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Dec. 6, 2024 - Bannon's War Room
47:58
WarRoom Battleground EP 666: The Media Attacks Won’t Deter MAGA Nominees
Participants
Main voices
j
joe allen
11:52
s
steve bannon
28:35
Appearances
n
nicolle wallace
01:24
| Copy link to current segment

Speaker Time Text
nicolle wallace ▲ ● ▼
Let me just show folks, again, this is in their own telling.
I mean, people that Donald Trump has explicitly threatened at rallies and in social media posts, he's discussed a tribunal for Liz Cheney.
I believe a military tribunal was the language he used.
He's discussed court-martials for Mark Milley, for Stan McChrystal, for Admiral McRaven.
He has talked about prosecutions of Adam Schiff.
Other prosecutors involved in the cases against him.
He's targeted judges.
This is a list of Donald Trump's nominee to be FBI director from his own book.
Kash Patel's book is called Deep State.
This is an enemies list from his book.
I'll read some of the names of folks that we've covered here.
Actually, you know what?
I'll read the names of the people that are Trump's own hires and appointments.
Michael Atkinson, Bill Barr, John Bolton, Pat Cipollone.
Mark Esper, Stephanie Grisham, Gina Haspel, Charles Kupperman, Ryan McCarthy, Mark Milley, Pat Philbin, Rod Rosenstein, Christopher Wray.
Your thoughts about how the Biden administration is taking seriously the things that Donald Trump and his pick to lead the FBI have said about who and how they would target.
unidentified
I think they're taking us seriously because everything we've seen since the results of the election have come in has actually sort of moved us more toward a true and deep-seated concern that he might follow through on some of these threats.
And I would say in particular...
Announcing that he intends to fire Christopher Wray, the director of the FBI, and appoint Kash Patel, someone who has his own enemies list, which you've shown there on the screen, and someone who has repeatedly, just like Trump, repeatedly talked about retribution.
They have to take it seriously.
And I'll note something we talked about the other night when I was on...
Nicole, which is that Kash Patel has even said, you know, we're coming after you.
We're coming after the deep state.
We're coming after journalists.
And we don't know whether it'll be criminal or civil.
We'll figure that out later.
That is the tell.
That is the tell that it's not based on anything.
Because to bring a criminal case, you have to have probable cause that a crime is committed.
You have to be able to prove that crime beyond a reasonable doubt.
To bring a civil case, you have to have a cause of action with an injury and culpability by the person for creating that injury.
He didn't suggest there's any of that.
It's just these are people that they feel wronged Donald Trump, and they want to go after them.
So it's extraordinary to even think the White House would be considering this for people who there's just nothing in the record that would suggest had committed any kind of crimes, because pardons are—it's not required by the Constitution.
Constitution is not required by any law that pardons only be given to people who've actually been indicted or prosecuted or convicted of a crime.
That's not required.
But it's always been thought to be something of an implicit when you accept a pardon, something of an implicit admission of guilt to something.
And this would be very different because for people on these lists, I think every one of them believes they've done nothing unlawful that they would deserve any investigation for an And the reason it's being considered is something that Harry said and that others have been talking about today, which is that just launching investigations, bogus or not, really put people through the ringer.
It can be financially disastrous to hire attorneys.
It can be disastrous to your job, your reputation, your family.
So I think that's why they're thinking about this so carefully.
steve bannon ▲ ● ▼
Oh, yeah.
Welcome back.
I think you're going to be put to the ringer, no doubt, because you committed vast amounts of crimes.
Rudy, your thoughts there?
By the way, Nicole Walsh, you've got to get better prepped.
It's not Deep State.
The book is Government Gangsters.
There's a whole appendix in there.
We've made the film.
Go to warroom.film.
It's the first film in our new War Room series, warroom.film.
I made it before I went to prison for a misdemeanor, I might add.
They never mention that.
They never say he went for a misdemeanor and went for a traffic ticket for four months to a federal prison.
They always fail to mention that.
Rudy, you just heard it right there.
They're in full meltdown, and they're in full meltdown because they know the crimes they did.
Give us your take on this.
unidentified
Did I lose his audio?
steve bannon ▲ ● ▼
Okay.
We have to reboot...
Rudy, you've got to get that technology down, my man.
Rudy Giuliani.
Oh, my Lord.
I guess it would be the same if I had to do it.
Here's the state of play.
Cash Patel is actually getting traction in the United States Senate.
If we can get the Cornyn piece on Hugh Hewitt, let's go ahead and try to play that again.
Denver, if you've got it, let me know.
You've had Cornyn come in and say, hey, Cash Patel is going to be...
Not just nominated, he's going to be approved.
And they're saying because they're checking with people that work with Cash and Devin Nunez when Cash was the chief investigator and then became general counsel.
Let's go ahead and play it?
Yeah, let's go ahead and play it.
unidentified
First of all, will Cash Patel be confirmed, as I expect he will be, but you're the guy who knows.
What do you think?
Yes, he will be.
People I have great respect for, people like Trey Gowdy, have recommended him highly.
I am still working to schedule a meeting with Cash, but I think, you know, certainly has vast experience, including working on the House Intelligence Committee on the Russiagate scam and the Steele dossier scandal.
So I look forward to meeting with him.
I met with Pam Bondi, the next attorney general, yesterday.
She speaks highly of him.
So people I know and who I trust speak well of him, and I'm looking forward to meeting with him.
That is great news.
steve bannon ▲ ● ▼
Hugh Hood even says it's great news.
To go back to Dave Bossie, the president gets the cabinet and the senior officials he wants, unless there's some horrible aberration.
I think all of Biden's got through because Republicans roll over.
There's a story in The Hill right now that's, you know, it's the lead story in The Hill.
And it's saying that Pete's attempt to be Secretary of Defense is starting to lose altitude.
And that Trump's not helping it by having talked to DeSantis.
And DeSantis' people, I will tell you, are pushing hard that this thing is imminent.
Now, Pete Hexeth is up on Capitol Hill and he's fighting like crazy.
So my strongest recommendation for the transition is to start sending a clear message.
You've got a lot of people in this audience, a lot of people at Boer Room and other far-right media, we're proud to be called far-right because the centrists are a bunch of wimps, conservatives, I don't know, not impressed, that are fighting hard for Pete Hexeth.
Now, Pete Hex was not a choice.
He wasn't at the top of the thing.
This is President Trump's choice.
Kind of came out of left field.
But I think people said, hey, Pete's a warrior.
Pete's a fighter.
You put some people around him, Pete can do a great job as Secretary of Defense.
The recruitments are down.
They seem to have lost the warrior ethos.
Pete Hex has all that.
There's a little hair on this nomination.
Absolutely not going to sit there and go, no, but like Lindsey Graham said, and here I am quoting Lindsey Graham on Hannity.
I know.
But Lindsey Graham said, hey, if somebody's prepared to come to the confirmation hearing and stand and take the oath and give testimony to the senators on the committee, and I think that's armed services, and Lindsey's on that, to give testimony, then they'll hear him out and make a decision.
But if it was just anonymous quotes and some things from things that were filed and no crimes, he was never charged with a crime, then, hey, that's kind of water over the bridge, and that's where we are.
And does Pete take a drink?
Hey, he does.
You know, Pete will take a drink every now and again.
But he said, hey, I'm not going to do that anymore during the time of secretary of defense.
So Hegseth, until we hear otherwise, is the individual that's put forward as the nominee, and he's up there heart and soul today.
And you have good men like Tuberville and Jim Banks and others are coming out and saying, hey, you know, I support this guy.
Jim Banks, a very serious guy, very serious guy in the House.
Like I said, Navy, I think, Lieutenant Commander.
Serious guy in the House.
And then a very, very, very serious guy.
He just ran for the U.S. Senate and got President Trump's endorsement and had a blowout win in Indiana.
And he's looking to put himself to get on the Armed Services Committee because he knows so much about this.
He just came out with kind of a ringing endorsement.
Now let's go pivot back.
So Heggs is fighting.
We've got his back.
There's some, and I think these leaks, you know, they talk about they don't want leakers.
Well, hey, you shouldn't be leaking on Pete Hegseth.
Give the guy a fighting chance.
Let's get in there and fight for him.
I will tell you that he has the warrior spirit.
Look, people know I'm not exactly a Ron DeSantis fan, and here's one of the reasons.
Let's just go back in history and talk about how it's going to work.
And I said this at the Club 47 the other night.
In the darkest days of this entire movement, this movement had the darkest days, were not one that evening when the election was stolen in 20, because it wasn't really stolen for about five days after.
I mean, it was in the process of being stolen, but it wasn't really kind of pulled together until that Saturday after, I think, the November 3rd date.
The darkest days when President Trump left the White House, left Washington, D.C., and that pathetic ceremony they had on the west steps of the Capitol, which is really, which is absolutely pathetic.
Remember, they had the big circles.
They had, you know, a handful of people.
Oh, because COVID. COVID's so bad.
You know, six degrees of separation, 10 feet of separation.
The Fauci later admitted it was a lie, just a total lie.
Oh, but no, Fauci should not be investigated for anything.
Fauci's one of the names.
He should not be investigated for anything.
Liz Cheney, certainly nothing on that committee should not be investigated.
No, no, no, no, no.
They're all nervous.
Shifty shift with the lies.
He said came right on Rachel Mowdown and said, I just sat on the Intelligence Committee.
I just sat down the skiff.
There's absolute proof of Donald Trump's, you know, working with the Russians for his victory and now working as a Russian asset, a Russian agent.
All lies.
Total lies.
All has to be investigated.
All has to be adjudicated.
Has to be totally transparent.
But you see from this show and Cash's book and Cash's movie and others, they're in total meltdown.
Look at them.
I've never seen them like and like.
You know why?
They finally know there's some people on offense.
They finally know that some people are not going to tolerate this anymore.
That to save this republic, we have to do this.
And do this we shall.
President Trump's behind this 100%.
Now, Pete Hexeth, people have to get in back of Pete Hexeth.
Pete Hexeth is making the case, and when Pete Hexeth has someone like a Jim Banks, who's a, you know, steady Eddie from Indiana, you don't see him out in Indiana lighting their hair on fire.
When Jim Banks walks out and says, I heard Pete, I heard what I had to say, I support him.
You're hearing other people say, I support this guy.
I think he's over at Ron Johnson's right now.
If we get any audio on that or video on that, let me know.
I think he's over at Ron Johnson.
He's seeing some pretty serious, he's seeing some pretty good people today.
Let's pivot back to cash.
And you notice here, by me taking all the time on Pete and all the time on Cash, what we're not talking about is the chip shots they're taking on Tulsi Gabbard.
They're essentially calling Tulsi Gabbard a Russian asset.
It is a bald-faced lie from people who have never put themselves in harm's way.
Tulsi Gabbard, Ben Assuri, Tulsi Gabbard, I think is a hero.
And a brave young woman.
And she's going to be one hell of a DNI. Director of National Intelligence.
Couldn't be happier, couldn't be prouder.
And you have these people sitting there who have done nothing for their country, snipping out or calling a Russian asset.
This is how scummy these people are.
And they're over in the White House right now.
You know when the White House are working all night about do they give these blanket pardons?
Preemptive pardons?
Preemptive pardons?
Think about that for a second.
That's how nervous they are about their crimes.
They know what they've done.
They know the guilt.
Why do you think McCabe's up there wetting himself on TV? They understate Judgment Day was on the 5th of November, and Accountability Day is going to start.
Their lives have changed.
They never in a million years, in 10 million years, in 50 million years, ever thought Trump would come back because they were burying him in lawfare.
Bannon's going to prison.
Navarro's going to prison.
This is done.
They're skipping around.
She's skipping around.
Hey, baby.
How's it working out for you, Nancy?
They hate you or the Democrat Party.
Don't want to hear from you.
They're gone.
We're doing fine.
We're empowered.
Our time in prison empowered us.
We're feeling empowered, feeling good.
Like that victory, fighting every day, getting nominees through.
By the way, nominees are the...
This is the easy part, folks.
It's not the hard part.
This is the easy part.
We control the Senate.
These are fantastic people.
More importantly, they're fantastic people that President Trump wants.
That's all you need to know.
This is the easy part.
When you see, and we're working out right now, what has to happen.
Just had Burchett come out, and I guess Vivek and Elon had a discussion today with some of the conference.
And Burchett said, hey, what's going to happen?
The problem you're going to have is up here with the morass of voting.
Look, there's laws and regulations.
They understand that.
This is why you've got Bill McGinley from the White House.
We're going to have pay a letter over at OMB. Hopefully Jeff Clark will be over there.
You've got Russ Vogt.
You got some serious people coming together to make sure there's doge appropriations, the deconstruction of the administrative state, and the radical cutting of costs is all done very smartly.
And already the blob, already the cartels tell them it can't happen.
Just like they're pushing back on Pete Hexitt.
If this was a normal, just go along to get along, fella or gal, you wouldn't see any firestorm.
You wouldn't see any firestorm.
If Kash Patel was just some standard stock, stiff, you're going to put in charge of the FBI, or even better, one of their criminals like Comey, or you get a guy like Brennan or McCabe, McCabe and Comey who are criminals, and will be proven to be criminals, and will, in front of a jury, be found guilty as criminals after they're investigated with total transparency and indicted with total transparency, and they will spend a long time in prison.
And I will tell you, Prison will be quite tough for them.
They're going to be quite tough.
Yep, yep.
Just the reality of our prison system, it's going to be quite tough for guys like McCabe.
They're not going to handle it well.
The unctuous, officious McCabe and Comey, they're not going to handle it well.
Chris Ray, not going to handle it well.
Merrick Garland, not going to.
Merrick Garland is going to be tough for you.
It's going to be tough.
Lisa Monaco is going to be tough for you.
It's going to be tough.
But hey, you know, life has some struggles.
Just embrace it.
Cash has got a book, Government Gangsters.
Cash lays in the book who's in the deep state, the executive branch deep state.
List them all out.
He's not hiding.
We made the film.
Go to warroom.film and check this out.
It takes about an hour.
It'll get you fully up to speed.
You'll understand the deep state.
You'll understand the interconnectivity of the deep state.
You'll understand who the players are.
You'll be mad enough.
You'll spit at the end of it right on the floor.
You'll be so mad.
You will be so absolutely mad about what you see and what you understand.
And Kash Patel, just Kash, look into a camera with a lot of different footage.
Other interviews are done in there.
We're very proud of this film.
And it's going to have a big impact.
And Kash Patel is going to get confirmed.
Kash Patel is going to get confirmed.
John Coyne said it.
Not Steve Bannon on the Hugh Hewitt show.
If they had any qualms whatsoever, and cash is starting to get momentum, I can see that.
Big story in the Hill right now is that Pete is starting to decelerate.
Now, behind the scenes, I'm hearing a different story, and we're all in.
And I tell people, we're not going to abandon Pete Hexeth.
We're not going to do it.
We're just not going to do it.
Pete Hex is a good man.
And until there's some designation, I would tell the transition, hey, guys and gals, this is the easy part.
Picking the team and putting up nominees to get nominations, yes, it's time-consuming.
You've got to make great judgments.
But if you look at particularly the legislative schedule with the executive, what you have to do with deportations of $10 million Minimum illegal aliens and plus all the criminals.
When you look at what's happening with these wars, when you look at what's happening to the balance sheet of the country with the $36 trillion right now and even more than that that's out there, right?
And all the non-contingent liabilities, or excuse me, all the contingent liabilities.
Look at what has to happen in the economy and how this has to be sequenced and how it has to go through.
And with these thin majorities and these demons trying to fight you every way and the resistance out there of the governors and all these guys going to run, men and women going to run for president of the United States.
If you look at internationally, the Chinese Communist Party and others are trying to resist this.
If you look at the bond vigilantes, the complexity of this It could be overwhelming, and this is what I tell people, just put it all aside.
Don't worry about the complexity.
A simple plan aggressively executed.
General William Tecumseh Sherman, a simple plan aggressively executed.
The simple plan here for the nominees is very simple.
He's got nominees, and what I would let him do is talk to media, be out there with media, walking through what their plans are, walking through the three or four things they're going to do for President Trump in this second term, and then have at it.
These people are all great salesmen.
Have at it and answer the question.
When you go through these problems, answer the question.
But don't go radio silent for two months.
This is what they want.
They're going to pick you off one at a time.
This is Alinsky 101. Call them from the herd and pick them up.
We saw this in the first week with Matt Gaetz.
I wish, and I recommend it, Matt Gaetz stick the whole way.
Why?
Because if Matt Gaetz had still been in there and going through up to Christmas, he'd be drawing so much fire because they would be freaking out.
He'd be attorney general.
He'd be drawing so much fire, you wouldn't even hear Pete Hicks' name.
Cash would be gliding into here.
The media, and this is why the concept, the constructs always flood the zone.
There's only so much they can handle.
First of all, they're not particularly bright.
They're not particularly hardworking.
So you can overwhelm the system quite easily.
People say, Ben, that's so terrible.
Well, hey, that's just information warfare.
They're doing it all the time, non-stop, relentlessly.
Look at this propaganda they're putting up on TV. And you've got to fight back.
This is why I say on the confirmation themselves, when we get through this interim period where they're actually going to the Hill and making the first stops and having a cup of coffee and saying, Pete Hegg says, here's what I want to do.
Then you actually have the committees, whether it's armed service or finance or banking or homeland security.
All the individual committees actually run the confirmation process.
Then they vote.
Then it goes to the floor.
It goes to the floor for a general vote.
So now is that interim period.
But when they come for the confirmation themselves, I'm a huge believer that they get all the big ones up right up front.
Don't give them any time to breathe.
They swear in.
The lobbyists take them out for their first free steak dinner.
And then get right up to the hill, fourth or fifth.
Boom.
Hit it.
Let's roll.
Let's get the top six or eight.
Overwhelm the system.
Overwhelm the system.
They're defenders of a corrupt system.
They're defenders of corrupt institutions.
They admit this.
They admit, on this one, we got them boxed in.
Hell, Alex Wagner and Chris Hayes, they cry and whine about it every night.
Oh, how do we get in a position?
We got to defend these institutions.
They're not defensible, particularly in the current state.
They've ossified.
This situation with the administrative state and the deep state, this American empire that nobody ever planned on, is metastasizing and really a leviathan that's out of control.
This is what Doge is about.
And this is what, you know, conservatives talk about, you know, I want limited government.
Well, baby, you ain't going to get limited government unless you go in and take a trenching tool and dig it out.
They're just not going to sit there and go, oh, you want limited government?
I hear it in every campaign speech.
We're in limited government.
Tell me what got done.
Nothing.
You voted for appropriation.
And this is my point about let's not go through more of the madness of doing all these individual appropriations bills and getting to a number that's got a six in front of it, a six handle, and then have the Doge guys say, hey, we promised Trump we're going to take a trillion dollars out.
Well, hey, maybe we do this up front.
Let's not pass something that goes through the total – we go through every page of this thing, every page.
Let's stop it.
Get the Doge guys.
And you're seeing a killer team being put together.
This is my point.
These are the pros from Dover.
You've got OMB and Russ Vogt and that team over there as good as you got.
Pound for pound, the best.
Pound for pound, as good as anything that MAGA brings to the table.
Anything Trump brings to the table, the standards over there at OMB. Just is.
And Russ Vogt, a quiet guy, intense guy, a guy who knows urgency.
He's putting the whip hand to him.
We've got to deliver here.
We have to deliver.
And he knows how to do it.
You combine that with Vivek and Elon and the team, they're bringing together a professor.
You're throwing a Bill McGinley, a couple, three great lawyers that kind of anchor it in the White House.
You've got something special there.
These are the types of things that we can do.
These are the types of things that we can accomplish.
And all they're trying to do is chop block us every day and pay attention to, oh, you know, Pete Hegseth, you know, had a couple of three beers at a strip club.
You know, it is what it is, right?
He's a leader of men.
And Pete will get recruiting up, definitely will.
One thing we're doing here is we love to give you the big ideas because ideas have consequences.
A lot of this thing, you know, people running around putting together...
We like to get you the big idea and see how it flows through a system.
And then that's how you understand of what the problems with the system are, what the possibilities and potentialities of a system are in process.
This concept of modern monetary theory is one of the biggest ideas that's come into kind of not just modern finance, but modern life in the last, I don't know, 50 years.
Came out of France.
I think the guy's named Piketty.
I probably pronounced that wrong, but Thomas Piketty, I think it was, professor, wrote a book called Capital.
Modern monetary theory.
And I think when the margin call happens on the $300 trillion of debt we have worldwide, it will go down as one of the most redonkulous things that people ever believed.
What we're doing now at Birch Gold, the Birch Gold team's helping me.
We're gonna break it all down for you.
I think it'll be the eighth free installment at the end of the dollar empire.
Why are we doing it and why are we doing it now?
Why are we, you know, with everything we got going on, why are we spending time with this?
Because it's important for you to know this.
And why is that?
Because you, ladies and gentlemen, are the war room posse.
And at the very mention of your name, you strike fear into the established order.
Why is that?
You've gone up the learning curve.
They can't play games with you because you kind of have learned what the games are and you learn what the system is.
Learn the system first before you want to change the system.
So we're going to come out with modern monetary theory, the idea that broke the world.
And we're going to make sure you understand it fully because all the fights, the debt ceiling, boom, the debt ceiling deal expires.
Wait for it, I think on January 2nd of 2025. Doesn't get any better than this.
Merry Christmas, Kevin McCarthy.
Thank you, brother.
Thank you for the holiday gift, the gift that keeps on giving.
Birchgold.com slash Bannon.
Go sign up today.
Get the other, I think, seven or eight installments all free.
But talk to an expert.
Talk to one of the experts at Birchgold, Philip Patrick.
And the team over there will talk to you about gold as a hedge.
Well, it's only been a hedge for 5,000 years.
Find out how it can protect you in times of turbulence.
I think we're going to go through some turbulence.
I look at Ukraine.
I look at the Middle East.
I look at the Persians.
I look at what's happened in Syria, the Red Sea, the South China Sea.
Yeah, I think there's turbulence ahead.
I'm just kind of guessing.
Just feeling it.
Maybe some turbulence.
So talk to Philip Patrick and the team.
Or you can go to Bannon, get your phone at Bannon at 989898. In addition, if you like the geopolitics and capital markets, Jim Rickards, and thank God Rickards may be the one contributor that sticks around that doesn't go in the administration, although I think he may go in too.
Rickards, go to RickardsWarRoom.com, all one word.
You get everything.
You get his newsletters, access, newsletters, books, all of it.
Jim Rickards.
At Rickards, that's what it asks, WarRoom.com.
Okay, Johnny, Johnny Khan's going to take us out here with American Heart.
We'll be back in a moment.
A CEO of an insurance company was gunned down yesterday in cold blood.
This story is getting curiouser and curiouser.
May have to deal with artificial intelligence.
Joe Allen, our editor, will be with us next.
unidentified
Question.
When will it be malpractice to diagnose a patient without AI in the loop?
Your answer, within five years, within 10 years, within 20 years, or never?
I'm going to start with you.
I would say within five years.
Within five years.
steve bannon ▲ ● ▼
One year.
unidentified
Within one year.
steve bannon ▲ ● ▼
Within one year.
unidentified
Some of these complicated diagnoses, why would you not just search it?
It's right there.
Amazing.
Jim?
I would say less than five, for sure, yeah.
I would say practically within five years.
When the legal system evolves is a different question.
Peter, how would you answer it?
I'm going to push as hard as I can, as soon as I can.
20 minutes?
I think within five years is my answer.
Have you ever wondered what happens when artificial intelligence, the marvel of our age, is misused?
What if the largest health insurance company in the United States, UnitedHealth, uses a flawed AI algorithm to wrongfully deny critical health coverage to the elderly.
This is exactly what has been alleged in a lawsuit filed against UnitedHealthcare.
The algorithm at the center of this controversy is called NH-Predict, developed by a subsidiary of UnitedHealth, NaviHealth.
Its purpose?
To estimate the post-acute care needed by patients on a Medicare Advantage plan, including the date of discharge for the patient.
Sounds straightforward, doesn't it?
But here's where it gets murky.
Former employees of NaviHealth, including Amber Lynch, have come forward to shed light on the darker side of NIH Predict.
According to them, ever since the use of AI, the company's focus shifted from patient advocacy to performance metrics, with an emphasis on keeping post-acute care as short as possible.
We are following new developments out of New York City on the search for a gunman who shot and killed the CEO of UnitedHealthcare, Brian Thompson.
CBS News also confirms law enforcement found shell casings at the crime scene with the words deny, defend and depose written on them.
steve bannon ▲ ● ▼
Deny, defend, depose.
unidentified
Maybe the bullets were engraved with that.
steve bannon ▲ ● ▼
So, Joe Allen, what did I just see?
This thing is getting complicated.
What started off to look like kind of a mob hit on a guy, on an executive walking down, they talked about insider trading, all these other issues.
Now it may even take a darker and, quite frankly, more meaningful as people are saying, what's going on here?
So walk me through.
Why would AI... You're the world's expert, and you told us in your book, Dark Aeon, these are the types of things that are going to come up in the future.
Why would artificial intelligence that looked like it was there just for some efficiencies related to, you know, your insurance claims or insurance process, why would that be now the dark specter over this assassination of a chief executive officer at 6.45 a.m.
in Midtown Manhattan, sir?
joe allen ▲ ● ▼
Well, Steve, the shooter's motives, obviously, we don't know.
I think it's very likely that he's caught and we'll know a lot more in the future.
But what a lot of people are assuming, especially given the words engraved on the shell casings, Is that this was basically a disgruntled lone wolf, or at least made to appear as one.
As you saw in the video, the words deny, defend, depose were on the shell casings.
That mirrors to some extent a book that was published recently, Delay, Deny, Defend.
Why insurance companies don't pay claims and what you can do about it.
I think that's pretty clear what the guy was getting at.
So why would you have...
steve bannon ▲ ● ▼
But hang on a second.
Hang on a second.
I say this all the time.
I say, hey, one of the reasons insurance companies are some of the most profitable of what I refer to as financial institutions is that they're in the business...
Whether they want to admit it or not, they're in the business of not paying claims, right?
I mean, they're in the business of making sure that, hey, by the absolute letter of that insurance policy, it qualifies.
And their biggest thing is to make sure that they can get off the hook at any time possible.
Am I wrong in that?
joe allen ▲ ● ▼
Absolutely, that's correct.
And you can really see this in the public sentiment.
Think back to the attempted assassination on Trump and the way the public reacted.
Enormous amounts of support, obviously from Trump supporters and many people who weren't Trump supporters.
And yeah, there was a lot of gloating, a lot of kind of morbid commentary online, but nothing even close to what we're seeing around this shooting.
This is almost entirely a celebration of this guy's killing, and he was actually killed as opposed to Trump.
The reason goes to exactly what you're talking about.
Insurance companies are in the business of making money.
Their profits oftentimes depend on efficiencies that are going to lead to people either not getting sufficient care or dying, or at least that the families will have to pay for it.
You can, you know, UnitedHealth, like why would this guy Brian Thompson be the target of either a disgruntled shooter or whatever else may be going on there?
Well, UnitedHealth Group, which is over UnitedHealthcare, is, they acquired in 2020 a subsidiary called NaviHealth.
NaviHealth is employing the NH-Predict AI algorithm to determine who is and who isn't qualified for insurance coverage.
That especially includes Medicaid and Medicare Advantage.
So Medicare Advantage obviously is the partnership Between Medicare and private insurance companies like UnitedHealthcare.
Again, we don't know that this is exactly why the shooter did it, but we do know that this company was at the center of two lawsuits by two separate families in which their loved ones were booted from rehab centers due to the algorithm's decision as to whether or not they should be given coverage.
These families ended up owing Well over $100,000 in one case and $75,000 in the other.
And so you know that it's very likely that this is at least going through the shooter's mind, and certainly it's out there in the public.
Now, for me, Steve, I think it also speaks to this wider issue of artificial intelligence being suffused at all levels of society and human beings coming to rely on artificial intelligence, both for the information that the humans use to make decisions.
But also it's become increasingly a way to kind of pass off liability.
If you take humans out of the loop, then you you can either maybe pass off the liability to the producer of the algorithm itself.
Or in this case, at the very least, you don't have human beings with hearts, with a conscience that are going to at least raise questions.
Now, in the case of NaviHealth, Under United Healthcare, you did have a lot of employees that tried to deviate from the algorithm's prediction or the algorithm's recommendation as to what to do, but the company instructed the employees not to deviate more than 1% Within the range the algorithm's putting out,
which just shows you this is one of many thousands of companies that are either beginning to do this or have been doing it for years.
It shows you that you have the authority of algorithms, the authority of artificial intelligence being put above human beings who again Ideally, have some sense of decency, some sense of moral value, who would be much less likely to make that kind of calculation.
So is that why, you know, Steve, if I could fantasize my own kind of conspiracy theory around this, it would be, you know, incredible to find out that this guy was in fact inspired by AI, you know, determined patients being kicked out of the hospitals.
That the shooter maybe had a loved one that was, you know, kicked out for that reason.
That the shooter used AI to find his target.
And of course, if AI, like Clearview AI, was used to apprehend the shooter, yeah, that would be the perfect story.
But again, that's just me dreaming up possible stories.
For right now, what we do know, A, this guy obviously had an axe to grind and B, the public, a large swath of the public is completely behind him.
The hatred for these companies is so strong that this guy is being portrayed as a hero.
That itself should raise a lot of alarm bells, especially if the copycat effect is a thing.
I think we'll see another series of shootings that are similar to it, maybe not so worthy of celebration.
steve bannon ▲ ● ▼
And I've warned people, I've warned these donors and the wealthy that, you know, the system has to be radically changed.
If people just treat it like garbage or think they're treated like garbage, you're going to have like a French Revolution.
I don't want that.
I want to avoid it.
That's why I'm working.
I spend my life working for this.
And we just won, you know, with democratic means on November 5th to make changes.
This is why I have to make changes, establish order.
But I want to make sure everybody understands this.
Let's go back.
Algorithm is just a mathematical formula.
So you're saying right now, and you've warned about this, that the algorithm, and you've warned about this in national defense.
I mean, Henry Kissinger in his latest book warned about this, that the algorithm itself and the ability of the computer to process so quickly and so much data and so much information.
Actually makes that algorithm the thing that rules everything.
How did it work in insurance claims?
Why would this person, if this is the case, why would people, they're holding this person up as a hero when essentially he gunned down a human being.
He laid in wait.
And gunned down a human being at point-blank range and in cold blood.
Why would people say it's a hero?
What does the algorithm do that denies people more than if they actually were justified?
Is it cheating people out of something?
Is it weighted to the fact of getting them not fulfilling their coverage in their insurance policy they paid for to get the medical coverage?
Is that what the algorithm is doing?
It can be gamed that way?
joe allen ▲ ● ▼
In essence, yes.
What you have in the case of, say, an artificial intelligence system like NH-Predict that is being used for this purpose, it's being trained.
It's not programmed so much as it's trained.
That's really important to remember.
It's not like somebody is going in and by hand putting in all the data and telling it what to do.
They basically create an algorithm.
The algorithm goes over Things such as case histories, going back as far as their records, and then finding patterns as to how likely any given instance will match the previous case histories so that in the case, say, there was a gentleman, Gene Locken, in Wisconsin.
His family was one of the families that came forward with a lawsuit against United Healthcare and NaviHealth.
And what happened, he'd fallen, he'd broken his leg, he was in a rehab facility, and according to the lawsuit, the insurance company basically ran his case through the algorithm, and the algorithm is then trying to match his case to previous cases to see what the likelihood of his recovery is, what the likeliest time that should be allotted for that recovery is, and the algorithm said three weeks.
He was then kept in the facility, but the family had to pay And then he died later in the facility.
The whole point being, the algorithm is trained and the algorithm has a certain degree of freedom and flexibility, but you can always put these layers on top that are going to steer it towards efficiency, meaning it's going to steer it towards denying coverage rather than towards keeping the coverage intact.
It gets even more disturbing in my mind when it's applied in actual diagnosis.
So it's still, it's kind of similar.
You have a diagnostic AI that's been trained on all of these different cases.
It's been trained to find patterns in various different disease categories and so on and so forth.
So that when a doctor is asking the AI, that doctor is going to say, Okay, my patient has whatever, difficulty breathing.
My patient has pain in the chest, so on and so forth.
The AI is going to take all of those criteria, search through its database, so to speak, and try to match those symptoms with the disease.
Now, oftentimes this is very successful, but one of the real problems with all of this is that the AI companies and the companies adopting these AI companies talk about it like it's some sort of god, like it's some kind of genie that you can ask people The accuracy of these algorithms is really in question.
In the case of the insurance companies, you had 90% of court cases that have gone to argue that these algorithms were inaccurate were settled in the favor of the plaintiff, meaning that you could say, as it's often put in headlines, that in all those cases, the AI was 90% accurate.
Inaccurate.
Inaccurate.
So whether it's that extreme or not, it's certain that these algorithms are not perfect.
And yet the more human beings, whether they be doctors or whether they be someone who is reviewing an insurance claim, the more human beings are trained to look to the algorithm as a source of authority.
As we heard Peter Diamandis and Dr. Oz saying...
How long before someone is considered to be negligent for not using AI in the diagnosis process?
And you heard Oz say a year, you heard Peter Diamandis say five years.
What that shows is that within the medical community, there's at least a strong push to turn every doctor, every nurse, everyone at every stage of the system where it's possible into a human AI symbiote.
And it's conferring the social authority onto the algorithm and away from the human.
I'm glad to see any case where the AI works out, but I think the more we go down this road, the closer we get to a situation in which human beings have atrophied their own intuitions and their own reasoning and have basically turned that over, outsourced their brains to artificial intelligence.
steve bannon ▲ ● ▼
Hang on one second.
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Do we have time to play your second?
Well, I'll tell you what, we'll play that tomorrow.
I'm going to get you back on.
Let me ask you, there's a book, Deny, Defend, Depose.
That's what sent chills in this, and your report...
That the overwhelming number of comments, and it may say something about society, is kind of rooting this guy on as a Robin Hood.
Is that what I'm hearing?
Is that people are actually taking side of a cold-blooded murderer who gunned down an executive and it didn't shoot him mano a mano?
Laid in wait, came up and back on him with a silencer and gunned him down and shot him in the back, which is not traditionally the American way of the West where you call a guy out, you face him and you shoot him there.
Your thoughts, the book itself, the book is about people who have had problems in this area before Joe Allen.
joe allen ▲ ● ▼
Yes.
And, you know, just to put it out front, I mean, I get the sentiment, but I am in no way feeling exultant about some guy getting shot whom I don't know by some guy whom I don't know.
And it absolutely says a lot about where American society is, how morbid and gleeful this sort of death entertainment has become, in which actual people dying becomes a source of entertainment.
But that doesn't mean that that sentiment that is most likely behind the shooting and absolutely behind the commentary isn't legitimate.
You have all of these companies oftentimes in partnership with the government, as in this case of UnitedHealthcare and Medicaid Advantage.
You have this system that puts efficiency and profit over human beings that is increasingly functioning like a machine, that is increasingly turning to machines to make these anti-human decisions.
And so I think the public outcry...
however twisted and morbid it may be, definitely strikes at the heart of one of the major legitimate problems we have in the US, which is that these companies do not care about you and the government doesn't either.
We have an opportunity now with our people in to ensure that this doesn't happen.
HHS, the Department of Treasury, that is over these private insurance companies.
We have an opportunity to put pressure on them and do the right thing.
It's at least in our hands at this point.
steve bannon ▲ ● ▼
Joe, where do the people go to get all your content, including Dark Ann, the book that really lays this all out?
joe allen ▲ ● ▼
Sign copies at Jobot.xyz or DarkAeon.xyz.
And by the way, Steve, I'm sure you know I began using Aeon instead of Eon in your absence.
I felt like it would be passive-aggressive to pronounce it in my own quirky way.
So DarkAeon.xyz.
Sign copies.
steve bannon ▲ ● ▼
I love you, brother.
Joe Allen, our editor of All Things Singularity, I guess it is.
More than artificial intelligence.
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See you tomorrow morning, 10 a.m.
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