series.
	Isn't there like something...
	There's Netflix.
	Yeah, but that's just streaming, and that can change.
	They change licenses and stuff.
	Instead of me buying a physical copy of a movie, can't I just buy a digital copy of a movie I can download whenever I want, like with Steam?
	I mean, that would be...
	I can't see how that wouldn't make money.
	You know?
	How...
	And think about it.
	It's just like a famous actor-actress dies, and you put their film on half all their film discography on half price.
	Think of the amount of money you're going to make.
	I know it's cynical, but it's a service I really would like to see existing, you know?
	Yeah, I would attribute that, and I'm just getting water.
	No problem.
	I'm going to get a cup of tea in a second.
	Yeah, it really boils down to, I think, the sheer investment needed to have a Hollywood system.
	Because I mentioned earlier, making movies is expensive.
	We did So Less in the Time of Heartache.
	We had a $10,000 budget for that.
	And quite frankly, we wrote paychecks for ourselves in that.
	Not ungenerous paychecks.
	By the time we were done, those paychecks were gone.
	It is ridiculous.
	I've heard from lots of sources that making movies is very expensive.
	Very first day, the diner we showed up at.
	And yeah, I'm not saying anything bad, but I don't want to talk shit about people.
	What happened was, I guess the owner forgot to mention this to his employees.
	It just slipped his mind, and then he left, but he forgot his cell phone at the restaurant.
	And so we get there, and the employees are like, well, we're going home.
	And so I have to go next door to the neighboring shop and bribe the guy with 50 bucks to stick around long enough to lock the doors when we're done.
	And it's stuff like that.
	These incidental, just constant, constant, constant problems.
	Yeah.
	No, no, I can completely understand.
	Entrepreneurship is fraught with difficulties because fundamentally it doesn't have a system set up to support it.
	Normally when you're working for a big company, you're working within a system that's already established.
	So I do completely understand how this sort of thing could be an absolute nightmare under the right circumstances.
	One of my pet peeves is people complaining.
	One of the most frustrating comments I get is, how are you any different than Sarkeesian?
	First of all, the criticism of Sarkeesian is for $160,000, she's making well-done YouTube videos.
	As Thunderfoot pointed out, it's $30,000 a video.
	And there are also plenty of other criticisms that are completely legitimate as well.
	She's being manipulative.
	It's the tail wagging the dog.
	That's the real criticism.
	If she just collected this money and made a bunch of crappy YouTube videos and her idiot fans didn't complain about it, whatever.
	I didn't contribute anything.
	It wouldn't answer to me at all.
	Wouldn't matter.
	The criticism is not that she made money.
	There is nothing wrong with making money.
	But these people are so cynical, and they think that 15 grand is a lot.
	Like for filming a bloody documentary.
	I actually had a conversation with someone who had made that point, and I honestly didn't know whether they were trying to say that it was a trifling amount or that it was far too much.
	The tone of it really made it sound like they were saying that's nothing, because previously they'd been talking about the money Anish Sarkeesian raised, and yeah, you're asking for a lot less than she did.
	She achieved.
	So I really couldn't tell what position they were taking on that issue.
	I had to ask them.
	They didn't reply, obviously, because why would they?
	It might have made them look stupid.
	But yeah.
	It's a it's one of the ch like we are such we just spit on virtue in this civilization.
	And I think this is an example of it because it was Plato that argued that all virtue is between two extremes.
	Like our perfect example is the church dasky promise ring dancing with daddy creepy garbage.
	The opposite of slutty is not or sorry, chastity is not the opposite of slutty.
	Being a frigid is the opposite of slutty.
	Chastity is having sex when it's the right time to have sex with the right person.
	It's not giving it away to everybody, and it's not humming the national anthem while your husband grunts away.
	Absolutely.
	Filthy, disgusting sex with your husband.
	And so what we're kind of like, the frustrating aspect is on the one side, you have the people that support Sarkeesian are the most gullible idiots you can imagine.
	But then we have the other extreme of extreme skepticism.
	And it's like I've had, because I'm trying to answer the critics of this, unlike Sarkeesian, I'm trying to answer people, but so many of them are these radical skeptics that can't be convinced by anything.
	You know, skepticism, ask questions, but be open to changing your mind.
	Yeah, now that's actually a really interesting point because I do think that credulity is something that's severely lacking in a lot of spheres these days.
	And I think this isn't necessarily just Anita Sarkeesian related.
	In fact, I think it's the entire world.
	One thing that drives me crazy is when I'll be discussing politics with an American, and I hate to say this, but it is always an American that I have this conversation with.
	And I'll say something like, Russia today created fences to block off ISIS militants, so I don't think they're going to flip to ISIS.
	And they'll say, yeah, but that's Russia today.
	On The Young Turks or CNN or Fox or wherever, they say this.
	And I'm like, yeah, but that's Fox, CNN, and whatever.
	Do you understand?
	They're both the same.
	I treat them with exactly the same amount of credulity.
	I assume they're telling me half the story, but I assume that some of what they're telling me is true.
	And there's also another example of this: the people that completely blindly follow their government, which is who you were just talking about, completely believe, oh, Joe, and then you've got the people that are just completely cynical about nationalism entirely.
	You know, and it's like it you've got like listen, if you want heroes, you have to believe in the nobility of the human spirit.
	You know, you can't be trying to drag everybody like you can't be cynical about everything.
	You need to be skeptical.
	Yeah, yeah, skepticism's in the middle.
	I totally agree.
	Yeah, I I honestly, I really do completely agree with this.
	And it it's one thing that I really find is lacking from any kind of public discourse is actually just believing what the other side tells you.
	You know, because it a lot could get solved if you actually assume that they're not liars.
	Because they, you know, you want them to assume that you're not a liar.
	And, you know, I don't even know how else to say it.
	It's just like, you know, if we all start believing each other, then we can actually come to some solutions.
	And that's the problem with the world at large these days, I think.
	And I know that's painting extremely broad brush.
	But if you just listen to any kind of conversations on TV, you know?
	You know, actually, this and this goes exactly back to the social justice war playbook.
	And again, these are the notes I was writing.
	No, no, absolutely.
	It's fine.
	That's good that you've got them.
	It helps.
	You know what?
	He said, and we've got to unpack this a little bit.
	But he said, he was talking about, like, whatever.
	He said, I am not learned in being a woman.
	Learned in being a woman.
	Experience is anecdote.
	Yeah.
	Not.
	Learned means that you have studied the experiences, the writings, the records of hundreds of human beings.
	I am not learned about the military because I served in it.
	I am learned about the military because I have studied the history of military, of training, of how brotherhoods and gangs work.
	Conversely, you're experienced in the military.
	That's the difference.
	You're experienced in it.
	So you can give an accurate account of an individual's expected, what they should be able to expect from joining the military, but that doesn't give you any greater insight into the history beyond anything that would be common knowledge.
	Now, here's where it gets really toxic.
	By defining learned as having an experience, what you're saying is the only way to know somebody else is to be that person, that truly knowing them is impossible.
	And I'm not going to find the note, but basically, his attitude towards women, if you cannot understand women by listening to them, by reading their stories, by looking at history, if you cannot understand women, then you can only have one of two attitudes towards them.
	You can worship them as this unknowable goddess, or you can treat them like a slave, an unknowable other.
	Like a dog, for instance.
	We know that dogs will eat to the point that they're sick if we let them, but we don't know why they do that.
	We don't really understand the dog.
	We command the dog.
	So either you obey them or command them, you cannot communicate as equals.
	Conversation is impossible.
	Knowledge is impossible.
	It's just barking, violence.
	Like, this is the end state of the social justice belief system.
	I actually think it's maybe like the other way.
	Instead of looking at them as dogs, I think they look at them as gods.
	It seems very much sort of, you know, God moves in mysterious ways.
	Women move in mysterious ways.
	Don't question it.
	Just accept it.
	And it's just like, no.
	And it's Sarkeesians, listen and believe.
	Are you shitting me, Anita?
	I don't do that for anyone, let alone you.
	You know?
	But they completely dismiss the whole concept of knowledge, of understanding, of thought, of conversation.
	And this is the same thing.
	This kind of relates to what you're saying about the political discourse, where we need to try and communicate with one another.
	It's the social justice, it's the Marxists, it's the progressives who say that communication is impossible.
	Everything is force.
	Yeah, That's absolutely true.
	And it's one of the things that it really gets my goats when they presume to speak for what you are thinking.
	And you tell them directly what you're thinking, and they say, well, you're saying that because you hate women.
	And it's like, you can't know that.
	And I'm not saying I hate.
	You're the dog.
	The dog gets told, no, you're not eating because you'll get fat.
	You are an object.
	I don't exchange information with you to understand you.
	I dictate to you, and you worship me as the ineffable, unknowable.
	Exactly.
	You expect you can never understand.
	It's a violent relationship rather than an equitable, communicatory, human relationship.
	Absolutely.
	It's totally unequal, totally unequal.
	And they almost seem to understand that it's unequal.
	And it's just like, then you're not fighting for equality, are you?
	And I just can't understand this kind of servile nature towards women.
	I like women just fine, but I'm not going to serve them.
	And have you seen an article that Leia Alexander put out where she's basically sounds like she's making a list of demands to her boyfriend, but what she's actually asking is that all men treat all women this way.
	And it's just like, yeah, but that's because you don't have a boyfriend to treat you this way.
	You know, this is something you would normally ask your husband for or something.
	You just don't have that, and yet you still have the same emotional needs.
	And they're not being met.
	And so now you're putting out articles saying, oh, all men should do XYZ for all women because all women would like that.
	And it's just like, late, you can't seriously think that we think you know what all women want because all women don't know what they fucking want.
	You know, that's the, it's been the eternal question since the dawn of time.
	You know?
	So it's just like, ah.
	Woman is not an edifice.
	It's not a single thing.
	Exactly.
	Women are freaking human beings and peoples.
	Exactly.
	And you know what?
	Not every woman deserves to be treated like a lady.
	I treat people on an individual basis how they deserve to be treated.
	I have also heard feminists say you don't get to deserve which women are deserving of your respect.
	And I can't believe that I. What am I supposed to do with that?
	What am I supposed to do other than just mock them relentlessly?
	It's on my top 10 list of stupidest things I have ever heard a feminist say.
	Well, and stupid things.
	Projection.
	Everything that these people say about their opponents is projection about absolutely.
	I really think it is.
	I've got a wonderful document that I bookmarked about how societies, how France was dealing with domestic violence and cheating, infidelity.
	It's a really interesting document about the policies and the approaches they were trying to deal with this back 200, 300 years ago or whatever.
	And it's interesting because it's very different from what we do nowadays.
	But it's not the abusive, patriarchal women are property nonsense that we're taught.
	That feminist narrative is completely false.
	It's a complete load of crap.
	It never happened.
	And I can prove that it never happened.
	And yet, it's a projection because that's how they want to treat men.
	Yeah, I completely agree.
	I really do.
	It is so demonstrably false that women were property all through history.
	In at least Anglosphere societies.
	I mean, there are societies where women have been treated like property.
	But the problem with this is that it always comes from a place of the desire to protect women.
	In a lot of cases, it's a bit cynical, and it's the desire to protect them from themselves.
	And obviously, that infantilizes them.
	That doesn't bring the fine line.
	I'm not saying that women, but like what do we have nowadays?
	We've stopped trying to infantilize anybody, and so we leave them prey to the giant corporations that just want to sell them donuts.
	So now you have it's yeah, people, there's a there's a fine line between infantilizing people and offering them healthy guidance, not forcing them, but giving them guidance as to what they should be doing with their lives.
	Because you know, like if you're you're 18, you graduate high school, you trusted your guidance counselor when they sent you to university.
	Yeah, I mean, one I think I think what would be more useful first is just information.
	I think one of the main problems that people have these days is a complete lack of information.
	And I find this all the time when I talk about politics because nobody ever listens to the other side's opinion of what's going on and forms a balanced view based on the two opposing narratives that are being presented and finding what is probably common between the two and that kind of bounces from left to right, you know, on point to point.
	And that is probably the correct narrative, you know?
	By just going by the facts of what the facts are that each one is reporting, you know, creates a more realistic narrative than just one alone.
	And I really think that that's the problem we have these days.
	There are just no mainstream media outlets doing that.
	And people aren't aware of what they're not being told.
	So they think they're being told the truth.
	So they think they are informed, which is way more dangerous than people who know they're not being informed.
	You know?
	Yeah, a lot of this.
	Sorry, sorry to interrupt.
	Do you mind if I just grab my cup of tea at the moment?
	Because my mouth's a bit parched.
	Do you want to take some questions or something for two minutes?
	Sorry about this.
	Oh, yeah, yeah.
	Go right ahead.
	Let's see if anyone has any good questions.
	Yeah, get asking, guys.
	Let's see.
	Let me catch up here.
	When someone is blatantly, this is from Pilly.
	When someone is blatantly doing something dishonest and people know they're being dishonest, why do they carry on trying to be dishonest?
	And I'm going to assume that you're talking about the kind of social justice warriors.
	Like, Anita is clearly a fraud.
	Again, in that video with Jordan Owen, I think Jordan should have been meaner.
	But the guy asked, when has Anita ever lied?
	on her first video where she said she loved gaming.
	I think it's, I strongly argue these people do not believe that honesty is even possible.
	They don't believe that communication between two people is possible.
	They believe that everything is just personal opinion.
	Like, I've heard these people argue, like, this girl I knew back in university, she was doing a communications degree, same as Anita Sarkeesian, strangely, argued that 2 plus 2 equals 4 is a cultural perspective, and we're being hegemons forcing that upon the innocent tribes of Papua New Guinea.
	So they don't believe honesty exists.
	It's just a front you put up.
	It's a persona.
	You know, you call somebody a hypocrite not because they're a hypocrite, but just to discredit them.
	And yes, I own a fedora.
	I was wearing one in Less than the Time of Heartache.
	Which I think is probably too wordy of a title, but it's stuck.
	All right, from Lisker, question.
	Anita and her threats.
	She was threatened within 24 hours.
	She was back to beg for donations.
	Well, see, that's the really suspicious thing, isn't it?
	Was this merely cynical manipulation?
	Or like we talked earlier in the podcast that it is very suspicious that she got a screen tweet 13 seconds after they were sent to her when she wasn't logged in at the time.
	And, you know, I've been exchanging emails with Officer Esparza, if I remember his name correctly.
	And quite frankly, he's getting a lot of people making these requests, and he's not really forthcoming on all of it.
	I've decided to not pursue that line of investigation.
	Don't think I'm going to get any straight answers out of him, and he's just going to get more annoyed with the whole thing.
	Now, there is.
	Let me get the guy's name right.
	Goes by Nero on the Twitter.
	Writes for Breitbart.
	Milo.
	Yeah, Milo.
	Yeah.
	Yanopolis.
	Sorry, sorry.
	I cannot do Greek names.
	He probably gets all the time.
	He's probably used to it, I hope.
	Or maybe I'm the first guy that screwed up his name and he hates me.
	Now, he's doing a FOIA, a Freedom of Information request about what's going on with the FBI.
	I don't see there being much purpose in me pursuing this further with Officer Esparza.
	As I said, I tried to get some straight information out of the SFPD.
	Why the heck, if Anita was reporting these threats, why was there no police report?
	Like, wouldn't they still file a report even if they forwarded the FBI?
	Wouldn't officers in her neighborhood need to know that there were violent threats made up the person at this address?
	This is all very strange.
	Why was I, was I, not just me, but there are a couple of other people, were we the first people to contact Esparza about Anita's claims of unprofessionalism?
	Did all of these mainstream outlets completely ignore this situation?
	Those are questions.
	And I sent him those questions, and he just replied with the it's been forward to the FBI.
	So, yeah, there's a lot of weird stuff about this.
	Maybe it's because they need feminism, because the FBI doesn't care if a woman's being bomb-threated.
	I'm sure.
	Last time an officer said something slightly off to a feminist, we had a worldwide slut walk.
	So, you know, we're not going to get these answers, not from the SFPD.
	I think, like, you know what?
	They're cops.
	Esparza has more important things to talk about.
	He has car thefts, he has murders, and this is just some, you know, not, like, hey, if they're death threats, they should be prosecuted.
	I'm not saying they shouldn't be.
	But at the same time, it's internet BS propaganda.
	I'm not going to buck them anymore.
	I want to know, but let's wait for the freedom of information request.
	Yeah, I really think that's the best way because that's the official source.
	So it's, you know, to criticize it will lead them down a rabbit hole if they were to challenge it themselves.
	And why would they?
	You know, they're normally in favor of the official source on their side.
	In fact, I had a discussion with Rami Ismail a while ago on Twitter about how it was when Gamergate first started.
	I can't remember exactly what it was about, but he basically ended it by saying, Well, I don't know anything about it.
	Nobody said anything about it.
	And I was just like, everyone's saying things about it.
	What are you talking about?
	And then I realized that he meant no official publications had put an article out about it.
	And that was actually the first inkling I got that there was some kind of conspiring going on in the background.
	Because it's just like, you know, it was such a strange response.
	He didn't have his own opinion because someone else hadn't told him what his opinion was going to be.
	You know?
	Okay.
	There's a good question.
	Not a person says, what do we think of the escapist being DDOS?
	Yeah, I wanted to address this.
	Do we know who did it?
	This is the first I've heard of it, honestly.
	Like I said, I do not, there is so much going on.
	I don't know.
	I don't know everything.
	I think the escapist handling of Gamergate, I think it was very professional.
	Like, I don't expect them to get down on their knees and beg us all to love them.
	No, I'm not.
	I'm not.
	I don't.
	The social justice people demand BS apologies.
	They made a frank statement that was, listen, we could have handled it better, but we weren't complete dicks about it.
	And they've got Bob Chipman on it.
	You know what?
	So I can't believe that.
	Yeah, and he did get a little bit of a spanking.
	Yeah, Bob.
	He's a dick.
	He's a dick.
	He really is.
	But they handled it well.
	So I.
	Yeah, they did.
	As far as I'm concerned, one of the good guys.
	I'm still watching Yahtzee's videos.
	I might even watch some of the Bob's videos because I like his nerd stuff.
	Yeah, I do.
	That's what pisses me off about Bob so much, right?
	It's because he's.
	Did you see his thing on Kevin Smith about how Kevin Smith was someone who really knew their shit and then kind of disappointed everyone?
	Honestly, Bob is not that far away from the same thing.
	You know?
	He does not know anything about politics and he refuses to learn anything.
	I just wish you'd shut up about things that aren't video games.
	If he were amenable to discourse, it wouldn't bother me.
	But he has just signed up for one belief system, refuses to change it.
	And he won't even, like, if you tried to explain to him that ultimately this thing's going to eat you alive, he's he won't there's a lot of me to eat so I can bring it down to the washroom.
	You want to talk about this DDOS thing?
	Because again, I don't.
	First I've heard about it.
	Does anyone know who did it?
	Because I think that I would be inclined to think it was a social justice problem because it was, you know, they're the source in some way.
	Because, I mean, frankly, who in Gamergate would be interested in going after the escapist after the way they've responded?
	You know, so if anyone's got any information about that, I would really, really like to hear it.
	But I realize it's literally only just happened and there might not be any information to be had.
	So while I've got you guys on my own for a minute, I just want to talk to the trolls in the chat room.
	Guys, can you not see what's going on?
	You know, no one is trying to stop you from being dicks.
	It's just that no one agrees with you.
	That's the problem.
	You know?
	And that's the difference.
	You would stop people if we were going into your chat room and just saying these sort of things to you.
	You would stop it because you would find that unacceptable.
	And we don't.
	That's the point.
	It's fine to say what you want, but don't expect in the open marketplace of ideas that your ideas actually have any merits.
	If they don't, if they're so obviously disprovable, don't expect people to follow you and don't get all pissy about it when people are like, No, that's stupid.
	You're an idiot.
	Because you are stupid, and that or you that is stupid, and you are an idiot.
	You know, seriously.
	And you could stop being an idiot anytime.
	You could sit there and you could look at the you could look at the actual statistics of the things you're talking about and be honest about them and say, you know what, maybe we're pushing this too far.
	Maybe we're going too far.
	Maybe it's not exactly as we're misrepresenting it.
	You know, maybe, but you don't.
	You're fucking ideal logs and you're never going to change, and that's why you're going to lose this thing.
	That's why Gamergate has run so far out of the control of your side, and you have absolutely no idea what you're fucking doing.
	That's the problem.
	You have no idea.
	You are just such idiots.
	You have no idea what you're doing.
	And I'm not angry.
	You go ahead.
	You say what you like.
	I don't even have to be responding to this, but I want to just explain to you people because everyone else in the comments is like, look, you're talking shit lazy.
	You know what I mean?
	And I don't have to say anything because everyone can see it.
	They're intelligent thinking people and they can see what you're saying is nonsense.
	But sorry, I just wanted to say that because it doesn't piss me off that you say shit like this.
	It pisses me off that you can't see how you can't give anyone else's opinion any kind of credulity.
	You just can't.
	I love the homophobia from these people as well.
	All right, semi-related story, because it's funny.
	So I was at the bar with a co-worker.
	We had a long day.
	We were working, just sitting down.
	It was a classy restaurant.
	Not super expensive, but, you know, sort of place that you have linen, not, you know.
	And this giggle of girls comes in with some stupid charity that, like, they don't even know what the charity is.
	It's just an excuse to wear bright day cool colors.
	And the one girl has, she's wearing jeans with the crotch cut out of her jeans.
	Just like, hey, give me attention.
	And it's, you know, it's like I'm not in some dive bar right now.
	You know, if you walk into a dive bar like that, I wouldn't care.
	But it's like you're invading this place and you're doing this narcissistic charity garbage.
	And then she sees a look at disgust on my face.
	So she comes over and does this bum wiggle in front of my table.
	And I say to her, Babe, your HPV is showing.
	Oh, the human Papillamo virus.
	I'm not aware of what that is.
	Okay, it's an STD.
	Sorry.
	This is all turbulent I'm not familiar with.
	And so she flips out and starts calling my co-worker and I gay and calling us poo staff.
	There's nothing a woman hates more than rejection.
	It's all the power and you can't use it.
	Well, so I follow up with honey, you look like you'd be terrible in bed.
	Because that's clearly the only asset she has.
	She doesn't have a personality.
	She just has two holes down there that you can use.
	But the gay, it's like these supposed social justice warriors, their first thing is to call you gay.
	What the hell is wrong with these people?
	I don't know.
	And the Gamergate thing, the thing that, hey, you're right, they often do.
	But this Gamergate thing, the first thing they started calling people is nerds.
	And it's just like, are you guys fucking stupid?
	Yes, they are all nerds.
	Everyone knows they're nerds.
	That's why we're doing this, you know?
	That thing, yes, that's 556 or 223 in American.
	It was M16AR-15 variant.
	Looks like you've got the left drift on.
	Oh, God.
	Yeah, my breathing was totally off for that.
	I was rusty as all hell because it's been a few years since I last fired.
	And it was a rental that was not zeroed for me.
	So I'm actually a marksman.
	I have a six-inch grouping at 300 yards when I'm in shape and when it's my rifle, not a cheesy rental with a laser sight that's dying.
	But that's my 30th birthday, so since I'm too old to get a tattoo, I went to shoot some gats.
	Yeah, that's a perfectly good thing to do.
	People keep asking me if I support UKIP.
	I don't know.
	Do they have politicians?
	Because if they do, the answer is probably no.
	You know what?
	Not British, barely follow it, but the UKIP seem to be the only people speaking sense.
	That's true, though.
	That is actually true.
	Sorry, God, sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt.
	Oh, I was going to say, there's a brilliant article by who's I don't want to be a jerk, but the fat atheist who died fairly recently, Hitchens.
	Oh, yeah.
	Wordsmith, even though I think his atheism is a little bit philosophically simplistic.
	But his brother wrote a great article about, oh, and Sargon's temporarily offline.
	He'll be back in a minute.
	His brother wrote a great article about how they're pushing for all this social change and whatnot back in the 60s, and how he realized that it's the upper-class people pushing for this, and the upper-class people who can all move to gated communities or to neighborhoods too expensive for most people.
	And what's happening is they're getting a huge influx of immigrants that we're not talking about immigrants that want to become British people, but immigrants that have no interest in learning the language, immigrants that are fleeing war in their own country, and they move into the working-class neighborhoods.
	And so you get these older retired folk that were honest, hard-working, patriotic groups their whole life are now suddenly living in Mogadishu.
	And UKIP is the only one saying their voice because the stupid, dumb blue-collars, their lack of fashion and their hamburgers, nobody cares what they think.
	But the blue-collar is the lifeblood of a country, not the intelligentsian, not the nobility.
	It's the blue-collar workers that make up your country.
	And if you're screwing those people over, you're screwing yourself out of a country.
	Yeah, I only caught the end of that because my connection drops.
	But that I do agree with.
	Yeah, so I don't know about UKIP as a party overall, but they're the only one interesting issue.
	There's a unique problem in British politics, which is anyone who advocates for Britain is a racist by default.
	If you think that you should do the best for Britain, then you are probably a racist in the eyes of the mainstream media.
	And you've got to work very, very hard for people not to call you racist.
	And it's not even just the media, though.
	It's more about what the public think.
	It's so weird that all you'll see on Facebook being shared by dozens of your friends are these anti-UKIP memes.
	And I'm not saying they're not funny, because a lot of them are quite funny.
	But it's just like there's this automatic assumption that you can never get past, that you must be a racist if you're against unlimited EU immigration and stuff like that.
	And it's just like, no, we're talking about numbers here, people.
	We're talking about infrastructure that was built in the 70s.
	And we've seen something like a 20-30% population increase.
	It's not been upgraded properly.
	It's not been, you know, London's sewer system was blocked by tampons the other day, one of the other days, you know, a year ago or something.
	And it was just, it was disgusting.
	You know, like sanitary pads and stuff.
	And it's just like, it's because it just wasn't designed to deal with the number of people that it's dealing with.
	And so, you know, unlimited immigration, it's got real world tangible effects on the country.
	It's you know, it's it's a problem.
	And, you know, the UKIP want to deals deal with that.
	You know, no one's suggesting deportations or anything.
	They're just suggesting no more immigration.
	And I think that's a really reasonable thing to say, given the current state that we're in.
	So to characterize them instantly as racist when a perfectly good I mean, like again, it's don't attribute to malice what could be easily attributed to either a good reason or stupidity.
	And in this case, I think it's a good reason.
	You know, I don't, I really don't see the need for it.
	And just sorry, I know I'm going on, but there are quite a few things I want to say about you, KIB, just to make sure that everyone understands how I feel about it.
	I'm going to make some coffee.
	You keep going.
	My microphone.
	Absolutely.
	No problem.
	One of the things.
	Yeah, London Sewer System is a sexist.
	Yeah, exactly.
	You know, reality has got an anti-woman bias or an anti-feminist bias, should I say, be more accurate.
	But yeah, one of the things is like, I can't remember my point now.
	God damn it.
	And now I'm on my own and no one can remind me of my point.
	Shit, where was I going with this?
	You can...
	Oh, yeah.
	The people that Britain sends to the EU are the funniest people around.
	Not because of anything that they are, in particular, but more what they do, I find.
	Because all of the continental countries send really positive, Euro-friendly politicians.
	And all Britain does is vote for the people who hate Europe the most and then send them over to Europe to tell the Europeans just how much they dislike being in Europe.
	And yet we never get to have a vote to leave.
	And I find that hilarious and the most typically British thing ever.
	And so when you've got Nigel Farage or Daniel Hannan, who I have to say, Daniel Hannan is someone I respect immensely.
	He's an incredibly intelligent man.
	Do you mean patriot Hannan?
	Yes, absolutely.
	He's an English patriot through and through, and there is no way to paint him as a racist.
	You know, he is such an intelligent man, and he's got such great oratory skills.
	I love him.
	I absolutely love him.
	So the race thing, like, this is another example of these two extremes that are both idiotic.
	Like, if race doesn't actually exist, like, if there is no biological difference between white and black people, for instance, then I can't actually be racist since they don't exist.
	They're just people.
	It's a snake eating its own tail.
	But then you get to the other extreme, which is produced by the first, like, racism is 100%.
	you get the other extreme of race is a monolith.
	And I'll tell you, so I'm playing Assassin's Creed.
	And what really strikes me about that is that every era has had its racial tensions.
	You know, like Europe had racial tensions between the different groups in Europe.
	Like, Germany is a new idea.
	It was a bunch of different tribes up until 200 years ago.
	203 years ago.
	I think the best way to describe it is more ethnic tensions.
	Because you might have several ethnicities in a race.
	You've got the sort of Germanic and then you've got the sort of Mediterranean ethnicities.
	And they're both considered white, aren't they?
	And yeah, it's more like ethnicity.
	It wasn't the race was far less important, really, than the kind of race that they were.
	Like the one side, like the this is why I just you know, like there, it's not a monolith.
	There are so many edge cases, you know, that you can't like the whole idea of, for instance, being a British racial purist.
	Well, what's a racially pure Brit?
	You know, there's no such thing.
	It bleeds, the races bleed into one another, but at the same time, it doesn't mean that there's no such thing as a difference.
	And a country does need to preserve its culture, its heritage, values.
	It needs to be a nation, not just a bureaucracy full of corporate human resources.
	Well, this is actually something I find quite interesting because I do find generally that using race is actually quite unhelpful.
	I mean, I would think it would fly in the face of evolution if groups of humans that were separated for thousands of years didn't have some kind of evolutionary difference, no matter how small, you know, it literally just, you know, it could be a tiny, tiny difference.
	But I would find it strange if there wasn't.
	You know, if people living in Ethiopia had the same sort of genetic result through the evolutionary process as people living in Alaska, you know, the native Alaskans, I would find that very odd.
	So to say that there's no difference in the races, I think, would be weird.
	But I think that the difference in races is probably primarily physiological.
	And I do realize that the brain is part of a human body.
	But I don't necessarily think there's any.
	I think that what goes on in the brain is often very much shaped by cultural factors.
	In fact, I think almost all of it, I mean, there's obviously a starting point.
	I remember reading that Einstein's brain was kept in a jar for 50 years under some guy's bed, and then they took it out and actually analyzed it, and it had twice as many, it was twice as dense with, I don't know, some kind of nodes.
	I'm not a scientist.
	You know, whatever nodes that people have in their brain that connect and send electrical signals, it was twice as dense as the average person.
	So it's a good chance that I think that Einstein started from a good position because he was naturally gifted in this area.
	And it's just biology that's done this.
	But I also think that anyone can be taught to think.
	And teaching people how to think, literally just the steps of rational inquiry allow almost anyone to reach a much higher level of understanding of almost everything.
	I would agree that, like, not everybody's going to be able to read deep philosophical works or quantum mechanics, but everybody can be taught to think.
	You don't have to be a genius computer programmer to understand basic one plus one equals two logic trains.
	I think you'll love this.
	This was posted by Slate Star Codex, and it's, let's flip this on its head, on its head, like, uh...
	Kind of our understanding right now of human nature, and it doesn't matter if you're on the left or the right.
	That biology is fixed, but that sociology can change people.
	Absolutely.
	And improve them.
	That's the thing.
	Well, the right says that biology is fixed, we can't help people.
	And the left says we can reprogram everybody to be whatever we want.
	What if it's the exact opposite, he said?
	Because if you change a person's environment, biologically, if you give them a better diet, then they will have larger brains.
	They will be healthier, happier people that are less prone to violence.
	And in fact, if we fed prisoners better food, there would be less violence in prison.
	That's been a demonstrated fact.
	I just want to interject there, right?
	Just to give an extra thing.
	I need to look this up.
	I really can't remember who said it, but there was an ancient Greek philosopher, I think he was a philosopher, who said, look, right, if you've got a young man who is suffering from, you know, just he, you know, he's angry and violent all the time, bring him to me and I will change his diet.
	And this guy, his career was literally as a dietitian for young, angry men and to make them more passive.
	You know, I'm not surprised there are studies that back that up.
	You know, I'm absolutely not surprised because it was demonstrable from the results that he had, clearly, you know.
	What it boils down to is from an ego-psych perspective, if you're starving, you're going to die anyway, so you might as well try and kill that guy and steal his food.
	Whereas if you're fat and healthy, why would you go fight somebody else when you've got everything already?
	Sociologically, what if there is a particular model of the healthy human mind and relationships, like having loving parents and overcoming challenges but not being beaten, etc., that you can get wrong.
	You can gaslight somebody and make them go crazy and damaged, but you can't change them for the better.
	There's a best way of the...
	So sociology is the rock that we can't change, but if we start working on biology, and like biology would be getting people better diets.
	It would be supporting, like in the black ghetto, it would be supporting the family unit as opposed to creating economic policies that encourage single motherhood.
	What if those biological things are the way we change the world?
	Because that sounds brilliant to me.
	I definitely think there's a lot to be said for a lot of the points you're making here.
	I've said it before, and I will say it again, that the most emotionally balanced and healthy people I know come from two parent households where the parents just, you know, they're a good match for each other.
	And so it's really one of those things that it really annoys me when people say that fathers are unnecessary and things like that, because I've seen from personal experience people who have grown up without fathers, strong father figures, who take care of their masculine needs, as it were, as kids.
	And they've turned into right Hellions and they've been awful.
	Whereas, you know, I've seen the reverse and they've been consistently great people, really caring, empathetic, responsible people who go on to join the system and operate happily within the system because they're healthy, responsible people.
	And so I really think there is something to be said for what has been the standard for thousands of years of humanity as maybe it was the maybe it was that way because it was useful and not just because it was a social construct.
	You know what?
	And think about the past, like the past few thousand years of history, how much, like sociologically, not that much has changed.
	Obviously, there's different cultures, different empires, rises.
	It's in practically the same way, though, yeah.
	Whereas the big difference between 1800 and 800 BC, the biggest difference is that we managed to tame what the wild, like, natural world to create more abundance, more food, more luxury for everybody.
	Yeah, I think that what we're seeing at the moment is absolutely indicative of whenever these set of circumstances come together.
	I think that if the Romans hadn't had slaves and had developed steam power when Hiero of Alexandria invented it, then we would have had the Industrial Revolution probably around 10 AD.
	Yeah, 10 AD.
	No.
	Yeah, the year 1000.
	Sorry.
	Slate.
	Yeah, we would probably have had it about around then, if not earlier.
	And then, you know, the people 800 years ago would be in the position that we're in right now.
	And it would probably be largely the same.
	I mean, it would be different ethnic groups, probably, but it would be a very similar sort of world that we would live in.
	I really do think so.
	I think that everything that's really happened is just a natural consequence of human nature under certain conditions.
	And the thing is, one of the things I've always found from reading history is that human nature is just always the same.
	The motivation people have for taking certain actions is always the same.
	It's just a human constant.
	People or certain kinds of people act in certain kinds of way in certain kinds of situations.
	And there are lots of different people.
	There are lots of different situations.
	There are lots of ways to act.
	But a lot of them are very common, and a lot of them are very easy to predict.
	And this is why I'm turning into a bit of a doommonger on my channel.
	It's just like, look, guys, I can really see some bad stuff ahead.
	Because if you look at this, this, and this, it looks like it's the same thing.
	You know, I think we were talking about this before the show.
	That revolutions aren't nice.
	You know, like I was on a different podcast.
	Like, that's the nice thing.
	There's some people that are just hankering for a race war.
	You know, like the people are so angry at blacks all the time.
	It's like, dude, race wars aren't nice.
	They're bloody terrible.
	It's women getting their babies cut out of their uteruses with machetes.
	Yeah.
	You know, any kind of conflict like that is.
	Any kind of civil war, any kind of internal faction fighting, it is to the death.
	That's the thing.
	It's to the absolute destruction of one faction or another.
	Yes.
	And like, yeah, if you talk about the Tea Party or Occupy Wall Street, a big revolution, getting rid of the evil bankers, it's not going to be pleasant.
	You know, we're all like, it might be in a hundred years that we're all better off for it, but for our lifetimes, if there's a revolution in our lifetime, you know, get used to eating ramen noodle for the rest of your life, because that's what's going to happen to you if you're alive.
	Yeah, and even if you're not part of the group that's going to be the victim of the revolution, everybody's the victim of the revolution.
	The things you'll see, the things that will happen, they will stay with you.
	Revolutions are just so awful.
	They are so much more awful than normal conventional wars.
	Because in most conventional wars, yeah, there are atrocities committed, but they stop eventually.
	They eventually stop and people say, okay, enough killing.
	A lot of people have died.
	You surrender, Germany, don't you?
	And Germany says, oh, God, yes, I surrender.
	And then everyone continues.
	In a revolution, if the First World War, Second World War had been revolutions, there would be no more Germans.
	what it would be like.
	The killing went on for 40 years.
	Yeah.
	Thousands and thousands of aristocrats were executed.
	And not just aristocrats, okay?
	Because the people connected to them, yeah, absolutely.
	Sorry, this is your provisional government.
	The first government that took over, and it's been a while since I read it, you know, but the first government that took over after they killed the king, those guys got killed.
	Yeah, it's crazy.
	It's a time of absolute, and it's always absolute paranoia as well.
	You know, it's like communists hiding behind every bush.
	I read somewhere that at the height of the Cold War, the Americans thought that there were more communists in America than there were in the Soviet Union.
	You know?
	And it's just like they had accounted for something like 1,300 communists for every citizen in the United States.
	And there are only 1,700, one every thousand seven hundred in the Soviet Union.
	And it's just like, you guys are crazy.
	That is like insane levels of paranoia.
	You know, the CIA, before the Soviet Union collapsed, the CIA was pumping out all this stuff about how the Soviets are doing so well and all this sort of stuff.
	And then they collapsed and everyone's like, oh, or they were dying.
	We weren't sure.
	And it's those sort of levels of paranoia that are bred, and then it just spills out into open violence.
	And because it all comes from a place of fear and frustration, it's just the worst thing ever.
	I can't stress how much reform is needed before it comes to blood.
	Because when it comes to blood, it's really going to come.
	I mean, imagine how long is it until one of the cops at an event like Ferguson, one of these fucking arrogant macho dickhead cops, shoots a protester in the face.
	How long is it going to be?
	You know?
	And then what happens?
	Honestly, I really think people need to start thinking about the way that things are being done.
	Because it's on the cards.
	I mean, I'm thinking, I'm doing a video on this, and I'll have the research done for the video.
	But I can't remember what the name of the massacre was, but it was in an Irish town where the British cavalry basically massacred an entire mob that was protesting, probably for legitimate reasons.
	And this was one of the defining things on the way to the Free State of Ireland in 1922.
	It was things like this that was just causing such internal dissent.
	And honestly, how long before these cops got massacre people?
	How long?
	You know, there's one horror story I read called The Day the EBT carts stop because this whole social welfare system has created this giant dependence community, like largely in the black ghettos.
	And it's going to start off with all the blacks that are relying upon this government money, they go and raid the local grocery store.
	And then they stop supplying food to the grocery stores.
	And so then they start going further afield.
	Eventually there's a riot.
	A bunch of people are driving to the office in traffic and there's a riot that spills over to the highway.
	They're going to be pulling people out of their cars and killing them.
	The cops will not have a sufficient response time to do anything about this.
	Like the you know, blacks are not stupid people.
	They've been they are outsmarting the cops with the Twitter nonsense that goes on anytime there's polar bear hunting, at which point vigilanteism is going to start in the white neighborhoods.
	And the cops who can't do anything up left about the black criminals will start going after the white vigilantes, at which point the white vigilantes turn on the cops and you know, you write the ending to that story and you tell me there's a happy ending.
	Maybe we should be seeking a solution.
	That's my big problem with the so many white naturalists just love hating black people.
	And it's like, your hatred of black people is going to wind up with a bloody war zone, kids dying in the street, mass starvation, and maybe we should be finding a bloody solution about this instead of just screaming racist all the time.
	Still there, Sargon?
	All right, Sargon appears off air right now.
	And I guess, oh, are you back?
	I am back.
	Sorry about that.
	It's my bloody internet connection.
	Could you use that?
	Oh, you said social welfare and then mine cut out.
	Oh, sorry, it's like the story of the EBT cards.
	Basically, my rant, it really pisses me off when people call me racist, because if I talk about race, it's trying to stop a race war.
	It's trying to smack some common sense into people that it's not okay to hate blacks, but it's also not okay to pretend that blacks are saints and there's no problems in the ghetto, because we are headed towards a very bad place with all of this, and we need to start finding some solutions rather than just political grandstanding.
	I think it's also important to remember that I think that in America, and I'm not trying to generalize, I don't know, but it seems that black is an identity as well.
	It's not just a race.
	That's why you've got like white guys who are pretending to joining gang culture and that sort of thing.
	Again, I'm no expert on any of this, but it just seems like it's an identity as well as a race.
	It's a very toxic one.
	TJ Sodemeyer, he struggles against this all the time, where he's trying to create a positive black community, not a dependent one.
	And I don't agree with the guy on everything.
	But he gets called a coon and an Uncle Tom all the time for doing this.
	For trying to create a respectable black culture, effectively.
	Exactly.
	For trying to find a positive solution.
	It's a social justice warriors all over again.
	It's dividing everything into camps and this manipulation, this simplistic thinking, the lies, the profiteering that is headed towards a nasty climax eventually.
	Yeah, I think that fundamentally, you know, even if everyone can't agree on what the causes of this is, but we're on a trajectory that is heading to a bad place.
	And it's probably a lot of things that are causing it.
	You know, it's probably not just one thing.
	I mean, I can't imagine it'd just be one thing.
	It's probably literally the cumulative effect of all of these things being true to a measure, being true to a certain degree.
	You know, there probably is truth in each statement that everyone is making.
	So rather than declaring that everyone has the absolute truth, why can we not just look at it and go, okay, all of these things probably are contributing to this awful trajectory that we're on.
	And it's crazy because we shouldn't be on this kind of trajectory.
	You know, the Pope the other day was like, oh, we're in the beginning of World War III.
	It's like, oh, that's fucking brilliant, isn't it?
	You know, that's just amazing.
	We live in a type of such, we know we absolutely are.
	I agree.
	But when it's coming from the Pope, you know.
	I can't believe the Pope said that.
	I really like that guy.
	Oh, yeah, he's great.
	Don't get me started on the Republicans that keep saying he's a socialist because he says that our economic system is screwed up.
	It's horribly screwed.
	We're a bunch of psychopaths that screw one another over.
	Like, you know, all right, black kids in the ghetto murder each other for sneakers.
	We rat each other out and manipulate and destroy the environment so that we can get a new SUV.
	You know, it's like I'm a capitalist, all right?
	I am so right-wing that everything I say is hate speech.
	But the corporate world is messed up, it's sick, it's perverse.
	I think that's actually why I actually despise the social justice warrior so much, because I really, really do try to remain as centrist as possible.
	But I am pretty liberal in a lot of regards.
	You know, I think the gays should marry and do whatever.
	Just do whatever you want as long as you leave other people alone, you know?
	And so I can be surprisingly liberal in a lot of regards, I think, that people are very much surprised when I am.
	And yeah, I'm always finding myself agreeing with Fox News a lot these days because all Fox News seems to be asking for is the right to just be left alone and to not be slandered as the world's worst people.
	And I'm sure they're not the world's worst people.
	I'm really sure they're not.
	I'm sure they're just, you know, I'm sure they think of themselves as just right-wing, conservative, rugged individuals who, you know, through hard work and democracy got to where they are.
	And they want everyone to have that opportunity.
	And the thing is, and there are plenty of people on the right who are saying, look, the economic system isn't working.
	Not everyone is having that opportunity.
	I think that's the fundamental difference.
	The left is saying the economic system is evil because people don't have opportunities.
	And the other is saying the economic system is broken because it doesn't have opportunities.
	And yet they can't come together just on the lack of opportunities point.
	Honestly, that drives me crazy.
	And you know what?
	And I really, really hope that this again, this has been happening everywhere, but the people, like the progressive stack, the social justice is just the latest form of it.
	Oh, absolutely.
	PC is just the very worst.
	I wouldn't call them smart, but they're cunning.
	And they have not had such a big chink in their armor before.
	And I just hope to God we can come together over this.
	One of the things I'm loving about this, Sargon, is that I'm talking to people that I never would have talked to before.
	And there's people with different politics from mine who realizing, oh, Davis isn't a bunch of hate speech.
	I'm realizing, you know what?
	They're not a bunch of bleeding-heart liberal idiots.
	And we're, like you said, everybody has a little piece of the puzzle.
	I don't claim to have the perfect solution.
	These people aren't claiming to either.
	It's the manipulators, the social justice warriors.
	They claim to have the solution.
	And it's going to be the death of all of us.
	I totally agree.
	I really disagree with the trajectory they try to put civilization on.
	I can't stand it.
	It's just the most anti-meritocratic thing I can imagine.
	And just no, as soon as you mention the word quotas to me, I'm done.
	No, we're not having quotas because quotas are immediately not the best people for the job.
	By default, I can't assume that they're the best people.
	Whereas in any other system, you really can, because the cream always rises to the top, unless it's specifically being prevented from rising.
	You know what?
	This is another funny thing.
	Back when I was in university, I used to, like, I was a free market capitalist.
	I was libertarian-ish, socially progressive, whatever.
	But I thought social justice was a good thing.
	And And it's because, well, partly it's the duty of the young is to rebel against all the stupid institutions of their parents and point out all the flaws, and then to try and build better institutions and then become the fuddy-duddies that their kids rebel against.
	And you know what?
	Institutional violence, which is kind of a BS term, but institutional violence, the idea that there's institutions in society that aren't perfect that need to be reformed.
	It's true that no institution is perfect.
	We have yet to build a utopia, and the things can always be better.
	But social justice, it's just funny how it sounds like such a nice thing.
	It's co-opted the term.
	You know, it was always economic, wasn't it?
	I'm not actually an expert on the origins of social justice.
	Oh, it's been poisoned from day one.
	What it is, it's about perceived harm rather than measurable harm.
	The first guy, John Rawls, did this whole philosophical work on justice.
	He's an ethicist that works for a university, and you can guess how much you can trust him.
	It was like these are the people that start tossing in words like dignity as a human right.
	Like the guy that Jordan was debating, what did he say?
	Yeah, emotional violence.
	You talk about those nasty tweets Anita was receiving and calling them emotionally violent.
	Yeah, when he said that, I was quite outraged.
	You can't measure that.
	And you are a histrionic.
	It's not violence.
	It might be something else that you might want to say is harassment or assault or something like that, but it's not violence.
	You can measure violence.
	Like, a bloody nose is a bloody nose.
	You know, like a punch to the face is a punch to the face.
	Like that is assault, black and white.
	If you're a histrionic baby that cries over everything, then you're going to screw like then what you consider emotional violence is going to be different from what a sane and healthy human being considers emotional violence.
	Exactly.
	It's entirely subjective.
	Entirely.
	You know, and it's totally unquantifiable.
	And you can't ever really prove it.
	And you can never disprove it.
	And so, you know, what are you going to do?
	You can't run a system like that.
	You cannot run a system like that.
	Go to social justice on Wikipedia.
	One of the first names mentioned is John Rawls.
	Go look at his book on justice.
	And I'm not saying he hasn't.
	Listen, these people always have a couple of good points.
	Exactly.
	Everyone does.
	Everyone always has some good points.
	Otherwise, they wouldn't be making any points at all, you know.
	Well, and you can't have a pure lie.
	A lie always needs to contain truth.
	Like, evil is not a thing in and of itself.
	It's a perversion of good.
	And I've seen some of the most evil stuff I've seen was 99.9% some of the most brilliant, deepest wisdom I've ever seen.
	Like one little twisted bit that turns into complete poison that destroys lives.
	Yeah, no, no, I totally agree.
	And that's always the most dangerous form of ideology as well.
	It really is.
	And one thing that I never, I've never believed that the ends justify the means.
	I've never have.
	Because, you know, if you have to kill, say, a million people to form a state, then what are the eyes of the people who form that state going to look like?
	They're going to look sunken and hollowed out because they've seen a million people die at their own hands.
	The ends don't justify the means.
	They don't create what you're trying to create.
	At least not for several generations afterwards.
	And even then, is it really, you know, the people at the time who are being eradicated, they're never going to be the ones who think this is okay.
	And it's just obviously wrong.
	To take wrong action is to be in the wrong, and it is to be the sort of person who takes wrong action.
	So even if the results are a positive thing, you've still been insanely selfish by taking several wrong actions to get to these results that are good for you and maybe other people, but primarily you.
	And that's in I can't abide by it.
	I really can't.
	I completely, completely agree.
	And that's the thing.
	We cannot stoop to their level fighting these people.
	There's a yeah, this is another thing we were kind of tossing back and forth before the show.
	The rules for radicals by Alinsky.
	I'm planning to do a multi-video review of it, analyzing it, well, first pointing out evil it is, but then analyzing it as what if rather than a manual for how to take over and destroy Western civilization, you look at it as this is how politics works in a mass democracy where every retard has the vote and we've got mass communications like TV and radio.
	Facebook has put me off democracy.
	Now I know what the idiots think.
	I don't approve.
	Exactly.
	You know, like that, yeah, your Facebook feed, that's that's not even what the voters look like because you have smarter friends than average.
	Like everybody listening, you guys have smarter friends than average.
	And trust me, I can't shout, Swindon.
	But sorry, the methodology of Alinsky is just so psychopathic and manipulative.
	And it's ends justifying the means.
	And it ultimately just a death spiral of destruction with no positivity coming out of it.
	And the big problem with the right is that they've either complete idiots or they embrace the same sort of nonsense.
	And so they become just as bad.
	Yeah, no, no, I totally agree.
	I mean, the right, you know, Bush with Iraq, you know, it seemed like a good idea, I assume, to them.
	And therefore, they thought that, you know, well, at least it'll be, you know, the end that we're looking for.
	Well, I mean, it may well have just been self-motivated by profit for Halliburton, but, you know, it obviously doesn't justify itself because of the number of deaths.
	And the social justice warriors are exactly the same.
	They will say and do whatever they can to make social justice to put it in control, to give it to subvert, to lie, to manipulate, to do, you know, to dox, to bully, to shout down, to insult.
	They will literally do everything they can to achieve their end.
	And I'm thinking, wow, that is so fucking immoral because I wouldn't do 90% of the shit that they do to someone else so I could win in the end.
	I just wouldn't.
	Honestly, I don't know I'm sounding like some moralistic prick, but frankly, I am a moralistic prick.
	And I'm actually outraged because these days it really pisses me off that they all claim that they've got these great high and mighty principles, but they don't act on them.
	They don't act in them.
	And if you don't act on your principles, if you don't stand for your principles, then you don't stand for anything.
	And nobody stands for anything.
	The people in charge, the mainstream media, these social justice warriors, the people who are suddenly in control of everything, have got no goddamn principles.
	And that really bothers me.
	Really bothers me.
	This is the story that we want to tell with this documentary: is that these people are so vile.
	There is so much just evil, nasty stuff that they do.
	And we want to tell that story.
	We want to put this story where people can see this.
	People, don't be so gullible.
	These people are monsters.
	And this is not an exaggeration.
	It is documented fact.
	And we want to put this together into a story that most people can understand.
	We shouldn't say monsters because people will hear you say that and say, oh my God, right, that's a quote I'm taking out of context.
	Because I think they won't understand that we're having a relaxed conversation.
	And it's more of a discussion of ideas and speculation and conjecture a lot of the time.
	But it's informed.
	It's informed conjecture.
	I mean, I'm long past worrying about that because I watch videos and they can't understand complex ideas.
	They can't understand a sentence with the comma in it.
	And they watched a quote mine.
	Yeah, that is true.
	But I just want to...
	I just want it on record that I've...
	Getting people fired from their job.
	The guy that started the Not Your Shield, he got fired.
	Or he's getting fired at the end of a week.
	Why?
	That is such a worthwhile thing to have done.
	Honestly, the Not Your Shield hashtag cemented Gamergate as being in the right.
	The gamers themselves are saying, look, we're not racist.
	And to prove it, the people who weren't white men said, look, this is us speaking to you, social justice warriors, directly.
	You are in the wrong.
	They are in the right.
	And this is how the outside world can understand that.
	Sorry, I didn't mean to go off from one.
	here's the insanity of it.
	If this guy had done, if he was like some scumbag that started accusing his boss of being racist, whatever, so he could get a promotion.
	Like if he were that sort of scumbag, then he could get away with that.
	But saying that don't exploit my black identity gets him fired.
	It's insane how the people who are outside of this can't just instantly identify them as being snakes.
	Because I think they are vipers.
	I think they absolutely are.
	They will take any action that profits themselves, no matter how harmful to the people.
	Just for dissent.
	Just for dissent.
	Don't underestimate the mob mentality, Inc. Penification says.
	Well, exactly.
	Exactly.
	This is what we are trying to do.
	You know what?
	The mob is dumb, but they're a particular kind of dumb.
	If you show them that, you know what, these people are getting people fired.
	These people are launching these unethical attacks on people.
	These people are engaged in nepotism, in collusion, and hypocrisy.
	If you show them this, we can get them up.
	That is why they are terrified of this documentary, because they are vipers, and it's not hard to show that.
	No, I totally agree.
	And one thing that what I want everyone to really take away from this is that you guys are just two guys doing it.
	And it might be helpful if people could help you just physically with research, with information, leads, places to go.
	Because I suspect that you guys would strongly welcome that, wouldn't you?
	Oh, absolutely.
	We've been getting amazing help thus far.
	Our supporters are absolutely awesome.
	And thank you to everybody that is supporting it, either financially or morally in spirit.
	It's been great.
	And you know what?
	Jordan and I are both in positions right now that, You know what?
	You can't attack me.
	What, you're going to call me a racist?
	I don't care.
	You know, I don't have a job.
	Well, yeah, I do a job.
	Right now.
	I do you too.
	At the moment, you're a documentary maker filmed by public grassroots support.
	You know, that's what you are at the moment, you know?
	And that's anything they say against you can just be used against them because this is the kind of hate speech they'll use.
	And it is hate speech.
	Everything they say is hate speech.
	It is straight out of high school, man.
	Yeah, it's kiddie.
	Exactly.
	It's kitty.
	The bullies are making fun of they're pushing around and bullying the nerd group, the video game developers, the video game industry.
	They're trying to push those people around.
	And even though I play video games, I'm not a game developer.
	I'm not part of that field.
	I'm kind of coming in from left field.
	And it's like, no, stop pushing these people around.
	You guys are bullies.
	And now they're attacking.
	Like, you know what?
	We can take it.
	We can be the voices that get our names smeared through the media.
	We can take it.
	Somebody needs to take it.
	And we can do this, and we can just send it right back at them.
	Yeah, no, I agree that someone does.
	And I think that this is a project that's important.
	I think that, like you said, it is absolutely important to have something that isn't on YouTube that's out there that can be referenced because it'll be in IMDb so people will be able to link to it.
	It will exist and the mere existence of it will create a hiccup in the narrative.
	It will show that there was a dissenting opinion in the narrative.
	So did you catch any of that?
	Were you grabbing it?
	Oh, yes, yes, I thought all of it.
	Yeah, no, that's cool.
	So yeah, that exists as an important thing in itself.
	Their narrative is extremely fragile as well.
	Like their narrative, it requires that you ignore the evidence of your own lying eyes.
	Every day you see stuff that doesn't agree with social justice.
	And so you go back to your professor and say, well, what about this fact?
	And then they come with this elaborate, they come up with a conspiracy theory explaining why the facts don't match the reality.
	And it's fragile.
	It's very fragile.
	And if you hit it in the right place, it shatters like glass.
	I agree.
	And one of the things that I find is, yeah, are you going to believe me or you're lying eyes?
	And I think that applies most.
	It's not even for the people who are learning social justice in universities.
	It's more for the general public, just to say, look, listen to the way they talk to people.
	Is that civil?
	Would you accept that in civil discourse?
	Would you assume that person has something to hide and an agenda under their sleeve?
	These people, you don't treat people like this if you're not trying to hide something.
	You just don't do that.
	It's insane.
	It's in no way any kind of civil discourse.
	And that in itself makes me suspicious of them from the outset.
	What I wanted to say is what I think that if I were to give advice to your project, because I'm in no way involved, just in case anyone was curious, this is the first time we've ever spoken, just apart from about a 10-minute quick introductory chat before we started the live stream.
	And I've never contributed any money to the project.
	Not that I wouldn't.
	It's just that I think in the wake of the Gamergate thing and their Patreon, I personally won't be funding any other content creators for anything.
	And two reasons.
	One, I'm a cheap bastard and I don't have very much money.
	But secondly, ethical issues.
	I want to make a very clear statement that I am not like these people.
	I am not suddenly going to start giving money to people just as moral support because no good comes from that.
	That would be direct financial interest that influence I would have over someone.
	And I don't want people thinking that I'm trying to get that.
	I want this to be a war of ideas and I want to fight it on my ideas alone because I think they might have some merit.
	Well, I think anybody that's, and we should make sure of this, but I don't think anybody that's appearing in the documentary is supporting it financially, and they shouldn't be.
	Yeah.
	Like that's exactly.
	That is an ethical violation.
	Absolutely.
	We are trying to be squeaky clear.
	I'm not saying we're perfect, okay?
	We're fallible human beings.
	But we are really trying to hold ourselves to a very high standard with all of this.
	Yeah, that's actually the impression that I think everyone gets from this side of the argument, no matter who you are and where you come from.
	This has become, I really think it's become a point of principle.
	You know, these people will do what they want, and it's not right to just do what you want, because that often comes at the expense of others.
	And yeah, I agree.
	If someone involved in the documentary is, you know, who is going to benefit from the documentary is also putting money into the documentary.
	I mean, I'm not saying you necessarily have to stop doing that, but I really think that should be made very public.
	Definitely make a public statement so you can go on record by saying yes, so people can know that you have a vested interest in the documentary.
	That doesn't automatically make what you're saying false or anything like that.
	It just means that people have to be aware of it.
	It's about transparency, you know.
	But yeah, so what I would recommend, my advice as someone who is just a concerned citizen, would be, and I'm sure that this is all stuff that you already do, so please don't assume that I think that you're not doing any of these things.
	I just wanted, you know, just to add to the discussion, really.
	And yeah, and again, I'm sure you're going to be able to say, look, we do all that, obviously.
	But it's more for, you know, and if you do, that's great, because this is stuff that people can take away, I guess.
	But yeah, so I would recommend the way I'd do it, I suppose, would be to maybe open up a forum somewhere or something like that and do it entirely publicly with your information.
	And I know that sounds risky.
	I know that sounds crazy.
	But all of the information I think you're going to use is already public knowledge for us.
	I think our side is already well aware of all of this information.
	Or at least most of it, at least the beginning of the leads, and you'll be revealing, filling out these, filling below the surface, and showing everyone where the roots go and what that I imagine.
	And so I think keeping all of this as a matter of public record as you're doing it would be a useful thing because then people can add or suggest things into the narrative that fit and that you may have missed or something like that.
	And I'm not saying that you have to do this, but I think it would definitely help in general.
	It would definitely be, it would allow people to know that you're going to do a good job.
	Because I think at the moment people think that you're untested.
	They don't know anything you've done so far.
	And so I think that if you can be the more transparent you can be and show you're doing a good job, because I think you probably are.
	I mean, so far tonight, I've enjoyed your lines of inquiry.
	They're the same lines of inquiry I would have made if I were doing it.
	And that reassures me.
	That makes me think, you know, okay, you know, that's that's great because I mean, and the thing is, you enjoy you still there?
	Okay, so well, I'll reply to a bit of that.
	That is something that we are going to get a forum going for all of the supporters because we do want to hear the voices.
	One of the things we've kind of been big about is that when you're making a documentary, it can't be about you.
	I think that Jordan and I are going to be characters in the documentary.
	You know how Star Wars has Luke Skywalker who doesn't know anything and they have to explain what the Empire is to him.
	Same thing.
	We're kind of the characters, the viewpoint of the documentary, but it can't be about us or our politics or any of that.
	It needs to be about the people we're interviewing, about what's happened to them, what's happened to people in this community, and a fair representation of all of this.
	And so that certainly does involve getting people's voices.
	So we will be setting up a forum for that.
	Second of all, what we're doing, because we haven't hit our funding goal, but I really, like, it's hard to explain, but I'm convinced this is the right thing to do.
	I'm convinced that this is not, you know, chasing after waterfalls or whatever the song says.
	What we're hoping to do over the next month is go and get some of the preliminary material, some of the interviews that we're going to need for this documentary.
	Like they've agreed to be on the thing.
	We will be booking the flights on Monday.
	And it's very sea to the pants.
	Should be able to pay our rent, probably.
	But then we will actually have something we can go out and show to people.
	Because like you said, Stargon, you're back now?
	Yeah, I am back.
	Sorry.
	Where did I get to in my long rambling diatribe?
	Talk about having a form getting people involved.
	And yes, that is part of our plan.
	And we are, over the next month, we are going to be showing some of the videos that we've been filming with people to show you that we are doing this.
	This is serious.
	But that's actually a great idea because then people can give you feedback on how the interviews went and what you could do better in future interviews.
	Just honest feedback because I'm sure they want to have a voice in the production of it because this is, I mean, you're being crowdfunded.
	This is a group.
	This is literally a group sort of effort.
	And it concerns physicians.
	I was just saying while you're gone, it's like we, Jordan and I may be, like, we'll probably haven't finalized how we're going to finish the thing, understand, but we're probably going to be the viewpoint characters, but it's not about us.
	We're the Luke Skywalker that needs to have the force explained to him.
	Yeah, that's a perfectly valid.
	about the community.
	It's not about guys from the manosphere, or guys that are from atheist cult, or from...
	I don't really think you guys are a cult.
	Maybe...
	Maybe you should make a tactical maneuver and not host it yourselves.
	And I know that probably sounds quite strange, but seriously, you could get someone they couldn't attack hosting it.
	You guys write the script and stuff like that.
	And I'm sure you can do voiceovers and stuff like that for the information when you're detailing it and stuff.
	But have the narrative that you're going to be constructing read out by I mean, literally be as cynical about this as you want.
	Find someone.
	I mean, there are plenty.
	The movement is very diverse.
	Gamergate is insanely diverse.
	You could find, you could probably find a lesbian black teenage woman to do your reading for you in Gamergate.
	We're interviewing those people.
	The guest list we have so far, guest list, list of interviews, I don't know what to call it, is and I was actually saying, I was talking with Justine, who like her and I have exchanged tweets over the past year, a bit of a pre-existing online friendship.
	First time I've chatted with her, is I was saying, you know what, I really hate the fact that I'm using you as a token because I respect you as a person.
	I respect your accomplishments, your intelligence.
	I don't agree with everything you say, but you have a lot of guts saying it despite the fact that you're frequently attacked.
	That's really the reason that you're on here.
	But it's also because you're a token, and I hate that.
	The thing is, I know that it's awful that you have to do that.
	And I'm not joking.
	It's necessary because they make it necessary.
	And she said, you know what?
	Turn it into a joke.
	Because it is a joke.
	It is ridiculous that there's tokenism and make it funny.
	And that's, I think, the sanest attitude.
	So we want to get these people not as the viewpoint character but as themselves talking about their experiences and a diverse set of people.
	Not one narrative, but showing that, like the social justice warriors, they are against everybody.
	They are against everybody that is not themselves.
	And plurality is a good thing.
	So plurality of voices in this.
	I tell you what, Ryan, I personally, I've got to stress this.
	And I know this, I don't want this to sound offensive in any way, but I really don't think you and Jordan can be the ones hosting it.
	I really, I honestly think that there are better people to do that.
	And that's not to take anything away from you and Jordan.
	It's more about what you're doing and who you're targeting it at.
	If the social justice warriors are constantly harping on about straight white men and how awful straight white men are, straight white men are not going to be able to tell people.
	But honestly, we're not really that awful because, frankly, no one gives straight white men any kind of sympathy.
	And when women and damaged individuals like social justice warriors are screaming from the rooftops that, oh, so straight white men and the patriarchy are oppressing us.
	And then productive individuals who work hard and get something and achieve something by creating this, you know, in your case, creating a documentary.
	Say, and you might have all the facts, you might have all the facts, and they might be absolutely irrefutable, but it's still going to not sit well in people's minds, right?
	Well, we'll be a very small part of it.
	Let me just finish my point, right?
	Because if I'm nothing else, I am a strategist.
	I'm a strategist.
	I am a tactician.
	I like this sort of thing.
	One of my favorite things is the history of war.
	And the history of war is effectively the history of politics.
	And I like seeing who wins, and I like seeing how they win.
	And I tell you how you win this right now, right?
	You approach Christina Summers to do all of your reading throughout the whole documentary.
	If you can get her doing that, you know, and explain to that, you might not be able to pay her.
	I think that she might do this on principle.
	And if people support her joining this, if you guys in the chat room now were to just send her a polite email saying, hi, Christina, I don't know whether you've seen, or you know, a tweet or something.
	Hi, Christina, or Doctor, whatever she goes by.
	I don't know whether you've seen it, but these two guys are making a factual documentary based on all of the information about the social justice warrior phenomenon in the gaming industry.
	And we know you've contributed to it.
	Your video has gone viral, effectively.
	Hundreds of thousands of views.
	We would really like it if you'd like to contribute to this research because she's a professor.
	She's perfect for it.
	And we'd like you to narrate it and star in it.
	She is unassailable from a normal person's point of view.
	She is so, so perfect for this, for you guys.
	Literally, you couldn't lose.
	See, I love Alessandra.
	Seriously.
	You know what?
	You guys send her emails because that's a brilliant idea.
	I fucking know it's a brilliant idea.
	I hate to blow my own horn, but I fucking know it, mate.
	If there's the only thing I can do, it's tactics.
	I'm thinking from a production point of view.
	You are.
	That's exactly the thing.
	And that's why I wanted to talk to you because I do support what you're doing, but it's hard to get behind you because you are the guys they're criticizing, and the public will see that.
	That's all they'll see.
	You know?
	So, seriously, Summers, if you can just ask her really politely, explain everything what you're doing, ask her to contribute on the research if she wants to.
	Yeah, seriously.
	This is a little bit too brilliant.
	Can we delete this from the internet?
	I don't want to.
	Seriously, guys, spread the idea.
	Spread the idea.
	I'm not kidding.
	We can win this if we just act smart.
	We ignore our own egos.
	That's the point.
	Ignore our own egos.
	Our egos are not the issue here.
	What is the issue is winning.
	I want to win this fucking culture war.
	I really do.
	I don't want these fuckers taking over my hobby, taking over the world around me.
	And gaming is it.
	That's why I do my YouTube channel.
	I do it because I want a voice in the public arena to say, look, these guys are full of shit.
	Don't listen to them.
	And you know what?
	This is why I was talking about games and economics and Google search engines and all of this.
	It's that these people are amazing and brilliant and they are the hope for the future.
	And these are the fields that are being attacked by the social justice.
	And this is why this is so important.
	This is bigger than just video games and culture.
	They're trying to destroy the most innovative and brilliant and positive and ethical fields out there.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	And Kovcom said, you don't have to tell her about the interviews.
	No, don't lie to her, man.
	Don't lie to me.
	We are not like them.
	And like you say, it's literally a larger issue that's being played out in microcosm here.
	And we really have to.
	And I think Christina Summers really understands that.
	I really think she does.
	And I think that's why she's making videos on the internet.
	She really wants to solve this problem.
	Yes, and when with the filming we're going to be doing, here's a bit of what I'm thinking from a production angle right now.
	Because it is still speculative.
	At the funding level we're at, there's a lot of speculation.
	So we're actually going to be getting so much footage.
	We are going to get footage that we can do so much with.
	If Miss Summer says no, we'll have footage that we can do something else.
	There are plenty of other people to approach.
	Like other people said, that guy T is a great, great guy to do it.
	His latest video.
	He's wearing a suit and he's an intelligent young man.
	He's the most respectable looking, intelligent young man you've ever seen.
	It's hard not to take him credibly.
	And he's only 19, 20.
	He's so young.
	It's crazy.
	He's such a responsible looking adult.
	If she says no, there are definitely other people.
	But she, professor, feminist, woman, seriously, she's the silver bullet, if you can get it.
	And, you know, I really recommend people asking her really politely.
	You know, she is a very respectable person.
	She is increased.
	I've got so much respect for her.
	And I think a lot of other people do too.
	So, you know, I really do.
	Send her a message.
	Seriously.
	That would be perfect.
	Yeah, honestly, I really, you know, and then you guys can do the hard work.
	You can do the legwork.
	You can do the research.
	I'm sure she's got her own research that is just as valid and useful to you as well that she'll be able to share with you just by sending you a few links.
	And it could be a relationship that really helps.
	And I really do agree that something has to be off the internet to be counted.
	That is true.
	In the mainstream media narrative, if it's on the internet, then people don't care.
	It's just a YouTube video.
	It's just a thing.
	But if it's on a database in a documentary list or a film list, then it's got a lot more weight.
	Rachel's right.
	I just can't help being scary and badass looking.
	Yeah.
	No, mate, that is exactly the problem that white men have.
	I'm not kidding.
	I get told that I'm really intimidating all the time.
	And I think, well, that's weird because I actually think I'm quite a nice guy.
	But you guys are a bunch of twats, so I can't help but be a twat back to you.
	And now I'm a bigger twat than you are because I'm scarier than you.
	You know, and that, like, when the social justice warriors are giving it, and it's just like, you know, it kind of pisses me off.
	It's not fair.
	But, you know, there we go.
	And that's the thing.
	You know, mate, you're in the military.
	You know, you're confident.
	You're self-assured.
	You know what you're talking about.
	You've thought about your position, obviously, for a long time before you've come to your position.
	You know, I mean, one of my favorite things that you say is about noblisse oblige.
	As a history guy, when you first said that, I was like, oh, love it.
	You know, you're right.
	It does pull upwards.
	That's why I am not against the monarchy in Britain.
	You know, I think the monarchy in Britain is still a good thing.
	And I don't even think it's about noblisse oblige anymore.
	For me, it's probably just nostalgia for history.
	But it's one of those things I find very cute.
	Queen Lizzie was when I first joined the army, we were on parade for her for her sentence.
	I don't even remember.
	But she stood basically at attention for 45 minutes.
	And if you've ever stood at attention, like one of the guys, she was the one that takes the traffic.
	He almost passed out briefly, almost fell on his bayonet.
	Standing at attention is hard.
	It's really hard.
	And this woman is, what, 665?
	She stood there for 45 minutes just to honor one of her countries.
	So say what you will about the politics.
	She is a cool lady.
	Absolutely.
	Honestly, I totally agree.
	She's beloved in Britain.
	Everyone thinks she's the tits, whether they're monarchist or not.
	She's just been a good example of a queen.
	And so you can't, you know, you just can't refute that.
	Lord Saber, nice one.
	Just make sure you guys are really nice and polite and welcoming.
	That's it.
	Rachel Edwards, if you wouldn't mind doing it, again, I hate to say it.
	It's coming from a woman, and it shouldn't make a difference, but these things do.
	So if we can get lots of women asking her, that would really help.
	Get it on Not Your Shield.
	Get it on hashtag Not Your Shield.
	So the people on there, and I hate, I hate her at home.
	Don't harass her at home at 3 a.m.
	No, no, just tweet her and then she can pick it up later, you know.
	Yeah, yeah, obviously, don't be like them, Jesus.
	But I hate that I have to say, look, straight white guys, you're actually a lot less useful in this situation because it's fucking racist, you know.
	But you've got to look at the facts of the matter, and these people have been demonizing straight white guys for 30 years.
	You know, it's straight white guys are just hard to persuade people because of all the propaganda against straight white guys.
	Well, you know, it's the reverse.
	It's the reverse of what Justine was saying.
	Take it as a joke.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Great point.
	I'm not offended.
	I'm not oppressed.
	No, exactly.
	But the facts of the matter are just not in our favor at the moment.
	I'm a straight white guy.
	You know what I mean?
	I've got to say this.
	So, Rachel, if you'd appreciate it, I'd really appreciate if you tweeted her, just asking, say, hey, this is a great idea, or I think it's a great idea.
	Do you want to help out?
	Because, you know, there's no reason that we can't make this a team effort using the best we have on our side.
	And Christina Summers is the best representative Gamergate or just the anti-feminist side could have.
	She's so great.
	And yeah.
	The narration, we might be able to get a hold of Paglia, who is so big that all of her contact information is non-existent.
	Sorry, who is that?
	Camille Paglia.
	I don't actually know who that is.
	Oh, she is awesome.
	A friend of mine was just at a libertarian convention, and so she was giving a speech at it, and she was talking about date rape.
	And she was saying, back when I was fighting for feminism, we were demanding the right to be date raped.
	We were demanding that we wouldn't, like, we were fighting against being treated like children with our hand held.
	We wanted the right to go out and get blackout drunk and maybe get raped.
	You know, that's a free person.
	She is.
	I completely agree.
	But yeah, seriously, get this on Not Your Shield.
	Get people of color and women saying, hey, we're gamers.
	We're really pissed off with the social justice warriors and Queen Anita scamming the crap out of everyone.
	Karen Strawn is another great person, but the problem with Karen Strong is that she's an MRA.
	And that in itself is obviously not a problem for me.
	Well, she lives three hours from me, and I've never heard from her.
	So I don't know.
	I'm kind of hurt, man.
	I'm kind of hurt.
	I can understand it.
	I'm still waiting for her to ask for a conversation with me, to be honest.
	I'd love to have her on.
	But the problem is, she is a public MRA, and that's not a problem for us, obviously.
	But that's a problem that the mainstream media will make out.
	That'll be a big deal that the mainstream media will make out.
	Christina Summers is a feminist.
	The best person that we are going to have on this is T.J. Sodomeyer.
	Because one of the aspects we're taking is the online harassment.
	And Sodomire has actually had real harassment.
	He has had pictures of guns tweeted to him.
	I'm not going to go into the whole thing, but there's another example of one of the voices we're going to have on this.
	Right, okay, that's great because just as many, and I hate saying it, I really hate saying as many non-white men as you can have, or non-white, non-male people, is great because their entire argument is predicated on the idea of these people being victims.
	And I'm not saying we shouldn't allow MRAs.
	What I'm saying is MRAs will be a point of weakness that they can attack from.
	It's not that MRAs are bad, it's that they have painted it in the public consciousness that MRAs are bad.
	You know, I was actually going to be on a Voice for Men podcast a week.
	Like, neither myself nor Jordan were available at the time, unfortunately.
	But I would like to follow that up.
	I'm not sure who we could speak to in the MRAs.
	I'm not sure how much the MRAs have to do with video games.
	I'm not sure if there's a wrong...
	They've got a video game podcast.
	They've got a video game podcast now.
	I'm thinking about going on it myself.
	And I don't, people think I'm saying don't talk to MRAs.
	All I'm saying is I don't think Karen Strong would be the most optimal choice to front the video.
	And that's so mean to say because Karen Stran is an amazing speaker.
	She is absolutely amazing.
	But it's because of what she is that we shouldn't.
	Christina Summers is a feminist.
	She has been a feminist probably her whole adult life.
	She is untouchable.
	There is nothing, nothing in the world that they could say that's going to bring her down, you know, in anyone else's mind.
	They're going to see her talking with, she's a professor, she's got the facts, she's a feminist, she's been called the factual feminist for ages since she came onto YouTube.
	She works for the American Enterprise Institute, which I assume is a fairly reputable thing, why she works for them.
	And, I mean, she's working for them, so I'm quite, you know, already giving them the benefit of the doubt.
	She is unassailable, whereas Karen Stran's got a point of weakness that MRAs aren't well liked in the public consciousness.
	She's doing a great job changing the way people think of MRAs.
	It's not that bad.
	She's not a girl.
	She is actually creating original content.
	Honestly, I really got introduced to this side of thing just coming out of a bad relationship and finding her videos and realizing how much they spoke to me.
	Honestly, I owe her a debt of gratitude.
	I probably wouldn't be where I am now without her thing.
	Syrian Girl is a good fallback if Christina Summers won't do it.
	But seriously, your silver bullet is Christina Summers.
	And yeah, I really think that just as much input from Gamergate to her, from the Not Your Shield hashtag people to her would be fantastic.
	And yeah, Adam Baldwin would be great because he's a Hollywood celebrity.
	He's beloved.
	He's been in Firefly.
	He's been in Fullmetal Jacket.
	He's been in so many films and series that are just really, really well lauded.
	And he's a recognizable face for a lot of people.
	And so, yeah, there are a lot of people on this team that if you can get Christina Summers, you can get all of them.
	You can get absolutely all of them.
	Milo, I'm sure, is probably a good choice, assuming you make sure that he sticks very specifically on topic about what's happened and doesn't get a bit too right-wing.
	And I don't begrudge him for being right-wing, but it's about, you've really got to just think about the psychology of the people you're trying to persuade.
	You can't come across as anything other than centrist.
	That's it.
	You have to appear to be centrist.
	Stay away from Stefan Molyneux.
	Totally agree.
	Stay away from Stefan Molyneux.
	He's a sophist.
	I don't trust what he says.
	I'm actually going to do videos with him because I listened to a podcast with him and Dan Carlin.
	And I tell you what, I love Dan Carlin so much.
	I sat through Stefan Molyneux to listen to just to what Dan Carlin was saying.
	And I might actually cut out the bits that Stefan Molyneux was saying and just make video responses because he makes assumptions that sound reasonable and probably are true to an extent, but are completely reversed when you learn about the rest of what he's just missed out in that step.
	And it makes this point invalid.
	And it really bothers me.
	And I think it's only because I know history as well as I do that I can see these things and other people can't because Stefan Molyneux also knows history very well.
	I think he just cherry-picks a lot.
	But yeah, I mean, I would say, right, if I were going to give you some sort of perfect lineup, I would have Summers hosting it, you two doing all the research and the legwork, the stuff that nobody's going to thank you for, but the stuff that needs to be done, the hard lifting that everyone needs to be done.
	And Summers will be key in this as well.
	Get any celebrities you can get who are pretty decent, especially Adam Baldwin's got a great reputation.
	Who doesn't love Jane?
	Who doesn't love Jane?
	You know, from Firefly.
	And you can probably introduce him using a clip from Firefly or something like that.
	And you know what?
	As this builds, it opens up more doors.
	Absolutely.
	That's exactly what we're hoping to do.
	Yeah, exactly.
	This is what you have to do, but you have to think strategically.
	That's why, honestly, that's entirely been my purpose, bringing you on, because I like the YouTube videos you do.
	And even though I don't agree with everything you say, but I don't agree with everything anyone says.
	Well, it's not supposed to be a monolith.
	It's supposed to be a conversation.
	Exactly.
	It would be an echo chamber if we just all agreed with everything we all said.
	So Summers doing the fronting and the research, as well as you two doing the research and the legwork, the unrewarding bit, but the necessary bit.
	And then Adam Baldwin for some celebrity power.
	A few other people who are not on the internet.
	I know it's quite hard to.
	I mean, by this point, it might be worth approaching someone like Penn and Teller or something like that.
	If you can get all of these dominoes to fall into place, I am planning to move the packets in a couple of months.
	I've seen these guys, you know, he's quite rational.
	And I know that, you know, people are very divided on whether they like him or not.
	But it's one of those people who will probably be on your side because they're rational thinking people.
	Even though you might not agree with their views, they do still think, you know, and they probably do have an opinion on this sort of thing.
	But yeah, Karen Strong, definitely have her as an interviewee.
	I can't think of anyone else off the top of my head.
	Guys, in the comments, have you got any other ideas of who to approach if you can get the initial dominoes of Christine Summers and Adam Baldwin?
	If in the comments, or if you've got any ideas, you know, because I want to help.
	I really want to help because it could be a really important cultural monolith.
	But we really have to be honest with ourselves about how we can make it as good as we can make it.
	Exactly.
	Like, believe me, the amount of editing work I'm committing myself to, it's going to be hell.
	This is why I'm thinking, because the thing is, I mean, you guys, you're just two guys.
	I know that you've got a lot of work on.
	I know that you do.
	And so, you know, and there are so many people who really give a damn.
	I mean, the thing is about that guy too is that he's an internet guy.
	Thunderfoot, yeah, I think he's already doing an interview with Thunderfoot, which is great because Thunderfoot is a scientist.
	He can literally come on and say, my name's Phil.
	I don't actually know his full name.
	I've done experiments at the Super Collider at CERN or wherever he did his video doing his Super Collider or his thing is.
	And you can get some really respectable people on board if you've just got the right people to start with.
	And as much as I like Irini and Jordan Owen, and I do think that fundamentally they probably are both very, very nice guys.
	I don't know them, but from what I know of their videos, I think they're probably very nice guys.
	And I think that it's something that's worth doing because I think that they're right, that there needs to be some non-internet media out there that can be pointed to.
	really do you know um so yeah guys you've all got i i really think that and you know no one wants to ask for help That's the thing.
	I would never want to ask help.
	One of the things that Derek Miles just said the money is such a big roadblock.
	It really isn't.
	15 grand we can do a proper documentary.
	We just really have to bust our humps.
	Cooperation is the key.
	It's not a lot of money.
	It really isn't.
	Given the number of people involved in all of this.
	Like if we're asking a buck a month from each person, five bucks over five months to try and defend video games that you probably spend a lot more than that on each month.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, I absolutely agree.
	And so, yeah, I hate the e-begging aspect, except what I'm doing is I'm begging you for a buck a month so that I can work 12 hours a day and be thinking about putting a gun to my head because I'm so sick of editing video.
	Yeah, and I just want to say to everyone, seriously, I know that it's a lot of research.
	I know it is.
	It's a lot of reading, and it's shit reading because a lot of the time you'll find yourself going down a dead end and there was nothing there, and you're like, great, okay, nothing was there.
	I've got to go back to wherever I started and then go down another road.
	So, yeah, it's, you know, I can completely agree that I can completely believe that there is plenty of research and just it is hard work.
	I swear to God.
	When I did the one about the playful is political, it took hours and hours.
	It probably took days, in fact.
	Think about it to do all of the research in not days, probably an entire day to do all of the research involved with just finding out who these people were and just showing why they're all interconnected.
	And that wasn't even that big a deal.
	But you've just got to read so much crap to get the actual real solid facts that you need, the actual information that you need.
	And so I can completely empathize with Davis's point.
	It is a lot of work.
	It really is.
	Well, that's the irony of social justice: that, like I've said it before, one minute of Anita's videos takes 20 minutes to explain everything wrong with it.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah, it really does.
	And so, yeah, like a well-researched, well-presented, concise documentary.
	Which is why that's not the right tactic.
	Now, I'm not saying that we shouldn't be making videos on YouTube and whatnot taking apart Anita's arguments because that's educational.
	Of course.
	You learn, if you watch a video like that, you learn a lot about a lot of things.
	That's a wonderful, productive use of time.
	But for the documentary, it's not going to be about taking apart her arguments, but rather demonstrating that the arguments are coming from a dishonest place.
	Like, we're not going to completely ignore the arguments.
	Obviously, we're not.
	But you'd need a three-season series to try and take the whole thing apart.
	It's going to be drawing attention to the pattern behind these people.
	Behind, like, Anita Sarkeesian, Zoe Quinn, so on and so forth.
	Like, I don't need to tell you folks this.
	You know, it's the same thing over and over again.
	I'm a victim.
	You people are full of hate.
	Let me control everything and give me a paycheck.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	And I think that that can all be.
	I think, in fact, Christina Summers is probably a great person to boil all that down.
	David's right.
	One minute of Anita's video takes about half a month to think up.
	Exactly.
	But the thing is, you can refute what they say very quickly if you can write a concise narrative.
	And I think Christina Summers is actually also very good at creating a narrative.
	So if you needed her to condense lots of information down into a paragraph, I think she's capable of doing that.
	She's a very well-educated lady.
	And I think that she's absolutely fine for doing that.
	Well, and I've studied rhetoric extensively.
	And I'm with Aristotle on it, that rhetoric is an art that deserves to exist for its own sake.
	It's not BS manipulation the way Plato described it.
	If it's coming from a true place, it's beautiful.
	And An example of my rhetorical flourish is about a month ago, you know, when this whole Gamergate started, there was a lot of hate against me because the narrative from the social justice people was that I was racist, sexist, atomophobic, etc.
	I managed to flip that around in a week, and the people calling me that are now the bullies.
	And I've managed to, like, coming from an extremely radical reactionary right position, which, as you guys know, does not mean that I hate people or I want to commit genocides or that I'm a Nazi, but that I just think and I'm a historian.
	You know, I find people on the right are very much concerned about individual responsibility and morality, whereas people on the left are very much concerned with state responsibility.
	You know what?
	There's a lot of liberals out there who are concerned with individual responsibility.
	Not the leftists, but the leftists behind the movement, the leftists at the top of the movement, are not the movement itself.
	Yeah, yeah, no, that's true.
	That's true.
	It's the people that are rabidly almost devoted in a religious way that believe in the authority.
	They do fundamentally believe that truth comes from authority.
	And that really, really gets under my skin.
	Yes.
	Yeah.
	Well, again, it comes from authority because they don't believe truth is bigger than them.
	They don't believe truth is objective.
	That's the problem.
	The reason, this is going to the philosophy of science.
	The reason that science developed out of Christianity is because Christianity has a God that doesn't fuck with you.
	God made the universe and said, this is the universe.
	These are the rules.
	No more floods.
	You know, figure out the rules.
	And so truth is bigger than the human.
	It's part of, like, Odin or Zeus, they change the rules whenever they feel like it.
	Whereas Yahweh, the Christian God, doesn't change the rules.
	So truth is bigger than us.
	It doesn't come from people.
	It doesn't come from authority.
	Truth is truth.
	Yeah, no, I agree.
	I agree.
	But yeah, I guess on that sort of note, we should probably leave it there because it's 3.30 a.m. a.m. here.
	But honestly, I really, really want to help.
	And I really think I can help.
	I think I can give good advice.
	And I think I can give good advice because I've seen these kind of power struggles play out in history.
	You see them in every society, all throughout history.
	And if you read enough of them, you know what good ideas tend to look like.
	And you know when a cusp is coming.
	And this right here is an opportunity to.
	This is the time.
	This is the place.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, it's an idea whose time has come.
	So you have to do this as professionally and as selflessly as possible.
	Ego is out the door.
	You know what?
	When I was filming Lust in the Time of Heartache, you could tell how impressed the martial artists were that it ended with me being murdered.
	That this was not an ego vanity project about what a badass I am, but it was actually a project using martial arts to tell a story.
	And so, yeah, you need to kill your ego if you're going to do anything worthwhile in this world.
	Yeah, exactly.
	And that's honestly why I think that it would be better for what you're doing if you and Jordan weren't in the spotlight.
	And no one's going to doubt your contributions or anything like that.
	But I think we all agree it is bigger than you guys.
	It's bigger than the guys funding it.
	And if we can do that, like I'm going into this, we're going to be getting so much footage that we have options, right?
	That if we're desperate and we have to be in the documentary, then we're in the documentary.
	But if we can cut ourselves out, if we can get Christina Hoff Summers doing the voice, having her the narrative, the narrator of the whole thing, that's absolutely brilliant.
	Yeah.
	I completely agree.
	My only worry is the production angle.
	Like, we, you know, like, one more person to fly around with us everywhere and get video of.
	Well, I mean, it is.
	It is, but I think you'll get more backers on Patreon with her on board.
	You know, I think that there would be a lot of people who would really, really be interested in, you know, because it would literally be flying her to places so you guys can film her and she can interview the person that you need to interview.
	You know?
	And that would be just that would be an excellent way of doing it, I think.
	I really do.
	I think that they would just have to attack your arguments because attacking the person that is on the screen that everyone's going to see isn't going to work.
	And you know what?
	She's somebody.
	She's somebody that would put herself out there for this as well.
	Exactly.
	She's already a public figure and she is just eminent, pre-eminent.
	There is no attacking her.
	And no one cares about the people behind the camera, really, because people just care about the people they're looking at.
	And, you know, absolutely.
	And Lexi Mordino, I don't pussy out of things.
	So, yeah, and I don't think Irini does, just from what I've done.
	I burned my Tori wheels long ago.
	Yeah, exactly.
	We cast our lot in when we first started making videos taking the piss out of these people and directly contradicting everything they say.
	You know, so there's no backing out.
	This is it for me, anyway.
	You know, victory or death when Carrie Welmori.
	Yeah, honestly, I'm not living in the social justice world.
	I'm just not doing it.
	It's wrong.
	It's fundamentally wrong.
	To go back to nerd for a moment.
	To quote Red Dwarf, better to live a day as a lion than a lifetime as a worm.
	And what did Rimmer say to that?
	Whoever heard of a wormskin rug?
	I should have remembered that.
	I should have remembered that.
	I know that.
	God, I spent my teenage years watching Red Dwarf religiously.
	I love it.
	That's my favorite season.
	I know people don't like that season, but it's my favorite.
	Which season was that?
	Was it five or six?
	Oh, one to six were just the best.
	The whole thing was just consistently brilliant.
	You know, after that, it went downhill a bit, but one to six was just amazing.
	Did you know that Crichton actually had a Canadian accent?
	Like, that was intentionally a Canadian accent?
	I actually didn't, but I was quite young when I was watching it.
	So I'm going to look out for that next time I watch it.
	I saw a really interesting interview with the creators.
	It's an episode happening in an alternate reality, the one where they have Kat playing a priest.
	He was originally a janitor, but it struck them that, like, for so long, they'd had the show with two white guys and two black guys in it, and you would have never thought of it that way until that episode.
	They were going to have Dave as a mechanic and the cat as a janitor.
	And all of a sudden, they're like, oh, geez, suddenly this is feeling insensitive.
	And that's the only time it came up.
	It's just, it's beautiful that they had these real characters that were not diversity quotients.
	They were just characters.
	Yeah, just I mean, it just didn't occur to me.
	I suppose Dave Lister isn't white, is he?
	It didn't really occur to me.
	He's English.
	You know, that's the thing.
	That's the thing in England.
	First class English.
	Yeah, that's the thing.
	It's really, English is not a race in any way.
	It's a state of mind.
	You know, I'm not kidding.
	And, like, they are so stereotypical in a way.
	Like, Rimmer wishes he was in the nobility, upper class.
	Trichton is like the servile British class.
	Dave Lister is the working class.
	And Cat is like the cool schnazzy, but kind of dumb guy.
	They're all stereotypical, but they're well rounded.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	But it's not just that.
	I've read all the books to them as well.
	And it's more that they are justified in what they are.
	Everything about Rimmer is all summed up when I can't remember what episode it was.
	It was one with The Inquisitor, where it's like, you know, justify yourself.
	And he's like, what else could I have become?
	And that is Rimmer.
	That is everything about Red Dwarf summed up.
	It's like the characters are justified in what they are.
	I love Red Dwarf.
	It's so better than it looks.
	It's really human.
	They are, like, it's so tragic and hilarious.
	It's a beautiful series.
	Yeah, yeah.
	But anyway, really better call it a night there.
	But thanks for coming on.
	I've had a really, really good time having a chat.
	Absolute pleasure.
	Take care, my friend.
	Absolutely.
	And guys, don't forget to spread the idea around if you like it, because I think that really good things can be done.
	And yeah, we should do that.
	Would you like to talk us out?
	Well, you know what?
	It's really about getting the word.
	A lot of people are skeptical, and it's not wrong to be skeptical.
	But if you folks, if you believe in this, if you want to give us the shot, at least, of trying to do this, getting the word out there is really the big thing.
	We're not asking for a huge, we don't want anybody to go hungry because of this, obviously.

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