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Jan. 16, 2025 - Bannon's War Room

53:16

Episode 4199: Scott Bessent Hearing: Financially Rescuing America

Participants

Main voices

scott bessent

15:08

steve bannon

12:32

Appearances

mark warner

02:14

mike lindell

02:31

shemane nugent

02:54

Clips

chuck grassley

00:13

james lankford

00:45

maggie hassan

00:10

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Show episode speakers

Speaker	Time	Text
steve bannon ▲ ● ▼		Scott Besson, let's go back and hear Scott's opening statement.
scott bessent ▲ ● ▼		The Treasury, I want to thank all of you who took the time to meet with me over the past few weeks.
scott bessent ▲ ● ▼		I want to thank my spouse, John Freeman, who is here today, and my wonderful children, Cole and Caroline, who are sitting behind me.
unidentified		Mr. Besson, could you pull the microphone a little closer to you?
scott bessent ▲ ● ▼		Who are sitting behind me for the ultimate civics lesson.
		I want to acknowledge three people who couldn't be here today.
		My 98-year-old mother-in-law, Selene Freeman, a World War II French war bride of an American soldier who lives with us in Charleston, South Carolina, making for a three-generation household.
		My sister, Paige McLeod-Besson, who doesn't like crowds and prefers the mountains of South Carolina to large cities.
		And my recently deceased sister, Winn-Bessent, who worked tirelessly as a public defender in one of South Carolina's poorest counties.
		I also want to thank President Donald Trump for having placed his trust and competence in me for such an important role in his administration.
		While I've met with many of you, most Americans watching at home will be unfamiliar with my background.
		I have been blessed with a fulfilling and successful career.
		But my presence here today was far from predetermined.
		I was born and raised in the South Carolina little country.
		My father fell into extreme financial difficulty when I was young.
		When I was nine years old, I started working two summer jobs, and I haven't stopped working since.
		I eventually made my way to Yale.
		I accepted my first internship in finance because the job came with a pull-out sofa in the office to sleep on.
		Which allowed me to live in New York City rent free.
		I've been involved in the financial markets ever since.
		I've been fortunate enough to work with some of the world's greatest investors in a career that has taken me to almost 60 countries over 40 years.
		My life has been the only in America story that I am determined to preserve for future generations.
		I believe that President Trump has a generational opportunity to unleash a new economic golden age that will create more jobs, wealth, and prosperity for all Americans.
		My life's work in the private sector has given me a deep understanding of the economy and markets.
		And while this experience will be invaluable in crafting economic policy, I have long adhered to the principle that you should know what you don't know.
		And lean on those who do.
		Having never served in government, I intend, if confirmed, to be in close contact with each of you in your offices and seek your counsel.
		The Treasury Department plays a critical role in protecting American national security.
		We must secure supply chains that are vulnerable to strategic competitors, and we must carefully deploy sanctions as part of a whole of government Today,
		Americans face significant challenges in an economy that has not created enough opportunities for working men and women.
		We have an affordability crisis.
		A housing shortage, and for the first time in my lifetime, parents feel as though the American dream is slipping away from their children.
		The federal government has a significant spending problem, driving deficits that have averaged an historically high 7% of GDP during the past four years.
		We must work to get our fiscal house in order and adjust federal domestic discretionary spending that has grown by an astonishing 40% over the past four years.
		Productive investment that grows the economy must be prioritized over wasteful spending that drives inflation.
		As we begin 2025, Americans are barreling towards an economic crisis at year end.
		If Congress fails to act, Americans will face the largest tax increase in history, a crushing $4 trillion tax hike.
		We must make permanent the 2017 Tax Cuts and Jobs Act and implement new pro-growth policies to reduce the tax burden on American manufacturers, service workers, and seniors.
		I've already spoken with several members of the committee, as well as leaders of the House, about the best approach to achieving these important goals together.
		As President Trump has said, we will unleash the American economy by implementing pro-growth regulatory policies, reducing taxes, and unleashing American energy production.
		The breadth and depth of our capital markets, along with predictable pro-growth tax policy and smart updated regulation.
		We'll continue to make America the most popular destination in the world for starting, growing, and taking public a business.
		And as we rebuild our economy and lay the foundation for the next generation of American competitiveness, we must use all the tools available to realign the economic system to better serve the interests of working Americans.
		For too long...
		Our nation has allowed unfair distortions in the international trading system.
		President Trump was the first president in modern times to recognize the need to change our trade policy and stand up for American workers.
		If confirmed, I look forward to working with President Trump and members of this committee to do just that.
		Members of the committee.
		These are just some of many important goals that President Trump has laid out for me and others on his economic team.
		I firmly believe that if confirmed, and with your counsel and support, we can usher in a new, more balanced era of prosperity that will lift up all Americans and rebuild communities and families across the country.
		I humbly thank you for your consideration and am eager to take your questions.
unidentified		Thank you, Mr. Besson.
		Before I begin my questions, I want to reemphasize how appreciative I am of your diligence in the process that we've gone through vetting here in this Senate.
		I appreciate the more than 3,000 pages of supporting material you've provided, as well as the countless hours you and your staff have offered to respond to questions from members of this committee.
		Let me be clear.
		You followed all of the applicable law and met the committee's long-standing diligence standard.
		Your process matched that which has applied to nominees in every previous administration.
		I want to go in my first question to you to the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, which Senator Wyden and I have both mentioned already and you've mentioned in your remarks.
		The attack on this statute, this law, which is law, I remind everybody, it is the law now.
		It was passed in 2017. Is that it was a tax cut for the wealthy.
		I appreciate you, Mr. Besson, noting that it will be a $4 trillion tax increase if we do not extend this law.
		And a point that I would remind all of my colleagues is that if that $4 trillion tax increase happens, it's not just going to be something that impacts the wealthy.
		It is $2.6 trillion of it.
		The majority of it falls on people who make less $400,000 for a family with two taxpayers for under $400,000 per year.
		That's the number that President Biden chose to say he wanted to protect it.
		$2.6 trillion of this tax cut hits those making less than $400,000.
		Moreover, massive amounts of it hit pass-through entities.
		Small businesses across this country.
		This is not a tax cut for the wealthy that we're talking about.
		It is a tax increase on all Americans, the majority of whom are in the lower and middle income categories.
		My question to you is, one of our pivotal tasks is to make sure that this tax increase does not happen.
		Can you give us your perspective on the impact that would occur in this country if we allowed this $4 trillion tax increase to happen?
scott bessent ▲ ● ▼		Senator Crapo, thank you for this, and thank you for the meetings over the past few weeks.
		I've enjoyed working with your staff, and this is the single most important economic issue of the day.
		This is pass-fail.
		That if we do not fix these tax cuts, if we do not renew and extend, then we will be facing an economic calamity.
		And as always, with financial instability, that falls on the middle and working class people.
		We will see a gigantic middle class tax increase.
		The child tax credit halved.
		We will see the deductions halved.
		So it will be what we call in economics, it has the potential for a sudden stop.
		And as I said, traditionally with these sudden stops, it falls on working Americans.
unidentified		Thank you.
		And I would just say to you, you may be aware of this, but the Tax Foundation has indicated that if we Do sustain these tax cuts and protect them from expiring and stop this tax increase, that the extension of this policy would increase the growth of the GDP in the United States by 1.1% over time.
		Similarly, and I don't know how they came up with the same number, but the National Association of Manufacturers indicates that if we don't extend this tax relief, That there will be a 1.1% reduction in growth of jobs and development in our economy.
		It seems to me that as we are talking about what to do for America, that protecting America from a 1% reduction versus a 1% growth in GDP. is a critical objective.
		Could you just give a little bit of perspective?
		I know you just answered this question in another context, but could you just give a little bit more perspective on those kinds of dynamics?
		And I'm sorry, I'm going to try to keep to five minutes, and we've only got about 15 seconds left of mine, and I want to be sure everybody else stays on time, so I will too.
		Could you quickly respond?
scott bessent ▲ ● ▼		Well, Senator, I would just say that we saw the power of these tax cuts in 18, 19, and going into Thank you.
unidentified		Senator Wyden.
		Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
		Let me say to the nominee, I've got four questions that I'm going to ask, and if we both can keep it brief, I think we can get to all of them because I think it really frames for us what the debate is all about.
		I'm going to start by talking about the future of direct file.
		This is the program.
		That helps our people who choose it to save hundreds of dollars when they file their tax return.
		Last year, the IRS launched it.
		It was enormously popular among taxpayers.
		But, of course, the tax software giants in their big lobby just hate it.
		They want to shut it down.
		Now, the filing season starts...
		January 27th, so it opens in 10 days, and millions of taxpayers around the country have already been notified that they are going to be eligible to use direct file this year.
		So I won't do this for every question, but I'd really like a yes or no on this one.
		Will you commit to keeping direct file up and running if you're confirmed?
scott bessent ▲ ● ▼		I will commit that for this tax season, the direct file will be operative, and the American taxpayers who choose to use it will.
scott bessent ▲ ● ▼		And if confirmed, I will consult and study the program and understand it better and make sure that it works to serve the IRS's three goals of collections, customer service, and privacy.
unidentified		I appreciate the answer.
		It means that taxpayers are going to save, who choose to use it because it's voluntary, hundreds of dollars, and we'll have a chance to see once again how popular it is with practically everybody except the tax prep software crowd.
		On to tariffs.
		Donald Trump, with no plan and no strategy, says he's going to put across-the-board tariffs, blanket tariffs on all important goods.
		Which means that our workers and our small businesses are going to get clobbered with additional taxes on practically everything they buy from other countries.
		My question here is, who would pay these tariffs?
		Americans or foreign countries?
scott bessent ▲ ● ▼		So, Senator Wyden, just to understand...
		So I can frame the answer correctly.
		Do you believe that these tariffs are a consumption tax increase?
unidentified		I believe these tariffs, you can call it whatever you want in terms of trying to gussy it up, they're going to be paid for by our workers and small businesses.
		All through the campaign we heard they weren't, that foreign countries were going to pay it.
		I think that's baloney.
		It's going to be paid for by workers and small businesses.
		So, your response.
scott bessent ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Senator, I would respectfully disagree.
		And the history of tariffs and tariff theory, optimal tariff theory, does not support what you're saying.
		Traditionally, we see that the current, if we were to say use a number that has been thrown around in the press of 10%, then traditionally the currency appreciates by 4%.
		So the 10% is not passed through.
		Then we have various elasticities.
		Consumer preferences may change.
		And finally, foreign manufacturers, especially China, which is trying to export their way out of their current economic malaise, will continue cutting prices to maintain market share.
unidentified		That's an academic view of it.
		But what I know is the history of this is that...
		Clobbers people of modest means.
		They're the people who are going to get hit.
		And all through the campaign, there was a big show that was going to be paid for by foreigners, not so.
		Two other questions I want to get in.
		And I already made it clear, and you and I talked about this.
		I'm for a tax code that gives everybody the opportunity to get ahead.
		You and I talked about my friend Bill Bradley.
		He and I have been working for this for years.
		Do you believe the tax code should treat wages differently than it treats wealth?
scott bessent ▲ ● ▼		Look, in any tax system that advantages and creates distortions, it is a change that, Senator, it is a decision that was made when the tax codes were written.
scott bessent ▲ ● ▼		And so every tax code involves the tradeoffs and distortions in favor of other gains.
unidentified		It sounds to me like you do believe that it's fine to treat wealth more favorably.
		I couldn't disagree more.
		The idea that a dollar earned by a hedge fund manager has more value than a dollar earned by a teacher or a factory worker, I just think it's a disconnect.
		One last question, and that is about the legislation that was written in this room that was the biggest transformation on clean energy in American history.
		That is our package that basically said the tax code as it relates to energy is a broken-down mess.
		And we basically said we're going to have a technology-neutral system.
		The more you reduce carbon, the bigger your tax savings.
		Now there is a big effort in the Trump administration to reverse it.
		I think that's going to be bad for the economy, but it is going to be damn good for China because we are in an arms race on clean energy with them.
		Are you going to be on the side of people who want to unravel this?
scott bessent ▲ ● ▼		Senator Wyden, just so we can frame this for everyone in the room, China will build a hundred new coal plants this year.
		There is not a clean energy race.
		There is an energy race.
		China will build 10 nuclear plants this year.
		That is not solar.
		I am in favor of more nuclear plants.
		And I would note that the IRA, as scored by the CBO, is wildly out of control in terms of spending on the upside.
unidentified		Well, first of all, the clean energy package does protect nuclear because members on both sides of the aisle in this room wanted it to be that way.
		But if you're going to talk about fossils, the United States has achieved a greater level of energy security than we've had in generations.
		Oil and gas production is at record highs.
		And it's not just that, but it's about clean energy.
		And I'm very troubled by your position denying that we're in an arms race with China on clean energy, because we definitely are.
		Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
		We do need to move on.
		I told Senator Wyden he could have those four questions, but I want to remind everybody else we've got a five-minute time limit.
		He deserved those extra questions.
		Senator Grassley.
		Congratulations.
		I want to start out with where you and I talked about something in my office.
		And you remember that tongue-in-cheek comment I made to you that you're going to be asked by the chairman, will you answer all of our letters?
		And everybody that comes to the Hill says yes, they're going to.
		And I said, maybe you better say maybe, because most people don't keep that promise.
		So I just want to remind you, if I write you a letter on my oversight responsibilities, I'd appreciate it if you'd answer it.
		Now to my first question.
		My Democrat colleagues believe—you're going to put that up—my Democrat colleagues believe the only solution to our unsustainable debt and deficit is higher tax rates, and that ends up being on job creators and families alike.
		However, history proves that high tax rates fail to raise significant revenues.
		Taxpayers, workers, and investors are smarter than that.
		In other words, they're smarter than we in Congress that thinks that at one time a 93% marginal tax rate would bring in more revenue than a 70% tax rate or a 50% tax rate or a 30% tax rate or a 40% tax rate.
		Percent tax rate and so on.
		But as you can see from this card, Congress isn't too smart because the taxpayers decide how much money they're going to bring into the federal treasury.
		Now on the other side of the ledger, federal spending is at levels we've never seen outside of war and recession and still growing.
chuck grassley ▲ ● ▼		So I'm making a statement to you, but if you'd like to comment on whether or not we have a fiscal imbalance primarily or a spending problem rather than a revenue problem.
scott bessent ▲ ● ▼		Senator Grassley, I enjoy visiting you in your office and will remind you that when we were talking about the American agriculture that I may be the first Treasury Secretary.
		Nominee in a long time who knows what a section is, 642 acres, and involved in the farming business.
		And yes, we do not have a revenue problem in the United States of America.
		We have a spending problem.
		That historically, for the past 40 or 50 years, revenues, federal government revenues, have averaged about 17 to 17.5% of GDP. And spending...
		has been slightly over that, leading us to a 3.5% budget deficit, which is manageable because we have roughly 3.8% nominal growth, 1.8% real growth, 2% inflation.
		Today, as you stated, and to be clear, this is one of the things that got me out from behind my desk and my quiet life in this campaign, was the thought That this spending is out of control.
		We are spending about 24-25% of GDP. So, as you said, 6.8 to 7% deficit.
		We have never seen this before when it is not a recession or not a war.
		And I am concerned because several times the Treasury of the United States has been called upon to save the nation.
		Whether it was the Civil War, the Great Depression, World War II or the recent COVID epidemic, Treasury, along with full government and Congress, has used its borrowing capacity to save the Union, to save the world, and to save the American people.
		And what we currently have now, we would be hard-pressed to do the same.
unidentified		My last question.
		It's one I ask a lot of people to come from Treasury.
		While I oppose tax hikes on individuals, families and small businesses, I've long championed sensible policies geared towards shutting down tax loopholes and providing tools to IRS to detect tax cheats.
		A primary example is my legislation that I authored in 2006, the IRS whistleblower law.
		It's brought $6 billion back into the federal treasury.
		This program could raise billions more if the IRS would use it to its full potential.
		So I hope I can count on you if you're confirmed, and I think you'll be confirmed, to be supportive of this whistleblower program and work to ensure its full use.
scott bessent ▲ ● ▼		Senator Grassley, we are in complete alignment on this program.
unidentified		Thank you.
		Next would be Senator Cornyn.
		Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman.
		Mr. Benson, welcome to Washington, D.C. You're getting a taste of what it's like here, which is an out-of-body experience for most people who are not acquainted with it.
		I happen to represent a state that has the eighth largest economy in the world.
		We think we understand the formula for economic growth and prosperity and opportunity, which are low taxes, a reasonable and modest regulatory footprint, and opportunities for people to prosper, and by prospering, invest and create opportunities for other people to pursue their dreams.
		We think there's a lot Washington can learn.
		From that formula, and it sounds to me like you agree.
		One of the strange experiences I've had here is that so many of our colleagues, principally on the other side, think that the money that you earn is not actually yours.
		It's the federal government's.
steve bannon ▲ ● ▼		John Cornyn right there with Scott Besson.
		Some of the responses, Scott Besson, I think his response has been absolutely fantastic.
		We do want to get, in the limited time we've got, we're going to get some of the Democrats that are going to come hard at Scott.
		But he said right there, if we do not pass the Tax Cut and Jobs Act of 2017, which we worked so hard on in the Trump first term, that we're going to have economic calamity.
		He also says something I think is very important, we say it all the time, is that we don't have a revenue problem, roughly between 17 and 17.5%.
		Of GDP has been the revenue.
		Pretty solid.
		We have a spending problem.
		And this gets back to the House Freedom Caucus just gave this proposal.
		And I think they're tipping their hand.
		They're saying, hey, for the debt ceiling, they want a $4 trillion lift for two years.
		Well, hey, I'm just a simple guy.
		I do the math.
		It looks to me like $2 trillion a year in deficits.
		They also laid a whole host of cuts that have got to come.
		But once again, it's getting to this 10-year program.
		I said at Politico the other day, I want to stop the 10-year.
		It's not that I don't like planning downrange, but we're in a crisis.
		You can see this in the bond market today.
		It made the questions of Scott Besson.
		Scott Besson just said right there, because I know Scott very well.
		He came back.
		He left the hedge fund business to come and take a salary, I don't know, of $190,000 a year or $200,000 a year to serve his country during a time of crisis.
		We're in a crisis.
		And finally, the political class is waking up here.
		Why?
		Because the Democrats just had an orgy of spending with the Republican establishment that backed them up over the last four years, and they created the oligarchs that they whine about now in his farewell address.
		It was fine when the oligarchs and the platforms worked to suppress MAGA and the MAGA movement and President Trump, okay?
		But now that you guys have been tossed from office, one of the reasons people were tired of that and hated that...
		All of a sudden, it's bad.
		Scott said we have a spending problem.
		Here is what I think everybody has to reorient themselves to, and I'm going to be adamant about this.
		I don't care about 10 years.
		I don't care about five years right now.
unidentified		I care about this year and next year.
steve bannon ▲ ● ▼		This is essentially what you have to do is you're an investment banker and you go in to help a company finance, particularly companies that turn around or somebody that could go into bankruptcy.
		You have to do a restructuring or a turnaround.
		You've got to be very hard.
		You say, I can't hear a happy talk.
		Don't give me a three-year projection.
		Don't give me a five-year projection.
		I need the next 100 days, the next six months, the next year.
		And what you do is you go back and look at the trailing 12 months.
		Let me see what you just did.
		Not even over the last year, just the last 12 months.
		So it's not even your fiscal year or your economic year, just the 12 months.
		And I want to monitor that and see how it's doing.
		We just announced yesterday the record deficit.
		Record in history deficit for I think is up to December now for the first launch to a fiscal year.
		Fiscal year launch is October 1st.
		We're in a crisis and people have to start thinking of this as a crisis.
		By that, I don't need cuts and I don't need conservative wins over 10 years.
		They're selling you something.
		And this is even for the Freedom Caucus.
		We have to get focused.
		Don't give me a 10-year.
		I want to know now what it's going to be this year, next year.
		You're signaling to me already and you're the hardest core budget hawks.
		That it's two trillion a year in deficits.
		Am I supposed to think anything differently?
		I want my Freedom Caucus guys to call me.
		I'll reach out to you guys.
		But is that a solution?
		At two trillion per year?
		And where's Doge?
		Elon and these guys have got to step into the plate with Russ Vogt.
		I'm not saying even the cuts are going to take place.
		But I'd like to see, if you're talking about two trillion at one time and now it's a trillion, give it to me, baby.
		We need it now.
		If that's a trillion dollars, it's not over 10 years.
		We need to know where these cuts are going to come now because anything that's not now is happy talk.
		Reality.
		And the Hill said we're going to have these calamitous, but we need to have that.
		That is healthy.
		It's not unhealthy.
		What is unhealthy is to avoid this.
		You notice this in your own personal life.
		And people do it.
		We talk about the credit cards.
		We talk about the taxes you put in the drawer.
		People have a tendency.
		I can't deal with them.
		I'm too overwhelmed.
		I put away, you know, what is Scarlett O'Hara?
		I worry about that tomorrow.
		That's for another day.
		We don't have another day.
		We have today and tomorrow.
		They have to be addressed.
		Paradigm Press, if you like Global Capital Markets Strategy, Geostrategy, Jim Rickards, been fantastic.
		Go to Rickards War Room, Rickards with an S, RickardsWarRoom.com.
		You get access to his newsletter.
		You get access to his books.
		It's one of the great things, because we're really proud.
		What a high-level contributor, and somebody that's not going in the Treasury Department, so we get to keep him.
		RickardsWarRoom.com.
		We're going to take a short commercial break.
		When we return, we've got Pam Bondi, Lee Zeldin, Scott Besson, all.
		In the hot seat.
	Today, day three.
unidentified		Here's your host, Stephen K. Band.
steve bannon ▲ ● ▼		Hey, I got Mike Lindell.
		We're going to get back to Scott Besson in a minute.
		The reason I have Lindell, he's about to go on David Pakman.
		And David Pakman's the guy that came after my beloved kid sister.
		So, I wanted to get you on.
		What time are you on Pakman?
		Because I'm going to get my kid sister.
		That guy's a demon.
		He attacked my poor kid sister, who's the sweetest of the sweetest, until you get her mad, hit her tripwire, and then she gets to be...
unidentified		But he went after, she's a southern man.
mike lindell ▲ ● ▼		He is the biggest demon of them all.
		I really believe that.
		He's attacked me.
		I've been on the show a couple other times.
		We're taping right here in about, I guess it's a tape show live, but he's never cut anything out of it, everybody.
		But also, I wanted to tell you all, this is my 16-year anniversary of quitting all my addictions.
		I think we got a picture there.
		There it is, everybody.
		That picture was taken when drug dealers actually did an intervention on me.
		If I'd have thought years later what it was going to become, I mean, it's just been a miracle.
		It's been God's miracle.
		I set up the LindellRecoveryNetwork.org, everybody.
		If you know anybody in addiction, LindellRecoveryNetwork.org.
		That's the one that Keith Ellison is attacking here in Minnesota.
		Every day he ties me up.
		Today, though, we're actually doing a commercial for the crosses that you all got exclusively at the War Room Posse, the one I wear every day.
		You guys get, I believe it's, if we put that up, I think it's 30% off at the War Room Posse.
		There it is right there.
		You guys say 30%.
		It's a War Room exclusive right now.
		And you guys, it's been amazing.
		It's been an amazing journey, I'll tell you.
		I also have my book, my book on the available today at the website for the War Room Posse.
		You can get it autographed if you want to check that out.
		But go to War Room.
		I mean, go to MyPillow, go down to you, Steve, Steve, click on it.
		There's all the towels we put on sale yesterday, $29.98.
		All the 2025 towels came in.
		And here's a big surprise for the War Room Posse.
		Everything you get today in celebration is ships for free.
		Shipping is on me and my employees.
		And I just want to say, Steve, you guys, the War Room Posse and the War Room, you guys have been a blessing to me.
		I would have never thought 16 years ago what was to come years later helping Steve Bannon help save the country.
		Steve, you've been very blessed.
steve bannon ▲ ● ▼		Hang on, put that...
		You're very blessed.
		And we're selling the crosses.
		That's what Pac-Man's on you.
		I'm going to let you go.
		I want to make sure people go to the crosses.
		Go to MyPillow.com.
		Promo code for me.
		Get the discount.
		Get the crosses.
		Let's get that photo up before we go.
		Those are like the guys, you look like the guys I was in prison with.
		You're a real convict, Lindell.
		No, you cleaned up.
		You can see the Holy Spirit coming to you of how nice you look today versus your convict look.
mike lindell ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		Well, the dealers actually took that picture.
		One of the dealers, when they did an intervention on me, I had been up for like 12 to 14 days back then and with no sleep, and they took that picture.
		He says, he goes, you know, you've been telling us for years you're going to come back and help us out of addiction.
		He took that picture.
		He says, you're going to need that for that book you keep telling us you're going to write.
		And that is the picture on the book that I have.
		So it's all come to fruition.
		Big miracles, everybody.
steve bannon ▲ ● ▼		Big miracles.
		Big miracles to come.
		Mike Lindell, thank you very much.
		We'll see you in the afternoon show, brother.
		Go wrestle with Pacman.
		This David Pacman's a demon.
		Picked on my kid sister.
		And she was trying to get the Satan clubs out of the schools.
		Remember that?
		Let's go back to Scott Besant.
		Let's go back to the Treasury grilling of the potential of the future Treasury Secretary, Scott Besant.
unidentified		I'll try.
		Let me compliment you on substantive answers.
		Sometimes we get people here who just rope-a-dope and they'll have a set of statements such as have been just delivered, in all due respect to my colleague, and they just rope-a-dope and you actually give substantive answers.
		I thank you for that.
		By the way, I also, Lindsey Graham alluded to it, going back to tariffs, which Senator Wyden spoke of.
		I've been very concerned that countries like China manipulate environmental regulations.
		You point out that they're building 100 coal-fired plants over a period of time.
		And whatever we do will not have an impact on global greenhouse gas emissions because China's putting up so many.
		I believe I've learned that that is called an externality in economics.
		When we met, we discussed the foreign pollution fee, which would put a levy, a tariff, on those carbon-intensive products coming from countries like China, roughly commensurate with their avoided cost of not controlling it.
		Now, I would think that my Democratic colleagues would like that, because that's clearly a way that they are manipulating the world economy to steal jobs from the United States simultaneously.
		Increase global greenhouse gas emissions.
		Any comments on such a foreign pollution fee?
scott bessent ▲ ● ▼		Senator Cassidy, I greatly enjoyed our discussion and the extensive presentation you gave me when I visited with you.
		This is a very good question, and I believe it is one for your Democratic colleagues to understand whether they would be in favor of the equivalent of a carbon tariff, that Senator Graham is in favor of it.
		And I think this is a very interesting idea that it could be part of an entire tariff program, because I think...
		President Trump hasn't taken office yet, but if confirmed, I look forward to working with him on various strategies, some that could be specifically aimed toward carbon, as you say, others that could be aimed toward unfair trade practices, unfair...
unidentified		So if you will, there's externalities that a tariff can address.
		Those externalities in and of themselves hurt the pocketbook or the job prospects of an average American.
		Let me move on.
		I think you would agree with that.
		I applaud your goal to get our debt-to-GDP ratio down to 3%, or percent of our GDP down to 3%.
		But you studiously say that we can't talk about things like Social Security.
		And I think that's because routinely, if we talk about Social Security, we presume that there's going to be a cut in benefits or a raise in taxes.
		I think we spoke when we met.
		I and others have a bipartisan plan that would create a pension investment fund separate from the Social Security Trust Fund.
		And that, just like we do with our 401ks, invest it in the broader economy and use the proceeds from that to offset the upcoming 25% cut in Social Security benefits that will occur if we don't address this problem.
		And just so folks get that, under current law, when the Social Security program goes insolvent in eight years, per CBO, there'll be a 25% cut in benefits.
		Under the plan I and others have endorsed, it's a pension investment fund in which we, again, would invest in the broader economy with all the safeguards to keep the government from interfering.
		I mention that because it seems that other advisers to the incoming president have spoken of creating an investment fund to benefit.
		Mr. Lutnick, I think, has.
		Mr. Paulson did on the campaign trail.
		What are your thoughts about that concept?
		I think they spoke about it as sovereign wealth.
		I'm speaking about it as a fund to bail out social.
		Not, by the way, all risk borne by the fund, none of the risk borne by the beneficiary, she would get her scheduled benefits.
		What are your thoughts on that?
scott bessent ▲ ● ▼		Senator Cassidy, first of all, I want to emphasize that President Trump has said that Social Security and Medicare will not be touched.
unidentified		But I'm saying touch in a positive way.
unidentified		Not cut benefits, not raise taxes, indeed increase benefits, and take that 25% cut off the table, just to make that clear.
scott bessent ▲ ● ▼		No, I understand.
		And those would not be touched.
		One of the tragedies of this blowout in the budget deficit is that we have to get our short-term house in order.
		Before we can start implementing the smart plans such as yours, I do believe that there is discussion to leverage the asset side of the U.S. balance sheet, as we discussed in your office, in favor of a fund, whether it's a sovereign wealth fund, something, as you discussed, a supplemental fund.
		So that is very much in the mix.
		I look forward to getting back to you on it.
		President Trump hasn't taken office yet.
		If confirmed, this is something that I think could be very exciting because we always look at the debt of the United States and we have fantastic assets that could be earning, leveraged, or used for multiple this is something that I think could be very exciting because we always Thank you.
unidentified		Senator Warner.
mark warner ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
		Congratulations.
		Mr. Besson, it's good to see you and enjoyed our meeting.
		I've got some specific questions I want to ask, but I just, and I don't want to litigate this now, but I do feel as someone working with Senator Crapo and others, when we took on, I still think the most comprehensive Pope Simpson-Bowles, and we took arrows from each side. I still think the most comprehensive Pope Simpson-Bowles, and we
		And I'm looking at any kind of pro-growth policies possible, but I just respectfully want to say there is not an industrial nation, first world industrial nation in the world.
		That gets anywhere close to meeting their revenue needs.
		And I'm not proposing that America spend anywhere like the Europeans at 17 to 18 percent of GDP. It's never happened historically.
		It's not going to happen in a Trump administration or future Democratic administrations.
		So I just, you know, we'll have a time to talk back and forth on this.
		But I just, I can't let some of this go without at least offering something that there's not an economist around.
		I wouldn't concur.
		We've got to bring down spend, but the revenue side alone is not—excluding that, we're never going to get to a balance.
		I do want to raise on a more positive note, again, something I worked closely with the chairman on and actually worked with your predecessor on and was very proud of that relationship.
		I disagreed with Secretary Mnuchin on a lot of things, but I found a lot of things to agree with him on.
		A relatively narrow part of the financial sector called Community Development Financial Institutions, CDFIs.
		Under the previous Trump administration, we put about $12 billion in.
		This serves access to capital for underserved communities.
		Under Senator Crapo's leadership, we built a bipartisan CDFI caucus, 12Ds, 12Rs.
		It's tough to get 24 bipartisan senators to agree on anything.
		It's kind of low-hanging fruit.
		There are things we can do to continue to expand this area, creating a secondary market.
		We've got some bipartisan legislation there trying to reward patient capital.
		A lot of these institutions now have Tier 1 equity, but they've got to get patient capital.
		And again, Senator Crapo and I have worked with the current administration, would want to work with yours on something called the Economic Opportunity Coalition.
		But can you say a word or two about how you view...
steve bannon ▲ ● ▼		What you're seeing already is that they're disagreeing on some of the tax policy, but...
		At least with Warner and some of the more sophisticated financial guys, I think they're engaging, Scott, in the types of discussions we want to have about using the balance sheet of the United States.
		We talk about the debt all the time.
		The assets of this country are enormous, and are we using those in the smartest way possible to create maybe funds that invest in the United States?
		The balance sheet just kind of sits there, so I think you're going to have some very sophisticated people.
		Look at that.
		Warner right there disagrees.
		Remember, Scott's saying, hey, we got enough revenue at, you know, four and a half, five trillion dollars, enough's coming in, you got to cut spending.
		Or to cut spending, to get that six and a half or six down to five, somewhere you got to cut a trillion dollars.
		If you're not going to touch entitlements, which I agree right now, you cannot touch them because the American people are not convinced that you would do anything but screw them over.
		You're going to have to look at discretionary.
		If you're going to look at discretionary, you've got to look at defense and the social programs.
		That's what it is.
		It's not simply bodies.
		It's also programmatically.
		And somebody's got to take a hard look at this.
		I'm going to be harping on this because we're just kidding ourselves and having a fantasy talk.
		I consider this a turnaround.
		It is a turnaround.
		Some tough decisions have got to be made, and you've got to go in with the mentality that it's a turnaround.
		President Trump's coming back.
		The American people said, hey, we can't take any more Biden.
		We've got to turn this thing around.
		The guy, but we have to have a meaningful discussion about the finances of this and the economics of it, how it's going to be financed.
		It's not sustainable where we're not close to being sustainable.
		My Patriot Supply.
		Talk about sustainable.
		Make sure your life is right now.
		My Patriot Supply.
		MyPatriotSupply.com slash Bannon.
		The number one company in the prepper industry.
		These preppers were flakes.
		Not so much anymore.
		Prepare for tomorrow.
james lankford ▲ ● ▼		That after the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act of 2017, now we've had several years to be able to see what happens.
		And now I believe the statistic you gave is the top 50% of earners in America now pay 98% of the taxes.
		Did I hear that correctly?
		Because I've heard over and over again that it's only the wealthy, only the big companies that get it.
		I would encourage, quite frankly, every Oklahoma company that's a small business to ask their CPA this year when they're filing their taxes, what if the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act expires next year?
		What would my taxes be next year?
		And have small business owners ask that question of their CPA. And I think they will be quite surprised, based on all the rhetoric, to say this is only about big companies and wealthy people.
		That every small business will quickly find out.
steve bannon ▲ ● ▼		With Scott Besson, we've been following Treasury all morning.
		We're going to continue on our Rumble channel and on Getter.
		Is that correct?
		Both of those will continue on with the testimony of Scott Besson.
		I may be jumping in there on both of those to give some commentary.
		We're going to be back at 5. Charlie Kirk's going to pick up at noon.
		We'll be back at 5. Update on Pam Bondi's day two of confirmation.
		How Lee Zeldin did at EPA and, of course, Scott Besson at Treasury.
		Right there, you see a lot of the discussion we're having about spending, taxes, all of it.
		We're getting a lot more of that.
		Like I said, one more time, this is a restructuring.
		This is a turnaround.
		You have to be very tough, tough but fair.
		We've got to stop this happy talk about 10 years this, 10 years that.
		It's what this budget, what this deficit is, and the next deficit.
		Right now, if we can't get those to under a trillion dollars in both years, we're kidding ourselves.
		It has to happen.
		You can't continue to add this.
		Besson's got $7 trillion of treasuries he's got to sell in this current year.
		Inflation's not going to go away.
		It's only going to get worse.
		Look at the 10-year bond market, as we've trained you to look at.
		10-year bond market's telling you right there, it's going to get more expensive.
		Inflation's not going to go away.
		It has nothing to do with President Trump's economic plan.
		Right now, the financing part of it is going to drive inflation.
		Shemaine Nugent joins us.
		Ma'am, you're a health expert, you're a best-selling author, you're a podcaster, all of it.
		All of us need tips on how to get in better shape, how to live a healthier lifestyle, myself included.
		I know that comes as a shock to the audience.
		What is your number one recommendation, ma'am?
shemane nugent ▲ ● ▼		Hey, Steve.
		Well, thanks for having me.
		Yeah, I've been in the health and fitness industry for 44 years.
		And I always see people making the same bad choices and they want to start a New Year's resolution.
		But it doesn't stick because they're trying to make big changes fast.
		My number one advice is start small.
		And it's way easier to stick with it that way.
		And the first thing I'd look at is your diet.
		But it's tough to overhaul the whole diet overnight.
		I mean...
		I like chocolate chip cookies.
		I'm not going to give those up.
		But starting with one simple change, like swapping out one bad habit like drinking sodas, for one scoop of Field of Greens in your water.
		And believe it or not, Steve, that one little tweak is going to help you start feeling better and noticing the difference.
steve bannon ▲ ● ▼		So what would be the difference?
		You're an expert at this.
		If you stop the Diet Cokes or you stop the Cokes, worse, or the Mountain Dews, and you go to a scoop of Field of Greens, what is it first that you're going to feel?
		And why is it better?
unidentified		Well, for me, I go off.
shemane nugent ▲ ● ▼		How I feel.
		I'm 62 now, and certain things don't work for me anymore.
		Ted and I are both hunters, and we pretty much live off the land.
		But especially during the winter, we can't always find fruits and veggies.
		And quite honestly, I don't trust the grocery stores.
		So to feel better, I like Field of Greens.
		I get more energy.
		And you and I were talking.
		You said, boy, you're going to have to have a lot of energy to be married to Ted Nugent.
		That's why I take Field of Greens, Steve.
steve bannon ▲ ● ▼		I didn't want to say you're the parental supervision, but you're the parental supervision.
		That's full-time.
		Does field of greens give you an energy boost?
		I know it's good for diet.
		It's good for health because they don't have the powders.
		They're not artificial.
		It's organic.
		But do you get an energy boost also?
shemane nugent ▲ ● ▼		I am at times kind of the parent in the room.
		I will put a scoop of field of greens in water and hand it to him.
		And I'll just say, drink this.
		And he doesn't question me, which is great.
		But the reason I like it is I have done my research.
		Doctors develop field of greens carefully.
		And every fruit and every vegetable has a specific health benefit, like heart, liver, lungs, metabolism, and even healthy weight.
		But what I really love about it?
		Yeah, it gives me all the energy.
		My stomach feels flatter.
		But they've got this better health promise where if you start taking it, you go to your doctor, and your doctor doesn't notice the difference in your blood work and in your overall health, you get all your money back.
		Like, who does that?
		For me, it's great.
steve bannon ▲ ● ▼		What is it?
		People come to you, I'm sure, all the time because you're one of the biggest names in the business.
		Why is it Field of Greens versus other things that you've seen?
shemane nugent ▲ ● ▼		Again, for me, I've had a lot of sponsors.
		People request to be a sponsor.
		And my number one thing is, send me the product.
		I have to try it first.
		I have to make sure I like it.
		And both Ted and I do.
		And that's the number one reason.
		Again, as we age, it's all about when you wake up in the morning, like Ted and I, the number one question is, how do you sleep?
		How do you feel?
		And overall, I know that Field of Greens is working because when I don't take it, When I'm traveling and I miss it, I don't feel as good.
steve bannon ▲ ● ▼		Go to fieldofgreens.com right now.
		You get a 20% discount.
		Put in promo code Bannon.
		That's Field of Greens.
		You guys are used to this.
		Fieldofgreens.com.
		Promo code Bannon.
		20% discount.
		Shemay, do you have social media or is there any way people can also follow you?
shemane nugent ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, absolutely.
		I'm all over social media.
		I have a show right here on Real America's Voice called Faith and Freedom.
		I do have a new book out called Abundantly Well, and I talk about all of these different things that you can do.
		But yeah, I'm all over social media.
steve bannon ▲ ● ▼		Shemaine Nugent, thank you very much for doing this, and thank you very much for keeping Ted healthy.
steve bannon ▲ ● ▼		He's a patriot and a hero.
shemane nugent ▲ ● ▼		And as are you, and we thank you for what you're doing, Steve.
shemane nugent ▲ ● ▼		God bless.
steve bannon ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, man.
		Appreciate you.
		Okay, Charlie Kirk's up next.
		We're going to be back 5 to 7 tonight.
		If anybody is in the general area, I think Mo and Gratian put up the, we're having an event tonight.
		We'd love to see as many as possible.
		I think it sold out earlier.
		I think we've tried to increase the capacity.
		If Raheem will let us, we're going to try to do that.
		So make sure you go check it out.
		Charlie Kirk next.
		Jack Posobiec after that.
		We're going to continue to stream.
		I guess Grace and Moe will pull this off.
		Continue to stream on Rumble and on Getter, Scott Besson's testimony.
		He's going to be one of the key people in the...
		In the cabinet for President Trump, like I said, this financial and economic...
		Remember, you have an economics piece, and then you get the financial, how are you going to actually finance it?
		Right now, we have a financial problem.
		That financial problem is going to drive inflation.
		We've spent too much money.
		I'm not so sure we spent it wisely.
		I keep saying the use of proceeds, where is it?
		Where's the 36 trillion?
		We're getting tonight, 5 o'clock.
		A lot going on today, Pam Bondi.
		We're going to have updates on vote on all the cabinet confirmations.
		We'll see you back here 5 p.m.
		Eastern Standard Time, back in the world.
maggie hassan ▲ ● ▼		My other top priorities is working on a bipartisan basis to lower costs for families.
maggie hassan ▲ ● ▼		Under President-elect Trump's policies, do you believe that prices for families will go up or down?

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