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Oct. 4, 2025 - Bannon's War Room
46:34
WarRoom Battleground EP 863: LeoChurch in US authorizes first “gaywashed” bible and Germany in shock as INVADER shoves Ukrainian girl under train
Participants
Main voices
b
ben harnwell
16:53
p
peter wolfgang
15:35
v
vadim derksen
12:40
Appearances
Clips
s
steve bannon
00:10
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Speaker Time Text
ben harnwell ▲ ● ▼
Up tonight because we've got a lot to go through.
Peter Wolfgang, the executive director of the Connecticut Family Institute.
Peter, you wrote a fascinating article just a couple of days ago discussing this theory, the thesis of gay washing in the latest translations of the Bible.
I'm going to ask you to break this down a little bit.
But before I do, I just want to be specific about the edition of the Bible that we're using.
I use the Ignatius Study Bible, right?
Which is the, let me get this right.
It's the new revised standard version, second Catholic edition.
Okay.
And the version we're talking about now is the new revised standard version, updated edition, Catholic edition.
Right, okay, that's a bit of a bit of a breathful.
However, the importance of this, first of all, the somewhat dodgy translations here have been highlighted really by the Protestants.
But the interest to Catholics is that the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, the USCCB, has now authorized this version.
That's where it becomes important because authorized for home use and presumably further down the line for liturgical use as well.
So Peter, why don't we start off and discuss the term that's capturing our interest for the next 20 minutes, which is used, I think, both in 1 Corinthians, but also in a letter to Timothy.
Osenuk Koitai.
What does that word mean?
Why don't you start off with saying, what does that word always mean, meant in the last 2,000 years?
And what does it mean by the stroke of a pen today?
peter wolfgang ▲ ● ▼
Well, Ben, first of all, thank you.
It's a great honor to be on your show.
And you're asking me specifically about an article that I wrote this week for CatholicCulture.org.
People can go to that website and read it.
It's up right now.
The article is titled Bishops Approve Gay Washed Bible.
And the word that you're talking about is, I'm probably going to mispronounce it myself, but it is a Greek word.
It is found in both 1 Corinthians 6, verse 9 and 1 Timothy 1, verse 10.
It's the only two times in the New Testament that that word appears.
St. Paul coined the word himself.
And the word, the Greek word, is arsen o koite, arsenokoite.
And what that word has always been understood to mean until the most recent translation of the New Revised Standard Version Bible, the updated edition, is men who have sex with men.
It's one of St. Paul's two condemnations of homosexual practice that appears in the New Testament.
And the reason I use the word gay wash, that phrase, it does not originate with me.
I am quoting a Protestant scholar by the name of Robert A.J. Gagnon.
He is one of the foremost scholars on the Bible and homosexuality.
And he was the one who sounded the alarm three years ago when the new revised standard version updated edition.
I'm going to refer to it as the NRSVUE for short, although that's already six letters.
It's already a mouthful.
But he was the one who first sounded the alarm when the NRSVUE came out three years ago that for the first time ever, in a major way, that a major respected Bible translation had essentially taken out St. Paul's condemnation of homosexual activity, at least in these two verses.
Now, it does still appear in other parts of the Bible, but it's in the NRSV UE, the NRSV updated edition.
But it's important to back up and explain why that's still a problem going forward.
ben harnwell ▲ ● ▼
Let's just recapitulate that point, okay?
This is the first time, or certainly within the authoritative translations, this is the first time this word has been translated out of its traditional context, right?
To have a translation rendered into English that is explicitly nothing to do with homosexual practice.
peter wolfgang ▲ ● ▼
Yes, the NRSVUE, I'm quoting someone else here, is the first major English Bible to suddenly find arsinocoite impossible to translate.
And this person argued, as other people did, that that's not an accident.
And we need to back up and talk about that.
How did we arrive at this place?
Why was this word, which has always been understood, you know, it was never, the Greek was never that uncertain.
I mean, if you want to, you can say almost every word when you're translating the Bible is uncertain.
But for most of the history of the English translation of the Bible, people understood what that word meant until historically speaking, the day before yesterday or about three years ago when the NRSV updated edition came out.
And I don't think it's an accident that it was the mainline Protestant churches that, this is their flagship Bible, the NRSV now updated edition, that ended up doing this.
And the reason you and I are having this discussion right now is because three years later in 2025, just this week, the Catholic bishops have given their imprimatur to it.
And I think we need to back up and discuss that.
If I can, I want to start with something that you started with, actually.
The Ignatius Study Bible.
I cannot recommend it highly enough.
That translation is the Revised Standard Version, Second Catholic Edition.
It's a great translation.
It's something that we owe largely to Ignatius Press in the year 2006.
It was Ignatius Press that worked with the Vatican at that time to get approval of that translation for those Catholics, those tiny number of Catholics who belong to the Anglican Ordinariate, which is something that Pope Benedict founded for Anglicans who convert to Catholicism.
The Mass that you go to, the liturgy you go to, that's the translation that you hear.
And it's very beautiful.
And it's something that goes all the way back to the King James Version of the Bible.
ben harnwell ▲ ● ▼
That's right.
The point about the beauty behind the new revised standard version, second Catholic edition, is that the underlying NRSV text was done really in collaboration between Protestants and Catholics with the idea that both Protestants and Catholics can use it and can have faith in it.
Now, there is, of course, the Catholic version, which where there are some contentious renderings, historical, traditional renderings in both ways.
It's been based mainly on the King James Version, of course.
So there is that Catholic version that irons out some of the things to make some of these nuances more acceptable in light of Catholic tradition.
The underlying text here, this is the important thing, is that it was designed, I think, like 20 or 30 years ago when they first produced the core text as an ecumenical project without selling out either side.
And that's an important, and it is an absolutely excellent rendering.
peter wolfgang ▲ ● ▼
Yeah, so there's three different Bibles that we're talking about here.
There's the RSV from the mid-20th century, the revised standard version.
Then there's the new revised standard version, the NRSV.
And then there's the Bible that brings us to our conversation today, which is the NRSV updated edition.
So the RSV, what happened was the King James Version is a beautiful Bible sunk deep roots into English language and culture, goes back to the early 17th century.
It was a Protestant Bible.
The Catholics had the Douai Rheims.
The Protestants had the King James Bible.
A landmark event in religious history in the 20th century in the English-speaking world was the creation of the Revised Standard Version, RSV, which is an ecumenical Bible.
There's a Protestant version and there's a Catholic version.
And for the first time, you had a Catholic, you had a Bible in common for both Catholics and Protestants.
The Catholic Bible was slightly different, but for the first time, you had a Catholic Bible that was in the lineage of the beautiful King James Version Bible.
Then what happened was in 1989, the RSV was updated by the National Council of Churches, mainline Protestants, and you got the NRSV.
Now that was controversial.
The Bible that Ignatius Press has now is not an NRSV.
It specifically calls itself the RSV Catholic edition or second Catholic edition for a reason.
In the late 1980s, early 1990s, there was a lot of fight over so-called inclusive language.
Historically, words like man or mankind in the English language meant both men and women.
But in the late 1980s, feminism was all the rage.
So they had so-called inclusive language where they actually took out male pronouns from the NRSV.
And it was very controversial at the time.
It spilled over into the Catholic Church's fight over the English edition of the Catechism of the Catholic Church in the early 90s.
And as a result, in the English-speaking world, we did not get an English catechism until 94, two years after everyone else got theirs, because Father Joseph Fessio, the founder of Ignatius Press, who was a student of Cardinal Ratzinger's, who was still a cardinal at the time, worked with him to make sure that the Catechism did not follow the NRSV, followed the RSV Catholic edition, and that that more standard English language, man and mankind,
rather than being watered down, was kept in that Bible.
Now, what does that have to do with what's happening right now?
Now, it's interesting that the mainline Bible translation, the NRSV, it seems to go, Ben, with whatever happens to be the fad at the time.
So in the late 1980s, feminism was all the rage.
Taking out the male pronouns to refer to mankind was all the rage.
A lot of times it kind of messed up the translation of the NRSV, which is why Ignatius Press brought back the RSV.
And then we got a second RSV, which is what you see in the study Bible, because Ignatius was working with the Vatican to get a liturgical edition.
That's how we got the RSV, second Catholic edition.
But what happens is the mainline Protestants, they update their flagship Bible about every 30 years or so.
So then we get the NRSV updated edition with homosexuality taken out in those two verses now that that's all the rage.
ben harnwell ▲ ● ▼
So let me ask you, Is this version that's just been authorized by the U.S. Catholic bishops?
Will that eventually have approval to be used in a liturgical context?
peter wolfgang ▲ ● ▼
Not in the United States.
We've got a different story going on in the USA, but it's one that overlaps with this story.
So here in the United States, for the last 55 years, we have used for the Mass, for the mainstream Novus Ordo Mass, we have used something called the New American Bible, and it's gone through several revisions.
It goes back about 55 years to 1970.
It's been revised several times.
And the bishops require that that translation and only that translation be used for the Mass in the United States.
And there are reasons for that.
They get copyright revenue out of it and so forth.
And they also understandably want everyone to be on the same page reading the same translation at Mass.
That is now going through a revision that will be, that will be, there will be yet another revision of the NAB, the New American Bible, that we'll be reading at Mass.
And it does raise a question.
Like the same people that gave the imprimater for this NRSB updated edition where they gay washed those two verses in the New Testament, presumably are the same people that are going to be signing off on the New American Bible.
We know the names of some of those scholars, and they're very solid people.
But it does raise a question: like, what can we expect from that edition of the New American Bible that we will be hearing at Mass?
If they signed off on the NRSV updated edition, and I was hoping they'd require the translators to fix that one word, if they did not require that, what are we going to be getting in the translation at Mass in a couple of years?
ben harnwell ▲ ● ▼
Look, that's a point here that you've been on this really since 2022, right?
You've been writing about this for the last three years, following every single development.
This is not something that's just come out of the blue.
The director of the NRSV UE is Catholic.
And yet it was the Protestants, Robert Gagnon, as you were saying, who did most of the work on social media trying to get the authentic, the traditional, at least something pertaining to the traditional sense of the word continued.
How will this, does this have ecumenical implications, the pushing through of this between Catholics and Protestants with regards to scriptural analysis going forward?
peter wolfgang ▲ ● ▼
So I'm concerned that it does.
And it's hard to qualify, to quantify it this early on.
But the RSV in the mid-20th century, the NRSV in the late 20th century, and now the NRSV updated edition at the end of the first quarter of the 21st century is the flagship Bible of the academy and of scholarship.
It's the Bible that everybody in that world sort of looks to.
And actually, I must say, I'd love to see the Catholics in our world that are famous for enlightening all of us as to the Bible.
I'm talking about faithful, good Catholic groups like Ascension Press and the famous Father Mike Schmitz with his Bible in a year and Jeff Cavins and Scott Hahn and St. Paul's Center for Biblical Theology and Augustine Institute.
We could go on forever.
These are the guys that should really be addressing this.
I'm just an amateur following up on this, but I think they need to push the bishops on this.
ben harnwell ▲ ● ▼
Hold on to this point.
I'm going to come back to you now about the actual practical implications in daily life arising out of this translation just in two minutes.
Thanks, Peters.
Just stand by.
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Okay, so Peter, my question to you here, listening to this debate is there are not just dry theoretical stuff, right?
The question to ask here is, does the Bible make moral distinctions therefore between different types of homosexual relationships?
That's really, I think, you'll agree with me here, that's the subtext of the importance of changing this correctly.
Does the Bible make moral distinctions between different types of homosexual relations?
Because taking that word in the wrong way would suggest that it does, right?
This has implications.
peter wolfgang ▲ ● ▼
Oh, it has tremendous implications, particularly those two verses in 1 Timothy and 1 Corinthians, where it has been changed.
And the way you described it, by the way, that comes straight from a Washington Times article in 2022 that covered the whole gay washing controversy.
And both they and the translators of the NRSV updated edition, they frame the issue that way.
Does that word, that Greek world, does it condemn all homosexual relationships or just illicit ones?
Which is to suggest that the Bible makes a moral distinction between different kinds of same-sex sexual activity.
And it does not.
That's an ideological novelty.
That's the way they're sneaking this sort of stuff in.
And I know the translators have defended themselves and said they're just doing objective scholarship, but I think it's reasonable to wonder if that's really the case.
Especially when you consider, and it has huge, it has eternal implications, because what those two verses are saying, Saint Paul is lifting a bunch of different categories of people, activities that they're engaged in, that if unrepentant, they will not inherit the kingdom of God.
That is what he is saying.
So when you change that to suggest that, you know, when St. Paul, inspired by the Holy Spirit, says, look, unrepentant people engaged in male homosexuality will not inherit the kingdom of God.
When the NRSB updated edition says something different than St. Paul under the Holy Spirit says that in that two verses, that is not an act of love to our neighbors who may be engaged in that sort of activity.
We want them to inherit the kingdom of God too.
And we're not doing them any favors.
We're doing them in eternal disfavor, a disservice, with horrifying consequences to fudge up those two verses, to fuzz them up and make them unclear.
They've been clear throughout centuries until this edition of the Bible.
It's a very serious matter.
ben harnwell ▲ ● ▼
This is the importance that you just touched on here of preaching the truth in charity.
Both of those two things go together.
In fact, preaching the truth, of course, I mean, there are different ways that you can go about it, but preaching the truth is actually a charitable act in and of itself.
Tell me something here, because this is on this show, on the evening show, often on the war room, we touch on issues that are important.
Our audience is largely evangelical, but we do touch on issues pertaining to traditional Catholicism.
And in addition to the debate over how we should live, there's the question here of episcopal authority, right?
unidentified
Yes.
ben harnwell ▲ ● ▼
I've always, my understanding is that the bishops of the Catholic Church, when they authorize translations, they're doing that in some way under the Holy Spirit.
I think the church has said that explicitly with regards to the Vulgate translation into Latin.
But this here, seeing the United States Catholic bishops have just authorized this, is it legitimate to ask what is the bishop's authority here on authorizing translations?
And does it throw up questions about the authority of bishops in general when it comes to teaching faith and morals?
peter wolfgang ▲ ● ▼
Well, I think it would be good, and this probably won't happen, but I think we ought to ask anyway.
I think it would be good if the bishops themselves here in the United States clarified this question as it relates to their approval of the NRSV updated edition.
The way that the public found out about this was Friendship Press, which is the publishing arm of the National Council of Churches, the Protestant mainline body.
They're the ones who put out this information that the USCCB, the U.S. Catholic Bishops Conference, had approved of this translation of the Bible.
And that approval now does appear on the USCCB's website.
But, you know, the USCCB is a bureaucracy.
And, you know, it would be worth asking, like, who gave that imprimatur?
Was it some staff person?
Was it some subcommittee?
Was it the bishops themselves?
The bishops are the successors to the apostles, and they do have legitimate authority.
And I mean, it's worth asking how was it exercised in this instance?
Was it their authority?
Was it some subcommittee?
And why?
And they ought to justify and explain this is why we didn't want that word changed.
ben harnwell ▲ ● ▼
This is a tapestry that when you start pulling on the threads, it can unravel far more than what you expected when you set out.
I think the Catholic Church here, not for the first time, really since the Second Vatican Council onwards, is in very dangerous territory here when it comes to its own authority.
And questions will inevitably be raised.
Okay, so that's pretty damning, I think.
Just tell me one thing, because you've got about a minute and a half left.
Tell me one thing here.
When we say that the word of God is divinely inspired and inerrant, we're talking about the original version in Greek, right?
peter wolfgang ▲ ● ▼
Well, the original version.
ben harnwell ▲ ● ▼
To what extent can we make that assumption when it comes to translations in general?
peter wolfgang ▲ ● ▼
Yeah, so the original version of the Bible, the Old Testament was in Hebrew and the New Testament was in Greek.
And my understanding is that the church considers both the original versions inspired as well as the Septuagint, the Greek translation of the Hebrew.
And your question is, to what extent can we accept English translations as inspired?
They're not inspired, certainly, the translators are not inspired in the way that St. Paul and Moses and all the original authors of the Bible were inspired.
You need to read it through the church's tradition, the interpretation.
Again, we've referenced the Ignatius Study Bible.
It doesn't get any better than that.
But it's not inspired in the same way that the original is.
It really is a work of scholarship.
Where the church's authority comes in is when the church gives imprimators to these translations.
That's not the same thing as saying it's inspired the way the original is, but that the church has looked at this and they don't see anything here that contradicts Catholic teaching on faith and morals.
And I think the translation of that one word does.
ben harnwell ▲ ● ▼
Okay, you're going to have to give me a yes or no on this one.
Can we as faithful believers have confidence that the translations that we're reading, if they have the imprimaturs, are accurate and faithful and will not lead us astray?
peter wolfgang ▲ ● ▼
Yes, ultimately.
But we're part of the process too.
We are part of the process too.
The lady have a voice too.
And when we see something weird, we have to push back.
ben harnwell ▲ ● ▼
Peter Wolfgang, this has been really fascinating.
We're going to have to get you back on to explore these themes in more detail.
In the meantime, where do people go to keep up with your analysis on social media?
peter wolfgang ▲ ● ▼
So, Family Institute of Connecticut's website is ctfamily.org.
You can also find me personally on Facebook at facebookdecks.com slash Peter Wolfgang.
ben harnwell ▲ ● ▼
Peter, that's very kind of you.
Thanks for coming on the show.
Look forward to catching up with you again soon.
God bless for now.
peter wolfgang ▲ ● ▼
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peter wolfgang ▲ ● ▼
It's free.
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ben harnwell ▲ ● ▼
Welcome back.
Well, one of the news stories that's been dominating German conversation over recent weeks is to do with the murder of a young girl, a young 16-year-old Ukrainian refugee in Germany called Liana.
And she was pushed on the train tracks by an Iraqi immigrant.
This is similar to the situation that's occupied American attention over recent months as well.
So my next guest, Vadim Dirksen, a senior editor at Junger Freiheit news portal, that's been right at the center of drawing attention to this.
Fadim, welcome onto Steve Bannon's War Room.
What can you tell us about this case festival?
What are the facts before we go into how this has captivated German attention?
vadim derksen ▲ ● ▼
Hi, Ben.
Nice to have me on your show.
Yeah, the thing is, Liana was murdered brutally on a daylight standing at the train station, and she was pushed on the rails when the train, a freight train, rushed in.
I was there at the site.
The train come in very fast with 100 kilometers per hour.
It's about approximately like 60, 70 miles per hour.
So they pass quite fast, and she was pushed in front of this train by an Iraqi asylum seeker who was illegal in this country, who needed to be deported.
But he stayed in the country.
And this young little girl, she never met this guy before.
She didn't know him as a, she was not related.
She was not close to him.
She was just a suspect.
I'm sorry.
She was just a victim in this situation because she was there at the time when this guy was there.
And this is especially very horrific to see.
I met the mother.
She was completely crushed.
She was done.
You could see how big this impact was or still is on the family.
That was the only girl they had.
Liana has also two brothers yet, younger brothers.
Only the mother handled to talk to us because she sought for justice.
And because in the beginning, the police didn't even know that there was a murder.
They thought it was maybe a suicide.
Maybe there was just an accident.
She was caught by wind, they told the mother.
And there were no cameras.
So there was nothing could tell, okay, this girl was pushed there.
There was only one thing, one little hint what brought this all to light.
This girl was on the phone with her grandfather, and he just heard her scream in the last second.
And he was in Ukraine, by the way.
He's in Ukraine.
Yeah, what's happening?
And then he heard that incident happening.
ben harnwell ▲ ● ▼
So if it hadn't been for that fact that she'd been on the phone at the time, this would have just been entered, sort of consumed into suicide statistics.
Vadim, I'd like to point this out to our largely American audience here.
These kind of stories are happening every day.
I know this is the one that's really captured German attention right now, but these kinds of stories are violent crime, especially against young girls, but not exclusively girls, also against young boys.
But these kind of things are happening every day, not only in Germany, but right across the European continent right now, because of the Third World illegal invasion.
How has the response to this, obviously because it is a lot in the news, what has been the response of the various political parties to this brutal murder?
vadim derksen ▲ ● ▼
So there was a different response from different parties.
The first thing what the mother did, she wanted to have justice and she wanted to know what happened to her girl.
So she went to the politicians there.
She went to the local chapter of the CDU, the leading party of Chancellor Mertz, And she asked them to help them.
And they said, well, why are you asking?
Let the police do their work.
By the way, we are raising money for you for the funeral.
What else do you need?
And she was just devastated.
She was in shock hearing that.
So she went just to the next party, to the opposition party, which was the office was right next to it.
And they helped them.
They just posted something online.
They asked for help for people who might have seen something.
And this all of the sudden brought some, started to change and bring some publicity to this case.
But till now, we have in the local parliament, the leftists are ruling there.
They don't want to have a, even, let's say the centrist right wing, centrist right, like the CDU, they wanted to have like kind of what's called the, I'm sorry, the kind of commission there to find out what happened there.
And they had to vote if they want to start this commission.
And they voted all against it, except for the AFD.
ben harnwell ▲ ● ▼
And the AFD, before you tell me about how the AFD are doing right now, because I think they're sort of number one in the polls, tell me more about the AFD response, the alternative for Deutschland.
vadim derksen ▲ ● ▼
Yes, the thing is, she went not only to the AFD, but she went to the nightmare of the leftist.
His name is Bjorn Hoke, and he is painted as really the darkest, the most evil politicians of the AFD.
And his office was right there.
And the mother went there and she doesn't know any of the politics.
She doesn't know what's the system in here.
She just saw a sign of a political party and she asked for help.
And the party helped.
And they brought it to light.
And only the publicity and the pressure from the media, from the alternative media, helped to discover what actually happened in this case there.
So the AFD was pushing it and transporting it over social media and thanks to Elon Musk also to the platforms like X, to the publicity of the German people.
ben harnwell ▲ ● ▼
So we're actually trying to get Bjorn Hocker on the show.
We're liaising with his office.
I like the fact that you say that this isn't just any old AFD guy.
This is the nightmare as far as the left is concerned for his positions.
And he is absolutely excellent.
Tell me about how the popular sentiment in Germany is growing against the third world illegal invasion right now.
We're seeing pictures from the UK.
Tommy Robinson had 3 million people out in London a couple of weeks ago.
And the position is arguably even worse in Germany.
vadim derksen ▲ ● ▼
Actually, we have an anniversary just a few weeks ago, the 10 years open border politics of Angela Merkel.
And we just brought all the numbers together.
And I want to just show you some charts of it.
I think this is very interesting also for the Americans to see what actually happened in this 10 years after.
We see here, for example, you can see this peak here.
This is the asylum seekers.
And this is 2015 was the highest peak when the asylum seekers came into Germany.
But the number came down a little bit after that, but it stayed higher than previously ever.
So they're still coming in, and there's another peak.
That's when the leftists took over.
So they are coming into the country without any control.
And this is just the crossing borders.
So that means all this peak there.
They are not going back.
They're all staying in Germany.
What made it to the crime scene?
We have this number here.
These numbers are very interesting.
This is the sexual assault.
I mean, you see the dark blue, that's the German citizen committing crime, sexual crime.
The red ones are the immigrants living here.
And the yellow ones on top, these are only asylum seekers.
And here you see on 2024, they add up, like they commit the same amount of crime, sexual crime, as the German citizens.
Although they make only from the German society, they probably make 10% or so.
And in this dark blue German column, they are also immigrants which became Germans over time.
And this is also an interesting chart to see.
This is the chart showing all the numbers of asylum seekers becoming German.
And this one here, the blue rise here, this is the migration of or becoming Germans of Syrian refugees.
So in the next years, when there's more crime coming in, in the German statistics, you won't see the Syrian asylum seekers anymore because they have the German passport.
And this takes different aspects in all of our society.
ben harnwell ▲ ● ▼
That could already be to some extent a phenomenon right now.
Stand by, Vadim.
I'm going to ask you something about, I've seen something interesting on the left of the German political spectrum, which is responding to some extent to the, a very small extent, to the invasion.
I'll ask you about that in just two minutes, but stand by.
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That's Bannon, B-A-D-N-O-N to 989898.
And there is something else I want to quickly mention to do with home title lock.
I don't know if you guys saw this story that was in the press a couple of days ago to do with Graceland, the historic home of Elvis Presley, that a Missouri woman was sentenced this week to four years in federal prison for scheming to defraud Elvis Presley's family by trying to auction off his Graceland home and property before a judge halted it.
So look, that went quite far.
And this is obviously to do with exactly what we're talking about all the time, our home title lock.
And if someone can get so far advanced in flogging off Graceland, then of course the point is they can do this to you or to me.
So that's the importance here.
That's how key this is.
What you need to do if you want a free title history report on your property or even the free 14-day trial of home title lock.
So go to home titlelock.com and use promo code Steve for your 14-day free trial and do ask them about that triple lock protection.
So let's carry on now with the show.
And Vadim, what I wanted to ask you was about this social democrat politician called the Trump of Duisburg, Soren Link, who defeated the AFD.
Now, obviously, on the war room, we're cheerleading for the AFD because we see the alternative for Germany as being the principal party that's going to shake the political class in Germany out of its quagmire.
But this is interesting because this guy did beat the AFD and he does appear to have a more hardline position on immigration than the AFD.
Tell me about that.
Am I right in that?
And how unusual is it to have someone in the Socialist Party in Germany pushing an anti-immigration position?
vadim derksen ▲ ● ▼
The parties, they have it actually very, there's a tough moment for them, for the old parties, even pushing now against illegal immigration.
We see, for example, also with the new Chancellor Mertz who said there's going to be a massive change.
There is going to be a 100-degree change of migration policy.
He distanced himself from Angela Merkel.
This all didn't help.
The AFD is still on the rise.
The AFD, the party, grew 5% more in comparison to the beginning of this year after the elections.
Now they are number one.
On the ground basis, let's say, in the cities where the mayors to be elected and so on, in these kind of elections, it's harder for the EFD because they need more than 50%.
And it's easier for the older parties to gather all the candidates or the votes of the oppositions against the AFD against the AFD.
And this helps them then to get their own mayors and so on.
So this is the hardest, the toughest ground for the AFD still on the local elections.
But let's say on the federal elections, and some of the, we have like states, 16 states, we're going to have five elections next year.
Three elections of them are going to be in the eastern part of Germany.
And the AFD is on top there.
They have now in the polls like 39%, 38%.
They're leading with a big gap to the second party.
And this is a major problem for the CDU, for the SPD, because they need only like we have a 5% threshold when you come into the parliament.
That means you need only 40, 45% to have 50% of the parliament.
So the AFD could actually rule completely alone on its own without any coalition, maybe next year in some of the states.
ben harnwell ▲ ● ▼
Look, in the final couple of minutes of the show, just tell me how Chancellor Mertz has collapsed so spectacularly quickly, having been in office just for a few months now.
How has that been perceived in Germany?
vadim derksen ▲ ● ▼
The biggest value of a politician in politics is trust.
And he said there's going to be a massive change.
And this change, he didn't provide it.
Actually, he even switched his complete position, which he had before the elections.
He switched it over.
And now, like, say, with the debts, the government gets debts.
He said, we're not going to raise more debts.
But he did.
He took the biggest debt in history of a chancellor.
So this raised also big critiques inside of the CDU.
The conservative parts of the CDU are now upset with him.
And so the trust is gone.
Nobody really believes that he can actually bring the change he promised.
So, and this is the major problem.
The old parties are on the fall, they go down.
The AFD is on the rise.
And it's a new hope.
And we see it here also.
We have a chart, by the way, also for this one.
You see how the mood against migration changed over the last 10 years.
So here, the green one, you see, they agreed like 45% said it is good to have migration in Germany.
That was 2015.
It was still a minority.
The majority said it's wrong.
But Angela Merkel and so on, they did it what they did.
Now, 10 years later, we have in the polls, only 27, 28% say migration is okay.
Open the borders is okay.
So the big, vast majority of almost 73% say no, close the borders.
And they don't.
And this is a big issue.
And what happens is this.
You see the AFD on the rise.
ben harnwell ▲ ● ▼
Yeah.
This is a point that we make time and time and time again on the war rate.
It doesn't matter whether you're talking about Germany, the UK, or America.
It's this third world illegal invasion that is really the motor that is driving people towards the various populist nationalist political iterations right across the West.
And that's going to continue being the case in Germany.
That's why the future for the AFD, the alternative for Germany, the alternative for Deutschland has such a rosy future ahead of it.
Vadim, thanks for coming on the show.
I know from personal experience, going on to media and talking in a second language is always a more stressful thing than talking in your own language.
You've done absolutely magnificently.
Thanks for sharing the situation with us.
Very, very quickly, where do people go on social media to keep up with Junger Freiheit and your writings?
vadim derksen ▲ ● ▼
You can find us on X at June Freiheit, which means young freedom in German.
And my name is Real Dirksen.
ben harnwell ▲ ● ▼
Just give those X handles once again.
vadim derksen ▲ ● ▼
Yep, Real Dirksen is my social and Jungfire at June Fire at X. Vadim Dirksen, thanks very much for coming on the show.
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