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May 21, 2025 - Bannon's War Room
48:42
Episode 4501: The Big Beautiful Bill; Building The Iron Dome
Participants
Main voices
r
rudy giuliani
11:20
s
steve bannon
23:57
Appearances
b
brian t kennedy
04:40
Clips
d
donald j trump
00:07
j
jake tapper
00:08
j
joe scarborough
00:07
| Copy link to current segment

Speaker Time Text
unidentified
The warning signs are everywhere.
That trip I just took talking to European business members.
This was a topic of conversation, Joe, that came up repeatedly.
Like, what is the health of the American economy?
Should we now be looking at re-weighting our investments out of the United States?
The American market has been fantastic for investors ever since 2008.
It's been booming.
But there's a real sense around the world now, particularly in Europe, that this is not the place to put your money.
America is too risky.
And the thing that is risky is partly the politics are too volatile of the tariffs.
But the other thing that is risky is this underlying...
Financial irresponsibility.
The debt is just out of control.
I was talking just a week or two ago about possibly not going with the tax cuts for billionaires, which you have Steve Bannon.
I mean, this is not AOC stuff.
It's like Steve Bannon and the hardcore MAGA supporters saying, don't give billionaires tax cuts.
What are you doing?
Don't give million, don't give multinational corporations.
Tax cuts.
joe scarborough ▲ ● ▼
And he sort of, you know, for a while, he was talking about not doing that, but Republicans are plowing ahead doing it.
unidentified
In fact, that's the top line coming out of their meeting yesterday.
They're celebrating.
We're going to renew the tax cuts.
The golden age will begin.
I think the big, beautiful bill is, I think the conventional wisdom is that it's too big, maybe not too beautiful, but too big to fail.
And that one way or the other...
They're going to get something across the line here, at least to get it out of the House.
What will happen after that is another question altogether, because Joe has been raising concerns for a very long time, as says everybody else, that we may be at the point now where finally the bill comes due for the extraordinary fiscal recklessness that the Trump administration in its first term and now in its second term, and to some extent the Biden administration in its term in office.
The deficit and debt are both so out of control.
That the possibility, you know, this is what the whole Moody's downgrade is about.
The world is starting to look at America as being not...
Not only no longer a safe harbor, and looking at the dollar as not only the stable currency for the world, but as a giant credit risk.
And so there's concern about that on the Senate side.
Getting this whole thing across the finish line by 4th of July, which is the plan, is not really the question.
The question is, is it going to get out of the House right now?
And remember, guys, the main policy thing that this bill is going to do is the main thing is just going to extend those Trump tax cuts.
From the first term.
It's really not going to change that much policy on the tax side.
There are obviously a lot of concerns on the Medicaid side and other places, but I think one way or the other this thing gets through.
The House.
I think actually we're further away from a deal because that SALT cap increase, I think, upset a lot of conservatives.
Again, the conservatives are pushing for some balancing spending reductions.
We actually stopped negotiating just before midnight because we actually had a deal that was then pulled off the table.
So again, this bill actually got worse overnight.
There is no way it passes today.
And as I've said all along, we may need a couple of...
There's a lot of talk about reckoning in a lot of different places.
Progressives, movement spaces, Democratic Party leaders, centrist groups like Third Way, the press.
We're not seeing certain things.
How could this happen again in America?
There's a lot of promise, reckoning, reflection, introspection.
And six months on, I kind of took a survey of those things.
I've been in a lot of those rooms over the last six months.
And I have to say, this was the reckoning that wasn't.
Reflecting on so many of those conversations in public and in private over the last six months, it struck me that in so many of these worlds, with that promised reckoning, the promised rethinking, what should our party be?
What does a pro-democracy movement look like?
What should the press function like?
There was kind of a smugness and a defensiveness, and nope, we're doing everything perfectly.
What are you saying?
The Democratic establishment?
Well, I think you can go down the list.
Smugness.
So start with the Democratic Party, right?
Right.
Which...
Should really be at the top of the list of what is a profound rethinking of what it means to have a pro-democracy party when you're running against that?
Someone, you know, frontally going after Medicaid, as we were talking about.
And you've had no real rethinking.
You've had, you know, individual leaders reaching out to people saying, what do we do?
What do we do?
But anybody who's tried to change anything, David Hogg, others, the DNC kicked out.
They picked a very lackluster chair.
I would say the other, you know, you look at the progressive movement space where I've also spent time.
No real reckoning there.
You know, you have just a continued sense of everything we're doing is perfect.
Let's just do, you know, the land acknowledgements and all this academic jargony stuff that no one understands.
It alienates.
People that don't understand what those things are.
No reckoning there.
I think you have, you know, leaders, individual Democratic leaders, who have just been completely disappointing to most people watching this, who have not stood up, not showed spine.
People have raised their voice.
It's the thing I hear most from people.
You haven't had one leadership shuffle.
You haven't had one new leader.
You haven't had anybody say, you know what, I'm not adequate to this moment.
You know, this sounds like a very negative analysis, and it is, but I think what I wanted to call people's attention to is there's a risk of becoming Trump-like in opposing Trump.
There's a risk in becoming as defensive, as smug, as self-certain, as incurious.
Incuriosity was sort of the thing I found the most.
And all these people and institutions who said, we have to look at ourselves.
No one...
As far as I can tell, ended up really looking at themselves.
And no one has ended up really saying, we need a completely different kind of party.
We need to report the news differently.
What does anybody think they need to do differently six months on?
I don't think you stand up for democracy with values of kind of closeness.
And I think the value of curiosity, openness is the only way to beat whatever Donald Trump is.
So bottom line, you're telling us that you know for a fact no way this gets done today.
The votes just aren't there.
That's right.
You know, again, once they made the decision to not include the deal in this package, there are—and it'll be more than 12 to 15 members.
It's way more than that.
As I said, this bill got worse, not better overnight.
steve bannon ▲ ● ▼
This is the primal scream of a dying regime.
unidentified
Pray for our enemies, because we're going medieval on these people.
steve bannon ▲ ● ▼
I've got a free shot at all these networks lying about the people.
The people have had a belly full of it.
I know you don't like hearing that.
I know you've tried to do everything in the world to stop that, but you're not going to stop it.
It's going to happen.
jake tapper ▲ ● ▼
And where do people like that go to share the big lie?
unidentified
MAGA Media.
jake tapper ▲ ● ▼
I wish in my soul, I wish that any of these people had a conscience.
unidentified
Ask yourself, what is my task and what is my purpose?
steve bannon ▲ ● ▼
If that answer is to save my country, this country will be saved.
unidentified
War Room.
Here's your host, Stephen K. Bass.
steve bannon ▲ ● ▼
It's Wednesday, 21 May, Year of Our Lord, 2025.
Okay, we've got a...
It's an amazingly...
I guess not amazingly, you're used to this.
It's jammed on news and analysis and observations this morning.
So much going on, and we're going to get it all done, but we're going to juggle.
And I've got a great list of guests because there's so many things that we've got to get out there just besides.
This bill is a knife fight.
Andy Harris and the Deficit Hawks, Freedom Caucus and others, you know, overnight the SALT thing got a little better for the SALT guys, but it looked worse for particularly the increases.
Look worse.
And they took it off the table, what they were working with on the Medicaid.
And remember, Medicaid, we're a big supporter of Medicaid, of not taking the meat acts to it.
But you've got to get the illegal aliens off, and the able-bodied had got to go to work.
Look, I think 80 hours a month is nothing.
But that's got to be pulled up to, like, immediately, 26. So there's big fights on this.
Joe Scarborough, just for the Joe Scarborough crowd, Hey, I guess we're going to get it in the Senate or in putting this thing together, but the math just doesn't work.
It's not me saying that.
I keep telling people, hey, the bond market's going to get a vote and we don't want to get into the situation in the United Kingdom and Liz Truss.
And guess what?
Ten-year treasury's over 4.5%, and that's going to roll through your life because all of your financial life is predicated on the ten-year treasury.
That's what your credit card, your mortgage, your car loan, everything is...
Sit on that.
That's your foundational element.
That's what they consider the risk-free that they let the government borrow at.
Well, you ain't risk-free, even if you got great credit.
The 30 is over 5. The 30-year mortgage is over 7. Just people are saying, you see the collapse over in Japan.
Folks are saying, how's this thing going to be financed?
Where are the foreign buyers for that?
Is the Fed or the U.S. government, the citizens going to be buying these?
Is that how we're going to do this?
So I think we need some fiscal reality here.
Nobody's not trying to...
The president's agenda is a supply-side tax cut.
We got that.
But people understand something.
Your taxes are not going to...
Your taxes are going to stay the same.
They're not going to increase.
If we don't pass this, your taxes are going to be a 68%, I think, increase for you.
unidentified
So that's the working class and the middle class.
steve bannon ▲ ● ▼
The math doesn't work unless you allow a snapback.
You don't have a tax cut for the wealthy or you don't have a tax cut for the upper bracket.
Maybe you take care of the upper bracket.
You set a new bracket at a million bucks and put it at 40%.
Figure it out, but the math just doesn't work.
And it doesn't also work with this top-up of the defense spending.
And we've got a new defense spending thing.
Brian Kennedy is going to come on here about this.
And I understand everybody wants all these things, and this is great.
But they downgraded, and Besson's right, because of Biden's irresponsible handling.
But we have to deal with that.
I understand people are irresponsible.
Both parties were irresponsible.
The Democrats worse, but the Republicans went along with it and didn't fight it.
And here we are today.
And it ain't going to get better.
Because remember, in all these discussions we're having and about interest payments and all this, not one penny of the debt ever gets paid off, the face amount.
So when you see a deficit of $2 trillion, that's going to go from a deficit in a year, and as it goes, it's going to go to the national debt.
This is why they're asking for a $4 trillion lift on the debt ceiling.
Between now and they're saying $4 trillion and they get to come back at the duration of it is post the 26 midterm.
Guess what?
I penciled out that it's going to be in the summer of 26. And we have yet to be wrong.
I know you guys appreciate when I say that.
So this is a mess.
I think you've got to take care of these guys at FaceTime.
I know they're working and they're going to work all day.
Since Grace put this thing up at one in the morning, it's been nonstop.
And this has never happened before where you've got the rules, there's no manager's amendment, so you don't know what's really changed to the basic bill, yet they're plowing through today for this Memorial Day weekend.
And I understand what Johnson's doing.
When you got a shot to pass something like this, you try to pass it.
He's basically a floor manager now.
But that doesn't talk about the overall and what my concern is in the summer of 26. And I get the fact that you're talking about growth.
But somebody's got to walk us through where that growth's going to come from.
The White House keeps saying growth, that's fine.
I'm with you.
The supply side part of this, and I actually like seeing some of the supply side stuff on the small businesses be permanent.
Which it's not.
But I think somebody like, I don't know, randomly, I'm going to throw out some names, you know, maybe the Secretary of Treasury, maybe the head of OMB, maybe NEC, maybe Hassett comes out and actually talks math for a change and doesn't give me vote counts.
We don't need vote counts from the head of NEC.
We need mathematics.
You're getting blown up in the mainstream media saying, oh, it's your deficit.
You're blowing up.
It's 10% of the poor are going to get crushed, 10% of the wealthy.
Hey, let's counter that.
Let's come back.
Let's show them a model.
Say you're wrong.
Here's where this is going to be.
Here's where the supply side in investment, in labor, in productivity, this is how we're going to bust through 2.5%.
This is how we're going to get to CBO, IMF, all says our growth rate's 1.7 to 2.0.
We're going to do better than that because of this.
The extension of these tax cuts and other things that we're doing.
I'd also throw in the money from the cash from the external revenue service.
The tariffs are obviously generating some revenue.
President Trump's throwing down hard there.
They're spending non-stop working on these.
The tariffs are going to throw something in there.
$100 billion in the Doge guys.
It's time now to actually, if the Republican Party is not going to codify it, and they're going to have some kind of gimmick to kind of hide, let's just get what Doge found.
The waste, fraud, and abuse.
President Trump could not be clear yesterday.
He didn't want to touch Medicaid.
He wanted waste, fraud, and abuse.
Well, hey, Medicaid is traditionally a cesspool of fraud.
Let's see it.
Let's see all the revenues, or at least to project it.
It doesn't have to be exactly right.
We'll round up or round down.
Let's throw it all into the pot and see where we are.
Right now, we're not making a counter-argument.
That argument's there.
The argument actually is there.
You're going to cut defense spending, some defense spending, and you're going to raise, you know, 1% is going to go.
I, you know, I realize I'm not a socialist.
I'm a capitalist.
The problem is we have a capitalist system with no capitalists.
75% of the people in this country don't own anything.
No real assets.
No financial assets.
They're hanging on by a string.
Hey, and don't sit there and go, I'm in the middle class.
I've got a good job.
You lose that job.
Tell me how you're feeling in 100 days, if you don't have a follow-on, if you're 45 or 50 years old, how you feeling?
You ain't feeling too good.
Short break.
Back in a moment.
unidentified
...here in the Oval Office as we make a historic announcement about the Golden Dome Missile Defense Shield.
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼
We will truly be completing the job that President Reagan started 40 years ago, forever ending the missile threat to the...
unidentified
American homeland, the one big beautiful bill will include $25 billion for the Golden Dome.
It's a generational investment in the security of America and Americans.
Golden Dome is a bold and aggressive approach to hurry up and protect the homeland from our abstinence.
The Golden Dome is going to be an even bigger legacy for our country.
The Congress is stepping up, as you mentioned, right now in the budget reconciliation bill.
You know, some funding is tough and some is easy.
When we say we're going to save everyone's lives in a crazy world, it seems to be very easy to get.
Our enemies, our adversaries are going to pay a lot of attention to this.
Just like they have to President Trump from day one.
So you're defending the whole land, defending the American people.
So thank you for your leadership.
steve bannon ▲ ● ▼
Yeah, we're going to go with this.
By the way, some people, you know, about President Trump and being confused about this, it's quite simple.
We're here to make sure we give President Trump our best guidance in getting things done.
Particularly, this is going to be his legacy, legislative, just like in the first term, the tax cut, right?
We're going to live with this for a long time.
This is going to affect not only the midterms, more importantly the midterms, the country.
And you have to, you know, you have to be straight.
I'm just doing the straight math.
And we are begging and want the administration, Secretary of Treasury, OMB.
And look, it's, Russ Vogt's making, here's the case for you at home and saying I'm confused.
Don't get confused.
Get your number two pencil out and write this down, which I've only been talking about for months, but write it down.
Russ Vogt.
And the guys are making, they've made a decision to get structural changes on some of this mandatory spending.
And to do that, they've done some trade-offs.
And there are, we do bend the arc starting really in the fifth year.
Okay?
And the trade-off is that they haven't gotten the cuts on some of the discretionary and others, even some of the, I think discretionary, but they consider entitlement, but not, the Medicaid.
And that's why the deficit appears, at least in my math, to go up.
And my math has not been refuted yet.
So they've made a decision structurally to do this, which is smart.
My only argument is you've got to do both.
We have to address it now because you can see the bond market.
Now, the argument is if economic growth, if you get the growth, because remember, your taxes are not going to go down.
What they're going to do is not going to go up.
That's the extension of your tax cut.
The argument for the business taxes and particularly for some of the entrepreneurs, the more the supply side, that's the spur growth.
Somebody come out and show the growth at 2.5% or 3%.
How do we get there?
We're fully supported, but you've got to be smart about this because you're going to live with this one for a long time.
And this is going to affect President Trump's Fourth race in third term starting in, you know, when he wins in 28. So you got to be, you got to be, you got to really, and President Trump said, yes, Sam, this is the biggest fiscal hawk out there.
I'm supportive of that.
We're trying to add assistance here.
And look, this thing may get, it may get passed.
They may get the votes.
Right now, I think the fiscal hawks are at least going to get a pound of flesh.
Like the salt guys got a pound of flesh last night.
Brian Kennedy, the Golden Dome.
Okay, the hemispheric, this is part of hemispheric defense.
This is a complete, President Trump is rethinking the world's commercial relationships, that's what trade tariff, to bring high value added manufacturing jobs back.
Please, if grace you can please put up, Newsweek magazine has an interview with me, I think I'm part of this article, talk about a new golden age of American manufacturing.
That is what...
The golden age of Trump, one of the predicates, is bringing high-value-added manufacturing back here to the United States of America.
And he's doing that.
At the same time, it's to think about our commitments, particularly on the Eurasian landmass.
And that's why this hemispheric defense from Greenland and the Arctic down to the Panama Canal, and yes, having allies in Brazil get rid of Lula, and you've got Malay.
Right?
In South America, in Latin America, but from the Panama Canal up to Greenland and stopping the Russian submarines from just easy entrance and egress and exit from the North Atlantic.
And you look at the Central Pacific and Cleo Pascal happens to be over there right now.
We're going to try to get her up in the next couple of days.
The Three Island Chain, the vast Central Pacific, you add a Golden Dome on top.
Voila!
America is hermetically sealed.
Is that what we're doing here, Brian Kennedy?
You're an expert on this.
Is this what we're doing, sir?
brian t kennedy ▲ ● ▼
Yes, that's the aspiration, Steve.
Look, the fact is, today we cannot stop a single Russian, communist, Chinese, or Iranian ship-launched ballistic missile aimed at the United States.
Let me say that again.
We cannot stop a single one of those.
That is something of a national scandal.
steve bannon ▲ ● ▼
Okay, but hang on.
Yo, yo, yo.
But we went through an entire Cold War.
We couldn't stop them either, right?
In fact, we signed a treaty, an anti-ballistic missile treaty, to guarantee we couldn't stop them.
Am I incorrect on that?
brian t kennedy ▲ ● ▼
Absolutely.
steve bannon ▲ ● ▼
So what you're telling me is not a newsflash.
That's been the case since ballistic missiles came up post-World War II, right?
brian t kennedy ▲ ● ▼
Yeah, it's not a newsflash, Steve, but on the other hand, most Americans don't know that.
They think we have a missile defense because successive administrations have said we have a missile defense and that we're protected.
We can stop today a few North Korean missiles.
steve bannon ▲ ● ▼
By the way, is that a fact?
If we did a poll, you caught me there.
brian t kennedy ▲ ● ▼
We've done polling.
steve bannon ▲ ● ▼
You're saying if you did a poll, you've done a poll and most Americans think we can stop ballistic missiles?
brian t kennedy ▲ ● ▼
Yes, Frank Gaffney and I have done many polls.
Frank has been one of the leading advocates as well of missile defense, have done many.
But here's the thing that I think has moved President Trump.
Today around Moscow, there are 8,000 nuclear-tipped ballistic missile interceptors because the Russians never believed in mutually assured destruction.
They believed in defending the Russian homeland.
In China today, they have tested and have fielded missile defenses.
They bought the S-300 and S-400 air defenses from Russia.
And we should assume that they're using very similar missile defenses to protect the major cities of communist China.
And so they believe in missile defense.
The only country that doesn't believe in missile defense is the United States.
And so President Trump, when presented with those facts, thought it was insane that the United States wouldn't also have a missile defense.
So we're playing catch-up here.
We're not like going, this is not one of these pet military projects that people are just doing because they like it.
steve bannon ▲ ● ▼
Why historically, it's the weirdest thing about this nuclear dynamic, why historically has the United States not had a missile defense?
And in fact, when President Trump mentioned Star Wars, people literally melted down and called him an idiot and a bad guy.
Why have we historically not had a missile defense?
brian t kennedy ▲ ● ▼
Because the Soviet Union ran a very sophisticated information campaign to make sure that it was ridiculed.
And Democrats like Joe Biden embraced that.
And Joe Biden, throughout his entire tenure as a U.S. senator, opposed missile defenses, as have most Democrats.
Republicans have gone along because they don't think war is possible.
They don't take war seriously, except for unless it's, you know, wars in the Middle East.
But strategic issues of the kind President Trump is dealing with here, only he and Ronald Reagan took it seriously.
And the cost of this is minuscule compared to some of these legacy programs.
This is an insurance policy that you'd get on your house or your car.
This is the minimum you would do to defend the American homeland.
And so whatever small amount this takes to achieve, this is not a luxury, as it were.
This is an absolute necessity.
The Iranians, by the way, 25 billion.
But let me just say, the Iranians have tested in the Caspian Sea the ability to launch a ballistic missile from a ship and explode a nuclear warhead in the high atmosphere.
They didn't actually use a nuclear warhead, but they've tested the concept of doing that.
steve bannon ▲ ● ▼
And if he did that, that's EMP, so no cell phones would talk, not that your house would shut down.
brian t kennedy ▲ ● ▼
It would destroy the American economy.
And by the way, Steve, have a nuclear weapon go off of any size in the United States, what is that going to do to the U.S. economy?
We'll be in a depression overnight.
steve bannon ▲ ● ▼
Is this also this concern about hypersonic weapons too?
Is this the other thing that's getting President Trump's attention?
brian t kennedy ▲ ● ▼
It is.
I mean, there's ICBMs, sea-launched ballistic missiles, these hypersonic reentry vehicles.
There's cruise missiles.
The Golden Dome is meant to deal with all of these things.
And so between Elon Musk's ability to create rockets and Palmer Luckey and Anderle's ability to create certain interceptor vehicles to stop all this, we have the technology.
And we can afford to do it.
This is one of those things, again, It's not a luxury.
It's simple.
You know, you like to talk about math.
steve bannon ▲ ● ▼
You say afford to do it.
It's $25 billion now.
It's got a $550 billion, I think, over 20 years.
That seems a tad light, sir.
And this is going to cost a couple of trillion dollars.
Because Israel is compact.
You're trying to cover the entire continental United States, correct?
brian t kennedy ▲ ● ▼
You're trying to produce a system that deters the enemy from believing that his Missile launch against you will be successful.
And we've been able to lower the cost of producing these interceptors to the point where you give me half of what they're proposing, and I could field a very effective system that would deter any enemy and stop the short-term enemies.
Look, that's how far advanced the technology has come.
steve bannon ▲ ● ▼
From a standing start, and of course the Permalucket stuff is all unmanned.
That's one of the big developments here.
From a standing start, we've got 30 seconds, under Brian Kennedy's guidance, when would you be up with enough to deter an enemy from thinking they could get to us?
brian t kennedy ▲ ● ▼
I'd have something in the field in six months, something more sophisticated in a year, just the normal iteration of weapons development.
You'd keep on getting better, but you'd start to field something immediately or near immediately, and I'll call that six months, because the United States absolutely has to be defended.
From all enemies, foreign, who have these missiles, who would seek our destruction.
steve bannon ▲ ● ▼
Brian, where do people go?
Social media, where do people go to get you, sir?
brian t kennedy ▲ ● ▼
Brian T. Kennedy won on X and Brian T. Kennedy on Getter.
Thank you, sir.
steve bannon ▲ ● ▼
Appreciate you.
Great.
We're going to be back on, maybe do an hour of this on the 6 o 'clock to break it all down.
Fantastic.
President Trump going to defend the nation.
We're going to go from Geneva.
The World Health Organization to Rudy.
Rudy Giuliani.
Back, and he's bad as ever.
Back in a moment.
unidentified
Here's your host, Stephen K. Van.
steve bannon ▲ ● ▼
The president has the strategic realignment, and I want everybody to read this.
Newsweek article on the golden age of American manufacturing.
Trump's changing all the commercial relationships at the same time geostrategically on a day that Israel says it's going to go in and bomb Persia.
I'm not so sure that's going to happen, but they're threatening that.
He's resetting our geostrategic for hemispheric defense.
What I would like is the NDAA, the National Defense Authorization Act, and the money, the trillion dollars to line up with that.
If you line that up, I think we're all good.
And you add the Golden Dome on it.
And Brian Kennedy's talking about they can get something up to deter as a deter in six months.
Not too shabby.
Bond markets all over the place today.
Japan bond market.
They long out years.
People don't have faith that Japan's even going to be around.
They don't want to buy the securities.
Now more than ever you need to find out what gold is a hedge and has been a hedge for 5,000 years.
The end of the dollar empire.
The Rio reset in July.
We're on the road to Rio.
Why is that important?
Why do you care?
Because the dollar is the prime reserve currency.
And we can kind of do all this because it's the greatest export we have.
A lot of nations on Earth, particularly our enemies, the Chinese Communist Party, ain't happy about that.
And they're going to try to do something about it.
Can't do it immediately, but they're going to try to nip around the edges.
But you need to be up to speed.
Birchgold.com.
Bannon, The End of the Dollar Empire, the seventh free installment, now taught as a college course.
The Rio Reset.
Make sure you get it.
All of it's free.
Get up to speed.
It's not just to make you the smartest person at the barbecue on Memorial Day weekend.
It's to help you think through your politics, policy, and your personal finance.
All in one.
How about that?
Wow.
Rudy Giuliani.
Just like the old days.
Rudy.
First off, Rudy.
You just were not right about Joe Biden.
You were so right so many years ago.
You got it in print.
Finally, the book that we put out, that's amazing.
The crime family.
But you've been right on this forever, about him being, you know, dementia, not being there.
Praetorian Guard put him in office in 2020.
You have fought this good fight.
You've been indicted about it in Arizona.
We'll get to all that.
Not just Arizona, all over the place.
Talk to me about Joe Biden and the cancer cover-up, the Praetorian Guard cover-up.
What's your recommendation?
I think we need a formal investigation, not a house.
We don't need Comer doing it and then fail two years later and write some book that nobody reads.
We need a grand jury.
We need prosecutors.
We need a special counsel.
Your thoughts, Rudy Giuliani?
rudy giuliani ▲ ● ▼
Well, you're absolutely right, and it's a very broad one.
It really has to do with the people who cover this up.
Possibly it doesn't meet the legal definition of treason, but it is treason.
If you and I know that the President of the United States is non-compass menace, we're double-crossing our country if we let him stay there.
Now, in my book that you wrote the foreword to, thank you, on page 144, I go back to something in the hard drive.
So please remember, this was available to them in December of 2019.
By that, I mean the FBI and the Attorney General.
steve bannon ▲ ● ▼
People understand this.
This is Hunter's laptop from hell, which Rudy broke.
Continue on, sir.
rudy giuliani ▲ ● ▼
Yeah, and this is right out of it.
It jumps right out at you.
It's a conversation with this questionable psychiatrist, Keith Ablo.
Ablo, the psychiatrist, says to Hunter Biden, does he recall details, though?
With the dementia he has.
That's the doctor.
Hunter said, not much these days.
We're going back to 2019, my friend.
But since it's all fake news anyway, I don't see the problem.
The psychiatrist, Ablo, is he a go for sure?
Running?
Hunter says, According to inside sources, which I can neither confirm nor deny, he's in it to win.
Abloh says, any man who can triumph over dementia is a giant.
Think what he could do for our nation's needed recovery.
Think of what he did do.
Hunter, you're such an a**hole, but that made me laugh out loud.
Now, they go on talking about his dementia.
It jumps right out at you.
That was available almost a year before he stood for office.
Okay, but Rudy, hang on.
unidentified
Hang on, full stop.
steve bannon ▲ ● ▼
It was available in November of 2019 to two guys who were Republican nominees, Bill Barr, the Attorney General of the United States, and Chris Wray, the Director of the FBI, that both reported to President Trump.
So what happened here?
What happened?
rudy giuliani ▲ ● ▼
I don't know.
What happened here is they...
And much more was available to them.
They let him get impeached.
When they had definitive evidence that that whole thing with the Ukraine was a total put-up job, the conversation with Zelensky, etc., and they let their president get impeached.
I mean, I don't understand why Barr is not under investigation.
I don't understand why the former head of the FBI...
I don't understand why Comey's not in jail.
steve bannon ▲ ● ▼
Rudy, if the President of the United States picked up the phone and called you and said, hey, come over to the Oval, I've got to talk to you, and said, I need a special counsel that knows, that can start with a running start and knows all the details about Ukraine and other things, would you take that job today?
rudy giuliani ▲ ● ▼
Sure.
I have my hand up already.
I've taken the oath of Ronald Reagan.
steve bannon ▲ ● ▼
Okay, what would you do?
I'll do it for him.
Okay, what would you do?
Tell me what would you do.
rudy giuliani ▲ ● ▼
I'd have to start several investigations and then see if they can be merged into one.
First of all, I do the one outlined in this book.
I mean, I already have an outline.
And that is the RICO case against the crime family.
There'd be four specific predicate acts of bribery.
They would involve Russia.
They would involve Ukraine.
They would involve China.
Probably about eight separate ones, bribes from China.
I'll give you an example.
I'll give you a quid pro quo for China.
He got altogether 31 point something million that we can count, right, from China.
First thing he does when he gets his hands on Afghanistan is he gives up the Bagram Air Base.
Bagram Air Base is 400 miles from China.
No American in their right mind would give it up unless the American were bribed.
He never did anything to pursue recovering for us for COVID from China.
He allowed fentanyl to come into this country at records that exceed any other American presidency almost combined.
So there are plenty of quid pro quos for the Chinese money that he got.
But if he said he got it.
steve bannon ▲ ● ▼
If he's got the beginning of dementia, and remember, we had Mark Caputo on here the other day who broke the story about the HER tapes, and he said, hey, he reported in 2019 how people were talking about How Biden didn't have his fastball.
And Axios had another story yesterday about how Democrats in the House in 2023 were saying he shouldn't run again.
But in the first campaign, are you going to also go around the Praetorian Guard, the deep state that put him in?
Remember, why did Ray and Barr not surface this?
Because Bernie Sanders or Focahontas or one of those people would have been the nominee.
They had their nominee.
They had deciphered they were going to steal the election round, which was Joe Biden.
rudy giuliani ▲ ● ▼
Yeah, I mean, there's no doubt about it.
I mean, you go back to Hillary extorting him with this back in 2015 when she told him that she knew all about Hunter Biden.
I mean, everybody knew about Hunter Biden.
The only ones who didn't know about it were the press.
The reality is you also would put them all in a grand jury.
Now, that's very different than one of those silly congressional hearings.
First of all, they have to answer.
And if you feel that they're not materially involved, you can give them immunity.
If they don't answer, you put them in jail.
That's how I put it.
steve bannon ▲ ● ▼
Okay, so hang on.
You're telling me you take over special counsel, you would impanel a grand jury right away, or would you designate the FBI to give you some...
Investigative apparatus.
Really, I want you to walk me through your critical path, because we're going to promote Rudy Giuliani.
Are you the best guy to do this, yes or no?
Are you the best guy?
rudy giuliani ▲ ● ▼
Well, I am.
I'm the best guy to do it in terms of knowledge and experience and having never lost a case as a prosecutor, including some of the most difficult cases of the 20th century.
Am I the best?
And the press will go nuts.
But whoever takes this job...
At least, I'm already, they've gone nuts on me already.
And I've already proven, I can put out, as you said, for everything they say about me, I can prove I told the truth.
steve bannon ▲ ● ▼
I'm not worried about the media.
I'm not worried about the media.
They're defeated anyway.
What about, can you work 18-hour days?
To do this, the head guy here has got to be 18 hours a day, 20 hours a day, seven days a week.
You agree?
rudy giuliani ▲ ● ▼
I'm going to be doing that until we have my funeral, Steve.
I mean, I do that now.
And plus, obviously, I would get very, very, I get the very best.
I mean, you know, the people who helped me crush the mafia.
And some of the younger ones who were doing a great job.
The reality is...
steve bannon ▲ ● ▼
What about the cancer cover-up?
Where does that come in?
rudy giuliani ▲ ● ▼
Oh, come on.
I had prostate cancer 25 years ago.
I've been cured of it for 25 years.
My father died of prostate cancer.
A horrible death.
Because he got it late.
Because they didn't have a test then.
There's no way in the world you develop that cancer in two days.
How about more like 20 years?
steve bannon ▲ ● ▼
But the point I'm making, as ill as he is, do you call him in and depose him for four days in a row, non-stop?
rudy giuliani ▲ ● ▼
Unless there's...
Unless his lawyer stops me and we have to litigate it.
I had a great one once with Joe Bonanno for four days and got him held in contempt because he said he was too sick to testify.
steve bannon ▲ ● ▼
Was Joe Bonanno on the Gleason 9 for cancer?
That's what I'm saying.
I know you've done this before.
You broke Milken.
You broke the mafia.
I got that part.
But I'm saying today with a guy that's 80-some years old and has Gleason 9 or whatever his advanced prostate cancer.
Does Rudy bring him in and you grill him for four days?
Because Herr played patty cake with him.
rudy giuliani ▲ ● ▼
He's going to have to make the case that he's not capable.
Actually, the better case is he's mentally incompetent.
Really, what Herr was trying to say, but didn't have the guts to say it, is that Biden is incapable of participating in his own defense.
He's so far out of it.
I think that would have been true a year ago, and that's a real problem.
steve bannon ▲ ● ▼
Okay, but hang on.
In saying that, the Attorney General of the United States should have gone to the Cabinet.
Where's the 25th Amendment?
If that's the case, why is Garland, why are we not going after Garland immediately?
If Herb made that case, and I think he does make that case, the guy's Commander-in-Chief.
We just talked about the Golden Dome.
He's Commander-in-Chief.
He's the guy that's got the codes for the nukes.
Doesn't Garland have a moral responsibility and a legal responsibility to go tell someone that and they start to move to remove the guy, sir?
rudy giuliani ▲ ● ▼
Every single one of them sitting in that cabinet room watching him dribble had the responsibility to do that.
And for four years, they sold out their country, including his wife.
And children, and family, and the people who have been immunized.
Question is, has Hunter been immunized from that?
It's a broad-based immunization.
There is a legal question as to whether you can immunize what you don't mention.
steve bannon ▲ ● ▼
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, hang on, hang on.
You're saying that they, do you think these blanket preemptive pardons include this situation for the family of Hunter and Dr. Jill?
rudy giuliani ▲ ● ▼
Do what?
Don't you believe they're going to say that?
If it does, by the way, here's the catch-22.
They have to testify.
They have no ability not to testify.
If they indeed have a blanket pardon, then they can't incriminate themselves, particularly if I limit my question to that 10-year period.
Then, if they don't testify, you automatically put them in jail.
And if they commit perjury, you prosecute them.
So I would say this is a necessary way to clean up this horrible system of justice we have and finally make it equal and fair for all.
steve bannon ▲ ● ▼
Okay, we're going to talk about this.
We're going to go to Arizona next with Rudy.
Rudy, hang on for a second.
I want to hold you through a short commercial break.
Fascinating.
Rudy Giuliani, he said if he was offered, he would accept.
He's ready to work 18 hours a day, 7 days a week to get to the bottom of it.
And that's what you're going to have to have.
You need to name a special prosecutor.
This thing, the Justice Department, they're not going to be able to handle it.
Take your phone out.
Text Bannon, B-A-N-N-O-N, 989898.
The ultimate guide for investing in gold and precious metals in the age of Trump.
It's free.
Remember, it ain't the price, which is up to date.
It's the process of how it got there.
Short break.
unidentified
Here's your host, Stephen K. Bannon.
steve bannon ▲ ● ▼
Okay, we got Noor Bin Laden on deck in Geneva on the World Health Organization.
We're monitoring the deal.
I don't think the votes are—they're going to try to do something today, but this thing is a knife fight.
We'll keep you up to date on that.
Got a special guest in-house momentarily.
Rudy, number one, is this scandal bigger than Watergate?
Is this the biggest political scandal, an illegitimate—they knew beforehand he had dementia, illegitimate, stole the 2020 election, put a puppet in there.
And now, with all the crimes they did in the cancer, is this the biggest ever?
rudy giuliani ▲ ● ▼
Of course it is, yeah.
I mean, as I said before, it has sub-parts.
I mean, you've got about five, six, seven, eight different conspiracies here.
Crimes.
And this family in the White House, when I say the Biden crime family, this was the most criminal, perverted family to ever occupy the office of President of the United States.
And from big crimes...
From big crimes to little crimes, they all will commit it.
And the fact that it isn't uncovered makes it possible for these Democrats to believe they can do it again.
steve bannon ▲ ● ▼
By the way, it's just not Democrats.
It's Deep State.
If they find a rhino Republican, they'll do that.
Right?
This is the deep state.
Rudy, let me be blunt because you're my mentor and you're a dear friend of mine and a colleague and all that.
Do you still have your fastball?
Could you take this on and be successful in this?
You still got your fastball, brother?
rudy giuliani ▲ ● ▼
You know, it's the thing I do.
I told you, it's the only thing I really do well, which is prosecute cases.
And I started doing it when I was a baby.
I was taught by the very, very best, Judge Lloyd F. McMahon, the judge I clerk for.
I was able to try big cases when I started in the U.S. Attorney's Office.
And if you look back on the 20th century, I prosecuted probably some of the most difficult and important cases.
And I was the last U.S. Attorney in the Southern District to go to court and prosecute his own cases.
Plus, when I was number three in the Justice Department under Ronald Reagan, I went around the country arguing cases in the Court of Appeals for practice, including in the Supreme Court.
That's what I really love to do and really know how to do.
And I've had this case in mind now, as you know.
So you can present yourself...
steve bannon ▲ ● ▼
Hang on.
You can present yourself to the...
I know the bona fides.
You can present yourself to the president and say, I still got my fastball.
I can get this done for the country.
Correct?
rudy giuliani ▲ ● ▼
Yeah.
And if I had anything, I would tell him.
I'm not a liar like the guy in the White House.
And I don't.
I'm on the air three to four hours a day.
steve bannon ▲ ● ▼
No, it's amazing.
We love your show.
Okay, Rudy, another thing.
Arizona.
You and Eastman, two of the leaders of our movement, the guys they've dumped Lawford against.
What's happening in Arizona?
Is that case going forward?
Did it get dropped?
Is it going back to a grand jury?
It's kind of confusing the way it's written.
So what's happening?
rudy giuliani ▲ ● ▼
About seven or eight months ago, the judge said he was questioning the case.
He thought it was politically motivated.
He didn't think they had enough evidence.
And he gave the prosecutors three months to justify the case.
So all of us, including Christina Bob and a number of others that are involved in this, thought, well, that was the end of the case.
The prosecutor came back, tried to justify the case.
Now the judges said they didn't.
They didn't properly explain the law.
To the grand jury.
He forgot that he originally said it was politically motivated.
steve bannon ▲ ● ▼
Hang on, wait for it.
Audience, you know the law they didn't explain?
The Electoral Count Act of 1887.
You ever heard that before, folks?
rudy giuliani ▲ ● ▼
That's what the whole case is about.
steve bannon ▲ ● ▼
This entire thing, they never explained it to the grand jury.
That is a rigged deal, Rudy.
It's a rigged deal.
rudy giuliani ▲ ● ▼
He wants to give him an opportunity to do it again.
So, of course, we're going to appeal it.
I mean, how many times do you get...
To politically indict someone.
Twice?
He already has said he questioned whether it was a political indictment.
I don't understand what's going on.
I don't understand what's going on in Georgia.
That case is still there, and the president is still a defendant in that case.
The case is useless.
It's gone.
It's no case.
Half of it's been thrown out.
The other half, I mean, is going to have to await her getting out of jail, I guess, to prosecute.
It's absurd that they keep these cases going.
One is a state with a Republican governor, Georgia, and the other is a state, of course, with a very bitter Democratic governor and an attorney general.
steve bannon ▲ ● ▼
You have a Republican governor, Rudy, you have a Republican governor, but he ain't a MAGA governor.
Okay?
unidentified
Yeah.
steve bannon ▲ ● ▼
He would love you and Trump.
He would love you and Trump to be twisting in the wind.
rudy giuliani ▲ ● ▼
Yeah.
steve bannon ▲ ● ▼
Okay.
rudy giuliani ▲ ● ▼
But this is ridiculous that it's still pending.
steve bannon ▲ ● ▼
Okay.
So the Warren Posse, we're going to get all over this.
Rudy is the special prosecutor, special counsel.
Where do people go to get your content?
The social media, the website, the four hours a day.
You can get me on X. The beautiful and vivacious Dr. Maria Ryan, where do they get her stuff to?
rudy giuliani ▲ ● ▼
The Lindell TV and X, both.
You can get us on both.
steve bannon ▲ ● ▼
Okay, perfect.
Rudy, you're a scholar and a warrior.
People love you, but I think this may be your biggest—this assignment will be only—the only thing bigger is when you were America's mayor and got us through 9-11, but this will be huge because it's a scandal.
unidentified
You agree dwarfs Watergate?
rudy giuliani ▲ ● ▼
Well, this would be a great honor to do it, and I certainly am able to do it, and I don't think there's anyone that knows the case better than I do.
And also, if the thought was somebody else should do it, I'd be more than happy to be a special advisor and help to show them the way through it.
Anything to get justice.
steve bannon ▲ ● ▼
You do agree that we can't do this with some congressional committee, that DOJ's too overwhelmed with what they got.
You need a special counsel that sets itself aside, and this is what their focus.
rudy giuliani ▲ ● ▼
This would have fallen apart four years ago if I was put in front of a grand jury.
The difference between a grand jury and a congressional investigation, even when the investigators are good, and we've had some really lousy ones, but not all, but we've had some that have really screwed it up, congressional investigators.
But in fairness, the power of a grand jury is enormous.
I mean, they cannot not testify.
The other option is jail immediately.
Immediately.
steve bannon ▲ ● ▼
Good.
rudy giuliani ▲ ● ▼
You walk out of the grand jury and you go into the same prison, if you're in the Southern District, that Epstein committed suicide in.
steve bannon ▲ ● ▼
Yeah, I'm not buying that one.
I love Bungino.
I don't buy that one either.
Alex Jones is going to join us tomorrow.
We're going to talk about that.
rudy giuliani ▲ ● ▼
I can almost prove it to you.
I know that jail backwards and forwards.
I helped to build it.
steve bannon ▲ ● ▼
Well, maybe I'll have you back on with Alex tomorrow.
Anyway, Rudy, fight on.
We're going to make the pitch.
Rudy Giuliani is the special counsel to actually get to the bottom, adjudicate and get to the bottom of the biggest scandal in American political history.
That's the illegitimate Biden regime, all of it.
And it ain't just Democrats.
It's Ray, it's Barr, it's all of them.
Short commercial break.
When we return, we're going to go to Geneva.
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