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Jan. 24, 2023 - Bannon's War Room
48:54
Episode 2467: The Pence Document Crisis
Participants
Main voices
c
caroline wren
06:55
m
matt gaetz
16:46
s
steve bannon
13:55
Appearances
b
boris epshteyn
03:52
j
jack posobiec
04:00
Clips
j
jake tapper
00:10
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Speaker Time Text
steve bannon
This is the primal scream of a dying regime.
unidentified
Pray for our enemies, because we're going medieval on these people.
steve bannon
You just got a free shot at all these networks lying about the people.
The people have had a belly full of it.
I know you don't like hearing that.
I know you've tried to do everything in the world to stop that, but you're not going to stop it.
It's going to happen.
jake tapper
And where do people like that go to share the big lie?
MAGA Media. I wish in my soul, I wish that any of these people had a conscience.
unidentified
Ask yourself, what is my task and what is my purpose?
steve bannon
If that answer is to save my country, this country will be saved.
unidentified
Warren, here's your host, Stephen K. Bannon.
Now, what I think a really interesting decision point for Attorney General Garland is, is, is he going to need a special counsel in this case?
And that gets into the politics of it.
Because remember, the trigger for him appointing the special counsel in former President Trump's case was former President Trump's announcement that he's a candidate again.
President Biden is a presumptive candidate for president.
Where is Mike Pence in the political situation moving forward, and how will that impact whether or not Attorney General Garland needs to cabin off this investigation just like the others?
steve bannon
Tuesday, 24 January, in the year of our Lord, 2023.
Thank you for joining us for the afternoon, early evening edition of And we're really grateful that this morning's guest, Congressman Matt Gaetz, was able to break away and join us for the first couple of segments.
And by the way, there's a pre-3 January Matt Gaetz in a post.
He is the hero. Of course, this audience needs no introduction.
He's the hero. Five days the change of the direction of the United States of America.
He was the chief strategist, the tactician, and really stood in a breach.
And what an incredible performance.
Talk about a man meeting a moment.
It was just amazing. Congressman, you've got a lot of thoughts about the FBI situation, but also breaking news today.
You can't make this up, right?
By the way, if we pitch this in Hollywood, we'd be thrown out of the room, right?
matt gaetz
You agree? We have so much to discuss from the indictment of the former FBI counterintelligence chief in the New York field office to these documents that relate to Mike Pence.
steve bannon
The Daily Mail just tells me it's a small thing about sanctions.
matt gaetz
It's just a A wise man taught me once catch the signal not the noise and there's a lot of signal in the indictment and I want to go through it in maybe our second segment but we've got to deal with this Mike Pence news right now and who you heard in that clip in the cold open that was Kerry Cordero now former Department of Justice official former official for the director of national intelligence currently on an advisory board in the Biden government for the Department of Homeland Security and what she is saying Is that whether or not Mike Pence gets a special counsel is dependent on whether or not he announces that he is running for president.
Now, why does that matter?
I posited the theory on this morning show that I believe the deep state is against Trump.
And I believe the deep state is against Biden.
I think that they prefer a different Democrat candidate and they prefer a different Republican candidate.
And they know that in the field as we see it today with Trump, maybe Nikki Haley, maybe Mike Pompeo, maybe Mike Pence.
I certainly hope my governor, Ron DeSantis, wants to be my governor for another two years.
But who knows? Maybe DeSantis.
Mike Pence is someone who absorbs a healthy share of the Republican primary electorate vote, maybe around 10%, 11%.
And if he's not there, those votes don't go to President Trump.
Those votes would go to somebody else to challenge President Trump.
And so I believe that the signal that you are hearing from the deep state's mouthpieces all over cable news today is sending a message to Mike Pence, don't announce for president.
Leave those votes on the table for someone else to coalesce and go against Trump.
steve bannon
Because she couldn't have been more brazen about it.
matt gaetz
It was just straight out. It was like quid pro quo.
That was more of a quid pro quo than the Trump-Zelensky call ever was.
steve bannon
Than a perfect phone call, right? Yeah.
And so, I mean, I love- If you're Mike Pence's lawyers, you're a pretty smart lawyer.
If you're Mike Pence's inner circle and his lawyers, what are they talking about?
matt gaetz
Well, right now, those folks have to consider the extent to which a candidacy is announced impacts a prosecutorial decision.
And you know what? I'm not a Mike Pence fan.
I've told you on this show, I think he's sometimes softer than the geese of sheets.
But at the same time, the deep state should not try to be getting Mike Pence out of the race for president.
If Mike Pence wants to run for president, he should have the right to do so and to face competition.
I know President Trump doesn't fear the competition.
And I thought it was really classy today that President Trump saw through this and he didn't take the bait and he put messages out saying that Mike Pence would never do anything purposefully wrong and that he thinks that this is all a bunch of nonsense, which it is. That's the noise, not the signal.
The signal is they are working to coalesce against Biden and against Trump.
steve bannon
You don't think, what about the argument that they're doing this because they want to dilute the pressure on Biden right now?
matt gaetz
If that were the case, they would have done it when they first got the Biden information before they turned the heat up on Trump.
That would have been the smart decision.
If Ron Klain were staying as the chief of staff in the White House, that actually would have been the call that they would have made.
That's the kind of move you see. Right. But here, Klain knew he was on his way out.
They knew they wanted to saddle Biden with this problem.
And the basics of crisis communications, even according to David Axelrod, you get to where the crisis is going and the story is going as fast as possible.
And here they sat on it to let the momentum build, to get Biden out there in these interviews saying that Trump was so irresponsible.
And then lo and behold, they're going to try to knock out Trump, knock out Biden.
And you know, Pence is just like a pawn, a casualty in all of this.
I would suggest if Mike Pence wants to run for president, thinks he's the best person for the job, he should not consider this one bit in his deliberations.
If he wants to run, he should run and he shouldn't let this stand in his way.
steve bannon
He shouldn't, even if they're going to put a special counsel on it and maybe indict him?
matt gaetz
Well, look, I mean, the tell on this as to whether or not all of a sudden our nation has used as its organizing principle resolving disputes with the archivist over Presidential Records Act, like if that is the rock upon which we're going to build our church, you'll know it when they go after Obama, and you'll know it when they go after Bush.
Two people who were absolutely aligned with the deep state on a lot of issues, whether it was expanding their capabilities and authorities, continuing to fight their endless wars.
And so Obama and Bush were very much like the prized golden geese of the deep state.
They just kept laying golden eggs.
Yeah. And you know what?
Probably they would have been willing to ride with Biden if they didn't see that he was so addled at this point in his presidency that he likely wouldn't be a very serious candidate and a vast majority of the people in his own party don't even want to run again.
And so I think this is a very dangerous time for our country.
I did not like seeing the abuses of the national security state used against President Trump.
And I think it's it's a bad thing that we have probably lived in our last election Where the national security apparatus doesn't have their thumb on the scale in some way, whether it's for or against particular candidates or even, as you just heard Kerry Cordero talk about, shaping the presidential field.
steve bannon
You think they're this brazen?
Because they believe they're in trouble and they believe we're coming for them?
They've seen what we've done in the House?
They think the Weaponization of Government Investigative Committee, the new church committee, is that dangerous? Because they're making moves now that don't have the subtlety of the past, correct? No. These are pretty in-your-face.
matt gaetz
They are. And when I am with these folks in classified briefings, there is so much moral preening, right?
They are the smart ones.
They are the great protectors.
They are the ones that ensure that the rest of us get to stay safe.
And we're lucky that they're smart enough to seek the authorities to engage in mass surveillance, to then be so bold as to lie about it before Congress, as James Clapper did.
And to accuse President Trump of being a Russian agent, as Eric Swalwell did, as Adam Schiff did when he said they had more than circumstantial evidence, and now to learn that one of the very people involved in the In the investigation into Trump, was himself a Russian agent. Hang on.
steve bannon
The Financial Times, they say it's just sanctions.
This is just something dealing with sanctions.
He's not followed the rules about Russian sanctions.
Of course, he was arrested over the weekend, which we didn't know about.
Another thing that we found about after the work week, he didn't see CNN there for his arrest.
matt gaetz
Yeah, obviously, and one has to wonder whether or not that aligns with the Penn story in some way.
Here's what you need to know about the indictment, and I've gone through it with a first glance, but I'm going to get through it in an even more detailed review.
But yes, in the specific allegations about money laundering and about Conspiracy and about violations of sanctions, there's a real focus on McGonagall's time after he has left the employ of the FBI. But if you go into the general allegations...
steve bannon
Because that's the pitch they're making. Oh, sure.
After the guy was an integral part of the investigation of Trump afterwards, only in 18 and beyond.
matt gaetz
This indictment does so much work to try to cast the corrupt and illegal actions of a former counterintelligence FBI chief to be after his employment.
But there are buried leads in this indictment in the general allegations.
If you go to page seven of the indictment, paragraph 12, you start to see that while McGonigal was working for the federal government, He worked to get an associate of Deripaska's daughter a special internship at the NYPD. So the person he ends up working for later,
taking illegal money from later, he's already getting his future boss's daughter a sweetheart internship at the NYPD and goes and tells the folks at the NYPD he needs this internship for counterintelligence reasons.
steve bannon
How does he, but that in and of itself, how can you possibly do that without reporting that up the chain of command that you're going to make some sort of effort in some sort of contact where you're going to try to do this guy a favor?
matt gaetz
Well, we're going to learn the extent to which that information was transmitted and the extent to which these deals were off the books.
But we know at some point they get off the books because we also have a circumstance laid out in the indictment where McGonigal gets his buddy to set up a shell corporation in New Jersey.
That Shell Corporation later takes money from the Russian oligarch's apparatus to try to manipulate sanctions, to engage in influence.
But here's the tell. The Shell Corporation to do the corrupt acts was set up while McGonagall was still working at the FBI. Oh, that's the biggest tell in the world. That means he was plotting this when he was an active agent.
And if he was plotting it, you have to believe that there was some degree of influence.
Maybe it was not the same degree of influence to get McGonagall to go and do the sanctions work, but what if it was just to redirect some resources and some counterintelligence investigations?
What if it was just to make sure that certain investigations never got opened?
What if it was a way to resolve some investigations on terms that were good for Deripaska or other Russian oligarchs?
You see, this is why the Judiciary Committee has to review this immediately and that this is more important than whatever's in Joe Biden's glove compartment of his convertible because you may have actual threats to national security that exist now because the FBI that was accusing Trump Trump of being a Russian agent was compromised.
Compromised abroad, corrupted at home.
steve bannon
I want to go back to that for a second, but here's what I want to get.
A guy that's sophisticated, they're trying to say he had a small role.
This is not a grunde. Most of the counterintelligence happens in New York, not in D.C., correct?
I mean, that's where the serious...
matt gaetz
New York is one of the counterintelligence nodes of the entire universe.
steve bannon
Geneva and New York City, right?
Okay. How do sophisticated guys not understand that every transaction through the SWIFT system and politically exposed people, etc., they're monitoring nonstop every financial transaction?
How do they, when you read this, part of it's Keystone Cops, right?
How does a sophisticated guy running counterintelligence not know that?
matt gaetz
Well, what you see here is the utilization of friends and family members to create business organizations that then are illegally laundering money.
steve bannon
But arm's length. So you can't directly connect it to him.
matt gaetz
Well, in these cases, some of the dots are connected and you're able to see those corrupt actions manifesting while this person is not just in the employ of the FBI, But as a senior counterintelligence official, already doing favors for these oligarchs, already setting up business organizations that would accept illicit cash.
And there's another feature of the tradecraft here, because everybody watches the war room to build tradecraft and to understand tradecraft.
But right after McGonigal leaves, employee of the FBI, he goes to work for a law firm.
And they start to set up the financial transfers through the law firm, where the law firm would get $150,000 a month, $25,000 would come back to McGonigal.
So this happens every day in Washington, D.C., and New York, how corrupt activity with people connected to the national security apparatus utilize the legal and financial elite to accomplish their objectives.
steve bannon
The law firm is what I call the Democratic Illuminati.
Okay, we're going to take a short break, but when we come back, you say we could have a bigger national security, and as big as the Biden thing is right now, you think Jordan, judiciary, the focus right here has got to be on this immediately, right? Because this shows you may have a compromised FBI. I want the answer.
We're going to take a short commercial break.
Congressman Matt Gaetz, joins us.
Tons of breaking news this afternoon.
We've got Boris next, Jack Posobiec, all of it.
This is an hour that's on fire.
Matt Gaetz is here. We're going to return.
Short commercial break. We'll return back to the war in just a moment.
unidentified
Bring it on and have a fight to the end.
Just watch and see. It's all started.
Everything's begun.
And you are over.
Cause we're taking down the CCP Spread the word all through Hong Kong We will fight till they're all gone We rejoice when there's no more Let's take down the CCP Here's your host, Stephen K. Backman you you Here's what we know as a consequence of this revelation today.
matt gaetz
Our FBI is corrupted by political interests domestically and compromised by foreign interests financially.
That is how you have to evaluate the national security state right now.
And my colleague Dan Bishop had a very good idea that we have to break up the FBI and put FBI agents who are patriotic Americans all over this country not under The spell and the guise of some head shed at the J. Edgar Hoover building, but instead under the jurisdiction of the U.S. Attorneys who are confirmed by the Senate.
steve bannon
Pretty dramatic this morning. Got a lot of attention.
Why is this, because of no coincidences, why is this dropping?
Does this bomb shove at the FBI? Why is this dropping in the middle of a Biden revelation, particularly about Hunter Biden now, the laptop Maybe classified information going to him and Mike Pence.
matt gaetz
I would turn the question to you, Steve.
steve bannon
Why now? Why is it dropped now?
There's something quite fishy about the timing.
They knew they could have dropped this how many months ago?
Oh, yeah. Given what you've read on your first cut at this, they had this information that could have dropped this, you would agree, several months ago.
matt gaetz
This is information that was in a sealed indictment that has now just come unsealed.
steve bannon
This is my point. The sealed indictment, why do you make today when you could have done it when you could have done it otherwise?
Because you're making a case that on a scale from 1 to 10 on your efforts around the national security state, the administrative state, or the deep state, One being, hey, normal course of business, ten being full stop on everything.
matt gaetz
Where does this fall? Well, I think that this is critically important because it showcases that if you ever want real accountability for the real bad guys, It's very difficult to achieve at a time when the Department of Justice and the FBI are subject to foreign influences that are illicit and domestic influences that are abjectly political.
I would view this right alongside Some of the whistleblowers who've come forward to say that information about Hunter Biden was purposefully degraded so as to not allow investigations to advance.
Because, I mean, I got to tell you, in my more than half a decade here in Congress, my biggest revelation in life is that the FBI and Department of Justice aren't always the good guys.
I really believe that.
When I ran for this job and then I saw what they were willing to do because they did not like Donald Trump and they thought it was righteous to fight against the changes that he was bringing as a result of his election to the presidency.
And so whether it's taking information And changing it, as we saw an FBI lawyer do during the Russia hoax, whether it's degrading intelligence information that's bad for the Bidens, or in this case, whether it's literally having a person who is involved in the Trump-Russia hoax.
Later emerge as an agent of the Russian government, it all works together because the biggest question I get when I'm out in the country, folks say, how come nobody ever goes to jail for this?
How come there's no accountability?
We see what they do to conservatives and Republicans.
And the truth is no member of Congress can put handcuffs on anybody.
We can't initiate any criminal charge.
All we can do is use our oversight power to get the truth out and we can use the power of the purse to constrain their authority.
And Nancy Pelosi with a dead hand gave the national security apparatus so much money.
To weaponize their powers against our people.
And so that's why we have to get this information.
steve bannon
I want to go back to this inflection point because even in the troubled history of the FBI with why the Church Commission was set for their aspect of it, the incompetence and overreach for either the civil rights movement, the anti-war movement, what happened during the Kennedy administration, and then later with Hansen.
When Hansen, it came up about the Russian agents.
No one's ever said, you know, domestically there's been problems and not just pressures but overreach and real problems and even in their incompetence in 9-11.
But no one's ever said what you just said, which is a combination of compromise by foreign governments and domestic politics.
That's a lethal combination.
They've never been accused, both of those.
I just want to make sure we go back because this is what they're accusing yourself of.
matt gaetz
I mean, that's no longer a disputed point.
steve bannon
And it's not like they're going to be- Hanson did take money.
I mean, Hanson, which Angleton searched for and never could find.
Hanson was the FBI guy, right?
Aldridge was the CIA. Hanson was the FBI. But even at that time, There was no accusation that the Soviets actually had a deeply embedded or deeply had a deep foreign influence into the FBI overall.
You're saying this is systemic, not just a bad guy.
matt gaetz
I have seen it in the eyes of some of these people that we have questioned in private and in public.
And they believe they ought to be more powerful than all the countries.
They believe that it's up to them to decide, does Russia win today?
Does the United States win?
And when we go as the Congress and give them these exquisite authorities to be able to gather intelligence on people, to be able to make searchable databases, That can be accessed by tens of thousands of these types of folks.
And, like, we're not idiots.
We don't think that they tried this once, it succeeded, and then they never tried it again.
What you're seeing in the McGonagall case is pattern recognition over a great deal of time.
There's been an influence purchasing and an influence peddling operation that the FBI has been highly susceptible to.
This guy wasn't in, you know, the civil enforcement division.
This guy wasn't in the drug division.
This is someone who specialized on Russia, was targeted by Russia, and that's why we're going to be demanding that Chris Wray provide answers as to what we're doing to be more resilient to this.
And I don't think we're doing nearly enough.
steve bannon
You think you use this as a cover ongoing investigation Mr.
matt gaetz
Gates can't talk about it? Well I think that in a lot of ways this indictment shows what they're investigating and what they're not investigating.
And what seems to not be given sufficient focus in this indictment is the time where McGonigal was working for the United States and was in this senior leadership position as a counterintelligence official.
We're really gonna probably leave to the judicial process analyzing McGonigal, you know, 2018 and forward.
But before that, there should be a treasure trove of oversight to do.
And we need to know if we need to change laws regarding how the screening process is initiated, how we monitor the susceptibility of some of these officials to corrupt foreign influence.
steve bannon
The whole story will come out over time, but you on these five days that changed the country, you were the master architect.
matt gaetz
You give me too much credit. There are a lot of folks involved.
steve bannon
No, no, a hero, but I'm saying about thinking it through early on.
So you took on the cartel full on and wouldn't back off, okay?
Now this is the national security, deep state, whatever you want to call it.
You just made a comment at the beginning That they are now actively trying to, if not influence directly the election, mold the field to something that's acceptable to them.
You're talking about a Praetorian Guard that is clearly, according to you, is now out of control and working with or somehow has foreign influence in it.
You've taken on the cartel.
What's your strategy to work with Jim Jordan's others to take this on?
And you have to do it now because 2024 is upon us and these guys are not going to stop.
matt gaetz
Well, one of the things we needed was more resources.
And that's why this special select subcommittee of the Judiciary Committee on the weaponization of the government will have the same or more resources than the January 6th committee had.
That was the specific commitment that we got from Speaker McCarthy during those days that you referenced.
And so, you know, muscling up.
Our investigative effort is certainly a part of it.
But issue spotting is going to be important.
I think that, look, if these documents that Biden had have to do with China, Katie, bar the door.
But if it's like, you know, some briefing he got on some Central African dictator, you know, when he was a senator or vice president.
steve bannon
What about if it revolves around Ukraine?
matt gaetz
Well, if it revolves around Hunter Biden's business activities, then you have a smoking gun for influence peddling and access to information and treason, frankly. You would have a pretty ironclad case for treason in that case for Joe Biden and potentially associates of his and potentially family members of his.
But I don't want to prejudge that, and we don't have any information to suggest that that is true.
I'm hypothesizing the different potential outcome sets here, and if one of the outcome sets is these documents aren't all that relevant in the modern world, then I think that we ought to be far more interested in the infrastructure that owns Joe Biden, that controls Joe Biden and that might be interested in dispensing with Joe Biden.
If we make this all about Joe Biden and they shit-can the guy and we end up with Gavin Newsom, will that have been a good use of our time?
steve bannon
We got played. Real quickly, I know you've been at the lead of this, although you represent one of the most pro-military You've been at the forefront of Ukraine.
We don't have unlimited resources.
Since the five days to change America, one of the big things is either limit the money and or audits.
We've got to know where it's going. Give me your perspective.
We've got about a minute or so. Give me your perspective of what's happened.
All of a sudden, audits and no corruption, zero tolerance from Zelensky.
matt gaetz
Is that a random event? It's so weird that right-as Republicans get in charge and start demanding audits and review of what we've already sent, now Zelensky is an anti-corruption warrior.
Zero tolerance. Zero tolerance, right?
And here's what we know.
Throughout human history, people have improved on corrupt circumstances.
We hope that's the case. But we also know that there are, at times, accusations of corruption to cover up other corruption.
So we should not take this as an article of faith.
And guess what? We have U.S. laws that require us to monitor the end-to-end delivery of U.S. materiel into a war zone.
And I do not believe that we are compliant with those laws.
I believe we have trusted the Ukrainians far too much to make attestations.
And some of those Ukrainians are getting fired now by Zelensky.
So how clownish does our DOD look for trusting them?
steve bannon
And fleeing the country. Real quickly, how do they get to the podcast?
How do they get to all your content and your social media?
matt gaetz
My podcast is called Firebrand.
We're everywhere on the Internet. And I'm at Matt Gaetz and at Rep.
steve bannon
Matt Gaetz. By the way, the podcast is a must-watch, listen-to.
We know everybody in D.C. is doing it.
Congressman, thank you so much, and I've got to tell you, this is explosive.
Look forward to having you back on. I know for your schedule to carve out time to come over here is just fantastic.
matt gaetz
No, good to be here. We've got to get this information out.
steve bannon
Oh no, we're going to push this out.
We had a great show this morning, push it out.
Okay, we've got Boris coming up.
We've got Jack Posobiec going to join us in the 6 o'clock hour.
We've got the Children's Health Defense and we've got Naomi Wolf, everything about the vaccine.
Now it's going to be annual.
You're going to hear all the background to that.
Also, we have Congressman Matt Rosendale is going to join us, one of the Lions, one of the, what is it, the hard six?
The six, the magnificent six that Congressman Gates pulled together.
Okay, short commercial break. We're going to come back.
We've got Boris and Jack Vosovic in the war room.
unidentified
It's all started.
Everything's begun.
And you are over.
Cause we're taking down the CCP!
Spread the word all through Hong Kong We will fight till they're all gone We rejoice when there's no more Let's take down the CCP!
steve bannon
Here's your host, Stephen K. Back you you Okay, welcome back. MyPillow.com, promo code WARROOM. Matt Gage just gave the, what did he say, Mike Pence was softer than a Giza sheet, was a topper, softer than a topper, or Giza sheet on top of it.
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Boris, a lot going on. A couple things.
We got Pence, we got the FBI, and we have this new blowout poll.
For President Trump, and it's not the Harvard poll.
An additional poll has come out.
I want to go first.
Any thoughts on this Mike Pence situation, sir?
boris epshteyn
Steve, honored to be with you.
Very interesting day to day.
President Trump truthing out about Vice President Pence calling him a quote-unquote good man and saying that he should be left alone.
Here's what is interesting about the Pence situation.
What it proves without a doubt is that in terms of White House documents.
The DOJ has no business in being deeply involved.
And it appears that if you look at most presidents and vice presidents, you're going to have some sort of remnants of documents that are remaining when they leave office.
Now, having said that, That doesn't mean that Joe Biden doesn't have major problems, because his problems stem from intent.
Why were the documents kept?
His problems also stem from the kind of documents.
From what we understand, Joe Biden kept literally intelligence, T.S.S.C.I. intelligence.
And then beyond that, the fact that Biden saw documents from the Senate, that is a huge problem, because in no way does the P.R.A. or any applicable law cover senators who have no business taking documents, taking security, Sensitive or classified documents out of the sketch.
steve bannon
By the way, we have to have an answer immediately, too, on this Hunter Biden situation because that was obviously a highly classified briefing that Biden had that Hunter Biden sent to a business associate and then was disseminated broadly.
So we've got to get to the bottom of that.
What about the timing of the FBI? I just had Congressman Gates on here.
This indictment looks like it could have been dropped any time.
It looks like it came off a sealed indictment.
Why has Pence dropped today and why did the FBI drop yesterday, sir?
boris epshteyn
The only thing to understand, surely, is that there's now an attempt by law enforcement to regain some sort of credibility.
And that's why they're dropping on McGoy and on yesterday, the top FBI officials in the New York field office, who literally was the touchstone for the Russia-owned investigation, now arrested for that, colluding with Russia and Russian oligarchs.
Today you've got the information on Pence dropping.
The only way to read it is that there's some sort of an attempt by law enforcement because they've been so ridiculed and so badly crushed to regain some sort of credibility.
But it's frankly not working because what we see now from the way that Biden's been treated, and let's be honest, even from the way that Vice President Pence has been treated, is that they have absolutely been deranged and attacking President Trump That break-in and raid of President Trump's home looks more and more unconstitutional and illegal just the way we put it on August 8th, 2022 when it happened.
President Trump was again right in saying that the DOJ, the FBI, had no business raiding his home, breaking into his home over a doctorate dispute where he said, loud and clear, let us know if there's anything else you need.
steve bannon
Emerson has a poll that just came out.
It's a blowout number.
Trump at 50, what, at 53?
55. DeSantis, 29.
55, DeSantis, 29.
You add up everybody else.
They're not close to Trump combined.
Tell me about that poll, sir.
boris epshteyn
President Trump dominating. President Trump is the leader this country wants.
He presents the toughness this country needs.
And he is the only person to get us back on track.
And American people realize that.
There's no doubt about it. So that poll also polled him versus Joe Biden, a seven-point swing in the president's favor, where he's now leading Biden by three points.
And then beyond that, you look at a Harvard Harris poll just last week, President Trump leading Biden by five, and Kamala Harris by eight.
President Trump is dominating.
The videos are going viral, and the world has been a huge part of that.
His message is cutting through, and that message is of toughness, strength on the border, strength on the economy, strength on national security, and not letting our country be sold down the river.
Beyond that, hey, no two ways about it.
There's a disaster for Joe Biden on the document, and the fact that he and his team absolutely obstructed and absolutely misrepresented is pure and an adulterated mess for Biden, and it shows just how strong President Trump and his team are.
steve bannon
How do people follow you, Boris?
boris epshteyn
Good. Thanks so much. Thanks for having me.
I am hot on the website.
Sign up right now at BorisDP.com.
Hot on BorisDP.com.
Hot on Getter at BorisDP.
On Twitter at BorisDP. Hot on socials at Boris.
Hot on Instagram. Boris underscore website.
Stay strong. God bless.
unidentified
And I'll talk to you tomorrow. Boris, thank you very much.
steve bannon
Let's go to Jack Posovic from Human Events Daily, also the wingman for Charlie Kirk.
Jack, I got to ask you, there's so much breaking news around these investigations.
The executive secretary of Joe Biden, tell me about her.
Tell me about what we know.
She's lawyered up with one of the biggest defense lawyers in town.
We want to make sure we make all these people famous.
She's going to be a major person in this entire drama.
Who is she and why is she important?
jack posobiec
Look, Steve, what we need to understand here, what everyone needs to understand, not only the executive secretary level, but also through the White House at all.
So when I came on here two years ago, I explained that there was a shade war going on between the Kamala Harris faction and the Joe Biden faction.
That has shifted because the rug has been pulled out from under their feet.
The bottom has fallen out of the Biden administration, and the White House has now turned into a battle royale.
The establishment's coming in and now maintaining order.
They're getting rid of the chief of staff.
Ron Klain, gone.
He was the longest serving Joe Biden, true believer.
He's out. Who are they putting in?
They're putting in their buddy from Bain Capital, Jeff Zanes.
So Jeff Zanes is coming in and Bain Capital, just like all these other firms, and you know as well as I do, Steve, they got a couple of guys on the D column and a couple of guys in the R column.
So Mitt Romney's the R. This guy's over on the D side.
He worked with Obama. He worked with Hillary.
He comes in now, and he's going to quote-unquote right the ship.
This is the Uniparty coming in to box out Joe Biden and Kamala Harris of their own administration and clear the decks for the arrival of Gavin Newsom.
steve bannon
When you talk about Shade War, it's now become a battle royale.
Where does the administrative state in the deep state come into this?
Have they chosen a side?
Matt Gaetz thinks that they're trying to form the field right now.
You see this in the Pence situation.
Completely agree. Walk me through your assessment of the deep state.
jack posobiec
Look, we went through this yesterday on Human Events Daily.
I know the congressman has occasionally mentioned that he listens to the show, so I don't know if he was listening to me or he just came to that formulation from his own sources, but that's exactly what I think is going on here.
Steve, understand, the classified document scandals that are going on right now, the reason that you're seeing it happening to people like Trump, like Biden, Hunter Biden's probably going to be wrapped into this, of course.
You got Mike Pence now, but of course, Mike Pence...
I don't even think Mike Pence is his own wife's first choice for a top candidate.
But what you're seeing is the administrative state coming in and reminding the American people who's really in charge.
They're coming in and saying, you're not in charge.
Your leaders aren't in charge.
Your elected leaders aren't in charge.
It's us. We'll tell you who you're allowed to vote for.
steve bannon
You're a former naval intelligence officer.
Given what you've seen in this FBI situation, do you think the FBI, and we didn't even argue this when Hanson was exposed back in the 80s, do you think the FBI has been compromised?
Not just the individual, do you think there may be systemic compromise of the FBI by a foreign government, sir? Steve, you've got this all over Washington, D.C. If you think it's just the FBI, you haven't been paying attention.
jack posobiec
You've got Iranian compromise all over the State Department.
You've got the CCP all over DIA and elements throughout the IC that they've got people in there.
In fact, at one point during the Trump administration, the CCP was recruiting members of the DIA who were part of the hashtag anti-Trump resistance to come and work as CCP agents for them.
So this idea that we've got FBI agents and FBI officials that are double-dipping, I mean, this has been going on for a long time within our United States national security agencies.
That's why the entire thing, and Steve, you and I have talked about this, the whole thing should be uprooted, rod and stern, and you need to go with the full church committee to decide what we are going to do with our national security state because we are supposed to be a country with an intelligence community, not the other way around. Last thing, where's your reporting going on this?
steve bannon
At Human Events Daily and with Charlie Kirk, you guys have been ahead of the curve here.
Where's your reporting going on this?
jack posobiec
Look, where we're going is we're seeing that Joe Biden, they're putting him out to pasture.
Kamala Harris, they're shoving her back in the barn.
They want Gavin Newsom in.
Mike Pence, he's getting kind of like a slap on the wrist.
But of course, Mike Pence sort of self-reported because he's a dork.
And, you know, I wasn't in the room alone with a woman in those classified documents.
No, not me. He'll be in his punishment closet later today.
But Steve, what we need to understand is that there's only one candidate, only one man in American politics that for 35 years has been standing up to the globalists in the establishment of a worldwide global order, and that man is Donald J. Trump.
steve bannon
Jack Posobiec, how do people get to you, the podcast, all your social media?
jack posobiec
What are your coordinates? Yeah, of course, Twitter, Getter, Telegram, at Jack Posobiec.
You can find us there, of course, 10 p.m.
tonight. We're going to be getting into this massive purge throughout Ukraine, all the government officials that are leaving.
Apparently, they found corruption in Ukraine.
steve bannon
Who knew? By the way, Jack, we just had Gates on here.
That's a total random event, right?
MTG, the Republican Party says, hey, we're going to give you any money, but if we do, it has to be audited.
Next thing you know, the Minister of Interior helicopter has a problem.
He's gone. And now all of a sudden, zero tolerance.
jack posobiec
Let's slow down here. This isn't the first time that Biden's had a prosecutor in Ukraine fired that was looking into where the money was going.
That's all I'm going to say about that.
steve bannon
Okay, we'll stay tuned for 10 o'clock tonight on Real America's Voice.
Jack Posobiec, thank you so much for taking time to come on.
Thanks, Steve. The news cycle is absolutely insane.
Let's get Caroline Wren. Caroline, this is a big week in California out of Dana Point.
By the way, are you guys at the Holiday Inn Express out there?
Is the RNC Winter Meetings being held at a Motel 6?
Are you at the Motel 6 conference room, ma'am?
caroline wren
No, and we're actually at the Monarch.
I believe the rate is $900 a night, thanks to you, the donors that support this organization.
We will be spending the next four nights here at one of the most expensive resorts in the country in Gavin Newsom's, California. So what's the lay of the land?
steve bannon
We've got a minute. We're going to take a short break.
You're coming back for the whole next segment.
Give us the lay of the land as you get out there, ma'am.
caroline wren
We feel absolutely the best that we have felt yet coming into this.
There's been an overwhelming number of members, all of which have been on Rana's endorsement letter, who have contacted Harmeet in the past 48 hours and said, I'm actually coming into this meeting now undecided.
I'm coming in with an open mind, and I want to hear the ideas, Harmeet, that you have to lead us forward.
And I think Harmeet's going to have a lot to talk about to that effect.
And I think it's things that Rana does not have a platform of success to stand on, right?
She oversaw the losses in 2018, 2020, and then 2022.
I don't know what convincing closing argument she's going to be able to make.
Harmeet has a lot of great things that she's going to be able to talk to these members about.
And I think coming in here with an open mind is because of you, the grassroots, that contacted these members and said, please listen to us.
We want to change. So we're going into this very, very excited and very much expecting to win.
steve bannon
Okay, hang on a second.
Caroline Wren, who's running the operation for Harmeet Dillon.
We got Mike Lindell's also out there to take a short commercial break.
Caroline Wren, next, in the war room.
unidentified
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steve bannon
Okay, welcome back. Caroline, do us a favor.
Walk through what the process is.
I want the audience to understand that there's things happening that culminate in a vote, maybe multiple rounds on Friday.
But walk us through what exactly happens between now and then.
You said, hey, delegates are telling you they're open to be pitched.
They want to hear ideas.
It's Tuesday night.
We've got all day Wednesday, all day Thursday, and then the vote on Friday.
Walk us through what happens in the next 48 hours.
caroline wren
Right. Sure.
Backing it up, there's 168 people that get to vote on this election, 168 members.
So every state has their party chair plus a national committee man and woman that are elected by the grassroots of their states.
The reason why it's 168, not 150, though, is you have territory.
So Puerto Rico, Guam, America, Samoa, those ones.
So that equals that is who is at this meeting.
That's who votes. All day tomorrow and all day Thursday, they're in different meetings, whether that's the Budget Committee meeting, the Rules Committee meeting, the resolutions.
These meetings actually matter.
These are where things are voted on and the policies that are set forward that are going to help us in 2024.
So these members will be in those, and the vote is Friday morning.
Now, the way it works is you can go to multiple ballots, and it's a majority winner.
And so that's what we're preparing for.
The first vote out the gate is the chair race.
They're voting on four different things.
They're voting for the chair race. I'm sorry, the co-chair, the secretary, and also the treasurer.
And so that on Friday morning, starting at 10 a.m., this is Pacific time, that's when that vote's going to happen.
And that's why we've got, everyone's got their own whip teams.
We have a very strong whip team that is here meeting with different members.
People are undecided. People are on Rana's team and going to make it and lay out the case over the next 48 hours as to why Harmeet Dillon is the right choice to be the chair.
steve bannon
Okay, we talked this 168.
I thought Rana had a letter that went out and had like 115 people's name on it or signed up.
They were all going to be the representatives or delegates of this.
So she therefore already had it locked up.
caroline wren
What's the story with that? So the letter that went out originally was 107, I believe. And really, you know, a couple of these members have said, I put my name on it, I'm sorry, and I've given her my word.
Well, Rana's entire campaign is built on her breaking her word because the word that she gave the members two years ago was that I will not run for re-election.
So if you gave a promise to Rana just recently and said, I'll support your re-election, well, it's built on a broken promise.
And so we have been working our way backwards from that.
And then a lot of the names on there are not actually real ones.
There's been several elections. For example, the name for the Nevada committee woman on Rana's letter is Michelle Fiore.
Michelle is no longer a member of the 168.
In fact, the voting member is Seagal Chata, who we got elected on this show here to go and vote in Datapoint.
And there are lots of ones like that.
The Wisconsin chair, the Ohio chair, and others.
So you work backwards from there.
Otherwise, we also have several members.
You have Laura, who's a national committee woman from Hawaii.
She came out immediately and said, look, I didn't even agree to have my name on this, but I'm not going to be in Rana's letter anymore.
I'm supporting Harmeet Dillon.
Separately, we have people who are coming in and saying, you know, we are nervous to basically take our name off of Rana's letter and come out and endorse you, Harmeet or Mike.
And the reasoning behind it is that there are certain things that are given out.
It's, you know, it's transfers to these states and they have to be worried about.
But at the same time, this is a private issue.
It is a secret ballot.
Secret ballots always end up helping the non-incumbent.
Because there's a lot that they are able to do.
And they can say, fine, Ronna, you know, please stay off my back.
I've endorsed you. But privately, I'm going to go in there and vote for Harmeet because I do think that we need to have change.
And so that is what we're going to be up against and working on this week.
I feel very, very good about it.
More than enough people who have told us that are on Rana's letter, but privately they're coming in either undecided or have made the decision to vote for Harmeet, but are wanting to keep that quiet.
The other part of this is those down-ballot races.
The co-chair, secretary, treasurer, there are things that affect that race as to why they need to remain on Rana's public endorsement list.
So that's another factor that we're seeing going into this.
steve bannon
What is, as you've gone around, because you're kind of leading it, and your whips have gone around, and Harmeet has talked to people, what is, when you're talking to these 168s on one-on-one, what's their biggest concern?
What's their biggest beef? Why would they just not roll the dice with Rana again?
She's a known quantity to these folks.
caroline wren
Yep. All of these people are different, and some of them I find more egregious than others.
For example, the most egregious to me personally is Dave Bossie.
Dave Bossie has been a conservative warrior for years.
He went around for two years telling everyone he was planning to run against Ronna McDaniel because that she was terrible and would list off all the reasons why.
He all of a sudden appeared as an endorsement for Ronna McDaniel.
What he's privately telling people is that he did that at the direction of Donald Trump.
I don't believe that, and if that is true, then I'm very disappointed to hear that because Trump has said many times that he intends to remain public.
I can't imagine why on earth Donald Trump would not want new leadership, especially Harmeet Dillon, who, by the way, has represented him in two cases and won both of them, represented him in the Stormy Daniels case in which he actually got Stormy Daniels' attorneys to pay Donald Trump $500,000.
And then she won the case against the January 6th committee in the separations of powers.
And so why on earth Donald Trump will want more of the same is beyond me?
But someone like Dave, Dave was on the letter that said Kevin McCarthy should not be leader again because we need new change in leadership.
How can Dave Bossie put his name on that letter and not feel the same about this RNC race?
So that one's incredibly frustrating.
You also have the examples like in Florida.
I know you've had Anthony Sabatini on, but the Florida chair, Joe Gruters, has termed out he actually moved the vote in the state So that will be passed this vote and you have the two candidates running who have endorsed Harvey Dillon, but Joe Gruters has said, he said this in the Washington Post, he said it again in a recent article, I don't care what the grassroots think, I don't care what anyone thinks, I am voting for Ronald McDaniel.
steve bannon
Okay, let me go back to Bossy because, you know, I'm very close to Dave, but I want to bring up the point that I think it's political, people reporting that There's a three-man team from Trump's campaign.
I think that the same people are going to be in South Carolina and New Hampshire with him.
The three senior people are going to be out at Dana Point.
And I think they're quasi-whipping.
Am I wrong? And Politico says they're going to be whipping for Ronna McDaniel.
So isn't Dave Bossie right?
caroline wren
He could be right, which to me, that's really upsetting.
I've been around this world long enough that I only believe things when they come out of Donald Trump's mouth.
And the only things that I've heard out of Donald Trump's mouth is that I'm staying out of this.
Let them work it out. I think both are very impressive, and I like both of them.
So what is happening behind the scenes with different consultants to me is not sure that is happening and they can represent however they want.
But to me, I like to hear from Donald Trump's mouth where he feels on this.
And all he has said is that he remains neutral.
And I actually think that's the right thing to do.
The RNC chair should be neutral.
We have 2024 primaries.
It's in the bylaws. So I don't think it's smart for Donald Trump to endorse.
But I do think it's troublesome that they have different, I guess...
If they're representing themselves as Donald Trump's representatives and then calling people and telling them to vote one way, then that is certainly whipping on behalf of Ronna McDaniel.
But the buck stops with Dave Bossie.
We've seen this before.
Steve, we have seen this forever, that the people that surround themselves around Trump and give bad advice.
So if you're Dave Bossie and you were told by this you should vote for Ronna, his advice should have been, Mr.
President, absolutely not.
That is the worst thing for you.
Your base is against it, and I will not do it, and I'm not going to let you fall in that trap either.
steve bannon
Caroline, we've got to bounce.
We'll get your social media up.
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