Sept. 6, 2025 - Bannon's War Room
47:48
Participants
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| This is the primal scream of a dying regime. | ||
| Pray for our enemies. | ||
| Because we're going medieval on these people. | ||
| I got a free shot on all these networks lying about the people. | ||
| The people have had a belly full of it. | ||
| I know you don't like hearing that. | ||
| I know you try to do everything in the world to stop that, but you're not gonna stop it. | ||
| It's going to happen. | ||
| And where do people like that go to share the big line? | ||
| Mega media. | ||
| I wish in my soul, I wish that any of these people had a conscience. | ||
| Ask yourself, what is my task and what is my purpose? | ||
| If that answer is to save my country, this country will be saved. | ||
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War room. | |
| Stephen K. Vance Friday, 5th of September, and Domini 2025. | ||
| Well, folks, you might have seen over recent press coverage right across the world in the UK, um, in uh in Austria, there are um in France, there are increasing numbers of anti-migrant anti-invader protest breaking out. | ||
| Well, that's also the case in Spain, and specifically in I think in Madrid and Barcelona have had a number of anti-migrant protests. | ||
| Um recently there was this specific case uh in um in uh just outside of Madrid where a guy of uh Moroccan extraction raped a young girl accused of raping uh a young girl, | ||
| uh, and that kicked off a particularly aggressive protest around uh the first reception center. | ||
| Now, with me to break this down uh and to describe some of the local sentiment, is someone I met about six months ago in Rome at uh at a Fort Sanova conference. | ||
| Uh Gonzalo Martin, who is vice president of Democracia Nacional, National Democracy. | ||
| Gonzalo, welcome on to the show. | ||
| I hope I pronounced that reasonably satisfactorily. | ||
| Why don't you um start off and explain just what has happened at this migrant center uh and then go on to say what the local reaction has been. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| In Spain, we have many centers for um uh immigrants, minors, and a companion that they are usually the outsides of the big cities in the proletarian uh neighborhoods, and in this case in Hortaleta is a neighborhood of Madrid, | ||
| not um in the center, it's a little bit far away from the center, and since many months we were accusing the government of Madrid and the government of Spain to bring all these uh immigrants that they don't want to adapt and they don't want to integrate in Spain, they're supposed to be minors, but we are not sure if they are minors because when they enter Spain they break their passport, and we never know the real age of them. | ||
| And when the doctors come to make some DNA test to verify if they are minors or not, sometimes it's difficult to know because there is a gap of two years, and most part of times they are not even minors. | ||
| So, in this case, these people with our money with uh with the money of our taxes, they are living from us, and they have this uh kind of summer camp holidays in these uh centers in the in this case it is in the in Madrid, and they are free during the day, | ||
| and of course they are around the neighborhood stealing, they are harassing people, and in the this particular case, there was this uh migrant, 17 years old raping a Spanish girl, 14 years old. | ||
| And uh, this is uh not the first time something like this is happening, it's happening more often than the journalists says uh say, of course, because they don't want to make uh publicity out of this, but it's something that is happening continuously in all these uh immigrant centers because these people, as I said, they are coming the the worst of uh those countries, and they they don't have any kind of respect for Spanish people, and of course, uh, neither for the Spanish women. | ||
| So this is uh have uh have been uh used by the uh extreme left uh to accuse uh the neighbors of the neighborhood of Fortaleza of being racist because they were protesting, because they want to be living in the neighborhood like always uh really relaxed neighborhood without problems where you can walk uh your dog, | ||
| going with your family to the park, but nowadays it's impossible due to all these uh immigrants that they are uh harassing and attacking local people, not only young girls, also old people stealing from them, the necklace, bracelets, uh watches, everything. | ||
| So in this case, it's um you it became more popular, this uh incident due to the fact that they're accusing two guys that they were with a mask of attacking uh another three immigrants after what happened to to this Spanish girl. | ||
| But uh they don't never talk about all these times, all the uh all the problems that we are having with them and all the women that have been uh raped and harassed, and they are of course never in public TV talking about this because they are afraid that people wake up and that there is a kind of riot against all this migrant policy from the Spanish government. | ||
| Okay, Gonzalo, let me ask you this, because frequently on the warm, one of the points that we that we make, what that we repeatedly make, is that it's really the um the center right political party that is responsible historically for a lot of what's um the the the huge influxes of um migration. | ||
| Um what has been, and we often say, like, for example, in the Spanish context, really that the the the popular party um isn't a center-right political party whatsoever. | ||
| And this is the same like the the mainstream Republicans in America or the Tories in the UK. | ||
| Um they really sort of it's just basically uh that these are vehicles and instruments that have been hijacked by globalist elites, and the consequence of that over many decades you've had the formation of new political parties, um, which the press will obviously turn as being far right, such as uh Democracia Nacional, such as Vox, obviously. | ||
| Um tell me what the response has been, because you have the socialists on the left um who are in control at the moment, and they're obviously panicking. | ||
| You know that they're panicking, because as we go on into the conversation discussing like this, the judiciary is clamping down on the popular protest, saying that they're sparking anti-immigrant sentiment, as if that sentiment didn't actually exist anyway. | ||
| Tell me, however, I want the audience to hear you in your words describe the real difference on the right of the political spectrum between the popular party and then between your party, uh Democracia National and Vox as well, because both of you, both you and Vox have been suppressed in your ability to organize protests. | ||
| Um, but tell me, I really just want to drill down on the thing here about the the center right. | ||
| Tell me about the popular party and what its position has been in the face of these protests. | ||
| Well, the popular party, they are of course, uh the region um Spain is almost a federal state. | ||
| So um we have like 17 uh states inside of this, what they call autonomous community, and Madrid is one of them. | ||
| So it's like an independent state inside of the Spanish state. | ||
| So the government of Madrid is uh right wing with popular party, and the general government of Spain is socialist. | ||
| So they have this war, they use immigration to attack each other. | ||
| So what uh the socialist party is doing is now taking these minor, these immigrants from especially from Canary Island, and they distribute them around uh in Spain uh through communities, but of course, they always take more immigrants to the communities where the socialist party is not in power. | ||
| So in this case, they bring more to Madrid and for example to Catalonia, because in Catalonia are the socialists, the socialism power. | ||
| So they use it as a weapon against them because of course they know that nobody wants to have the immigrants, and nobody wants that these minors or that they are not even minors coming to the neighborhood and doing what they do. | ||
| Nobody wants them. | ||
| So the popular party, what they do what they do is to say that they don't have enough money to provide to these immigrants a good life, that they will need more money from the central government, but of course they don't receive it because they are political rivals, and they only use this uh speech um against the central government about money, about the conditions of the these uh centers for immigrants, and they don't talk about the root of the problem is the immigration. | ||
| And I want to give um important point about all this uh um immigration uh history in Spain. | ||
| The socialist government was uh the socialist party was in the Spanish ruling Spain till 1996. | ||
| Since the Franco death, we had mostly only socialist uh governments till 1996. | ||
| In 1995, one year before the popular party ruled Spain, uh during eight years, consecutive uh eight years, um in Spain we had half million immigrants. | ||
| Uh in 2005, that the popular party was already in power for um seven years, sorry, no, for were in power for for 10 years. | ||
| We had in Spain, we passed from half million immigrants to five million immigrants, and this was with the popular party. | ||
| So when uh right wing people in Spain they say, oh, the socialists are the one bringing the immigrants, it's not true. | ||
| It's the popular party, because the popular party, as you said, they are part of the elite, and of course there are many entrepreneurs that want to bring all this cheap labor hand to Spain. | ||
| Gonzalo, the the this point is so important to get a correct understanding of what is happening in Europe, because it's exactly the same situation, sort of 10 years later with Angela Merkel in Germany. | ||
| Again, you have someone supposedly of the center right, but not remotely in reality, then you have the creation of parties to the right of the so-called inverted commerce, to the right of the um of the the Christian democrat union, for example, the alternative for Deutschland and the government there, this especially the judiciary trying to suppress the um the ADF. | ||
| Um is the same thing in Spain. | ||
| Important folks that here in continental Europe, it is really the center-right political party that is to blame for a lot of the the invasion, the third world invasion that is that is overrunning us here. | ||
| Um currently, correct me if I'm wrong, it's Isabel Ayuzo who's the president of the um of the local regional government, popular, she's the popular party. | ||
| I've seen some of her responses to these protests, and they seem to be pretty performative. | ||
| That is to say, they try to she's trying uh with a few weak words say look, well, perhaps this guy is maladapted, perhaps this guy, this rapist needs to be um returned with some 37 others. | ||
| But if you're talking about 37 people, as you're saying out of five million, and that was sort of sort of 20 years ago, that's not going to solve the problem, it's not even going to have any serious um amelioration of the condition whatsoever. | ||
| It it is total theater. | ||
| Our people in Spain, are people here by the Torre Pacheco where these protests um are uh the Sweden protests are um flaring up? | ||
| Are people do they realize do they accept that the popular party is simply part of the problem here? | ||
| Um and that's why they're looking towards you and towards Vox for a new alternative, or do these words actually carry some weight? | ||
| Well, uh people are changing, of course, but they still is not the same the people voting for popular party in big cities that then people voting for popular party in the rural areas. | ||
| People in rural areas sometimes they don't have uh, for example, a party like Vox that is much bigger than my party, Democracia Nacional, they don't have maybe enough candidates. | ||
| So, as happened in the village of my father, uh not far away from Madrid in Toledo. | ||
| You have only like the communist, the socialists and the popular party run into elections. | ||
| There is not even the candidate of Vox. | ||
| So people in the countryside, they still have this mentality of the Spanish civil war that it was between communists and anti-Spanish against right wing and patriotic and fascist, you know, in the Spanish civil war. | ||
| So in Spain, many people in the rural rural areas, they still think that is this the blues, so in this case the blue are the nacionalists against the reds, no? | ||
| And it's not like this anymore, because the popular party is the same problem for Spain, it represents the same problem for Spain than the Socialist Party. | ||
| But in the rural areas, they usually have a little bit more radical speech. | ||
| And it's it's common to meet some of the candidates of the popular party in a bar with uh pictures of uh Franco, for example, and cheering viva Spanish or something like this, that in big cities they wouldn't do this. | ||
| So they still lie to people and they still believe making them believe that they are the good ones, but of course they are not. | ||
| And uh people are waking, of course. | ||
| We, my party Democratia Nacional, we are fighting uh for Spain, and we are denouncing the situation with immigrations since 1995, and our first slogan was the Spanish first. | ||
| And now Vox that came later, copy this uh slogan from us and many other things. | ||
| What I consider is good because what we want is people to wake up. | ||
| So I can say that more or less 20%, 15-20% of Spanish people are already um tired of the popular party, they don't believe in them anymore, and they um they will vote for Vox, for example. | ||
| And many of the people voting for Vox, they don't know us. | ||
| They heard about us or some slogans or or some political campaigns that we did uh back then, and now Vox is taking advantage of all the work we were doing in during 30 years. | ||
| It's no problem about that because we are not here for for the salary. | ||
| We are totally uh people uh that we are fighting for our country and we want the best. | ||
| So in this case, Vox is the one who is taking advantage of all these years of work of many patriots, it's okay. | ||
| But uh, yes, people are changing mentality in some places, especially where there are so many immigrants, and they listen what the uh what the popular uh party politicians are saying, uh saying that we need uh from now till 2050, 37 million immigrants in Spain, they said for the pensions to be paid. | ||
| So people are saying, how can you say we need 37 million more of immigrants? | ||
| We are we are already like we have already like 12, 14 million immigrants in Spain, and we are becoming the minority. | ||
| So some people they are seeing it. | ||
| Uh in other cases, like my parents, they are from a big city, are from Madrid, they will vote for popular party always because they live in a good area, they don't suffer immigration like in other parts of Madrid, for example, and they still thinking that Vox maybe is too radical, for example. | ||
| Let me let that that 37 million figure seems to me an incredible number. | ||
| I think a million Syrians were taken in by um by Angela Merkel. | ||
| Million and a half years ago. | ||
| A million half, and that fundamentally changed the political landscape in Germany. | ||
| That that really created the AFD phenomenon that in itself. | ||
| That's a million and a half, and Germany is a lot larger country than Spain. | ||
| That 37, what is the population of Spain right now? | ||
| It's about like 65 million, less, less. | ||
| We are officially, I think 48 million, but you have to know. | ||
| Uh, I will give some tips really really fast about uh the Spanish situation. | ||
| As I said, in 1995, we had half a million immigrants and we were 39 million Spaniards. | ||
| And uh back then, already in 1995, we had already more deaths than people getting born in Spain. | ||
| So it means that we didn't recover from that. | ||
| From that time, we are having less and less children in Spain from native Spanish people, and we have more people dying and talking about native Spanish people. | ||
| So all the growth of population in Spain in the last 30 years, if we were 39 million uh people in 1995, and now we are officially 48, all the growth is 100% from immigration. | ||
| So it's not only 9 million more people living in Spain, it's 9 million more than 1995 by taking into account that there are more people dying than getting born in Spain. | ||
| Uh we we can we were calculating more or less the real population, the real figures of the immigrant population in Spain, and we can say that maybe from this um 48 million people living in Spain, 14 are already immigrants. | ||
| Because we have also the problem that um with the Spanish constitution in the hands, is written in the Spanish constitution that all the people coming from countries that belongs that used to belong part uh to of the Spanish Empire, so all uh America, um some countries in Africa, the Philippines. | ||
| When they come to Spain and they say legally two years, after two years, they can already start the procedure to become to be to become a Spanish, to have the Spanish nationality. | ||
| So after three years in Spain, they are already a Spanish like me officially, and these people disappear from the statistics from everything. | ||
| So when they say that one Spanish uh guy was raping um a woman, probably it was not the Spanish. | ||
| He has only the Spanish nationality. | ||
| So with uh this constitution we have in Spain, it's very difficult to know who is a Spanish and who is not. | ||
| The only statistic that you can find uh that is talking about the reading of the immigration of the people living in Spain, because in Spain it's forbidden to make statistics uh according to the race, it's totally forbidden. | ||
| The only statistic that you can find on on Google is that in Spain they are around 9 million and a half people that were not born in Spain. | ||
| So 9 million and a half were not born in Spain, it means that they are immigrants. | ||
| But what happened with all the children they are having here in the last 30 years? | ||
| So this is why I'm saying that we are 14 million, we have 14 million of immigrants, and we have also half million, more or less, I think is even more half million of illegal immigrants that they are not part of the statistics. | ||
| I'm gonna drill down on that in just one moment. | ||
| So stand by if you wouldn't mind, Gonzalo, and we'll come back to this. | ||
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| Well, Gonzalo, we we've got about three minutes left of this. | ||
| Um just tell me if you wouldn't mind since we spoke about the collapse and degradation, degradation of the center right of the popular party. | ||
| Just give me two minutes, if you will, on um on the left on the socialists. | ||
| I saw that Francisco Martin um came out with the statement that it's unacceptable to criminalize vulnerable populations, and this really just shows you the priorities of these people. | ||
| There's nobody apparently in the center right or center left. | ||
| That's uh that's worried about the the uh the vulnerable population, which are ordinary working class Spaniards. | ||
| Just give me your tell me how is it going down on the ground with blue-collar workers with working class people in Spain to hear this from the elites and the fact that if you think it's about already, if you think it's bad in Germany, just wait to see what will happen when they bring in 37 million people. | ||
| Um, which of course won't just remain in Spain, they're gonna travel all over the continent. | ||
| That is gonna be that will be fundamentally transformative. | ||
| But just first give me your in your closing remarks, give me your reaction. | ||
| Um, and tell me how this goes down with ordinary working class Spaniards who are trying to make it to the end of the month. | ||
| So, yes, you are right. | ||
| I think in Spain is happening a little bit what's uh what happened in France with uh Front Nacional. | ||
| Many people, many workers, they saw that the left, the leftists, the left-wing parties, they were giving priority always to uh foreigners, and they saw how the conditions they were going worse and worse, the salaries they were standing, and they were earning the same the last 20 years, like it's happening in Spain, and there are many people waking up and they don't look anymore to the left. | ||
| People that they were um in the family, they were all communist. | ||
| Now they are changing, and many of them they start to support, for example, uh Vox. | ||
| That as I said, Vox is just uh taking advantage of the work of many years of people like us that we were saying that immigration is a problem. | ||
| So uh there are many, there are more and more in the case, for example, of Democracia Nacional, when we were running to elections, we usually get more votes in the uh proletarian areas than the bourgeois areas. | ||
| So, working class people that are the the ones who are uh suffering the immigration, they are the ones who uh face all these problems and they know how they are, and they know how it's not cool and multicultural to have neighbors above living on your uh from above of your apartment from Dominican uh Republic listening to music 24 hours or gypsies on your left or uh some Arabs uh with uh praying and people that are living with those immigrants, | ||
| they are uh working class uh people, and of course they they see that they are totally uh abandoned by by the left because the leftists they only care about the the immigrants, and uh, in the case of my party of Democracia Nacional, many, the most part of us. | ||
| I can say that we are working class people, we have really humble jobs, and because we are the ones who live with the immigration. | ||
| Gonzalo, 60 seconds on this, uh and and then we have to end 60 seconds. | ||
| When Spaniards are seeing that these protests are being suppressed by judicial order under the accusation that they will just inflame um anti-migrant sentiment. | ||
| Does that make people more enthusiastic towards supporting you or less enthusiastic? | ||
| Let's say that boomers they were always afraid of the law, and people that they are younger, they don't care anymore. | ||
| They are sometimes so tired of the situation that every time that there is a protest uh like this. | ||
| If you see what the journalists, when they are asking to people protesting, people that they are boomers or they are older, they always say, I'm not racist, I'm not racist, I'm just here because we don't want to have them here in the neighborhood. | ||
| So the problem for them is that they don't want to have them in the neighborhood. | ||
| They want that they move the immigrant center to other neighborhoods. | ||
| But if you listen to the young people, these young people they say we don't want them in Spain. | ||
| We want them to send them back to the country. | ||
| So people are so so tired of this situation that especially young people, they don't care anymore about being accused of being racist, fascist, or whatever. | ||
| They say these people they will never integrate. | ||
| We don't want that they come to Spain, we don't want that they stay here, we don't want that uh to provide everything for them that they will be so ungrateful for us in the future, as they are doing. | ||
| We just want them to kick them out. | ||
| We want them that they come back to the country, and many people they start to see it and it's less political and correct. | ||
| Now, many people they are they feel free to say it. | ||
| Maybe 20 years ago, if you would say yes to control immigration, you will consider a racist and really dangerous racist. | ||
| Gonzalo, we have to stop there. | ||
| Sadly, we could go on. | ||
| Just very, very quickly. | ||
| What's your social media? | ||
| Where can people get hold of you and democracy at Nacional? | ||
| You can follow us in the Telegram, in T and Twitter, Democracia Nacional. | ||
| We have also a website, Democracia Nacional.es, and we are very active, and uh we have really interesting programs. | ||
| Also, we have a radio program called Aquila Bod Europa. | ||
| I invite you all to to listen to us. | ||
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| Well, my next guest, Ed West, is a British journalist and commentator. | ||
| He's written for The Daily Telegraph, The Spectator. | ||
| And his most recent book is Small Men on the Wrong Side of History. | ||
| And the wrong side of history is the name of his substack. | ||
| And from that, there is a very important article that we'll be pushing out on our social media. | ||
| And that's Ed, why we've got you on the show today to talk us through this, some of the points here, which you've in a great genius fashion, you've tied together a number of themes here. | ||
| Really to do with the phenomenon that's rolling across the UK right now, across England specifically about the raising of the flags. | ||
| Firstly, however, in your article, you you just mention your own borough of Crouch End. | ||
| Um and you quite well described the phenomenon. | ||
| Uh, before you go on to say how these left-wing councils are ripping down the flag of St. George, the English flag, which is for American audience, it's just the white background with the red cross on the middle of it. | ||
| Um before going on to that, you start off by saying what the situation is with the Palestinian flag. | ||
| Um just why don't you say that in your own words to give uh a description of what your thesis is, and then we'll take it from there. | ||
| Well, thanks very much for having me on. | ||
| That's very kind words. | ||
| Uh I I mentioned um my own area, which is an area of um a sort of upper middle class, liberal-leaning uh neighborhoods in in North London. | ||
| I think we had one of the highest remain votes in the referendum. | ||
| Uh, and like uh lots of parts of London, you see a lot of Palestinian flags, sometimes people's windows. | ||
| Um, but in other parts of the countries, you've you've seen the Palestinian flags uh on flagposts. | ||
| It's been started. | ||
| This started out in 2023 with the war. | ||
| Um, and it has sort of two meanings. | ||
| In some ways, it sort of signifies a kind of a kind of middle class left-wing solidarity with uh, you know, the the Bretch of the Earth and you know against colonial injustice, whatever. | ||
| But in other parts of the country, it has a much more sort of territorial feel. | ||
| It's signifies, I suppose that this is a kind of the predominantly Muslim area, and some shopkeepers have even said that they feel they have to put up the Palestinian flag in their shops because otherwise they might be intimidated. | ||
| And so there are parts of the country where you know row after row of houses has the Palestinian flag, and some people have come to see this as having a slight territorial feel to it. | ||
| Um and in two parts of the country in particular, it's been noted Tower Hamlets is a bar in East London, it has a uh a very large Bangladeshi Muslim population, and and the bar is run by a small party, which is basically Bangladeshi led. | ||
| And they had Palestinian flags hanging up from lampposts all over the area. | ||
| And a lot of them some of the residents have complained. | ||
| It has historically a very um it was originally have complained and said they found it intimidating. | ||
| The council refused to take down the flags, and they said they were a symbol of international solidarity until the government forced them to do it. | ||
| Um it also happened in Birmingham. | ||
| Birmingham is the major British city with the largest Muslim population. | ||
| In fact, I think it's projected to become at some point Muslim majority. | ||
| Uh, and again, the council there refused to take down the Palestinian flags. | ||
| And they also said, in fact, both councils said that they couldn't take down the flags without police backup because there'd be tensions within the community, in which case, you know, they'd be worried they'd be fighting about it. | ||
| And both flags. | ||
| So since this uh recent thing started, yeah, starts to do that. | ||
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So Ed, just to just to stop you there. | |
| When it comes to the Palestinian flag, and you're mentioning um Tower Hamlets, which has a 40% Muslim population there, uh, and you mentioned the Bengali dominated uh aspire party. | ||
| Um so when it comes to taking down from the public roundabouts and public buildings, all the rest of it, the Palestinian flag. | ||
| You can't do that just by you know that there are issues there. | ||
| No concerns about health and safety on the Palestinian flags, right? | ||
| That's the point I want to underline here. | ||
| No, the council's not saying no, you know, right. | ||
| We we you know we the issue, you know, that these things are a threat to public safety, literally health and safety dynamic there. | ||
| That's not being called into question right now. | ||
| Yeah, they're not that will be called into question, of course, as as we proceed with our conversation here. | ||
| Um let's do that. | ||
| Let's talk about the operation raise the colours. | ||
| We had uh the the beginning of the show, just a quick segment of what's going on across the UK. | ||
| Many people who've been active on social media uh of the war and posse will see some of these things being thrown up, for example, on YouTube, short clips of people just going out by themselves, not necessarily raising flags, even just painting the red cross uh on white walls, which of course the council will then come in and come along in due course and paint over. | ||
| Tell us about Operation Raise the Colours first, and then we'll talk about the the the sudden out of nowhere concern for health and safety. | ||
| Um it just starts seems to start spontaneously just outside of Birmingham, um, just south of Birmingham in an area uh on the fringe of the city, people started uh literally just raising flags on lampposts, and then it suddenly spread. | ||
| Uh York is a big uh movement there, other cities like um Southampton, I think Norwich has seen them, and also in Tower Hamlets um in an area called the Isle of Dogs. | ||
| There have been flags going up. | ||
| Uh and and bear in mind the background to this is the uh there have been protests all over the summer about the placement of um asylum seekers, stroke illegal migrants, whatever you want to call them, uh, in hotels across the country. | ||
| Because there are so many coming over, the government has basically bought up lots of hotels and um just filled in with lots of sort of random guys, and the Isle of Dogs is one uh one such a location where there have been protests by local residents about these uh guys, and so the flag movement has kind of arisen out of this as a kind of civil protest. | ||
| And um, yeah, and obviously in this case, the councils are much keener to get rid of these flags. | ||
| Um it's become all of a sudden a health and safety issue, having um people raise uh English English and British flags up and down lampposts, and also in roundabouts as well. | ||
| Do you know they've been painting them? | ||
| Although these councils which which are bankrupt and have no money, suddenly find the money out of nowhere to do the most essential work possible, not fully covering in potholes, but painting over the the cross of St. George. | ||
|
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Um I'm gonna ask you some of these mentioning. | |
| If you want to get rid of a pothole, you can just paint an flag on it and then they'll come and fix it, fill it in, no problem. | ||
| That's that's what that's what they're concerned about. | ||
| I'm gonna ask you about the next theme that you raise in your article, which is how the flag of St. George and the Union Jack, the Union flag, um became co-opted by the far right, because there's an important dynamic there. | ||
| But first, I just want to quickly mention Jim Rickards. | ||
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| So Ed, just give us uh an analysis, especially for our largely American audience. | ||
| How did this happen? | ||
| Um did this happen in a vacuum, or was it also the dynamic that the centre-left, the centre-right, uh abandoned these flags because perhaps they were ashamed of Britain's history and heritage. | ||
| Um we have to understand the British uh kind of elites have always been much more uncomfortable with their flag, even compared to American or French elites. | ||
| You remember the American and the and the French flags came out of liberal revolutions, while the British flag uh doesn't have any kind of you know, it's quite visceral, it's it's literally a Christian symbol. | ||
| And um and the left have always been quite uncomfortable with it, especially since about the 1970s when they thought of it as being associated with the sort of far-right national front and you know, hooligans and thugs. | ||
| Um they there was a kind of attempt to kind of claim it back as a sort of left-wing symbol. | ||
| Uh, and bear in mind the flag has a different context. | ||
| So, you know, the the Prime Minister will happily be seen with the British flag. | ||
| The English flag is a bit more I suppose proletarian is the way to describe it. | ||
| But people fly the English flag during football tournaments, for instance, and the Prime Minister will be seen with it. | ||
| But it depends on the context in any situation. | ||
| Once once you see a kind of lots, you know, once you see people protesting about immigration who also carrying the English flag, then they start to get very uncomfortable. | ||
| And remember, I mean, especially in England, a lot of this has a kind of class dimension as well. | ||
| There's this kind of fear of you know, these kind of thugs, these working class thugs who do you know, running around the flag, and they're the kind of people we're scared of naturally. | ||
| So there is that kind of visceral discomfort with the especially the English flag, but but to a lesser extent the British flag. | ||
| Ed, let me ask you about that. | ||
| And of course, the other thing that perhaps Americans will be familiar with is the last night of the promps. | ||
| And that's probably the only other time you might see um the English flag waving, of course, along with the Union Jack as well. | ||
| Um you mentioned the same thing. | ||
| So they didn't wave the EU flag as well, the last night of Proms now. | ||
| So that is a different. | ||
| You know, there are flags everywhere. | ||
| There's the Ukraine flag, the pride flag, the EU flag, they all have different kinds of political and social economic uh context. | ||
| Of course, that's the point, right? | ||
| That they represent different things. | ||
| You mentioned something there that really is so important that people especially Brits, especially, you know, they they have a sort of visceral reaction normally against anything perceived as being extreme. | ||
| Um and the idea of uh the the English flag, the flag of St. George, being used in conjunction with anti-immigrant protests, will send a lot of people, um, it would have sent a lot of people uh in into uh into a uh uh a mood of paranoia and um and somewhat fear. | ||
| Now, my question to you, because that's a really important point. | ||
| I think that line has now been crossed. | ||
| I think now, and this is really thanks to social media, um, due to Instagram, YouTube, the messaging apps that people can communicate en masse with other people in an unmediated form. | ||
| I think the anger of what is happening now with with the the reception centres, the migrant centres, the migrant-based crime in England has passed that level in which people actually care about what other people think about them, whether they're going on anti-migrant protests where the English flag is being waved. | ||
| They've transcended that sense of that very English sense of fear of being associated with anything extreme. | ||
| And they actually think what is happening right now by our mainstream elites is more extreme than the social disapproval that might have come before. | ||
| How does that thesis strike you? | ||
| I think there's definitely a bit of a um you know respectability cascade as they as it's called about these issues. | ||
| They used to be um, you know, if only like thugs and and fascists turn up at an event, uh no one else is gonna turn up at the event, so then therefore it's only gonna be thugs and fascists. | ||
| There is definitely um like the protests that have been ongoing this summer, um, it's obvious that the kind of makeup is very different. | ||
| You know, last year's which were just rioting, basically. | ||
| The people who were involved in last year's disorders, if you looked at the cases, lots of them had repeated criminal records, they were mostly drunk. | ||
| Um, you know, it was a kind of an underclass protest, and um that's obviously not the case now. | ||
| You have sort of pretty normal people turning up there. | ||
| There, you know, that there is a huge difference, isn't there, between what people's reveals and their stated preferences are on all these issues. | ||
| Um people outside of sort of politeness or social status will say, you know, I think um you know, all these kind of social changes happening in the country are great, and I'm totally in favor of you know diversity and everything, but in their revealed preferences where they choose to live most obviously, they obviously don't agree with that. | ||
| Um and I don't think society, you know, a social system can't indefinitely survive if there is that great gap between what people say in public and what they actually believe and what they do. | ||
| I mean, the most obvious example is with communism, which is kind of different system, obviously, but you know, people all had to repeat the mantra at school and work, but no one believed it. | ||
| And I think there is that the importance of social media. | ||
| This is the importance of social media. | ||
| Um because you you suddenly learn, probably for the first time, that you're not the only person thinking things. | ||
| Because when the elites had all the basic when they owned the the means of production, as it were, for the culture, um they and they used that very effectively, they could condition people to think so everybody, half the country would be sitting there cowering in their living rooms thinking that they're the only person thinking it, and therefore they conform to what they expect and perceive to actually be the majority opinion. | ||
| Social media breaks that, it smashes it. | ||
| Um because you can now see someone saying something with a tweet or something on X, and that will get 10 million, 15 million, 20 million um views, and people know actually, oh wow, I didn't realise I was the only person who thought that. | ||
| There are others, and that's how you I I think for the first time people have had the courage to come back and do these protests, which beforehand they wouldn't have done because they don't want to be associated with the thugs um that that you were mentioning before, because especially the Brits have um have an innate uh dislike of anything that is perceived as being extremist. | ||
| Look, we've got about two or three minutes left, and I just want to flag up a phrase that you used in your last paragraph of this article, which is absolutely brilliant. | ||
| I don't know if you coined it yourself. | ||
| Um asymmetric multiculturalism. | ||
| Um, but that is absolutely brilliant. | ||
| Could you just explain what it is? | ||
| That's Eric Hoffman, the uh esteemed um academic uh and author that I I uh I've written about it his thesis before. | ||
| But it's brilliant, it's in his book um White Shift, and and it's definitely worth uh reading. | ||
| Could you just give give me like two minutes on what the thesis is behind asymmetric multiculturalism? | ||
| It's basically that uh modern diverse states basically rest on um rule rules where the majority and minority groups basically uh are treated in completely different ways. | ||
| Uh you know, in Britain this has become the the two-tier justice uh two-tier Kier kind of theme. | ||
| Uh, you know, minority identity has to be celebrated, majority nationalism has to be suppressed. | ||
| Um the attitude, you know, the the prejudice within those different communities is is treated in a very different way. | ||
| I mean, like a lot of these ideas, it was basically devised in Soviet Union. | ||
| They had exactly the same system where Russian national identity was suppressed. | ||
| Um, and the the Soviets encourage minority national identity as a kind of counterweight. | ||
| Um that's basically what we've got. | ||
| You know, um the British state is terrified of uh national majority nationalism and all it's you know, even our anti-extremism uh network is devised towards uh tracking supposedly nationalists' uh sentiments amongst the young white guys, even though Islamic extremism is way more of a natural threat, because that is what a system does. | ||
| Um and that is what the system is is I suppose most scared of, and probably with good reason. | ||
| Um but it's it's not it cannot last indefinitely. | ||
| You cannot treat two communities in a different way forever. | ||
| It just doesn't work as a as an idea or principle. | ||
| You can't if the the the community that you're that you're um pouring scorn is actually the is still just about the numerical majority. | ||
| Um final word to you, Ed West. | ||
| Do you think these protests are going to diminish with the passage of time, or will they start to increase? | ||
| Well, you have to take into account the British weather. | ||
| So every single revolution Britain has ever had has been stopped by the rain. | ||
| So um, no, I think I mean in the long term, the you know, the discontent and you know, as you say, the role of social media, you know, it's ironic that in 2011 Western commentators were saying about how social media was going to lead to you know big change in the Arab world, and and I think it's probably having quite a big effect in in Europe right now, um, which no one probably foresaw in the same kind of way. | ||
| You know, I think in the short term of the winter things will die down, but the kind of basic problems are there and and you know, ultimately getting worse. | ||
| Edwis, I I think I've been following you on Substack. | ||
| You you've got some great writing there. | ||
| Where do people go on social media? | ||
| No, no, no. | ||
| It's um absolutely fantastic. | ||
| I I I love reading your output. | ||
| Where do people go on social media um and substack to keep up with your analysis? | ||
| Uh my subsec address is just edwest.co.uk and my um Twitter is just Ed West's. | ||
| I mean, I think I'm on Blue Sky, but I stopped using it after about a week, so I you know, but yeah, go to Twitter. | ||
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Great. | |
| Ed West, very, very grateful. | ||
| I hope you'll come back on the show uh some point in the future to keep us impressed with your writings. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Thanks, Ed. | ||
| Thanks very much indeed. | ||
| That's all we've got time for now. | ||
| What the war will be back at 10am tomorrow. |
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