Jordan and Robert Evans dissect Alex Jones' legal collapse, detailing default judgments in Sandy Hook cases and the misidentification of Marcel Fontaine as the Parkland shooter. They analyze depositions revealing Owen Schroer's role as a puppet, Michael Zimmerman's ignorance regarding shooter websites, and Daria's disturbing claim that believing victims survived represents "optimism." With trials scheduled for April 25th in Texas and Connecticut, the hosts conclude that Jones' financial ruin is inevitable as he faces sanctions and bankruptcy amidst these overwhelming evidentiary failures. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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Trust Your Girlfriends00:02:38
This is an iHeart podcast.
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When a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist, they take matters into their own hands.
I vowed I will be his last target.
He is not going to get away with this.
He's going to get what he deserves.
We always say that.
Trust your girlfriends.
Listen to the girlfriends.
Trust me, babe.
On the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
I got you, I got you.
Hey, it's Nora Jones, and my podcast, Playing Along, is back with more of my favorite musicians.
Check out my newest episode with Josh Grobin.
You related to the Phantom at that point.
Yeah, I was definitely the Phantom in that.
That's so funny.
Share each day with me each night, each morning.
Listen to Nora Jones is playing along on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
What's up, everyone?
I'm Ego Mode.
My next guest, it's Will Farrell.
My dad gave me the best advice ever.
He goes, just give it a shot.
But if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit.
If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration.
It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat just hanging in there.
Yeah, it would not be.
Right, it wouldn't be that.
There's a lot of life.
Listen to Thanks Dad on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
In 2023, bachelor star Clayton Eckard was accused of fathering twins, but the pregnancy appeared to be a hoax.
You doctored this particular test twice, Miss Owens, correct?
I doctored the test once.
It took an army of internet detectives to uncover a disturbing pattern.
Two more men who'd been through the same thing.
Greg Gillespie and Michael Mancini.
My mind was blown.
I'm Stephanie Young.
This is Love Trapped.
Laura, Scottsdale Police.
As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences.
Listen to the Love Trapped podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Well, that's how you start a podcast.
That's how professionals start their professional podcasts.
That's their real big boy jobs.
Finding The Truth00:15:02
That's right.
Hey, everybody.
Welcome back to Knowledge Fight the Bastards.
I'm Jordan.
I am allegedly Robert Evans, but I'm very tired right now and making myself some coffee to get perked up.
What are we?
What are we?
Put a stardust man.
The big questions are what we're going to deal with today.
That's how you fucking cast a pod.
Welcome to the behind the bastard circle.
Listen, man, at the quantum level, we don't even know where our fucking electrons are, man.
What are you?
See, that's that.
Jordan, that's the title of a whole podcast right there.
Can I recommend to you Reset Wars?
It's going to blow your fucking mind.
It's the most important work someone's ever done.
So speaking of blown minds, I think Alex's mind has been blown lately by the idea that there are consequences occasionally for saying things.
That is true.
It can happen.
It appears to be in the process of happening.
He seems to be in the finding out portion of the fucking around.
And I guess that's what we're talking about today, is it not?
Mr. Dan.
Yeah, definitely.
And I would say, in terms of that, he got more than his share of fucking around.
He certainly did.
The ratio of finding out to fucking around is quite low.
It's astonishing, really.
Yeah.
I mean, we're yet to see what the damages are in the cases that he's lost.
But I mean, it could be a huge blow of finding out.
Sure.
But still, like, there's a lot of fucking around that didn't end up getting figured out.
It's hard not to argue that he really could believe for a long stretch of time that he could fuck around without ever having to find out.
Yeah.
And he could probably convince himself that he was a charmed, lucky person who is untouchable because basically nothing ever and he and he was.
That's a reasonable conclusion to come to until it really wasn't.
Well, I mean, it's really safe to be like Hillary Clinton is a demon and Soros and stuff because they're public figures and they're never going to take the time to respond to anything you say.
And who among us has not insisted that Hillary Clinton is a demon in some form or another?
I think two of the three of us probably.
Yeah, yeah.
You said that's in.
So, Robert, we're going to talk a little bit about the lawsuits today.
Yay!
This is exciting to me.
This is very exciting to me because this is so rarely.
I guess, I mean, there's the, you can view this in two ways.
One of them is that this is a rare case of a bastard actually getting their comeuppance, and it continues to be beautiful to watch unfold.
The less optimistic is to actually think about the raw amount of human effort that was necessary for Alex to kind of start to pay the price for the things he's been doing.
Like, because we're pretty early in the finding out period, although we are starting to hit the fun part of that, it's yeah.
And I think the other thing that's kind of like sour grapes about it is that, like, you know, he's going to find out, but it's not like he's going to learn his lesson.
No, it's not possible.
And everybody who listened to him and believed that he was saying something meaningful isn't going to find out along with him.
No, that's kind of the disappointing down-to-earth aspect of it.
And at the same time, though, I mean, there's it's inarguable.
I mean, you just had Gareth and Dave on from the dollop.
Yeah.
And I'm fairly certain that he said on your show, like, there's something very satisfying about seeing a career grifter finally get his comeuppance.
Yes.
And it's, it's impossible to argue that.
Yeah.
You know, it is nice when it happens this exactly the one time that it's happened.
Yeah, right.
There's that catch me if you can kind of like that spirit that we love of like, oh, he's going to get away with it.
But then also at a certain point, you go too far.
We got him.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So here we go.
Alex is getting sued in multiple cases stemming from his coverage of Sandy Hook in both Texas and Connecticut.
He recently settled a case where he was being sued over statements he made about Brennan Gilmore and the Unite the Right rally.
He's also facing still facing a case where he's being sued for misidentifying a person named Marcel Fontaine as the Parkland shooter.
He's lost all the Sandy Hook cases by default judgment.
And at this point, it's just a matter of the jury deciding how much he owes in damages.
It's just a money thing.
The Texas cases go to trial on April 25th.
And if I recall correctly, the Connecticut ones are set for, I think it's just one case in Connecticut.
It's set for this summer.
Yeah.
I'm not sure when Fontaine goes to trial, but Alex is absolutely going to lose that case.
No, for sure.
100%.
He definitely did the thing.
And he is not taking any of it seriously, which is a default judgment.
That's like, I mean, it's slightly more common than football games being called on account of unicorns, right?
Like, it doesn't happen all that often.
Barely.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's super rare, except for in cases where people are.
Isn't that why the Bills lost all those Super Bowls?
There's too many unicorns on the field.
Yeah.
One year.
Yeah, I think there were three in a row.
One was unicorns.
One was... Trolls.
Yeah, yeah.
That Tom Brady got elevated to the quarterback of the Patriots because Doug Floody was gored by a unicorn.
It was brutal.
It's dangerous.
Got on the business end.
If it weren't for unicorns, we wouldn't have to deal with that asshole.
So, yeah, Kip Daniels, the guy who wrote the initial story that identified Fontaine as the shooter, sat for a deposition.
And at many points, he testified things that will read very similarly to a confession in a courtroom setting.
So that one is...
That one's screwed for Alex.
There's no hope.
There's not much more you can say other than if somebody murdered a guy and you said in your deposition, yeah, he probably murdered that guy.
And Alex told me to.
Yeah, exactly.
It's not going to go well after that.
This is what most lawyers would call inadvised.
Yes.
Yeah.
I think one of the main misconceptions about the cases against Alex is that they're just about him asking questions about the Sandy Hook shooting, and that is just not the case.
There's a lot of things that need to be unpacked.
And the first is that the only reason that this case is able to be taken to court is because Owen Schroer made videos.
One of them was claiming that it was not possible for Neil Hesslin to have held his son after the shooting.
And Alex covered Owen's video on his own show, and they did this in 2017.
This was in response to Mr. Hesslin appearing in an interview with Megan Kelly discussing the conspiracy theories about his son's death, which obviously angered Infowars.
In concert with this, Erica Lafferty, whose mother was the principal of the school and died in the shooting, she made a public comment that Trump needed to publicly distance himself from Alex, someone who had traumatized her and many other families.
In response to both these things, Owen made videos attacking Heslin and Lafferty, which Alex re-aired.
Other things that Alex had said in like 2015, for example, those would be outside the statute of limitations, but this re-airing of the claims made them fair game.
It was a huge strategic error on Alex and Owen's part, but they've just gotten away with everything up to this point.
Like we talked about, fuck around all the time.
Yeah.
Why wouldn't it work?
The idea of a strategy is almost anathema to them.
So making a strategic error is something they feel is impossible to do.
The second thing that's important to make clear is that Alex and Infowars were not just asking questions.
They were promoting Wolfgang Halbig, who was actively harassing the family members of the victims of the shooting.
They were helping Halbig raise money to fund his activities.
They were painting victims, family members like Lenny Posner as enemies of the First Amendment and publicly airing the address where he received his mail.
They sent Dan Badondi, a reporter whose only talent is yelling and causing a scene, to Newtown along with Wolfgang Halbig, where they harassed people affected by the shooting.
Oh, yeah.
This is when you put it all together like that, it sounds like they were, you know, ghoulishly harassing the parents of murdered children.
But what you're not taking into account, Dan, is the content.
Uh-huh.
I take into account the content.
No, I think we've been so taking into account the content.
No, no, no.
Well, maybe we can talk about this on the next episode of my new show.
Robert Evans tracks down people who have lost loved ones in recent tragedies and heckles them from the street corner.
That's an interesting show.
That's an interesting show.
I am surprised the company's paying for it, let me tell you.
I think it did much.
In the room, the pitch didn't sound good.
I'm going to be honest.
There is a small chance you would be able to pull this off as satire.
That was the original pitch for H. John Benjamin's Dog Bites Man, I'm pretty sure.
It would be funny to like, well, I don't know, funny may be the wrong word, but like as a bit to make your thing be like create an Alex Jones conspiracy theory, but about like tuberculosis.
You'd be like, you didn't lose your mom to TB.
There's no such thing.
Jokes on you, Alex.
I saw a doctor in the woods trying to say that there's absolutely no way you're going to get out of this without.
Yeah.
Multiple times, Jordan has come up with like fake, dumb conspiracy ideas, and then lo and behold, Alex.
This is impossible.
He says them.
Yeah.
Okay.
So I think that there's just like this key distinction that needs to be made between what actually is going on and what they did and the whole idea that we were just asking questions because I think that that suckers a lot of people in who would be critical of Alex and Infor's actions if they understood the fuller picture of what they were engaged in.
So basically, we have a number of episodes.
It's a series we called Formulaic Objections because in the first one, Alex's lawyer keeps saying objection form.
Yeah, yeah.
And so he came up with the name that way.
But we have a bunch of those, and those are long-form deconstructions of the depositions themselves.
But I've brought some clips from these depositions that I thought would be particularly interesting or relevant to enjoy.
To be upfront, this is a very condensed version because we have roughly, I think, six formulaic objections and a total of at least 20 to 24 hours between those episodes.
Yeah, probably.
So if you're like, oh, they weren't as granular as they could have been, you're goddamn right we weren't.
The depositions themselves are like six hours long.
Exactly.
Seven hours long.
So yeah, I am going to jump in.
Are you prepared?
I am.
I am.
Well, that may be putting it a little strong, but yes.
So one of the things that happens throughout the depositions that Alex is in is he has claims that he's made repeated to him.
And the question, obviously, is, where did this come from?
Can you back this claim up?
And for someone like Alex, everything he says is right.
He's totally always right.
He studies, he researches things.
So this shouldn't be a real problem for him in a setting where it's like, you finally have your opportunity to prove things.
Under oath.
Yeah.
This is your moment, bro.
Yeah.
Exactly.
And consistently, he has no idea and nothing.
Like, he just has nothing.
Never heard of Sandy Hook.
So in this first clip I have here, it has to do with a claim that Alex made that Bloomberg had sent out an email just before the Sandy Hook shooting.
I think even the night before, he says, to all of his people to get ready because something big is going to happen and they need to get their gun control agenda squared away.
So here is a question about his source on that email.
Let's talk about that Bloomberg email that comes up.
This idea that there was an email sent the day before Sandy Hook saying, get ready, next 24 hours, there's going to be a big event.
That email, you've been asked for that email and you say you don't have it, right?
We were covering reports of the email that was sent out to the activist groups that had been in the news.
Where were you covering it?
What do you mean when you're covering it?
We were covering the reports of them activating their anti-gun rights organization.
Okay.
Well, see, here's the thing, Mr. Jones.
First, I thought there must be some email coincidentally sent on the day before Sandy Hook that Bloomberger's people sent that you must be willfully misinterpreting or something like that.
But the problem is, nobody who's looked at this has been able to find any evidence that such an email has ever existed.
And I want to know if you can explain it.
Well, I'm just not taking your assertion if that's the case.
Well, that's why I've asked you questions in Discovery.
And you haven't been able to produce that email to me, have you?
Well, you guys were asking if we have an email in our emails.
I was reporting on other news reports about an alert they put out to their group.
Right.
Could you find those reports if you wanted to?
Can you identify your source?
Well, I mean, A, you can hold back a source if you want to, but I remember being online.
I can try to go find that again.
What do you mean you can hold back a source if you want to?
What does that mean?
I mean, if I have a confidential source on something, I'm allowed to hold back the confidential source for their protection, but that's not what's happened with this case.
I remember the news articles about it that we reported on.
So you could find those, right?
I should be able to.
Okay.
So this was in his 2019 deposition.
Let's remember.
This is three years ago.
He has had plenty of time to find this email.
Yes.
And so here is him in the December 2021 deposition being asked about this again.
Do you remember we talked in that last deposition about the Bloomberg email where Bloomberg sent an email out to his people, said, get ready in the next 24 hours.
There's going to be a big event.
You remember that?
That was a news story, yeah.
Yeah, and then we talked about it for a while because you had brought that up to me.
You were like, look, I don't have the email itself.
That was something I was reporting on.
I had there was a story about it and I was reporting on it.
You remember that?
Uncovering Disturbing Patterns00:05:42
I do.
And then you remember you told me you could find it for me, right?
Yeah, I believe I said that.
And then you never gave it to me.
I'd be honest with you, Bankson.
You don't really inhabit much of my mind.
You don't have much respect for any of this process, do you?
None of it.
I don't think you have respect for America or anything.
Okay, that's an interesting.
That's an interesting move, Cotton.
Let's see how that plays for it.
Yeah.
You know, you got to lash out a little bit when you have been over years unable to produce the nonsense source that you have for this claim.
And I think that that's characteristic of a lot of the ways that they, you know, obviously the questioning is like, where did this stuff come from?
What were you working off of?
And it's just there's an inability to even like pretend that his reporting is based on anything.
Right.
Robert, do you have a favorite show or like a favorite episode of a favorite show that you can rewatch over and over and over again?
Oh, yeah.
I mean, for sure.
A bunch of them.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So for me, it's Cowboy Bebop, and there's this episode, Speak Like a Child, that's almost like dialogue-less, you know, and it's just this great soundtrack.
And I can watch it over and over and over again.
And I feel that way for the first time about a deposition.
Like, I can watch Alex get dismantled by Mark Bankston over and over and over again without ever getting bored.
You just don't get moments like these.
You don't.
Terrible people where it's just like all it's almost like he's almost like cosmic judgment.
It's like seeing somebody before an omnipotent judge that's just like, no, this is wrong and this is wrong and this is what you did, right?
And he just has to like, he's in front of fucking Anubis with scales.
Yeah, yeah.
It's something else.
It's pretty good.
It's pretty good.
Check out this fucking feather.
It weighs a million pounds and it's still not heavy enough, you piece of shit.
So you notice there how Alex, when he sort of backed into a corner, lashes out and he's like, you don't care about America.
He does that a bit in these deposition settings.
And when confronted about some of these ideas about Sandy Hook, one of the things he does in these depositions, I think is probably terribly advised, really bad decision, is to sort of imply that he still thinks Sandy Hook was fake.
Again, bold.
Second of all, Mr. Jones, you understand this jury is going to watch the videos of you saying unequivocally, not I see how people could think this, but unequivocally saying Sandy Hook is completely.
Oh, no, Mr. Jones, you don't get to interrupt me.
You understand that, sir?
You're here to answer questions for this jury.
And I want you to listen to the questions.
You know this jury is going to watch videos of you saying multiple times over and over again, Sandy Hook is completely fake, completely synthetic.
It is not real, right?
And you're going to sit here in this chair and say, oh, actually what I said, actually what I said is I could see how some other people could think it was fake.
You know the jury's going to see those videos and you know they're going to hear your words.
Do you think that they should take you seriously whatsoever when they can see you saying the things you said you didn't say?
I know.
Objection form.
Go ahead and ask.
I know that the jury is going to say, I always heard that people are innocent until proven guilty, not guilty until proven how guilty they choose, and that the system's actually scared for me to put on evidence.
The truth is deep down, I have still have real questions about Sandy Hook and a lot of the anomalies and the weird stuff that's going on and the CIA visiting Adam Lanza before it happened and the FBI that was in the mainstream news and just all the bizarreness that went on.
The public still has real questions just like they do about Jesse Smollett or the Roe v. Wade baby that never actually died or WMDs in Iraq or just the Gulf of Tonkin or Operation Northwoods or Bubba Wallace or so many of these things that have happened.
Most of these hate crimes and type things end up being false flags.
So I still, when I look at events, question it and say, could this, could this be staged?
And we look for telltale signs.
So yeah, his mind always retreats back to like hate crimes are fake.
Yeah.
That is kind of a safe harbor for him.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That, that, that, it is interesting to see him kind of go back to what he considers base, you know, like a kid playing a tag or something, but with, you know, yeah, like racism.
You know what else is like the game tag, but with racism?
No, that's not a good way to lead it.
Well, it's time for ads anyway.
So here's some fucking ads.
What's up, everyone?
I'm Ego Modem.
My next guest, you know, from Step Brothers, Anchorman, Saturday Night Live, and the Big Money Players Network, it's Will Farrell.
My dad gave me the best advice ever.
I went and had lunch with him one day, and I was like, and dad, I think I want to really give this a shot.
I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings.
I'm working my way up through and I know it's a place they come look for up and coming talent.
He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet.
Yeah.
He goes, but there's so much luck involved.
And he's like, just give it a shot.
He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit.
An Outsider With A Secret00:04:21
If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration.
It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat just hang in there.
Yeah, it would not be.
Right, it wouldn't be that.
There's a lot of luck.
Yeah.
Listen to Thanks Stad on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
In 2023, former bachelor star Clayton Eckard found himself at the center of a paternity scandal.
The family court hearings that followed revealed glaring inconsistencies in her story.
This began a years-long court battle to prove the truth.
You doctored this particular test twice, Miss Owens, correct?
I doctored the test once.
It took an army of internet detectives to crack the case.
I wanted people to be able to see what their tax dollars were being used for.
Sunlight's the greatest disinfectant.
They would uncover a disturbing pattern.
Two more men who'd been through the same thing.
Greg Gillespie and Michael Marancini.
My mind was blown.
I'm Stephanie Young.
This is Love Trap.
Laura, Scottsdale Police.
As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences.
Ladies and gentlemen, breaking news at Americopa County as Laura Owens has been indicted on fraud charges.
This isn't over until justice is served in Arizona.
Listen to Love Trapped Podcast on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
10-10 shots fired.
City Hall building.
A silver .40 caliber handgun was recovered at the scene.
From iHeart Podcasts and Best Case Studios, this is Rorschach, murder at City Hall.
How could this have happened in City Hall?
Somebody tell me that.
Jeffrey Hood did.
July 2003.
Councilman James E. Davis arrives at New York City Hall with a guest.
Both men are carrying concealed weapons.
And in less than 30 minutes, both of them will be dead.
Everybody in the chamber's ducks.
A shocking public murder.
I screamed, get down, get down.
Those are shots.
Those are shots.
Get down.
A charismatic politician.
You know, he just bent the rules all the time.
I still have a weapon.
And I could shoot you.
And an outsider with a secret.
He alleged he was a victim of flat down.
That may or may not have been political.
That may have been about sex.
Listen to Rorschach, murder at City Hall on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
There's two golden rules that any man should live by.
Rule one, never mess with a country girl.
If you play stupid games, you get stupid prizes.
And rule two, never mess with her friends either.
We always say, trust your girlfriends.
I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of The Girlfriends...
Oh my God, this is the same man.
A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist.
I felt like I got hit by a truck.
I thought, how could this happen to me?
The cops didn't seem to care.
So they take matters into their own hands.
I said, oh, hell no.
I vowed I will be his last target.
He's going to get what he deserves.
Listen to the girlfriends.
Trust me, babe.
On the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
We're back.
Indeed.
You're some fucking ass.
Hey, listen, Dick Wads.
Buy some shit or die.
Yeah.
Hey, motherfuckers, get a bed.
Buy a fucking mattress.
You already got a mattress.
I don't give a shit.
Put it somewhere.
Put it on the fucking floor and use it as a chair.
God damn it.
You fucking cowards.
If you have a mattress, I bet it didn't come in as small of a box as this one.
Just get really abusive, like, what is it, Dick's Last Resort, where the wedstaff gets to curse at you or whatever.
Buy Some Shit Or Die00:03:31
Yeah, isn't it Ed DeBevix?
Ed DeBevix is a Chicago one.
Oh, sorry.
I think every town has their version of that.
We had a couple friends.
In some places, it's just Waffle House.
Kid Rock.
Yeah.
That's a boxing ring.
So here is another clip of Alex retreating to basically just saying, like, Sandy Hook is probably actually fake.
Can you know, just admit that for the jury that you send them?
They're going to see the videos.
Can you tell me?
Well, they should investigate Sandy Hook themselves.
Objection four.
They should look into it themselves and see why people ask questions.
You hope they don't.
No, I really hope they don't.
That's not going to play well in a courtroom, I don't think.
Or if there were a juror.
I don't think, yeah, I don't think that's going to...
I don't think that's going to fly.
Dan, I just don't think that's going to do great for him.
All right.
Your Honor, I recognize that you have already found me guilty in a oddly specific circumstance that happens once 100 years.
However, have you considered that maybe all of you are wrong and I've been right the whole time?
Yeah.
I was in the room when he said that and I almost gasped.
It was very hard to hold in my like, oh, that's a bad idea.
That's why I was not invited.
Yeah.
So this next clip is actually a little bit longer because some of these deposition clips obviously are like questions and answers.
And so they can be a bit longer.
But I think that this is something that's kind of relevant and it's worth it.
And this is Mark, the attorney, asking Alex about an email that Wolfgang Halbig sent to a family member of one of the victims at Sandy Hook and Alex's response to it.
And then I'm going to go ahead and read this email to you.
It says, Nick and Laura Phelps did a great job acting in Newtown, on Newtown, Connecticut on December 14th, 2012.
I visited their home today at 1924 Westover Reserve Boulevard, Windmere, Florida, 34786.
And thanks to Lieutenant Van Gailey telling me during my wellness check of Nick and Laura Phelps that they no longer live in Newtown, Connecticut, and that they are now, and they are now, Richard and Jennifer Sexton.
Guess what?
He is totally right.
And can you believe it that my Newtown police department guided me in the right direction?
They have a beautiful home with a three-car garage.
They were not home today, but the good news was that the three adult female moms with their children standing outside their homes observed me and wanted to know what I was doing.
It was spring break.
It is spring break for Orange County, Florida school children.
I showed them this picture and I told them that I did not want to go to the wrong house to surprise Nick and Laura from Newtown, Connecticut, aka Richard and Jennifer Sexton today.
It took a few minutes for them to look at the pictures.
And then when they asked why I wanted to speak to them, I told them that I had been in Newtown and wanted to surprise them since they now live in Florida.
They asked for my name, which I gave them as Wolfgang Halbig.
They told me how I would knew them, and I told them that they have been on the national news, so I wanted to meet them again.
Our conversation was all about Newtown, Connecticut.
So she said, do you mind if I text her?
Investigating Shady Connections00:15:07
I said, absolutely not.
Waited about 10 minutes, only to learn that they did not know me, which surprised me.
They verified the pictures, and why would she text them about Newtown, Connecticut, and that someone from there wanted to visit if they were not Nick and Laura Phelps now, Richard and Jennifer Sexton?
At first, I did not want to enter since it is a gated community, but several people told me just go on in there.
There is no security guard at the gates.
If there is CCTV, they will see me being told to go in, and that is the only reason or I would not have entered.
Now, who says law enforcement does not know what they are doing?
And then on the back, you see there's a picture here, right?
Yes.
And at the top, it says Sandy Hook hoax actors, correct?
Yes.
And it has arrows pointing to the Phelps, right?
Yes.
And then at the bottom, it says playing the part of grief-stricken parents, correct?
Yes.
It was a horrible email, isn't it?
I've never seen this email, and it's...
Yes, I don't like this email.
And again, this is someone else, Wolfgang Halbig, after I'd already clearly knew that he cracked up.
And so that's not my work.
The next question that's asked is about how Alex did a video after this repeating Wolfgang Halbig's claims.
Yeah.
So yeah, that's some of the reality of what the people who were being promoted by Alex and Alex was helping them raise money for their activities.
These were the things that Wolfgang Halbig was doing.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it's tough to it's tough to listen to not this which because it's so long, but at the same time, like it is part of the length of it that is the torture as well of like, no, there's no way you can continue going on and everything he does is just another fucking shovel full of dirt in the grave of misery.
And it's just fucking awful.
Yeah, I mean, it's, it's literally like when you actually peel back and think about what's going on here, a crank is stalking people whose children were killed.
Hey, but at least he's getting paid for it.
Yeah, Alex is paying him because all he cares about is that it fills airtime, you know?
And maybe it'll get him talked about on the news, which brings in traffic.
Well, at very least, if Alex isn't paying him, he's promoting the organization that takes donations that Wolfgang is running.
So, you know, indirect payment.
Right, right, right, right.
Yeah, it's just disgusting.
But Alex at least has the kind of base intelligence of being able to be like, that sucks.
Yeah, okay, now even I, when listening to that, like, you almost want him to say, even I, you know, like, at least an admittance of like, listen, I don't believe shit, but this is bad.
You would expect me to be thrilled by that.
Yeah, exactly.
You would expect me to say this is great.
So one of the reasons that Alex ended up getting the default judgment was because he kept sending incompetent and unprepared people to be the corporate representative for the company.
He sent Rob Dew twice, and he couldn't answer any of the questions.
And then he sent Daria Karpova, who's one of his off-air talents at InfoWars.
And she was actually asked about this exact same email that we just heard.
And in contrast to Alex's response, here's what she thought of it.
That email doesn't creep you out?
You personally?
Objection form.
I mean, creeps me out the way you're reading it, yes.
Done creepy out to have Wolfgang Hobbig showing up at these people's houses and describing their three-car garage and all that stuff.
Accusing them of being people they're not actually are.
That doesn't have any, you know, how many strong feelings one way or another on that.
Traction form.
Correct?
Are you asking my personal opinion?
Yeah, your personal opinion.
Strikes me as a passion man who's doing an investigation, something he believes in his own heart and wants to get to the bottom of.
Thank you, Ms. Carpoza.
She's terrifying.
She scares me so much.
I've listened to that clip.
How many times have you played that for me?
Like four?
I don't know.
Yeah.
Once in the episode.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
She's terrifying.
It's bizarre to be able to hear those words.
Almost like, because in that email, Wolfgang's almost like relishing the telling of like, I was in their space.
Yeah.
It's sick.
Yeah.
And to hear like the response from Alex is the socially appropriate response.
And then from Daria, it's the rationalize super creepdom.
If you've ever seen a horror movie, one of those found footage horror movies where somebody has like that personal camera and they just continue looking at somebody while they're asleep.
And you're aware that nobody else knows about this.
And this is a first-person look that is terrifying.
And you can see Daria being like, well, I mean, it's just a good idea to keep an eye on them while they're asleep, right?
You know, you don't want them to have...
What if they have sleep apnea?
You might be in trouble.
And that's why you need to constantly videotape strangers' kids while they sleep.
Because what if they get hurt?
There's a lot to be said.
Look, you're joking about that, but I do support.
No, you know what?
That's not even a good.
Is that a good bit to start?
We don't need that bit.
We don't need that word.
Hedge services.
We don't need that bit.
You know who else watches you while you're asleep?
Well, yes, actually, some of our sponsors, but that is why people pay for them.
Listen.
Good.
So one of the things that is a hallmark of Alex's discussion about his lawsuits is that he did everything right, and he's just getting jammed up.
And it's a complete setup and a fraud.
And so this clip from his deposition is a really interesting glimpse into how he seems to not even be aware of how he didn't do anything he was asked to do.
You've repeatedly said that this, this court process, this lawsuit, what just happened, is all a sham because you turned everything over and that court still defaulted you anyway, right?
Yes, Owen Schroyer, you never sent him one deposition, one document request, one thing, and he was defaulted along with me.
And if that isn't fraud, then nothing is.
Okay, hold on.
I may have to pull this order for you.
Do you understand that in Mr. Neil Hessen's case, there was a court order requiring Owen Schroyer to appear for deposition?
Do you know that?
I know he appeared for deposition yesterday.
After yesterday.
You asked for it after the default.
Move on.
No, sir, Mr. Jones.
Do you understand that there was an order in August 31st, 2018?
EE asking Mr. Requiring Owen Schroyer to appear for deposition.
Did you know that?
I don't know what you're talking about.
Yeah, you didn't know that.
You got on your show without even knowing what the discovery was.
Yeah, so Alex is it's it's when confronted with reality doesn't even know the things he has failed to do.
Yeah.
It is a constant source of enjoyment for him to be like all right Alex, you know that this happened and he's like ah this happened like a few months ago.
I don't remember a goddamn bit of it.
It's just it's just amazing that a person can exist like this.
It's fun too to think at some point someday we will learn how much money he's spent on these lawyers.
I do believe that information will get out one of these days.
Probably.
Because they are, they're just not doing a thing for him.
Not that they could, not that he would listen, but he doesn't.
He's not getting his money's worth.
I'll say that much.
Well, conversely, I'd like to propose that possibly they're doing everything for him in terms of creating a pretense of like, I had incompetent lawyers.
I could have won these cases.
Yeah.
Like he has that to fall back on.
Although not trick is better when you don't repeatedly have the lawyers as guests on your show.
Well, right.
Barnes did have his own show for a little bit.
You can give one of them their own show, yes.
Well, one thing that we, I don't know if it's in a later clip.
Welcome insurance?
No, no, no, no.
Fuck Norm Pattis forever.
No, one thing later on is Bill will eventually say directly to Owen Schroyer.
He was like, hey, are you going to sue your lawyers after this?
Because look, I'm deposing you, and it's my advice that you sue your lawyers after this.
I don't think they have adequately prepared you for what they need to be doing.
What's even funnier about that is that the reason he's saying it is to remind them that should they win a lot of money from their lawyers, that money will be going to the Sandy Hook.
That would be considered an ass.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
We are going to take that as well.
Yeah.
Just so you know.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I don't think it's impossible that they could do a malpractice.
Yeah.
No, they've got a chance.
Yeah.
So one of the things that has been a hallmark of these cases that InfoWars has been subject to is that they don't seem to know what they're giving the lawyers in Discovery.
There was the child pornography that was in the stuff, the emails that they turned over to the Connecticut people.
And then in this case, there was something that is unexplainable that they turned over.
It's fair to say that Leonard Posner and Free Speech Systems have had an unfriendly relationship over the years.
No, I'm not.
I mean, I don't really follow what he does.
Shows about him.
So you do follow him, correct?
I mean, I never refreshed my memory.
So I will refresh your memory about what you know about Mr. Posner.
Let me show you about Mark 205.
Have you ever seen that before?
No, not that I remember.
What is it?
That's the sole document you produced to me just a couple, I guess, a month or two ago in regard to discovery requests for any documents you had regarding Mr. Posner.
That's the sole document that was in that folder labeled Posner.
That's it.
And that, you will agree with me, appears to be a very large, looks to be about 187-page comprehensive background report on Mr. Posner.
Correct?
Oh, I never ran a background report on Posner.
I've never even seen this.
I understand that you probably never even saw that.
Someone email us this and then we opened it.
I don't know, Mr. Jones.
You gave it to me.
What am I supposed to tell you about it?
I don't know.
You tell me.
I mean, I'm going to just go through the email.
Most of it even unopened and just send you guys everything.
This isn't an email, is it?
I would imagine you would never run a background thing on Posner.
All right.
Well, one thing we can agree on, because you look at the bottom of that document, it says FSSTX.085544, correct?
Yeah, that's the base numbers y'all use when you give me documents, right?
So this document right here came from Infowars Corporate Files.
I thought you said we haven't given you any documents.
I've said brother, you said we didn't get we were default.
We gave you nothing.
We didn't even respond.
You gave me documents in the Lewis case in responsive to documents.
Well, I mean, listen, I mean, I'm just telling you, I've never looked at this.
That's not what I'm asking you, Mr. Jones.
I've never got the news about somebody in Florida doing a background thing on him.
And so I figure somebody might have sent us this.
I'm just guessing.
I shouldn't guess.
I don't know.
Yeah, do you think you should be guessing?
No, I just said, you're right.
I don't know what this is.
So let's not do that anymore.
That is upsetting.
That's my favorite.
My favorite part of the deposition really has to just be like, you sent this to me.
I didn't come to you with a 187-page background check on Lenny Positor.
Where did this come from?
You tell me, man.
You tell me.
It's one of the creepier things that I think you find in these depositions is that Infowars turned over this extensive background check on one of the parents of one of the kids that died at Sandy Hook, and no one seems to know where it came from or why it's in their files.
Because it wasn't in an email.
No.
It was in their files.
No, it was in their files that they sent.
Yeah.
I can't stress enough how wild that is that you can be essentially being sued out of oblivion and then at the same time be like, we'll just send him everything and I'm not going to check.
Nobody was like, hey, this 187 page background check on Lenny Positor.
It's got like associates addresses and family members.
It's not going to play well.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That is really creepy.
Yeah.
You ever done a background report on anybody, Robert?
You have any enemies that you need to do background checks on?
I mean, I haven't done a background.
I have done background checks on my enemies, but not that kind of background check.
Podcast is essentially me doing that.
No, no.
That sounds tiring.
Yeah, your biggest background check so far has been Kissinger, obviously.
We finally nailed him to the wall.
We got him.
Yeah, it's the end of his career.
We did it.
Canceled.
It only took 90-ish years.
I feel like the jury was out until the podcast.
Thank God.
It finally tipped the balance for me.
It's like, I don't know if this guy has good news.
You know what?
I'm starting to think this guy might have some bad qualities.
Yeah.
So I just, I mean, it's something that I don't think is going to be solved by this case.
No matter what happens, I don't know if anyone will ever publicly know why they had that background check.
It is infuriating.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Who Controlled The Message00:07:04
Because who did it?
That is.
Yeah.
There's a lot of unanswered questions there.
You know, you would have to think that it was some sort of private investigator, right?
Probably some firm.
I mean, if it's 187 pages, it's not like he went to the FBI and was like, they've only bought it.
He's got an online thing, right?
Like he didn't just file for a criminal record.
Like somebody stalked a motherfucker.
So somebody one of Alex's bodyguards is ex-Blackwater.
They have some shady connections.
Yeah, no, totally.
But that does mean that there's somebody out there who put this background report together and could 100% just be like, hey, man, I'm the weirdo that did this shit.
You'd hope there'd be some kind of forensic fingerprint somewhere.
Or, I mean, I don't know.
Do we know if it's accurate?
Because, like, is it possible somebody just grifted Alex and wrote 180 pages of bullshit fucking Douglas Adams novel about Lenny Posner?
That would be something.
Yeah.
Let me do it.
I think Alex would fall for it, but that seems like a lot of effort.
Lenny Posner has never left his towel at home, though.
So there is that.
So I've got a little bit of Owen Schroyer's deposition to jump to.
He is involved in the case because he did a video where he was hosting the fourth hour, or not the fourth hour, he was hosting in Alex's place on a Sunday show, and someone gave him an article and some videos where he just decided, hey, we're going to report this as Neil Hesslin couldn't have held his child.
And one of the things that Owen is very clear about is like, someone gave me this news to cover.
I didn't check it or anything.
And this is a clip where Bill Ogden, the other attorney in the case, has to help Owen realize that he is a puppet.
I don't know who edited that video.
Right.
It could have been someone in our house.
It could have been someone else on the internet that they found.
Right.
You know what we can't agree on?
Nobody fact-checked it.
Nobody just said, oh, man, that's crazy.
When did he say this?
Google up the interview and watch it.
It's 20 minutes.
I didn't plan on covering the story that day, so I had no preconceived notion that I would even have to do that.
I know, Mr. Schroyer, you're here because you were a puppet.
You would agree with me, right?
No.
You don't agree with me that you...
You know what a puppet is, correct?
Yes.
A puppet is an object that is used to convey a message, but somebody else is actually controlling the message.
Do you understand that?
Yes.
Right.
You were conveying a message, right?
True?
Yes.
Somebody else was controlling that message.
True?
No.
No.
Who was controlling the message that you were putting out?
Were you in control?
What was the message you're referring to?
That the coroner said he never released the children ever.
Because that's the story you ran with.
Who is in control of that information if you weren't?
Because you already said you weren't in control of it.
Who was?
Somebody has to be.
Whoever originally posted the video.
Right.
So someone else had control and you were conveying the message.
We just established that you were the puppet that day.
There's nothing wrong with that.
I'm not trying to be derogatory.
It's analogous to where we are now.
You would agree.
I think if anybody is being used as a puppet, it would be the people who are reporting the stories, and I'm just showing that information.
You were reporting the story, Mr. Schroyer.
You were showing the information you were reporting.
If I cover, so if I just pick up anybody's news source and cover it, does that make me a puppet?
If you don't fact-check it, absolutely.
Okay, then.
I guess I'm a puppet of zero hedge in this case.
No, that's actually not true.
You're a puppet of iCoin Bank.
Okay.
So Owen's a puppet.
It's tough to have to look in the mirror like that to see that.
Yeah.
It is fun that we have Bill on the case just because you could definitely see a lot of lawyers being like, well, I'm just going to drop the puppet.
I mean, it's not like the puppet conversation adds a ton to the case, but Bill is like, listen, I am going to get you to say that you're a fucking puppet if it kills me.
And I'm going to win.
God, that's satisfying.
That just...
Num, nom, nom, nom, nom.
That just feels good.
Feels good to have in the world.
Well, someone who brands themselves as like the destroyer of cucks and such.
It's there's such, they're all such Owen, especially.
This is less the case with really Alex, but like Owen is very much cut in that right-wing like debate guy personality.
But none of them actually like debate.
All they know how to do is have, you know, they have media training.
They understand how things look on film and they understand how to get sound bites.
And they just kind of go out to surprise people and get sound bites.
And Owen can't edit this.
He can't cut it apart.
He can't end the interaction.
And he just gets revealed as the hollow man that he truly is.
And it's, it's, yeah.
And I think, I think that's what's so compelling, especially for me about these like these glimpses, these depositions that, you know, you get this side of these folks that they aren't in control of.
Yeah.
And it's a disaster.
Yeah.
Now listening to it gives you such a like Thanksgiving dinner feel where you don't even want to say anything.
You just want to like loosen your belt and lean back and be like, ah, I'm full.
That was a delicious meal.
I just got to eat there.
It's triptophan.
Now, you mentioned that Owen Schroyer's nickname is the cuck slayer.
You know what else slays cucks?
What's that?
The products and services that support this podcast.
What?
It's fine.
It's like a kink thing.
What's up, everyone?
I'm Ego Modem.
My next guest, you know, from Step Brothers, Anchorman, Saturday Night Live, and the Big Money Players Network.
It's Will Farrell.
My dad gave me the best advice ever.
I went and had lunch with him one day, and I was like, and dad, I think I want to really give this a shot.
I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings.
I'm working my way up through and I know it's a place they come look for up and coming talent.
He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet.
Yeah.
He goes, but there's so much luck involved.
And he's like, just give it a shot.
He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit.
If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration.
Luck And Talent In Hollywood00:03:25
It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat just hang in there.
Yeah, it would not be.
Right, it wouldn't be that.
There's a lot of luck.
Yeah.
Listen to Thanks Dad on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
In 2023, former bachelor star Clayton Eckard found himself at the center of a paternity scandal.
The family court hearings that followed revealed glaring inconsistencies in her story.
This began a years-long court battle to prove the truth.
You doctored this particular test twice, Miss Owens, correct?
I doctored the test once.
It took an army of internet detectives to crack the case.
I wanted people to be able to see what their tax dollars were being used for.
Sunlight's the greatest disinfectant.
They would uncover a disturbing pattern.
Two more men who'd been through the same thing.
Greg Gillespie and Michael Marancini.
My mind was blown.
I'm Stephanie Young.
This is Love Trap.
Laura, Scottsdale Police.
As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences.
Ladies and gentlemen, breaking news at Americopa County as Laura Owens has been indicted on fraud charges.
This isn't over until justice is served in Arizona.
Listen to the Love Trapped podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
10-10 shots five, city hall building.
A silver .40 caliber handgun was recovered at the scene.
From iHeart Podcasts and Best Case Studios, this is Rorschach, murder at City Hall.
How could this have happened in City Hall?
Somebody tell me that!
Jeffrey Hood did.
July 2003, Councilman James E. Davis arrives at New York City Hall with a guest.
Both men are carrying concealed weapons.
And in less than 30 minutes, both of them will be dead.
Everybody in the chamber's ducks.
A shocking public murder.
I screamed, get down, get down.
Those are shots.
Those are shots.
Get down.
A charismatic politician.
You know, he just bent the rules all the time, man.
I still have a weapon.
And I could shoot you.
And an outsider with a secret.
He alleged he was a victim of flat down.
That may or may not have been political.
That may have been about sex.
Listen to Rorschach, murder at City Hall on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
There's two golden rules that any man should live by.
Rule one, never mess with a country girl.
You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes.
And rule two, never mess with her friends either.
We always say, trust your girlfriends.
I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of The Girlfriends...
Oh my god, this is the same man.
A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist.
I felt like I got hit by a truck.
I thought, how could this happen to me?
The cops didn't seem to care.
So they take matters into their own hands.
I said, oh, hell no.
I vowed I will be his last target.
Testifying On Behalf Of A Company00:15:23
He's going to get what he deserves.
Listen to the girlfriends.
Trust me, babe.
On the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Ah, we're back and we're talking about cucks.
We have been, yes.
Are you?
They're not the fun kind that everybody enjoys from occasion to occasion, you know, like that.
What type is that?
I mean, you know, like sometimes that kind of sense of debasement can be a sexual pleasure that many people have.
Sure.
You know, like in a controlled environment to feel as though one is, you know, inferior can be a turn on for many people.
Okay.
Yeah.
This is not that good.
That's why Elon Musk stays on Twitter.
So we were talking about Owen Schroyer.
Yes.
Completely different kind of cuck to stroke.
For sure.
For sure.
So one of the things that's that's a lot of fun throughout these depositions is you get to witness people learning stuff about the company they work for and the people around them.
I think that sometimes this is fairly genuine, as is the case in this clip where Owen gets to learn about some people who might like mass shooters.
Michael Zimmerman, do you know who he is?
Yes.
Are you friends with him?
I would say we're friends, but I mean, we don't hang out or talk that often.
But you have a somewhat professional and personal.
If I saw him in public, I'd go say hello.
Sure.
Okay.
Does he seem like a good guy?
Yeah.
And I deposed him.
He came off very respectful.
He was shockingly nice.
For a white nationalist.
Would has he ever shared any of his opinions or views on mass shootings with you?
Not that I can recall.
Were you aware that...
Do you remember the Christchurch shooting?
New Zealand?
Yes.
Christchurch New Zealand shooting?
It was live streamed.
Yes.
Brandon Tarrant was the shooter.
He executed a bunch of Muslims at a mosque.
Yeah, you're pressuring the details of the event for me right now.
Do you know whether or not anyone at InfoWars claimed it was a false flag?
No, I'm unaware.
Okay.
Did you know that some individuals at InfoWars liked that shooting?
No.
Did you know you understand that Michael Zimmerman handles the IT stuff for InfoWars?
Traction 4.
I know that he was doing IT.
I'm not sure if that is still his role.
Did you know that on March 14th, 2019, Mr. Zimmerman registered the domain TarrantManifesto.com?
Oh boy.
No.
Did you know that he registered the website shooterchan.org?
Oh boy.
Did you know you know who Timothy Thrift is?
Yes.
Do you have a personal relationship with him?
Work acquaintance.
Okay.
Did you know that he registered the website saintternt.com?
Oh boy.
After the shooter Brandon Tarrant.
How do you feel about the people that you work with who you have somewhat of a personal relationship registering these type of websites immediately after a mass shooting that was live streamed to the world?
Pretty surprised.
I think that's a surprising thing.
I would be surprising.
Yeah, you really don't ever want to be asked in court, are you aware that your co-worker made the website shooter chan?
That is just not a question you want to get asked, really ever, but especially you want to be asked.
It makes the argument tougher when there's multiple people who are like, like making websites that are presumably about celebrating a mass shooter to argue that you're not engaged in some form of stochastic terrorism.
Hey, a bunch of your friends worked at Auschwitz.
How do you feel about that?
Did you know that they were...
Because maybe that would kind of suggest that you're also.
It's a bad thing to be surprised by.
Yeah.
Actually, maybe it's better to be surprised by it.
Yeah, if he was like, oh, yeah, of course I knew that.
I go there all the time.
My buddy.
I have an account on there.
I guess that'd be worse.
I think what's fun about that, though, is that exemplifies one of the things that is consistent throughout all of the InfoWars depositions is like a weird cageiness about 100% the wrong thing.
Like whether or not we're friends.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
They'll be like, you know, I don't know.
Is the sky blue today?
Like, you don't even know the answer to that.
Well, yeah, I killed those guys.
But like, is the sky.
And you're like, no, no, no, you're wrong, man.
Yep.
Yep.
So like I mentioned earlier, one of the reasons, the primary reason, one of the primary reasons that Alex ended up losing these cases by default was sending these people who couldn't handle being corporate representatives.
When they are sent as corporate representatives, they're supposed to testify as the company.
So there is a responsibility that they have to prepare, get all their business in order, and basic understanding of the case.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And they're supposed to.
I mean, they're given a list of topics that they're supposed to testify on on behalf of the company.
Things like, you know, personnel, who worked on this video, what are the sources for this video, those kinds of things.
Yeah.
And they have whiffed it every single time.
It has been a disaster.
Rob Dew, when he was in, it was funny because he was wearing a Kangle hat and he just seemed scared and confused.
I really, while you're asking me these questions, what I would like you to start with is treat me more like a fourth grader who doesn't know what business means.
Could you begin at the like, what is money?
See, he's a lot of fun, but unfortunately, there's not a lot of like things you can really pull from it that really exemplify his stupidity.
Yeah.
It's a real, oh, it's more of a totality.
Right, right.
That kind of exemplifies what he's doing.
Yeah.
However, Daria, when she was testifying as the corporate representative, I think there's a bit more stuff that sticks out as like, this is someone testifying on behalf of the company, and this is a mess.
Yeah.
So she had brought in a folder full of exhibits that she wanted to discuss in the course of the deposition.
And here is Mark bringing up the first one.
I've marked this as 1A.
You recognize that, correct?
Yes.
That's a document that you reviewed prior to this deposition, right?
Correct.
That is the Wikipedia entry for false flag, correct?
Yes.
Okay.
Can you tell me why you looked at this document?
Oh, boy.
I thought it would be a good idea to bring it as a reference to some of the points for topic number one.
If I could have the list of topics that would help me to identify the exhibits.
I understand what you're saying.
In fact, let's do that.
So, yeah, she brought a bunch of Wikipedia printouts.
That's good.
No, no, that's good.
That shows like a willingness to engage with the.
No, no, no, no, of course.
That's the beauty of it.
Just like with the background report, except for way funnier, is just like it's very funny because it's like, it's, it's both like incredibly, like, deeply irresponsible and also like something that your grandma might do.
Totally.
Like, I heard you had a big case today, honey.
I was looking some things up online and I decided to listen.
I wanted to support you in your skits.
I really wanted to.
But it's also it would fail a high school paper.
Oh, absolutely.
It sure would.
Yes.
So it's a bad look, and it was befuddling.
You have the printout of Wikipedia for a false flag.
Why did you bring this to me?
Is such a consistent question that all of the depositions have of like, you know, we asked you for specific things.
Yeah.
You could have brought those and we could have dealt with that.
Instead, you brought me a Wikipedia page.
So let's figure out why this makes you even more guilty than you were yesterday.
I am.
So Daria, as the company, was supposed to testify about these videos that are in the plaintiff's petition.
And it was pretty clear at the beginning of the deposition that she had not actually watched them.
But then later in the deposition, she appeared to have watched some of them.
And so this exchange happens.
You see, there it's talking about an April 22nd, 2017 video called Sandy Vampires Exposed.
Yes.
You understand that that is the video that Mr. Posner and Mrs. De La Rosa based their defamation claim on?
Did you know that?
Okay.
Did you know that?
When preparing for this depot, did you know that?
Yes.
Okay.
Did you watch that video?
I mean, unless you've watched it in the last couple hours, you haven't watched it, right?
For this deposition?
I'm familiar with the video.
Did you watch it in preparing for this deposition, though?
Yes, I believe so.
Okay.
When did you watch it?
Earlier today.
Earlier today.
Good.
So during the break, when it became apparent that you hadn't watched these videos, you went and tried to watch this video.
Yes.
You didn't watch the whole thing, though, did you?
No.
Yeah, right?
It's so lengthy video.
Yeah, so you didn't watch this video.
I'm trying to watch pieces of this video, correct?
Correct.
How many pieces did you watch?
How many minutes total did you watch of this video?
Did not count.
So this is the level of respect that the people who are the corporate representatives for InfoWars are showing the proceedings.
It's bad stuff.
Yeah.
That's...
I feel like I could have done a better job representing InfoWars.
Yes, 100%.
And I want the worst for them.
Yes, 100%.
No, your testimony would have been more effective at keeping them from receiving a default judgment of their own.
Just because of my basic sense of politeness.
Oh, no.
In total fairness, just for the sake of clarity, the Daria deposition was after the default judgment.
So this didn't contribute to that.
It did bring sanctions.
It is certainly evidence of why the default judgment happened.
Yes.
Yes.
And listening to it is a little bit, if you've ever had that friend who just lies about everything for no reason.
Not necessarily a friend, but like the person you knew.
I've met a guy like that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally.
And then just to see somebody have to like no longer can dissemble, no longer can lie, just eventually has to come down and say, fine.
I watched the video 10 minutes ago.
Yeah.
And I watched about five minutes of it.
Is that what you wanted to hear?
I could have said that at the first start, but you forced me.
During a bathroom break, I watched a little bit.
I had urine blasting out of me whilst I watched this fucking video.
Yeah.
Pretty grim.
Pretty grim.
So the last couple of clips that I have here from these depositions is the most upsetting thing I think I heard other than Wolfgang Halbig's emails.
Those are deeply, deeply disturbing.
But Daria, when she was giving her deposition, she's asked about Wolfgang Halbig had sent to InfoWars a picture of the Sandy Hook choir that sang at the Super Bowl that year.
And the argument was that the kids who were quote unquote killed at Sandy Hook were in the choir and it was like rubbing it in America's faces because it was a false flag and all this.
And so this got sent to InfoWars and then someone at InfoWars, I believe it might have been a Don Salazar, wrote back, thank you.
He thanked Wolfgang for this email.
And so this image becomes a little bit of a bizarre jumping off point for, again, Daria testifying on behalf of the company.
If somebody sent you this while you were doing reporting, you would thank them for it?
I don't know.
It depends on the circumstances.
Okay, well, the circumstances.
Wasn't there when Nico was having this exchange, what information he had at that time?
Well, I'm asking you, what if you had this information?
A picture that says at the top, 10 Sandy Hook children found alive and well, and then the Super Bowl choir in front of millions of people.
Would you look at that and go, man, I'm glad that you sent me that?
Personally, I would rather think that those kids were alive than having because the tragedy of kids being murdered for no reason,
the innocence of those children who didn't deserve that kind of fate, I would hold out hope to the last bit of my soul, hoping and praying that that picture was that that was something that be possible for those kids to be alive.
So is that how you would see that, Robert?
No.
No.
That's a weird call for her to make.
I mean, she must have just, that has to have been in the moment, right?
That's not calculated.
You would not calculate and arrive at that as like your decision.
Holding Out Hope For Kids00:03:34
Oh, no, totally.
I remember this clip, and the thing that I liken it to is like that John Ronson psychopath test story.
You know, it's like a psychopath goes to a funeral and meets somebody that they're romantically interested in.
And so in order to meet them again, they kill somebody else because they meet that person at funerals.
You know, like it's a very logical thought process, so long as you have absolutely no empathy or concept of other human beings being valuable.
Right.
Yeah.
How can something this fucked up actually be a good thing?
Yeah, absolutely.
And you're like, there's no way that a human being could react like that.
Yeah.
And hearing that, you'd think that, like, well, she's just saying that, and it's just going to be a she kind of sticks on that tip and stands by this, it seems.
So if you think about it, from your point of view, if you think about it, if the parents of my clients saw this picture, they should give them a lot of hope, right?
They should react really positively to this with a lot of hope inside, right?
Objection form.
Is that what you're saying?
I'm not those parents.
I'm looking at it as an outsider.
And I would much rather, and I don't know a person with a heart who'd rather think, who would rather believe that the kids are dead versus that the kids might be alive?
I would say it's reasonable for a person with a heart to have that sort of optimism as I'm sure Alex wanted to believe that those kids, if there was any possibility that the kids were not dead, that he was going to grab onto it because that's a much better proposition to have in your heart and mind than to realize that they weren't.
So, Alex Jones, according to how the company views things in terms of your Sandy Hook coverage, Alex Jones said the kids didn't really die and they were really alive in part because he has such a big heart and a lot of hope and optimism.
Objection form.
He's a dreamer.
Objection form.
He's not the only one.
Some have said Alex Jones is a dreamer.
Yeah, I found that to be the most disturbing thing in the, at least as an idea in the depositions, that saying that the kids weren't dead and that they were being paraded out to sing at the Super Bowl is an expression of love and optimism.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
That's disturbing.
That's pretty, pretty bleak.
I mean, wouldn't you really hope that Nagasaki was a false flag, right?
Like, don't you want to believe that no one would really drop a nuclear bomb on a city?
And so I think that's why it's a good idea to just deny that anybody died.
Yeah.
Why would you want to believe cancer is real?
Totally.
Yeah.
If it's a heresy.
Anyone with a heart would assume that all of medical science is lying about cancer in order to keep us in fear.
It is a pretty fascinating the thoughts that had to have occurred in her head to wind up saying those things.
Yeah.
Watching Those Connections Pop00:14:37
It would be amazing to be inside that little brain, just watching those connections pop together.
Could you not see yourself being held underwater by Daria and her being like, listen, I can't believe how good it is that I'm strangling you and drowning you to death right now because of how nice I am as a person.
Leaving Jordan's fantasies aside.
Sure.
Is that a fantasy?
Well, I did make a cuck reference earlier.
You did.
You did.
There is an element to it, too, that's added that is that, you know, someone had these thoughts, decided this was going to be the angle we're taking, doubled down on it.
And that also happens to be someone who's a higher up at InfoWars.
Yeah.
And they chose to be their corporate representative testifying for the company.
It's not like this is the first time she's had some kind of a messed up, weird thought.
Like it's, it's, it's wild.
The glimpse that you get through these depositions is just such a harrowing picture of people who are so disrespectful to the very idea that they did something wrong or the organization did something wrong.
And I think that they're a really valuable glimpse into that.
And what we're going to see in the near future is very likely some interesting developments over the course of the cases.
As they come to fruition, I think we'll see and some more information come out, I would assume.
Wow.
Well, boys, Robbie, men, I really feel like we've all transitioned.
It's always that coffee didn't work.
It's lovely to have you in the position where you're not usually in.
You know, when you finish your script, usually your guest is like, Jesus fucking Christ.
Did you know that we're on a show called Behind the Bastards and this guy's a real bad dude?
One of my favorite things to do to relax is to watch videos of people attempting to cut down trees and generally fucking up in a major way.
And usually these videos are like...
That's why sometimes a great notion is my favorite novel.
I don't understand that joke.
Oh, Ken Kesey.
Never mind.
Oh, okay.
I've only read.
Oh, wait, no, that's not Ken Kesey.
He's just in it.
Never mind.
I was thinking of Tom Wolf.
But I like watching these because you'll see like somebody making this chain of decisions where, okay, I have this very tall tree.
It's like 200 feet tall and it's right in front of my house.
I don't want to pay for someone.
I'm going to remove it on my own.
I'm going to winch myself up on top of it.
I'm going to have my kids hold onto ropes to try to pull it to the right side.
And I'm going to cut the area above me that my line is attached to.
And then everything goes wrong.
And they wind up impaling themselves on a chainsaw.
And I'm going to deep fry a frozen turkey at the same time.
At the same time.
It's like that.
It's just like this string of, wow, none of you, you didn't think through what the next step of this was going to be because you just kind of figured it would go away.
Because none of this, none of this feels in any way calculated.
It's too incompetent for that and it's going too badly for them for that.
It's just like they weren't aware.
It's like watching someone learn about gravity as they fall off a mountain.
Well, I mean, the incompetence is the manifestation of it, but there is a strategy, and that strategy is coming to an end now.
The strategy is the kicking the can down the road, appealing.
Delay, delay.
Yeah.
And so there was like a legal strategy that clearly was being employed.
I even saw it with Alex in the Connecticut deposition recently, where he pretended he was sick and couldn't go.
It's just an attempt to delay the inevitable.
And I really don't, I mean, that gravity analogy is good, except for there's this other part where it's like, sure, this is their first time learning about gravity because they've been jumping off a thousand-foot buildings for years and having no consequences for it.
You know, well, they're landing on their listeners.
Totally, totally.
So they've got this such a comfortable landing every time they fall so hard that they're like, why am I bouncing and bleeding on the sidewalk right now?
I've been bouncing, I've been flying the whole time, you know?
Yep.
Yep.
Woo.
Podcast over.
Everyone go home.
You guys want to plug your pluggables while we all sit and think about, well, what actually, first, Dan, what do you think is going to happen next?
Are they going to, are they going to lose all their money?
Yeah, I'm fairly confident it's going to, he's going to lose a lot.
I think it's going to be a few.
It seems like it couldn't be like a lot of times you get these things where it's like, oh, yeah, the bad guy lost a case.
And then it's like, oh, and they get a slap on the wrist.
Fine.
Like the Sacklers, where it's like, well, that's not going to hurt them in any way.
This doesn't feel like that.
I think that Alex isn't in great financial straits to begin with.
Like, I think he's, InfoWars is fairly precariously balanced on a ledge.
And then, yeah, I think he's going to get hit with a pretty, I mean, you have cases in Texas, Connecticut, the Fontaine case still being active.
There is a number of blows he's going to take.
And he's already, you know, squeezed his audience pretty hard in terms of what he's able to make that way.
I think I wouldn't be too surprised if he's asking to do a podcast on a network soon.
I will, and we'll be happy to have him.
I think there's no doubt that the goal is to bankrupt him so he can never do the show again.
Whether or not they succeed in that goal is up in the air.
But that does seem to be like, here's what we're going to shoot for.
And if we negotiate down from there, it's going to be fucking close, you know, of the sentence that would be just for him.
He'd be hooked up to a little buzzer that could deliver like a shock that didn't hurt, but like stopped him from whatever he was doing.
And then he would be forced to host a daily podcast on the show 90 Day Fiancé, where if he ever attempted to say anything that wasn't directly about the show, he'd get a little buzz.
So if he had to just actually watch, it doesn't matter what reality show, but every day he has to watch and comment on that show without talking about anything else, without getting into politics, without getting into the last theories.
Is he allowed to be racist about contestants and people on the show?
Because then he could do it.
No.
We're going to say no racist.
I've got a counter for you.
I've got a counter for you.
All right.
Two words, Wicker Man, three additional words, not the bees.
Not the bees.
Not the bees.
I always kind of fantasized about like a fitting punishment.
I would agree to this if the price was right.
But Alex continues doing his show, but he has to do it with me sitting at the desk.
Definitely, Alex.
Alex.
Nope.
Nope.
Got me to throw a flag on that play.
Yeah, yeah.
Basically, has to submit to me being like, no, no, And that would make InfoWars the first show to last more than 24 hours a day.
Yeah, probably.
We would have to go into leap time so you could properly do your job.
Well, now, you guys want to plug your pluggables before we run?
Oh, that's right.
We were going to do that.
We have a website.
We do.
It's knowledgefight.com.
We're also on Twitter.
We are on Twitter.
It's at Knowledge Underscore Fight.
Now go to Bed Jordan.
As is my want for the second episode of A Behind the Bastards.
Do you have another cake song?
I will admit that I did write a book.
It's at thequietpartloud.com.
You can find it.
It's free.
Yeah.
And you can find me nowhere because I exist only in the ethereal plane where thoughts and feelings and audio clips of Alex Jones being deposed.
Right.
There's Amitabha Buddha and then there's you.
Just serenely hovering over the knowledge sphere.
All right.
Bam.
Hey, America.
And to a lesser extent, Canada.
This is Robert and Dan from Knowledge Fight.
We have excised Jordan for his sins.
So we just had, we recorded this.
I think we say the date in episode one a while ago, right?
That's just the way bastards works.
It's, you know, there's a backlog that Dan graciously helped me extend.
But some shit has happened in the ensuing weeks.
It felt like this was something that was evergreen and you could just have it sit on a shelf.
Most of it is.
Yeah.
Just talking about Alex Jones and his dumb troubles, but it turns out curveballs.
Yeah.
So let's get into those curveballs because, I mean, obviously everything you've said about him is still accurate.
It's just that some new shit has happened vis-a-vis, particularly the court cases that have changed the landscape a little.
Since this episode has to particularly do with the legal stuff, it is a little embarrassing just to look back.
I remember that I think we said that Jordan and I were about to fly out to Austin for the trial right before we recorded the episode.
Tragic, which means you have not had good barbecue in a very long time.
That is true.
Chicago has good food, and some good barbecue, maybe.
Allegedly.
Yeah.
But yeah, I think it was like the day after or two days after we recorded it, Alex had his whole bankruptcy thing that ended up postponing the trial.
And so we never ended up going.
And since then, everything has just been a complete chaotic mess with the case.
So we could, honestly, we could do a whole nother episode about what's happened in the case since we recorded this episode.
I'm sure we will at some point, but we'll let it all shake out.
So, yeah.
As of mid-April, this is fairly accurate.
Yeah.
Well, cool.
Anything else?
Nope.
I just wanted to put that caveat on because otherwise I just would feel so self-conscious.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's okay.
I feel self-conscious all the time about things that I say and then other things happen.
But it's, it's, it's, you know, how could you can't be expected to predict the legal proceedings of Alexander and Rick Jones because they're, they, they, they, they do not proceed the way any reasonable person would want them to, right?
If you're just trying, if you're assuming Alex is a rational actor taking steps in his own self-interest, you'll be constantly surprised by how he handles his court cases.
Yeah, he has a warped sense of his own self-interests that just game theory refuses to calculate.
All right.
Well, we're going to return you to your previously scheduled episode already in progress.
And we are also going to unlock the shadow dimension where we've thrown Jordan while we record this.
For him, a thousand years has passed of unbelievable torment.
Anyway.
Behind the Bastards is a production of CoolZone Media.
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