April 16, 2022 - Bannon's War Room
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♪♪ | |
| It's Saturday, 16 April, Year of the Lord 2022, and this is our special Descent into Hell. | ||
| We've got Jack Posobiec has joined us in studio. | ||
| We have Joe Allen on and we are hopefully going to get Dr. Taylor Marshall A little later in the broadcast. | ||
| But I want to thank everybody. | ||
| This is the, I think the most somber day, I guess maybe Good Friday is, but Holy Saturday, the most somber day in the calendar of the Catholic and Christian faith. | ||
| And I want to thank, a lot of people don't know, Joe Allen has a master's degree in theology, actually, from Boston University, where Dr. Martin Luther King Matriculated. | ||
| And this is one of the reasons that Joe is our expert in transhumanism and has really been, I think, and the reason I want to have him on the special today, our modern descent into hell, which is transhumanism. | ||
| We're going to get into all that. | ||
| I want to say, Pasoabic, I thank you, particularly coming over and doing specials as busy as you are. | ||
| But of course, in the warm, I've always got my stack of books, the stuff I'm going through. | ||
| And I've got to say, I get in here and Basobagos is giving me grief. | ||
| I'm reading the Northern Crusades. | ||
| You're reading Teutonic propaganda, throwing it in my face. | ||
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You knew I was coming over today. | |
| You put it right by the mic. | ||
| The Teutonic Knights did not have a Northern Crusade? | ||
| Teutonic propaganda. | ||
| No, it was an invasion of Polish and Slavic lands that had already been converted, but they did not yet pay homage. | ||
| Homage means coin. | ||
| To pay the coin, right, to the throne of the Holy Roman Emperor. | ||
| And so that's what led to the Battle of Grunwald, which, by the way, the Teutonic Knights did not fare so well. | ||
| Did not win. | ||
| Let's say it was not a victory. | ||
| This is one of the things I want to talk about and then go back to the into the scripture and to things like Catherine Ann Emmerich and other things. | ||
| And Joe, I'll bring you in for this, but I said this on the show the other day. | ||
| As you read the trials and tribulations of Christ in the last four or five days, you know, from Palm Sunday all the way through the last week, if you even leave the spirituality aside and the religious context aside, you just look at the politics of it between the Roman governors and Herod and Caiaphas and the chief priests, the religious leaders and the rabbis and the crowd and just all that turmoil in a very small microcosm. | ||
| And the way the authorities are able to swing the crowd. | ||
| The same crowd that just one week prior, essentially, welcomed Christ. | ||
| Talk about that. | ||
| I was saying in the context of the Ukraine of how it's always of the moment, right? | ||
| Things really haven't changed. | ||
| It's the passion of the crowd. | ||
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Right? | |
| And I think that when you look at the Bible, and as you say, take out the spiritual element, you can also view it as a study in human nature. | ||
| Because we are given so many examples of flawed humans all the way through the text. | ||
| Whether you go all the way back to David himself, to Solomon, and then all the way up to St. | ||
| Paul. | ||
| Right? | ||
| And so in this case, it gives us a character study of essentially a crowd, right? | ||
| So it's the same crowd, the same crowd of Jerusalem, that one week prior is chanting, Hosanna, Hosanna, right? | ||
| Save us, Hosanna in excelsis, as Christ comes in riding on Palm Sunday, lined with palms and banners of celebration. | ||
| And then the same crowd because, you know, someone is agitating them. | ||
| Going into the crowd. | ||
| Some people say there was money changing hands and things like this. | ||
| Whispering into ears. | ||
| Crucify him! | ||
| Which, by the way, is where we actually get the word excruciating from. | ||
| So, excrucis. | ||
| So the word in Latin, crucis, is the word cross in Latin. | ||
| So it just means to be on the cross. | ||
| The word excruciating Because the pain of the cross was so great The pain of the cross was so powerful that we actually had to create an entirely new word Just to describe what that was and that is the word excruciating to be on the cross And so they were able to tell this crowd this that this man is a liar. | ||
| He is a blasphemer He is someone who's come to To usurp us, to overthrow us, and then, you know, then you go to the Romans, and at first, Pilate, you know, of course, you know the story, doesn't want to get involved, but because the fervor of the powers that be, right? | ||
| The powers that be, the establishment of the time, if you will, want him gone, because they don't want this rabble-rouser in there. | ||
| They don't want someone in there who's questioning their theological authority, questioning their narrative, right? | ||
| They don't want that. | ||
| And so, they say, crucify him, crucify him, and because they have a religious order, religious law, in parallel with the civil law at the time, which is something that we don't really have now. | ||
| They do have parts of the Middle East right now, but we don't have that in the West. | ||
| We have civil law that's supposedly based on a moral code, supposed to be based in the Bible itself, but that's another discussion. | ||
| Then they hand him over for breaking those religious laws. | ||
| Joe Allen, I want to bring you in here. | ||
| The political authority, Pontius Pilate, had the famous phrase that's kind of resonated down through history to Christ, what is truth? | ||
| What does that tell you? | ||
| You've studied this many years before you came and started. | ||
| In fact, your focus on transhumanism came from your interest in comparative theology. | ||
| Tell us about Pontius Pilate and what is truth. | ||
| You know, if I can depart from that question and go to another that Pilate asked Jesus, when he's being accused of insurrection by claiming to be the king of the Jews, and Pilate accuses him, and if I recall correctly, the actual scripture, he asked Jesus, are you the king of the Jews? | ||
| And he says, you have said so. | ||
| And, aside from a number of hints in, especially Mark, but other sections of the Gospel, Jesus doesn't explicitly talk much about who He is, who His identity is, the identity that people have attributed to Him for the last 2,000 years. | ||
| He's quite mysterious, and I think that That mystery has allowed for an extraordinarily vibrant religious tradition. | ||
| So, when you look at Pilate and his relationship to Jesus, Pilate is completely clueless as to who this man is. | ||
| And I think that, by and large, that's continued on to this day. | ||
| The powers that be, the highest earthly powers, are almost down to a man completely unaware, completely blind to the real value or divinity that exists in humanity below them. So that may be a long way of saying I think that that symbol, that symbolic narrative of, you know, a man who is completely innocent and righteous being | ||
| being completely misunderstood and in some sense exploited by the powers above him. | ||
| That's a perennial story, going back that many thousands of years before Jesus and continuing on to our time. | ||
| And when we talk about technology and the enormous power that it gives those powerful people over us, you know, it's astonishing despite all of the windows they have into our lives, they've consistently misunderstood and misinterpreted who we are. | ||
| And I think that that probably will continue on until the end of time, to be honest. | ||
| What do you mean they've misunderstood or misinterpreted? | ||
| What do you mean by that? | ||
| I mean to say that, especially the regime prevailing over us now, but there are really no good exceptions before, they completely misinterpret human nature. | ||
| They believe, for instance, the current regime believes that human nature is so plastic that you can take a small child and undo their sexual programming and paint onto it whatever you like, or whatever that child at the moment wants. | ||
| We have a regime that completely ignores and pretends that the sorts of in-group preferences that are natural among human beings simply don't exist or can be rewritten. | ||
| They also, by and large, if you see how profane their declarations are, I don't think they really understand the public sense of the sacred. | ||
| Whenever they have invaded Our space or whenever they've trampled on our sense of the sacred, they always seem so oblivious as to why there's such a strong reaction. | ||
| And so I think that, you know, power blinds people. | ||
| I hate to use the word, but privilege blinds people and wealth blinds people. | ||
| And I think that's just a perennial problem. | ||
| What you're discussing right there, that goes back to Foucault, right? | ||
| You hear this constantly from the... Explain who Foucault is, to Critical Theory. | ||
| Of Critical Theory. | ||
| So he's, I mean, essentially the grandfather of Critical Theory. | ||
| French. | ||
| Yeah, the French grandfather of all Critical Theory, who believed that reality was the creation of institutions, man-made institutions, and that our experiences in reality are simply that Which are created by institutions and then imposed upon us. | ||
| That's essentially what you're describing, this plasticity. | ||
| This is part of the birth of the post-modernist movement. | ||
| That's where we get this idea that reality is not some finite thing, but that it's pick-and-choose reality. | ||
| If reality is imposed upon us by man-made human institutions, well then reality then becomes thus subjective, it's not objective, and then morality also becomes subjective, not objective, and Foucault's morality is another thing that you could certainly get into. | ||
| Well no, but that's a highfalutin French intellectual's way of just saying, it's just Aleister Crowley's, do what thou wilt, right? | ||
| It's a much more sophisticated... It's actually an occult... It actually derives from the occult idea of, this is the Garden of Earthly Pleasures. | ||
| Joe Allen. | ||
| You know, I heard this folk song last night, I listened to the folk music late at night, and the lyrics were... | ||
| There's a law of nature, the law of man, and the law of God. | ||
| And I think that the entire post-modernist movement has swept aside the laws of nature and had long swept aside the laws of God, the divine laws that order everything even above the laws of nature. | ||
| And it's like many movements that attract fervent followings. | ||
| Postmodernism, Foucault, the entire liberal movement that's infected with it now, all of it is, you know, it's mono-focused, right? | ||
| They can only see this very narrow set of parameters. | ||
| So, when a woman is saying, I don't want other women to be able to kill their own children because of a divine law that exists above the current laws of man, or really the laws of nature, people on the left, they just simply don't understand. | ||
| They don't understand why the sense of the sacred would drive someone to oppose such a thing, but it's not going anywhere. | ||
| That sense of conscience, that sense of divinity is not going anywhere. | ||
| Let me take it out of the abstract here. | ||
| Right, let me take it out of the abstract here. | ||
| Didn't this same question of morality just come up for us in the confirmation hearings of Ketanji Brown-Jackson? | ||
| Because when we were asked these questions about these cases on child pornography, right? | ||
| What I think all of the quote-unquote fact-checkers and the people who, you know, were going after everybody to defend her missed was that we weren't making a factual argument about, you know, how many images and what was the procurement, what was the method. | ||
| The facts weren't in dispute. | ||
| What was in dispute was the morality. | ||
| What was the moral question and where did the moral standard lie? | ||
| So critical theorists Um, deriving from Foucault, but then also you get Marx and Engels involved. | ||
| And Marx and Engels came up and said, well actually, it's not just the institutions because you've got two classes as well. | ||
| You've got one class that controls the institutions, and the other class that is controlled by the institutions. | ||
| So you split up into your classic oppressor versus oppressed. | ||
| And then if someone is of the oppressed class, Then morality should be lighter on them than if they are of the oppressor class. | ||
| That's where you get the morality of a Katonji Brown Jackson. | ||
| It is Holy Saturday. | ||
| This is the War Room Special, Dissent in the Hell I Have, Jack Posobiec from Human Events, and our editor of all things transhumanism, Joe Allen. | ||
| We're going to take a short break. | ||
| We're going to talk about, we've got to get to Katherine and Emmerich. | ||
| Talk about Mel Gibson's film that's going to come out in a couple of years. | ||
| Talk about Thomas Aquinas. | ||
| Christ, a journey to the netherworld, to hell. | ||
| Was it for suffering or is it victory? | ||
| Talk about all that plus modernism and post-modernism. | ||
| All next in our special edition descent into hell in the world. | ||
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So, | |
| ♪♪ | ||
| Welcome back. | ||
| It's the War Room Special, Descent into Hell. | ||
| I've got Joe Allen, our editor, and of course, Jack Posobiec, the great Jack Posobiec, is with us from Human Events and his podcast. | ||
| Before we go, we're going to get into the details of Descent into Hell and how it's portrayed, portrayed in visions like Catherine and Emmerich in film, in the actual, the Gospels themselves. | ||
| St. | ||
| Catherine and Emmerich. | ||
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St. | |
| Catherine and Emmerich. | ||
| But I want to go back, because we talk a lot on the show. | ||
| And every day when we're pounding it out about this spiritual war, we have people come on and talk about the spiritual war. | ||
| And that's the Judeo-Christian West and the tenets of the Judeo-Christian West. | ||
| But, you know, Taylor Marshall's book, and Taylor's a convert, right? | ||
| Comes from, I think he's Anglican? | ||
| He was originally an Anglican priest, and then converted, ended up converting, yeah, and then wrote his book, essentially, Infiltration, the Plot to Destroy the Church from Within, and what he talks about, specifically focusing on, and he goes back all the way to the 1950s, even prior to that wave of, sort of, you know, even gets into So Vatican II, of course, plays a huge role. | ||
| That's almost the, you know, your great culmination of the climax of the book. | ||
| But he's on Fulton Sheen and everything. | ||
| Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| He's timing his plot. | ||
| So he takes it all the way back to understanding what was the corruption. | ||
| He goes to the doctrine. | ||
| It's chapter and verse. | ||
| He gets into the changes in canon law. | ||
| It's an amazing book. | ||
| It's incredible. | ||
| Even if you're not a Catholic and a Protestant, just about the Christian faith. | ||
| Well, if you want to understand this as an institution in our world, But here's the point I want to get into right now, and we'll bring in Joe Allen here also, is that Joe Allen just talked about, we talked about post-modernism, the thinkers of the existential thinkers in France and intelligentsia. | ||
| Much of what? | ||
| Transhumanism that this this hurtling towards a post homo sapien Environment is a lot of postmodern Philosophy and theory and back of it then that's the New Babylon New Babylon, but then you have Taylor Marshall that he goes back and says hey don't worry Before you get to the postmodernist you got to deal with modernity, right? | ||
| I remember the church used to have an oath against modernity this this we were warned that About this by many of the best thought leaders of the 17th, 18th and 19th century about this thing called modernity. | ||
| They foresaw Auschwitz. | ||
| They foresaw where Nietzsche and the will to power and all that goes. | ||
| And that ties back to exactly what you're seeing. | ||
| Beijing today that's it ties back to exactly what you're seeing in Shanghai today this ties back to when you see those images So Ukraine soldier needs and soldier needs and had a quote towards the end of his life When he was in some interview and they asked him You know if you had the summit all up right everything your whole writings the Gulag archipelago. So the great Russian dissident victim of communism was locked in the Gulags himself Nobel Prize Nobel Prize winner went to went to Harvard and called them out and | ||
| in the 1970s. | ||
| Came to the United States and when he got here, he was not impressed. | ||
| Ripped the West a new one. | ||
| Was not impressed. | ||
| Which is not what they were expecting when they booked him for the commencement of Harvard. | ||
| That he came up and he said if I had to sum it all up where it went wrong. | ||
| He said we forgot God We forgot God and that if you take away that essential element and all that's left is the Nietzschean will to power That's where you get these other ideologies this extreme ideologies whether it be fascism whether it be communism Bolshevism obviously is what he experienced that That is where it comes from you take away the essential element from the core and every and all you have left is | ||
| Human nature and that's why the Bible exposes us Chapter after chapter after chapter from the Garden of Eden on right the very first first page of book one right in It's the Garden of Eden, and it's the Fall. | ||
| And it shows male-female relations, it shows Eve, it shows Adam, you have the serpent, right? | ||
| It shows that man, essentially from the start, has this flawed sinful nature. | ||
| And that's the issue. | ||
| Joe Allen. | ||
| You know, so I have studied religion and philosophy all my life, but I am oftentimes uncomfortable Speaking about religion from the perspective I hold, because I think it does kind of step on the toes of certain traditions, but in some sense, I think even the modernist point of view is held fast to a nature beyond the laws of people or power struggles. | ||
| You know, from Darwin onward, Human beings are seen as essentially flawed, essentially fallen, instinctively possessive, instinctively territorial, instinctively violent. | ||
| And modernism, however much it battered traditionalism in society, which it has, and I think it's been ultimately destructive, modernism is still held fast. | ||
| To that notion of fallen humanity. | ||
| The story of the Garden of Eden makes perfect sense, of Cain and Abel makes perfect sense, in light of evolution. | ||
| Where the real danger now comes in, I think, is in that postmodernist twist Before you get to post-modernism, how do you say that the modernists support that? | ||
| Because he would call it devolution, not evolution, if that was the case. | ||
| Would it not, sir? | ||
| I mean, it depends on who you're talking about, but I think that a lot of modernist thinkers that still, you know, hold to the notion that human nature is basically unswerving, then you still have sex roles, defined sex roles that make sense in society. | ||
| You still have power structures, hierarchies. | ||
| that makes sense in society. And also just the, you know, the reality of human weakness still makes sense, both in the traditionalist point of view and in the modernist sort of evolutionary point of view. But, you know, it's like I say, it may not be complete, and I really don't think I think that without that sort of sublime, traditionalist perspective, modernism is completely empty. | ||
| It's just atoms in the void. | ||
| Well, then we see this as well here in government, when you have the rise, not only in the philosophy of modernism, but here in the U.S., you had people like Woodrow Wilson in the early 1900s describing essentially what he called social Darwinism. | ||
| And so through Social Darwinism, which he absolutely believed in, he came up with these new ideas that, you know, the Founding Fathers, well, you know, they didn't have these kind of ideas back then, they didn't exist, Darwin hadn't gone, you know, the Beagle hadn't gone on its voyage yet, and so therefore our founding documents themselves Are based on just some hokey mumbo jumbo kind of notions, you know, like Isaac Newton and his silly alchemy. | ||
| And we need to create a new form of government that empowers a new form of a state, an organic, permanent state that's situated within Washington, DC, that has no connection whatsoever to the will of the people or the electoral process and is not bound by law. | ||
| This all actually goes back to the same place. | ||
| These are Nietzschean ideas. | ||
| This is social Darwinism through government. | ||
| And that's where you can go. | ||
| And I love to talk the abstract as well. | ||
| But for the audience, I like to bring it back, because this is how you can get a guy like a Dr. Fauci, right, who's setting policy, a guy who's never been elected, who's never stood for an election for his life. | ||
| He hasn't even run for dog catcher. | ||
| Yet he's able to dictate what our policy is going to be in a schoolhouse in rural Tennessee. | ||
| And the people there have no ability to countermand his orders. | ||
| These ideas, when put into practice, are very dangerous. | ||
| And I think the American people When the lockdowns came on, and when we see what's going on in Shanghai right now, we know they come from the same philosophical and moral tradition. | ||
| This idea that power can be wielded by whoever is able to wield it, and that power should be used whenever possible, and that there should be no limits to power whatsoever. | ||
| Because essentially, that's what morality is. | ||
| A limit to human power. | ||
| Is that what the church was arguing in the 19th century when they said they had an oath against modernity? | ||
| Is that what they feared? | ||
| Is that modernity was going to basically be amoral? | ||
| Is it going to be about the will to power? | ||
| Well, and you had Fulton Sheen, right? | ||
| And he was sort of the last in the line of all of that. | ||
| He was the last traditionalist and he was out there railing against this day. | ||
| And it was the number one show in America, right? | ||
| Which they'd never show today. | ||
| Bigger than Milton Berle. | ||
| He's huge, huge. | ||
| He's out there every day in the full cape, right? | ||
| Teaching Baltimore Catechism. | ||
| With the chalkboard and everything, explaining that we are moving into a material materialist-based society that has no basis whatsoever in morality. | ||
| And you can see him, he calls every single shot of things that happened decades after his death. | ||
| And yet he got everything exactly right, that we are moving away from the traditional American, traditional Western society. | ||
| Remember, they didn't ask his opinion. | ||
| Yeah, go ahead, Joe. | ||
| We got a minute. | ||
| Go ahead. | ||
| Yeah, you know, speaking of Woodrow Wilson, with the expansion of federal powers under his administration and even just his background as a college professor, I think he really, really put a stamp on American culture from a technocratic angle. | ||
| He certainly believed in rule by experts and rule by scientists. | ||
| And I think it was profoundly damaging. | ||
| By the way, these are all very German ideas. | ||
| Very, very German ideas. | ||
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Going back to your Teutonic Knights there. | |
| I triggered my Polish faith. | ||
| What do you mean crusades? | ||
| What do you call these crusades? | ||
| Look, the Germans are fantastic engineers, right? | ||
| The best cars, the best planes, alright? | ||
| But when they start applying that engineering mindset to people, that's always a little tricky. | ||
| Okay, short commercial break. | ||
| Descent into Hell. | ||
| We're going to return with Joe Allen, Jack Posobiec, Your host Stephen K. Bennett will be back in a moment. | ||
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The joy of man's desiring, Holy vision of the host's bright. | |
| Okay, welcome back. | ||
| You're in the War Room. | ||
| Make sure you go to MyPillow.com and support our sponsor, Mike Lindell and the great team up in Minneapolis. | ||
| Go there today, check out the square. | ||
| Before we go, a lot of people, Jack, I don't think understand that The Passion of the Christ, which is, I believe, the most profitable film In the history of the entertainment business, and clearly one of the most popular, was based upon, the script was based upon, St. | ||
| Catherine and Emmerich's vision. | ||
| She was a German nun. | ||
| We're going to get into that in the new movie that's coming out in 2024, I think it's going to come out. | ||
| Well, that's what's currently, so Gibson, of course, when it comes to his films, you know, it's always sort of, it exists when it exists, right? | ||
| So it all, it exists for Gibson, but then it's on paper. | ||
| But, You know, we saw it just, I think it was about a week or two ago, where IMDB, actually the Internet Movie Database, did post Passion of the Christ Resurrection with a release date of April 2024, so 20 years after the original. | ||
| Easter, basically. | ||
| Come out on Easter, of course. | ||
| And then with Jim Caviezel, and it says a Mel Gibson film. | ||
| And so Gibson has talked about this over the years, about how he wanted to do it, because Originally, they were thinking to do a film based on, you know, so take the end of the gospel and then the Acts of the Apostles, right? | ||
| And so, the thing is though, the Acts of the Apostles, that takes place over weeks, right? | ||
| So it's weeks and weeks, and he's making these appearances, he's doing the meetings, and when you're doing a film, and you know, I'm kind of stealing Taylor Marshall's analysis right here, but I'm just gonna do it. | ||
| It's an homage. | ||
| It's an homage. | ||
| So he pointed out that when you're doing a film, you need that narrative driving action. | ||
| You didn't want to do a documentary. | ||
| You don't want to do a documentary. | ||
| So with The Passion of the Christ, some people criticized it for it, but other people love it because it really just focuses on the crucifixion. | ||
| It doesn't even go Far beyond that whatsoever. | ||
| So what Gibson said is he was wrestling with this. | ||
| How do I make a film, right? | ||
| And not do it in, you know, the way with, you know, have them all speaking with British accents or high lilted voices or anything. | ||
| No. | ||
| Aramaic, Latin, Greek, and that's the street Greek, you know, not the, again, not the highfalutin stuff. | ||
| How do you do that on film, and have it be for two hours, and have it be compelling enough for people to sit there, but also tell the story in a truthful way? | ||
| And what he came to, and he said in this one interview, that's a little cop out who he had it with, And Caviezel was talking about it too, and they said, I want to focus on the three days. | ||
| I want to focus on what happened between the cross and the tomb. | ||
| Right? | ||
| Between the cross and the tomb. | ||
| We know what happened to Christ's body in that time, but what happened to Christ's soul? | ||
| And actually depict that on film as a Hollywood blockbuster, right? | ||
| And they just did this Father, they have this Father Stu film coming out now with Wahlberg. | ||
| Wahlberg self-funded that. | ||
| Because Hollywood wouldn't make it. | ||
| He's an extremely devout Catholic. | ||
| He wanted to make an extremely Christian and Catholic film. | ||
| They wouldn't do it. | ||
| He's talking about leaving Hollywood now, so Wahlberg's money might be involved in this thing as well, if they end up doing it. | ||
| And he brings Gibson in, of course. | ||
| Gibson, who's sort of in this semi-cancelled state in Hollywood. | ||
| Semi-cancelled? | ||
| I think he's semi-cancelled. | ||
| It's this weird kind of cancellation, where he's still making films, but it's not the way it used to be. | ||
| They're not throwing money at him the way it used to be. | ||
| And so, what he says is, he wants to depict the three days where Christ descends into hell. | ||
| And in Summa Theologica, Aquinas breaks down the four abodes of hell. | ||
| And he breaks down that this was the victory of Christ entering that highest layer. | ||
| The limbus, right? | ||
| So the limbo of the fathers and the limbo of the children, where the people of the Old Testament, where the Old Testament fathers are, waiting to be taken into heaven. | ||
| The prophets. | ||
| So that's where your prophets are. | ||
| That's where Elijah is. | ||
| That's where Moses is. | ||
| That's where Noah is, right? | ||
| They're waiting for Christ to come to open the keys to the kingdom. | ||
| So Satan, he's down in Gehenna. | ||
| He's all the way down. | ||
| That's the fire. | ||
| That's in fairness. | ||
| What are the four levels? | ||
| So you have the The Limbo of the Fathers, the Limbo of the Children, Purgatory, and then Gehenna itself, right? | ||
| And Gehenna goes even back to the Old Testament. | ||
| And so, when you're looking at the situation, this becomes the big debate over did Christ go to Gehenna, or did Christ go to Limbus, and was it a victory? | ||
| Was He leading the Fathers Well, the heresy... I shouldn't say the heresy, because it's quite controversial. | ||
| Not all Christians... I'm okay with calling it a heresy. | ||
| Well, not all Christians believe that there was a descent into hell. | ||
| Remember, this is the whole thing, I think, with the Nicene Creed. | ||
| So the Nicene Creed takes it out. | ||
| The Apostles' Creed says Christ descended into hell. | ||
| The Nicene Creed takes it out. | ||
| Let me go back to Mel Gibson just for a second, because I know the production team there... But point being, this has been a controversial element of Christianity all the way back to day one. | ||
| Well, in fact, if you go to The Passion of the Christ, he gives credit To predicating a lot of the script in the detail of the script because let's remember the film initially. | ||
| Was going to be x-rated for violence, okay? | ||
| Because it was so realistic. | ||
| People say it's hyper-realistic. | ||
| I think it's... I think you've got an R rating for the simple reason... It is R, yeah. | ||
| Well, they had to get it into Walmart, and Walmart, I don't believe at the time, could take unrated because they're going to try to go unrated. | ||
| Right. | ||
| So there's a big controversy about taking the violence. | ||
| And he admits they predicated much of the details. | ||
| We still had some semblance of a moral structure at that point, 20 years ago. | ||
| Right, there was some... the movie rating system was the last, the very last vestige of a moral core in society, and even now at that point it's been... Where's the Hays office when you... Yeah, exactly, right? | ||
| People forget... Go back to the code days! | ||
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Let's do it! | |
| People forget that Gone with the Wind took Selznick months of negotiations to get the word damn into the final scene of when the Hays officer... | ||
| Katharine Emmerich was a young German woman who had gone to a convent and had a series of visions and actually wrote them down. | ||
| So right around 1815 to 1819. | ||
| 19th century, early 19th, early to mid 19th century in Germany. | ||
| And in fact they had a, I don't know, church council, but they had an investigation of it. | ||
| She wrote and she took these and put them into four volumes. | ||
| Of, I think, The Life of Mary and The Life of Christ. | ||
| I think The Life of Christ is three or four volumes, The Life of Mary is a volume, and she had some others, too. | ||
| And Mel Gibson and the team actually give credit that a lot of the details they got were from Katharine and Emmerich's, the visions of Katharine and Emmerich. | ||
| I remember McAvee told me one time that Mel wanted to be so realistic in this that they're sitting there looking at the Daily Rushes, and of course, remember, everybody had walked away from financing this film. | ||
| In fact, the last guy was the guy that did Thomas Aquinas College, the one from, the guy from Detroit, the billionaire, Domino's Pizza guy. | ||
| Oh, Avi Maria. | ||
| Ave Maria. | ||
| He did it first in Michigan, then took it down to Florida. | ||
| Monaghan. | ||
| I think Tom Monaghan. | ||
| He was going to finance it, and then he had some ideas about the script. | ||
| He had some observations on the script, and Mel said, the script's the script. | ||
| Steve told me one time, they're sitting there looking at the Daily Rushes, at the dailies, and how powerful Because they went back to basics. | ||
| He didn't want to make something with people in British accents. | ||
| I mean, they cast stage actors. | ||
| Imagine pitching that. | ||
| You're telling people, oh, and it's not, oh, and all this, and it's not even in English. | ||
| Well, it's not just not in English. | ||
| It's going to be in Aramaic, which is essentially a dead language. | ||
| Dead language. | ||
| And you're hiring, you know, scholars to come in and teach the actors. | ||
| So he's watching the dailies and he's sitting there and he goes, Wow, he's very moved because, and he is the producer, but when you actually see it that night, when you look at the dailies, what you've done, he's very moved by it, and he's sitting next to Mel, and he goes, he says, wow, he says, I really think we've got something here that's going to be, think of how powerful it's going to be for the audience when we put the subtitles in. | ||
| And Mel turns to him and says, what are you talking about? | ||
| Because there's a whole data, normally you either dub these films for a broader release, and he goes, we put the subtitles in. | ||
| Mel goes, what subtitles? | ||
| And Mel basically says, well the people know the story, so you're not going to need subtitles. | ||
| And McAvee goes, I'm not so sure everybody knows the story in that level of detail. | ||
| And Mel, I think eventually when they released it, but he was adamant. | ||
| He was adamant. | ||
| He didn't want him. | ||
| He didn't want him. | ||
| He said, hey, people know the story. | ||
| If they don't know the story, they ought to go back and read it. | ||
| They ought to figure it out. | ||
| Go see it, then go back and read it. | ||
| He's hardcore. | ||
| He's the head of a contest. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Well, he's got his own people. | ||
| He's got his own church. | ||
| His own church on the, I mean, his father. | ||
| He's one of the people that don't, how do I say this politely, don't believe in Vatican II. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Well, even more than that. | ||
| Well, Vatican II is like the pinnacle of what they don't believe. | ||
| Right, but they don't recognize any Pope after, I think it's 59? | ||
| No, is it Pius XII? | ||
| Right. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Is it Pius X or XII? | ||
| I have to look. | ||
| I want to make sure. | ||
| But let's say back, they go to the 19th century. | ||
| They think all the rest of them are not quite in the succession of Peter, right? | ||
| So Sede Vakontas is Sede, seat, vacant. | ||
| The seat is vacant. | ||
| She wrote a very descriptive, also, about the descent into hell. | ||
| She actually wrote this scene from a vision. | ||
| And remember, the church did have a, it wasn't a council, but they had an informal investigation into about these visions. | ||
| And in fact, the books, I actually got the stamp. | ||
| And so they actually, they had the investigation, but when she was beatified in 2004, one of the last canonizations of John Paul II, Saint John Paul II, that her beatification was not done on the basis of the visions, but on the basis of her life. | ||
| And so they kind of, the church kind of took this sort of, well we're going to beatify her. | ||
| That's tippy-toeing around her. | ||
| They were tippy-toeing around her. | ||
| Without the visions, I don't know if you're focused on the life. | ||
| So they give her the sainthood, but they go around the visions to do it. | ||
| You've had a chance to read this. | ||
| How powerful are they to you? | ||
| And I want to make sure the audience, if you get a chance, I think it's Tan is the publisher, which is a publisher of a lot of very conservative Catholic books. | ||
|
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Right. | |
| So when you look into this and, you know, whether you're talking about, you know, Padre Pio or anyone who is affected by the stigmata, obviously you have to come to it from a place of of deep reverence and trying to understand that this is someone who is a faithful believer. | ||
| I love the Lee Strobel books, for example. | ||
| He comes to Christ as a skeptic. | ||
| He's a courtroom reporter and he makes the case for Christ. | ||
| How would you prove this in court? | ||
| He does the same thing. | ||
| He's got a new one coming out, the case for heaven. | ||
| Could you get him on, by the way? | ||
| I do have this analytical mind, and I want to look at it and understand it from that point. | ||
| Even if you're looking at it from that perspective, you have to understand this is a deeply devout person, someone who's given her entire life to God. | ||
| She only spoke in the low German, so they had to have a translator in there with them, and they're making the notes, and they can't even do the notes properly because she speaks low German, but the investigator only just spoke your classic high German. | ||
| And so, what it depicts is, essentially, it's called The Harrowing of Hell. | ||
|
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Why don't we hold that? | |
| We're going to hold that for the next... The Harrowing. | ||
| We're going to hold that for the next segment, The Harrowing of Hell. | ||
| We've also got our own Joe Allen. | ||
| He still owes me about postmodernism, which is the underlying... Not off the hook yet, Joe. | ||
| Not off the hook yet, Joe. | ||
| He's still got to work. | ||
| I want to thank you, Ray. | ||
| I want to thank Real America's Voice, the entire team here, our team in Denver, And our production team here has helped us put together this special. | ||
| Descent into Hell, the special on the War Room. | ||
| We're going to take a short commercial break. | ||
| We'll be back in a moment. | ||
|
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| Okay, welcome back. | ||
| Okay, welcome back. | ||
| Of course, our ever-vigilant audience, Jack Posobiec. | ||
| She's actually not a saint. | ||
| She's beatified, correct? | ||
|
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Blessed. | |
| Blessed. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Blame it on that. | ||
| Which is beatified. | ||
| Blessed on the way to sainthood. | ||
|
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Okay. | |
| That's still a pretty big deal, though. | ||
| Huge. | ||
| Particularly something, this is... Well, and I have to imagine this is one of the ones where... This is very controversial. | ||
| Your hierarchy of the Church probably fought against it, and only John Paul II. | ||
| Could get her in there. | ||
| Do you believe that she would have been beatified? | ||
| Her writings would have been this prominent if it wasn't known in church circles that it was the basis for a lot of what the Passion was based upon? | ||
| I keep in mind she was beatified in the same year that the Passion of the Christ came out. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| I rest my case. | ||
| Speaking of Fulton Sheen, Also beatified someone who, Francis, Pope Francis pulled, essentially pulled the plug on his canonization process, and they're still trying to figure out what went on. | ||
| So they're waiting. | ||
| I'm so shocked at that. | ||
| That, you know, we don't have, I'm trying to remember, but off the top of my head, I think we have maybe less than a dozen American saints. | ||
| Probably even less than that. | ||
| And for him to come out as a man who was the leading voice... The first was in the Philadelphia area. | ||
| Oh, you better believe St. | ||
| John Newman. | ||
| I don't know if actually, if you include... By the way, when we go back to Philadelphia, we go with my brother and we take the kids, we go to the lower church there where St. | ||
| John Newman actually is. | ||
|
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St. | |
| John Newman, and also Drexel, right? | ||
| I'm not including the American martyrs, which are all the priests that gave their lives for the conversion of the Indian tribes in the founding. | ||
| Many of those French, right? | ||
| French Jesuits. | ||
| And also, I mean, you have Spanish as well. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| I want to go back to Descent into Hell, the controversy of it, particularly in, there's a controversy in the 19th century, not just modernism, about did Christ go to suffer? | ||
| Did He actually go to Hell to bear suffering? | ||
| Or did He go in victory? | ||
| And the more traditionalists are, He went in victory. | ||
| to bring back the Old Testament prophets and also even people of renowned moral people from from paganism and then others that he went to suffer. | ||
| Jack Posobiec. | ||
| Well, so what it talks about here, and so Aquinas held, of course, to that it was the victory of Christ over Satan. | ||
| And this is something that Gibson wants to get into because he mentions in his interview that he may include in the new film, Passion of the Christ Resurrection, flashbacks to the War of Heaven. | ||
| So to the actual war, to St. | ||
| Michael, to all the way back to St. | ||
| Michael the Archangel, all the way back to the fall of Lucifer, the third that became the demons, the third that became, um, Mephistopheles, and Moloch, and all the rest, that to explain how this all got started, and to explain why Christ was going down to redeem All of the people that are waiting in, right? | ||
| That's where we, by the way, get the phrase, in limbo, right? | ||
| You're in limbo, or waiting. | ||
| We say that every day, the same way we use the word excruciating, but we don't even know why you say in limbo, because it was the church fathers, it was the men of the Old Testament, it was the prophets, it was the families, and the children, of course, who are waiting for Christ to come down and lead them out, to lead them out of the netherworld into heaven. | ||
| So this is where Aquinas gets you. | ||
| And this is where Blessed, right, corrected myself there, Blessed, Catherine Emmerich, picks up the story. | ||
| Because in her vision, and I've got the actual writing here, should I read it? | ||
| Yeah, sure. | ||
| Let's go for it. | ||
| So she talks about hell. | ||
| She explains her vision of hell. | ||
| She saw the Savior descend into the netherworld. | ||
| I saw the Savior approach toward the center of the abyss. | ||
| Hell seemed to me like an immense gloomy cavern, barely illuminated by a dull light, almost metallic. | ||
| Enormous black doors with incandescent locks and bolts, whales of horror rose up without ceasing from that frightful pit of which all of a sudden the doors collapsed. | ||
| Thus I was able to see a hard world of desolation and gloom. | ||
| While in heaven joy is savored and the Most High is adored in gardens rich in beautiful flowers and exquisite fruits, hell instead is a cavernous prison of sinking horrendous deserts and immeasurable lakes." She goes on explaining more about that, but then she says, The angels, the angels escorted Jesus through hell. | ||
| So he's marching in. | ||
| He's coming in. | ||
| They knocked down the infernal walls, and a storm rose up of curses, insults, shrieks, and laments. | ||
| Several angels elsewhere chased endless swarms of demons, those who would have then had to recognize and adore the Redeemer, because Christ has dominion over all of them. | ||
| This was their worst torment, the demons' worst torment. | ||
| Many of them became imprisoned in a sort of sphere which resulted in many concentric sectors. | ||
| At the center of the inferno was a dark pit sank where Lucifer was hurled in chains and who was immersed in dark angry vapors. | ||
| All of this occurred according to determined divine ministries. | ||
| Okay, but hang on, we're taking a break. | ||
| If you go back and read Katharine Emmerich's writings on the Passion, it's at this level of detail also, the Passion of the Christ, of which Mel was obviously inspired by her visions. | ||
|
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And this is much what the... There's one more line I want to throw in. | |
| Lucifer will be unchained 50 or 60 years before the year 2000 of Christ. | ||
|
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Catherine Ann Emmer. | |
| Okay, short break. | ||
| We've got Joe Allen on transhumanism, the new descent into hell, and of course the editor, senior editor at Human Events, Jack Pasovic. |
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